I used punched flights, use Condor Axe now. The deflection issue I found was improved massively by fitting storm points (or whatever no lip points you prefer). Added benefit of Storm points is they make flights last longer by getting rid of the lip at the barrel.
Yup,choosing the right points also plays a huge role in canceling out deflections and flight wear and tear. Target´s storm range or just simply using Winmau´s Trident caps to get rid of the ridge in "normal" points massively improves all of that.
I'm a big fan of Condor Axe also. I just got tired of the flights popping off and having to pick them up.... yes... even the L-Style "Champagne Ring" ones....
@Gary Baker I never had that problem when I briefly used L-styles, what I did have an issue with was the flights tearing at the bottom and needing to be replaced almost as much as standard flights but for £7.50 a set
L-style with the champagne cap has been far and away the best system for me. The flights always hold shape and last quite a while. The $18 USD stems were pricey but I have literraly used the same 3 stems for 5-6 years now. 1 set of flights for about 4 nights of throwing and never once Robin Hood.
Used the punch for years, you still get robin hoods through the ring. Yes the flights don't come off but by FAR the best thing is the punch saves a fortune on stems. Being left with a three legged stem sucks. Haven't bought stems in years now.
one of the best things I've bought. Another negative though, the guide is no good for pear shaped which I use, so you've got to line it up by eye. Not sure if you can get them for pear shaped flights specifically but I haven't seen them.
I don’t understand why everyone isn’t using Condor axe flights. It’s a cheat code for pros and benefits people that suck like myself. The channel or groove in the stem forces the incoming dart into the tightest grouping imaginable. And isn’t that the point of darts? Why would anyone want to pick flights of the floor and get wide groupings? I’m not being arrogant. I’m genuinely looking for an answer. I can’t find a single downside to 1 piece systems and only upsides. I’m sure condor can make Edgar tv one piece condor axe flights.
I play the AK5/57 from Cuesoul, molded complete flight/stem systems (like the AXE/Zero Stress from Condor) for three years now and haven´t regretted it one second. Can only recommend everyone to drop the "normal" flight and stem setup. No hole punchers needed, no stem replacement because of Robin Hoods...
when I first started throwing I used folding flights and the punch. Honestly not a big fan of folding flights anymore. I have moved on to L-style flights for a few years now.. Way more durable. No more robin hoods.
I actually Robin Hooded a set of mine a couple of months ago, not into the stem, but right on the X of the flight. Luckily, due to the rigidness of the set up using the punch and ring, it didn't penetrate too far in and deform the flight.
I think the really big positive is price vs. molded flights. That said, it's 2023 so get with the times and get some molded flights. Re-point or use nose cones for sure. IMO, it's better to just stop worrying about flights and stems altogether with a molded system of your choice.
Like you, I don't use rings at all. I've found that a lot of the deflections actually comes from the point of the second/third dart, hitting the rings of the first/second. Yes, the stem is tightly closed, but the rings themselves, make a sharp ridge for your points to catch. Also, some ring/stems combos, make the dart a tiny bit longer, by not allowing the flight to go all the way in..
Yes, punched flights unless: The set up has aluminum stems, or one-piece integrated shaft and flight like Cuesoul Rost/Condor Axe, or L-Style set up (which are 2 piece but yeah…) I also don’t use punched flights when using pear shape flights or in my case oversized pear shape designed by Steve Beaton. Punched flights are incredible so long as you don’t rock any set ups that don’t allow for it, as listed above. dunununundnuh nuh Edgar TV
I'm genuinely surprised at the positive comments with punched flights. I tried punching flights and find them worthless/gimmicky. All shafts taper, so placing the ring provided or if you purchase titanium rings still never fully secure the flight. Ive had plenty pop off. If you carefully lift the flight up the punch so it punches lower, it helps but then you risk being off center. Fiddly and still not ideal. This has been my experience with them. Personally, the good poly stems with alu tops ie winmau vecta, mission sabre, red dragon nitro tech are the best if you use foldable flights imo.
Tried the punch and rings, but didn't like the aggressive deflections affecting the score. I've been using L Style with Champagne Caps and silent spinning shafts with no problems. More expensive but worth it especially because of the longer durability.
Hi Matt from Northern California... my flight punch coming in the mail from DartShopper along with many stem/ring combos. I am mostly a polycarbonate with aluminum top stem player. For my throw I'm normally a midi/tweenie length stem with Harrows Velo flight setup. I'll update this post in Jan/'24 on the outcome of punch/ring use.
Punch seems like a bit of a gimmick tbh, I find the best way to stop your flights from popping out & keeping their shape is to use aluminium shafts, they also last longer than plastic ones plus break a lot less often from robin hood's as most of the time you can bend it back into shape, I still use the same set of stems I bought back in 1994 & I've hit them more times that I could possibly remember...
As an American who's local leagues are nearly all soft tip, bounce outs are a regular occurrence, which leads to breaking shafts regularly. A lot of people here drop insane money on L-Style, FitFlight, or carbon shafts trying to avoid that, when they could save a ton by punching their cheap, foldable flights. Shafts break considerably less when the flight can provide a cushion on a bounce out. A $6 punch and some rings have saved me a ton of cash over the years!
I started using a flight punch since I got stems that wouldn't hold my flights longer than a couple of throws. Best couple of quid I've spent. What about specialty points for a video? Since I've used them I get less deflections and my flights last longer. Great video 👍🏼🎯
I started punching flights around 3 years ago after playing 8 years before, i found the flights keep popping off really affected my concentration because of keep stopping to replace them.
So I mean no disrespect, If 2 dart flight hit one another on the second dart, it would create friction on that side which would push the tip of the dart closer to the 2nd dart. In order to deflect the 2nd dart AWAY from the first, the barrel of the second dart would need to hit the first dart, in front of the center of gravity. Just think about it like touching the 2nd dart in flight what would happen when you tough each part of the dart and what would happen to the tip. Love your stuff Edgar!
I changed to punched flights about 10 months ago and found it didn’t help with my Robin hoods if anything i got more. The dart kept getting stuck in the ring so i switched to Robson spinning flights and no more Robin hoods. I have just recently switched to condor one piece and love it.
I use mostly condors and Robson plus flights, but the few sets that I have with normal flights are all punched. Day and night difference, I'm able to use the same flights and stems for a really long time
The only con I see with punched is they hold the flights alot more harder to take off need a bigger case that allows you to have your darts ready to go instead of building them up at every pub darts night or in competition
I wrecked a lot of stems, with the locked flights and rings i use a lot less stems now and still have the same amount of robin hoods. Never tested without again so i dont know about the deflection, it just saves me an awfull lot of money so i will keep using it. Also the flights staying on is a big plus.
Had someone in my league using a punch years ago and was well impressed with it.....but not at the price. Think it was made by Harrows and was priced (plus shipping to Ireland) about €40! Checked a few of the Chinese sites and got one for about €4 with a handful of rings thrown in. Ended up ordering quite a few of them for teammates and friends. Main downside I've found is that you can Robin Hood the actual ring which generally destroys it....and the punched hole with it. So a new flight and ring needed. But will never give up my cheapo Chinesium punch! As for your flights Matt. Bought a few sets when you released them. Third dart thrown, RHd the bloody flight and wrecked it. Been scared to use the flights again as they are cool and want to keep them as souvenirs.
Depends on the ring you use. From my experience, the Mission rings (not the titanium ones) break very easily, while the Winmau/Red Dragon rings are practically indestructible. When using the Winmau Prism Force stems, I wanted to change a flight, but I ended up throwing the entire flight and stem away because I had robin-hooded the stem ring so much that I couldn't get the flight off! I've also found that the cheap springs you can get on Darts Corner are quite resistant to robin hoods too.
When looking at any sort of darts equipment I tend to ask, do top class pros use such a thing? I don't know if any use flight punches. On top of that, the deflections are too extreme for me to use them. I can only recall a few that use the ever so gimmicky spinning flights that are so prevalent here in the US.
@@chrisreddy4815 I love my Stratos 23g darts . I replaced a stolen set even . Some paint , or whatever the coating is , has come off , but very little and I have had years of use out of them . I would like to try the Valhalla Winmau if and when I can afford them , with some Axe stems . Try your Stratos darts with longer stems before selling ....
No chance of that much of a difference. I might be 5 or 6 points better with "my" setup vs someone else's but nowhere near 10, and if I threw with someone else's setup for a couple of weeks I'd probably even out around the same. Dart makes little difference, it's the human on the end that throws it...
The cheapest punchers out there are about just 4$ and they're no less good at what they do compared to the branded expensive ones. Your friends might just want an excuse to visit you and I think that as a win.
I used punched flights for a long while and found the same benefits you mention great way to improve the stability for standard flights and stems, but following a fitting at Mission I moved over to the L-Style and like Jeremy I use that system with champagne caps in my case the all in one EZ L1, you have to g3et it right though because they're heavier than a Std flight it will change the balance of your dart so not for everyone where as punching flights is a definite improvement if you use standard type flights and stems
How can I purchase the shirt hanging to the right of your board with 501 on the lower front? Thank you in advance for getting back to me. Badlands, Dakota, USA.
I physically can’t put new flights on without using the punch, imo one the greatest things made.
Agreed, it feels wrong
I used punched flights, use Condor Axe now. The deflection issue I found was improved massively by fitting storm points (or whatever no lip points you prefer). Added benefit of Storm points is they make flights last longer by getting rid of the lip at the barrel.
Yup,choosing the right points also plays a huge role in canceling out deflections and flight wear and tear. Target´s storm range or just simply using Winmau´s Trident caps to get rid of the ridge in "normal" points massively improves all of that.
I'm a big fan of Condor Axe also. I just got tired of the flights popping off and having to pick them up.... yes... even the L-Style "Champagne Ring" ones....
@Gary Baker I never had that problem when I briefly used L-styles, what I did have an issue with was the flights tearing at the bottom and needing to be replaced almost as much as standard flights but for £7.50 a set
@@garypavey1528 Ha! I used exactly what your did and went to the Condor Axe as well. Cool
Used the flight punch for ages i find it very good dont have to pick flights up, but i do find robin hoods go into the spring so use more of them
Exactly! Robin Hoods into the rings, or big deflections FROM the rings.
Nitrotech stems hold my flights so good that I can't be bothered with flight punches anymore.
L-style with the champagne cap has been far and away the best system for me. The flights always hold shape and last quite a while. The $18 USD stems were pricey but I have literraly used the same 3 stems for 5-6 years now. 1 set of flights for about 4 nights of throwing and never once Robin Hood.
Used the punch for years, you still get robin hoods through the ring. Yes the flights don't come off but by FAR the best thing is the punch saves a fortune on stems. Being left with a three legged stem sucks. Haven't bought stems in years now.
Wouldnt use anything else, combined with flight protector best set up in my opinion, I usually have a few premade with me ( one as a beverage marker )
one of the best things I've bought. Another negative though, the guide is no good for pear shaped which I use, so you've got to line it up by eye. Not sure if you can get them for pear shaped flights specifically but I haven't seen them.
I don’t understand why everyone isn’t using Condor axe flights. It’s a cheat code for pros and benefits people that suck like myself. The channel or groove in the stem forces the incoming dart into the tightest grouping imaginable. And isn’t that the point of darts? Why would anyone want to pick flights of the floor and get wide groupings? I’m not being arrogant. I’m genuinely looking for an answer. I can’t find a single downside to 1 piece systems and only upsides. I’m sure condor can make Edgar tv one piece condor axe flights.
I play the AK5/57 from Cuesoul, molded complete flight/stem systems (like the AXE/Zero Stress from Condor) for three years now and haven´t regretted it one second. Can only recommend everyone to drop the "normal" flight and stem setup. No hole punchers needed, no stem replacement because of Robin Hoods...
I agree with what you said about holding the flights. but I do robin hood hitting the rings not the prongs.😎👍
Precisely
Oh Matthew🤦♂️, what's with the Mission flight puncher? Should be Loxley all the way🤭
when I first started throwing I used folding flights and the punch. Honestly not a big fan of folding flights anymore. I have moved on to L-style flights for a few years now.. Way more durable. No more robin hoods.
Do I have to remove the existing ring on my original shaft..?
Not a question, it's a great tool. Since I have one I use the cheapest stems.
I actually Robin Hooded a set of mine a couple of months ago, not into the stem, but right on the X of the flight. Luckily, due to the rigidness of the set up using the punch and ring, it didn't penetrate too far in and deform the flight.
Will these work with magnetic spin shaft heads?
I think the really big positive is price vs. molded flights. That said, it's 2023 so get with the times and get some molded flights. Re-point or use nose cones for sure. IMO, it's better to just stop worrying about flights and stems altogether with a molded system of your choice.
Like you, I don't use rings at all. I've found that a lot of the deflections actually comes from the point of the second/third dart, hitting the rings of the first/second. Yes, the stem is tightly closed, but the rings themselves, make a sharp ridge for your points to catch.
Also, some ring/stems combos, make the dart a tiny bit longer, by not allowing the flight to go all the way in..
Can you not use any ring as long as it fits in the punch hole?
Fit flights all day. Spinning shaft #5 😊
Yes, punched flights unless: The set up has aluminum stems, or one-piece integrated shaft and flight like Cuesoul Rost/Condor Axe, or L-Style set up (which are 2 piece but yeah…)
I also don’t use punched flights when using pear shape flights or in my case oversized pear shape designed by Steve Beaton.
Punched flights are incredible so long as you don’t rock any set ups that don’t allow for it, as listed above.
dunununundnuh nuh Edgar TV
I'm genuinely surprised at the positive comments with punched flights. I tried punching flights and find them worthless/gimmicky. All shafts taper, so placing the ring provided or if you purchase titanium rings still never fully secure the flight. Ive had plenty pop off. If you carefully lift the flight up the punch so it punches lower, it helps but then you risk being off center. Fiddly and still not ideal. This has been my experience with them. Personally, the good poly stems with alu tops ie winmau vecta, mission sabre, red dragon nitro tech are the best if you use foldable flights imo.
Tried the punch and rings, but didn't like the aggressive deflections affecting the score. I've been using L Style with Champagne Caps and silent spinning shafts with no problems. More expensive but worth it especially because of the longer durability.
Hi Matt from Northern California... my flight punch coming in the mail from DartShopper along with many stem/ring combos. I am mostly a polycarbonate with aluminum top stem player. For my throw I'm normally a midi/tweenie length stem with Harrows Velo flight setup. I'll update this post in Jan/'24 on the outcome of punch/ring use.
I use punched Power 150 micron flights, it's a great set up for me.
Punch seems like a bit of a gimmick tbh, I find the best way to stop your flights from popping out & keeping their shape is to use aluminium shafts, they also last longer than plastic ones plus break a lot less often from robin hood's as most of the time you can bend it back into shape, I still use the same set of stems I bought back in 1994 & I've hit them more times that I could possibly remember...
As an American who's local leagues are nearly all soft tip, bounce outs are a regular occurrence, which leads to breaking shafts regularly. A lot of people here drop insane money on L-Style, FitFlight, or carbon shafts trying to avoid that, when they could save a ton by punching their cheap, foldable flights. Shafts break considerably less when the flight can provide a cushion on a bounce out. A $6 punch and some rings have saved me a ton of cash over the years!
I used to punched flights. But I used condor axe now. Both great
I started using a flight punch since I got stems that wouldn't hold my flights longer than a couple of throws. Best couple of quid I've spent. What about specialty points for a video? Since I've used them I get less deflections and my flights last longer. Great video 👍🏼🎯
I started punching flights around 3 years ago after playing 8 years before, i found the flights keep popping off really affected my concentration because of keep stopping to replace them.
Anybody know where I can find a shell lock flight punch for the champagne flights everywhere I look it’s out of stock
I've used punched flights for the last few years. The down side is I get Robin hoods through the rings now.
I use my flights punch and had a deflection which was mad. I throw two t20 and the last dart deflectioned into the single 12
So I mean no disrespect, If 2 dart flight hit one another on the second dart, it would create friction on that side which would push the tip of the dart closer to the 2nd dart. In order to deflect the 2nd dart AWAY from the first, the barrel of the second dart would need to hit the first dart, in front of the center of gravity. Just think about it like touching the 2nd dart in flight what would happen when you tough each part of the dart and what would happen to the tip. Love your stuff Edgar!
I changed to punched flights about 10 months ago and found it didn’t help with my Robin hoods if anything i got more. The dart kept getting stuck in the ring so i switched to Robson spinning flights and no more Robin hoods. I have just recently switched to condor one piece and love it.
I use mostly condors and Robson plus flights, but the few sets that I have with normal flights are all punched. Day and night difference, I'm able to use the same flights and stems for a really long time
The only con I see with punched is they hold the flights alot more harder to take off need a bigger case that allows you to have your darts ready to go instead of building them up at every pub darts night or in competition
I use l style shell lock caps and punch have you tested these before or used them Edgar
Hello,
Where did you get your flights made?
I wrecked a lot of stems, with the locked flights and rings i use a lot less stems now and still have the same amount of robin hoods. Never tested without again so i dont know about the deflection, it just saves me an awfull lot of money so i will keep using it. Also the flights staying on is a big plus.
I use a small dot of blue tack on top of the stem holds unbelievably well and can dismantle and put back into your case :)
I can count on one hand the amount of times I had to pick up a flight from the floor. When you get older this is very important, haha
condor axe no problems. lifetime extreme
definitely cuts down on shafts and robin hoods
I got pro grip shafts and have punched ever since!
Like these videos
So do you use the rings at all ? Or just go with stems and flights , no ring?
I don’t use any rings personally
Had someone in my league using a punch years ago and was well impressed with it.....but not at the price. Think it was made by Harrows and was priced (plus shipping to Ireland) about €40! Checked a few of the Chinese sites and got one for about €4 with a handful of rings thrown in. Ended up ordering quite a few of them for teammates and friends.
Main downside I've found is that you can Robin Hood the actual ring which generally destroys it....and the punched hole with it. So a new flight and ring needed. But will never give up my cheapo Chinesium punch!
As for your flights Matt. Bought a few sets when you released them. Third dart thrown, RHd the bloody flight and wrecked it. Been scared to use the flights again as they are cool and want to keep them as souvenirs.
Depends on the ring you use. From my experience, the Mission rings (not the titanium ones) break very easily, while the Winmau/Red Dragon rings are practically indestructible. When using the Winmau Prism Force stems, I wanted to change a flight, but I ended up throwing the entire flight and stem away because I had robin-hooded the stem ring so much that I couldn't get the flight off!
I've also found that the cheap springs you can get on Darts Corner are quite resistant to robin hoods too.
@@matt_dobson0614 Me being me, I also bought cheapo rings 🤣
When looking at any sort of darts equipment I tend to ask, do top class pros use such a thing? I don't know if any use flight punches. On top of that, the deflections are too extreme for me to use them.
I can only recall a few that use the ever so gimmicky spinning flights that are so prevalent here in the US.
I think Johnny Clayton uses it.
I think MVG uses it
Loads of top players use punched flights. Michael Smith, MvG, Clayton, Aspinall, Gary Anderson, Joe Cullen all definitely do.
Question. Can buying a different set of darts bump up your average by 10 points? Or are you better off working on throwing techniques to go up 10???
Technique first then equipment to suit
@@chrisreddy4815 I love my Stratos 23g darts . I replaced a stolen set even . Some paint , or whatever the coating is , has come off , but very little and I have had years of use out of them . I would like to try the Valhalla Winmau if and when I can afford them , with some Axe stems . Try your Stratos darts with longer stems before selling ....
@@davidyendoll5903 yeah I'll give them longer. Sometimes expect instant results. Never gonna happen like that lol
Hate to break it to ya, but there's no shortcut to getting better.
No chance of that much of a difference. I might be 5 or 6 points better with "my" setup vs someone else's but nowhere near 10, and if I threw with someone else's setup for a couple of weeks I'd probably even out around the same. Dart makes little difference, it's the human on the end that throws it...
I have used my punch for a few years and I think it is great. All my dart crony friends come over to visit, but they just want to use my punch.
The cheapest punchers out there are about just 4$ and they're no less good at what they do compared to the branded expensive ones. Your friends might just want an excuse to visit you and I think that as a win.
@@fraker12 Lol, thank you. I am in Canada so more like 10 bucks, It is indeed a win.
I used punched flights for a long while and found the same benefits you mention great way to improve the stability for standard flights and stems, but following a fitting at Mission I moved over to the L-Style and like Jeremy I use that system with champagne caps in my case the all in one EZ L1, you have to g3et it right though because they're heavier than a Std flight it will change the balance of your dart so not for everyone where as punching flights is a definite improvement if you use standard type flights and stems
How can I purchase the shirt hanging to the right of your board with 501 on the lower front? Thank you in advance for getting back to me. Badlands, Dakota, USA.
Got one years ago and loved it...