Yes, following all the rules & making logical progressions is one thing but the genius is to also make it musical. That's Bach's genius. He just doesn't follow the rules but then again makes it an actual listenable piece of music & not just a contrapuntal exercise. Thank you for your tutorials because they inspire me & also make it quite clear & understandable as to the "mechanics:" of this all comes together.
@@DanielSilva-gc4xz I'm talking about specific branches of music education that exist now and have done for centuries. These rules that we have all learned, Bach breaks repeatedly.
"I composed several different exercises at different interval of imitation and time delays before choosing the best one to show you. And each one took several hours. Good luck."
I found this channel a couple of weeks ago, and started binge watching it immediately. I can hear the time and love that goes into this videos, so thank you for helping me get started as an aspiring composing, and see the cogs as an experienced musician.
Just found your channel Dr. G! I'm glad you're doing these high-quality lessons on some of the more complex topics in music theory. It's nice to see actual theorists discussing theory topics and not your run-of-the-mill "pop" theorists. Keep up the good work!
Next week, Jacob Gran tackles something easier: making 3-D crossword puzzles in Latin. 8-) To me, that last B note hangs for too long; it sounds better to me if it's played as two quarter notes instead of a half note.
That’s a good point. I was considering a version where the last quarter note of that measure is a C, anticipating the next downbeat and keeping the imitation going a little bit longer. I like both
Thank you very much for your kindness and generosity, Dr. Jacob! It really inspires me hope to see that a video with such high quality content is reaching so many people around the world. And thanks for the tip of pausing the video at 14:28! Stopped there and after I try solving it should get back to the video. Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷
@@JacobGran you're welcome 👍🙏 Do you recommend a specific counterpoint book? My teacher at University didn't use any, he actually dictated all the rules of species, strict, free and invertible counterpoint from memory!
Thank you so much for this lesson, Doctor Gran. You introduce the issue of differing time delays, which I think is so much of the ingredient of genius by such as Handel, that a mortal might go a lifetime & miss. Sean Reilly, Ireland.
Great content as always Jacob. Interestingly, in the Brahms example both imitations support two different tonal interpretations of the same E-D-C# cadential melodic cell. First as 4-3-2 in Bm, then as 2-8-7 in D, both relative keys to each other.
I am currently working on a set of canons with different numbers of voices at different intervals along with these melodic alterations: Retrograde Inversion Retrograde Inversion Augmentation I'm starting with a 2 voice Canon at the Unison and will end both the 2 voice and 3 voice sets with a Canon at the Octave. I'm wondering though whether I should have 8, 13, 15, or 25 canons in each of the 2 sets of interval canons. In case you are wondering how I got those numbers, here's how: 8: Diatonic intervals from Unison to Octave, not counting both lower and upper intervals 13: Chromatic intervals from Unison to Octave, again, not counting both lower and upper intervals 15: Diatonic intervals from Unison to Octave, counting the lower and upper intervals as separate intervals 25: Chromatic intervals from Unison to Octave, counting the lower and upper intervals as separate intervals. I mean, most people I have heard talking about interval canons talk about the diatonic intervals only. On the other hand, Richard Atkinson, one of my favorites when it comes to musical analysis has a set of 13 canons at chromatic intervals and I like his canons, they sort of blur the line between tonal and atonal. Like, it's clear that it starts in 1 key and ends in another key, but the musical sea between those points is blurry and has no clear modulation points as I have seen in other canons that start in 1 key and end in another key. ua-cam.com/video/57APZ4I5TPo/v-deo.html
I'm glad I found your channel! I wish I had access to it when I first studied species. Now I am going back and doing all of the exercises again, but now audiating everything I'm doing rather than treating it as a sudoku puzzle... Do you have any advice on how to audiate counterpoint better?
I've been trying to develop that skill myself, and I have to admit I am still not as proficient as I would like to be. The only good advice I have is to couple deliberate audiation with other areas of ear training (harmonic and melodic interval identification, scale degree identification, and sight singing) and to build up the skill slowly from first species counterpoint through the other species as you progress.
@@JacobGran Thanks for the advice! I'm taking some ear training lessons where I just do chord dictation once a week. My goal by the end of this semester is to be able to dictate a whole chorale-style chord progression in one hearing, with all four voices accurately notated. It's very hard, but I think I'm getting better! I'm also trying one very silly thing, which is to compose a species exercise while audiating, but play a totally unrelated piece in a different key in my headphones. It forces me to really listen with my inner ear, and I've found that after I do it, audiating under normal circumstances is much, much easier!
This video is great, and I look forward to exploring the others. I would describe that Corelli example at the start as canonic. Sure, the second voice ceases to imitate the first in bar 5, but until that point it has been an exact replica - a four-bar canon. Corelli then resumes the canonic writing after the cadence at the end of this excerpt. 'Imitation' is a very woolly term, and I _tend_ to associate it more with shorter fragments being exchanged, possibly with no overlap, rather than long stretches where two voices are out-of-phase, like a stretto fugal entry. Perhaps talk about 'strict' and 'free' canons, depending on how much the composer tweaks the lines to make the harmony work?
I agree that "imitation" is a fuzzy term and I think we are not so far apart on the question of the Corelli example. Marpurg defined imitation as, "the restatement of a subject through repetition or transposition in different parts," which is general enough to include all of the examples in this video. I chose not to call the Corelli example a canon because for me "canon" refers to a strict rule of imitation. The two violins follow such a canonic rule for the first phrase, and the second phrase is a transposition of the first into the key of B minor. After that, the voices continue imitating one another, but at different intervals and time delays. So the movement as a whole I would prefer to call imitative, rather than canonic, but the difference is very slight.
Hey Dr. Gran, I’ve been following your counterpoint lessons and really love them! I had a question. Bear in mind, in terms of music theory I’m almost entirely self taught outside of a semester of piano so I apologize if this is kind of a weird or silly question. When talking about 3rds 6ths etc, I was always under the impression that it was meant that the interval in question we care about in this context is say, If you wanted the third for C you just go up to the third note in the scale starting with C, so E. But in some of the species counterpoint where Fux or Mozart filled in their ideal response to the cantus firmus, I saw the occasional sharp or flat thrown in as well. Is there something I’m missing in my understanding or were Mozart and Fux just being a little jazzy, for lack of a better word?
Great question. Sharps and flats are used in counterpoint exercises for various reasons, most often in modal counterpoint. Most of my videos are focused on the tonal major/minor system, so accidentals are used there exactly as they would be in tonal music (usually that means just the leading tone, ^7 in minor and/or ^6, when cadencing). In major, we don't need any. In modes that have a whole step between ^7 and ^1 (Dorian, Aeolian, and Mixolydian), the leading tone is almost always raised with a sharp when the melody cadences. The only exception is Phrygian, since in Phrygian a raised ^7 (D-sharp) would create an augmented harmonic interval with ^2 at a cadence. That isn't a problem in free composition, when augmented sixth chords are used all of the time at Phrygian cadences. The only flat that is consistently used in modal counterpoint is B-flat in Dorian and Lydian. In both cases, they are used to make those modes more like minor and major, respectively, most often to avoid a tritone with the note F or to avoid melodically outlining that tritone.
@@JacobGran Awesome! Thanks for the help! I’m super fond of this kind of old art music. I’m originally a self taught guitar guy that got forced to listen to a bunch of Bach in piano class. Since then I’ve been obsessed with learning how to write that sort of thing. I’m super excited that you’ve gotten to imitative counterpoint because I’ve found almost no instructional Material for stuff like canon and fugue. As it turns out, most people aren’t trying to write that sort of thing. :P
Another great video as always, Mr. Gran! 😎 Your video made me wonder about a few things: 1. Can the "strict unison canon" (for the sake of the specificity) be related to the *echo* effect? I've understood that type of canon just like singing out loud at the Grand Canyon; the voice as _leader_ and the echoes as _followers._ 2. In your Brahms example, you've shown that even a 8th-note delay could be appointed as a canon. So, can the (in)famous *dotted-8th delay* (that echo effect which can be heard in many songs of U2 or Pink Floyd) be considered as a modern "strict unison micro-canon"? And could it be considered as polyphony in some cases?
I started composing last year on my own (barely had any theory classs during my school years but at leats I knew how to read sheet music hehe) and one of the first pieces I wrote is a 3-voice canon over a basso continuo similar to Pachebel's classic... let's just say that was probably a terrible idea, but I think I did okay ? Not so sure now that I've watched this video, loved it though ^^ Any chance you're doing quick reviews ?
24:45 Maybe I understood things wrong. But as I see this you could better use the notes g and d as half notes in measure 6 in the alto and d and a as half notes in measure 8 in the soprano. This woul mean a d minor chord with a fith in bass in measure 8, but as this is resolved by a tone step in the next measure, I feel it works.
I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was trying to make that option work and decided against it. It is definitely an improvement of measure 6, but I just couldn't buy into the 6/4 chord in measure 8. Of course I departed from strict counterpoint elsewhere in the exercise, but if I were to use a 6/4 position chord I would need to use it as a strictly prepared and resolved dissonant chord.
This is something I should have asked earlier but I forgot. In _The Tchaikovsky Counterpoint Exercises_ , you mentioned that Fux and Cherubini didn't offer actual advice on how to compose combined species counterpoint. Did Albrechtsberger mention something similar about combined species and tried to explain how to compose it?
Albrechtsberger does not address combined species. Albrechtsberger's book starts with coverage of thoroughbass before moving on to strict counterpoint, so many of the same "exotic" dissonant chords had already been covered by the time he finished the strict species. To the best of my knowledge, the first authors to lay out systematic advice (rather than just showing examples) were Prout in chapter 11 of Counterpoint: Strict and Free, and then Schenker in Kontrapunkt vol. II. Schenker did not cite Prout, whether out of ignorance or national pride, and their descriptions are quite different.
This is a great video indeed. Took me back 40 years... Just two remarks: The distance between soprano and alto in bar 4 is too large I think. In bar 8 you arrive at a unison by oblique motion, and it doesn't sound good at all.
Cantus firmus (CF) is Latin. It literally means "firm song," but it is best translated as the "given melody." In traditional counterpoint, the teacher gives the student the CF and the student needs to compose the counterpoint against it. You can learn more about it in my video "How to Compose 1:1 Counterpoint."
Hello, does anybody know of the recording Dr. Gran used in the example comparing a canon to an imitation at around 2:30? The Alto has just the most lovely voice and I’ve searched and searched but I can’t seem to find any information or the recording used!
I think I used this recording, where Hans Breitschopf was the boy Alto. archive.org/details/lp_requiem-k626_wolfgang-amadeus-mozart-hofmusikkapelle-wi/disc1/01.01.+Requiem+Aeternam+(Adagio)-+Kyrie+Eleison+(Allegro)%3B+Dies+Irae+(Allegro+Assai)%3B+Tuba+Mirum+(Andante)%3B+Rex+Tremendae+(Grave)%3B+Recordare+(Andante)%3B+Confutatis+(Andante).mp3
They are not consecutive 5ths, but hidden 5ths. Hidden 5ths happen when two voices arrive at a 5th through similar motion. They are only forbidden if the upper voice leaps. In this case, the bass stepped from A to G, while the alto leaped from F to D, thereby passing over E. It doesn't matter that we didn't actually hear an E. The mere fact that the E was touched by the alto, creates a virtual interval A-E, which forms parallel 5ths with G-D. It is, however, important to know that hidden 5ths were no longer considered forbidden after around 1700. Even Bach wrote lots of hidden 5ths.
In bars 9/10 there are two fifths between alto and bass, even they’re in contrary motion they are not allowed in three voices counterpoint, nor strict or free
The difference between a canon and a fugue is that in a canon the repeating theme always starts on the same note, while in a fugue it will be on the dominant of the key.
Also, a fugue has episodes between entries and the delay between the entries is not constant, and the entries don't usually overlap except in select places.
Row Row Row Your Boat is a round, which is a form of perpetual canon, which is the topic of the video I put out yesterday (ua-cam.com/video/Lgw09aSFTOg/v-deo.html). Very similar but different.
3:41 SPOILER: My guess below. Canon at the 7th with a quaver delay between treble and bass starting on the last semiquaver of b. 3. ending part-way through b. 7. There's a slight alteration in that the bass part isn't tied over in bb. 5-6; is that what you meant by "two very short imitative passages"?
Right. I thought of those as two different imitative passages, as explained in the video, but there is a case for hearing it as one longer, looser imitative phrase.
Si la musique est composée avec Dieu, l'inspiration et la technique, la musique est géniale. Mélangé la création avec les techniques du passé des grands compositeurs de la musique classique, l'inspiration tout zazimut de par l'univers du monde et Dieu en aide guidant sur la voie du chef d'oeuvre, l'oeuvre ne peut que plus être surnaturelle, mystique et magique emmenant dans un nouveau univers inconnu de toute beauté. Amen !!!
Franchement tu te donnes du mal, Jacob Gran. Tes vidéos sont bien. Cependant, ne compte pas sur les plate-formes pour te faire repérer et connaître. Fais une association avec un partenariat musical dans ton pays et trouve des mécènes pour un mécénat. Ce que tu fais c'est bien. Cependant tu perds ton temps. Car la musique classique n'attire pas beaucoup de gens comme moi et toi. Les gens sont plus dans la culture urbaine quel que soit le pays du monde entier. Fais un mix. Peut-être que cela fonctionnera. Cependant je ne suis pas sûr.
Since the revolutionary war, I haven't used my canon much. But this video definitely helped me.
Todays Autocannons just aren’t the same, so lifeless, no soul.
Lol
Yes, following all the rules & making logical progressions is one thing but the genius is to also make it musical. That's Bach's genius. He just doesn't follow the rules but then again makes it an actual listenable piece of music & not just a contrapuntal exercise. Thank you for your tutorials because they inspire me & also make it quite clear & understandable as to the "mechanics:" of this all comes together.
As my book says: it's not counterpoint if it's not musical
He also breaks the rules a lot but yes
@@sebastian-benedictflore he doesn't break the rules because he makes them.
@@DanielSilva-gc4xz I'm talking about specific branches of music education that exist now and have done for centuries. These rules that we have all learned, Bach breaks repeatedly.
@@sebastian-benedictflore Hence the portrait in which he sports an expression that is at once austere and mischievous
I'm currently taking a Musical Counterpoint class at university, and I found this very interesting. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Which country?
@@theshabs I am studying at Kennesaw State University in Georgia in the US.
@@musicalintentions very nice. I'm taking music in canada
@@theshabs One of my professors comes from Canada, though I don't know which city.
The fact that I missed the publication of this video is a friendly reminder to hit the notification bell.
"I composed several different exercises at different interval of imitation and time delays before choosing the best one to show you. And each one took several hours. Good luck."
Felt that
Honestly, this youtube channel is one of the best things I have come across!
Glad you like it!
I found this channel a couple of weeks ago, and started binge watching it immediately. I can hear the time and love that goes into this videos, so thank you for helping me get started as an aspiring composing, and see the cogs as an experienced musician.
I am glad to hear that! Thank you for the kind words.
Perfect mr. Jacob Gean, perfect.
Just found your channel Dr. G! I'm glad you're doing these high-quality lessons on some of the more complex topics in music theory. It's nice to see actual theorists discussing theory topics and not your run-of-the-mill "pop" theorists. Keep up the good work!
Hey Andrew! Thank you for the kind words; I hope you are doing well.
Next week, Jacob Gran tackles something easier: making 3-D crossword puzzles in Latin. 8-)
To me, that last B note hangs for too long; it sounds better to me if it's played as two quarter notes instead of a half note.
That’s a good point. I was considering a version where the last quarter note of that measure is a C, anticipating the next downbeat and keeping the imitation going a little bit longer. I like both
Thank you so much for this series, and I am very happy to see you are continuing to add new content! Thank you!!
You're welcome! I may be slow in putting out new stuff, but I do have a long-term plan of a complete counterpoint course.
Thank you very much for your kindness and generosity, Dr. Jacob! It really inspires me hope to see that a video with such high quality content is reaching so many people around the world.
And thanks for the tip of pausing the video at 14:28! Stopped there and after I try solving it should get back to the video. Greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷
Thank you for the kind words!
@@JacobGran you're welcome 👍🙏 Do you recommend a specific counterpoint book? My teacher at University didn't use any, he actually dictated all the rules of species, strict, free and invertible counterpoint from memory!
@@gabriellucena3176 I'm not Dr. Gran, but usually the gradus ad parnassum is what I hear about
This is perfect! Just what I was hoping to see.
Glad you liked it!
Your content is gold,thanks a lot Gran
i think i wasn't breathing... this was so suspenseful... but i was rooting for you the whole time... ✊🎵🎵
Thank you so much for this lesson, Doctor Gran. You introduce the issue of differing time delays, which I think is so much of the ingredient of genius by such as Handel, that a mortal might go a lifetime & miss. Sean Reilly, Ireland.
Love Cannons!! i used canonic writing in my string quartet!! great video!
Great content as always Jacob. Interestingly, in the Brahms example both imitations support two different tonal interpretations of the same E-D-C# cadential melodic cell. First as 4-3-2 in Bm, then as 2-8-7 in D, both relative keys to each other.
Amazing video! Thanks!
Can we have a "How to Compose a Sonata?"
I am currently working on a set of canons with different numbers of voices at different intervals along with these melodic alterations:
Retrograde
Inversion
Retrograde Inversion
Augmentation
I'm starting with a 2 voice Canon at the Unison and will end both the 2 voice and 3 voice sets with a Canon at the Octave.
I'm wondering though whether I should have 8, 13, 15, or 25 canons in each of the 2 sets of interval canons. In case you are wondering how I got those numbers, here's how:
8: Diatonic intervals from Unison to Octave, not counting both lower and upper intervals
13: Chromatic intervals from Unison to Octave, again, not counting both lower and upper intervals
15: Diatonic intervals from Unison to Octave, counting the lower and upper intervals as separate intervals
25: Chromatic intervals from Unison to Octave, counting the lower and upper intervals as separate intervals.
I mean, most people I have heard talking about interval canons talk about the diatonic intervals only. On the other hand, Richard Atkinson, one of my favorites when it comes to musical analysis has a set of 13 canons at chromatic intervals and I like his canons, they sort of blur the line between tonal and atonal. Like, it's clear that it starts in 1 key and ends in another key, but the musical sea between those points is blurry and has no clear modulation points as I have seen in other canons that start in 1 key and end in another key.
ua-cam.com/video/57APZ4I5TPo/v-deo.html
I'm glad I found your channel! I wish I had access to it when I first studied species. Now I am going back and doing all of the exercises again, but now audiating everything I'm doing rather than treating it as a sudoku puzzle... Do you have any advice on how to audiate counterpoint better?
I've been trying to develop that skill myself, and I have to admit I am still not as proficient as I would like to be. The only good advice I have is to couple deliberate audiation with other areas of ear training (harmonic and melodic interval identification, scale degree identification, and sight singing) and to build up the skill slowly from first species counterpoint through the other species as you progress.
@@JacobGran Thanks for the advice!
I'm taking some ear training lessons where I just do chord dictation once a week. My goal by the end of this semester is to be able to dictate a whole chorale-style chord progression in one hearing, with all four voices accurately notated. It's very hard, but I think I'm getting better!
I'm also trying one very silly thing, which is to compose a species exercise while audiating, but play a totally unrelated piece in a different key in my headphones. It forces me to really listen with my inner ear, and I've found that after I do it, audiating under normal circumstances is much, much easier!
4:37 Much like the opening prelude of the WTC!
You are referring to the hidden repetitions of 3-4-4-3?
@@JacobGran I was referring to the arpeggiated figures in the top line... also, great video!
I was hoping this was about a song with cannons firing in it, gotta love reading "cannon" when it clearly says "canon"
This video is great, and I look forward to exploring the others.
I would describe that Corelli example at the start as canonic. Sure, the second voice ceases to imitate the first in bar 5, but until that point it has been an exact replica - a four-bar canon. Corelli then resumes the canonic writing after the cadence at the end of this excerpt.
'Imitation' is a very woolly term, and I _tend_ to associate it more with shorter fragments being exchanged, possibly with no overlap, rather than long stretches where two voices are out-of-phase, like a stretto fugal entry. Perhaps talk about 'strict' and 'free' canons, depending on how much the composer tweaks the lines to make the harmony work?
I agree that "imitation" is a fuzzy term and I think we are not so far apart on the question of the Corelli example. Marpurg defined imitation as, "the restatement of a subject through repetition or transposition in different parts," which is general enough to include all of the examples in this video. I chose not to call the Corelli example a canon because for me "canon" refers to a strict rule of imitation. The two violins follow such a canonic rule for the first phrase, and the second phrase is a transposition of the first into the key of B minor. After that, the voices continue imitating one another, but at different intervals and time delays. So the movement as a whole I would prefer to call imitative, rather than canonic, but the difference is very slight.
He's back!
Maravilhoso!!!!!!! Que explicação fantástica.
Wish that you will post more about how to compose classical music
He's done an entire series about counterpoint.
Amazing keep going
Wow your videos are pretty good! Keep it up!
good work, Jacob!!
excellent cette video
Merci!
Thanks you 🙏🙏❤️
You're welcome!
Hey Dr. Gran, I’ve been following your counterpoint lessons and really love them! I had a question. Bear in mind, in terms of music theory I’m almost entirely self taught outside of a semester of piano so I apologize if this is kind of a weird or silly question. When talking about 3rds 6ths etc, I was always under the impression that it was meant that the interval in question we care about in this context is say, If you wanted the third for C you just go up to the third note in the scale starting with C, so E. But in some of the species counterpoint where Fux or Mozart filled in their ideal response to the cantus firmus, I saw the occasional sharp or flat thrown in as well. Is there something I’m missing in my understanding or were Mozart and Fux just being a little jazzy, for lack of a better word?
Great question. Sharps and flats are used in counterpoint exercises for various reasons, most often in modal counterpoint. Most of my videos are focused on the tonal major/minor system, so accidentals are used there exactly as they would be in tonal music (usually that means just the leading tone, ^7 in minor and/or ^6, when cadencing). In major, we don't need any.
In modes that have a whole step between ^7 and ^1 (Dorian, Aeolian, and Mixolydian), the leading tone is almost always raised with a sharp when the melody cadences. The only exception is Phrygian, since in Phrygian a raised ^7 (D-sharp) would create an augmented harmonic interval with ^2 at a cadence. That isn't a problem in free composition, when augmented sixth chords are used all of the time at Phrygian cadences. The only flat that is consistently used in modal counterpoint is B-flat in Dorian and Lydian. In both cases, they are used to make those modes more like minor and major, respectively, most often to avoid a tritone with the note F or to avoid melodically outlining that tritone.
@@JacobGran Awesome! Thanks for the help! I’m super fond of this kind of old art music. I’m originally a self taught guitar guy that got forced to listen to a bunch of Bach in piano class. Since then I’ve been obsessed with learning how to write that sort of thing. I’m super excited that you’ve gotten to imitative counterpoint because I’ve found almost no instructional Material for stuff like canon and fugue. As it turns out, most people aren’t trying to write that sort of thing. :P
Gracias por la traducción al español...
Another great video as always, Mr. Gran! 😎
Your video made me wonder about a few things:
1. Can the "strict unison canon" (for the sake of the specificity) be related to the *echo* effect? I've understood that type of canon just like singing out loud at the Grand Canyon; the voice as _leader_ and the echoes as _followers._
2. In your Brahms example, you've shown that even a 8th-note delay could be appointed as a canon. So, can the (in)famous *dotted-8th delay* (that echo effect which can be heard in many songs of U2 or Pink Floyd) be considered as a modern "strict unison micro-canon"? And could it be considered as polyphony in some cases?
I started composing last year on my own (barely had any theory classs during my school years but at leats I knew how to read sheet music hehe) and one of the first pieces I wrote is a 3-voice canon over a basso continuo similar to Pachebel's classic... let's just say that was probably a terrible idea, but I think I did okay ?
Not so sure now that I've watched this video, loved it though ^^
Any chance you're doing quick reviews ?
24:45 Maybe I understood things wrong. But as I see this you could better use the notes g and d as half notes in measure 6 in the alto and d and a as half notes in measure 8 in the soprano. This woul mean a d minor chord with a fith in bass in measure 8, but as this is resolved by a tone step in the next measure, I feel it works.
I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was trying to make that option work and decided against it. It is definitely an improvement of measure 6, but I just couldn't buy into the 6/4 chord in measure 8. Of course I departed from strict counterpoint elsewhere in the exercise, but if I were to use a 6/4 position chord I would need to use it as a strictly prepared and resolved dissonant chord.
This is something I should have asked earlier but I forgot. In _The Tchaikovsky Counterpoint Exercises_ , you mentioned that Fux and Cherubini didn't offer actual advice on how to compose combined species counterpoint. Did Albrechtsberger mention something similar about combined species and tried to explain how to compose it?
Albrechtsberger does not address combined species. Albrechtsberger's book starts with coverage of thoroughbass before moving on to strict counterpoint, so many of the same "exotic" dissonant chords had already been covered by the time he finished the strict species.
To the best of my knowledge, the first authors to lay out systematic advice (rather than just showing examples) were Prout in chapter 11 of Counterpoint: Strict and Free, and then Schenker in Kontrapunkt vol. II. Schenker did not cite Prout, whether out of ignorance or national pride, and their descriptions are quite different.
This is a great video indeed. Took me back 40 years...
Just two remarks:
The distance between soprano and alto in bar 4 is too large I think.
In bar 8 you arrive at a unison by oblique motion, and it doesn't sound good at all.
Gracias por los subtítulos!
De nada!
what is the cantos fearmos thing you keep saying. I just need a quick definition im a jazz player so don't know the terms
Cantus firmus (CF) is Latin. It literally means "firm song," but it is best translated as the "given melody." In traditional counterpoint, the teacher gives the student the CF and the student needs to compose the counterpoint against it. You can learn more about it in my video "How to Compose 1:1 Counterpoint."
I was expecting a video detailing how Tsaikovsky used cannons, but a interesting listen nonetheless
Hello, does anybody know of the recording Dr. Gran used in the example comparing a canon to an imitation at around 2:30? The Alto has just the most lovely voice and I’ve searched and searched but I can’t seem to find any information or the recording used!
I think I used this recording, where Hans Breitschopf was the boy Alto.
archive.org/details/lp_requiem-k626_wolfgang-amadeus-mozart-hofmusikkapelle-wi/disc1/01.01.+Requiem+Aeternam+(Adagio)-+Kyrie+Eleison+(Allegro)%3B+Dies+Irae+(Allegro+Assai)%3B+Tuba+Mirum+(Andante)%3B+Rex+Tremendae+(Grave)%3B+Recordare+(Andante)%3B+Confutatis+(Andante).mp3
@@JacobGran Thank you so much for the link! Your videos are of stellar quality too, so thank you for your excellent instruction and presentation.
did anyone else hear the first chord and instantly heard the opening of "don't talk" by the beach boys? same key and voicing and everything
That Bach notation though. Is that engraved? It's incredibly clear
I'm pretty sure that's manuscript and is thus some very neat handwriting.
Hello Jacob, do I have to learn invention before watching this video?
There is two consecutive 5te mesure 9-10 are you sure ?
They are not consecutive 5ths, but hidden 5ths.
Hidden 5ths happen when two voices arrive at a 5th through similar motion. They are only forbidden if the upper voice leaps.
In this case, the bass stepped from A to G, while the alto leaped from F to D, thereby passing over E. It doesn't matter that we didn't actually hear an E. The mere fact that the E was touched by the alto, creates a virtual interval A-E, which forms parallel 5ths with G-D.
It is, however, important to know that hidden 5ths were no longer considered forbidden after around 1700. Even Bach wrote lots of hidden 5ths.
Yes, there are two fifths between alto and bass, even they’re in contrary motion they are not allowed in three voices counterpoint, nor strict or free
Gracias.
In bars 9/10 there are two fifths between alto and bass, even they’re in contrary motion they are not allowed in three voices counterpoint, nor strict or free
Hello! You videos are very nicely done. May I ask if your graphics were done using After Effects?
Actually I put everything together in PowerPoint, and used Finale to make the music notation.
The difference between a canon and a fugue is that in a canon the repeating theme always starts on the same note, while in a fugue it will be on the dominant of the key.
Also, a fugue has episodes between entries and the delay between the entries is not constant, and the entries don't usually overlap except in select places.
isn't there mathematical equations we could use to make it faster?
Indeed there are, but I will cover that in a future video in the series when we return to the topic of canons without a Cantus firmus.
For some reason the 11th movement of Bach's Magnificat sounds to me more like this type of canon than a fugue
awsome
thanks a lot
Pause the video... It could be D, yes, it could only be D ... It must be D... Unpause. ... YEAH ITS F,*KING D!!! WOOHOO!!
Step One : Find your barrel
Step Two : Make a wood frame
Step Three : shoot
I like major seconds sometimes so maybe this can work
Alto: sol fa mi re
Soprano: re do_do_do
Incidentally, the name of that clever French chap is pronounced "Feh-teece" :-)
Oh my god! Now I have to remake all of these!!😵
So this is basically like row row row your boat?
Row Row Row Your Boat is a round, which is a form of perpetual canon, which is the topic of the video I put out yesterday (ua-cam.com/video/Lgw09aSFTOg/v-deo.html). Very similar but different.
3:41 SPOILER: My guess below.
Canon at the 7th with a quaver delay between treble and bass starting on the last semiquaver of b. 3. ending part-way through b. 7. There's a slight alteration in that the bass part isn't tied over in bb. 5-6; is that what you meant by "two very short imitative passages"?
Right. I thought of those as two different imitative passages, as explained in the video, but there is a case for hearing it as one longer, looser imitative phrase.
@@JacobGran Yep, I missed that the interval changed half-way through, so it does make sense to consider them separately. Sneaky Brahms!
Si la musique est composée avec Dieu, l'inspiration et la technique, la musique est géniale. Mélangé la création avec les techniques du passé des grands compositeurs de la musique classique, l'inspiration tout zazimut de par l'univers du monde et Dieu en aide guidant sur la voie du chef d'oeuvre, l'oeuvre ne peut que plus être surnaturelle, mystique et magique emmenant dans un nouveau univers inconnu de toute beauté. Amen !!!
My dumbass thought this was gonna be about Tchaikovsky putting cannons in his music and how to do it ourselves.
I came here to find out what a Canon is
“How to become Pachelbel in a bunch of steps”
Jist ask Tchaikovsky
It's really dux and commas.
Pie.
A. Corelli - Sonate da Chiesa Op.3 - No.7 in E Minor
ua-cam.com/video/wx9ZpOMdWZs/v-deo.html
Franchement tu te donnes du mal, Jacob Gran. Tes vidéos sont bien. Cependant, ne compte pas sur les plate-formes pour te faire repérer et connaître. Fais une association avec un partenariat musical dans ton pays et trouve des mécènes pour un mécénat. Ce que tu fais c'est bien. Cependant tu perds ton temps. Car la musique classique n'attire pas beaucoup de gens comme moi et toi. Les gens sont plus dans la culture urbaine quel que soit le pays du monde entier. Fais un mix. Peut-être que cela fonctionnera. Cependant je ne suis pas sûr.