thank you sensei. is this throw safe for the back? i am afraid of breaking my back, maybe the lower back because of tension on the vertebrae. this throw can hold less weight than a hip throw? pelvis doesnt strain but in this throw the back can do it, right?
Interesting question. This is one of those throws that, if done correctly, is fairly safe for the back. BUT, and it's a big "but", if you are off a little bit, you are exposed to a lot of risk. To be safe, you need to be very low and your legs strong. This allows you to get in deeply under uke and keep your back straight or even slightly curved forward--which protects it. If you get ANY arch in your back, uke's resistance can wrench your back badly. If you try to protect your back by NOT going low or deep, that can backfire and put you at more risk. I suspect this is why Judoka with back problems often avoid Seoi in randori or competition. Eventually, you'll make the mistake and get pulled backward. I've known a number of low Seoi specialists who got bad backs in their old age. The alternative is to do a high Seoi, keep the legs straighter, and haul them over with a lot of muscle. That requires more strength and is less efficient, but people make it work. I was never strong enough for that, so just went low.
the contact for the throw is shoulder blade to hip contact or is shoulder blade to chest contact? or maybe a shoulder blade to abdomen contact?. is this the same throw that is kata mawashi in the Ju no Kata? or is the ju no kata an unrealistic way of throwing someone while in practice and should not being considered while doing randori or "realistic" scenarios and it doesnt reveal the mechanics of the throw?
Trying to figure out how to explain. When I throw, I feel my upper back pressing against uke's body below his/her chest. It is not just my shoulder blade, but rather I feel contact across my back. The contact point is NOT my shoulder or just the shoulder blade, although when I throw right side, I might feel slightly more contact on the right side of my back. But it is important to turn all the way in so that you feel contact all the way across. Ju no Kata's Kata Mawashi refers to the entire movement, dealing with uke's arms, etc. We are told that the throw in this movement is Seoinage. In the range of normal Seoinage, the one in Kata Mawashi is certainly very high with the thrower directly in front of uke, making full upper back contact, as I described above. The way uke arches makes it clear that the contact point is what I described--full contact all the way across, with the thrower's back touching uke below the chest and all the way across. Ju no Kata shows an ideal way to do the throw. Obviously, in randori, things don't always go perfectly. But the ideal remains the ideal. I hope this helps.
Hey Steve, I've seen some versions of seoi nage which seems to use some element of the uki goshi mechanics - you sort of sling them over your shoulder like a backpack, and then let your weight shift to your offside leg to float them up onto their toes so that you can throw them over. Do you have anything to say about that?
I have no problem with this. I think people often use the names of the throws as sort of a short hand that we can all related to. "He did this Seoi..." Fine. I get it. But is it the pure original form of the Go Kyo? Not really. But isn't that sort of the idea. Through Go Kyo we are taught a wide range of dynamics we can use to throw, and through randori, we are taught how to draw on that to construct whatever we need to achieve our throw in the real, fast moving, highly random (ran) environment of randori. It's all good. But if you never learn the Go Kyo, you never have that base to draw on. And, of course, your "on the fly" construction may not be as efficient as the pure form, even if it works in the moment. In short, we all do this, and we all should do this. It's the plan!
Thanks for the video! hope to see the Ippon Seoi Nage upload too!
Many thanks, Steve.
Thank you 😊
thank you sensei. is this throw safe for the back? i am afraid of breaking my back, maybe the lower back because of tension on the vertebrae.
this throw can hold less weight than a hip throw? pelvis doesnt strain but in this throw the back can do it, right?
Interesting question. This is one of those throws that, if done correctly, is fairly safe for the back. BUT, and it's a big "but", if you are off a little bit, you are exposed to a lot of risk. To be safe, you need to be very low and your legs strong. This allows you to get in deeply under uke and keep your back straight or even slightly curved forward--which protects it. If you get ANY arch in your back, uke's resistance can wrench your back badly. If you try to protect your back by NOT going low or deep, that can backfire and put you at more risk. I suspect this is why Judoka with back problems often avoid Seoi in randori or competition. Eventually, you'll make the mistake and get pulled backward. I've known a number of low Seoi specialists who got bad backs in their old age. The alternative is to do a high Seoi, keep the legs straighter, and haul them over with a lot of muscle. That requires more strength and is less efficient, but people make it work. I was never strong enough for that, so just went low.
the contact for the throw is shoulder blade to hip contact or is shoulder blade to chest contact? or maybe a shoulder blade to abdomen contact?.
is this the same throw that is kata mawashi in the Ju no Kata? or is the ju no kata an unrealistic way of throwing someone while in practice and should not being considered while doing randori or "realistic" scenarios and it doesnt reveal the mechanics of the throw?
Trying to figure out how to explain. When I throw, I feel my upper back pressing against uke's body below his/her chest. It is not just my shoulder blade, but rather I feel contact across my back. The contact point is NOT my shoulder or just the shoulder blade, although when I throw right side, I might feel slightly more contact on the right side of my back. But it is important to turn all the way in so that you feel contact all the way across.
Ju no Kata's Kata Mawashi refers to the entire movement, dealing with uke's arms, etc. We are told that the throw in this movement is Seoinage. In the range of normal Seoinage, the one in Kata Mawashi is certainly very high with the thrower directly in front of uke, making full upper back contact, as I described above. The way uke arches makes it clear that the contact point is what I described--full contact all the way across, with the thrower's back touching uke below the chest and all the way across. Ju no Kata shows an ideal way to do the throw. Obviously, in randori, things don't always go perfectly. But the ideal remains the ideal.
I hope this helps.
@@stevecunningham8201 Thank you very much Steve Sensei.
Hey Steve, I've seen some versions of seoi nage which seems to use some element of the uki goshi mechanics - you sort of sling them over your shoulder like a backpack, and then let your weight shift to your offside leg to float them up onto their toes so that you can throw them over. Do you have anything to say about that?
I have no problem with this. I think people often use the names of the throws as sort of a short hand that we can all related to. "He did this Seoi..." Fine. I get it. But is it the pure original form of the Go Kyo? Not really. But isn't that sort of the idea. Through Go Kyo we are taught a wide range of dynamics we can use to throw, and through randori, we are taught how to draw on that to construct whatever we need to achieve our throw in the real, fast moving, highly random (ran) environment of randori. It's all good. But if you never learn the Go Kyo, you never have that base to draw on. And, of course, your "on the fly" construction may not be as efficient as the pure form, even if it works in the moment. In short, we all do this, and we all should do this. It's the plan!
When did you record this video ?
idk its part of a video tape he did
Yes, this was part of a video tape we did around 1998-2000 or so. That's why the recording quality is not up to current standards.