Thank you Bojan. I am Orthodox and had an ex orthodox friend introduce me to an evangelical church and all I heard was people saying speaking in tongues was proof of the Holy Spirit in a person. I didn't believe that at all.
As an evangelical Protestant of the Reformed variety, we believe that extatic utterances are NOT legitimate gifts of the Holy Ghost and the faithful are discouraged from engaging in such practices.
@PrenticeBoy1688 can you elaborate on the Bible verse that talks about the spirit praying with groans and utterances? This is what the pastors use to defend speaking in tongues.
@@nen3819 I would be happy to look into any specific references. Romans 8:26 is what comes to mind. In the translation I use, the Authorised Version, it says: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered'. The English Standard Version, the modern translation popular with my conservative Presbyterian friends says: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. In my particular jurisdiction, and in many of the conservative Presbyterian jurisdictions, and even amongst the Reformed Baptists, this is thought to refer to something that the Holy Ghost does to intercede for us, not something that Holy Ghost causes us to do. God knows what we ought to pray, even when we don't, and the Holy Ghost can intercede for us for things that defy human language. See Psalm 139 (138 in the East). The counterfeit gift of tongues is by definition utterable, so that would not seem to be what St. Paul has in view in this verse of his Epistle to the Romans. Elsewhere in the New Testament, the gift of tongues would seem to refer to an intelligible human language, or at least it's a language that could be heard and understood as human language. In the second chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, the tongues described here were intelligible to those who understood languages other than those spoken by the Apostles. In the First Epistle to the Corinthians, the first five verses of the fourteenth chapter, St. Paul says that the supernatural utterance of the gift of tongues should only be practiced in the church when another can interpret what's being uttered for the edification of the faithful. Analysis of the counterfeit gift, the peculiarities of which vary greatly from individual to individual, has revealed that the utterances bear no resemblance to any kind of language. They have no syntax, grammar, etc, etc. The phenomenon occurs in many of the world's religions, Hinduism being a notable example. The Mormons engaged in these utterances well before they would become popular amongst American Christians. This would seem to point to the phenomenon having its origins in the human spirit, or perhaps as Bojan suggested, in supernatural origins other than the Holy Ghost, which is problematic to put it mildly.
Lord have mercy. I'm a former pentecostal who still has the gift of tongues (see my comment). I love the gift of tongues, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat for whatever else better God has for me in Orthodox tradition.
One of my university professors did her PHD in charismatic leadership. She lived in America for 3 years to study different leaders and their followers. Whenever she was able to identify individuals who were the first to speak in tongues in a group she was able to ascertain that style/dialect spoken was the same for everyone else in that group. She studied first hand many such churches that were spread out across America. Conclusion: each group had its own dialect of “tongues” that was learned from whoever was the first to manifest said gift , through intense peer and psychological pressure of the group. At the very least it seems to be learned behavior.
This isn’t entirely true. I speak in tongues and it sounds nothing like my church because they didn’t “teach” us. You ask God if he can give you the gift to speak in tongues and after a while, you just did. It took two days for me to start speaking in tongues after I prayed for it. So we don’t sound the same at all. Some do, others don’t.
@@sweetxjc there is no point to it. The Holy Spirit seems to send mixed messages even changes his mind entirely through this gift. Who is right tongues and who is wrong tongues? No way to know. That’s how I know it’s not what was experienced in the Bible. Eg AOG was entirely against consumption of any type of at alcohol for any reason as revealed by the Holy Spirit to the AOG church; then suddenly the Holy Spirit changed his mind. Let alone the numerous pep talk tongues messages given at at given meeting with no point. It’s emotional high as Bojan points out and easily a humanistic experience . Humility is the sign of a Grace filled life.
@@markomarko494 I’m not trying to argue for tongues or change your mind. I’m just telling you my experience and it’s not like the one you’re describing. We don’t believe the gift of tongues sounds the same. At least not at my church or other Christians I’ve heard from who speak in tongues. We also don’t speak in tongues loudly at my church because of the fact that no one can interpret it and no everyone has the gift. It’s usually spoken quietly to ourselves, in the church, during worship. It’s something solely spoken to God through the Holy Spirit. It’s understood as the Holy Spirit praying for us, rather than us praying to God. As Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:2. So the Holy Spirit says the things that we don’t know about. You may be praying over a raging anger you have, but the Holy Spirit will pray to God asking that you forgive someone that is the root of the raging anger. That’s the belief. The Holy Spirit can prayer better for us. He knows what’s really going on inside us. That God may have not shown to us or has shown but we still don’t understand it because we might have closed off the Lord conviction. Also I no longer pray in tongues because I understand those in Orthodoxy don’t entirely understand it. And I would like to join an Orthodox Church. I don’t want to be a stumbling block to anyone or create tension that shouldn’t be there. I’m only explaining there is a mischaracterization of tongues and how it works in churches.
Glory to God you are inquiring to Orthodoxy. I do agree that our hearts being afflicted and tainted by sin affects our prayer, where we can have wrong intentions, pray insincerely, be demanding, fall into distractions, etc. And the Holy Spirit does work within us to help us be better at praying while also interceding Himself. But in Orthodoxy you may find that prayer to the saints is an answer to this dilemma - they are now perfected with Christ in heaven, so of course their prayers (a cloud of witnesses, and in Revelation they offer up incense with the prayers of the saints (Christians on earth)) are pure and untainted. So we ask them to pray for us, with us.
You don't speak in tongues... You think you do because you have been taught to and you expect it. It's entirely self deception. In most, it's blatant deception and fraud. The holy Spirit has more important things to do than inspire babbling... As well, evangelicals are not really Christian. Read up on church history... False prophets abound...and too many are proud to be deceived
i just can't get over how all 'speaking in tongues' means in terms of the aspostles is like they learned greek or arabic or latin or something and could spread the gospel to new people, but pentecostal take that and start making up words on the spot as if that's got anything to do with anything
I understood it like this: The apostles were speaking in the language they knew, but the listeners were able to hear them in their own mother tongue. This is a far cry from what Protestants claim to be speaking in tongues.
@@Player-re9moI've heard this gift was given to one of the orthodox saints in Mount Athos. I think it was Saint Porphyrios? He was an uneducated man who only spoke Greek and yet when he spoke to Spanish people and Germans, they understood him in their own languages. The Holy Spirit is truly the least appreciated Person of the Trinity.
When I was a Protestant (now Orthodox), I worked part-time as an IT staff at a mega church. When I was a Protestant, my church didn't do the speak-in-tongues thing, so I had never seen anyone directly doing it. So, on a Friday afternoon, there was a prayer gathering & all staffs were there sitting in circle & we all prayed. During the prayer, almost all staffs were like, "shalalalalalalalala" or "shamalamalama" like that. I was caught off-guard. It was the 1st time I actually saw people "speaking in tongues." Since then I wondered, what the heck was that & what triggered it psychologically. I asked them what did they say, they didn't know. I asked them why did they do it, all they could say was, "It's the holy spirit came into me." I was wondering like, "Isn't that like being possessed? Does that mean the Holy Spirit is like a ghost that will possess people & make people do things unconsciously?" This speak-in-tongues thing is so weird to me. Historically, as I've read, this trend is actually happened much later after the era of the Apostles & the Holy Fathers. It's something modern. The Bible never shows that speqking in tongues mean babbling something uncontrolably. All I found in the historical context of The Bible, is that it gives someone a new understanding that makes them able to speak out about Jesus Christ. I think the Apostle was able to speak other languages & understand what they were saying, was the real case of speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthiens 14.14-19 (NIV): 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. So Paul when Paul prays in a tongue, his mind is unfruitful. He would pray with understanding. Does that sound to you like he's praying in a language he knows? Then why is his mind unfruitful?
@@christophekeating21His mind is unfruitful because his prayer is not from imagination but From The spirit , but yet he Prays with understanding because he continuously Praises GOD Amen May GOD HELP YOU DEAR ONE
I would like to congratulate you, Bojane, on your ease and fluency in English- it is splendid; and yet I feel sure you did not learn it at a very young age (some peculiar English phonology wil probably always escape you) so this makes it doubly amazing. I understand that in order for you to share the good news it is good to have mastered this island's tongue so well. God bless you.
3:30 This is actually the reason why many Pentacostals who turn Catholic end up becoming Catholic in the first place. Passion is a powerful fuel, but it burns quickly unless replenished.
As an individual that converted to Orthodoxy I never took the speaking of tongues in heterodox serious after watching one Nicodemus the Hagiorite video on this topic.
I second the commenter who recommended Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, it spends a lot of time unpacking the history of the "charismatic" phenomenon and why it's of demonic origin I went to several prayer meetings in college and I felt like I "should" get into it but when everyone in the room seemed to be under some kind of mass hypnosis and doing strange things and saying nonsense I just felt disturbed. I felt very vindicated when I learned the truth. My instincts were telling me to run and they were right!
Like the researchers someone mentioned above, Fr. Seraphim presents some good data with bad conclusions. The opinion is growing within me, that Fr. Seraphim Rose is a false teacher. You can imagine how I feel about sharing this publicly, among Orthodox christians, but he says more wrong things than right things, as far as I can tell. Please, you members of the dogpile, don't attack me for speaking out according to my conscience, and I'm happy to listen and continue explaining what I mean, but I don't want to fight about it. Sorry for highjacking your comment, Coco.
@@joachim847 No worries, I think it's unwise to blindly fangirl/boy any figure in the church and it's always best to talk to your priest if you have questions. Online Orthodoxy can be very problematic imo
As someone who was part of the church of God denomination which is a Pentecostal church and someone who has went through the emotional high and started speaking things unknown to me, I agree with what you said. It seems as if the speaking in tongues gift was a gift meant for the Apostles to communicate the gospel in places foreign to them. Not only that but you also have the people laying hands and having people fall to the ground and shaking. Some strange things
I was also a part of the Pentecostal Church of God as you were. I've been there and done that. Not going back, I can't go back. Nothing against them, God bless those siblings in Christ. But I can't now that I'm studying God's Word and church history.
I don't trust Fr. Seraphim Rose. He died too young, and his writings contradict Orthodox tradition by adhering to our version of late scholasticism; i.e. the transmission directly from generation to generation, without actual reference to the fathers in their own context, without acknowledging biblical scholarship, the same way western school men added layer upon layer of cruft without permission to do any excavation into holy tradition. He may be a saint, and if so, his prayers are probably devoted to undoing the damage he did with his pen.
I grew up Pentecostal and converted to Orthodoxy. To answer your last question, we were taught that “tongues” was a heavenly language free from human corruption that goes directly to God. That is was the same “language” that the angels used when endlessly praising God at his throne. Take that how you will.
A layman of a church I visit on occasion, part of jurisdiction that does NOT recognise extatic utterances as a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, asked if he could pray for me as I had not been in good health. He finished off the intelligible portion of his prayer with nonsensical tongues. I took that as an invitation to conclude our prayer session with the Gloria Patri in Church Slavonic.
Genuine speaking in tongues may not be that rare. Although I attend the Romanian Orthodox church, my Romanian is not great and the sermons are very long (20 minutes is normal), I usually drift off. Occasionally, a section of the sermon breaks through with heavenly clarity and is truly illuminating. It is a powerful thing when it happens and I really think I was meant to hear what I heard. Then the priest wanders back to his endless anecdotes about his auntie and some misunderstanding over a watermelon and I lose the desire to listen. Something similar has happened in Serbia and my Serbian is far worse than my Romanian. I can just hear something over and above my linguistic ability.
I'm Romanian and from the church I've used to attend I remember an advice from my priest about priests, he alluded to the fact if a priest simply and only speaks personal stuff at the end of liturgy instead of having any proper tye in with the day/ liturgy itself is a waisted liturgy. I don't want you to judge, simply be careful
@@yamataichul I've found that some clergy - mainly Anglican, occasionally RC - talk too much about themselves and it can become an act of egoism or even self worship. I've been pleasantly surprised by the Orthodox liturgies at the Orthodox Church because the priests don't display this behaviour and they centre Christ instead.
here's a linguist's take on the tongues phenomenon- There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only one type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually, but not always, unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned). In contrast, the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, alliteration, assonance, and over-simplification of syllable structure. It is also interesting to note that any disallowed sound combinations, i.e. consonant clusters, in the speaker’s native language are also disallowed in his/her tongues-speech. Further, this subset of phonemes typically contains only those sounds which are easiest to produce physiologically. Occasionally some speakers will use two or more subsets of phonemes to generate glossolalia, producing what, to them, sounds like two (or more) distinct “tongues languages”, thus claiming to be able to speak in “divers tongues”. There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms. Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught. _Nowhere in the Bible is modern tongues-speech advocated or evidenced._ “Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
I'm not doubting or questioning the 'tongues experience'; glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound. As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any_ other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from. ‘Tongues’ (read, *‘languages’* ) - the divine gift, is the God given ability effortlessly learn to speak and be understood through real-language barriers. It is not xenoglossy, nor is it modern tongues-speech.
"an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way" True! As a former occultist/sorcerer I can vouch for this!
Thank you Brother for the expression of your thoughts on the speaking in tongues 😅 Could you elaborate on the baptism of the spirit? Please From a French Pentecostal brother. Be blessed in the Lord Jesus Christ 😊
Thanks for speaking on this subject. Many people don’t understand that most of the “tounges” experienced at charismatic prayer meetings and services is a “babble” of the subconscious. But it’s seldom an actual language.
I agree with you on that one, but one might easily say that chanting (especially with ison; drone), incense, repetition and dead foreign language in the liturgy also very intentionally leads the mind to elevated states of consciousness (highs). Not to even mention the Jesus prayer or rosary… if something is to induce ecstasy, it’s deep meditative repetition of a mantra (I know that Jesus prayer isn’t a mantra but a prayer to Christ, but the way which the fathers prescribe it, the actual practice, it’s just a mantra)
@@HolyOrthodoxy593 lol yeah you can tell yourself that, but the fact that a specific posture is recommended, that you ought to fix your spiritual eye at your heart, that you use the prayer to regulate your breath, that you should regulate your mind in a certain way (not looking at an icon, not imagining any visual thoughts, getting rid of thoughts, I.e. being in the state of hesychia)… yeah, totally not a technique… 🙄 What is it with Christians that they can’t see a prayer as BOTH a prayer of repentance AND a powerful technique to achieve some change in consciousness (which it so very clearly is?). Heck, even Kallistos Ware in his “Power of the Name” (or how is the tiny book called) calls the Prayer a technique. Seriously… just because it is a technique as well as a prayer doesn’t mean it’s pagan
In the Bible speaking in tounges means speaking in, you know, tounges. That is, languages other than that of the speaker. Leaving aside ceaseationism (If that's how you spell it) v continuationism, tounges were never incomprehensible.
What you said literally shocked me when you said that we shouldnt pray wether its "easy" or not because literally like an hour or 2 ago I got frustrated because I couldnt finish and concentrate on an Akathist.
Can you explain 1st Corinthians 14. It says he who speaks in tongues edifices himself but he who prophecies edifies the church. Please help! I edited because I found the answer actually on an orthodox website. I was even in a protestant bible college and no one could give me the answer. Turns out that there were in fact two tongues that Paul acknowledges in the New Testament one was in Acts at Pentecost which was the speaking of different languages, and the other one was later either in the book of Corinthians or Colossians I do not recall but it was in fact the language that we called gibberish. This is acknowledged on a Greek Orthodox website. It seems that some priests acknowledge this and some priests do not. I would love some clarification on this because I too am seeking Orthodoxy and learning
I still find the biblical passages about this confusing as an Orthodox. The Bible translations I’ve seen do seem to suggest even the speaker does not always know what they are saying and I’ve never really heard it explained what St. Paul was talking about.
Growing up in my teens in a non-denominational Charismatic church, the speaking in tongues thing did not make sense to me. A defence used by those doing it was that they were the 'tongues of angels ' mentioned in 1 Corinthians. In my university days, which was like a few years after having been in that movement, I was still confused. So I left. 😅 Yes, our emotions can actually trick us in our faith, and it is worse when we bring in alleged spiritual sources like God the Holy Spirit to attribute such experiences to Him when He does not work that way.
Yeah, St. Paul lists it last for a reason. Some of the saintliest people I know do not have the gift of tongues, some do have it. It's no guarantee of anything, but it can be good, if it's something God wants you to have. God bless you.
During the the brief time I spent in Reformed/Calvinistic circles, I learned that they take a dim view of speaking in tongues. They believe in what they call "cessationism", viz. the idea that once the Canon of Scripture was complete, glossolalia was no longer necessary for the communication of God's Word since they now had it in unambiguous written form. Of course, this hinges on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and with it the negation of Tradition so it would be problematic for the Orthodox to hold to this position. By the way, have you lost weight?
When that which is perfect has come, then what is provisional will be done away with. Jesus is "that which is perfect". Funny how the one cessationist proof-text is in 1 Cor 13, nestled snugly between chapters 12 and 14, which must be scrupulously ignored -- and for that matter, the obvious context of the verse in chapter 13 needs to be ignored -- in order for cessationism to "work". Holy gibberish is far more convincing than all that 😉
It's a mystery of the Holy Spirit. Those who can speak in tongues can't explain it well other than a powerful burning presence in their chests that compels them to start speaking. The human vessel isn't strong enough.
1 Corinthians 14.13-19 (KJV 1900): "13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." How can you read that and say it's only a tongue other people understand?
Here's St. Paul in context, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Cor 14:18). You can be Orthodox and practice glossolalia, just tell your pastor about it, do it in the presence of icons and other holy things. Don't do it out loud during the liturgy. Be prepared for God to take the gift away from you if it is harmful, because this is the experience of some (many ?) former pentecostal/charismatics. Others, God allows them to keep the gift of tongues. If you want the gift of tongues, I don't know what to tell you. The Orthodox church does not have a teaching on that gift (beyond what we find in the bible), though it is attested very rarely among the monks on Mt. Athos. What we have instead is the Jesus prayer, which is probably a more reliable path to the heart for most people. When educated hierarchs such as Met. Hilarion Alfeyev warn us about the charismatic movement, they are worried specifically about Orthodox christians leaving the faith for it. Lord have mercy 🙏
Once again, speaking in tongues is demonic, and it is a sign of demonic possession. One must immediately recite the Jesus prayer to cast the demons away.
@@kaiserwilhelmi7532 Yikes. If you want to continue thinking Orthodox priests never refer to themselves as pastors, don't ask any American priests. The title of priest refers to their liturgical function, but they can also be pastors, confessors, even spiritual fathers.
@@joachim847 I am saying that we do not commonly, or really at all refer to them as pastors. Ask any Orthodox Christian, and you will find they call their Priest "Father".
Tongues is/was an evangelistic tool to testify to the nations. Many of the apostles were fishermen, not scholars. They didn’t all just know Greek or Latin or whatever, but because of the Holy Spirit, they were able to proclaim the gospel to the nations. I don’t understand how Pentecostals read babel into tongues. Good Video Bojan.
I felt that the ‘speaking in tongues’ thing was best handled in the Borat movie 😅. But seriously. It’s babbling. Babel. There is a Tower that caused some real issues with that. Appreciate the content and agree. God bless.
Orthodox Christians most definitely believe in praying in Tongues.... They do it privately unlike Pentacostals who will do it out in the open while worshipping God. Please read your Holy Bible as Paul lays it out plainly 1 Corinthians 14:17-20, Paul addresses the issue of speaking in tongues within the Corinthian church: 17. For you, if you pray in a tongue, no one understands you, for you are speaking mysteries to God. But no one else is edified. 18. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you, 19. but in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding so that I may teach others, than ten thousand words in a tongue. 20. Brothers, don't be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.
I understand people make it up, but at the same time I know Orthodox Priest who do speak in tongues or what St Paul called praying 'Mysteries unto God'. We are not the divine scissors that cut out what we don't like and keep what we do like or reduce it into the realm of natural ability. The foundation of all tradition is scripture, thus it is nearly impossible to take tongues and reduce it to a learned language. Unfortunately the Orthodox church has many Calvinist that come into the church and bring in bits of Reformed theology with them. The church fathers did not even deny such a gift or even tongues and interpretation! They just simply did not. Some fathers gave witness this was going on in the early 2nd century. Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all of them at Corinth. However this should not be the main focus. At the same time it is not proper to just have philosophy without the mystical gifts of the Spirit. This is why the Pentecostals/Charismatics are growing at such a numerous rate. The gifts of the Spirit all of them are in the scriptures and the ancient Fathers of the church. Let us not become the monks that jumped out the window when St Symeon the New Theologian began to speak. If anything the giftings within the context of Orthodoxy should be much greater and more manifest within it's gates than the Denominations outside of it. True Orthodoxy when living out your Baptism and Chrism SHOULD be Charismatic in practice. If it is not the only thing that will be available is dead philosophy. TO even hear people make comments reducing 'Tongues' to off the rocker fringe groups is madness. How can we assume this was not Orthodox first and stolen from us? Many Orthodox historians grieve what happened as a reaction to the Montanist in 251AD. Lord have mercy we should not assume we are experts when these things were clearly supernatural and available to all. We carry within us and upon us the energies of God. That can manifest itself in the gits of the Spirit being manifested to those around us. Why should we not pray for the sick if we feel His energies moving in us? ( I am speaking for when outside the church). We need Him and the world needs His workings. We have a treasury that is being plundered because we reject the fulness of what is available.
It's important to make clear what speaking in tongues actually means in the first place. If a person speaks in their mother tongue and someone with a different language understands them completely, that's speaking in tongues. What Protestants view as speaking in tongues is nonsensical blabbering.
@@Player-re9mo People keep saying that, and I honestly don't understand how you come to that conclusion. (Unless you haven't read the relevant new testament passages, cough cough.)
Glad you just took your big spiritual scissors to 1 Corinthians 14:2. I guess a large number of Pharisees claiming 'Beelzebub' on everything protestant are alive and well in certain sectors of the Orthodox church. The way you come across is far from an Orthodox mindset. I understand the gay Seraphim Rose said tongues are bad so it must be bad! who knew?
The "speaking in tongues" is at best emotional manipulation, and at worst demonic influence. It was one of the things that really repulsed me from Pentecostalism and non-denom churches.
obviously as a Catholic i find praying in tounges quite silly and i don’t pray that way. However saying it is demonic…this is too far imo. I know many pentecostals who have very sincere Faith in Jesus and are really living according to their Faith. If it was demonic this wouldn’t be the case.
300 million Catholics speak in tongues. Pentecostals will grow to 800 million by 2030. And this doesn’t include charismatics that are in every other denomination. Why not invite a Catholic or Orthodox on to your show?
Counterpoint: the Bible tells us to be silent if no one can interpret. I think there's a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding, like anything right? The extreme stuff that you probably think about when you think about "speaking in tongues" is not what is generally practiced, or should not be anyway.
@@highviewbarbell I had to google that on UA-cam; I saw the commercial. Bruh. That. Seems. Wild. Tbh, I'm not really sure what that is, all I know is that was crazy. I would say a current day example of what "speaking in tongues" shouldn't be is something like the Bethel movement. That movement is one of the most heretical, nonsensical, and sinful "denominations" today. They're doing so much wrong, but suffice it to say, and in the context of this conversation, they're the quintessential, sinful tongue speakers.
Thank you Bojan. I am Orthodox and had an ex orthodox friend introduce me to an evangelical church and all I heard was people saying speaking in tongues was proof of the Holy Spirit in a person. I didn't believe that at all.
As an evangelical Protestant of the Reformed variety, we believe that extatic utterances are NOT legitimate gifts of the Holy Ghost and the faithful are discouraged from engaging in such practices.
@PrenticeBoy1688 can you elaborate on the Bible verse that talks about the spirit praying with groans and utterances? This is what the pastors use to defend speaking in tongues.
@@nen3819 I would be happy to look into any specific references. Romans 8:26 is what comes to mind. In the translation I use, the Authorised Version, it says: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered'.
The English Standard Version, the modern translation popular with my conservative Presbyterian friends says: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
In my particular jurisdiction, and in many of the conservative Presbyterian jurisdictions, and even amongst the Reformed Baptists, this is thought to refer to something that the Holy Ghost does to intercede for us, not something that Holy Ghost causes us to do. God knows what we ought to pray, even when we don't, and the Holy Ghost can intercede for us for things that defy human language. See Psalm 139 (138 in the East).
The counterfeit gift of tongues is by definition utterable, so that would not seem to be what St. Paul has in view in this verse of his Epistle to the Romans. Elsewhere in the New Testament, the gift of tongues would seem to refer to an intelligible human language, or at least it's a language that could be heard and understood as human language. In the second chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, the tongues described here were intelligible to those who understood languages other than those spoken by the Apostles. In the First Epistle to the Corinthians, the first five verses of the fourteenth chapter, St. Paul says that the supernatural utterance of the gift of tongues should only be practiced in the church when another can interpret what's being uttered for the edification of the faithful.
Analysis of the counterfeit gift, the peculiarities of which vary greatly from individual to individual, has revealed that the utterances bear no resemblance to any kind of language. They have no syntax, grammar, etc, etc. The phenomenon occurs in many of the world's religions, Hinduism being a notable example. The Mormons engaged in these utterances well before they would become popular amongst American Christians. This would seem to point to the phenomenon having its origins in the human spirit, or perhaps as Bojan suggested, in supernatural origins other than the Holy Ghost, which is problematic to put it mildly.
Lord have mercy. I'm a former pentecostal who still has the gift of tongues (see my comment). I love the gift of tongues, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat for whatever else better God has for me in Orthodox tradition.
@@joachim847 how do you use it?
One of my university professors did her PHD in charismatic leadership. She lived in America for 3 years to study different leaders and their followers. Whenever she was able to identify individuals who were the first to speak in tongues in a group she was able to ascertain that style/dialect spoken was the same for everyone else in that group. She studied first hand many such churches that were spread out across America. Conclusion: each group had its own dialect of “tongues” that was learned from whoever was the first to manifest said gift , through intense peer and psychological pressure of the group. At the very least it seems to be learned behavior.
This isn’t entirely true. I speak in tongues and it sounds nothing like my church because they didn’t “teach” us. You ask God if he can give you the gift to speak in tongues and after a while, you just did. It took two days for me to start speaking in tongues after I prayed for it. So we don’t sound the same at all. Some do, others don’t.
@@sweetxjc there is no point to it. The Holy Spirit seems to send mixed messages even changes his mind entirely through this gift. Who is right tongues and who is wrong tongues? No way to know. That’s how I know it’s not what was experienced in the Bible.
Eg AOG was entirely against consumption of any type of at alcohol for any reason as revealed by the Holy Spirit to the AOG church; then suddenly the Holy Spirit changed his mind. Let alone the numerous pep talk tongues messages given at at given meeting with no point. It’s emotional high as Bojan points out and easily a humanistic experience . Humility is the sign of a Grace filled life.
@@markomarko494 I’m not trying to argue for tongues or change your mind. I’m just telling you my experience and it’s not like the one you’re describing.
We don’t believe the gift of tongues sounds the same. At least not at my church or other Christians I’ve heard from who speak in tongues. We also don’t speak in tongues loudly at my church because of the fact that no one can interpret it and no everyone has the gift.
It’s usually spoken quietly to ourselves, in the church, during worship. It’s something solely spoken to God through the Holy Spirit. It’s understood as the Holy Spirit praying for us, rather than us praying to God. As Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:2.
So the Holy Spirit says the things that we don’t know about. You may be praying over a raging anger you have, but the Holy Spirit will pray to God asking that you forgive someone that is the root of the raging anger. That’s the belief. The Holy Spirit can prayer better for us. He knows what’s really going on inside us. That God may have not shown to us or has shown but we still don’t understand it because we might have closed off the Lord conviction.
Also I no longer pray in tongues because I understand those in Orthodoxy don’t entirely understand it. And I would like to join an Orthodox Church. I don’t want to be a stumbling block to anyone or create tension that shouldn’t be there.
I’m only explaining there is a mischaracterization of tongues and how it works in churches.
Glory to God you are inquiring to Orthodoxy. I do agree that our hearts being afflicted and tainted by sin affects our prayer, where we can have wrong intentions, pray insincerely, be demanding, fall into distractions, etc. And the Holy Spirit does work within us to help us be better at praying while also interceding Himself. But in Orthodoxy you may find that prayer to the saints is an answer to this dilemma - they are now perfected with Christ in heaven, so of course their prayers (a cloud of witnesses, and in Revelation they offer up incense with the prayers of the saints (Christians on earth)) are pure and untainted. So we ask them to pray for us, with us.
You don't speak in tongues... You think you do because you have been taught to and you expect it. It's entirely self deception. In most, it's blatant deception and fraud. The holy Spirit has more important things to do than inspire babbling... As well, evangelicals are not really Christian. Read up on church history... False prophets abound...and too many are proud to be deceived
i just can't get over how all 'speaking in tongues' means in terms of the aspostles is like they learned greek or arabic or latin or something and could spread the gospel to new people, but pentecostal take that and start making up words on the spot as if that's got anything to do with anything
I understood it like this: The apostles were speaking in the language they knew, but the listeners were able to hear them in their own mother tongue.
This is a far cry from what Protestants claim to be speaking in tongues.
How then you do understand what the apostle paul said in his letters about tongues?
@@Player-re9moI've heard this gift was given to one of the orthodox saints in Mount Athos. I think it was Saint Porphyrios? He was an uneducated man who only spoke Greek and yet when he spoke to Spanish people and Germans, they understood him in their own languages. The Holy Spirit is truly the least appreciated Person of the Trinity.
I believe it was Saint Porphyrios who spoke in Greek but was understood in another language. I believe this is the true gift of tongues.
When I was a Protestant (now Orthodox), I worked part-time as an IT staff at a mega church. When I was a Protestant, my church didn't do the speak-in-tongues thing, so I had never seen anyone directly doing it.
So, on a Friday afternoon, there was a prayer gathering & all staffs were there sitting in circle & we all prayed. During the prayer, almost all staffs were like, "shalalalalalalalala" or "shamalamalama" like that. I was caught off-guard. It was the 1st time I actually saw people "speaking in tongues."
Since then I wondered, what the heck was that & what triggered it psychologically. I asked them what did they say, they didn't know. I asked them why did they do it, all they could say was, "It's the holy spirit came into me."
I was wondering like, "Isn't that like being possessed? Does that mean the Holy Spirit is like a ghost that will possess people & make people do things unconsciously?"
This speak-in-tongues thing is so weird to me. Historically, as I've read, this trend is actually happened much later after the era of the Apostles & the Holy Fathers. It's something modern.
The Bible never shows that speqking in tongues mean babbling something uncontrolably. All I found in the historical context of The Bible, is that it gives someone a new understanding that makes them able to speak out about Jesus Christ. I think the Apostle was able to speak other languages & understand what they were saying, was the real case of speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthiens 14.14-19 (NIV): 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
So Paul when Paul prays in a tongue, his mind is unfruitful. He would pray with understanding. Does that sound to you like he's praying in a language he knows? Then why is his mind unfruitful?
You either pray with words (toungs)
Or pray in spirit
@@christophekeating21His mind is unfruitful because his prayer is not from imagination but From The spirit , but yet he Prays with understanding because he continuously Praises GOD
Amen
May GOD HELP YOU DEAR ONE
I would like to congratulate you, Bojane, on your ease and fluency in English- it is splendid; and yet I feel sure you did not learn it at a very young age (some peculiar English phonology wil probably always escape you) so this makes it doubly amazing. I understand that in order for you to share the good news it is good to have mastered this island's tongue so well. God bless you.
3:30 This is actually the reason why many Pentacostals who turn Catholic end up becoming Catholic in the first place. Passion is a powerful fuel, but it burns quickly unless replenished.
As an individual that converted to Orthodoxy I never took the speaking of tongues in heterodox serious after watching one Nicodemus the Hagiorite video on this topic.
I second the commenter who recommended Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, it spends a lot of time unpacking the history of the "charismatic" phenomenon and why it's of demonic origin
I went to several prayer meetings in college and I felt like I "should" get into it but when everyone in the room seemed to be under some kind of mass hypnosis and doing strange things and saying nonsense I just felt disturbed. I felt very vindicated when I learned the truth. My instincts were telling me to run and they were right!
Like the researchers someone mentioned above, Fr. Seraphim presents some good data with bad conclusions. The opinion is growing within me, that Fr. Seraphim Rose is a false teacher. You can imagine how I feel about sharing this publicly, among Orthodox christians, but he says more wrong things than right things, as far as I can tell. Please, you members of the dogpile, don't attack me for speaking out according to my conscience, and I'm happy to listen and continue explaining what I mean, but I don't want to fight about it. Sorry for highjacking your comment, Coco.
@@joachim847 No worries, I think it's unwise to blindly fangirl/boy any figure in the church and it's always best to talk to your priest if you have questions. Online Orthodoxy can be very problematic imo
Oe time I saw a pentecostal preacher praying in tongues. I could recognize what he was saying. He was saying "glory to Satan" in Arabic.
That's very scary.
Lord Have Mercy! 😭,
Where/ when? I have heard stories similar
Meh. Stories are cheap, sorry.
@@joachim847 Speaking in tongues is satanic, there is no ifs or buts, it is completely demonic.
I go to a Greek Orthodox Church and I love watching your videos, good topics!
As someone who was part of the church of God denomination which is a Pentecostal church and someone who has went through the emotional high and started speaking things unknown to me, I agree with what you said. It seems as if the speaking in tongues gift was a gift meant for the Apostles to communicate the gospel in places foreign to them. Not only that but you also have the people laying hands and having people fall to the ground and shaking. Some strange things
frankly it's based on pride
I was also a part of the Pentecostal Church of God as you were. I've been there and done that. Not going back, I can't go back. Nothing against them, God bless those siblings in Christ. But I can't now that I'm studying God's Word and church history.
Excellent take Bojan. This is really helpful as I have recently been struggling with my prayer life. God bless you!
Blessed Seraphim Rose - Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future
I don't trust Fr. Seraphim Rose. He died too young, and his writings contradict Orthodox tradition by adhering to our version of late scholasticism; i.e. the transmission directly from generation to generation, without actual reference to the fathers in their own context, without acknowledging biblical scholarship, the same way western school men added layer upon layer of cruft without permission to do any excavation into holy tradition. He may be a saint, and if so, his prayers are probably devoted to undoing the damage he did with his pen.
@@joachim847 clearly you've never read any of his writings
@@NavelOrangeGazer I've read plenty of his writings, and I was being nice.
I grew up Pentecostal and converted to Orthodoxy. To answer your last question, we were taught that “tongues” was a heavenly language free from human corruption that goes directly to God. That is was the same “language” that the angels used when endlessly praising God at his throne. Take that how you will.
Брате Бојане, нисам годину дана видео ниједан твој видео (проклет био алгоритам), и сад видим да си потпуно променио формат :D Жив био!
A layman of a church I visit on occasion, part of jurisdiction that does NOT recognise extatic utterances as a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, asked if he could pray for me as I had not been in good health. He finished off the intelligible portion of his prayer with nonsensical tongues. I took that as an invitation to conclude our prayer session with the Gloria Patri in Church Slavonic.
Genuine speaking in tongues may not be that rare. Although I attend the Romanian Orthodox church, my Romanian is not great and the sermons are very long (20 minutes is normal), I usually drift off. Occasionally, a section of the sermon breaks through with heavenly clarity and is truly illuminating. It is a powerful thing when it happens and I really think I was meant to hear what I heard. Then the priest wanders back to his endless anecdotes about his auntie and some misunderstanding over a watermelon and I lose the desire to listen. Something similar has happened in Serbia and my Serbian is far worse than my Romanian. I can just hear something over and above my linguistic ability.
I'm Romanian and from the church I've used to attend I remember an advice from my priest about priests, he alluded to the fact if a priest simply and only speaks personal stuff at the end of liturgy instead of having any proper tye in with the day/ liturgy itself is a waisted liturgy. I don't want you to judge, simply be careful
@@yamataichul I've found that some clergy - mainly Anglican, occasionally RC - talk too much about themselves and it can become an act of egoism or even self worship. I've been pleasantly surprised by the Orthodox liturgies at the Orthodox Church because the priests don't display this behaviour and they centre Christ instead.
here's a linguist's take on the tongues phenomenon-
There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only one type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually, but not always, unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned).
In contrast, the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with.
It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, alliteration, assonance, and over-simplification of syllable structure. It is also interesting to note that any disallowed sound combinations, i.e. consonant clusters, in the speaker’s native language are also disallowed in his/her tongues-speech. Further, this subset of phonemes typically contains only those sounds which are easiest to produce physiologically.
Occasionally some speakers will use two or more subsets of phonemes to generate glossolalia, producing what, to them, sounds like two (or more) distinct “tongues languages”, thus claiming to be able to speak in “divers tongues”.
There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms.
Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught. _Nowhere in the Bible is modern tongues-speech advocated or evidenced._
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
I'm not doubting or questioning the 'tongues experience'; glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound. As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any_ other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from.
‘Tongues’ (read, *‘languages’* ) - the divine gift, is the God given ability effortlessly learn to speak and be understood through real-language barriers. It is not xenoglossy, nor is it modern tongues-speech.
"an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way" True! As a former occultist/sorcerer I can vouch for this!
as a protestant, I agree with you!
What do certain fathers mean when they say that a heartless prayer does not please the Lord, but can also anger him?
They mean your prayers should be sincere.
Consider the prayer of the pharisee in Luke 18:9-14.
Thank you Brother for the expression of your thoughts on the speaking in tongues 😅
Could you elaborate on the baptism of the spirit? Please
From a French Pentecostal brother.
Be blessed in the Lord Jesus Christ 😊
Thanks for speaking on this subject. Many people don’t understand that most of the “tounges” experienced at charismatic prayer meetings and services is a “babble” of the subconscious. But it’s seldom an actual language.
I agree with you on that one, but one might easily say that chanting (especially with ison; drone), incense, repetition and dead foreign language in the liturgy also very intentionally leads the mind to elevated states of consciousness (highs).
Not to even mention the Jesus prayer or rosary… if something is to induce ecstasy, it’s deep meditative repetition of a mantra (I know that Jesus prayer isn’t a mantra but a prayer to Christ, but the way which the fathers prescribe it, the actual practice, it’s just a mantra)
@@HolyOrthodoxy593 lol yeah you can tell yourself that, but the fact that a specific posture is recommended, that you ought to fix your spiritual eye at your heart, that you use the prayer to regulate your breath, that you should regulate your mind in a certain way (not looking at an icon, not imagining any visual thoughts, getting rid of thoughts, I.e. being in the state of hesychia)… yeah, totally not a technique… 🙄
What is it with Christians that they can’t see a prayer as BOTH a prayer of repentance AND a powerful technique to achieve some change in consciousness (which it so very clearly is?). Heck, even Kallistos Ware in his “Power of the Name” (or how is the tiny book called) calls the Prayer a technique. Seriously… just because it is a technique as well as a prayer doesn’t mean it’s pagan
In the Bible speaking in tounges means speaking in, you know, tounges. That is, languages other than that of the speaker. Leaving aside ceaseationism (If that's how you spell it) v continuationism, tounges were never incomprehensible.
I Co 14:2:
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
What you said literally shocked me when you said that we shouldnt pray wether its "easy" or not because literally like an hour or 2 ago I got frustrated because I couldnt finish and concentrate on an Akathist.
Can you explain 1st Corinthians 14. It says he who speaks in tongues edifices himself but he who prophecies edifies the church. Please help! I edited because I found the answer actually on an orthodox website. I was even in a protestant bible college and no one could give me the answer. Turns out that there were in fact two tongues that Paul acknowledges in the New Testament one was in Acts at Pentecost which was the speaking of different languages, and the other one was later either in the book of Corinthians or Colossians I do not recall but it was in fact the language that we called gibberish. This is acknowledged on a Greek Orthodox website. It seems that some priests acknowledge this and some priests do not. I would love some clarification on this because I too am seeking Orthodoxy and learning
I still find the biblical passages about this confusing as an Orthodox. The Bible translations I’ve seen do seem to suggest even the speaker does not always know what they are saying and I’ve never really heard it explained what St. Paul was talking about.
Growing up in my teens in a non-denominational Charismatic church, the speaking in tongues thing did not make sense to me. A defence used by those doing it was that they were the 'tongues of angels ' mentioned in 1 Corinthians. In my university days, which was like a few years after having been in that movement, I was still confused. So I left. 😅 Yes, our emotions can actually trick us in our faith, and it is worse when we bring in alleged spiritual sources like God the Holy Spirit to attribute such experiences to Him when He does not work that way.
I agree 1000%!
Dobro rečeno Bojane
The holy spirit can fill us and give us the ability to speak in tongues.
what's your opinion on Billy Graham?
Wow, Bojan! You really rustled some jimmies with this video!
Anyone who says if you can’t speak in tongues then you’re not a believer I have very very righteous anger towards.
Yeah, St. Paul lists it last for a reason. Some of the saintliest people I know do not have the gift of tongues, some do have it. It's no guarantee of anything, but it can be good, if it's something God wants you to have. God bless you.
You should see the monks on mount Athos falling into ecstasy during the liturgy 😂
During the the brief time I spent in Reformed/Calvinistic circles, I learned that they take a dim view of speaking in tongues. They believe in what they call "cessationism", viz. the idea that once the Canon of Scripture was complete, glossolalia was no longer necessary for the communication of God's Word since they now had it in unambiguous written form. Of course, this hinges on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and with it the negation of Tradition so it would be problematic for the Orthodox to hold to this position.
By the way, have you lost weight?
When that which is perfect has come, then what is provisional will be done away with. Jesus is "that which is perfect". Funny how the one cessationist proof-text is in 1 Cor 13, nestled snugly between chapters 12 and 14, which must be scrupulously ignored -- and for that matter, the obvious context of the verse in chapter 13 needs to be ignored -- in order for cessationism to "work". Holy gibberish is far more convincing than all that 😉
It's a mystery of the Holy Spirit. Those who can speak in tongues can't explain it well other than a powerful burning presence in their chests that compels them to start speaking. The human vessel isn't strong enough.
We pray in the spirit when we do not know what to pray this is scriptural
1 Corinthians 14.13-19 (KJV 1900): "13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."
How can you read that and say it's only a tongue other people understand?
Here's St. Paul in context, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Cor 14:18). You can be Orthodox and practice glossolalia, just tell your pastor about it, do it in the presence of icons and other holy things. Don't do it out loud during the liturgy. Be prepared for God to take the gift away from you if it is harmful, because this is the experience of some (many ?) former pentecostal/charismatics. Others, God allows them to keep the gift of tongues.
If you want the gift of tongues, I don't know what to tell you. The Orthodox church does not have a teaching on that gift (beyond what we find in the bible), though it is attested very rarely among the monks on Mt. Athos. What we have instead is the Jesus prayer, which is probably a more reliable path to the heart for most people. When educated hierarchs such as Met. Hilarion Alfeyev warn us about the charismatic movement, they are worried specifically about Orthodox christians leaving the faith for it. Lord have mercy 🙏
We don't have "pastors", whatever you call such a thing. We have Priests.
Once again, speaking in tongues is demonic, and it is a sign of demonic possession. One must immediately recite the Jesus prayer to cast the demons away.
@@kaiserwilhelmi7532 Yikes. If you want to continue thinking Orthodox priests never refer to themselves as pastors, don't ask any American priests. The title of priest refers to their liturgical function, but they can also be pastors, confessors, even spiritual fathers.
@@joachim847 I am saying that we do not commonly, or really at all refer to them as pastors. Ask any Orthodox Christian, and you will find they call their Priest "Father".
@@kaiserwilhelmi7532 In context, pastor is the most appropriate word. You don't like it because it smells like protestantism. That's not my problem.
Shaba la habbala calabbala
Tongues is/was an evangelistic tool to testify to the nations. Many of the apostles were fishermen, not scholars. They didn’t all just know Greek or Latin or whatever, but because of the Holy Spirit, they were able to proclaim the gospel to the nations. I don’t understand how Pentecostals read babel into tongues. Good Video Bojan.
I felt that the ‘speaking in tongues’ thing was best handled in the Borat movie 😅. But seriously. It’s babbling. Babel. There is a Tower that caused some real issues with that.
Appreciate the content and agree.
God bless.
Orthodox Christians most definitely believe in praying in Tongues.... They do it privately unlike Pentacostals who will do it out in the open while worshipping God. Please read your Holy Bible as Paul lays it out plainly
1 Corinthians 14:17-20, Paul addresses the issue of speaking in tongues within the Corinthian church:
17. For you, if you pray in a tongue, no one understands you, for you are speaking mysteries to God. But no one else is edified.
18. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you,
19. but in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding so that I may teach others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20. Brothers, don't be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.
4:26 well is still blasphemy and apostasy so the devil to whom muslims pray is probably ok wit it
I understand people make it up, but at the same time I know Orthodox Priest who do speak in tongues or what St Paul called praying 'Mysteries unto God'. We are not the divine scissors that cut out what we don't like and keep what we do like or reduce it into the realm of natural ability. The foundation of all tradition is scripture, thus it is nearly impossible to take tongues and reduce it to a learned language. Unfortunately the Orthodox church has many Calvinist that come into the church and bring in bits of Reformed theology with them. The church fathers did not even deny such a gift or even tongues and interpretation! They just simply did not. Some fathers gave witness this was going on in the early 2nd century. Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all of them at Corinth. However this should not be the main focus. At the same time it is not proper to just have philosophy without the mystical gifts of the Spirit. This is why the Pentecostals/Charismatics are growing at such a numerous rate. The gifts of the Spirit all of them are in the scriptures and the ancient Fathers of the church. Let us not become the monks that jumped out the window when St Symeon the New Theologian began to speak. If anything the giftings within the context of Orthodoxy should be much greater and more manifest within it's gates than the Denominations outside of it. True Orthodoxy when living out your Baptism and Chrism SHOULD be Charismatic in practice. If it is not the only thing that will be available is dead philosophy. TO even hear people make comments reducing 'Tongues' to off the rocker fringe groups is madness. How can we assume this was not Orthodox first and stolen from us? Many Orthodox historians grieve what happened as a reaction to the Montanist in 251AD. Lord have mercy we should not assume we are experts when these things were clearly supernatural and available to all. We carry within us and upon us the energies of God. That can manifest itself in the gits of the Spirit being manifested to those around us. Why should we not pray for the sick if we feel His energies moving in us? ( I am speaking for when outside the church). We need Him and the world needs His workings.
We have a treasury that is being plundered because we reject the fulness of what is available.
Amen!
It's important to make clear what speaking in tongues actually means in the first place.
If a person speaks in their mother tongue and someone with a different language understands them completely, that's speaking in tongues.
What Protestants view as speaking in tongues is nonsensical blabbering.
@@Player-re9mo People keep saying that, and I honestly don't understand how you come to that conclusion. (Unless you haven't read the relevant new testament passages, cough cough.)
Glad you just took your big spiritual scissors to 1 Corinthians 14:2. I guess a large number of Pharisees claiming 'Beelzebub' on everything protestant are alive and well in certain sectors of the Orthodox church. The way you come across is far from an Orthodox mindset. I understand the gay Seraphim Rose said tongues are bad so it must be bad! who knew?
Amen. Well said!
The "speaking in tongues" is at best emotional manipulation, and at worst demonic influence. It was one of the things that really repulsed me from Pentecostalism and non-denom churches.
Use a lexicon pull up the word tongues you'll be amazed it means language or dialect not gibberish
obviously as a Catholic i find praying in tounges quite silly and i don’t pray that way. However saying it is demonic…this is too far imo. I know many pentecostals who have very sincere Faith in Jesus and are really living according to their Faith. If it was demonic this wouldn’t be the case.
300 million Catholics speak in tongues. Pentecostals will grow to 800 million by 2030. And this doesn’t include charismatics that are in every other denomination. Why not invite a Catholic or Orthodox on to your show?
Counterpoint: the Bible tells us to be silent if no one can interpret.
I think there's a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding, like anything right? The extreme stuff that you probably think about when you think about "speaking in tongues" is not what is generally practiced, or should not be anyway.
to be fair you're right, the only visual experience and memory I have of this behavior is from the film Jesus Camp
@@highviewbarbell I had to google that on UA-cam; I saw the commercial.
Bruh. That. Seems. Wild.
Tbh, I'm not really sure what that is, all I know is that was crazy. I would say a current day example of what "speaking in tongues" shouldn't be is something like the Bethel movement. That movement is one of the most heretical, nonsensical, and sinful "denominations" today. They're doing so much wrong, but suffice it to say, and in the context of this conversation, they're the quintessential, sinful tongue speakers.
@@corporate.security I've heard interesting things about hillsong and Bethel ministry.
@@mik569 oh yeah, you're better off staying away from those 2 particular churches.