Hacking Polyamory: Dealing With Jealousy
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- jealousy is part of our sexual evolution. here are some ways to survive it (poly or not)!
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www.lacigreen.tv
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▸ guest
Dr. Geoffrey Miller
twitter: / primalpoly
website: www.primalpoly.com
▸ summary
Laci Green and Geoffrey Miller discuss the evolution of jealousy and how to deal with it.
▸ chapters
00:00 Welcome back!
00:52 Why we feel jealous
03:03 Does jealousy protect relationships?
5:30 Questioning jealousy
6:30 How to tame it
11:40 When poly is a threat
My biggest issue is Poly people telling Mono guys that if they don’t like the idea of their girl wanting to be Poly then their insecure but literally its fine to not be okay with boundaries being crossed if you established them at the beginning of a relationship.
Same.
As someone who might be into poly, I agree with this 100%. Poly isn't for everybody and it sounds damn hards and exhausting, even if it does work well for some, and mono is a completely valid, reasonable, and understandable boundary to have.
@@gregvs.theworld451 We've come to an insane point in society when you have to defend monogamy
@@MikeBarbarossa I wrote that 7 months ago and have different views on the subject now. Please don't take 1 random nobody on the internet as indicative of how fan society has "fallen".
The reason celebrity crushes aren't a big deal is precisely because of the celebrity status.
The likelihood of one's SO getting anywhere near a relationship with their celebrity crush is basically zero, so it isn't really a threat at all.
Having said that, if there was a chance for that person go spend time with that celebrity crush, you can be damn sure their partner would suddenly have issues with it.
IMO you really can't scale this situation up into polyamory. Another person being in a relationship with your SO is a world away from them having a celebrity crush.
Correct. It's a theoretical threat, but it's not a realistic threat. Jenny in accounting is a realistic threat.
Yes this was a braindead analogy; my crush on celebrity Scarlett Joe Hanson and my crush on my wife's best friend ARE NOT THE SAME!
If you're in a relationship with someone and you don't really remember why, I think it might be wise to re-evaluate being in that relationship regardless of polyamoury or potential other partners for either of you.
Geoffrey Miller's explanations for jealousy don't make a lot of sense to me, at least in my knowledge and experience as a layman. If jealousy was about paternity and disease containment and possessiveness, then how come jealousy can be assuaged through communication? To me, jealousy makes a lot more sense as an expression of personal inadequacy, which is what Esther Perel has said as well in her work with infidelity. In my understanding, a person is jealous because they feel as though they are not "enough", which is why emotional reassurance from their partner can drive jealousy away. (Jealousy can also be an expression of doubt as to the investment in the relationship, or a questioning towards the imbalance of resources spent by each party in the relationship, both of which can also be addressed through communication.) If I am allowed to speak in metaphor, jealousy, to me, is much more an "internal" emotion than an "external" one, meaning that it has more to do with things like perceptions of the self (insequrities, past-trauma, etc), and much less to do with things like being afraid of competing sperm.
I also found Miller's approach a little too male-centric. All statistical studies show that women are equally as likely to both express jealousy and cheat, so, in light of that, the paternity thing doesn't have any merit, because if paternity were a factor, then we would be seeing a disparity in feelings of jealousy between genders, which we don't. I also didn't like that he was projecting a lot of shame onto it, with his "women are not your property" rhetoric. People who feel jealous rarely do it out of spite or entitlement, so this kind of language comes off as unnecessarily inflammatory to me. Why make people who are jealous feel even more guilty than they already do?
Obviously, he is the expert and I am just some random dude, but what he was saying didn't seem to align with my understanding of the subject at all. If anyone can fill in the blanks for me, feel free.
yeah he kept saying "Married couple" and "Heterosexual relationship". Why say those things? This topic isn't special to those relationships, it's for everyone of every gender married or not.
I think you can both be right depending on the individual, I think Miller is speaking more from his own feelings and experiences. I found the "treating their partner as their property" to be unfair too, despite being in a polya relationship myself. I'm sure some people do that, but I think for most people, it's less about feeling like the other person belongs to you and is therefore subordinate or less than, but it's more like people put their partner up on a pedestal and value their time with them above anyone else and want for their partner to feel the same way.
You're conflating the percieved emotional complexity of jealousy with the evolutionary mechanism behind it. What you describe makes jealously sound compelling and it's part of why, broadly, we have it. If you could just turn it off and rationalize it away so easily it would not be ingrained via evolution. The reality is, regardless of how we think about jealousy personally, its evolutionary functions are clear in us and other species. Feelings of inadequacy are just that.
I agree that he was way too male centric in his discussion
This comment is fantastic. Screenshot
I think saying STIs aren’t that serious and can always be tested for regularly is inaccurate. Males can’t check for HPV in most cases and HIV may not show up in blood tests right away. Not saying people should live in fear but there are consequences that aren’t just “take some antibiotics”
They have vaccines for HPV. People who get them young won't have to worry about that.
@@kenofken9458 yes the vaccine protects against the hpv that causes cancer but not for the hpv that causes warts, which can stay in your system and reoccur for years.
@@Velokat1 True but unless you're a lifelong celibate or a virgin who marries another virgin for life, odds are you're going to get HPV at some point. Something like 75% or more of the population has had it. There is no risk free way to live that can actually be called a life. Everyone has to decide for themselves the level of risk and trade-offs they're willing to have. STIs are not a trivial matter by any means, but it's not 1985 anymore where any encounter you have is gambling your life. We have too many people who aren't concerned enough about STI risks but also a large number who overstate the risk to absurd levels and leave themselves and others terrified of physical intimacy. I've found the best life is on the middle path.
@@kenofken9458 Nah man, I think you're running in the wrong circles. I've had around 20 sexual partners and have yet to get anything. I've been tested and I'm 100% clear. Maybe stay clear of the loose woman and party chicks.
@@StormyWeather93 Testing for HPV only detects the cancer-causing strains of concern. A lack of visible warts may or may not mean you don't have any virus. There is no accurate test for HPV in men either. If you're one of the younger crowd, you also have the advantage that lots of your partners will have been vaccinated already.
honestly, I've never known a polyamorous couple who didn't have messy breakups or end up with one clearly whipped member who barely or never benefits from the open nature of the relationship (usually men in these relationships but I've seen women in that role too). swinger relationships tend to work out better for some reason though, maybe due to them being a lot more mutual by nature or them avoiding additional members of the non-sexual aspects of a relationship
And always remember, polamory and non-monogamy without informed and enthusiastic consent from all involved is never healthy, same as any other romantic or sexual activity/experience. Power imbalances still exist, too. I'd also be curious to find out if the two of you discussed the issues that come up with "Unicorn Hunting."
Can do whatever you want to but it’s not going to contribute to a healthy, growing culture and society
@@MrMllx amen
What is "unicorn hunting "?
@@saschamayer4050 "Unicorn" is a term for a 3rd person joining a couple (I think) so Unicorn hunting would be when a couple hit people up to join their relationship, usually for sexual reasons. I've gotten this a lot on dating sites like "yo me and my girl are looking for someone cute for a 3some". I think it's fine to have a relationship like this but there's definitely nicer ways to go about it :p
@@MrMllx it’s a good thing then that individuals & their relationship decisions aren’t what make or break society then. People can love however they choose to. Long as everyone is consenting, legal, and not getting misled. Unfortunately the latter often can happen.
Wow, loved what you said about the idea that jealousy is uniquely an unmanageable emotion.
I really needed this, thank you Lacy ❤️
Excited for more content! Thanks for being you and sharing that with us.
Hey lacy I want to thank you for all of your videos Over the years, you’ve leant me your perspective and explained so many new concepts in the world of sex to me when I was younger, and it’s good to see you still in this space, I hope you are happy in your personal life!
I started using the word partner instead of girlfriend a while back, among other positive habits, because of you and it’s helped me be more conscious of how I approach my relationships, more openly and more constructively. Thank you!
OMG! I love this topic!! I am super curious!! Thank you Laci!!
As someone who has had...mixed experiences when I have been proactive and forthright in expressing my attitude toward poly/open relationships, it's not surprising that I think about the jealousy topic often. Thank you for articulating a lot of my thoughts so well, and framing it in such a constructive manner.
Lacy, long time follower thru another personnal account. stumbled upon your videos on my feed, relevant back then, relevant now, loving your content, and so sososo proud of you
I love all of these conversations you have. I haven't really started seeking our podcasts, but if you posted them here, I would love to listen to more of them even if its mostly just audio.
No matter how you perceive it. Polyamory is always benefiting one person over the other and it will always lead to jealousy. Most people I've met that are into that aren't exactly right in the head.
I feel the same way about monogamy 😉
@@truthbetold8233 judging by your profile picture I’m assuming it’s always been pretty difficult for you to get someone to be monogamous, so it makes sense you feel that way.
@@tyawesomejohnson1672 I think I'm pretty universally considered good looking, but nice try.
@@truthbetold8233 If you are incapable of forming a monogamous relationship with someone without both people benefiting from that equally, that really just does say more about you than anything else
@@chesteryolo7058 nice straw man argument.
PODCAST SINCE 2019!!!??? AND IM ONLY HEARING ABOUT IT NOW?!?!???
Subscribed seconds after you mentioned it
Interesting infos!
I myself could'nt ever engage in a polyamorous relationship myself, because for me 1 partner is enough drama and maintenance! 😅
But if that's what floats your boat, have fun with it. 😉
12:22
There's always that monogamous person yelling into the void, "oh I could never.."
Cool. No one asked you.
@@jetleclaire5868 So much salt in this comment
Welcome backk
Dr. Laci, the heir to Dr. Ruth.
Hey Laci! I watch your videos all the time! Love you! 😘❤️💜💗
When Laci said ''Maybe not everybody should do it'', the sensible thing would have been to say ''Yeah, it's not for everybody but it works for some''. Instead he basically says it's all in your head and you're being silly.
I went to a polyamory panel once and that was the general sentiment they had. It's not scary, but it's not for everyone. (And it's better to be honest that it's not for you upfront, because the first rule of polyamory is honest communication about needs.)
Very interesting discussion, I might have to check out the podcast
The main issue I've had with poly is running into manipulators and narcissists. Actively cool poly people respect feelings and boundaries. Some people look for a way in and actively mate poach. terrible experience that takes jealousy and makes it real instead of imagined.
yup, to me, people that don't ignore personal boundaries or feelings are essentially using the idea of "polyamory", "open relationships" etc. for something very mean-spirited and egoistic.
(sidenote: that also doesn't mean there might not be +some+ feeling of hurt etc. when switching from a monogamous romantic relationship to something different. in the end, it's a matter of compromise, with everyone involved needing to be willing to take steps towards the other/others)
Super interesting episode, thank you! I feel like other emotions within romantic relationships are also put in that unquestionable bubble: romantic love/attraction and sexual attraction I think are also “don’t touch” emotions. What do you think?
Please talk about what the third person might be feeling, because I was that and it doesn't really feel good. Honestly not the jealousy part, but the weird relationship unbalance if one of you is in a commited relationship and the other one is not. In two singles hooking up, you have a comradery of feeling alone sometimes, not worthy of love, what ever feelings make being single not fun sometimes. With one person having another person giving them tenderness, the other might feel needy and it shifts the dynamic. ...hypothetically, not that I know anything about it. Every similarity to living or dead people in this story is merely coincidental 😅Honestly not the biggest fan as of now
Yeah definitely feels like a power imbalance. If you are in an open relationship and you date single people then they can fall for you and you can just dump them at any moment and go back to your partner.
Jag hade nog avrådat från att börja dejta nån i ett öppet förhållande just pga det här haha
I was a unicorn for a while. It was traumatic & messed me for a long time. Trust me - it's not you! The problem is them
It's particularly risky if you end up involved with unicorn hunters, because you are being drawn in with the promise of having some share in a long-term and stable relationship - but are essentially being reduced to a prop for that relationship. Especially older couples and any couple that ever uses the phrase ''spice up' our relationship' are notoriously likely to treat unicorns like sex toys they have to begrudgingly take to the movies sometimes. Unless you have a relationship with both partners independently of each other, and especially if they deflect your attempts to establish those independent relationships, it is very likely it's not a 'relationship' at all.
This sounds like you may have been used as a Unicorn for a bored couple. From what I've read online, it's a pretty demeaning experience, even if it seems fun at first.
It took a world war to draw Laci out
Great information!
She's alive! 😊 Honestly made my day to see you again.
I can appreciate this cold analysis of emotions to make good decisions but it might be healthy to respect our emotions and use them as a guide to live in balance between them and logic
Hey Laci! I listened to the indirect message podcast of this topic the other day! I am here for this discussion as a polyam myself ❤ Thanks again for covering it
I love the way your face expresses emotion. Like, obviously your dimples are wonderful, but the way eyesbrows and chin move are absolutely gorg!
You are such a lovely person.
Nice to see you back :-)
Hey Laci, I've been away from the internet for a while, what happened to your Patreon?
So does "jealousy" come into play against "manogohamy" when impulsion and mortality compel one to want to experiment before one's death just because of social constructs and curiousity...!?
Being overbearing is one thing, being overly controlling is another and being over possessive is even another; yet the majority of people are over protective over (for example) their kids and yet have a cognitive dissonance and co dependant trusting relationship with a one sided surveillance agreement with government, military and other establishments; and yet when it comes to you personally or your selfies, extracurricular activities, home, apartment business and vehicular lives are absolutely vigilant!? Yet... When it comes to your own children except for a nanny cam, blackmail and invasion of privacy in your domicile you have no scruples (for the most part); but school Oh no! Moderation is absolutely necessary and law until something happens! The audacity to demand mandatory cameras for children, students and workers is out of the question or not even an issue concern or topic!?
But yet...; When it comes to sexual promiscuity, curiousity, trends, rumors, urges and popular suggestions...; Then all of a sudden open marriages, hall passes, why not and Y.O.L.O. become all the rage...!? Sham marriages and open relationships are more successful than natural organic marriages and everything is up for debate and rationalization...!?
Please help me understand why is it more important to sexually explore and satisfy one's self than to properly insulate and govern one's own self one's own children and dare I say it and ask it...; One's own commitment to a person!? Over fetishes, curiosities, greed and insatiable nature than manogohamy; is it not the "jealousy" of temptation, desire, addiction, lack of self control, responsibility as well as accountability the destroyer of discipline!?🤳🏽🤔 Jealousy as it pertains to what!? Denying your one and only life in order for you to do whatever it is you want before you die, because you feel like it, want to try it, are entitled to or because you can!? Well then... Does jealousy kill more than greed or poverty!?
Therefore, ergo; does jealousy only negatively apply to current events, agendas and overall goals of those with platforms controlling and steering specific objectives?🤳🏽🤔
Polyamory is for a very specific archetype, but it is an archetype in humanity which has always been there. TO me this is really about self-discipline, perceived 'ownership' of people at times, and timing overall. For most people involved it seems there comes a time when it is practical and impractical to be in polygamous relations.
Hmm. Would seem to me that the only likely successful polyamorous relationship would be one where the (relationship) needs of each individual involved were being met. Otherwise the jealousy, justifiably IMO, is going to rise up and the grouping breaking up in some way shape or form.
I imagine this will remain a unique relationship route for unique people and will not generally apply well for the masses as meeting the relationship needs of increasing numbers of people (3+) is inherently complex and energy intensive. A comparison I can think of that many people will have experience with for this might be between parents and their kids. Even parents who love all of the kids equally can still find it harder and harder to meet the relationship needs of each kid as the numbers increase. This can be placated by the the siblings and other family members helping meet any deficits from the parents, but in an adult polyamorous grouping (especially since now adding in the sex factor) I imagine this would be much more difficult to meet the needs of each individual. Especially in a primarily hetero grouping as the primary interest would be one of the individuals being the focus of two, where as there is only one to try and meet the needs of the two. I imagine this is easier to mitigate in gay/lesbian/bi grouping scenarios.
What a bummer note to end on. It was really great and then bam - I'm feeling like hell again
Laci is exactly who you want to see on your notifications in these messed up times.
The way he speaks about jealousy as fact... hmmm I wouldn’t say it switch such certainty it’s definitely a scientific hypothesis but can’t be stated as absolute fact. Many indigenous folk tales describe jealousy as a symptom of an imbalance within your self and your environment one of the most famous sayings from our indigenous part of Mexico is “cuídate de la envidia” “protect your self from jealousy” as well as asking the moon to help change your jealous emotions into love
In most cases it is illegal for a father to get a paternity test without the mothers consent. So I would argue that one is still vaild.
It's interesting stuff but I'm not into the idea of being in a polyamorous relationship. In the past I've felt uncomfortable sleeping with women who've said (afterwards) that they have a partner and are in an open relationship. It's the kind of thing that feels like it would be one sided in favour of the more sexually promiscuous partner and at that point It's a means to an end rather than a shared loving experience between all parties. My own insecurities likely inform this logic but the idea of a partner telling me they were in love with someone else and wanted to open the relationship is the kind of thing that would make me deeply cry. It's the kind of thing you've got to be really open minded to be into. I can imagine it working better in homosexual relationships or in a relationship where one partner is bisexual and they all make the joint decision to turn the relationship into a love triangle but in my head I can only imagine a scenario where I'd be put out to the wayside for anorher man.
Opening up a relationship that wasn't poly is very difficult, and even when everyone's acting in good faith can sometimes come down to realising that it won't work and either it has to stay mono or it needs to end. If you aren't poly yourself it's usually easier to enter a poly relationship where that's open from the start, partly because you get to develop that relationship at your own pace as you find out whether you're able to be in one, and partly because there's a lot less to lose if it doesn't work out. For what it's worth, promiscuity makes less of a difference than does... I don't know what to call it, dating market demand I guess. You can be a person who is exceptionally open and available for sex and it won't matter if you aren't able to effectively filter and find prospects, and some people have dramatically more prospects. Young bisexual women are tremendously valued, theoretically because more women are open to female experimenting, but in practise because there are insane numbers of unicorn hunters. Older hetero men are by comparison the penny-stock.
Triangle relationships are relatively rare in established poly spaces, just because the chances of an established relationship finding another person and developing in a way that all six of those individual relationships are roughly as strong as each other is unlikely. The more common arrangements are poly webs, where everyone has their own connections of varying strengths, and the word implying 'sticky and easily tangled' is not a mistake since poly circles tend to be small and most people prefer to stick within them for exactly the reasons you describe.
They were wrong to tell you about their relationships after the fact, since your consent was therefore not properly informed. Being in an open relationship is something people should be upfront about, and if they're not, then they're not practicing that lifestyle in a healthy way.
😊
Howdy Laci ! Good to see u again an also Youse da finest ! 😂
As a side note ... I think people are often conflating the concepts of "open relationship", "polyamory" and "swinging". - in which jealousy (or not) is a factor in all.
But they are not the same.
Personally, I'm not sure I believe that open relationships or polyamory are stable constructs. Swinging together with your partner can be a reinforcing element in a relationship though where compersion replace jealousy.
Moo! Glad to see you back!
:=8D
I believe this is the time to say: I love you Lacy! (as content provider, no idea about personally since we haven't met or even had online direct communication)
thank you, this is very helpful. i am in a relationship now with someone who is very open about crushes and stuff, and i find it a bit destabilizing.
i feel a bit stuck, because i feel like communicating jealousy reveals a lack of confidence (in myself and the relationship), which then has the real potential of actually creating the problem that i was fearing - and so i keep it all bottled up inside.
You have the right to live in a relationship you want. Don’t adapt to something you don’t feel safe with.
Keeping anything bottled up inside usually just makes it worse. I think talk it out, figure out what works for you both, and also examine why you feel so insecure and jealous and start trying to work on that. Best wishes!
I hope you know how happy it makes me when I see you exploring the depths of the psyche and human emotions and sexuality! Unfortunately I'm at issue with just about everything said so far... More accurately I heard him say jealousy is a deep rooted emotion and then seemed to contradict himself speaking of things like STD's which are very modern problems. Even the concept of "my child" evolutionarily speaking is rather new. Humans have been tribal for the majority of our existence and the entitlement of ownership is a very male oriented, somewhat recent emotion. Ego driven I'd surmise.
Terence Mckenna attributed it to the recession of wetlands of the African plains, making psilocybin mushrooms less abundant and seasonal, forcing humans to turn to alcohol to fill the dark empty void. "So began the slow descent to hell" As alcohol seems to drive the male ego and aggression to a point of harm when when not inoculated properly.
Laci!!! Thank you. As a poly person it's nice to have some videos in regards to my community. Keep being yourself
The truth is most ppl seem to not know what LOVE IS or how it works, sad but true, they go through life trying to find and understand it only to learn how to hate💎
Thank you for recognizing polyamory on your channel and sharing some of the podcast goodness with us non-podcast types!
Some degree of hubris to say we know all of the reasons people become sexually jealous and can “hack” them.
pull them out laci
No point in being jealous
im really not sure how poly isnt just cheating with a different name.
Because it's not cheating if you have both agreed to change the rules, or else the word 'cheating' is meaningless.
@@UnreasonableOpinions but even if you agree for some reason it would still be cheating if your with another no?
Cheating means to break the predetermined rules of a relationship, which is why it's bad because you'd be abusing your partner's trust. You'd be doing something behind your partner's back, without their consent. If consent is present, then that means your partner knows and is supportive. The point of polyamory is to be open and honest, and to consult your partners and include them in any decision making.
It's like how tabletop games have rules, and if you break those rules, then that's cheating. If a group decide to homebrew and come up with new/altered rules, it's only cheating if one of the people from the group breaks the rules incorporated or added into the homebrew.
@@ebush279 If cheating doesn't mean 'breaking the explicit or strongly-implied rules' then it means nothing as serves no purpose as a word. There are many ways to describe someone's actions in a relationship that are upsetting, including just skipping a word and describing the feeling directly, so using a word on purpose that doesn't mean what you are describing is not only unhelpful but actively undermines good communication.
Even if you can't personally contemplate any context in which you'd be in a relationship that didn't prohibit intimacy with other people, defining actions within another relationship based on what they'd count as by your relationship's rules doesn't really make sense.
@@ebush279 If you look at any of the definitions of fraud, they all center on "deceit, fraud, artifice", words like that.
You might oppose consensual non-monogamy for any number of personal or religious reasons, but it is not cheating in any sense of the word.
I remeber when she was the Andrew Tate of woke empowered Feminists ...Dam have times changed, even she herself switched up.for relevancy.
can you please talk about kids at drag shows.
"celebrity" "crush" I Could Make Jokes About That All The Girls I Like Are Quite The Opposite
Pease be with everyone... except your mom. OOooOOo
love you
At the end, saying “that’s dangerous” is loaded language. Why “dangerous”? Shouldn’t two people in a relationship want to know if they’re properly matched, and end it if they’re not?
how has the face in the thumbnails not aged in 10 years?? photoshop? makeup & lighting? sorcery?
WHAT IS YOUR SECRET?!? my thirties are ending, and i need help!!
Call it what you want Polyamory is just people wanting to engage in sexual promiscuity and have it be okay. Plain and simple. On a biological level men and women have specific sexual bonding and behavioral inclinations. Just because we want something though on a biological level doesn’t always mean we need to justify satisfying it to the nth degree. Yes, males usually are inclined to mate with anything that moves when it comes to females, but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to pattern with every female they feel attractive towards.
I’ve seen folks here say Polyamory is different because it’s consensual and doesn’t break any rules when all parties agree, but there are more inherent problems than that. Women do naturally bond with one partner over time when it comes to sexual intimacy. Partnering with multiple sexual partners damages a woman’s ability to intimately bond. Modern sex practices all around are quite cancerous and I am not just talking about Polyamory. The way we’ve normalized sex and encouraged regular, frequent sexual encounters has damaged pair bonding among folks, which has lead to the higher divorce rates in the modern era (yes I know the younger generations don’t have as much sex and less teen pregnancies, that’s different, I am talking about generations from the 70s to the 90s). Monogamy is definitely the better way to go. I’m not saying be a prude by the way, but the way we’ve de-stigmatized sex has lead to some damaging societal issues (we do have a decrease in the nuclear family and birth rates right now). Sex requires responsibility.
.....not sure I could handle it at least not on a regular basis ...don't know how the Mormon women do it ? But if I absolutely knew my girl loved me then maybe for her sake I might .......and also is it my Imagination or does Laci look way younger and more beautiful than the last video ? Kind of got lost in the video looking at your beautiful smile..........
I miss you!
What about time? There's only so many hours in a day. How can you split your energy between multiple people and still meet all their emotional and physical needs? They would be forced to be polyamorous themselves. Then we would have an entire culture of people engaging in semi invested relationships with flimsy bonds because there's always some else to take their place. Traditional relationships are a sacrifice and the idea that sacrifice is seen as oppression nowadays but there is benefits of self control and building something greater than yourself for the future. Also what happens if there's children involved? What type of resentment could rise when there's a child that takes up more time and your emotional and physical needs are given less time and you are expected to invest in a child that isn't yours while sharing your partner? That takes a special person. The troupe of the evil stepparent is there for a reason. The odds of being physically or sexually abused as a child are ridiculously and I'll even say concerningly high if you had a stepparent.
Honestly what's the difference between polyamory and being single and dating multiple people? An arbitrary title that you share with multiple other people? It's the relationship equivalent to getting a promotion where you still make the same amount of money and have the same responsibilities but instead of a junior manager you're a senior manager.
Excaxtly. People grow and learn and empathise with others, learn to understand the mind and the heart of their loved ones. This takes TIME. And yes, sacrifice. By hard way you won the most sacred thing, like everything what you give is what you take, invest and you'll grow. Having relatinships with many people is ok, but are shallow relatioships, nothing to give in a long term cause you must be a superhero to defeat the time that needs to lead there.
From experience, where there is a primary partnership and it's lasted more than one year in a poly situation, the relationships are stronger than a very large number of traditional ones - simply you have to work a lot harder and be much, MUCH more open and communicative about what you want and need out of the relationship and each other for it to get so far. A very depressing number of traditional relationships are based off little more than vague assumptions of mutuality and sheer momentum, and when you take the time (and have the trust) to actually get down to brass tacks with the individual partners there is not that much mutual understanding and instead just a lot of mutual tolerance.
Children do end up putting the brakes on these things since they are a massive absorber of time and require a lot of stability - but people in poly relationships know this. For many it won't matter since they just don't want children. Those who have children overwhelmingly do so from the position of having a core relationship, and end up putting poly pursuits on hold for a long time since they barely have the time for each other.
The comparison to a fake promotion is not unreasonable. A lot of peoples' fantasies about poly are absurd fantasies of sex rampages, when in practise it's a massive amount more work and you still spend most of your time and energy with one person anyway.
Being poly is like having friends. You might have one or two best friends, but you still hang out with your other friends sometimes. You can even adopt kids or buy a house with your best friend, and focus your time and energy with each other and the life you build together. But you still have other friends
Narcissism is alive and well.
You're conflating mental illness and nonconforming relationships, AND stigmatizing both. Wow.
All this seems great in theory, but if even porn stars struggle with this type of relationship, it's pretty safe to say that if this works for anyone they're going to be the tiny exception to the rule.
Porn stars are just people, they struggle with polyamory for the same reason we all would: we're raised in a monogamy-based culture that doesn't really teach us self-reflection and healthy communication
P.S. If that's the case then we need to have sanctioned regulated prostitution (which we kinda sort of do but don't) like Porn business legally binding contracts make consensual sexual financial compensatitional agreements, requirements, pre requisites and arrangements when engaging instead of marriage... Right...!?🤳🏽🤔 Tell me what you think please.
Probably best not to think of someone as "your other half" if you're trying to practice polyamoury.
then why is my girlfriend is jealous when i was kissing another girl
this is absurd.
I dont like when she does that.
This just sounds like adultery with extra steps.
This was honestly such a dumb convo. Lacey did fine. This guy didn't make a single good point though. All of his points about jealousy were such surface level assessments its laughable. And the bias is beyond obvious. Like his point about how monogamous couples are ok with celebrity crushes but not crushing on their coworker? Like no shit brainiac, my wife isn't going to date brad pitt? Obviously those two things are not the same. And trying to argue a poly relationship in fact means the relationship is MORE special and proves your unique compatibility? It is obviously not unique since its plural? Theres just no logic in that line of thinking at all.
Do you restrict yourself to only having one friend, so that the friendship is "special"? No, you understand that you can have multiple friends and that each of your relationships with them is special. You're not threatened or jealous if your friends have other friends. So why is it so different with lovers?
Obviously if you have kids, property, or other commitments with someone, that relationship is elevated/centralized. But friends can have commitments like that too and still have other friends in their lives. So once again, what makes lovers different?
I loved this conversation. Question: how can you tell if someone is your soul mate?
No such thing as a soul mate. Love is slow and cautious in the beginning. Trust has to be earned
If you were holding one person by each hand, they were dangling off a cliff and you only had the strength to hold on to 1 person: Who would you drop?
I frequently ask myself that question. We all have finite time and resources. Additionally, catastrophes are part of life. Replace strength with "time/resources", replace cliff with "catastrophe" and you've got why I would NEVER engage in "polyamory".
When it comes to someone as financially/socially critical as a lifetime partner; it is essential to ensure when that cliff example occurs I am not the one they drop. Failing to ensure that puts you in an extremely precarious spot financially & socially.
Not questioning what you decide to do personally or anything, but just a reminder that as an argument against poly, this sounds more like an argument against social arrangements in which people are put in "extremely precarious spots" if they are out of a romantic partner (in other words, the nuclear family was a relatively recent invention, and it's generally done more harm than good)
@@PetersonSilva The "nuclear family" is hardly a recent invention.
That has been the standard in post-nomadic civilizations. Various cultures have added extended family to the mix.
But the family has always boiled down to a man, a women, and the children they produce. It's a smallest self reproducing unit and makes commitments/division of resources clear.
Romantic relationships, like everything people do, is a means to an end. If you are doing something different it means 1 of 2 things:
1) You are acting against your best material interests
OR
2) Your access to resources is significantly greater than average
@@camadams9149 oh you're one of those... that's alright mate, you do you
@@PetersonSilva "oh you're one of those" I doubt "one of those" however you define it.
My thinking is incredibly heterodox because I only care about what works
So is that what you think about your friends too? Do you have to have one super special friend and make sure they feel the same about you, to protect yourself against this unlikely hypothetical event?
I'm guessing no. For some reason we as a culture can understand having many friends, but for some reason we can't fathom or tolerate the thought of having multiple lovers. It's weird to me
I was wondering how you are doing good to see you are fine interesting vid
Why though?
Why not?
@@iwasntreadyforitall because I'm suspecting that demiphobia is a thing
@@ty2010 what? what is that?
🤩🥰😍😛😃
I don't get jealous. I don't feel compersion either.
The woman i loved most in my life was bi and i loved to point out hot women to her.
For me, it's just about me loving someone. If the other person reciprocates, great, but just feeling love was great.
But paternity testing is illegal in some countries.
Is feminism even necessary? I'm actually curious.
Hacking your jealousy can be unhealthy. Jealousy is a biological driver, it isn’t something that should be ignored or “turned off”. You reject your instincts at your own peril.
I mean idk about this guy, but he seems to not realize that many people (men/women/etc) may find it hard to do polyamory not because of just jealousy but because of strong insecurities within themselves that would run rampant in that scenario. Wouldn’t work out.
The insecurity creates the jealousy. They go hand in hand
still around? wow
Hope your February is good
Genetic testing does not eliminate paternity issues.
Many countries have enacted laws to make it impossible for a husband to unilaterally request a paternity test. The primary reason is to protect the childs financial well being, by forcing the man to pay regardless.
"Paternity certainty", here, is pulled as a "biological primitive" reason for the existence of jealousy.
But this doesn't say why the specie would need nor even benefit from "paternity certainty".
I think this point is left unfinished, its logic doesn't get to a conclusion.
The debate starts acknowledging that "jealousy is not a construct".
But what about "the need for paternity certainty" being a construct ?
In particular, what about the political construct of the bourgeois family, meant to perpetuate private ownership in the capitalist system, through inheritance ?
This can be linked to feudalism too, where the pretext for the transmission of power and ownership in the aristocracy was the bloodline.
Sociology, historical materialism and feminism have stated parts of the concept of family itself being a construct, with political interests at play inside and outside of it.
Found the Marxist.
@@Chet73 Thanks. ; ) We need more of us !
@@Nalojuntu No we don’t. We’ve got enough ignorant people in the world.
He is uncomfortable saying he is okay with his wife spending the month with Drake. I call phony. What are the rules he never explains.
Lol. This is all so delusional.
"Hey, polyamory is inherently repulsive and corrosive to relationships. How I can delude myself into thinking that it's not?"
Tobias Funke would be proud.
Those biological mechanisms have outgrown their origins. Jealousy is a mechanism that does still protect relationships (partly still the original reasons, even with birth control and contraceptives there's still instances where "who's the father?" is still a unknown factor, even if the partner is in fact sterile, he is obviously not in that instance but the question still stands) but also because relationships are about intimacy. The broader categorization that includes the carnal desires but also includes more personal and core "being" questions about who you are, and a relationship is about the connection of those core bits of "being" between two people, this gives them strength but if one betrays that trust, that ruins a LOT more than people think.
But key component there of that problem is "betraying that trust". If from the outset this is something agreed upon (from all members involved, including if there are more than 2), and all parties fully understand what they are getting into or at least are willing to communicate if they don't to help figure it all out, then this potential danger is minimized and such a relationship can occur and theoretically be more rewarding than a simple monogamous one.
I've said elsewhere that the prime problems with Polygamous relationships is that things get exponentially harder to deal with in the relationship(s) the more people are involved, and such a relationship dependent on everyone in the relationship is only going to be as together as the "weakest link" (or the one with the least ability to manage their connection to the overall relationship). Which means that they will end up "dropping out" of the relationship if they can't engage as equals with everyone else, and you'll end up in a smaller (but more stable) relationship over time.
You need to learn the difference between polygamous and polyamorous because they're very different.
"Those biological mechanisms have outgrown their origins." Well said! And also I agree. Things should be stated upfront before anyone gets emotionally invested. You can't "betray" someone if they themselves agreed to the terms.
Weird question but can u do a video on Incels and dating advice for them😂😂😂😂
If you go off the premise that marriages are for the purpose of raising healthy children, then I don’t really think poly or over sexualized relationships are a net good for children. If you don’t have children poly away, but I don’t think that’s a healthy place for kids.
Laci have you ever read Sex at Dawn? If not, I highly recommend it. And you should have the Author, Dr. Christopher Ryan on the podcast.
Gosh your such a beautiful lovely lady bless you Laci 💕🙏
level up to what let your partner go f someone else lmao
Never eroticise or negotiate jealousy. Ever.
I just don’t think polyamory is good for people, generally speaking.
Wait is laci Poly?
i am not. but i think there's a lot to learn from how poly couples manage their relationships & emotions!
@@lacigreen Thanks for the clarification, appreciate it!
Doesnt matter if youre unattractive :/