I have had service writers and owners deduct time because I got my conclusions quickly, watch out for that too. If its simple like a gas cap, or something unplugged, I will call those freebies, but if because of my years of experence I get to the bottom of an issue quickly I should't be penalized.
Lol There like that was easy I could do that myself lol not thinking all the hassle it took to get there learn all the details and fails to find the problem so in the future you get same vehicle with same or similar issue you know where to start an pin point there look problem
You shouldn't be penalized for running a full diagnostic without checking simple stuff and correcting it and ACTUALLY getting paid for the work you did? So in your world a customer brings in a car and says their engine is shot and you figure out it's something simple like a spark plug, you're going to charge them for an engine replacement because you don't want to be penalized? That's pretty scummy.
@@bobvance- that's not at all what he is talking about he's saying if a vehicle comes in for an issue they charge an hour of diag time he diags and repairs in 20 minutes he should still be paid the hour u have no clue what ur talking about
Most shops are that way from what it seems. It takes a good advisor to hold their ground on getting diagnostic time. If I get a ticket that is out of warranty and has no diag, I do not touch it. Because once you do, you married that car and its current issue.
A hundred percent of the time when a customer is not happy with a diag fee, they will always feel like you are fucking them and that's why it's not even worth it to keep those customers around.... I always think to myself we have so many good customers we dont need any bad ones.
It's very interesting how different the billing and quoting works in the automotive world versus the industrial world. In industrial work, I typically quote by the day, not by the hour. Sometimes by the half day. And, I've had customers complain that they should not be paying me to learn about the system before I fix it. I say BS. Very often when I go to fix something, it's the first time I've ever seen it, or seen anything like it. If they want to call in someone who knows the system like the back of their hand, they can be my guest. I'll go home. But, they called me. I explained my experience level, if they want me to fix it they have to allow me to figure it out. Very often the equipment is old or obsolete and there is no one with first hand experience fixing it. Or the company that supports it has to fly someone in from across the country, or even across the world to fix it. It's a lot cheaper to pay me to read the service manual for 2 hours or call the service department at the manufacturer than to pay a guy to sit in an airport for 8 hours.
I never charge people based on my knowledge of their equipment. If I have to learn a completely knew system, I take the time to do it and accept that. But whenever I diagnose a problem accurately after the fact, I charge. I'm not sure what you're working on but generally speaking you should not charge people based on your lack of knowledge for any reason.
@@YuckFou0x0FFFF idk I'm with Wes on this one it's basically a matter of opinion,but if I legitimately spend an hour reading and studying a new system I'm sorry but I'm charging for it.If they wanna do the leg work and study that system and diagnose it themselves ill be glad to put the part on for them.Or take it to the dealer where they are charging 150 dollars an hour....but hey their techs supposedly know the systems....
I agree with everything in this video Mike. Technician efficiency or lack there-of is not on any customer. However, billing diag by the hour has its place. My latest video I explain a car that was brought to me after it was tampered with for 2 months and still was at square 1. All sorts of aftermarket and used parts thrown at it. A vehicle in that condition will go by the hour or I won't touch it. I explain to the customer before it is brought in and that if I find it within the first hour it is a base one hour diagnosis.
I recently had a 2013 Chrysler 300 that came in on the hook. Went out and it wouldn't crank. Had the dreaded no bus message in the cluster. Got it pushed inside and checked the DTCS. Of course, it had no comm codes in every CAN C bus module. These have two CAN C connectors that tie all the CAN C modules together. One under the passenger side dash and one in the trunk. I started at the one in the dash because these are known to have steering angle sensor issues and that's the connector it's connected to. Started with the SAS connector but that's not it. Finally, got to the electric power steering pump module and the bus came back. Of course it's the last one on that connector. Plugged it back in and the bus went down. Cool, at least I know what circuit I need to be concerned with. I'm now a little over an hour into this vehicle and that's when I should have went to the writer and told him where I was and that I needed more time to continue. But I didn't. When you're on a good roll you don't want to stop your momentum so I continued. The electric power steering module is mounted to the pump which keeps it's home inside the right front fender. If you have ever had the fascia or wheel well liners off of a Chrysler LX or LC body you probably know what a pain it is with the plastic rivets. By the time I got to the module and determined it wasn't the wiring, I am well over 2 hours deep into this thing. To get the module you have to buy the whole pump assembly. It includes the brackets, pump, reservoir, and module at a cost of $916. I quoted 3.6 hours labor. Book time on the pump assembly is 1.9 hrs so I figured since I already had it apart 1.7 for diag would be fair. I was actually excited I found the problem as quick as I did because I have had no comm issues that ended up with the whole interior torn apart and many hours across several days looking for the issue. There has been many of lost hours from jobs like that. The writer gave me some lip about the diag but he sold it. I guess what I am trying to say is to not get so tied up in the job that you don't get paid. LOL the first pump was an aftermarket reman unit and it didn't work. I had quoted an OEM assembly because there is too much that goes wrong in the aftermarket world but that's another story.
I think you’re pretty fair in your statement. You SHOULD get paid for your time. Like any profession you get paid for your knowledge. On the flip side, giving a customer a break on some of the easier diagnosis goes a long way to build both a relationship and good will. Spot on. 👍
When you make a doctor's appointment and go to the office you pay a office visit fee. As a diagnostic technician you have time energy tools schooling and experience invested in your career. That's what you're being paid for. If people don't understand that then they should just go somewhere else. Oh and good luck telling the doctor that you're not going to pay him or her the OV fee.
@@pakliv3243 so, if I spend 15,000.00 on college, 25,000.00 in tools, and countless hours away from my family.... You're saying I should work for free?
Very good video. When scanning a vehicle and seeing two codes that are two different issues that are current I will advise the customer and go from there. I agree that some issues are quick and easy and sometimes you can blend two issues into the one hour diag charge, but of course that is not always the case. I believe the worst is when a customer comes in and has multiple complaints in various systems throughout the car such as CEL is on, XM radio is inop, rear DVD player inop and there is only one hour diag authorized. I will ask what issue they want looked at first because it will be rare that all three complaints can be properly diagnosed in one hour. Then get more diag time from there. My only exception is a Duramax with a poor exhaust fluid quality message with no DTC's, guaranteed it will take minimum 2 hours to properly go through all the checks and reductant fluid quality test, gotta love em!
Mike you are on point. Diag per system. typically at my dealership we charge 1.0 hour for diag, 0.5 for like brakes/front end stuff unless more complicated/electrical , and for tracing a wire to find a short/intermittent issue ( like the door wire you did) is typically we will get pre auth for about 3-5 hrs depending on the suspected area but if its something like dash harness where the dash has to be pulled well im charging to pull the dash and if its just a wire repair at that point then the wire repair is free.
Great video I agree with everything you said biggest problem is nobody knows how to diagnose stuff just hang Parts usually my favorite is one of the parts store scan a car and a customer comes in and thinks that's what I should fix and then I tell them process and there's now a diagnosis Plus putting a part on when I find the issue oh boy now we got to fight lol good stuff flat rate master love the videos keep them coming
YES TEST DONT GUESS, we get the why do I have to pay for this or that on diag line items, and the biggest one I get is sometimes having to duplicate the problem. (I am a boat tech) and the closest public boating lake is aprox, 30 min each way. AWESOME THE WAY YOU PRESENT THE SUBJECT. KEEP EM COMING, AND HAPPY WRENCHING
Absolutely you should be charging for each code. Or a group IF they are related. Misfires may also have O2 sensor codes... that's just an example. This was something I had struggles with early on... but I think I'm doing much better. The key is to be as forthright as possible with customers because many don't understand this or why.
Totally agree! Had one last week, the costomer had no protection plan whatsoever. Did my diag and came to the conclusion of bad internal relay in the TIPM. Master tech was telling me it was the most common to fail part a little external fuse block. Once either is acclimated to vehicle it can't be returned so that would be super expensive. Do an extra diagnostic test to prove I was right and I won. Yay
I've been on both sides of the issue in my many years in the industry; service advisor and/or service manager and a tech. When I was the manager, it was set as menu pricing for the most part; 1 hr. for check engine light including rechk once the repair was completed; smoke test 1.5 hrs.; Charging system check .5 hr.; cooling check/co check .75 hr. ; Intermittent items start at 2.0 hrs.; Etc. Related multiple codes were usually bundled together in one time allowance and repairs were always seperate from the repair and as required by California Law, listed on the ro as such. We'd round times around to the nearest 1/2 for some items, i.e., misfire code check P0301, on VW/Audi of some years (and certain part numbers) was almost always a coil... Yeah, we'd get grumpy customers about the fees, but, we'd explain it's like going to the doctor; they perform tests to see what is causing the issue you have. You don't perform surgery if a medication can take care of the issue. Being fair to everyone works out the best; sometimes we've been wrong and we had to bite the bullet so to speak, but even then if we were straight with the customer 90% appreciated the fact we owned up to it and did whatever it would take to make it right.
Good information. I have salespeople that take off diagnostics all together after you turned in finished the vehicle and solved the issue... can't hold their ground, hell probably couldn't sell a life raft to a sinking boat.
I am a DIY so not terribly professional but I can relate. After spending an hour chasing ABS code on my brother’s 1997 Camry, I found one of the sensors was slightly unplugged in the first place. Of course I don’t charge my brother but if this was a shop they will have to pay the tech. Another one, same car, will not start, no crank, chased it for 30 minutes. Found starter wires corroded in the power plug, again, if this was a tech he needs to get paid even if the solution was a 30 second contact cleaner spray.
And the customer says. .. That scan tool tells you what part to replace..even google told me because i have the same code. I shouldnt have to buy that scan tool. Best way to weed out customers ....service writers let them know they will pay for services.
Agree to everything you said! I work at a low staffed independent shop that’s very fast paced because of the amount of work we have. A co worker always uses indentifix as you said “well that’s what it says so I’m gonna change that part” without doing any testing of the sort. Love the program but hate lazy people!
Do you ever get those customers where you tell them a certain price and they agree to it. Then when you fix it in 15 minutes and they think the price should be cheaper.
The problem with your logic is that the customer agreed to pay a certain price based on the information given. If I'm told that the bill is high because it requires 14 hours then you're damn right I'll be upset when I find out it only takes 8.
Culture today is a instant gratification they want it right now and Billy Bob online said it should cost $50 to fix it. They want it for the lowest price but the most work done for free. Nothing is FREE and it is going to cost money to fix it right.
Not a mechanic just work on my own stuff perspective. The diagnostic is what is worth the most to me. If I can pay someone to tell me what is broken (saving me a lot of time and money) that's great. If the shop is not charging for that I look like a jerk when I want to put the parts on myself.
Yes you do, but if you tell the service writer up front you just want diag and will install yourself... you will probably be charged a diag, but when thats happens to me I grab the customer and show him the tests I am doing and try to spread the knowledge. I like to help people that have the willingness to do things for themselfs. You'd be suspreised how hany mechanics would do the same.
I agree also if the codes are separate different systems they should be charged for each system especially if they brought the car in for something specific but in the process of doing the scan other faults are found that could be resolved accordingly but the customer has to be informed as far as what there situation is and options are available from the start without finding out further down the road when the information could be communicated from the beginning so that a understanding can be established
I charge based on how many individual problems sources there are. The number of codes is irrelevant. Due to the complexity and variation in OBD systems, there can be virtually any number of codes for virtually any number of problem sources. One vehicle might show 4 codes caused by one problem source where another vehicle might only show 1 code caused by multiple problems. Of course, at the end of the day, what really matters is accuracy. The last thing you should do is guess. If you're in this field, then you know that unique feeling of confidence that hits when you've identified the problem source. If you do not or cannot reach that point of confidence, then you should not claim to have diagnosed the problem. Most customers will be more than happy to pay for _accurate_ diagnostics, but no one likes paying to be mislead.
So I work at a Hyundai dealer and one of my coworkers had 2 pages of diag that the writer sold for 1h ( our diag fee of 130$) and the tech crunched some numbers and it came out that he would only spend 4min per concern. The shop foreman agreed with the tech and told him to do it like that. The experiance was on his side so he was right on everything that he sold, but the service writer was not happy when the tech said he will only spend 4 min per concern.🤣
@@scallen3841 Its not about making that money, most tech are under paid. It's about getting a fair wage for the amount of time and knowledge and investment needed to correcty repair a car. Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.
Up until the 4:00 mark I was yelling at my phone about wiring shorts. Wiring shorts are Pandora’s boxes. Sometimes they take hours. My policy is that when I charge for diag I stand by it. If I’m wrong, I eat it.
Exactly, TEST DON'T GUESS!! Ppl argue about paying diag fees....I tell them, Sure, you can go turn a wrench on a bolt,....but I know what wrench to turn on which bolt. Knowledge isn't free and no-one gave me my diag tools either!
Eagles Landing Auto Spa … Stockbridge GA 30281 . . . I manage this shop, and just wanted to add it is sometimes difficult as said to charge MAINLY due to customer not wanting to pay to have diagnostic work performed... along with the customer not wanting to pay the price for the repair. Wrapped all into one, customers wants CHEAP. The love/hate of diagnostic labor
Great Video FRM 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😀👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Diagnosis is Not Easy Therefore it Should Not Be Free As You Stated If It Only Took 15 Min To Diagnose A Reasonable Compromise On Time Is Acceptable To Be Fair to The Technician 👨🏼🔧 and The Customers 🧰👨🏼🔧🧰
If it’s something small no matter what code it’s 1hr $65 but for a large odd problem will change in the rare case more hours will change max 2 hrs max. Rare to take over 2 hr but I have one right now no power at relay or fuse. My gut say it’s not pcm though so will see.
Imagine you get a cár which was nôt fixed in 3 diferent shops and spent hundreds on it.. Now you look at it find the problém in half an hour.. You going to charge 1hour labour? Customer should bé told to pay fixed diag fee of 6hours plus repair cost. If nôt happy then carry on going from garage to garage. There are many many cars almost no garage can fix.
Sir I agree with you completely. For me a dealership has ruined working flat Rate for me. That is why I hot into fleet work. Its has its issues too, but I don't have to worry about pay. As in auto parts doing " parking lot diagnostics. I think it's unfair to the customer. They want to sell parts, not caring for accurate diagnosis.
I'm not a diagnostician guy but I'm getting better with it i started learning how to use my scope better and figure out system communications, power probe/test light and dvom skills I'm very good with but always lacked scope skills it's a process but I have 3 cars at home to practice with all need lots of work
Arrjay Martin...no it’s not. it’s flat rate. It’s one pay hour for the technician,not one billed hour to the customer. The customer is billed a flat rate diagnostic fee for the job.
Well, shouldn't it be said 'this job is $x'... Not 'this was a 3 hour job (really 20 minutes, working on 8 cars at a time, all charging them for 3 hours... So charging 24 hours worth of work for really 3 hours total work?
Deere will pay warranty diag time as long as you are certified on the specific machine you're working on. Whatever it takes they'll pay, within reason with proper documentation. Repair they pay 100 percent. Whatever it takes is what you get paid.
That's tough though. The shop owner would be the one taking the hit. You can't ask an employee to work for free, even if they did everything wrong. You'd be in major legal trouble. Just like a shop owner "docking pay" or asking employees to pay for parts that didn't fix the problem. That's illegal and IMO very wrong.
im in the very beginning stages of learning about fuse box and understanding things that can be the issue, but does it boil down to simply narrowing it down to 4 things? AUTO SHUT DOWN, Fuel Pump, Starter and transmission circuits? seems they have clear path to rule out all of them with simple tricks, even like turning the key to the ON and ACCESORY positions and turning on wipers and or mirrors, that alone says the IGnition switch is working. even taking off the MAP the care should stall. im seeing that every one of these have a quick diagnosis, even to take off the negative battery cable, then use MULIT METER to connect one end to battery negative post and other end to negative cable you just pulled off. measure AMPS while pulling out these 4 fuses, AUTOSHUT DOWN, FUEL PUMP, STARTER AND TRANS. doesnt that alone rule some of them out? seems crazy how 1 million videos out here trying to explain diagrams and thousands of videos showing the same thing
If it takes me 5 minutes or 59 minutes I always charge for an hour don't do nothing for free because it did not come free to you lot of people think you have to do free stuff to get their business I've been in it long enough to notice which customers will pay and not pay or customers that think they can rip you off because they don't think you did anything to find out what's wrong with it
That's why it's hard to be in this kind of business because of people like that and I go in debt and show the customer exactly what's going on record everything what's going on with their vehicle 9 times out of 10 I get the customers that got ripped off by other technicians at other shops and they always come back and say dang they never told me exactly what was going on just tell me what I need replaced
And the sad part is I have a full-time job as a diesel mechanic and started couple years ago as a hobby here at the house and it turned into a full-time job and it's sad part is I'm getting so much business that I get regular shops in town calling me and asking me if I'm working on stuff they have worked on and another sad part is I self taught myself with everything I've done
Depends on what shop several of them I've known for years I'll joke with him and say they've tried to rest now try the best LOL and several of them tried to offer me decent pay to go work for them but I enjoy doing it alone at my shop at the house but it's getting to a point I have to decide if I want to do it full-time and quit my regular job haven't had the courage to do it yet because that's a big leap
For me when I am doing work. Electrical I change straight time! Min 1 hour. Then I charge 40 to do a scan and if I get the work then I eat the scan then I have the diag charge. At most 2 hours. Seeing that I have low overhead at most is still less then 1 hour of a dealership.
If my diagnosis was incorrect and parts got replaced that didn't fix the problem, what happens then? Do I refund my diagnostic fee? Who pays for the parts and labor that didn't fix the problem?
Guys that know what they are doing hardly ever mis a diag. But it does happen. My experence is most good techs will stop at a point and say, do you want to pay me more diag for a 100% answer, or stop here and replace what is 85% likely wrong? But most often the shop will eat the cost if a diag is off the mark. Example: today I got a hemi in with a low oil pressure light on. I told the service writer, if they want to replace the switch, which is probably the problem, don't pay me diag. But if they want me to hook up a mechanical gauge I need my hour. They picked the switch, and it fixed the problem.
i work at a dealership. warranty times aside. they usually will only charge 1.0 for a list of problems.... how ever if the car needs to be torn apart for a wire or to locate a module we stop and won't touch the car until they get more time. I've heard of a Cadillac dealership near me charge an hour per line for diag. not sure if thats true, but again like you said some diags take 10 minutes and sometimes you can diagnose the whole car in 1.0. where i struggle is our shop refuses to buy any other service information other than the basic alldata subscription. their response is just google it... so when i can't find what i need i ship the car and make them pay me internally for my time. Now one for shot gunning parts at a car. I had a 17 Impala with 12k on it had 2 heater circuit codes stored in it. i shot gunned a 02 sensor at it. when i went to verify the repair it wasn't the 02 sensor. It ended up being the ecm reading faulty data said it was pulling 8.24 ma with the sensor unplugged, plugged in. whether or not that was a software anomaly it had the latest calibration. the ecm fixed it. Also as for a customer coming in with a part or requesting a part replace we will tell them if it doesn't fix it you will need to pay diag, we will replace the part, clear the code and if it comes back its on you.
Where would you recommend I send a technician that is inefficient at diagnosis? If I tell him to swap this engine or transmission into this car he's always hours ahead of all data, but when it comes to diagnosing electrical issues he seems to struggle. Are there online courses I can pay for or places around to send him to? Thanks in advance flat rate master....as a shop owner...your advice is kindly appreciated.
Had one you guys diagnosed come in recently for a second opinion,you were right on the money with the eccentric shaft diag.😉,they cheaped out on the repair though so we both lost that one
I believe the fair way to do it is to have an upfront diagnostic fee per car, not per problem/code. Plus, how do you know how many codes it has prior to starting the diagnosis? A flat fee will likely ensure that you have a knowledgeable tech working on it, otherwise he/she will be losing hours with a slow diagnosis. Diagnosis should also be separate from the repair. Just my thoughts...
The problem is that one car may have a missing gas cap. Then the next will have 19 codes covering nearly every system. The cap would take more time to pull the car in and out than diagnosis. The 19 codes could take multiple days. Yes I had a car with 19 codes come in.
This is what is killing the profession. An Hvac guy works on Hvac, a plumber works on plumbing, an electrican works on.... you get my point. Mechanics are expected to be experts on cars, but people dont realize cars have many systems, just like your home. You call people to work on each system of your home but expect one guy to check each system of your car for one flat rate?????? Nope, that is not how it works. If you come in with a p0106 map performance, a c0041 right front speed sensor range performance code, and a b1b06 squib 2 open circut driver restraint module and are expecting one flat rate.... lol good luck.
Ball Zach - The tricky part is paying a good troubleshooter what he or she is worth and not paying an an unskilled or poor troubleshooter by the hour. I hear what you are saying about the skills needed to troubleshoot a vehicle though. Most people don’t grasp how complex cars are now.
@@montestu5502 I am a diagnostic technician. My job is to get correct answers quickly, so this subject is a touchy one for me. It took me 18 years to get here. Now every shop has a low skilled parts guy, but every shop I have ever worked at or known of also has atleast 1 high skilled diag. You may have the low skilled guy working on your car but the high skilled guy isn't going to let him or the shop get in trouble. So in my previous example I mentioned 3 non over lapping problems. I think 3 hours charged is fair. The low skilled guy may spend 6 or 7 hour on it. The high skilled guy may get it figured out in 1 hour, but he is high skilled. Now if the shop charges the customer 3 hours and sells stuff that doesn't fix it, run away from that shop. Customers also have to do their part in finding a good shop. Hell reviews are everywhere. Check the shop out before you commit.
We should get paid something .5 to 1.0 per different complaint on a separate line period. No $$$ diagnostic , I skip the line or just straight up guess if I really have too. I've gone down this road with my service manager, general manager, human resources . We get paid flat rate so every job should pay something. I've made it clear that I dont work for free so if it's not warranty, or customer pay then it's a internal pay or vice versa, I dont care who pays! But someone has to pay. If the service manager /advisor wants to give up my diagnostic for free or not pay me what I'm entitled to I walk up to my hr office and tell her this is wage theft and if I have to I call the labor board. It took them awhile to learn that they cant screw me over on hours and gets a bit awkward after the call but they have to understand that I'm not a slave there volunteering. For free bulshit work at my shop it goes to the apprentices/ hourly workers now. It's a struggle everyday still but I have to stick to guns .If you want to get paid flatrate at a dealer you have to be strong and dont give in to the advisors begging you for a deal. I'm getting tired of doing this but if you don't make care of your hours ie flagging them at the end of the day the advisors always RIP you off. Trust me, if you dont check give it a shot for 2 weeks , I bet you will lose 10 hours that the advisors forget to pay you.....
I PERSONALLY THINK THIS IS TOTALLY OFF. THATS LIKE A CHEF CHARGING 45$ EXTRA TO NOT ADD SALT BECAUSE NOT ON ORIGINAL RECIPE. OF A CIGAR ROLLER ADDING 100$ TO ADD A LEAF CUZ YOU LIJE IT THAT WAY. ITS YOUR JOB. JUST DO IT AND SHUT UP!
Do you still charge a diagnostic fee when the customer tells you what's wrong? I've ran into this before when I tell the dealership exactly what's wrong and they still charge me a fee lol. But most of the time the customer is wrong so I get it.
Short answer yes, if you tell me it is a particular part and i just take your word for it and replace it, then the car still has the problem, who is the bad guy? I would rather double check and charge a fee than replace a part that you cannot return and still have to charge for diagnostics and another part that was the actual failure.
Also, no, if you tell me that it's a coil or a spark plug and i can easily verify it, then i won't charge you much, if anything at all, due to how i just had to check one component.
I've seen shops tell the customer they can change the part or do a diagnosis. If they are told to change the part and that doesn't fix it they are still paying for it. If they are paid to diagnose and it doesn't fix it they aren't paying. Sometimes that still turns into an argument.
What you do when the customer tells you this part is bad change it is you don't ask questions, you don't test anything, you just change it and charge them for the part and labor. No guarantee of anything. Then if it doesn't fix it its their problem.
I just chatge a shit load. I let them know its probably going to be thousands $ . Im not going to retire broke like all mechanics. Uck the bullshit !!!
seems like simple greed. all the yabba yabba yabba do talk. bottom line how much you charge per hour? by now you dont have this mastered how to simply find if it is the fuel pump or its circuit by probing a few grounds and powers? even with pin out boxes and load pro and somehow diagnosing wiring is a skill? wth on earth
It's not because It can be something else even if you think you fixed it you need to verify that you fixed it so I take the rest of the time to confirm the fix
What about the job that only paid one hour but may have taken the mechanic two or three because of unforseen problems, like a failed part or rusted seized bolts and the customer only pays for that one hour, then is it fraud?
The per hour method is used on some rear cases where the problem is obscure like a parasitic draw can be sold on that principle. One of my coworkers did a 4h diag on a parasitic draw that was in the rear driver door. So it depends on the issue
@@ArjayMartin A small electrical drain. Usually a nuisance until it drains the battery or starts messing with system voltage. It can be caused by nearly anything going bad. Even a wire may rub through causing an intermittent problem. They are notorious for being hard to find.
Im sure many many many noob flat rate techs would would love for you to pay them per hour. Im not sure if you know this but the average salary for an automotive technicin is right around 38k per year. Trust me no one is getting rich changing out your sienna vans lower control arms bro.
Your diagnostic should be part of your hours only, cost of your materials and instruments are nothing to do with us. Like your miscellaneous charges are nothing but a gratuity fee like restaurants . When I go and buy a pair of pants they don’t charge me a fee for using their adding machine or heat for the building on and on. To hook up the machine to the vehicle and fix it all in 1 hour it took you is all you should charge, if it takes extra charge extra. If I get a haircut they don’t charge extra to clean floor or wash combs, or wear and tear on chairs, blowers, on and on
Hooking up a scan tool/code reader does not make you a Rocket Scientist, At All, Ever! And thinking that you as a "tech" have the only answer to a problem...Laughable. Without your precious scan tool, you'd be as sure of yourself as your "Customers" that: you like to portray as complete morons. You're paid too much, be it flat rate or hourly. A mechanic thinking that because they bought a tool created,designed,and sold to solve automotive "tech" problems by another human being makes them a "Tech"... Is like a person buying a calculator and proclaiming themselves as a Mathematical Genius because they have a Calculator.
I have had service writers and owners deduct time because I got my conclusions quickly, watch out for that too. If its simple like a gas cap, or something unplugged, I will call those freebies, but if because of my years of experence I get to the bottom of an issue quickly I should't be penalized.
Lol There like that was easy I could do that myself lol not thinking all the hassle it took to get there learn all the details and fails to find the problem so in the future you get same vehicle with same or similar issue you know where to start an pin point there look problem
You shouldn't be penalized for running a full diagnostic without checking simple stuff and correcting it and ACTUALLY getting paid for the work you did?
So in your world a customer brings in a car and says their engine is shot and you figure out it's something simple like a spark plug, you're going to charge them for an engine replacement because you don't want to be penalized?
That's pretty scummy.
@@bobvance- that's not at all what he is talking about he's saying if a vehicle comes in for an issue they charge an hour of diag time he diags and repairs in 20 minutes he should still be paid the hour u have no clue what ur talking about
We struggle to get customers to pay diagnostic, our service advisors need to learn to stop caving into aggressive people.
We live in a society that wants it all , as cheap as possible . And if they don't get that , they cry like bitch's till they do .
Most shops are that way from what it seems. It takes a good advisor to hold their ground on getting diagnostic time. If I get a ticket that is out of warranty and has no diag, I do not touch it. Because once you do, you married that car and its current issue.
Amen. If you can't agree to pay the technician for his time and knowledge to correctly identify an issue, you are not my customer!
First thing always to do is tell customer up front you charge for diag, that will separate your bad customers from the good.
You're 💯 % right...
truth
Amen. If they don’t want to pay diag, they aren’t going to like the quote for repairs either.
A hundred percent of the time when a customer is not happy with a diag fee, they will always feel like you are fucking them and that's why it's not even worth it to keep those customers around.... I always think to myself we have so many good customers we dont need any bad ones.
It's very interesting how different the billing and quoting works in the automotive world versus the industrial world. In industrial work, I typically quote by the day, not by the hour. Sometimes by the half day. And, I've had customers complain that they should not be paying me to learn about the system before I fix it. I say BS. Very often when I go to fix something, it's the first time I've ever seen it, or seen anything like it. If they want to call in someone who knows the system like the back of their hand, they can be my guest. I'll go home. But, they called me. I explained my experience level, if they want me to fix it they have to allow me to figure it out. Very often the equipment is old or obsolete and there is no one with first hand experience fixing it. Or the company that supports it has to fly someone in from across the country, or even across the world to fix it. It's a lot cheaper to pay me to read the service manual for 2 hours or call the service department at the manufacturer than to pay a guy to sit in an airport for 8 hours.
I never charge people based on my knowledge of their equipment. If I have to learn a completely knew system, I take the time to do it and accept that. But whenever I diagnose a problem accurately after the fact, I charge. I'm not sure what you're working on but generally speaking you should not charge people based on your lack of knowledge for any reason.
@@YuckFou0x0FFFF idk I'm with Wes on this one it's basically a matter of opinion,but if I legitimately spend an hour reading and studying a new system I'm sorry but I'm charging for it.If they wanna do the leg work and study that system and diagnose it themselves ill be glad to put the part on for them.Or take it to the dealer where they are charging 150 dollars an hour....but hey their techs supposedly know the systems....
I agree with everything in this video Mike. Technician efficiency or lack there-of is not on any customer. However, billing diag by the hour has its place. My latest video I explain a car that was brought to me after it was tampered with for 2 months and still was at square 1. All sorts of aftermarket and used parts thrown at it. A vehicle in that condition will go by the hour or I won't touch it. I explain to the customer before it is brought in and that if I find it within the first hour it is a base one hour diagnosis.
I recently had a 2013 Chrysler 300 that came in on the hook. Went out and it wouldn't crank. Had the dreaded no bus message in the cluster. Got it pushed inside and checked the DTCS. Of course, it had no comm codes in every CAN C bus module. These have two CAN C connectors that tie all the CAN C modules together. One under the passenger side dash and one in the trunk. I started at the one in the dash because these are known to have steering angle sensor issues and that's the connector it's connected to. Started with the SAS connector but that's not it. Finally, got to the electric power steering pump module and the bus came back. Of course it's the last one on that connector. Plugged it back in and the bus went down. Cool, at least I know what circuit I need to be concerned with. I'm now a little over an hour into this vehicle and that's when I should have went to the writer and told him where I was and that I needed more time to continue. But I didn't. When you're on a good roll you don't want to stop your momentum so I continued. The electric power steering module is mounted to the pump which keeps it's home inside the right front fender. If you have ever had the fascia or wheel well liners off of a Chrysler LX or LC body you probably know what a pain it is with the plastic rivets. By the time I got to the module and determined it wasn't the wiring, I am well over 2 hours deep into this thing. To get the module you have to buy the whole pump assembly. It includes the brackets, pump, reservoir, and module at a cost of $916. I quoted 3.6 hours labor. Book time on the pump assembly is 1.9 hrs so I figured since I already had it apart 1.7 for diag would be fair. I was actually excited I found the problem as quick as I did because I have had no comm issues that ended up with the whole interior torn apart and many hours across several days looking for the issue. There has been many of lost hours from jobs like that. The writer gave me some lip about the diag but he sold it. I guess what I am trying to say is to not get so tied up in the job that you don't get paid.
LOL the first pump was an aftermarket reman unit and it didn't work. I had quoted an OEM assembly because there is too much that goes wrong in the aftermarket world but that's another story.
I think you’re pretty fair in your statement. You SHOULD get paid for your time. Like any profession you get paid for your knowledge. On the flip side, giving a customer a break on some of the easier diagnosis goes a long way to build both a relationship and good will. Spot on. 👍
When you make a doctor's appointment and go to the office you pay a office visit fee.
As a diagnostic technician you have time energy tools schooling and experience invested in your career.
That's what you're being paid for.
If people don't understand that then they should just go somewhere else.
Oh and good luck telling the doctor that you're not going to pay him or her the OV fee.
Sir U are NOT a Doctor .. Mechanic is UN license works ... Come man
@@pakliv3243 license or not, it's a fair analogy.
@@pakliv3243 You either have a shitty mechanic, or have no idea what your talking about.
@@pakliv3243 so, if I spend 15,000.00 on college, 25,000.00 in tools, and countless hours away from my family.... You're saying I should work for free?
Very good video. When scanning a vehicle and seeing two codes that are two different issues that are current I will advise the customer and go from there. I agree that some issues are quick and easy and sometimes you can blend two issues into the one hour diag charge, but of course that is not always the case. I believe the worst is when a customer comes in and has multiple complaints in various systems throughout the car such as CEL is on, XM radio is inop, rear DVD player inop and there is only one hour diag authorized. I will ask what issue they want looked at first because it will be rare that all three complaints can be properly diagnosed in one hour. Then get more diag time from there. My only exception is a Duramax with a poor exhaust fluid quality message with no DTC's, guaranteed it will take minimum 2 hours to properly go through all the checks and reductant fluid quality test, gotta love em!
Mike you are on point. Diag per system. typically at my dealership we charge 1.0 hour for diag, 0.5 for like brakes/front end stuff unless more complicated/electrical , and for tracing a wire to find a short/intermittent issue ( like the door wire you did) is typically we will get pre auth for about 3-5 hrs depending on the suspected area but if its something like dash harness where the dash has to be pulled well im charging to pull the dash and if its just a wire repair at that point then the wire repair is free.
Great video I agree with everything you said biggest problem is nobody knows how to diagnose stuff just hang Parts usually my favorite is one of the parts store scan a car and a customer comes in and thinks that's what I should fix and then I tell them process and there's now a diagnosis Plus putting a part on when I find the issue oh boy now we got to fight lol good stuff flat rate master love the videos keep them coming
CP the tool addict
live through that scenario a whole bunch
@@frankmuhammad9660 the struggle is real
100% Very well said and that's fair to the tech, the shop, and the customer.
I'm watching all the way from South Africa, Thank you for the vid, I'm so glad serious considering car diagnosis as a side income.
You hit the nail on the head with this topic
YES TEST DONT GUESS, we get the why do I have to pay for this or that on diag line items, and the biggest one I get is sometimes having to duplicate the problem. (I am a boat tech) and the closest public boating lake is aprox, 30 min each way. AWESOME THE WAY YOU PRESENT THE SUBJECT. KEEP EM COMING, AND HAPPY WRENCHING
Absolutely you should be charging for each code. Or a group IF they are related. Misfires may also have O2 sensor codes... that's just an example. This was something I had struggles with early on... but I think I'm doing much better. The key is to be as forthright as possible with customers because many don't understand this or why.
What’s up with the parts counter Diag???
Boy oh boy!! That can be rough with the customer who is trying to save that buck.
Totally agree! Had one last week, the costomer had no protection plan whatsoever. Did my diag and came to the conclusion of bad internal relay in the TIPM. Master tech was telling me it was the most common to fail part a little external fuse block. Once either is acclimated to vehicle it can't be returned so that would be super expensive. Do an extra diagnostic test to prove I was right and I won. Yay
Mike you throw those invisible parts like a star quarterback. 😁
I've been on both sides of the issue in my many years in the industry; service advisor and/or service manager and a tech. When I was the manager, it was set as menu pricing for the most part; 1 hr. for check engine light including rechk once the repair was completed; smoke test 1.5 hrs.; Charging system check .5 hr.; cooling check/co check .75 hr. ; Intermittent items start at 2.0 hrs.; Etc.
Related multiple codes were usually bundled together in one time allowance and repairs were always seperate from the repair and as required by California Law, listed on the ro as such. We'd round times around to the nearest 1/2 for some items, i.e., misfire code check P0301, on VW/Audi of some years (and certain part numbers) was almost always a coil...
Yeah, we'd get grumpy customers about the fees, but, we'd explain it's like going to the doctor; they perform tests to see what is causing the issue you have. You don't perform surgery if a medication can take care of the issue. Being fair to everyone works out the best; sometimes we've been wrong and we had to bite the bullet so to speak, but even then if we were straight with the customer 90% appreciated the fact we owned up to it and did whatever it would take to make it right.
This is always a touchy subject, but you covered it well.
Good information. I have salespeople that take off diagnostics all together after you turned in finished the vehicle and solved the issue... can't hold their ground, hell probably couldn't sell a life raft to a sinking boat.
Knowledge and time isn’t free
I am a DIY so not terribly professional but I can relate. After spending an hour chasing ABS code on my brother’s 1997 Camry, I found one of the sensors was slightly unplugged in the first place. Of course I don’t charge my brother but if this was a shop they will have to pay the tech. Another one, same car, will not start, no crank, chased it for 30 minutes. Found starter wires corroded in the power plug, again, if this was a tech he needs to get paid even if the solution was a 30 second contact cleaner spray.
And the customer says. .. That scan tool tells you what part to replace..even google told me because i have the same code. I shouldnt have to buy that scan tool. Best way to weed out customers ....service writers let them know they will pay for services.
On electrical work a majority of time is spent on diagnostic. It’s a whole different ball game that is why I charge per job instead of flat rate.
Agree to everything you said! I work at a low staffed independent shop that’s very fast paced because of the amount of work we have. A co worker always uses indentifix as you said “well that’s what it says so I’m gonna change that part” without doing any testing of the sort. Love the program but hate lazy people!
Do you ever get those customers where you tell them a certain price and they agree to it. Then when you fix it in 15 minutes and they think the price should be cheaper.
The problem with your logic is that the customer agreed to pay a certain price based on the information given. If I'm told that the bill is high because it requires 14 hours then you're damn right I'll be upset when I find out it only takes 8.
Culture today is a instant gratification they want it right now and Billy Bob online said it should cost $50 to fix it. They want it for the lowest price but the most work done for free. Nothing is FREE and it is going to cost money to fix it right.
Not a mechanic just work on my own stuff perspective. The diagnostic is what is worth the most to me. If I can pay someone to tell me what is broken (saving me a lot of time and money) that's great. If the shop is not charging for that I look like a jerk when I want to put the parts on myself.
Yes you do, but if you tell the service writer up front you just want diag and will install yourself... you will probably be charged a diag, but when thats happens to me I grab the customer and show him the tests I am doing and try to spread the knowledge. I like to help people that have the willingness to do things for themselfs. You'd be suspreised how hany mechanics would do the same.
@@zach914v8 you sir are a good man!
I agree also if the codes are separate different systems they should be charged for each system especially if they brought the car in for something specific but in the process of doing the scan other faults are found that could be resolved accordingly but the customer has to be informed as far as what there situation is and options are available from the start without finding out further down the road when the information could be communicated from the beginning so that a understanding can be established
I charge based on how many individual problems sources there are. The number of codes is irrelevant. Due to the complexity and variation in OBD systems, there can be virtually any number of codes for virtually any number of problem sources. One vehicle might show 4 codes caused by one problem source where another vehicle might only show 1 code caused by multiple problems.
Of course, at the end of the day, what really matters is accuracy. The last thing you should do is guess. If you're in this field, then you know that unique feeling of confidence that hits when you've identified the problem source. If you do not or cannot reach that point of confidence, then you should not claim to have diagnosed the problem. Most customers will be more than happy to pay for _accurate_ diagnostics, but no one likes paying to be mislead.
So I work at a Hyundai dealer and one of my coworkers had 2 pages of diag that the writer sold for 1h ( our diag fee of 130$) and the tech crunched some numbers and it came out that he would only spend 4min per concern. The shop foreman agreed with the tech and told him to do it like that. The experiance was on his side so he was right on everything that he sold, but the service writer was not happy when the tech said he will only spend 4 min per concern.🤣
It's all about making that money
@@scallen3841 Its not about making that money, most tech are under paid. It's about getting a fair wage for the amount of time and knowledge and investment needed to correcty repair a car. Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.
Up until the 4:00 mark I was yelling at my phone about wiring shorts. Wiring shorts are Pandora’s boxes. Sometimes they take hours.
My policy is that when I charge for diag I stand by it. If I’m wrong, I eat it.
1.5 for a smoke test.....sweet!!
Exactly, TEST DON'T GUESS!! Ppl argue about paying diag fees....I tell them, Sure, you can go turn a wrench on a bolt,....but I know what wrench to turn on which bolt. Knowledge isn't free and no-one gave me my diag tools either!
Eagles Landing Auto Spa … Stockbridge GA 30281 . . . I manage this shop, and just wanted to add it is sometimes difficult as said to charge MAINLY due to customer not wanting to pay to have diagnostic work performed... along with the customer not wanting to pay the price for the repair. Wrapped all into one, customers wants CHEAP. The love/hate of diagnostic labor
I also keep a white board in my waiting room with parts store diag. hits and misses.
Great Video FRM 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😀👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Diagnosis is Not Easy Therefore it Should Not Be Free As You Stated If It Only Took 15 Min To Diagnose A Reasonable Compromise On Time Is Acceptable To Be Fair to The Technician 👨🏼🔧 and The Customers 🧰👨🏼🔧🧰
Good information/opinion Mike.
If it’s something small no matter what code it’s 1hr $65 but for a large odd problem will change in the rare case more hours will change max 2 hrs max. Rare to take over 2 hr but I have one right now no power at relay or fuse. My gut say it’s not pcm though so will see.
I love it when my customers don't want to pay for diag. because the parts store already did it and that didn't fix the car.
I totally agree with this assessment of the way charges should be handled.
Imagine you get a cár which was nôt fixed in 3 diferent shops and spent hundreds on it.. Now you look at it find the problém in half an hour.. You going to charge 1hour labour? Customer should bé told to pay fixed diag fee of 6hours plus repair cost. If nôt happy then carry on going from garage to garage. There are many many cars almost no garage can fix.
Sir I agree with you completely. For me a dealership has ruined working flat Rate for me. That is why I hot into fleet work. Its has its issues too, but I don't have to worry about pay. As in auto parts doing " parking lot diagnostics. I think it's unfair to the customer. They want to sell parts, not caring for accurate diagnosis.
$99 1.5hrs no matter how many codes where I work. It takes half a day to get them to even charge an extra hour on tough jobs.
Most shops in my area are $60/hr minimum 1 hour then it's around 15/hr after that. Most techs in the area can narrow down most problems in that hour
You hit all of the nails on the head. I agree with everything that you said.
😁
I get paid for what I know not what I do ! Knowledge isn't cheap
I wish Doctors were held to the same standard as Technicians in their diagnostics and comebacks lol
Diagnostics are most important... saves you from shooting the parts cannon at a car. 👍🏻
Never EVER heard a UA-camr ask for a thumbs down before. Also don't know why there were 18 thumbs down in the first place.
Most shop charge a 1 hour for Diagnostics. If a lot of codes should be more than a hour.
Should keep customer in the loop what going on.
What if a vehicle comes in with 3 separate complaints.
Suspension noise
Check engine light
A/c complaint
You have to charge a diag with the price of tools today and to many people wanting a diagnostic for free so they can make the repairs themselves.
I'm not a diagnostician guy but I'm getting better with it i started learning how to use my scope better and figure out system communications,
power probe/test light and dvom skills I'm very good with but always lacked scope skills it's a process but I have 3 cars at home to practice with all need lots of work
Lmao that thumbnail is priceless @Flatratemaster
Arrjay Martin...no it’s not. it’s flat rate. It’s one pay hour for the technician,not one billed hour to the customer. The customer is billed a flat rate diagnostic fee for the job.
Well, shouldn't it be said 'this job is $x'... Not 'this was a 3 hour job (really 20 minutes, working on 8 cars at a time, all charging them for 3 hours... So charging 24 hours worth of work for really 3 hours total work?
You got it right for the most part, but some sh*t writers want it all for 1hr diag
Deere will pay warranty diag time as long as you are certified on the specific machine you're working on. Whatever it takes they'll pay, within reason with proper documentation. Repair they pay 100 percent. Whatever it takes is what you get paid.
Great video!!! Sick of tool videos from EVERYONE!
A money back guarantee on diag would weed out any parts cannon techs.
That's tough though. The shop owner would be the one taking the hit. You can't ask an employee to work for free, even if they did everything wrong. You'd be in major legal trouble. Just like a shop owner "docking pay" or asking employees to pay for parts that didn't fix the problem. That's illegal and IMO very wrong.
Always takes 15 minutes at a minimum. Up to 1.5 hours
im in the very beginning stages of learning about fuse box and understanding things that can be the issue, but does it boil down to simply narrowing it down to 4 things? AUTO SHUT DOWN, Fuel Pump, Starter and transmission circuits? seems they have clear path to rule out all of them with simple tricks, even like turning the key to the ON and ACCESORY positions and turning on wipers and or mirrors, that alone says the IGnition switch is working. even taking off the MAP the care should stall. im seeing that every one of these have a quick diagnosis, even to take off the negative battery cable, then use MULIT METER to connect one end to battery negative post and other end to negative cable you just pulled off. measure AMPS while pulling out these 4 fuses, AUTOSHUT DOWN, FUEL PUMP, STARTER AND TRANS. doesnt that alone rule some of them out? seems crazy how 1 million videos out here trying to explain diagrams and thousands of videos showing the same thing
If it takes me 5 minutes or 59 minutes I always charge for an hour don't do nothing for free because it did not come free to you lot of people think you have to do free stuff to get their business I've been in it long enough to notice which customers will pay and not pay or customers that think they can rip you off because they don't think you did anything to find out what's wrong with it
That's why it's hard to be in this kind of business because of people like that and I go in debt and show the customer exactly what's going on record everything what's going on with their vehicle 9 times out of 10 I get the customers that got ripped off by other technicians at other shops and they always come back and say dang they never told me exactly what was going on just tell me what I need replaced
And the sad part is I have a full-time job as a diesel mechanic and started couple years ago as a hobby here at the house and it turned into a full-time job and it's sad part is I'm getting so much business that I get regular shops in town calling me and asking me if I'm working on stuff they have worked on and another sad part is I self taught myself with everything I've done
@@richardchaney886 I'm curious, what do you tell the other shops who call you and ask if you are working on stuff that they had worked on?
Depends on what shop several of them I've known for years I'll joke with him and say they've tried to rest now try the best LOL and several of them tried to offer me decent pay to go work for them but I enjoy doing it alone at my shop at the house but it's getting to a point I have to decide if I want to do it full-time and quit my regular job haven't had the courage to do it yet because that's a big leap
For me when I am doing work. Electrical I change straight time! Min 1 hour. Then I charge 40 to do a scan and if I get the work then I eat the scan then I have the diag charge. At most 2 hours. Seeing that I have low overhead at most is still less then 1 hour of a dealership.
100% agree to all you said great video 👍
Amen couldn’t agree more.
It's a service. Service's get billed.. period
If my diagnosis was incorrect and parts got replaced that didn't fix the problem, what happens then? Do I refund my diagnostic fee? Who pays for the parts and labor that didn't fix the problem?
The shop
Guys that know what they are doing hardly ever mis a diag. But it does happen. My experence is most good techs will stop at a point and say, do you want to pay me more diag for a 100% answer, or stop here and replace what is 85% likely wrong? But most often the shop will eat the cost if a diag is off the mark. Example: today I got a hemi in with a low oil pressure light on. I told the service writer, if they want to replace the switch, which is probably the problem, don't pay me diag. But if they want me to hook up a mechanical gauge I need my hour. They picked the switch, and it fixed the problem.
i work at a dealership. warranty times aside. they usually will only charge 1.0 for a list of problems.... how ever if the car needs to be torn apart for a wire or to locate a module we stop and won't touch the car until they get more time. I've heard of a Cadillac dealership near me charge an hour per line for diag. not sure if thats true, but again like you said some diags take 10 minutes and sometimes you can diagnose the whole car in 1.0. where i struggle is our shop refuses to buy any other service information other than the basic alldata subscription. their response is just google it... so when i can't find what i need i ship the car and make them pay me internally for my time. Now one for shot gunning parts at a car. I had a 17 Impala with 12k on it had 2 heater circuit codes stored in it. i shot gunned a 02 sensor at it. when i went to verify the repair it wasn't the 02 sensor. It ended up being the ecm reading faulty data said it was pulling 8.24 ma with the sensor unplugged, plugged in. whether or not that was a software anomaly it had the latest calibration. the ecm fixed it. Also as for a customer coming in with a part or requesting a part replace we will tell them if it doesn't fix it you will need to pay diag, we will replace the part, clear the code and if it comes back its on you.
I ask what they want to spend on diagnosis. Most are happy with an hour. Somethings though, need research and several ways to confirm a fault.
Where would you recommend I send a technician that is inefficient at diagnosis? If I tell him to swap this engine or transmission into this car he's always hours ahead of all data, but when it comes to diagnosing electrical issues he seems to struggle. Are there online courses I can pay for or places around to send him to? Thanks in advance flat rate master....as a shop owner...your advice is kindly appreciated.
Kind of off topic but what do think about shops that have little to no benefits and/or incentives.
Had one you guys diagnosed come in recently for a second opinion,you were right on the money with the eccentric shaft diag.😉,they cheaped out on the repair though so we both lost that one
She is a classic example of someone that can't afford a BMW;)
@@flatratemaster The most expensive car you will ever own is a cheap BMW.
Tech: here’s what’s wrong with your car, troubleshot for FREE. It’s $300 to fix.
Customer: that’s ridiculous! I’ll take my business somewhere else!
😱 😨 I was going to take my car for diagnostic but that will cost me tons of money...
Off topic here just a bit flat rate Master what Marco box is that and what is the dimensions of it
Advance Auto doesn't charge for diagnostics.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 You have to be fair to the customer and yourself. Just can't stay in business giving time away.
1.5 for evap are you hiring?
Training and more training always help a tech and good service information to
always get paid for your expertise.
Well covered. I'm going to go ahead and say it....if you dislike this video you either don't work flat rate, suck at your job, or are a diaguesser.
Good video......thanks
How much money for diagnostic tests you did not told you waste of time.
I believe the fair way to do it is to have an upfront diagnostic fee per car, not per problem/code. Plus, how do you know how many codes it has prior to starting the diagnosis? A flat fee will likely ensure that you have a knowledgeable tech working on it, otherwise he/she will be losing hours with a slow diagnosis. Diagnosis should also be separate from the repair. Just my thoughts...
The problem is that one car may have a missing gas cap. Then the next will have 19 codes covering nearly every system. The cap would take more time to pull the car in and out than diagnosis. The 19 codes could take multiple days. Yes I had a car with 19 codes come in.
Troy Built - Hope your next one is an easy gas cap!
This is what is killing the profession. An Hvac guy works on Hvac, a plumber works on plumbing, an electrican works on.... you get my point. Mechanics are expected to be experts on cars, but people dont realize cars have many systems, just like your home. You call people to work on each system of your home but expect one guy to check each system of your car for one flat rate?????? Nope, that is not how it works. If you come in with a p0106 map performance, a c0041 right front speed sensor range performance code, and a b1b06 squib 2 open circut driver restraint module and are expecting one flat rate.... lol good luck.
Ball Zach - The tricky part is paying a good troubleshooter what he or she is worth and not paying an an unskilled or poor troubleshooter by the hour. I hear what you are saying about the skills needed to troubleshoot a vehicle though. Most people don’t grasp how complex cars are now.
@@montestu5502 I am a diagnostic technician. My job is to get correct answers quickly, so this subject is a touchy one for me. It took me 18 years to get here. Now every shop has a low skilled parts guy, but every shop I have ever worked at or known of also has atleast 1 high skilled diag. You may have the low skilled guy working on your car but the high skilled guy isn't going to let him or the shop get in trouble. So in my previous example I mentioned 3 non over lapping problems. I think 3 hours charged is fair. The low skilled guy may spend 6 or 7 hour on it. The high skilled guy may get it figured out in 1 hour, but he is high skilled. Now if the shop charges the customer 3 hours and sells stuff that doesn't fix it, run away from that shop. Customers also have to do their part in finding a good shop. Hell reviews are everywhere. Check the shop out before you commit.
We should get paid something .5 to 1.0 per different complaint on a separate line period. No $$$ diagnostic , I skip the line or just straight up guess if I really have too. I've gone down this road with my service manager, general manager, human resources . We get paid flat rate so every job should pay something. I've made it clear that I dont work for free so if it's not warranty, or customer pay then it's a internal pay or vice versa, I dont care who pays! But someone has to pay. If the service manager /advisor wants to give up my diagnostic for free or not pay me what I'm entitled to I walk up to my hr office and tell her this is wage theft and if I have to I call the labor board. It took them awhile to learn that they cant screw me over on hours and gets a bit awkward after the call but they have to understand that I'm not a slave there volunteering. For free bulshit work at my shop it goes to the apprentices/ hourly workers now. It's a struggle everyday still but I have to stick to guns .If you want to get paid flatrate at a dealer you have to be strong and dont give in to the advisors begging you for a deal. I'm getting tired of doing this but if you don't make care of your hours ie flagging them at the end of the day the advisors always RIP you off. Trust me, if you dont check give it a shot for 2 weeks , I bet you will lose 10 hours that the advisors forget to pay you.....
I PERSONALLY THINK THIS IS TOTALLY OFF. THATS LIKE A CHEF CHARGING 45$ EXTRA TO NOT ADD SALT BECAUSE NOT ON ORIGINAL RECIPE. OF A CIGAR ROLLER ADDING 100$ TO ADD A LEAF CUZ YOU LIJE IT THAT WAY. ITS YOUR JOB. JUST DO IT AND SHUT UP!
Where do you to get extra training working in an independent shop
Fair enough
Whats is your opinion on shops that charge a diag fee and then if you do the job the take that fee off??
It's the hook to get the customer to say yes
Most just add it into the total, you just don't know it.
Do you still charge a diagnostic fee when the customer tells you what's wrong? I've ran into this before when I tell the dealership exactly what's wrong and they still charge me a fee lol. But most of the time the customer is wrong so I get it.
Short answer yes, if you tell me it is a particular part and i just take your word for it and replace it, then the car still has the problem, who is the bad guy? I would rather double check and charge a fee than replace a part that you cannot return and still have to charge for diagnostics and another part that was the actual failure.
Also, no, if you tell me that it's a coil or a spark plug and i can easily verify it, then i won't charge you much, if anything at all, due to how i just had to check one component.
I've seen shops tell the customer they can change the part or do a diagnosis. If they are told to change the part and that doesn't fix it they are still paying for it. If they are paid to diagnose and it doesn't fix it they aren't paying. Sometimes that still turns into an argument.
What you do when the customer tells you this part is bad change it is you don't ask questions, you don't test anything, you just change it and charge them for the part and labor. No guarantee of anything. Then if it doesn't fix it its their problem.
I just chatge a shit load. I let them know its probably going to be thousands $ . Im not going to retire broke like all mechanics. Uck the bullshit !!!
Is there ANY other industry that pays flat rate? Not as bad as a lawyer charging an hour for a 5 minute phone call but still a rip off.
seems like simple greed. all the yabba yabba yabba do talk. bottom line how much you charge per hour? by now you dont have this mastered how to simply find if it is the fuel pump or its circuit by probing a few grounds and powers? even with pin out boxes and load pro and somehow diagnosing wiring is a skill? wth on earth
Taking 10 minutes and charging an hour is fraud, no?
Nope thats flat rate
You clearly don't work in the flat rate side of things.
It's not because It can be something else even if you think you fixed it you need to verify that you fixed it so I take the rest of the time to confirm the fix
What about the job that only paid one hour but may have taken the mechanic two or three because of unforseen problems, like a failed part or rusted seized bolts and the customer only pays for that one hour, then is it fraud?
@@throttletherapy9998 its fraud to the technician
But the dealership always gets the last laugh between the customer and the technician
👍
Shouldn't per hour be per hour?
The per hour method is used on some rear cases where the problem is obscure like a parasitic draw can be sold on that principle. One of my coworkers did a 4h diag on a parasitic draw that was in the rear driver door. So it depends on the issue
What is a Parasitic Draw?
@@ArjayMartin A small electrical drain. Usually a nuisance until it drains the battery or starts messing with system voltage. It can be caused by nearly anything going bad. Even a wire may rub through causing an intermittent problem. They are notorious for being hard to find.
Im sure many many many noob flat rate techs would would love for you to pay them per hour. Im not sure if you know this but the average salary for an automotive technicin is right around 38k per year. Trust me no one is getting rich changing out your sienna vans lower control arms bro.
@@zach914v8 What about the owner of the business..?
Your diagnostic should be part of your hours only, cost of your materials and instruments are nothing to do with us. Like your miscellaneous charges are nothing but a gratuity fee like restaurants . When I go and buy a pair of pants they don’t charge me a fee for using their adding machine or heat for the building on and on. To hook up the machine to the vehicle and fix it all in 1 hour it took you is all you should charge, if it takes extra charge extra. If I get a haircut they don’t charge extra to clean floor or wash combs, or wear and tear on chairs, blowers, on and on
Hooking up a scan tool/code reader does not make you a Rocket Scientist, At All, Ever! And thinking that you as a "tech" have the only answer to a problem...Laughable. Without your precious scan tool, you'd be as sure of yourself as your "Customers" that: you like to portray as complete morons. You're paid too much, be it flat rate or hourly. A mechanic thinking that because they bought a tool created,designed,and sold to solve automotive "tech" problems by another human being makes them a "Tech"... Is like a person buying a calculator and proclaiming themselves as a Mathematical Genius because they have a Calculator.
I know this is a troll, but if it's so easy why don't you buy a scan tool and make a killing as an "overpaid" mechanic?