What if Zapadoslavia became a nation before WW2?
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- What we will focus on in today’s video is about the western Slavs and their proposed nation of Zapadoslavia. This group includes the people of modern-day Poland, Czechia, and Slovakia.
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▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
00:00 - All the Slavic sub-divisions
00:30 - Poland and Czechoslovakia after WW1
00:48 - Polish-Soviet war
01:22 - Polish Civil war
02:22 - Different sides in the civil war
03:42 - Zapadoslavia gets united
04:20 - German expansion during the 1930's
05:24 - The Zapadoslavian Compromise
07:11 - Germany declares war
08:20 - Operation Barbarossa
08:53 - Polish Peace Treaty in our timeline
09:16 - Allied landing in Zapadoslavia
09:50 - Peace Treaty
10:32 - Video Outro
You're just blatantly incorrect about the Winter War.
1. The Soviet Union asked for land and offered similar amount of land in a less developped area.
2. Soviet Union took more land than they had originally asked for, which does make sense, but you said that they only took what they had requested.
3. While you didn't actually say anything about this, it should be mentioned in this comment that the Soviet Union had plans to eventually annex Finland, with taking of key defensive lines in the South as the first step. While the invasion wouldn't have been immediate, it was their long term goal, since Finland had been a part of the Russian Empire and the USSR was quite expansionist.
4. "They didn't annex the country" That's because Finland fought furiously back and it was clear to the Soviet leadership that an occupation of Finland, while possible, would be too costly for what it was worth. That's also the main reason to why they agreed to sign a separate peace deal with Finland to end the Continuation War. The Finns were actually preparing for a occupation during the last weeks of the Winter War, with weapon caches being put in key locations, with the distinct purpose of making the occupation as costly as possible.
I could go on and on about various points about the Winter War, expanding on what I have said, but that's the gist of it and I do that whole "going on and on" plenty enough already, as it is my job. Technically I'm just a substitute and I'm paid accordingly, but I still teach 40 teens year-round.
About your second point, on the map it shows the correct land they took, which is a bit more, yes, but not worth to mention Salla which had 6k people living within it. I didn't want to confuse my viewers, don't have time to explain the winter war, just needed to mention it briefly.
About the final two points, again you are correct, but it would be very stupid for me to talk in 30% of the video for the Winter war. I need to make interesting videos and sacrifices like that are necessary to grow on youtube.
From your name I can guess that you are finnish, so of course you should know more about your history than I, someone from Bulgaria, would.
@@rewriting-history 6:44 You show the Soviets requesting far more land than they actually asked for. The Soviets only asked for land west of Ladoga and they requested land up to the part where Vyborg Bay begins, so about 35 km less deep. The demanded land is a massive 11 times less than Finland lost for the Winter War. The most important part is that the Soviets didn't demand Vyborg from Finland.
I do undestand that you don't want to explain the Winter War, since that's barely even mentioned in the video.
That being said, knowing the actual history and facts on the matter, does make your whole point about the USSR respecting Zapadoslavian independence unfounded, but after suffering in the Winter War, the Soviets would most likely respect the sovereignty of Zapadoslavia, because they got most of what they wanted and they needed time to recover, so it doesn't change the scenario.
What I'm trying to convey is that the reason why we should believe in USSR not invading Zapadoslavia is not what the Soviets took from Finland, but why did they only take that much land.
The why is:
1. Military's incompetency
2. Bad international image created from invading innocent nations
3. The cost of war
So instead of saying: "They simply took what they had requested in the first place. They didn't annex the country, nor puppet it. The same would happen in Zapadoslavia."
You could've said: They took some more land as compensation, but didn't annex or puppet the country, because of bad international image and cost of the war. So the USSR wouldn't want to throw itself into another costly war yet, especially since Zapadoslavia had already given them demanded land.
@@Tommuli_Haudankaivaja Nice! I like your way of putting it in the end how I should phrase it better. I'm glad that we can have a civil discussion about what I did wrong, so I can improve in the future.
I should start putting my scripts on discord, since people like you can spot some mistakes and correct me when I'm still in production, because now I feed it's too late and the only thing I can do is to pin this comment discussion, so other people can learn more.
Thank you for being so civil and explaining what I did wrong in such a polite way, that's the way to go!
Don't forget that Finland is mostly Forests and Lakes, mostly in snow and Poland is located in centre of European Highway, called European Plains. Borders of interwar Poland weren't as much safe as today (Today Borders of Poland ofc arent Perfect but Today we have Borders on Bug river on east, on Odra River on west) and Borders were long, mostly in Forests and Plains, so reassuming it was much easier to invade flat, nearly completly undefended Plateu, in easy climate than Finland with natural defense, on harsh climate.
As a Czech, I must say that the union couldn't have sadly survived to this day. Zapadaslovia could have had any borders it could want but it still would be a giant Polish majority dominated country, even if Czechia and Slovakia combined in opposition, they would still be a only a third of its population. Not to mention lingustic, geographic, cultural, and even like in Yugoslavia, religious differences. I highly doubt that it could last even to the 70s. There is a reason why it was never formed even though it was proposed so many times in our timeline
Yes I agree with you. Maybe some sort of a deal needs to be made. In Czechoslovakia the slovaks were a minority and there were 3 times more czech people. They just split the money 3:1 to keep the union in tact. I assume the same could be done with Zapadoslavia, but yes they could collapse, with a long civil war.
@@rewriting-history I dont know about that .The break up of czechoslovakia was quite peaceful and the majority of slovaks didnt really want independence. Zapodslavia break up might be quite peaceful.
However i dont know how zapodslavia will lose to germany in WW II. Czechoslovakia had one of the highest industries. They were on their own quite competant and only lost due to losing the sudentenland around which the defenses were build to protect from germans. Poland also fought quite well vs Germany till USSR Joined. If USSR might have been [a] neutral germany wont like win or [b]Zapodslavia will lose but it will take years for them to lose giving allies time to strike .
Overall a great video well done.
@@indiradevi6217 Thank you! My explanation for Zapadoslavia falling to the Germans is that the enemy would push through Poland, which is a flatland. In this way they will avoid the heavily fortified Sudetenland. Think of it as the Maginot line and the Lowlands being Poland.
@@rewriting-history Thats a good point but conquering Zapodslavia would have taken way longer I mean way longer especially if the Soviets dont join. Zapodslavia will still fight through czechoslovakia. So the allies would get time to fight back germans.
I think one of the possible scenarios would be the cessation of Czechia. Slovakia could have been weak enough to opt for staying with Poland. We also had back then pretty different relations with Slovaks than you do. I don't know if you know but during Austro-Hungarian days the Czechs were the most dominant western slavic nation within the empire
I just saw that you hit 1000 subscribers! Congratulations! Here is to many many more!
Yay! Thank you! Really appreciate all the support and love I'm getting from everyone. I won't forget you guys I promise!
Congratulations on 1000 subscribers! I found your channel in the alternate history guild channel
Welcome aboard! I'm glad people are finding me and choose to subscribe, it really makes my day! Also yes we hit 1k subs lets gooo!!!
Happy 1k subs man!! I can just imagine the chaos at discord rn
I can't thank you enough, so much support I'm getting from everyone! It's awesome! It was a very interesting day
I love today’s new video!!! ❤😊😎🤩
Thank you very much! I'm glad you do, since it took me a lot of time to make, it was very difficult with all the custom maps and such.
congratulations for 1000 subscribers!!!!
🎉 Yaaay thank you very much! We hit it together on the video premier!
Wow. This was a pretty good video, I really enjoyed it.
Also, I have a question: Can you make a scenario where the 2nd Balkan war never happened?
Mihajlo Bogdanović
Heyooo I remember you from a couple of minutes ago! Yes sure I'll make a video about that, I've wanted to make a video about the Balkan wars, now is my chance.
interesting, I had never heard of the concept of Zapadoslavia before
It's a fictional concept, I'm glad the video received some love!
Congratulations for hitting 1000 subs!
Thank you so much! You're always showing me constant support, I will never forget!
Guys, we can still do it. We can make Zapadoslavia and achieve greatness.
It's never too late!
9:17 best part 😂
Also congrats for the 1,000!
Absolutely! I'm starting to experiment with a lot of stuff!
Zapadosławia górą 🇵🇱❤🇨🇿❤🇸🇰
Haha I'm glad you liked the video concept!
EPIC VIDEO BEST VIDEO I APPROVE
Thank you! Only need a czech person to approve and I have all the approval of Zapadoslavia!
I was thinking that maybe Zapadoslavia would be severed into an east and west like how Germany was partitioned, but in retrospect, I dont think the allies would accept this. Also, cool vid !! I hope you continue to make quality content in the future :)
Thank you very much for the support! I agree that the peace deal is not 100% realistic and the allies landing in Zapadoslavia would be difficult to say the least. They would need to first take Denmark and etc. I just wanted to base the scenario around Zapadoslavia and to have a good ending. It's sort of unrealistic, but it works!
7:16 I think they'd still be more willing to ally with the Nazis than the Communists even though the Nazis would be demanding a lot more since non-communist governments generally had a tendency to prefer fascism over communism until 1939.
You're right and it's possible that is more likely, but if they has joined Germany, than they would lose the war. I wanted Zapadislavia to survive the war
@@rewriting-history I feel like had they joined the axis, the British and French would never have had a reason or justification to go to war with Germany. Even in our timeline, they only began actively confronting Germany once their own territorial integrity got threatened. If Zapadoslavia had survived, they and Germany would have just directly gone to war with the USSR in 1939 (the USSR would still have won though).
@@PizzaChess69 good idea, but I don't think the USSR would let Zapadislavia exist after that, but it's hard to say for certain. It's another alternative, but I decided on this!
Well, there was this idea of “pan-slovanism”, AKA all slovans should work together. It was really popular after first WW, so that could be factor.
Are you sure about soviets still winning? Zapadoslavia wouldnt try to exterminate people there, so it wouldn't be a war for existence, rather, a regime change
3:06 - As a Pole, I think that in this alternative scenario, the terietories controlled by Roman Dmowski and by Józef Piłsudski should have been switched beetwen them, esspecially that Roman Dmowski lived in the western part of Poland, while Józef Piłsudzki didn't really care about greater poland (a region in western poland where Dmowski lived) and didn't want greater poland to be a part of Poland, and greaterpoles had to fight to be a part of the Polish state in Greater Poland's uprising in years 1918-1919. That's why I would switch their controlled land in this alternate scenario, though i'd give Warsaw on Piłsudzki's side, and maybe recompensate that to the Dmowski's side by giving them some of the southern parts of Poland. This isn't a significant thing in your scenario, tho I wanted to point that out. Despite that, I think that it's an interesting and pretty cool video!
very cool scenario!
Really appreciate it, glad you liked it!
Nice!
Thanks! Hope you liked it!
To be fair, in 1938 and Munich agreement, Czechoslovakian army was on par with German one. Czechoslovakia was third or fourth biggest arms manufacturer in the world and if there weren’t major industrial fuck up/ups, Zapadoslavia shouldn’t be behind Germany in industrialization.
Just Czechoslovakia had 1,000,000+ army personal (after mobilization), with 300,000 professional and rest semi professional, where Germans had 2,000,000 with more then million (maybe as million and half) of total green soldiers.
Good point, I was criticized that Zapadoslavia could hold out for longer, which the more I read, the more I believe it. Should have done my research better. Thank you for letting me know! I will screenshot this information of Czechoslovakia and save it for another time I need to mention the country in that time period!
@@rewriting-history i was making some work about scenarios and situations during first republic and Czechoslovakia during Munich Agreement (betrayal), so if you want, i can send you some info, with sources, ofcourse.
@@brutalikcz532 If you are willing to, than yes ofc. I'm always looking for ways to improve and learn more. You can join my discord and find me there!
0:24 we are missing Sobrs D:
Great video 👍
Thank you! Really appreciate it!
Great video the only thing I think that is unrealistic is the allied landings at Gdansk(Danzig) because
Denmark and Norway were under nazi occupation which means the nazis were basically in control of Baltic sea and any allied ship that may pass would most likely be destroyed by the german Atlantic wall or the remaining submarines that nazis had
But other than that I think this video is great 9/10
Thank you and yeah I realized that whenever I uploaded the video. You are not the first to point that out, it was my mistake for not thinking of it. They should have first invaded Denmark before going to Zapadoslavia.
@@rewriting-history But even then this video is a solid 9/10
@@whatifthishappened Thank you I appreciate it very much!
According to 3rd May Contitution (Polish 1st in Europe Constitution) the King would be from Wettin dynasty, cause it said that after Death King Stanisław August Poniatowski the new king would not be elected, but it will be Frederick August I Wettin.
Also it is important, that Czechoslovakia and Poland would be in very bad relationship, as they originaly were in 1920's
Hey! Thank you for letting me know constitutionally who would be the next king, I just chose this one, because I was familiar with him, because in hoi4 you can form a personal union with Czechoslovakia. This is what I needed in this scenario and decided to borrow some ideas from there. I though that the people who created the mod know more than i do, so I should trust them on that.
@@rewriting-history yeah, it is ofc possibile that other kings would reign in Poland, but Polish people weren't very pro-monarchist, as Monarchy was only a prestige issue.
Not to mention, that Poland acually had monarchy after act of 5th November in 1916. Germany established then Kingdom of Poland, with Regency Council im charge, so people were discouraged to support monarchy. And also fact, that German King would reign wasnt so good, either it would be Albrecht, or Frederick, or someone else from maybe Hohenzollern dynasty, as Poland had bad relationship with Germany since 1917 (Józef Piłsudski was inprisoned because he refused to Proclaim loyalty to German Kaiser)
@@Klabar_Official I choose Albrecht as the monarch and in the video I had mentioned the Polish puppet state, the Regency council
Never heard of this proposed country till now
It's an interesting proposal for sure, the nation can also be found in hoi4 mods!
hey bro love your vidoes i noticed that they're slight issues with your english (not bad at all) i mean no disrespect but im going to offer to read through your sripts if youd like and correct your english errors for you, if you find that a little invasive (which is understandable) id happily give you some recomendations on how you can improve these slight but noticable errors
Yes please I'm always willing to improve. I'm aware that I have some issues, maybe it's because I'm always worried when recording, constant anxiety. Sometimes I just panic and cannot pronounce "France" properly". I would say that I know english pretty well, even when I speak it on discord with my subscribers I sound alright. It's just when I press the record button that everything goes to shit. :D
10:01 even assuming everything in this video up to this point happens as in the video (i already made objections in another comment) this peace deal is unrealistic.
the only reason the allies gave poland so much territory from germany in the OTL was because of the territory they lost to the USSR, it was compensation. the is no reason to give them so much land if they are not losing any land to the soviets. (similarly the forced german explusions are unlikely to happen in this timeline either meaning the Zaps are unlikely to want so much land anyway)
Lore of What if the Allies didn’t do appeasement in WW2? Momentum 100
I have a video for that, check it out! - ua-cam.com/video/vuCi9ZL67dI/v-deo.htmlsi=o74OgakK71y2TaS0
1. 6:23 Lwów or Lvov would have been the more apt spelling for the city if it were Zapadoslavian.
2. 9:03 On the surface it may seem like Poland lost land in WW2, however the territory ceded from Germany to Poland was much more developed than what the Soviets had taken.
1. I think the spelling I used was in english, so my bad there.
2. Yes I agree with you, the land was many times more valuable, i was talking just sheer size!
What to you think happens to the germans in the east in this world
In east prussia, or?
Ye
And suteidenland silisia
@@thngaming6771 can't say for certain, maybe they get deported, just as it was done to then historically. Another alternative idea is that the since east Prussia was an active frontline, people would move to avoid chaos.
A sad
But imagine an entire union of slavic nations. Would be unstoppable...
Soon I'll make a video on that!
Would fall apart in ten years, tops
This is a bit of a nitpick bit Poland was the one who invaded Russia in the first place Russia wasn’t prepared for that war since the civil war hadn’t ended yet
Correct, but the video is more interesting this way
Why do you use mep that shows Crimea as part of Russia?
Yeah, where's Donbass, Zaporozhye and Kherson? Are we going to wait another 8 years before they finally update their maps?
I feel the Soviets would just demand most of what they got OTL during the past with Germany. Territories like east galicia were overwhelmingly Ukrainian aside from the main city after all.
The nazis also still held Denmark at the end of the war, so I doubt a Baltic invasion plan could happen, though the allies may get more of Germany or perhaps parts of Yugoslavia.
The union would also put Czechoslovakia under threat of the Soviets making it unlikely along with other reasons, and I dont see it as sustainable in the long run.
hypee
Yaaaaay thank you for the support!
How would the Western Allies go into the baltique sea?
Around the Danish strait is one option, maybe they should first liberate Denmark. I didn't want to bore the audiance with the details, so i went to the point. Also maybe neutral sweden helps them, letting them launch the invasion from there
Although I really like the idea there are some problems with this scenario...
1. The Polish Civil War idk where did you get the boundaries of the participant, but ok. I think there is huge possibility Piłsudzki would get along with the King or even Dmowski if he was the victor. They weren't some radical Republicans.
2. Also connected with the CW. Dmowski who was propagating Polish Poland wouldn't be really popular in Belarus, Ukraine and Lithuania and definietely not in Piłsudzki's hometown of Vilnius (look he doesn't have any ethnically Polish land in this scenario), so I think swapping their territories may be more accurate. (Although still not ideal)
3. That's not the so called "German corridor", what you have shown is much more than what Germans wanted. These are the boundaries of the 1st prussian partition of Poland in 1772
4. Minsk was within the Polish borders not Soviet
Hey there, thank you for pointing out where I have made some mistakes, I'm still a new creator and I'm always learning new things. Regarding the last point, I'm aware, also this was the border for the German empire, I just didn't want to add any more new information to confuse the viewers, so I put these two together.
So if south slavia is yugoslavia and west slavia is zapadoslavia, what does that make east slavia?
Best timeline
In Polish it's "zachód" (read zahood) not "zapad"
Lore of What if Zapadoslavia became a nation before WW2? Momentum 100
Hope you liked the video!
5:49-7:10 I think you over state how much land the germans would demand, and understate how much land the soviets would demand.
firstly the germans:
1 - even in their harshest ultimatum right before their ww2 invasion, germany did not demand the entire polish corridor, only demand a referendum (with the right for anyone who could proved they lived there in 1918 or earlier able to vote in adition to its current residence), a referendum run by france and britian. and even then the demands did not include all of the polish corridor, the polish port of Gdynia was excluded by name (which was the largest seaport in the baltic by 1938 and had 48% of all polish trade, land and sea). [points 2, 3, 4 and 7 of the ultimatum]
2 - included in the above ultimatum was a demand for a guarantee of free passage along a 1km wide transit lane through the polish corridor for both germany and poland, guaranteeing poland acess to Gdynia and the sea if it was cut off by the results of the referendum, or connecting germany to east prussia if the results of the referrendum still resulted in it being cut off. this included the germans having the right to build a 4 track railway and a highway to east prussia in their potential 1km wide lane that must bridge over existing polish roads and rails so as not to interfear with polish traffic, with poland being given the same rights to build rails and roadways in their potential 1km wide lane. [point 6 and 8 of the ultimatum]
it should be noted that this would have built apon existing transit agreements, germany was already agreenteed access to polish rails and roads to east prussia as of a april 1921 paris treaty. and that the germans had already asked for the extension to allow them to build and expand new roads and rails in 1938.
3 - the germans offered a treaty that would continue polish special trade rights through Danzig (and potentially other german ports) [points 10 and 11 of the ultimatum]
4 - in germany's 1938 demands to poland they did not demand any territory other than Danzig and the right to the 1km wide transit lane (still otherwise polish), its Poland''s rejection that resulted in the harsher demands in 1939.which are still less harsh than presented in the video. in addition the 1934 non-aggression treaty would be extended another 25 years aswell as a defensive alliance against the USSR.
so your portrayal of the german demands is way worse than the historical demands when they were prepared to go to war over the issue, let alone the historical 1938 demands. As based on the german census data only a minority of the polish corridor was majority german in 1918 and earlier, meaning even if every german with the right to vote in the referendum voted to have their town/village/city rejoin germany the majority of the polish territory shown in the video at 5:50 would stay in polish hands in even the most extreme german demand to poland.
map for idea of likely voting/territory for poland side: i.pinimg.com/1200x/6d/d3/f4/6dd3f460d3642671b8cf4c4afa7dca4a.jpg
some maps of photos/scans taken from books:
www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ea85fo/ethnographic_map_of_poland_1918/
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Poles_in_German_Empire%2C_1910_census.jpg
Next the USSR.
1 - the territorial claims of the Ukrainian SSR alone dwarfs your soviet demands
lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/kHhfsGo6QZu2e9DCLIisLt7_AT2xUZFYZP6JMtafztq1OsmJ3-dKToLR3yK3WA57NBHhr5y1pwCXQX6lRe5dX9Qf7n8-skgQwW21LnoQIWuAw50MzEoFxa-3pl8jsUBWMQTBhqpa1SN85doT-g786ERfA-4CntQN
2 - the soviet territory taken in 1939 and 1945 historically greatly exceeds those prosed in the video.
3- the east slavic minorities are much greater than the territories demanded by the soviets in the video, and realistically if the soviets are going to make any claim they will demand ones along ethnic lines:
eg:
www.edmaps.com/poland_1921_ethnographic_map_d.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/GUS_languages1931_Poland.jpg/640px-GUS_languages1931_Poland.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Polacy_na_Kresach_1931.PNG
the Curszon line was originally proposed by the british and the soviets would almost certainly try and push for as much of it as possible
I just don't see the soviets realistically demanding so little from the Polish as the video in 6:10, especially after you consider the carpatho-ruthenians in ex-czechoslovakia.
Overview:
the Zaps would actually get a better deal from the germans than in the video, worse than the video from the USSR, face more pressure from the allies to negotiate with the germans than the USSR and being monarchist would be less willing to negotiate with the ussr in the first place.
you have also forgotten about the german army coup plan of 1938 [the Oster conspiracy], in the case of hitler starting a war against the allies the german army would coup the nazis. historically this didn't happen as the allies backed down after the germans broke the munich agreement and the nazis became too popular with the civilians. in this alternate history the german conspirators would be even more weary of a war (as the zaps are stronger than the czechs and there is no aparent deal here between ussr and germany to split eastern europe) and there is less german support for the nazis due to no munich agreement.
infact the german conspirators approached the allies in the OTL but were rejected by them due to the munich agreement, no munich agreement means the conspirators work with the allies and thus if Hitler tries to start ww2 the german army coups him.
in such a scenario where negotiations breakdown or don't happen between the zapadoslavians and the germans the oster conspriacy intervenes and ww2 ends quickly as the Oster conspiracy ceases the government and its more of a nazi purge than a real war. due to the Oster conspiracy the disputed territory continues to be negotiated after the end of the war, rather than germany being punished too harshly.
Wouldn't it make more sense to also hand Pomerania to Zapadoslavia? It is also inhabited by ethnic and linguistic western slavs.
I know the nation would be unrealistic and a bit to strong, but it would be truer to the althist's goal
what if crassus conquered Persia and the civil war was 3 way?
do you refer to the Battle of Carrhae?
@@rewriting-history that and more, what if he were on the same level as Pompey and Caesar and he actually succeeded in conquering the entirety of Persia
2 subs needed
Nvm we did it
@@-fish-. we did it liveee! That was very epic
@@rewriting-history yes i was there
A prečo tu nemáme Štetín a celé západné pobrežie?
But I prefer keep Lwów, Grodno, Brześć and Wilno instead of Szczeciń
Common Gigachad Bulgaria W
Always! :D
Emphatically Christian and would rest on Sunday like Chick Fil A
No, the Soviet Union tried to reintegrate Finland, like they did with the Baltics. In the 30ies irridentist movements inside the Soviet Union got strong. Likely they wouldn't been satisfied with what Zapadoslavia proposed. Minsk is still a few km next to the border, despite giving up belarussian and ukrainian lands. So even your argumentation doesn't fit the narrativ. They would have wanted to devide Zapadoslavia with Germany, but no lasting peace with Poland let democratic Zapadoslavia. Poland and Democracy are two reasons why it wouldn't have worked in our timeline. You would have to replace Stalin and the communist elite with a suddenly polish friendly one to make this work.
I understand you point, but it would be unlikely that the allies would let Poland get divided up, making their enemies stronger. Maybe the allies ally temporarily with Germany against the Soviets, just to keep the balance of power in their favour
What if Russia rebrandet as Iztokoslavia
It was named Rus
5:01 Zapodoslavia Has Coat of arms of Western Ukraine on their flag in the middle soooo
Yes, of course they would. If they hadn't, I don't think the Ukrainians would want to remain under them
I am a little disappointed by the mistakes made not only by Czech alternative history enthusiasts, but also by foreign ones. Please don't take this the wrong way, I just want to dispel one myth about invincible Germany.
In 1938, the German army was not yet ready for war. Half of the Wehrmacht and two-thirds of the German generals, including the retired Ludwig Beck and especially Werner von Fritsch, unequivocally disagreed with the attack on Czechoslovakia. Both of them, together with other pragmatically minded generals, even had a well-prepared plan to overthrow Hitler in the event that Czechoslovakia refused to hand over the Sudetenland without a fight.
In addition, the vast majority of German tanks at the time were Pz.Kpfw. I and Pz.Kpfw. II, which were very defective and unsuitable for the mountainous terrain that covered the entire Sudetenland except southern Bohemia and southern Moravia.
The tanks that successfully conquered Poland and France were overwhelmingly originally Czechoslovak tanks LT vz. 35 and LT vz. 38, which were known in the German army as Pz 35(t) and Pz 38(t).
Not to mention that after Germany occupied the Sudetenland and the subsequent occupation of Bohemia and Moravia, Hitler acquired Czech gold, thanks to which he saved the German economy from bankruptcy as a result of constant armaments. The most important factor was the acquisition of the entire Czech light and especially heavy industry without a fight. In addition, Czechoslovakia had one of the densest railway networks and mainly raw materials (Czech steel and Moravian oil) thanks to which the German army was perfectly supplied.
Even the German air force in 1938 was not 100% good. The Germans only had one month's supply of fuel, while the Germans would need at least three months to conquer Czechoslovakia. In addition, half of the Luftwaffe at that time consisted of outdated biplanes, often worse and more malfunctioning than the Czechoslovak Avia B-534, which, despite weaker machine guns and engines, still represented a worthy opponent even for the then newest Bf 109 fighters, which lagged behind in maneuverability and climbability.
If Czechoslovak President Edvard Beneš rejected the Munich Agreement and Hitler decided to use violence to expand German territory to the east, then even if there was no very likely coup d'état, the conquest of Czechoslovakia would be a lot like the Soviet invasion of Finland.
At the time of the Czechoslovak mobilization, the Czechoslovak army had 1.5 million men - the German army had around 2 million, which is not a dramatic difference. Moreover, while the Czechoslovak army was perfectly trained and well prepared for defense and, above all, determined to defend its home at all costs, the German army was still overwhelmingly made up of rookies, since the experienced ones were then fighting in Spain against the Republicans.
As for Poland and Hungary, they did sympathize with Hitler, but Hungary would not 100% dare to attack southern Slovakia, because the Kingdom of Romania made it clear that it would immediately intervene in case of Hungarian aggression, which the then Hungarian regent Miklós Horthy was very well aware of.
Poland also most likely would not attack Czechoslovakia, because the Soviet government threatened the Polish one that in the event of Polish aggression it would cancel the non-aggression pact, which would open the door for the Red Army to intervene in Poland, which the Poles were also very well aware of.
All in all, I'm sure that a German invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1938 would have ended for Germany the same way it did for the Soviet Union in early 1940. The Germans might have gained the southern Sudetenland (southern Bohemia and southern Moravia) and Chebsko (the westernmost territory of Czechoslovakia west of city of Karlovy Vary).
Czechoslovakia would defend its existence and the German Reich would go bankrupt without Czech gold within half a year and there would be a civil war very similar to the one in then Spain.
Great information, I red it a couple of times to remember it, as well as I saved the whole thing for later videos. You seem to know a lot about history, I can use your knowledge. If you're interested, I would be more than happy to pay you to collaborate with me. DM me on discord, or email me if you want more information.
LUBIMIQT MI BG UA-camR
Мерси много, братле! Определено имам много конкуренция, но се опитвам да бъда различен и оригинален. Благодаря за подкрепата!
You've forgotton the westslavic sorbians!
Nowadays this wouldn't work because of the liberal and atheist czechia and conservative and catholic poland.
It maybe won't, but back in the day, there was a real possibility!
Great video but Zapadoslavian soviet border is... just bad.
I think soviets should take all lithuanian and belarusian lands.
About ukrainian part just what you show: north east (forget the name in english) go to ussr and eastern galicja with lviv stays with zap
Thank you for letting me know, I used a linguistic map to make the borders, but wanted to give the Zapadoslavian nation a bit more land, since I assume they would settle in minority areas, altering the border.
Also I had trouble redrawing the linguistic map of Poland into my custom maps, there was a certain loss in there.
It's a good enough alternate scenario overall but I have one problem with Zapadoslavia's decision to cede its undeveloped East Slav regions to the USSR and, funnily enough, the problem is that you've approached the issue like a sensible and rational person who correctly judged the Nazi territorial demands as more crippling to the Zapadoslav state. Interwar Eastern Europe was not politically lead by such sensible and rational people, it was for the most part led by open anti-communists who would sooner cut off all their limbs than engage in cordial border adjustments with the communists, even for the sake of national survival.
To make this happen would require a significant personal intervention from the noted anti-Nazi King Karl Albrecht (who in our timeline declared Polish nationality and thus endured brutal Gestapo torture during the occupation), and the fact that he forced through this politically unpopular decision will for sure create a schism between King and Sejm for the duration of WW2.
Hey, amazing comment! You clearly know more about the topic than I do, but I'm glad I made some correct decisions and this is the only criticism you have of the scenario!
What happened to East Prussia 😂
Zapdos????
Zapadoslavia!!
Intermarium > Zapadoslavia
Already have a video about the Intermarium
Oh hey, you used my flag.
3:06 - As a Pole, I think that in this alternative scenario, the terietories controlled by Roman Dmowski and by Józef Piłsudski should have been switched beetwen them, esspecially that Roman Dmowski lived in the western part of Poland, while Józef Piłsudzki didn't really care about greater poland (a region in western poland where Dmowski lived) and didn't want greater poland to be a part of Poland, and greaterpoles had to fight to be a part of the Polish state in Greater Poland's uprising in years 1918-1919. That's why I would switch their controlled land in this alternate scenario, though i'd give Warsaw on Piłsudzki's side, and maybe recompensate that to the Dmowski's side by giving them some of the southern parts of Poland. This isn't a significant thing in your scenario, tho I wanted to point that out. Despite that, I think that it's an interesting and pretty cool video!
3:06 - As a Pole, I think that in this alternative scenario, the terietories controlled by Roman Dmowski and by Józef Piłsudski should have been switched beetwen them, esspecially that Roman Dmowski lived in the western part of Poland, while Józef Piłsudzki didn't really care about greater poland (a region in western poland where Dmowski lived) and didn't want greater poland to be a part of Poland, and greaterpoles had to fight to be a part of the Polish state in Greater Poland's uprising in years 1918-1919. That's why I would switch their controlled land in this alternate scenario, though i'd give Warsaw on Piłsudzki's side, and maybe recompensate that to the Dmowski's side by giving them some of the southern parts of Poland. This isn't a significant thing in your scenario, tho I wanted to point that out. Despite that, I think that it's an interesting and pretty cool video!