Thank you so much for making this. I've been struggling with my mapping and I thought it was all in my head that stock felt better but clearly it's legit
Thank you I live in new Zealand and have the 2023 WR250F street legal the bike has been to much bottom end I've changed the gearing 14/49 I'd be so greatful to hear back from you I'm going to use the smoth map you showed me
Great video! I’ve been hoping someone would dyno different maps. Would there be a way to do dyno runs at 20/40/60/80% throttle? I’m assuming these were WOT runs.
it would take us way too much time for a video. the power differences are extremely small, the app is designed to not allow a consumer to do much, what you tel the app to do vs what it does is not the same. The aftermarket allow full control - but the oems are extremely smart and typically program the bikes really well. On the ktm, the phone app can only pull power away - but never add. mostly at part throttles
Great question. I'd love to see dyno runs from idle with various throttle amounts. Some bikes are dramatically better off idle and it barely shows on the graph. I had a 125 enduro bike many years ago that could pull up steep hills *if *i didint give it more than 40% throttle.Any more throttle and it would die
I think this may cause some people to think that the power tuner is not very useful, but you have remember this is a WOT dyno test that doesn't show the effect of the map at partial throttle settings. A lot of time is spent at part throttle on a powerful bike on hard pack or slick conditions. Yamaha has already tuned the engine for near max power at WOT, so they have to limit how much timing you can add. The tuner allows for +4 degrees and -9 degrees from the baseline map, these are the exact same values in the ignition map on the APP. As for fuel, each step is a 2% change to baseline injector duration, so +7 in the app corresponds to +14% injector duration. All is explained in this Yamaha tech video: ua-cam.com/video/28jUpPXsukk/v-deo.html I have a WR450F and small changes make a big difference in smoothness, especially right off idle.
while I dont disagree, the reality is no matter how you tune it - its not that big. the ignition changes are not 1 degree per step. more around .2 degree. measured with some extremely trick tech. The video is to show for those who think they are making more power with some of the claimed power maps - they arent. And we test all throttle positions - but it would be a 2 hour video
Your dyno shows the yz out pulls the fc250. All the magazine tests have dyno graphs showing ithe yz is down on power and low speed torque compared to the Austrian bikes. Your dyno seems to match what test riders say while none of the magazine test dynos seem to correlate with their own comments. What do you think you are doing differently?
Great question. The current YZF dyno on vital is quite good for the 22 year test. We see nice gains on my dyno with our tuned ecu on the ktm group bikes - which I've published results on - client feedback on our ecu is massive improvement vs std. So that more accurately represents what mags seem to publish. I pride myself on consistent testing and procedure that I feel matches what we see while riding - it has taken a long time to develop our overall test methods. So to answer you - the ktm engine has more potential in stock form than it comes delivered with a better tune up in our testing. I've heard that test bikes often get a little "jazz" up from various OEMs for testing outlets - which I would do if I were them so why wouldn't ktm put their best foot forward... Gas varies across the country - which then varies the mapping. ESPECIALLY euro to usa. And cali to tx I think varies too. The OEM yamaha map was really really good - I don't think many people can actually improve it on a stock bike in a power standpoint (aftermarket ecu included) - I've tested various outlets ECU offerings and that's been my experience. Once mod that all goes out the window - or pipe changes etc. All that to say - I think fuel, testing method, coolant temp, oil temp, tire used, final gear ratio (gears dont' change power per say but if one bike goes 75 mph and another goes 68mph at the end of a pull wheel speed less inertia is used up or stored in the 68mph bike), tire used, tire pressure, strap pressure and test method vary results. And OEM's cheat. These are client supplied bikes, bought off a real showroom...not supplied by oems... Great question. Even oil type and selection, fill level has a huge effect. On yamaha's, I've seen 1.5 hp loss if over filled!
I believe yamaha has posted some maps that smooth it out. Less ignition, more fuel will be the direction they suggest in those maps. In our testing, it takes -5-6 at minimum on ignition to make a decent change
what full exhaust system gives the most hp for a modern yz? this is for a 2019 yz450f surely a bills re13? i saw your video on a ktm with bills vs pc vs fmf and bills looked promising
Hello , have you got a map to use for Extreme Enduro. Very smooth and easy on first part of curve ? I got in addition a big issue on hot starting with gear on . I don't know if it possible to get better for that issue using maps. Many thanks . Giò
I do not for oem tuner We sell get ecus - huge deveolopment and ability within those. for you i would try minus 7 or 8 ignition and plus 3-4 fuel everywhere. starting in gear is hard - clutch more important - drags engine
Adjusting idle to roughly 2000 to 2100 with the bike in gear and clutch in helps. Also pulling clutch fully into bar grip helps too with the drag and starting.
Every dyno can read different. We believe off extensive testing ours is accurate wheel power but I can push a button and make it read any number if I wished to - which I don’t. I have taken bikes from my dyno to others and seen them read “4 hp higher”. The dyno is a tool for comparing things, not for quoting numbers. Most people just can’t understand this. We’ve had engines that make 62 hp on my dyno win races in outlaw karts or hill climb against engines people claim make 80. We publish using sae correction factors so we can have relatively comparable data day to day, summer vs winter. I have tested the same bike on vastly different days and after correction factor applied from our weather station the two results be within a tenth or so. I’ve had the same bike come a year later and repeat results as well. Having repeatable test method adn test data is key, I see a lot of shops not understand this.
@HP Race Development well aware of dyno function and not questioning numbers. Just interested as to how people are testing and quoting MX bike figures and what the manufacturers quote.
@@RBGgermanKX250F ktm quotes countersprocket at stp. I’d rather be low and over deliver when we sell our race packages, which happens quite often for us.
hello what is the best tune map for yz250f 2019? MXA MAP is match ? thank you im a novice rider her in japan hope you can recommend me thank you so much 😊
i guess what I'm asking is, you can go as high as +7 or as low as -7 but I see no maps pushed that high. Will the bike gain power with say a dt1 high flow kit, fmf 4.1 system, some renegade pro4, and pushing the maps higher than what we normally see?
why do you think “pushing the app” will make more power. plus just means more fuel or ignition. The bike overall is too rich anyways. more fuel hurts power. the bike already makes max power at stock ignition. more ignition hurts power….
do you have any mods? simple so the 2022 or 23 yz250f can compete with the 2023 ktm 250 i watched your videos and it's stronger the ktm250 through almost the entire power band. A friend of mine wants to improve his yz250f but without losing reliability here in Mexico we only have 91 octane pump gasoline.
@@HPRaceDevelopment sorry. Auto correct got me. I thought I read in one of the comments that you guys were going to post a video on dynoing power flow kits with aftermarket air box lids. What kind of power are you seeing on stock bikes with just a power flow (twin air or no toil) and a air box lid with extra intake holes and extra height over factory?
@@charlesclapper8982 ok, I like POWER!!! On 250’s that’s what matters most. If the bike feels TOO aggressive for you, then the smoother/slower mapping is a great way to tame it down. On 450’s most owners need a way slower map!
The maps don’t seem to do much. Any point messing with it unless you do airbox or engine mods? How much can you get out of a vortex or full Get ecu tune on a stock bike?
What we have learned is the ignition “steps” in the yamaha tuner are small. My educated guess is each 1 equates to .2 degrees - which is essentially nothing. On the fuel side - its bigger steps - 1 is around 3 percent. We will have future videos but on a stock bike with parts - but no ecu is worth huge gains. Yamaha isnt dumb and employs really smart people with really bad ass testing equipment. they do motogp bikes etc… We have a video going up of airbox changes - without a doubt the best dollar per gain thing on any bike Ive ever tested.
I changed the map to the "EXCITING POWER" from Yamaha website and it does makes a noticeable difference, find myself in 3th gear instead 2th in some corners. not sure how it relates to HP but on the track it is a good tool, especially since it's free.
@@husqvarna199 It makes very little difference….if you went back to std you would find you can do the same without the change. The reality is the difference it makes can be done the same but opening the throttle 2-3 percent more in that situation.
@@husqvarna199 Yep. Multiple riders. I can assure you the difference is extremely small. In my opinion the aggressive maps felt snappier in no load rev, but slower all around under load. Certainly top feels longer - it’s just slower and doesn’t hit limiter as quick
Thank you so much for making this. I've been struggling with my mapping and I thought it was all in my head that stock felt better but clearly it's legit
Thank you I live in new Zealand and have the 2023 WR250F street legal the bike has been to much bottom end I've changed the gearing 14/49 I'd be so greatful to hear back from you I'm going to use the smoth map you showed me
Great video! I’ve been hoping someone would dyno different maps. Would there be a way to do dyno runs at 20/40/60/80% throttle? I’m assuming these were WOT runs.
it would take us way too much time for a video. the power differences are extremely small, the app is designed to not allow a consumer to do much, what you tel the app to do vs what it does is not the same. The aftermarket allow full control - but the oems are extremely smart and typically program the bikes really well. On the ktm, the phone app can only pull power away - but never add. mostly at part throttles
Great question. I'd love to see dyno runs from idle with various throttle amounts. Some bikes are dramatically better off idle and it barely shows on the graph.
I had a 125 enduro bike many years ago that could pull up steep hills *if *i didint give it more than 40% throttle.Any more throttle and it would die
I think i remember that music for one of my favorite movies as a teen.." behind the green door" cool test!
I think this may cause some people to think that the power tuner is not very useful, but you have remember this is a WOT dyno test that doesn't show the effect of the map at partial throttle settings. A lot of time is spent at part throttle on a powerful bike on hard pack or slick conditions. Yamaha has already tuned the engine for near max power at WOT, so they have to limit how much timing you can add. The tuner allows for +4 degrees and -9 degrees from the baseline map, these are the exact same values in the ignition map on the APP. As for fuel, each step is a 2% change to baseline injector duration, so +7 in the app corresponds to +14% injector duration. All is explained in this Yamaha tech video: ua-cam.com/video/28jUpPXsukk/v-deo.html I have a WR450F and small changes make a big difference in smoothness, especially right off idle.
while I dont disagree, the reality is no matter how you tune it - its not that big. the ignition changes are not 1 degree per step. more around .2 degree. measured with some extremely trick tech.
The video is to show for those who think they are making more power with some of the claimed power maps - they arent. And we test all throttle positions - but it would be a 2 hour video
What's the maximum amount of fuel that the tuner can add? Is the fuel increment a percent change and the spark a degree of advance?
Your dyno shows the yz out pulls the fc250. All the magazine tests have dyno graphs showing ithe yz is down on power and low speed torque compared to the Austrian bikes. Your dyno seems to match what test riders say while none of the magazine test dynos seem to correlate with their own comments. What do you think you are doing differently?
Great question. The current YZF dyno on vital is quite good for the 22 year test. We see nice gains on my dyno with our tuned ecu on the ktm group bikes - which I've published results on - client feedback on our ecu is massive improvement vs std. So that more accurately represents what mags seem to publish. I pride myself on consistent testing and procedure that I feel matches what we see while riding - it has taken a long time to develop our overall test methods. So to answer you - the ktm engine has more potential in stock form than it comes delivered with a better tune up in our testing. I've heard that test bikes often get a little "jazz" up from various OEMs for testing outlets - which I would do if I were them so why wouldn't ktm put their best foot forward... Gas varies across the country - which then varies the mapping. ESPECIALLY euro to usa. And cali to tx I think varies too. The OEM yamaha map was really really good - I don't think many people can actually improve it on a stock bike in a power standpoint (aftermarket ecu included) - I've tested various outlets ECU offerings and that's been my experience. Once mod that all goes out the window - or pipe changes etc. All that to say - I think fuel, testing method, coolant temp, oil temp, tire used, final gear ratio (gears dont' change power per say but if one bike goes 75 mph and another goes 68mph at the end of a pull wheel speed less inertia is used up or stored in the 68mph bike), tire used, tire pressure, strap pressure and test method vary results. And OEM's cheat. These are client supplied bikes, bought off a real showroom...not supplied by oems... Great question. Even oil type and selection, fill level has a huge effect. On yamaha's, I've seen 1.5 hp loss if over filled!
Beginner stupid question. Do any of these map tunes tame the engine for say a beginner rider for trail riding in the mountains?
I believe yamaha has posted some maps that smooth it out. Less ignition, more fuel will be the direction they suggest in those maps. In our testing, it takes -5-6 at minimum on ignition to make a decent change
what full exhaust system gives the most hp for a modern yz? this is for a 2019 yz450f surely a bills re13? i saw your video on a ktm with bills vs pc vs fmf and bills looked promising
Thank you
Does it also apply to wr250f?
MXA is the best map? sorry im a begginer rider.
2022 yz250f here… any newer goood maps out ? I just want to get rid of engine brake .. 😂
@@yodavizion Why do you think a change to fuel and ignition can remove vacuum? Lots of myths out there…
Hello , have you got a map to use for Extreme Enduro. Very smooth and easy on first part of curve ? I got in addition a big issue on hot starting with gear on . I don't know if it possible to get better for that issue using maps. Many thanks . Giò
I do not for oem tuner
We sell get ecus - huge deveolopment and ability within those. for you i would try minus 7 or 8 ignition and plus 3-4 fuel everywhere. starting in gear is hard - clutch more important - drags engine
Adjusting idle to roughly 2000 to 2100 with the bike in gear and clutch in helps. Also pulling clutch fully into bar grip helps too with the drag and starting.
These corrected powers are correcting to wheel hp or crank hp? SAE?
Every dyno can read different. We believe off extensive testing ours is accurate wheel power but I can push a button and make it read any number if I wished to - which I don’t. I have taken bikes from my dyno to others and seen them read “4 hp higher”. The dyno is a tool for comparing things, not for quoting numbers. Most people just can’t understand this. We’ve had engines that make 62 hp on my dyno win races in outlaw karts or hill climb against engines people claim make 80. We publish using sae correction factors so we can have relatively comparable data day to day, summer vs winter. I have tested the same bike on vastly different days and after correction factor applied from our weather station the two results be within a tenth or so. I’ve had the same bike come a year later and repeat results as well. Having repeatable test method adn test data is key, I see a lot of shops not understand this.
@HP Race Development well aware of dyno function and not questioning numbers. Just interested as to how people are testing and quoting MX bike figures and what the manufacturers quote.
@@RBGgermanKX250F ktm quotes countersprocket at stp. I’d rather be low and over deliver when we sell our race packages, which happens quite often for us.
When you zero'd out the value's, what positions were you working from ? the stock maps that come on the app vary quite a bit
You lost me. All zeros is all zeros
hello what is the best tune map for yz250f 2019? MXA MAP is match ? thank you im a novice rider her in japan hope you can recommend me thank you so much 😊
@@briantanaka2185 our video shows
the results
@@HPRaceDevelopment yes i try your MXA MAP this coming event !
@@briantanaka2185 we didnt think it was best - i think dyno charts show stock to be best
@@HPRaceDevelopment hard hitting you mean?
@@briantanaka2185 none of the “maps” amount to hardly any change in performance. the oem “tuning” doesnt do hardly anything the actual maps
I have a problem with this 2022 yz250f .
When I’m riding in fifth gear with quarter throttle the exhaust glow red any suggestion ?
Probably normal, exhaust gasses creat lots of heat, it makes headers glow in many cases
How far have you tested the power tuner app? What happens if you take the hard hitting map and add 2+ timing and fuel everywhere
i guess what I'm asking is, you can go as high as +7 or as low as -7 but I see no maps pushed that high. Will the bike gain power with say a dt1 high flow kit, fmf 4.1 system, some renegade pro4, and pushing the maps higher than what we normally see?
why do you think “pushing the app”
will make more power. plus just means more fuel or ignition. The bike overall is too rich anyways. more fuel hurts power. the bike already makes max power at stock ignition. more ignition hurts power….
do you have any mods? simple so the 2022 or 23 yz250f can compete with the 2023 ktm 250 i watched your videos and it's stronger the ktm250 through almost the entire power band. A friend of mine wants to improve his yz250f but without losing reliability here in Mexico we only have 91 octane pump gasoline.
Best value is a air filter kit and air box cover we can sell. After than it becomes pricey. Next would be dual injector and ECU kit
So is stock map zeros across the board ?
Yes
Did I see somewhere you were going to have air of mod dyno videos?
we post all sorts on all sorts of brands
@@HPRaceDevelopment sorry. Auto correct got me. I thought I read in one of the comments that you guys were going to post a video on dynoing power flow kits with aftermarket air box lids. What kind of power are you seeing on stock bikes with just a power flow (twin air or no toil) and a air box lid with extra intake holes and extra height over factory?
2022 yz250f is the bike in question
@@foxracing16after yamaha pulled their bullshit I dont feel the need to give them any press
@@foxracing16 previous reply accurate - but you can get 1 hp or so
Very informative video..
Where can I find all the maps?
for what
Nice!
what's the best map u recommend
did you watch? What map looked best power wise?
@@HPRaceDevelopment
yes thank u
@@charlesclapper8982 ok, I like POWER!!! On 250’s that’s what matters most. If the bike feels TOO aggressive for you, then the smoother/slower mapping is a great way to tame it down. On 450’s most owners need a way slower map!
@HP Race Development
ya I like the aggressive
The maps don’t seem to do much. Any point messing with it unless you do airbox or engine mods?
How much can you get out of a vortex or full Get ecu tune on a stock bike?
What we have learned is the ignition “steps” in the yamaha tuner are small. My educated guess is each 1 equates to .2 degrees - which is essentially nothing. On the fuel side - its bigger steps - 1 is around 3 percent. We will have future videos but on a stock bike with parts - but no ecu is worth huge gains. Yamaha isnt dumb and employs really smart people with really bad ass testing equipment. they do motogp bikes etc…
We have a video going up of airbox changes - without a doubt the best dollar per gain thing on any bike Ive ever tested.
I changed the map to the "EXCITING POWER" from Yamaha website and it does makes a noticeable difference, find myself in 3th gear instead 2th in some corners. not sure how it relates to HP but on the track it is a good tool, especially since it's free.
@@husqvarna199 It makes very little difference….if you went back to std you would find you can do the same without the change. The reality is the difference it makes can be done the same but opening the throttle 2-3 percent more in that situation.
@@HPRaceDevelopment Did you try the maps yourself on the track?
@@husqvarna199 Yep. Multiple riders. I can assure you the difference is extremely small. In my opinion the aggressive maps felt snappier in no load rev, but slower all around under load. Certainly top feels longer - it’s just slower and doesn’t hit limiter as quick
is it 2021 or 2022
Same engine 21 and 22 no changes