Runner's Knee Injury Discussion Starter
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Yes, a bout with Runner's knee has emerged in my lead up to the Houston Marathon. Pain scale puts me at about a 3 out of 10 on most runs, not too bad but I certainly would prefer to train pain-free leading into this last effort at an Olympic Marathon Trials Qualifier. We will overcome!
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SO MANY COMMENTS, THANK YOU! I've been very busy today but I will read through and reply to as many as possible tonight. I'm so grateful for all of your insights.
Work that posterior chain, buddy ;>) Especially before your easy run days, because when you're running slower you're mostly using the quads, so the hamstrings/glutes can recuperate a little. I know you're getting ready for Houston, so I'm not saying do some massively hard weights and you probably don't want to incorporate deadlifts now before Houston, but I'd highly recommend you use that machine in your gym to do leg curls in order to exercise the hamstrings. My knees always feel better after doing that. Good luck in Houston!!
you hit a great deal on how to improve runners knee. I may be wrong but i added one more thing that no one mentions in any video i have seen. Quite a different way to deal with runners knee is to use an extra layer of sole insert in the opposite leg of the runners knee. Do 3 days and then switch to the opposite leg (one with runners knee.) One extra insert will temporarily bring balance and soften the impact. It really works and it also helps with hamstring too and other leg pains...
Hi Seth. I had a mild runners knee at the start of this year accompanied with a mild plantar fasciitis, both on my left leg. I went to a physio early on to prevent it from going out of control and he prescribed a couple of exercises to do for the knee.
1. One legged squat hold for 30 seconds, repeat 3 times, once per day. I usually do this next to an open door so i can hold on to the door frame just for stability. While standing in front of the door, I hold (not too firm) on the door frame, raise my right leg and then bend my left leg until it's near 90 degrees. From there I hold in that position for 30 seconds and then stand up. Rest for 30 seconds and then repeat. Once I got used to the 30 seconds, I increased the hold to 45 seconds at a time and later to 60 seconds. The physio says elite runners might do this exercise and hold for as long as 2 minutes but that's extreme.
2. Second exercise is just one legged controlled stand and sit starting from a sitting position (10 times), twice per day. So I would sit on a chair, raise my right leg and then slowly stand using just my left leg. Once I'm standing, I'd then slowly sit back back in a controlled manner (not just letting gravity do the work).
These were the two foundation exercises I did and he added other, more advanced exercises later but I felt these two were the ones which helped the most, and my knee has been fine ever since then allowing me to train without discomfort and improve my HM PB from 1:47 to 1:34 just this year alone. My Physio also suggested not upping the mileage too much per week as the knee doesn't like surprises.
Can't believe I actually came back to this video in 2022 ha! I've just recorded about 70sh STEEZY miles in my Nike Invincibles but failed to rotate my selection for 800m and 400m fast-paced workouts (normally use Saucony Speed 2 or Nike Next). The Invincibles felt extremely squishy and slightly unstable due to how wide are. My left knee definitely felt the difference the next morning. "RICE" treatment and understanding where the pain points were have made it easier to make better-informed workout decisions in my planning.
This video took it back to basics and it has helped. Shoutout to Steve for wherever he is practicing physical therapy today!
I once had the knee pain caused by a tight IT band, and the video Jeff over at Athlean-X did on that was a miracle worker.
Oh man this set me back six months last year. The best solution I found was strength training with resistance bands. Such as monster walks and other hip exercises with the bands. I also went to see three masseuses and one physical therapist and eventually I found a few stretches that relieved it. I also bought a massage gun and the only thing that I felt work the best was the resistance bands to strengthen the hips. Have a good one Seth!
I had a light IT-Band Syndrome a few years ago when increasing volume for my first ultras. That's when I bought my first foamroller. I got rid of the pain in a few weeks rolling out my IT-Band, hamstrings, quads, calves and glutes. Greetings from Salzburg/Austria!
Hi Seth, I am a physical therapy student as well and what you two are discussing is called an jumpers knee (as we know it in holland). When we say a runners knee is usually aching at te lateral side of the knee at the insertion of the iliotibial band. Correct me if i am wrong or maybe we just call is different but this is what I know about it.
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. It is very inspiring to see and maybe one day i wanna start my own channel about running as well!
I was thinking the same, I believe you are correct. Runners knee is generally a lateral issue from ITB issues.
Ype Kerkstra , very true (also from Holland)
Seth, Love your channel.
I had ACL surgery twice (left leg) when I was 40. I'm 67 and have been a racing cyclist and runner. My left leg never had the strength or flexibility of my right leg after the surgery. Bingo! Imbalance. This past spring, as I came across the finish line in a 5K my left leg tightened up (acl leg). I hobbled around for several weeks with runners knee. Then I did physical therapy for three months (three times a week). Much improved...but still not 100%. So, I started aqua-jogging and using the spinning bike. No pounding and no pain. Voila!!!! I did a very slow 5 mile run yesterday, running the grass as much as possible. I'm baaaaack! Get in the pool! Cross-train and run only twice a week (most on a soft surface). This worked for me. CYA at Cooper River Bridge Run.
A few months ago, I couldn't run more than 5 km because of pain in the knee. The pain was located at the outside of the knee (probably IT-band) and it only started after 3-4 km, but quickly became unbearable. Frustrated, I would keep on running which just made it worse and worse. Often, I had to walk home a considerable distance. After reducing my training more and more, I eventually decided to completely stop running for a while and concentrate on other things. I went swimming to keep up my endurance and did different bodyweight exercises, something which I mostly neglected before. I also massaged the knee every day. I don't know whether this helped, but it allowed me to monitor the progress (or lack of) because I could "feel" the pain when pressing certain areas on the outside of the knee. Five weeks later, I felt it got much better and carefully ran 7 km, always expecting the pain to kick in suddenly. But to my great relief, nothing happened. After that, I gradually increased the training again and was simply grateful for every run. Again 5 weeks later, I managed to not only run a previously planed half-marathon, but also to improve my personal best by a few minutes. I think the swimming and the exercises really helped me to become a better runner. Ironically, I am not sure if I had achieved this without the runners knee.
So this is my runner's knee story (I should add though that it has never been officially diagnosed by a doctor). My best wishes to everybody who struggles with this. Obviously, my "strategy" is not feasible if you have an important race coming up and only a few weeks to go.
QOD: The “couch stretch” helps me so much for runner’s knee! Couch stretch and hip, glutes strengthening.
j k I just recommended this stretch to him a few days ago on his hip opening video. Such a good multipurpose stretch/opener
Yes to couch stretch. Could definitely help, but take it slow. Your hip flexor could be tight too and probably your glute. Just somethings to check. Google Kelly Starrett / The Ready State...he just put out a new couch stretch video.
QD: Runners Knee - I have spent the best part of two months recovering, to keep this as short as possible.
Diagnosed by a physio therapist...
The problem in my case was targeted on the right hand side of my right kneecap, intense pain while running and worse going downhill
The cause was my IT band being very tight combined with weak glutes (in particular the right)
The resolution is very similar to some exercises demonstrated in this video, in addition:
Squats focusing on glutes to spring back up, also trying to tear the ground apart with your feet while performing the motion.
Clams using bands, while laying on your side raise the upper knee while keeping your feet together (progression adding weight).
Bands around the knees and slowly side stepping with knees bent and feet forward.
More fun stuff:
Jacuzzi with powerful jets blasting your glutes, IT band and knee.
Foam rolling lots... your already an expert at this!
Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.
I had it for over 3 months, no running. Tried to strenghten my butt, cause that was supposed to work. Didnt work for me at all. Ended up using 12 needles in each leg, really stiff the nect day. Could barely walk up some stairs. Next day after that, it was all gone. Amazing.
Hope you can recover a lot faster than I did!
My secret to fixing Runner's Knee is to work the posterior chain, i.e., the hamstrings, the gluteus maximus, erector spinae muscle group, in order to balance out all the work my quads have done... And one of the best exercise to restore this balance is the deadlift.
I can have such sore knees that it's difficult to squat down; however, if done properly you can squat down, using the proper deadlift technique, and for the most part only use the posterior chain and have no pain in the knees during the exercise.
I can go running all week, to the point of having sore knees, go in the gym and deadlift 360lbs (emphasis, not squat, but I do go down just as much as if I'm sitting in a chair) with no knee pain; furthermore, I believe it helps my knees recover faster, because I'm putting balance into my leg strength. There are other exercises, but that is my favorite.
Jumpers knee and Runners knee are different, you should read *ANATOMY FOR RUNNERS* by Jay Dicharry it's not written super technical and easy for anyone to understand. It can help find the specific issues and what to do and why to do and not do certain things. It's game changing. Videos unfortunately do not help individuals with specific issues, however I am also documenting my journey with this book on my channel.
I also enjoyed Anatomy for Runners. However, my ideas to fix my knee issues came from Katy Bowman’s Move Your DNA. I started out just wanting to have my everyday life pain free. www.nutritiousmovement.com/
I don't wanna read the book just tell me how I can get rid of Osgood schlatter. I'm 15, been running less, rolling more, icing, stretching, massaging etc. I've had it for like 3 years but it only started hurting more often a year ago. I've grown quite fast and am pretty tall and do feel like I have weak hips knees etc. When I bump the lump it kills but 90% it's fine. Help.
Just bought this, thanks for the recommendation.
Thanks for the recommendation, bought it as well.
SteveO is the man! Good to see him on the vlog again. I occasionally get the runners knee when volume gets high. When I reduce volume it generally goes away.
My Patella issue was resolved in 3-4 months. My main issue was that my weak quads kept pulling my patella to one side causing the aches. Rolling the tips of the quads with a rolling pin helps too for loosening up the tight muscles. With exercise I did single leg balances on a upside down bosu ball, squats 50-100 reps on a upside down bosu ball. It was a gradual and slow recovery, don't be discouraged it will heal 100% My current injury is achilles tendon. I feel like this one is tougher as the recovery time/feeling is so sporadic. Best of luck to you Seth!!
QD: ive been dealing with this for 2 months now. Ive been doing the exercises you guys demonstrated plus a couple others. Basically focused on building strength in my glutius minimus which in turn helps with hip and knee stability. Ive noticed lots of improvement but if i take a few days off from doing those exercises i will get back to square one real quick. Consistency is key! Excited to try the taping method Steve used. Thanks for sharing!
Stabilization exercises. I have a very busy life as does everybody but I kept it simple. Split squat holds and step back lunge holds alternating 90 degrees holding back and 90 degrees holding the knee in a step up position. Each day before my workouts, reps of 10 each for a 10 count each. Granted it just worked for me and what was best for me, was back in two weeks steady in four weeks.
I recently had a collection of knee related issues, with runner’s knee being the primary one. Obviously reducing mileage is helpful. My 2 top additional tips:
1: implementing a run/walk interval scheme for my runs. A 5 min run/30 sec walk, allowed me to keep mileage up, as it gave my overly strong muscles a chance to relax and pull my knee less, and my weak muscles a chance to reenergize and last longer, not just burn out and cause pain 2 miles in.
2: address lateral strength/stability imbalances in the leg/knee, hips, and core with banded and single leg workouts, and various side planks and banded glute exercises, such as clam shells.
Only watching now Seth, had chronic patellar tendinitis 10yrs ago, ended up getting dry needling done on it which set me back loads. Most beneficial thing I found was eccentric squats on an incline board. 3 Sets of 15 reps.
🙋🏼♂️ I had runners knee. Did the exercises like Steve mentioned and crosstraining (cycling, swimming) everyday. After 2 weeks slowly started running again (5 km run, 2 days crosstraining, 5 km run, 1 day crosstraining, 1 day rest... double the distance in next week) and it helped!
I still keep the excercises in my rotation 3x a week 👍
Hope this info helps!
Great, always love to hear things like this :D
QOTD: I've had it before. I was able to train through it but I could barely bend my knee as it hurt real bad. Quads are probably really tight as all of your quad muscles go the the tibial tuberosity. In fact, the patella is totally encased inside of the quadricep tendon. I roll my quad a ton as it loosens the quad up. And when I say roll it I mean for 2 hours a day which is a lot of time and extremely tedious but has been very effective for me. Stretching the quad will also stretch the injured tendon which will end up slowing recovery. Those hip and knee exercises are good and will help.
Heating before and icing after will help. Only ice if it actually hurts after the run.
I've had it a few times, and have avoided it now for a while so I feel like an expert of it (for my own body at least). Total rest wasn't the answer I found. Initially a bit of rest is good, but then I find I need some active rehab. Essentially doing anything which worked the quads but didn't bring on knee pain. Exercises included leg raises with toes pointed up or to the side (held for 10-20 seconds x3-5 times each leg). Decline one leg squats - gently lowering down only, not pushing back up with the bad leg. And easy running, starting with maybe 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes... etc. - aiming to run as long as I can handle before the pain sets in (as it inevitably would if i kept going). The trick was knowing when to expect the pain to start and to stop just before that. Daily running like this was the best way to come back to running, but may need some of the other exercises first.
Preventative measures are best, and I now know how it feels before I get struck with it so I can avoid it. If I have a quad busting race or workout, I will go easy on the quads and be wary of how they feel so that the weakness doesn't transfer to the knee. This means if my quads are very sore, no more hills, reduced mileage, no sustained fast running (some seems ok, a half session of intervals, for example).
I've had PFPS and I did a lot of research on the internet. Some of the things people are talking about here is actually patellar tendonitis. It's a bit similar to PFPS but it's more of sharp pain and doesn't go away (think of it as an actual injury). PFPS is more like something that only comes up when you stimulate (think of it as having a low tolerance envelope to workload).
The most helpful article I've read is on this painscience website and I had to pay like $20 for the book. But the points it makes are basically as follows:
1 - there is no clear understanding of what causes PFPS, what exactly it is, etc. There are a lot of hypotheses out there, such as tracking issues etc, but really to this day no research has had clear evidences.
2 - what the book suggested was that the PFPS is more like an envelope and the idea he suggested was to increase this envelope. You have to basically rest til it's completely painfree, and then increase the load little by little.
What I did was resting for like 4 months, and then I only run on the soft surfaces like track and increased my load very carefully each week. It's a very tough injury indeed and could actually take more time to come back than fractures. I was training for half marathon at the time and I tried to run through it but gave up about a month to go.
I've been in the same boat much of the early part of this year, and I had similar symptoms: Pain going up/down stairs and pain increasing the slower I ran. To address it, I spent a lot of time in PT, which included the weighted knee extensions, glute bridges and lots of single-leg exercises. What helped the most was daily exercise. As you said when discussing ultrasound, it was important to get blood to the area so walking and easy jogging daily helped with that, whereas too much rest didn't help much--the knee felt good after days of resting, but would start hurting again right away when I tried running again. I also kept the quads loose by doing couch stretches, standing quad stretches and frequent foam rolling--which included foam rolling before the run. I would also stop and quad stretch mid-run whenever pain started to set in--that helped a lot. Lastly, I kept my routes as flat as possible since hills, particularly downhills, were problematic.
QD: Yes I have had runner's knee. The best remedy for ME was to work on some lower body exercises. Step up and air squats or very low weight squatting, knee extension. I've also found that the pain goes away during the times I run the trails the most. I think the trails make my knees better.
EDIT: BTW, I have asymptomatic osgood schlatters.
The non weighted extension with squeeze and hold at the top is effective. Also, be sure to do your bridge (1 and two legged) with the knees together AND apart slightly. You'll feel the difference. Also static squats held for 30 to 60 seconds x 2-3. Lots of stretching particularly your quads and inside(groin). Cheers!
Suffered from this after a successful second marathon. Took time off, saw a physio to address running technique and build leg strength. I’m now up and running again - feeling stronger and happier for it
I suffered Patellar tendinitis just over 4 weeks before NYC marathon 2018. It kicked in at the beginning of peak week and I ended running about 5 more miles in the following weeks which took away more fitness than expected. I had physio therapy to get me to a point that I could at least manage the pain and taped up my knee for the race - I had been advised to drop out and give myself 8 weeks at least to recover and work on my hip strength. I was never going to miss NYC but the tape came off at mile 9 and the pain took over before half way went from a 3.45 predicted time to just over 5hrs - I had to walk for the first time ever in a race. I think the fear of the pain meant that I didn't run a little again for 6 months and over a year later I am planning to start again in the new year. It really was a big deal for me.
QD: Experienced patella tendinitis. Took 3 months off from running (between xc and track). Reason? Over-strong quads and weak hamstrings caused imbalance in tendon pulling, creating inflammation. Remedy? Phys therapy to strengthen hamstrings and hips.
I used to have a 'sore knee', staying out of any sort of clinical jumper versus runner versus .. diagnosis call. It was my right knee with a sharp pain across the front of the knee only when I was 'loading' it such as running for a while; otherwise no pain either knee. I'm 64, retired from business and been out of competitive sports for years but was extremely competitive at the international level back in the 70's - not running but I had to do a lot in training! Anyway, I had a physio guy here a few years ago, a guy who used to be a US national team physio - also not an athletics team, look at me and after checking me out he said my specific problem was my upper & lower leg muscles (all of them) needed more 'stretch' / range; must be old age!! Overall my body was ok, which is the first thing to confirm, but my knee pain problem was basically when I was running different leg muscles were exerting abnormal pressure / 'pulling' on my right knee (cap). Everything is connected to everything - right! After a little (very) lightweight (very) leg exercises, mainly leg presses which I don't do so much of anymore, a little rest, and a lot of upper and lower leg stretching which I *religiously* still do after *every run today* - I have no more knee issues either knee ... 'knock on wood'. IMHO there' are so many factors that could be causing pain, it's your body telling you something and sometimes someone else can help you hear what your body is trying to tell you.
QD: when feeble ilg was in HS on the XC Team had Osgood-Schlater. Essentially, i just switched sports to cycling and rock climbing and in a year it had c(om)pletely healed. at 57, have never had another knee issue. as a Wholistic Fitness Coach however, can tell you that a lack of consistent strength-based yoga and short cycles of intense progressive strength training contribute largely to serial distortion issues like PFS. 3 Things are vital IF you are unwilling to change sports to allow tissue healing and are gonna try to run through this "inner-jury" to save Houston: 1) Positive Nitrogen Balance; basically you gotta make sure your CT (Connective Tissue) is being optimally nourished and supported at the cell level which relates directly to Amino Acid availability/uptake/assimilation. 2) May have to throw in a week of less volume/more speedwork to see if that explosive/high intensity week actually re-aligns the patella/femoral distortion; ilg has seen it happen more than a few times! 3) CryoTherapy can kick the snot out of ANY tissue inflammation issue. Expensive, but could save Houston for you. would caution; unless you are earning a living by having to appear in Houston? be willing to wipe it away. re-align your long-term health with short-term performances. head bowed,
Hi Seth, I had some runners knee towards the end of winter, the biggest help I found was foam rolling the inner thigh, just incredible, also did a few days of keeping of the knee by doing some long easy bike rides, pain was completely gone after 3-4 days, I found out about the inner thigh foam rolling from one of The Running experience channel, coach Nat has some excellent videos on runners knee how to fix, good luck Seth 😀👍🏃🏼♂️🏃🏽♀️🙏
Had a base case once triggered by a longer run on snow covered sidewalks and paths that had undergone many freeze/ thaw cycles and were well cratered with footprints. Stabilizing muscles weren’t up to the task and let the knee flop around, lack of traction didn’t help.
Fix was all the normal hip stability exercises, increased tempo/shortened stride, and a break in the weather that cleared the frozen stuff.
Hi
I suffered from the runners knee and it was a nightmare! It took me 4-6 months to comeback for a proper running regime but was feeling the pain comes within the glut or sometimes the hip areas. The best way to protect yourself is to strength the core and the hip flexors by doing the bridge, clam shell, leg swings, pistol squat and the sideways walking with resistance band for at least three days a week and then let the body to take care of the correction.
WD: Yes, a few times in my running career! The exercises Steve showed you and the KT tape help for sure. Be cautious if these remedies do NOT help...there could likely be a more serious issue. In mid-September I developed pain just below the knee, tried all of the above remedies, despite which the pain increased daily. An MRI eventually revealed a tibial stress fracture (in the upper tibia, in the area Steve mentioned that young people often get Osgood Schlatter’s syndrome). Since the “fixes” are working for you, Seth, you are likely good to go! Just be vigilant and cautious. 👍👍
I had a tibial stress fracture (lower tibia) from running too much. Took 8 weeks to recover. Back to running again. One good thing to know is that it won't fracture again in the same spot since bone is now stronger at that point :) When I went to see the orthopedic, they told me I came very close to braking the bone and ending up with a rod in my leg. I ignored it for too long and was glad that I went to the doctor.
I feel your pain! I've had a tibial stress fracture, 2 x sacral stress fractures, and 2 x hip stress fractures. Obviously, I run a lot easier than I used to now. It's never worth pushing yourself to the breaking point (literally).
I have this several times a year on the knee that I had surgery on over 30 years ago. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of taking Aleve for too long which created ulcers. Been struggling with runners knee for a couple of months. Definitely have more pain with running slow. I’ve noticed the more I rollout my quads the better it feels. This is a very timely vlog for me.
QOD: I have had knee problems over 20 years and two years ago, i had some xrays and was told that i have osteoarthritis in my knees. I did physiotherapy for several months. However, this year I began to run more (ran first marathon Dec 1) and the pain came back so I took to youtube for advice. What I did was 1) change my cadence (from 165 to 180) - this helped immensely, and then the best exercise that helped was 2) a simple exercise i got from youtuber Adam J. Story "The Best knee exercise for arthritis.." which basically involved just sitting on my desk and dangling legs over the desk with 7kg ankle weights. So helpful. Good luck Seth!
I feel your pain! Like most runners, I've had a host of injuries through the years, including a long bout with PF. The worst (and longest healing) are stress fractures. I've had a tibial stress fracture, 2 x sacral stress fractures, and 2 x hip stress fractures. Obviously, I run a lot easier than I used to now. It's never worth pushing yourself to the breaking point (literally). I'm happy to have started my running UA-cam channel to focus some of my running energy. My orthopedic threshold is right around 70 mpw. Any higher than that and I start getting niggles everywhere. 🙄Ugh, the life of a runner! 😂
Dealing with this since 6 months now. No pain during runs but when sit for 2+ hour. Tried a bit of everything but the most helpful things have been quad stretching (A LOT) and glutes and hamstring strenghtening (as well as tons of patience) .
My advice from my experience is: do not give for granted you know how to do stretching properly. Buy a book or better ask a fisiotherapist to look at you.
Good luck to you all.
I had this for 2 years, now pain free 8 years , you've got a muscle imbalance need to make the legs stronger especially the vastus medialis , cycling, lunges half squats, and yes taping knee helps
QOD:
I've had it, in fact, before I started running properly I had runners issue from playing soccer. Once I wanted to run I couldn't because the pain was too much. I ended up cycling for about 12 months (I wasn't in a hurry to be a runner 😊). After cycling for that much I couldn't believe I had zero pain on both of my knees.
I suppose the moral of the story here is; cross-training is as critical as the running and as critical as the rest.
Feel better!
I had runner's knee and solved the problem by introducing lower body strengthening workouts twice a week. Good luck!
I believe, after listening to the vlog today, that I have experienced runners knee. I found that stretching my quad was the first and best relief from pain. I then strengthened my overall base doing exactly the exercises shown today. Lots of stretching and then we’ll planned strength training.
I dislocated my knee cap about a decade ago. Since everything in my knee was basically off the rails, I’ve had persistent issues until about the last year. What made the difference for me was changing to minimal footwear for all of my everyday casual wear. I started with Merrell Bare Access Flex, and progressed down to stuff like the Vapor Glove and Lems Boulder Boots. This really beefed up the muscles in my feet and lower legs which stabilized my knee.
Now I can run completely pain free as long as I keep the drop in my shoes in the 0-5mm range. Once I get up to 8mm, I start getting pain and niggles again almost instantly. The angle of the foot as the drop goes up starts immobilizing joints in the foot, taking away the foot’s ability to stabilize the lower leg.
So my cure was twofold. First I had to build the strength in my foot to stabilize my leg. Second I have to wear shoes that allow my foot to perform that job uninhibited.
This was really great to read, thanks for sharing. Happy to hear you're running again.
I had runners knee last year in track season and I caught it very early so it was very minor pain but what I did to fix it was to slow it down on pace and mileage and I iced and rolled around the knee. I also decided to wear my Hoka Cliftons more around that time to reduce pounding on the legs. I made it though the season and then rested for two weeks
Those rehab exercises Steve pointed out are spot on for Runners knee. I've had it before and for me it means that my quads are pretty weak from all those miles.
I had torn meniscus surgery last year and have came back stronger than ever this year!!!!
I had the same symptoms 4 months ago. Ran on it hoping it got better with time.. Walking down the stairs became a struggle and I therefore decided to have an MRI. Long story short, stress fracture of the patella. Out of the game for months. I hope you have better luck.
QOD: I am currently suffering with runners knee too, I believe my tight glutes and lack of hip rotation are to blame. Holding stretchers for longer, working more with bands and single leg strengthening seem to be helping me.
QD: Had Runner’s Knee for a long time and the biggest things I’ve found are slamming as much rehab exercises and hip strengthening as you can handle along with icing and kt tape to prevent current symptoms while the rehab exercises should fix the issue long term!
I'm not sure if I had runner's knees but for several weeks my knees used to make a sound when I was going down stairs and thre felting was not comfortable.
I did what I was told my physiotherapy ... normally we use our quads a lot , so the should be strong ... our hamstrings , normally, are also strong enough but the internal side if our legs are usually weak since we're don't use that muscle much and then starts an unbalanced threat it's not protecting our knee as it should.
Then I started doing several different exercises , every day with bands and weight to make that muscle on my legs stronger and to caught the quads strength ... a few weeks later I was cured !
Still today I do these exercises every day just to make sure ...
Remember that people when the go to the gym for leg day , they work a lot the quads>hamstrings >>>>caffs >>>>and almost no specific exercises to isolate the huge muscles on the opposite side of our quads.
had it, for a temporarily fix i used a strap just below the knee bone, which stopped the knee cap from moving around. my long term fix, find a bench with a height just below knee. put one leg on bench so there is a 90 degree angle from hip. then lift up straight keeping one leg on bench then lower to ground. 12 repeats per let with 3 sets. making sure your knee tracks straight. then after time i added weight the key is having knee track straight
Seth I use stretching band this is really working for me, at my age 59 my knees are wearing down. Run on
Had runners knee very bad after my first marathon in 2018. 2 months of pain during running. Started a tincture of CBD 8:1 ratio under the tongue after activity. Pain went away the next day and the whole year has been pain free. That and patellar tendon knee straps for the run. Cured.
QD: I’ve actually been suffering with runners knee for the past 3 months and exercises that helped overcome this was usually doing intense work to like single leg squats to aggravate the knee and I found that it makes it a lot better surprisingly. I don’t know if it was the strengthing of my quads that made my knee better or me aggravating the knee to make it better, but it eventually did get better. Some of my exercises were single leg squats, bridging, single leg bridges, strengthing of the hip flexors exercises, plyometrics, and some regular stretches around the iT band area
I also found that doing warm compressions on the knee after hard running workouts ease the pain quite a bit
Seth- I love that ‘87 broncos sweatshirt (I’m not even a broncos fan)! Best of luck with your knee.
I've been going through this since July/August. I'm finding lots of stretching and resistance band exercises. The taping didn't really work for me, but wall sits have been doing wonders for pain relief. I read about wall sits for patellar tendonitis in a fitness magazine helping runners and they've really been helping me. Still having pain though. Good luck with yours.
I've never tried this while experiencing runners knee, but after it, I always did 3 lunges forward, to the side, and backwards on each leg before runs. It helps strengthen your legs and has worked for me! Also, i didn't just come up with this, i got it from my coach who has run a 3:58 mile, so he's definitely experienced in running. I would try it, as I haven't gotten runners knee again!
I got a lot of runners knee issue! Every year I will get it once :) but only mild one. REST will help ease the pain but wont fix it. KT Tape helps preventing it and provides extra support while running. For me the best way is rehab. There is one workout really working for me - Wall squat. I’ll do that 6 time per day each time I hold for 2 mins.
for me, my knee issues/pain was solved by a good PT, PT treated for a muscle imbalance.....these exercises worked well, squats, lunges, deadlifts, and step-ups.
I haven't had this one, but from your impressions and explanation of the pain, I think IT band issue is more painful. I would want to cry going downstairs when I was dealing with IT band.
I suffered from it for a loooooong time! I got rid of it with single legged squats on a 25 degree decline board. It's a very mild exercise, but you have to do it consistently 2 times a day. Forefoot running also helps.
I agree Seth, you've got to figure out if this is patellar tendinosis or Hoffa's fat pad impingement. MRI may be normal in early cases of the first. Look into eccentric exercise for the first.
Eccentric leg press is great for these types of issues, I've been doing this a fair bit in my videos also.
I had runners knee a few months ago and figure it was the shoes I wore as 1 pair made my knee feel worse than others. Stopped wearing them and it felt better but still pretty painful. I saw that a tight IT Band can cause runners knee. So at this point I stopped rolling my IT band because I read that rolling it doesn’t do anything. Once I saw that I started to trigger point and do loads of foam rolling on my IT and did Hip exercises and it completely took it away. I never decreased my volume either as you know you can run through it. Just depends on how much pain you can handle too.
QD: For me, I had runner's knee due to my running gait. My right foot overpronates and I was running in neutral shoes all the time, so my right knee wasn't happy. Icing everyday helped a lot, as well as cutting back on mileage. During this time, I did a lot more lower body strength exercises since I couldn't run as much. Now I train mostly in stability running shoes. but will add a neutral shoe to my rotation occasionally.
I had it, and i did daily "eccentric decline one legged squats" and it went away, i did take 3 weeks off running though. So it could have been the running or strengthening of quads that fixed it.
Thanks Harry for chiming in!
Harry Thompson I also did this every day 5 times for 45 secs against a wall. Making sure to stretch the quads and hamstrings a lot. Kt tape did me wonders even though there’s not much science to it. Luckily mine was not severe and I was able to run well at my xc section finals and state champs. Also Dr.Hoys Arica boost (anti inflammation cream) was very good. I hope you recover well.
QD: had runner's knee after a trail running race and after lots of ice, moving the legs (biking and walking, not running) and doing LOTS of quad strengthening exercicies (slowly increasing the weight), I was able to run again pain free. I did that for a month, and after this process I reintroduced running slowly, but manteining the leg strength workouts to keep the quads strong. In my opinion, if this kind of pain happens is because your knee tendon is reciving all the pounding because the quads aren't strong enough, so we all have to include strength routines always. I have to say that my pain was 8/10 so I didn't force running again. Also, the more I stretched my quads, the worst was the pain.
Btw great video as always!
I got to a point to where the pain was about a 9 out of 10 and I couldn't put any weight on that leg while going up stairs. It felt like a gummy bear holding a knife was stuck in my knee. Ortho was pretty certain it was a torn meniscus, so got an MRI to be sure -- ended up being basically everything else possible, and thankfully not a torn meniscus (though they did find an old tear that healed on its own, lol oops). I took 6 weeks off running completely, got a Theragun G3 Pro for cheap with the Black Friday deal and several coupons and cashback deals, and that thing is great at loosening up muscles and really digging in. Exercises: ~35lb resistance band, wrap it around your back waist, step through, bring the band inside the knees, and do side-to-side straddles to near-fatigue. Bridges as shown in the video. Leaning bridges combined with single knee thrusts and 5 sec holds, variant with a box behind to lean shoulder blades and up on to reduce strain on neck. One-legged stepdowns with progressively increasing step size. Slow squats while standing on a semi-thin wooden plank. Lots of stretching, but mostly glute, quad, and hamstring basic strength work. I can now climb stairs again, somehow won a "2-miler" on Sunday by playing it smart, but it's definitely not nearly all the way back. Tight today, but not painful. I hate it, lol. I want to really run again. This will likely be a several month issue. Frustrating. I had to push out my 2019 goals, but 2020 is going to be amazing. GL training smart and well for Houston!
When all these people say they are “fixing their knees”
Remember everyone. We are not fixing ourselves. We are letting our body fix it’s self.
Damn. All I've been doing was overstriding when I run, that's why my knees were hurting. Now, I know how to run. I've improved my form so much and I'm far more efficient than I've ever been. Overall, my knees are feeling really good now. I squat 220 pounds for 8 reps. My quads are pretty strong and I'm only 5'10 and a half, 140 pounds. I definitely need to get a foam roller tho because I've been feeling so soar in my legs, usually in the last 2 miles of 13 mile run.
I know that it's the lactic acid that builds up after a long and intense workout. I usually massage the legs myself, but I just want what Seth uses, because it's so tiring doing it myself. I'm not lazy. 😅
Anyways, love your videos Seth! 👍🏼
This was years ago, but I stopped using machines, especially leg extension, focused on trying to keep my legs straighter when sitting at my desk when possible. Spin class doesn't seem to aggravate it. More trail running, and when it was a big issue I had a little strap that helped keep my knee cap from moving during my runs. The worst for me was downhill running on the road.
Seth, 🙏🏼 I hope you can keep on training well for Houston. IMHO...many many miles on pavement caused that 🤕
I had the same thing last year before my triathlon race. I did some physiotherapy and put some ice. I started also doing weights again which I stopped doing for a month. Especially the knee extension exercise and leg press.
I thought runners knee pain was on the side of the knee and came from the IT band. At least that’s what I deal with the last couple months. Knee feels much better now and was able to put 6 miles in the other day. Just in time too, I have a 50 miler in June 😬
The term “runner’s knee” does not usually refer to IT band syndrome - it is usually (but not always) used to refer to Patellofemoral pain syndrome. The pain is in the front of the knee, feeling like it’s coming from the kneecap or just behind it. Good luck training for the 50 miler.
James Minshaw oh okay. Thanks for the info and the luck lol, I think I’m going to need it lol
Hello @flex moto can you please tell me what worked for you because i have the same probleme and there is no improvements in a month and a half
ryan bsbh I took it easy honestly. Just backed off on the amount of miles I was putting in and slowed the pace. Listened to my body and I’ve been good. Big thing I guess is to not go to much too fast.
@@briand9597 i have the pain one mile in into the run and it becomes gradulaaly bloody painful gradually but everything else is pain free
I was running a 10K, with a 5K downhill, and 1Mile uphill "cardiac hill" and rest flat.. While running downhill, I heel landed the entire time. Injured my knee. Couldn't run for about 2 months... rode my bike to strengthen all the leg muscles and keep the legs in motion.
I’ve suffered PFS before. A very good friend of mine (Dr of PT) gave me a few exercises to help. Best 2 were front step downs from a workout step and also warm up with knee flex
1. Step down: keep one foot on step and make sure to keep heel planted. Step other foot down and touch heel to ground. Be aware to keep planted foot knee tracking straight. This helps to promote proper strengthening of the quads and pulls to knee cap into place
2. During my warm up before every single run. Sit on the floor, legs straight out, flex knee so back of knee touches to the floor. Hold for 2 seconds. You should feel your quads firing in the correct order
I’ve had success with KT Tape minimize the pain during my bouts and it allows me to keep training and also rehab it with less pain. But KT Tape isn’t the fix to it.
Erik Matey do I do the step downs even with pain?
@@brandonrosen4585 Start off slow and use a lower height to start if you need to.Work up to a full workout step
Hi Seth! I’ve never had Runner’s Knee, however, I have had issues with my Lower Illio-Tibial band where it attaches to the outside of the knee. My PT reduced my mileage and what wound up helping the most was a lot of heavy back and front squats. I’m currently seeing my PT again for a Soleus injury I got in a car wreck just prior to Thanksgiving. Hope your knee feels better!
A runner's knee is acutally the IT band syndrome at the side of your knee and not patellofemoral pain syndrome.
but for PFPP is works best to stretch your quads so they pull les on your knee cap and also train both your quads and hip muscles for better knee posture and function. The last thing you can do is mobilise your knee cap to help it glide better over your knee.
I've put a full quide together, including all the exercises I perform with my patients as a physical therapist myself. I hope this helps you further. Good luck in Houston :)
QD: I've been struggling with this for several months. Noticed recently that I can improve and alleviate the pain if I make micro-adjustments to my stride during my run based on if it makes my knee feel better or worse, and focus on that. This also is my strategy for going up and down stairs, to make it feel better. It has been helping, not sure if it is a cure yet though!
Be careful adjusting your stride for pain relief. Often you can strain something else by over compensating.
@@fastinradfordable Indeed, thanks. Been trying the changes very slowly, and monitoring elsewhere, before increasing volume.
Oh no! I guess it's really inevitable and hit the elites like you Seth. Hopefully the pain scale doesn't go too high anymore and you'll be pain free asap!
QD: I just suffered from runners knee earlier this year 2019 (I remember you commented on a few of my Strava runs of how the recovery was going, etc! ) when I was training for my first full-marathon. Anyway, the way overcame is strengthening, rolling, and stretching the muscles/fascia that is connected to the knee as well as its surroundings. Big one for me was strengthening and rolling my quads, hamstrings, and glutes--a lot--like morning before i head out, during lunch, and before i sleep. I would do a deep roll and foam roll for 1 hour at night. On top of it, I took I believe 2 weeks completely off, and focused on strengthening my leg and glute muscles by going slightly heavier with my squats and deadlifts as well as other glute activated exercises using freeweights at my local gym since it helps a plethora in finding and strengthening my muscle imbalances! I focused on a lot on stretching as well and hip mobility. Once I got back to some running, I implemented a run/walk intervals, after that, slow pace medium long runs, and then gradually going fast and getting back to my normal routine before the marathon. I cannot say for sure if it's gone since I have not trained as hard since my last full-marathon, but I can say that it did change my running form a little bit (in a good way) after suffering from a runner's knee since I am more mindful of my knee/leg drive and foot placement, and glute activation.
Hi. I had left knee discomfort and pain. So I went to footsolutions.ie. They checked my pronation and feet. So I overpronate and my arches collapse. I got recommended special insoles at €350, custom insoles. But are expensive. I got instead, off the shelf some German insoles at €100. After wearing them for a week, all the discomfort and pain gone. Also had back muscles pain. That’s gone too. Hopefully everything stays like that. I just ordered another pair.
I am actually dealing with Runner's Knee. I started with no weight squats, single leg squats,side lunges, hip thrusts like in the video, and i do it single hip lift reps. It has helped plenty in the last 4 weeks
One other thing I might throw in is the consistently flat grade you’ve been running on which may lead to some overuse issues. Varying the grade (i.e.hills & mountains) will help balance the legs and get more muscles involved as you were doing with all your mountain training. Even just getting into the foothills a couple times a week will help in my opinion
That is my main injury I had through the years, and My physio had me doing skow squads like your friend did, but on a slight slope (25°). that was the bulk of the exercises I needed to do, and no running untill it was totally gone..
Total idol🔥
I had runners knee in the summer I learned some strength exercises from a chiropractor for my quads and the pain dissapeared pretty quickly. I did not have to reduce my training.
I haven't had any of these issues but as a young runner I have a slightly different issue where my muscle work group in the back of the knee and hamstring are weaker in my left leg than my right leg. It makes it painful and affects my running. It has been made better from strengthening exercises but it is better now
The reason it hurts more when running slower (at least in my case), is because your stride isn't as wide, so the quads are working harder; however, when you run faster, your hamstrings come more into play and help with the load. Most people who start out running feel pain in their quads the next day, because they are running slow which makes it (jogging) a quad-dominate activity. However, watch sprinters and it's common to see hamstring injuries, that's because they use them much more than us regular runners. Muscle balance is key; work that posterior chain.
QOD: I did get knee pains but I'm not properly diagnosed. My pain is on the side of the knee and also at the hollow of the knees. I do increase my stretching and rolling. It did help but the best one is still resting.
I'm almost 30 and this is the first time I've had runner's knee. Haven't been to the doctor read that it typically takes 4-6 weeks to heal ... I read that after I went for a run 2 weeks after the injury, my knee had been feeling good for 3 days or so ... I'm just hoping my knee will heal in the next 3.
I'm 15, been running less, rolling more, icing, stretching, massaging etc. I've had it for like 3 years but it only started hurting more often a year ago. I've grown quite fast and am pretty tall and do feel like I have weak hips knees etc. When I bump the lump it kills but 90% it's fine. I'm gonna try more strengthen exercises that were in the video
QOD: currently have pfps, been doing physical therapy for 3 weeks and only able to run a quarter of my mileage or less for 5 weeks. Starting to feel better but regaining confidence in my knee will probably be the hardest part
I run for Taconic RR, we have a very strong 60's men's team and we have won the NYRR team competition for the last 2 years, unfortunately this y ear we are all banged up and not in the "running". We also have a very strong women's 50 team who have won the NYRR team competition a number of times
I’m going through some kind of knee problem now. It’s on the inside part of my right knee. I rested a few days last week and came back Sunday with a 16 mile
Run and surprisingly didn’t feel pain after. But today I had a 6 mile recovery run, I couldn’t do more then 3 miles. I feel it more today than I did yesterday after my 16 miler. So weird... I’m 2 months out of my
First marathon. I’m
Hoping this won’t be a problem. But what I think I’ve learned from the few injuries I’ve had is that it’s usually due to some neighboring muscle being tight that’s creating the problem. The best might be to take a few extra days rest. As hard as that it mentally, that’s what has helped with my knee problems when it got bad.
This video is exactly a Half Marathon in length!
I suffer with runners knee pretty often, I'd say every third run/if and when I feel knee pain I do glute work. The exercises I do are from 'The run experience' youtube channel, and I think the name of the video is something like, runners knee prevention part 1. Some really sound advice on this channel by the way.
Suffering from RK right now, mine is on the side of both knees. I realize I've been running too much too soon, with weak glutes and hams. And it's fair warning to all runners who are increasing their workload, rest well, and stretch after each run, running shortens your muscles making you less flexible.
QOD: I didn't have the typical runners knee so far, but sometimes i feel something in the inner side of the knee.
Seth - could you please make a video talking about running on empty stomach (for example in the morning, before breakfast)? What are the longterm benefits or risks for this method of running for easy runs, long runs, tempo days, intervals etc... Why should or shouldn't we do it?
Yes, runners knee in both knees at different times in 44 years of running. Different causes each knee. I bet your problem arose from high mileage fairly quickly...running doubles takes a toll too. Strenghtening, all those good PT type exercises, worked on becoming more pliable, changed form to having foot landing more under center of mass not in front of my pelvis, good forward lean, strong everything (upper body, core, hips, butt, hammys, calves, quads, shins, foot muscles, and patience. It's funny you say fast running causes no pain, that was the same for me...more midfoot/forefoot, less ground contact time I suppose? Overall, aim to run more balanced.
PS: Nice jacket ;)