Cheap Just Can’t Compete! Audio-Technica vs Michell Turntables
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2023
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Hey @cheapaudioman you should definitely mount the goldring on the AT and report back to us.
Yes!
Yes. I agree. Would the gold ring bring out the “short comings” of the AT?
No
But this video was done to suck up to the rich guys. Sorry, it’s true
@@sebastianbirch2187 how is he doing that?
Sith Audio and Michell for the win! Glad to see the Brit gear get a spin. I have a Gyro SE with the next arm up, you have a good idea what I get every time I put an LP. I met John Michell twice, both at his factory. Their ‘new’ factory is in the town I work in.
I've only met John once (at a hifi show) and he was a real gent. Even AFTER he played my Meredith Brooks 'Bitch' single :) Mind you, I think I probably got away with that as I got him to play 'Icicle' by Tori Amos first, lol
That's awesome! And the Gyro SE is just a marvelous deck. I've heard some recordings from it, and it was wonderful. I still miss my TecnoDec, but the speed drift and cost of the upgrade power supply got frustrating.
I have had a Michell Gyrodec since 2009 and basically only listen to vinyl as the sound is so good. Being a mechanical device it wont degrade with time so once bought it will last you for the rest of your life so overall it's a pretty good deal. As you said a good cartridge and phono amp are important too
Glad to have Sith Audio back!
I have a Vertere Acoustics MG-1 MkII $7,500 and it blows everything away!!
I recently compared the Michell Gyrodec with the Technics 1200GR using Goldring G1042 cartridge on both, no comparison, the Michell sounded far better. So I believe that every component at the front end can make a huge difference ( rubbish in, rubbish out)
The “I can hear it” bit you did holding the record killed me. 😂 that’s something I gotta do to my dad when we go record shopping before he buys the record. I’ll say I’m checking for quality purposes. Yup, makes sound. 😂
I look forward to your new channel "Expensive-Ass Audio Man"!
Not quite an even level playing field.. but still fascinating. As you indicated, the big test would be using identical cartridges on both turntables to see how big the differences are. I would bet the gap will be much narrower as I hypothesize that cartridges matter the most in terms of sound.
The biggest problem is that the Audio Technica is a mere shadow of the actual turntable it was trying to emulate, the mighty Technics 1200. It's very light and cuts a lot of corners even though it looks similar. IMO, too many in an attempt to get it to a price-point.
As for the one it's trying to emulate, get one of those, you're pretty much done. The downside is, of course, they are still $800 or so used. (plus cartridge) I recommend the older MK5 if you can find one. But MK 2 or MK5, even today, you will find most DJs and radio stations still using them. Note that the current MK 7 is much lighter, digital (less precise due to large steps vs fine control) , and the platter is almost a toy weight-wise. Many people say the MK2, but the tone arms on those are hit or miss, and there are various electrical gremlins and oddities if you dig deeper, especially on older models.
Not exactly "cheap audio" but if you are going to stretch the budget on one piece of gear you won't ever need to replace, this is it, IMO. Get an old classic turntable - the one everyone else copies - and ignore the hype.
Yeah, I doubt the cartridge is enough. Vibration control and speed stability makes a big difference, too.
@cheapaudioman just recently got into vinyl, purchased an RT-85 and have been loving it!! New addiction! Anyway, I am currently connecting the Fluance, to my phono inputs of my Emotiva Pre-amp and from their into my vintage Hafler XL-280 (and will be adding a second XL-280 in a few weeks). My question is this, do you feel I would benefit from an external pre-amp such as the S2 or would I be better saving for a replacement cartridge such as the E4 (or perhaps even upgrading to a better turntable)?
This is the first redo I think is a must my brother…….use the same cartridge😊❤
I have been using Moving Coil Cartridges since the 80's. I haven't changed my Turntable since the early 80's either. A Strathclyde Transcriptions 305M with a Grace 747 tonarm, and a Dynavector 23R cartridge. The Strathclyde was made to compete with the Linn Sondek LP12, someone already mentioned Linn Sondek, there IS a reason...
I used a Grace 707 arm on a Thorens TD124 I bought for $20 from a radio station converting to tape cartridges in the late 60’s that I used through high school and college. I really miss that setup, even though it needed a new motor most of that time 😂. Fantastic tracker, that tonearm.
Hi sir I have the audio-technics deck that I bought purely for playing 78s with , I also got the 78 cartridge from technics , which does a great job in this regard . My main deck is the rega p3 , so just out of interest I set the technics up first with the cartridge that came with it to play vinyl . I immediately was surprised how good it was for the money , and did wonder how far it could be improved by upgrading . Obviously this was never its intended use , but for anyone getting into vinyl it seems a very good starting point . As I stated I have the rega p3 deck , so I straight away recognised the arm on the expensive deck . So I’m wondering if my rega will its rega phono amp and the shure cartridge , might give the Michell deck a run for its money . Especially as it’s considerably more money than the P3 , at least in the Uk that is . Kind regards to your good self 👍
Thanks for your time, efforts, and review. Not into vinyl, but I am sure there are many who are. Have a great weekend, brother.
Love your conversion to vinyl! I have the next Michell up, the Gyro SE, and too me it sounds wonderful. However there are a lot of turntables around, and I suspect a good improvement over the AT can be made for less than the cost of a Tecnodek.
I would disagree on one thing though- the turntable itself makes a big difference, and simply sticking a disproportionately expensive cartridge on a cheap table is not necessarily the best way of spending limited cash, as opposed to spending more on the turntable . It's a pity you didn't try the ATC/E4 combination, you might have proved me wrong!
great video, and great news, the glorious return of SITH AUDIO, long live the king, just a question, can i find a track in a vinyl with that beautiful flashligth?
You mentioned the Ortofon 2M Blue in the video which is what I’m currently using on my turntable. Is the E4 significantly better than the 2M Blue?
Not better so much as a little different. The Ortofon is dead nuts neutral while the Goldring has a bit of a smiley curve - a touch of bass boost and a hint of extra treble. Chocolate or vanilla.
Soooooo, this is about cheaper audio gear. You just compared a Mercedes to a Camry. Pushing that aside, would it be fair to say the Ortofon or Goldring upgrade on the AT120 would help significantly?
Thanks for the video. There are many components that go into reproducing vinyl and the turntable is just one part of it. The cartridge converts the physical grooves in the record into electricity and the phono pre-amp applies RIAA equalization and boosts the relatively low output of the cartridge to a line level. For this reason, the cartridge and the phono preamp play a major part in the quality of the audio that the turntable produces. AT has been making turntables for a long time and, while most turntables use belt drive, AT has long been an expert at making direct drive turntables. Upgrade the cartridge in the AT, set the AT to bypass the built-in preamp, and use an external preamp and then lets see how it compares to the Michell. Upgrading the cartridge and using an outboard phono preamp certainly adds to the cost but if you spend $800-$1000 on the AT turntable + cartridge + phono preamp, I think you will get a setup that is more than adequate for most people and comes much closer to the Michell. Plus, you can start with the basic setup and then upgrade over time.
I have an AT120X-BT. Love it! Try it with an AT VM540ML cart. Awesome! I would love to see a video of you trying different AT styli(🤔?) with that turntable.
I have a gyrodec. It is a fantastic object and sounds great.
Have you tried putting an Ortofon Black cartridge on the Audio-Technica and seeing what a difference that makes? I think you'll be amazed at what a difference it makes and at about 25% all in compared to the Michell that you might not be able to hear that much difference. Now that I would really be interested in knowing what you think.
Yep, all you need a table to do is be quite and steady on speed. And to not color the signal till it reaches the phono preamp. If it does that it is a good turntable. The cartridge and speakers make all the difference in my experience
@@budsmoker4201120 while speakers and cartridge are the voice of the system, it does have to be a system, because you will never sound better than the weak link among the components . the tonearm is critical and often overlooked , because it is always attached to starter tables, and doesn't spin around attracting attention.
I have the Audio-Technica AT-LP120XUSB turntable and am running the signal through a Schiit Mani phono preamp. Upgrading the AT-VM95E cartridge with the AT-VMN95ML (micro line) stylus for $149 was a really big improvement.
Is it possible to change a tonearm as well?
Glad to see you have Sith Audio back as a sponsor.
Guess what you'll never see, anywhere? A double-blind test with multiple selections to reduce chance guesses (at least 20) between two turntables with identical setups -- same cartridges, feeding into the same amp, playing through the same speaker, playing copies the same album, with those album copies randomly switched between the turntables. If there REALLY are audible differences between the turntables, it would be statistically obvious. But you'll NEVER see this done because, surprise, those magic audible differences don't exist. People will talk about "bigger sound stages" and "fuller sound" but they'll ONLY say this when they KNOW which turntable is playing.
I just bought a Tecnodec with a T3 tonearm and used the Rega Exact cartridge that was mounted on my Planar 3 and the difference is stunning. The Michell is more dynamic, punchy, faster. It plays music!!! Great review by the way! Love your channel!
It's time for a Nagaoka MP-200/Goldring E4 cartridge shootout, both about $400.
I loved my TecnoDec. I loved it so much I got an Audiomods Classic tonearm to go on it. Gorgeous deck (the plinth is just acrylic, by the way), beautiful to the touch, wonderfully quiet DC motor.
The one really big irritation that I had with it was speed drift. The speed would just not stay set, and with the OEM power supply you would have to open up the power supply WHILE IT WAS PLUGGED IN, and stick a screwdriver into it to dial in the speed adjustment. Then if you checked the speed again next time it might be different and you'd have to do that YET AGAIN. The aftermarket HR Power Supply has an externally accessible speed adjustment, but that thing is currently $1000 USD! It was "only" $750 when I was looking at it, but it was still far too much for me to blind buy for the sake of supposed improved sound and manual speed adjustment without risk of electrocution.
After that, I lucked into a VPI Scout Jr., and also wound up lucky that the tonearm mounting screws provided just barely perfect centering for my Audiomods arm. With various other tweaks I did get that deck to sound better than the TecnoDec, and with reliable self-correcting speed with a Phoenix Engineering Falcon motor controller (long discontinued) and DIY equivalent of the Roadrunner. The motor was (well "is", as I still have it) always louder, as synchronous AC motors by their nature produce more vibration than DC motors. So noise floor was a little higher and required a lot of careful vibration handling to lessen it. But this setup was always a little "fragile", between my DIY Roadrunner with wires sticking out all over, and the VTA lock on my gorgeous sounding Audiomods arm needing extremely precise pressure to prevent the base from dropping down and losing my VTA setting if it was too loose, or muddying up the sound if it was tightened too much. Upgrading the motor and controller for this is still possible (the Sota Total Eclipse), for noise floor similar to the TecnoDec's and none of that mess from my DIY Roadrunner, but that setup is currently listing for $1500 alone. *blink*
So more recently I bought a Technics 1210GR to try out. With a couple of tweaks (some free, some pricey), it now outperforms each of those other decks with the same cartridge, it keeps all its settings without concern, and speed is just rock solid. An upgraded phono cable is definitely important, as it sounded awful with the provided interconnect, but just an Audio Sensibility Impact phono cable should do anyone just fine. And even with that cable, this deck is cheaper than the TecnoDec alone (though not as pretty). It's also the only one with a fluid damper mod available for helping it track less than perfect vinyl. The Technics is the least pretty by far, and I still love and miss my belt drive decks, but the 1200GR Just Works. A Technics 1500C is probably the single best back for the buck deck out there at the moment, with nearly all of the necessary functionality of the 1200GR but also with a built-in phono preamp.
Thanks for this nostalgia trip, though. I really do miss that TecnoDec. The speed issues were infuriating, but it was such a beautiful looking and sounding deck.
Wow this was very helpful. Now I'm having second thoughts on the Tecnodec. What tweaks did you apply to the GR to outperform the Tecnodec? You think you got bad luck with the Tecnodec's motor or is it a well-known problem?
@@gabrielbacca381 The TecnoDec is a wonderful turntable! My only gripe was with the speed consistency. I would have kept it if I had the room for it and if I didn't need to money for other things at the time. Perhaps your situation will be different, but whenever I got the speed close to accurate, then left it alone for a while and came back to it, the speed would be inaccurate again. Not during playback, but just over time.
The NEWER Technics decks can sound reasonably similar to the TechnoDec when torque is set to the lowest level, the "Reset" button next to the speed adjuster is turned off, and with a decent phono cable upgrade. The advantage of the Technics beyond that is reliable speed. I don't know if the new GR2 is actually audibly better than the outgoing GR, but it shouldn't be worse.
If you can help it, keep the TecnoDec. I miss mine. If I weren't so nitpicky about accuracy (due to my archiving vinyl to hi-res digital) it would still be one of my favorites.
@@packgrog just to clarify, I don't own it yet, I am/was thinking of buying it. Thank you so much for your insights. I live in Canada so any support/warranty might also be limited. Greetings,
Not every Vinyl sounds great. A lot depending on the recording and pressing. Always good to have option to play both analog and digital media.
Loved listening to 'Ella and Louis' on CD ripped on to the hard drive of the Naim HSX.
Then got a turntable. Second hand SME10 running a £100 Moving Magnet. For the first time, I had an emotional connection. Listening to humans, not to facsimile of humans.
99% of people, me included, don't know what instruments sound like. But the human voice, we do. Apply that test, and digital doesn't cut it.
I just bought the Michell Technodec. Listened at the store and was so blown away I switched from my original choice of a Technics 1200GR2 to the Michell. Listening to this thing was like . . . perfection. That's it. Definitely a reference turntable. Brought out the richness of any of the LPs I had on hand (used only Patti Smith and Neil Young). I decided on the Ortofon 2M Bronze based on the guidance of the turntable guy at the store. The E4 seemed to lack the crystal clear highs that I wanted. Don't get me wrong, the E4 was solid, but I had a setup that used to be crystal clear on the highs that I was trying to match. A Gerrard 100 paired with a Pickering. I do believe I bettered my original setup.
It's okay Randy,
We all know You couldn't resist buying the Michell Tecnodec.
No need to make a video to justify it. 🤣😋
All kidding aside, I enjoy Your channel. Thank You, sir
thank you so much, my friend!
Vinyl better than digital! Is that a surprise? My vinyl chain is obviously better than my digital chain. Digital: iPhone Apple Music (lossless) - AirPlay - Wiim Mini (bit perfect) - Denifrips Aries II (total component cost ~$2100 - including the iPhone). It sounds awesome! Vinyl: Turntable u-turn Theory - Ortofon Bronze cart - Bottlehead Eros II phono preamp (total component cost ~ $2100). It sounds, super obviously, way more awesome! My wife, not an audiophile by any means, summed it up nicely when comparing vinyl to digital, "It sounds flat." The flat sounding "it" is digital.
Without a parametric equalizer and subsonic maximizer by BBE It will be very hard to get a good sound, especially if you don't have total digital albums. No need for these real expensive Turn tables, they don't even have Speed Controls on them. Thet audio technical 120 With the blue
ortofon Stylist it's all you need.
I really do keep a little maglight near my deck to check for crud on the stylus during an evening vinyl session
Darn, now I need one.
Mister Clean Magic Eraser for keeping crud off your stylus. If you're not aware of this, do a search. Great way to keep your stylus clean. I recommend dipping your stylus into it 3-4 times after each side. It works and costs pennies.
I'll watch ANY "turntable" review! 😅🤘🏻 weather or not I could afford "said" turntable is a different story!
The levitating turntable is the coolest thing
This is just the beginning of a vinyl greatness. Now that you got a taste of a somewhat hi end turn table, wait until you try a truly hi end phono stage.
I could not agree more, I would love for this comparison to have been using the same cart/stylus and preamp on both decks.
Sith Audio is Back!!!!!! 🖖👏 And yeah..... turntables....
Im pretty much all about streaming these days but still believe a good vinyl set up cant be beat. Dynamics, richness, and weight of the sound just seems better on vinyl/turntable in my opinion. That Michell TT looks beautiful, i would love to give it an in home listen. Great video today 👏
Just starting into vinyl and my question is why unlike cassette decks or amplifiers or any other component you can't hardly find the frequency response stats?
Glad you have discovered the benefit of splashing the cash on Vinyl playback. I have the top of the line Michell Orbe. I also suggest you get a top DD in to compare such as the Technics 1200G. I also suggest exploring even more expensive phono stages for MC. Maybe if you tried an AT MC it would be more to your liking. Beats me why they don't produce a serious TT when they make great high end cartridges. I rarely listen to digital sources with fine vinyl playback available.
The OG Michell Gyrodec SE has been on my end-game wishlist since the 90s. It's such an iconic, striking design.
Since you didn't have 2 of the same carts you should have swapped the carts and I'd be willing to bet that the AT would have sounded better than the high dollar unit. IMHO the cart makes far more difference than the turntable as long as you use the same electronics after the Turntable. The turntables job is to mostly minimize any outside influence and play consistently at a given speed. Expensive tone arms do give a better ability to fine tune a cart and is also more important than the turntable drive for fine tuning.
As does the underlying noise signature (or lack of) of the motor, bearing, platter, mat, plinth and isolation feet (if any).
The key to a good turntable is a good main bearing, the Michell bearing is a superior piece. A hidden design advantage is that the circulating oil avoids wear , so the performance should last many lifetimes. A good arm allows optimization of cheaper cartridges. since cartridges are a consumable item, putting the money in an arm is a long term strategy to save money, if incremental system building is a goal.
I'm using a 1998 Technics sl-1200 MK5 with ortofon 2m black LVB250 with project tube box s phono preamp.... Very curious how that would stack up against a $4,000 turntable. Just recently went from ortofon 2m Black to LVB250 and the difference was very dramatic. Like I had a new integrated amplifier. Been listening to a lot of jazz music but this cartridge has me digging back out my rock and roll!!!!
Is the Goldring E4 significantly better than the classic Shure V-15 type 5 MR? Love this cartridge for tracking and warmth/musicality. PLEASE Advise!!!!!
I'd be hard pressed to beat the Type V's tracking ability or neutrality, except for its soft treble. It's not the last word in transparency but if you can find an OEM stylus, it's quite decent.
@@1mctous I’m using a Jico SAS replacement stylus. When I replaced the original, it seemed a bit brighter. The commentary on the SAS suggested this was a common opinion. Using it on a Denon DP-61F turntable.
How much are the Sith Audio audiophile batteries for the flashlight?
depends what level you want. They start at $99 but can go up to 499 if you want the high current ones
I hear they cost $799.99 ...
@@NeilBlanchard As they should!
I have a Michell Alecto power amplifier and it is brilliant
This would have been more usefull had you used the same MM cart and phono stage with both decks and even better, as it's been a reference on your site, with your Fluance RT compared with the Michell.
I wonder why he didn't, he spoke about it.
The variable speed is a function for DJ’s that mix dance music. The AT has a look reminiscent of the Technics 1200/1210 line. It’s probably geared towards that market with the variable speed function.
The Goldring "E3" would be a better cart for this comparison on the AT table than the legacy AT95 cart.
(or least upgrade the AT stylus with an OEM hyper-elliptical or shibata).
Most built-in phono pre-amps are sub-par...barley hi-fi quality.
Built-in phono pre-amps are almost always (excepting the Nagra phono pre-amp built into the latest Mark Levinson table) are simply a cheap op amp (5532 from the 70’s?) with EQ inplemented in a full feedback configuration from a small handful of cheap, low tolerance caps and resistors. That’s also the phono pre you find in most entry level receivers and integrateds. You could build one for less than $10 and even improve it greatly by using a pair of 9 volt batteries configured as a split supply instead of the dreadful switching wall wart supplied with those things. Plans all over the ‘net.
Hey, great honest comparison, good to see one of the lesser known turntables doing it’s stuff.
Thanks Randy
I like vinyl, I also Like Digital. That said I have been collecting vinyl since I was 15 years old so I have way more LPs. I am not an Audiophile, I just like to listen to music but have to do so on a budget. So I started to assemble an audio system from vintage kit through a well known online auction site. It was a thoroughly fun experience picking up a Goldring Lenco GL75 through a Goodmans Receiver and Speakers from the 70s. The fun part was buying something new and trying it and either selling it on or making it my current turntable or amp or whatever. The day I managed to pick up a reasonably priced Michell Mycro (precursor to the Technodec but fully sprung) and from that day to now I have stopped looking to upgrade. I also listen to way more Vinyl now with CDs relegated to provision of background music or occasional proper listening sessions.
So like yourself - Michell just blew me away. I am a Brit and when the motor on the Mycro started to make a little noise I was able to phone Michell who said I could send it to them for a complete service, or I could service the motor myself and told me how to and advised me to buy a replacement motor if I could and they gave me the correct part number from Radio Spares as it was cheapest way. Not needed to fit new motor as service has done the trick - but I have the insurance policy of a new replacement motor should the need arise.
Fantastic company and brilliant products.
When you look at what it takes to make a good turntable from a mechanical viewpoint it takes a lot of precision to build a great turntable. Everything has to be just so and that just costs money. In this game there really are no shortcuts - you really do have to do everything right.
Be kind and explain what exactly costs money in turntable to be spot on in cycles and silent. Exclude cartridge. That's another story.
Why turntable made made of exotic materials with exotic design sounds better than 300$ turntable from AudioTechnica if same cartridge/stylus is use?
Open my eyes on that subject.
Thanks in advance.
Think it's 'er row ica' in english (rather than royka), as in the Beethoven symphony ('Heroic').
I can't believe it took until your post to correct the pronunciation.
I would be interested in a $4000 TT
Outstanding video Randy, it appears that you have had that epiphany moment with vinyl. I am sick of hearing from digital lovers of why vinyl isn’t as good as their preferred medium but I know and you now know that it is superior.
I have some experience of the AT120XUSB as I bought my son one and for the money it’s first class. Very easy to set up, well built and most importantly it sounds good. For a quick and relatively cheap upgrade change the stylus for the EN or ML. I have no hesitation in recommending that deck to anyone.
As for the Michell a friend of mine has a Gyrodec that I have listened to side by side with a Systendek IIX 900 that he was selling. The Gyrodec was a great sounding deck but in all honesty the Systemdek at a fraction of the price was superior sound wise but he preferred the look of the Michell which is a work of art and sold me the other. Both had the same Rega arm and the ATVM95E cartridge.
You now need to have a listen to a Linn Sondek which in my opinion is the best of all.
Only people, lacking experience in listening to a first class Vinyl setup, thinks streaming is better.
I am lucky to still own & use the Linn LP-12 - Ittok arm - Troika MC cartridge (rebuilt 3 times) that I bought new in 1988. Top of the line then. I recently splurged on a Chord DAC and Apple Hi-Res streaming. Though the streaming service is fun for finding weird and unusual stuff, at its best, hi-res streaming still can’t compete with my 35 year old vinyl set-up. Amp is a Luxman L-590 MkII and speakers are the Bowers and Wilkins 805 D4, properly set up. Caution though, if you go for a Linn TT you absolutely must site it on a wall shelf. No exceptions.
@@pnichols6500 probably so but they like to attack vinyl fans in comments on UA-cam giving technical reasons why digital is better. One listen to a Linn and they would be converted, I have done that for many friends and family who can’t believe how good vinyl really is. I get comments like “it’s 3D, it’s real, wow they are actually in the room with us, is this surround sound?, the singer is stood right there with the lead guitarist just behind and the bassist and drummer over there, you can feel the singer breathing and he is walking across the stage now, I have never heard anything like it before”.
Vinyl is amazing and has soul, CD is getting there and is cost effective. I have a good CD player but it can’t match a good turntable. Streaming has some way to go yet in my opinion but it’s a relatively new format. I must admit though it’s very convenient and it’s super cost effective. I have downloaded several hundred albums to experience other genres of music and it’s instant, to get the latest albums as soon as they are released it’s just a click and you are listening. It’s like fast food whereas playing a record is like a full Sunday dinner. Maybe I should invest in a better quality streamer now that the Chinese are bringing out some excellent models for very little money to level out the playing field.
@@daniannaci3258 yes I have all my turntables wall mounted, it makes a massive difference.
@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 That sums up my feelings about it pretty well.
Being retired now, I'm enjoying playing records more all the time, things that people say about vinyl being a hassle are what I like, I have developed a nice cleaning system, and a routine for playing records.
This is a hobby, it takes work to reap the rewards and achieving a satisfying outcome.
The Goldring E series are actually Audio Technica VM series cartridges, and sound pretty much the same.
So a very fair comparison
They don't sound the same to me.
My personal opinion about vinyl sound is that, assuming a halfway decent TT, most of the sound quality difference is going to be in the cartridge, stylus and pre. Therefore, I'm seeing this review as basically a cartridge review. Not a TT review.
I sold hi-fi between 1976 and 1982. My primary concern was a TT had to be DD (replacing belts back in the day was a hassle) and it had to have a replaceable headshell (I had multiple cartridges). That's why I got the ADC LMF 2 (and not the 1) for my Kenwood KD-500, which is still my main TT, btw. And I finally got a new stylus for my ZLM last year. The AT15SA still uses the original stylus.
FWIW, I also insisted on shaft drive and alloy wheels for my motorcycles. I hate chains, spokes and belts.
I have a very normal turntables from the 80's with a very modest audio technica cartridge and they sounded not at the same level of the cd player ...since I have added the external ifi phono preamp the world turned and now the turntable sound WAY better than ANY other digital sources...it's incredible how good vinyl can sound if the analog chain (turntable-cartridge.phono preamp) is well combined!
Of course it can because the limiting factor has nothing to do with the hardware but with the medium itself. Vinyl has more distortion than tubes (lots) so a nuclear quartz timing mechanism in the motor won't help. I remember listening to mom's Led Zepplin LP on her $50 all-in-one console (8-track, record player, am/fm radio with speakers) in 1977 and it was AWESOME!
Well... yeah 4k dollar table will outpace a cheaper deck. However for more people getting into it or those like myself that dont have funds.... i got a setup less than 100 dollars and does just as good for me. With clean record it still sounds excellent with the origional speakers and have not replaced the needle yet. 60's maggie. I love rocking records and even 8tracks through it. Working on setting up the cassette deck i got on fb as well. In the end it also depends on what you can afford, where its going aka the room and how good your hearing is. And sometimes it takes time ( years sometimes) to get what you want or like set up. Great video tho. Nice review.
Thanks
Great video! After I was gifted an Oracle Delphi with Grace F9, I lost my scepticism, Vinyl can sound better than digital. It has me now pondering whether the 640P Cambridge phono pre-amp I have is worthy of the task.
Off topic. Years ago I had a Oppo DVD player. It would upscale the video out past 1080p. It looked great. Way better than a Pioneer DVD player. Aye, it stopped working. I couldn't find a descent deal on another one so just use an old PS3 to watch DVDs. I have to say it looked really nice and I'll get another when the time is right.
I still have my original Technics 1200 from the late 90s. Still plays vinyl like the day I bought it.
Cam listening to master of puppets one time and slams down his verdict😁👍🇸🇪
Great video yet again Randy.
The cheap turntables do have their place, but the main issue is isolation and weight. Alot of plastic used in these units can cause ringing and it's annoying.
I have a Project 2 xperience turntable with a project tube box ds phono amp and Ortofon Cadenza Blue MC. I;m not going to upgrade from this. This is a keeper.
I had a very similar experience with vinyl after I hooked up my Critons. I did NOT want to leave to pick up my kids because I knew I was done listening for the day.
Good review
I did have two reloop rp4000 MK2 cost me £500 came with cartridges but had to buy the lids separately they sounded ok did the job for scratching and the pitch control for beat matching was ok.they looked good and sounded ok but that £4000 turntable is more for listening to music rather than djaying on lol apparently the audio technica have had issues over the years tho the more expensive ones been ok
Have you reviewed any products from VPI?
Loved your review! When you consider the amplification needed to follow a tiny diamond chip through a groove with micron variations, you realize that eliminating motor and bearing noise and acoustic feedback isn’t cheap but is quite audible. AND why do following tiny grooves in a mechanical device still create a more realistic sound than an electronic device that’s had decades to improve? Hope this really spoiled you!
Hey @cheapaudioman, how were you able to get the audio technica for $250?
Gr8 review.
Many folk, CD'only advocates especially, reckon t/turntables cannot be different with such an old inferior non-digital aged crusty dusty old format. I read such in forums etc & heard many times since CC began. Well I mostly play CDs in the car except for rarities I couldn't get on vinyl, occasionally played indoors, so I clearly don't agree. All my friends who were a bit or fully like that, were mildly to greatly flabbergasted by the same "Rumours" & "Let it Bleed" recording (I had on both formats) they heard on vinyl vs CD, all things being = & that was at least 5 t/tables back & more with all the tonarm arm &/or cartridge upgrades, when CD was 10 years old & I had a AR (XB?) s/h t/table with a Denon m.c. at the time, £120 all in from a u.k. dealer.
I have the Audio Technica, I have never used the interal preamp. I also use it the the micro linear version of the AT-VM95 with a cork mat and it is quite good for the price.
I’m an old guy, all we had in the 60s and 70s was analog when digital hard media was introduced in the 80s. I jumped on it and never looked back. This is all a reminder to me as to why I need to stay away from vinyl. thank you for putting up this vid.
Same here. Spent way too much upgrading from an entry Dual w/ a Shure cart to a Thorens with a swapped out Grace tone arm w/ Sonus cart. So easy to forget about all the bad elements of vinyl. Dirt, scratches, warps, non-centered center hole, bumping into the turntable! Happily left all that behind for CD's.
Clean records are key with vinyl as well as a properly set up turntable. There's nothing better than a good analog setup. To each their own though. It's all subjective and all about enjoying the music.
I have a turntable. I enjoy playing records, but I don't fool myself into thinking the sonic qualities of vinyl are better than that of a good digital source.
@@u.s.armyvet8947
Clean (I have a vacuum machine), or new, sealed, copies of LP records, there are still the inevitable pops, clicks and farts that manifest themselves whilst listening that I just know aren't on the master recordings.
I run a midrange turntable for the considerable collection of albums acquired over the years, but all new purchases are on CD.
I thank you and all the others who jumped into the perfect sound forever format, and flooded the used record stores with the majority of my vinyl collection. rather than switch formats, I stayed with records until I got it right. It took me awhile with an AR table until my turn table again became my system's weak link, eventually finding my end of road Gyro Se with a techno arm.
Ich habe vor einiger Zeit an meinem 1977er WEGA P 555 Direktantriebs-Vollautomaten den grünen AT 95 gegen einen E 3 Blue ausgetauscht. Der Klang wurde um Welten (!) besser! Ich werde mir jetzt, nach Deinem Video, einen E 4 besorgen!
I'm pretty sure that is a Rega tone arm, fantastic engineering.
I really love this channel! That doesn't mean I agree with everything that is said here. Vinyl is a giant hole for your hard earned income!
MM vs MC. This gets really complicated fast. Everybody supports preamping the MM output. Way way way easier to compare phono preamps. OK, MC. I can't prove it, but I suspect that you have to match your MC preamp to your cartridge. I would love to hear other people's opinion on this. I have NEVER lived a privileged enough life where I could justify the stupid amount of money I would have to spend to research this to the fullest.
Even back in the 80's there was all kind of products to make your vinyl sound better. KLH had the TNE (transient noise eliminator) and a separate dynamic expander(?). If you keep adding and adding all this stuff that it takes to actually play a record, what's the point? The anti static gun, the perfect disc mat, the fat weight on the spindle, the Disc Washer brush etc etc. Where does it end? It never ends! There's always a fairy dust company that will make things better by putting a hole in your wallet.
Take all the money you would have spent on the mojo products, and buy better equipment! 4K on a complete system that doesn't include a vinyl option can stream UHD music from Amazon Music! Guess what? You don't have to get up every 22 minutes to turn the record over. Plus my music stream will last longer than all my 10 inch reels. Call me lazy. I don't care. My ears and my heart get to stay in the groove all day long!
I know myself. If I spent $4000 on something, there is no way that I would admit to myself or anyone else that it doesn't sound better than Ultra High Def streaming.
I have much much more than a 4k system, high dollar streaming and Vinyl setup. Streaming is fantastic, love it, but if I'm seriously listening to music, it's Vinyl all day long!
I was saying add $4000 to your system and eliminate all vinyl options.
For the record (see what I did there?) I own vinyl, Technics SL1600MK2, Yamaha C65 preamp as my headphone/phono preamp, and around 700 albums. I just love bang for your buck. My Yamaha home theater receiver and Klipsch Dolby Atmos speakers get 99% of the use.
If your gonna spend 250.00 on a new audio technica turntable, may i suggest a 3rd option? Take that 250.00 and go to a flea market,garage sale, or newspaper ads and just buy a early 80's record player then take the extra 200.00 and buy gas lunch and a pile of records and a 6 pack and have a good weekend.
how do you produce content every day? Pretty amazing!
Brilliant
Hey Randy, welcome to the world of analogue the way it can. Like you I have a choice between a great deck and an excellent CD player. I buy twenty records to every one CD and I listen almost exclusively to vinyl.
By the way, the turntable is what makes that E4 sound so great. If you mount a cartridge at that price to a cheap deck and arm it will perform nowhere close to its full potential. A better test would have been to put the AT cart on the Michell deck. Then you would have heard how much the deck is contributing to the sound in its own right.
Keep spinning those records 😊.
Maybe you should try the audio technica with an ortofon 2m black cartridge Andrew Robinson uses it as a reference ( with the Audio technica lp140). This turntable is 400 dollars the cartridge 600... Seems to be a winning combination punching way above it's weight.
I have an audio technica ATLP7 turntable with vm540ml cartridge and project phono box s2 preamp, is a great and afdordable sounding combo... a comparison of mitchell and atlp7 turntables would be a fairer duel
That flash light sure looks like my Mag Light 😳
I have a pair of audio technica headphones and they are anazing such a good brand
Thanks for bringing back Sith Audio Randy, very glad your lawyers could sort all of that out 😂
¡Viva Sith Audio!
Thanks for bringing it back, Randy!
The primary reason why vinyl versions of modern albums sound better than digital counterparts is simply because the master used for vinyl is not mangled with dynamic range compression to sound loud on radio. The loudness wars are real and the only clean way to get around it is to listen to music on vinyl. Vinyl has much better dynamic range than digitally streamed versions.
Check out the new floating turntable
Do this test using the same stylus and pre amp next time but do the sound test blindfolded! See if you can tell the difference then 👍
I actually have an audio technica deck but the xp140 that comes with no pre amp or extras build in. Sounds great imo. Id say it mostly matters to stylus preamp and then amplifier/speaker set up. And probably number one is quality vinyl! Pro-Ject and Rega do some great decks that are belt driven that wont break the bank 👍
Exactly! That would be the only way to do a fair comparison, everything else is pure nonsense... Once again 😂
@@takeseven- I could agree with you if he reported a subtle improvement. If you hear that much of a difference listening for several hours, that's enough. We don't listen to music by switching back & forth for a few minutes.
@LeRoySL-nk4hp I use an AT-VMN95E in black on a AT-140xp with a Sony str-190 stereo amp and a set of monitor audio bronze 50s. I've just recently bi-wired my speakers and to me that's made more difference in sound than anything else. Speakers seem much more controlled.
I did a blind test not so long ago with the help of my gf because everyone was raving about the elac debut bookshelf speakers.
I could definitely tell a difference between the two but I actually preferred my monitor audios so I sent the elacs back.
I used the same amp and speaker cables for the test to make it fair.
I'd love to see this test done again up against a REGA PLANAR P1 a PRO-JECT DEBUT CARBON EVO and the AUDIO TECHNICA with exactly the same set up stylus amp speakers and music. Blind test to see if he could pick them apart.
@@patbarr1351 Or maybe he doesn't want to hurt a new potential sponsor by using the same stylus on both tables, showing none or minimal difference.
Yeah, that's the one thing missing from this channel is blind testing!
Great take here. The turntable options are a plenty out there. Good to see affordable options as well as more expensive one's.
Yes, you have just confirmed that better components do sound better?
Is Michell gone now? I just tried the link and get 403 Forbidden. :O
“The music was better than digital”? Was this your first vinyl revelation about that being the case so often?
You really should have put that Goldring cartridge into the Audio Technica, through the same pre-amp, for a fair review... the Audio Technics deck is excellent value for the money...
It won't compare to the Michell, but as an entry level deck, it will be pretty eye-opening with sound quality for anyone coming into the hobby... 😉