Space Oddity - Why Michell's GyroDec is a Timeless Classic Turntable
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2023
- Seeing as David has been a fan of this iconic British turntable for over thirty years, he takes the lead in this episode, explaining its strengths and weaknesses to Linn-loving Mike.
So here's our introduction to the GyroDec; there's so much to say about it - in terms of set-up, tuning and tweaking, not to mention its fascinating backstory - that we'll come back to it in a later episode. For now though, sit back and enjoy the view!
Each episode of Hi-Fi Riff features the guys' unedited, unexpurgated views about all manner of weird and wonderful hi-fi designs. Business executive Mike has a wealth of knowledge from previous hi-fi retail experience, and David has written about hi-fi for thirty years. Now Editor-in-Chief of StereoNET, he's picked up a few things along the way.
So relax and enjoy some one-take hi-fi riffing - and please leave your comments below. And don’t forget to hit the Subscribe button, this one goes up to eleven!
The eighties-tastic title tune is called ‘UFO/Mike’s Jumper’, and used with the express permission of our old pal and rights holder Simon Lythe.
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I have had my GyroDeck SE for over 25 years, fitted with an RB300, this year i thought it was time for a few upgrades. I treated myself to an Audiomods Series 6 Tone arm, mated to a Hana SL moving coils cartridge. I have upgraded the springs to the Solidair Audio Pylons and changed the feet to the Solidare Audio Ukishima magnetic levitation feet. The deck has never sounded better. Every year I give it a service myself and replace the oil for the bearing, Last year I sent the gold weights back to Michell for re-golding, they did a superb job, I also have the deck connected to the Michell power supply, I love it, and will never part with it. Next on my list is a new phono stage.
I looked into alternative elastic band suspensions but rejected them as trying to solve a problem that didn't exist. Michell , the designer with his name on the company door, certainly had knowledge and access to such suspension thinking, and went with metal springs. I don't change parts in a completed design just because I can, I need measurements , not just testimonial from people who have already spent money on the stuff. I am glad that the buying decision increased your happiness.
Not only a turntable, it's a museum piece.
I’ve just recently experienced a Gyro SE so enjoyed your chat very much.
I agree, the Gyrodec really need carefull set-up to sound great, and the HI Res PSU is a major upgrade in my humble opinion... In my case the two belt option made the deck speed more unstable. I went back to the one belt standard. The Riff I have been waiting for... thanks guys!
I have owned an original Transcriptor turntable for over 40years. It is fitted with a SME 3009 arm because the original pickup was too fiddly to set up and use. The biggest weakness of the original design was that the vinyl record sat upon just 5 small rubber grommets, that contributed to a thinness in the sound. One mod was to add a glass platter on top of these grommets. But to do this, one needed to retro fit an extended record spindle, and that part is rarer than hens teeth! So still in use as is.
the owner/designer of rega was in a recent discussion where he said he had one of those tables, and liked it very much, saying it influenced his designs , because one could hear the record vibrating between the supports as the surface passed . he said he lusted after one for years because of the visual appeal , but was short on cash to buy one.
I'm not sure if "just like a British Leyland gearbox" is a good selling point.
LOL. Actually the LT77 gearbox was one of the best things to come from BL! Two are still going strong in my TR7 and Rover SD1.
@@MrVinylista I've never driven one good LT77, not in SD1s, TR7s, Sherpas, nor TVRs. I thought I found a good one in a Disco, but worked out later that it was an R380.
@@robertleitch2016 I had a TR7 from delivery miles only (36 miles), and the LT77 was beautiful, like a rifle-bolt. Problem is poor maintenance and/or the wrong oil. BL recommended ATF due to crunchy cold gear changes in winter, which wrecks the bearings in time. Modern MTF 94 is perfect. Also, ageing gearbox mounts spoiled the shift quality after a few years.
@@MrVinylista two things still going strong is not a very convincing argument. I was changing the clutch on my TR 6 and the supervisor of the work area came over and asked me if I knew the only thing really wrong with the car, and pointed to the British Leyland badge as the answer. I tried to buy a TR8 because I loved my earlier Triumph 4 and six. It shook so bad under breaking doing the test drive I had to walk on any buying decision, although I really wanted to like the car enough to buy one. Even if it did look like a doorstop.
I have a Gyro and an LP12 running on different systems. It wouldn't be fair to compare their sound quality- the Gyro sounds better to me but the LP 12 is a bit old and tired. But the Gyro doesn't just look great, it feels so well engineered and just much nicer to use than the LP12 so I have absolutely no inclination to spend money/time on the LP12.
I also really enjoy owning such a well considered design. I am happy that a cost constrained design allows me insight into sonics that the bucks up big tables provide .
it seems that as long as a way is found to spin the platter, because of the lubricated bearing , it will last forever.
By the time that the GryoDec arrived, I had already been seduced by the original Oracle (later Oracle Delphi) turntable. Both are timeless examples of industrial design and their concepts are analogous. It David and/or Mike are familiar with the Oracle, it would make a great subject for a companion video. It may not be British but it's at least from the Commonwealth.
I always considered the Oracle as a less cost constrained version of pretty much the same very valid design principles. anybody would be well served to have one. My gyro se is all the turntable I will ever need.
Great Riff well up to par and very insightful. Secretly always wanted one. Cheers Chaps.
When I started with hi fi with my dual deck, I would have poisoned my mother for the Michell focus one which had a tonearm that resembled a suspension bridge.
I ended up getting rid of mine after many, many upgrades. It just sounded soft and had a terrible speed stability issue which no one could help me with. Then I saw a video in my channel in which you can see the shaft where the pulley sat, was slightly bent and wobbled while operational. By that time it was already sold.
Really interesting, thanks.
I first saw one of these when a villain in the Sweeney had one, thought it looked so cool I really wanted one but alas couldn't afford it at the time.
Keep um coming !
Well done for reviewing the Gyrodec. It must be the world's most under the radar piece of hifi kit. It's impressive they seem to have continued to sell for decades, despite nobody having heard of them, so to speak. I was far too susceptible to magazine indoctrination to buy a Gyrodec. The Linn Sondek was always the correct choice for us blinkered enthusiasts.
It always amazed me how the UK press was obsessed with the LP12, to the exclusion of most of its rivals. I still think the Linn is a very good turntable, but it's not a universal panacea. The Gyro is clearly better than the Sondek in several ways, but you'd never know that from UK press reviews. 🙂
@@MrVinylista the high price of the lp12 was always offsetting to me. but I also didn't agree with the introductory advertising, implying that the excellence was because of the Scottish machining . I questioned the validity of this claim, and in association, the validity of the product for using such BS claims, since I knew people who were building stuff for space exploration that didn't work in historic Scotland manufacturing.
More like Clockwork Orange, boys!
Love this video. As an engineering apprentice in the mid 80’s the construction of the Gyrodec appealed but it was too expensive and i settled for a Thorens 321 with LVX and Glantz 10LX MC cartridge. Still got it but cannot find a replacement cartridge.
Love ur vids cheers
So I went to the hi fi shop and said I want to buy a turntable - either the gyrodeck or the linn sondek.
The dealer specialises in the lp12 repairs upgrades etc and happened to have the gyrodeck so an audition of both was possible.
It soon became clear that I had the wrong sort of ears. Clearly to me at least the gyrodeck was more dynamic more alive and a more rewarding listen.
Unfortunately the dealer didn’t agree with me and said things line the gyro sounds like hi fi (!!!) and basically told me that I was misguided to prefer the gyro.
Needless to say I left the dealer without a purchase and hot footed it to a notably ‘neutral’ dealer (clue based in Warrington) and have been a happy listener since - they delivered and set up in my listening room. With the CJ electronics and SF(original) Guarneris sounds sublime.
Sounds like you traveled in a time machine back to 1986.
It's this sort of thing that puts people off Hi-Fi sadly.
When I was in retail we understood that people like different things.
Mike
A good point about the deck being overlooked because of its looks. There is a feeling that if a piece of kit is good looking then the manufacturer has not prioritised sound quality. I think that is a shame because there is great pleasure in having a good looking piece of hi-fi, but then again I think my elderly Croft Micro is a thing of beauty, so perhaps I am not the best judge!
I always thought mine looked more like a medical blood centrifuge than a work of art. I put up with the looks because it has a functional purpose , my primary purchase reason.
How did I miss this Riff? Well, better late than never. Great Riff but I will have to take offence for you not mentioning the Transcriptors Hydraulic, the progenitor of this TT, the first UFO style TT and the one which had indeed a Stanley Kubrick connection since it did appear in the Clockwork Orange. I'm afraid your only excuse is your young age. I remember pushing my face against the shop window as a schoolboy waiting for the schoolbus back in the mid 70s admiring this TT along with the Revoxes, early Nakamichis and other goodies of that age which I can't recall.
Am well aware of Transcriptors, and know the story from both sides having personally spoken to both Michael Gammon and John Michell about it at length.
We decided not to mention Transcriptors, simply because they deserve their own Riff. They are not an adjunct to Michell.
I'm just about to start my vinyl journey with the purchase of P3 50th anniversary, pick it up next weekend, can't wait
Have fun, it's a great deck. Vinyl is lovely, when properly set up. Make sure your Rega is 100% level and take the dustcover off for serious listening, it sounds better that way.
@@MrVinylista thanks so much, love your vids and humour, can't wait for the next one
I was just listening to a UA-cam conversation. where the founder of Rega said the Michell transcripter he owned influenced the Rega designs, specifically the simplicity of design.
I wonder if they pinched the arm balancing idea from SOTA who introduced something similar on their Sapphire turntable in 1981. A hidden cavity in the subchassis held a bag with lead shot pellets, and you would add or subtract lead shot to balance the subchassis relative to the plinth. Early Oracles also had a heavy bar attached to the bottom of the subchassis which you could rotate to shift the centre of gravity.
To the best of my knowledge, Michell's concept of fixed balanced weights allied to a fixed 1kg tonearm and armplate weight, was first done on the Gyro. It's a more elegant solution, in my view, to the SOTA. The Oracle system was good but again, given that the mass of the tonearm is known, then why not do it the Michell way? It was/is the simplest way as far as the consumer is concerned.
I have a 2 Transcriptors...One as seen in the movie Clockwork Orange,,,,And a Transcriber...Both very Michell
You managed to side-swerve the Transcriptors part of the Michell story. I first came across a Transcriptors deck in a Hi-Fi shop in the 1970s (which also sold QUAD ESLs).That deck also had a lot of aesthetic allure in the same "engineered" way as the GyroD. When I came to buy my first spinner in the 80s I looked at a Focus and a Synchro (Due to budget) but just wasn't moved by their sound and.eventually ended up with a.....
We deliberately avoided doing a detailed history of Michell Engineering, and its link to Transcriptors, because we didn't have time to fit it into our usual 20 minute format. So we'll be doing that another time, as well as a separate set-up video for the Gyro.
Cool. Looking forward to more riffs. @@MrVinylista
I’ve heard this table with an Alphason HR100 tonearm. Fantastic!
Maybe you should do a Riff on the Alphason tonearm. Would be great to hear your thoughts.
Hi David, could you please review the Roksan Xerxes 10?
Hi - yes, if and when I can find one! I remember doing it for Hi-Fi World, many years ago - a very decent deck.
A few years ago I bought a Gyrodec after selling them a few years previous but ended up back with an LP12. I liked the sound but the new DC motor wasn’t as good as the older nla 'Papst' AC motor. Also I found the speed constantly drifted with the new DC motor with no tacho feedback like the Orbe uses.
I agree the spring adjustment is mind boggling and could never get it right.
Another brilliant video though.
I am not that speed sensitive, but am still getting the upgraded power supply, and will plastic dip the springs I have rather than spending so much money on the new coated spring improvement.
I have that Linn Sondek from the photo, the early version with the red button. Everything is still original but I got rid of that dark 'smoked' lid.
I've had many a turntable over the last 55 years, but the one I've had the longest is my Gyrodec SE. It's been 20 years since I bought it and I have no intention of ever replacing it. It's fitted with an SME IV, an Ortofon Cadenza black, True Point Audio electronic speed control PSU and Solidair Dark Star pilons. I was thinking of replacing it with an SME 12A until I heard one and realised the SME didn't sound as good. The Gyrodec is really very, very good and something to behold.
Love the SME 1V ❤️
Mike
I was about to buy the true point motor controller but got covid instead. the fact that they was pushing the "O" ring suspension as the first upgrade needed for the table made me doubt their credibility, since I don't even consider such a part needed, much less the essential first upgrade, over improved voltage to the motor.
It may have looked flash, especially by early 80's standards, but each and every part of it had a genuine function. As for competitors at the price point the VPI Prime comes to mind. Current versions may be more expensive but they include the tonearm and are much easier to set up.
Agreed, form followed function with the Gyro. It was an extremely well designed machine that just happened to look beautiful, almost as a result. Those suspended weights are its only concession to 'style', and do serve a function - but most people agree that the deck sounds a good deal better with the boring black Orbe platter.
@@MrVinylista I looked at VPI very hard, because I wanted to buy , as an American , an American product, just in case I entertained foreign visitors and wanted to show off. At the time I was in the market, VPI had a reputation for a " unique sound" mentioned in the audio reviews, and I wanted no part of that. Now it seems the house sound has improved to normal.
EBM-Papst is German, with facilities all over NW Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg - the main one is in Lansdshut, the city where BMW make their really specialised things which I haven't a hope in hell of understanding. Papst is German for 'Pope', and their logo used to be a generic image of of a pontiff.
Thanks for the info. It's a very respected company, by all accounts.
Hi, just discovered you guys whilst looking for tips on my Gyro. Top channel, informal and informative, my fave combination. I recently purchased my Gyro secondhand, replacing my 1988 LP12. It came with the Techno arm.
Intially it was having speed stability issues on the last track of a record. The beauty of a Gyro is that if you are careful, considered and have a good ear, it lends itself to a DIY approach. Changed the belt first, then the springs. Reset it’s level and changed the cartridge to Nagoka MP200. Must have reset the level and springs three further times. It gets better every time it’s tweeked with speed stability improving. However, If you leave it standing for a week it can take a couple of LP’s before speed stabilises fully. I’m beginning to think that an upgrade to an HR Select might be in order. Is the £800 upgrade worth it? Any advice would be appreciated.
Definitely one for @myvinylista
the set up seemed intuitive to me, it is only logical considering the design. The extraordinary main bearing , which I consider the key to any turntable performance , is what lead me to the design. although I first became aware of the product when it was part of a Italian hi fi club video presentation, and this lone simple little turntable was shown among the other members super big money tables. I figured if it could hold its own among that company, it was worth a look , since it obviously wasn't as expensive as the monster tables the other members were running.
my experience with a belt drive suspended AR turntable led me to purchase the SE gyro, trusting the success of the product in the English market where the rooms are typically smaller than in America where I live. That benefit spoke to me, as I also have limited space. I also knew the british ,market tends to be more careful with buying decisions than my American market.
Great post, thank you.
Mike
I remember paying about £1100 for my new spider gyro with early Techno arm, could never get it to bounce right, setting my LP12 was a doddle by comparison.
True, but the LP12 was always more fussy about tonearm weight, so it was swings and roundabouts, I guess.
I always thought of GryoDec owners as Oracle wannabes lol!!!
Haha, I always thought it was the other way round! Actually, I do really like the Oracle - the original was a significant new design and predated the Gyro by a few months.
@@MrVinylista I had two friends David who had both of these TT and you could tell not just by the sound but also the engineering how much better the Oracle was. Not only that it was also x2/3 more expensive and it really deserved it. I have another long story which I'll not go into but the guy who had the Oracle wanted to upgrade to a Nottingham Analogue Ref which was massive and weighed many kilos. So I bought one and at that time it was my TT of choice with a few different arms.. Seriously this TT had scientific gear on the end of it as I work in a laboratory..Maybe one day I'll tell you my HiFi history and to why I bought my current TT the Dohmann helix 1 V2 soon to be upgraded hopefully
Wow, you have a Dohmann. Very nice!@@garth56
@@MrVinylista I own a Gyro SE, and have always considered it just a cost constrained version of the same basic design principles expressed in the oracle.
David, do you prefer the SE or the fully covered version?
In aesthetic terms, it has to be the covered version, but the Spyder Edition sounds better. The truth is that the large acrylic base and dustcover resonates, thus degrading sound. A good upgrade to the fully covered version is to remove the dustcover, which brings the sound close to the SE. The same goes for any turntable by the way - the plinth and dustcover are microphonic.
@@MrVinylista I use a big cowboy neckerchief to cover my table when not in use. It's much handier to stow than a hard cover when not needed.
A lovely sounding deck but fiddly . I had one for 20 years. Had some power supply problems & eventually the motor died on me . I sold it on ( for someone to change to dc motor ) and bought Technics 1500c . The Technics is easier to use
So how does it compare to the Orbe especially as David gives it a 10
How do you setup the springs, I am curious now
...with all three spring covers off you adjust the hight of each by turning the nut at the top of the spring assembly. The goal is to have each spring perfectly centered around the springs central pillar. The thing to watch out for is that turning the nut rotates the spring and also moves the chassis so getting one pillar correct can throw out the other two. But with patience you can get all three pillars perfectly centred and the deck bouncing freely. I hope that all makes sense.
@@ooghie7985 Thank you for explaining so I don't have to! I would add that you should ensure the Gyro is on a 100% level and flat support, with the base's height adjusters set identically, before you start the spring adjustment procedure.
@@ooghie7985 so basically tighten till mid-way through the thread for all three strings? If I got it right. Wouldn't that be too tight?
Don't. Bin them in favour of Solidaudio Pylons. As a Gyro SE owner for many years, ditching those awful bouncy springs, which are a pain to set up and impact the sound of the deck negatively, is one of the best mods you can make to tge Gyro.
The absolute best mid you can make, imo, is to invest in the Orbe platter upgrade kit. Turns the Gyro into a seriously good turntable. It adds a certain gravitas and presence the standard Gyro lacks.
So what sounds better this or the Technics SL -1200 G?
Short answer is that they're different.
The Gyro has way better soundstage width and depth, and gorgeous tonal purity. The Technics has vice-like bass and absolutely rock-solid speed stability, but inferior sound staging.
Put the two together and you'd have a brilliant deck!
@@MrVinylistawhat will it be called, a GTech as in the vacuum cleaner?
@@hifi2169 That''s a great question, I was hoping you weren't going to ask that!
Basically, you've got a choice of [a] new but very expensive super decks, or [b] classic high end Japanese direct drives - sadly the latter are also now reaching silly prices, when 20 years ago, you couldn't give them away.
So it all depends on your budget. Examples of [a] include the SME Model 60, Dohman Audio Helix One Mk3, Wilson Benesch GMT, etc.
With [b] it's Marantz TT-1000, Micro Seiko DDQ-1000, Onkyo PX-100M, Kenwood Lo-7D, Technics SP-10/2, etc.
Personally, coming back down into the real world, the Michell Orbe offers substantially better speed stability than the Gyro and is a profoundly enjoyable deck to listen to - hugely underrated in my view. It is however still a tad soft in the bass compared to the new Technics SL-1000R. The latter is a superb all rounder but still doesn't match the Michell's soundstaging.
In terms of sound per pound, I think the best solution is to buy a Technics SL-1200G and rip the stock arm out of it, and fit an SME Series V - this is an amazing combination for the money, offering 'superfi' sound for 'only' high end money. I know it well and I can't criticise it in any serious way. Most people would be flabbergasted. It smashes hi-res digital via the best DAC into a pulp.
Alternatively, if you want a 'character' turntable that has huge attitude and power, but lacks finesse, then a well preserved Garrard 301 with SME V would be my choice. A Lyra Delos matches this very well, tonally. It's a jaw-droppingly fun listen but not strictly what was in the original recording.
I could go on for hours, as I seem to have accidentally devoted my life to turntables. To be continued...
@@MrVinylista one has to consider the human hearing mechanism before concluding one is superior to the other. It was not evolved to be useful in reporting reality or hi fi testing.
it's hopeless suggestibility is why hearing test have to incorporate the reality of people hearing stuff that isn't there by scoring accuracy within a range of normality, not on the absolute accuracy of answers.
First 🎉
That Gyro is "form over function" is such a misguided statement. Actually it's the exact opposite.
Yes, correct!