Tuning ClearPath Motors on a Paired-Axis CNC Machine | Avid Benchtop Pro CNC
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Today, we're auto-tuning the ClearPath motors on my new Avid Benchtop Pro CNC router. The paired Y axes present a challenge because you can't tune them individually (they're connected) and you can't tune them separately because they need to be loaded with the gantry.
00:00 Intro
01:00 Why Tune?
04:38 Moving Mass Calculations
06:20 Loading the Axis
07:51 Tuning the Paired Y Axes
13:23 Tuning the X Axis
15:00 Tuning the Z Axis
18:50 Sanity Testing with Tuned Motors
Not many tools in this video, but here they are:
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Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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I used to work on multi-million dollar industrial gantry robots. We used 45lb plates for ballast when swapping components to avoid retuning axes. I chuckled when I saw James bolting Rouge plates on his machine.
Love that TIE fighter sound. I could watch a newly built CNC pointlessly move around for hours. I would tell others I’m “testing” it, but we all know the truth.
You are working really hard in the background to make your shop look more like a Mad Scientist Lab. I'm all for it.
I'm building my own from scratch and was all excited to find this video. Alas, in my machine, the X axis ballscrew pitch is 10mm, while the Y axis is 5mm, ruling out this approach. The Clearpath Customer Support guys helped me out, though, remoting into my PC and while I moved the gantry back and forth, they tuned the servos. Worked out great, thanks, guys!
The weight measurements are awesome...nice touch!
I've been using ClearPath motors on my DIY CNC for a few years now. I did tune them up after I installed them, but a refresher is always good. I've never needed to replace any of my motors but I'll make sure I have backups of the configurations. Very good to see this and your other videos.
As always, it's great to have your expertise in the community! This helped me tremendously in tuning my Clearpath servos. I would have hit esc real quick if I had not seen this. YES it is scary seeing my mill behave like that but now it's silky smooth! Thank you good sir!!!
This is an excellent video tutorial on dual-axis tuning. Well done!
Jim W.
Teknic Applications Engineer
It made my day when you said about the tie fighter noise literally as I was commenting about it. Keep up the good work James, your channel is awesome
The process for tuning the servos on a multi motor drive axis is one that has been plaquing me for a while. Your method has taken the anxiety out of my planning for my next build. Since I will using dual motors on both X and Y I was very concerned with how to do the tuning. After watching your video I now have a plan that I can believe in for the tuning. The machine is a little wider and longer than yours, but is conceptually now different. The idea to use a single motor driven axis with appropriate mass load to allow for the load to mimic the individual forces that will be applied to a multi motor driven axis is elegant and easily implemented.
I love elegant and easy! It always beats complex and difficult.
It's not perfect, but it's a good way to get close. Teknic support can help if you have trouble.
What an amazing channel to follow. Thank you James for all the knowledge you skare and the fantastic projects...can't wait for more.
I'm glad you made this - I've gotten the "how do you tune the Y motors?" question a number of times regarding my clearpath-equipped gantry router, and from now on I can just point people to this video, which makes it very clear. Nice work, as usual.
Amazing video as always, i'm so exited when you release new videos!!!!
It's good to see someone with a passion for machines :D
Greetings from France
I may have been too primed for comedic bits by This Old Tony, because all of the mentions of autotuning saw me half-expecting "singing" at some point. 🫣
Great video James! Really appreciate you making these videos. Its folks like you that put in the time and effort to share their knowledge that makes this format so great. Cheers!!
Always a pleasure to keep leaning through your in-depth content. Thank You.
As usual very informative. 👏 Great channel.
Love your videos !
What a beast of a machine! I like it a lot. Your approach on tuning it, is very helpful. Thanks again.
Another great job James. You make all this enjoyable to watch. learn and understand. Thank you.
Nice build and The clearpath are awesome.
Love the video I don't really understand much about cnc machines but look great
I recently found your channel And can't stop watching looking forward to the next video
Superb video. God bless you.
Nice work. Very well done explaining how to tune and compensate for a paired axis.
Great video, I agree with saving the files after tuning. I have had one lose its config before and it was a very quick fix.
Great video thank you. These motors seem quite the thing!
I am looking forward to seeing the machine in operation.
Ja,especially that's so cool how you make that all look so easy . What I'm getting mostly is how you got o save every thing after you learn/teach each aspect .. thanx man .
I went with closed loop steppers based on the testing you've shared on youtube and am very happy with them. Looking forward to some Clearpaths down the road, thanks for sharing!
can you get within .001 when machining parts ?
@@joeygonzo That's a big ask for my current 50"x50" CNC router. I don't need to get that close for what I'm doing. I've chased backlash down to .0015" and can readily get within .003" profile cutting 4130 steel parts. If I fine tuned the machine and bit diameter when setting up cuts I can get closer but again, it's pushing the limits of the machine and what I need from it.
Much respect from a professional automation electrical engineer.
You can't beat awesomer!
This CNC router really makes my Open Builds OX router look like a toy. I'm thinking upgrading to the proximity limit switches like you have might be an interesting project.
Thank for posting.
Great tutorial! I used Olympic plates, but it still worked ok :)
Fr/
Bonjour,
C'est génial vos explications . Ca fait longtemps que je regarde ses servomoteurs mais le paramétrage me faisait peur en plus des problèmes de traduction. Vous l'avez fait remarquablement bien fait. En plus ma prochaine CN sera identique à la votre avec deux moteurs sur l'axe Y...
Merci pour le temps que vous avez consacré et en plus j'apprécie la façon donc vous vous exprimez qui rends la traduction clair et précise pour une personne qui ne maitrise pas bien l'anglais.
Merci Bravo et je peux que vous encouragé à continuer comme vous le faite.
JC
Gb/
Hello,
your explanations are great. I've been looking at these servos for a long time but I was afraid of the settings and the translation problems. You have done it remarkably well. I'm looking forward to my next NC with two motors on the Y axis...
Thank you for the time you spent and I also appreciate the way you express yourself which makes the translation clear and precise for a person who does not master English well.
Thank you, Bravo and I can only encourage you to continue as you do.
Once you get the machine on a more solid base, I’d turn the acceleration up. You’ll notice it won’t reach full speed when doing complex parts, like gears and letters.
Great machine and interesting solution to the dual Y axis problem!
Awesomer! 😄
I thought the using the x axis to tune the y axis was a very smart move. I don’t think, he’ll I know, I wouldn’t have thought of that. Thanks a lot for great video.
Interesting, thankyou.
very cool. I think monitoring the current usage on the motors (perhaps when under cutting load) and then giving yourself some margin on top would let you set the current / torque limits on the motor to prevent them from just ripping up the machine if there is some error or problem. thanks for sharing this.
That's certainly an option. The Clearpath motors have lots of diagnostic data available for this kind of analysis.
Very nice video. I found adjusting tuning to stiff was well worth it. The BLDC trapezoidal sound is a bit louder. I feel like I'm getting better value from the motors with it turned up to stiff because the performance is improved (and it sounds beefier as you mentioned after tuning).
-Ken
Excellent content. You are getting to be pretty buff my friend!
While drooling over this machine on their site. I dreamed of having the nema 34 motors on it. Typical car guy, biggest motor you can get. Then you go and put clearpath servos on it. Its the equivalent of putting a funny car engine in an old pinto.
I've had Avid's 2x2' with NEMA 23 motors for 5years. Cutting wood or aluminum they do great -- have a higher power rating than other NEMA 23's I looked at. But like you, I did think hard about going with the 34's. TBH, I don't do any aggressive cutting.
Gracias , tremendo hack para poder realizar autotune en el eje Y .
That Z axis seems so powerful, you could use it as a shaper!
James I really enjoy the videos and your approach to things. What do you do for a living?
Good video. I've been working on my own DIY cnc lathe with DMM servos. I've had issue after issue tuning servos. For example while cutting the loads are different so my tuning was done just like you did with the machines inertia only. no cutting loads. This has caused lots of confusion for me. For example while cutting the servos see more load and allow more slip (accumulation error) this leads to missed dimensions and having to take very whisper lite finishing cuts in order to not force the motors to slip. If you increase the gain on position then the motors hiss or hum and in some cases oscillate till they error out. I'm looking forward to see how the machine dose while cutting and to see if you have these issues or not. Keep it up.
I think the gains are a little hot straight out of the tuning process. I think I'll probably end up fine-tuning things further.
Fantastic build. Autotune did not work on my mach4 setup.
I ran it again after mounting the actual spindle, and it seems okay, but I have a call scheduled with the OEM applications team to fine tune it.
Amazing stuff. Are you going to do a video to discuss the tradeoffs involved in moving the high speed spindle off the grizzly? Are you even keeping the grizzly given the other machines, or are you leaving it just for steel?
💪!
I have aways dialed a bit back the aggressively of the motor so that normal machining resonance does not induce the motor to be hunting for position all the time.
@clough42 Have you cut any chips on this machine? Would love to hear your thoughts about Acorn vs Mach4
I know that this is going to come up in the future, but the higher frequency sounds are coming through loud and piercingly clear on the youtube audio. I bet lots of people are going to comment about it.
Very happy there were no evil 35 lb plates used here.
I don't own any, for obvious reasons. :)
Damn James when did you get so swole?! 😂
Man can't wait to see it cut some aluminum.
I have to say after a few months of your videos: you're clearly the father I never had..
Those leed screws needs any lubrication it sounds rough is it normal?
Have you ever considered linear motors and/or encoders?
Your project are always so cool, Sir. Thanx for sharing your accomplishments (and errors, which relly helps ) with the whole world! Best regards from far Ukraine.
What clearpath servo motor model number did you use?
How are your y axis wired with those cleared path..hardware wire slaved.. please explain.
I would like to ask which model Clearpath motors that you decided to use on this Avid Pro cnc build?
Yes, would like to know what motors you’ve used
So I'm currently doing pretty much the same upgrade to my Onefinity CNC router with Clearpath Servos and the CNC4PC C86ACCP. Do you have limit switches on both Y axis for auto-squaring?
Nevermind, I can clearly see a sensor on both Y axis. The Centroid documentation has me a little confused on auto squaring between software and hardware paired yet the C86ACCP kinda already has the Y axis paired. Would love to pick your brain on this and also whether you wired ALL limit switches in series or if the Y limit switches need to be separate.
How did u spec which servo to buy?
James - can you please tell/show us in a future video how this new tool is better than the old Grizzly ?
So, If you were to build a second identical machine would the tuning still be necessary, or would a slight part indifference demand it too be tuned for optimal performance?
In theory, it would be the same, though I think what the machine is sitting on will affect the resonance.
1:01 - The lighting makes the CNC router look like it's a rendered picture, placed into the video after it was filmed. :P
How would you tell the difference?
@@Clough42 Since I at that moment, referred to the machine as both existing and looking like a render, I guess I can't tell for certain.
It just looks so smooth and vibrant, like the type of picture I get from doing V-ray renderings.
Why did you choose to go with Avid instead of the Tormach 24r? Based off my estimation a complete build would be nearly the same. I’m trying to decide between the two for my next cnc purchase. Thanks for the great video
I didn't even look at it. Looking now, the Tormach is at least 50% more, and looking at the photos, I think the Avid is more rigid, but I have never seen the Tormach in person, so I have no idea.
@@Clough42 I have looked at one in person. They are both good, but the Avid is designed better. The spindle depot atc spindle is also a big improvement.
very nice , how much that machine ? and what size can it cut i mean lit of thickness and how large the parts can it cut ?
They have different machines with different size work envelopes. You can check pricing on the Avid web site. Prices have risen somewhat since I placed my order in the middle of last year.
@@Clough42 thanks
Cnc curls
that much weight moving that fast on a CNC IN YOUR GARAGE????? Awesome.
what did you buy this to make? You already have two bench mills and one of those is a cnc machine with probably more rigidity. Is the idea to get a better finish on parts from the router over the vertical mills??
Larger work envelope.
Shorter sleeves when lifting the weight onto the mount.. to see more of the gun show.… would have been funny (to me).
That was supposed to be more awesomer! :-)
whatcha gonna do with the good ol' g0704 if you're stealin the spindle off of it?
Not sure yet. The shop is getting crowded. :)
I am a new user of an Acorn CNC. I am building a machine for gas lasers. If you have any ideas, yes. If not, I understand.
Wouldn’t the stiffness of the machine and resonance be completely different between the two axis?
Yes, but there aren't a lot of other awesome options. I could take off the gantry and bolt the weight directly to the Y axis plate, but that will have different flexibility and resonance, too. The goal is to get it close enough. We'll see.
Understood, sounds like they need to update their calibration software to allow for paired axis tuning. Until then I’m sure it’s close enough. Great job btw 👍
You think a CNC lathe will ever be on the books?
Why didn't you finish the diamond grinder project?
When do we get to see what all these new shiny tools are for? I'm certain all these new machines are not just for decoration.
If you look at history as a guide, it seems likely I'll use the tools to make more tools. :)
Of course, the most noble of projects 😁
What's the end goal with this Fab Shop you're setting up?
The way things are going I'm almost expecting "I just leased a 1100sq ft shop space" video in a few months. Haha
I'm having fun in the shop. I'd love to have fun in a bigger shop, but this is what I have for now.
Hey James, love the video as usual. I have a question for you and it's a little off topic but I wanted to ask you in particular having seen your journey in growing your shop and your weight loss journey. I have a Hwacheon HL-460, a bigger Taiwanese Bridgeport Mill, a surface grinder that needs fixing and a small waterjet in my garage that's sat in there for months and done nothing with. I have projects lined up. I have materials, I have tools, I used to love spending time in the shop, I would get off work every day, eat dinner and spend 5~6 hours in the shop before going to bed. I just can't seem to do it again though. How do you do it mate? What's your go to for getting out of a rut? I feel just stuck and have no idea what to do. It all happened when I had to wait 2 weeks to get a part to repair the waterjet and I stopped going into the shop. That repair part is still just sitting there and I can't for some reason stomach myself walking in there and fixing it for some reason.
I know you are not my therapist or anything but I was wondering if you had any tips for a fellow hobby machinist.
This is an interesting question, and I think there are a couple of ways to approach it. First, do you know why you feel the way you do? Are you anxious about the next step, are you overwhelmed by something else in your life? If you can identify something that's getting in the way, you might look to deal with that first. Otherwise, I would start by just identifying one small thing you can do that's a step toward a larger goal. Just look up the phone number of someone you need to call, or find the page in the manual that shows the part replacement procedure and read it. Look at the drawing and assemble the drills you'll need. Clean up the workbench to make space to work. Do something small that doesn't carry a lot of "psychological weight" and let that be enough for today. Tomorrow, identify one more small thing you can do and do that. At some point, if it's really something you enjoy doing, you'll get over the hump and keep moving. Sometimes just getting started is the hardest part.
@@Clough42 Thank you, words of wisdom right there. I really just need to force myself out there again and get to it. I've thought about it really hard and I think it scares me that even if I fix it something else will go wrong... Except that's true in any aspect of life.
@@explorewithred I struggle with similar feelings. Once I get something working, I'm afraid of breaking it, so it's hard to push the machine hard and let it do what it's made to do. I think I have too much mechanical sympathy.
@@Clough42 It doesn't help they all have names and I call them she/her hahaha. Thank you very much :)
Certain people need to eat dessert first. That means do the gratuitously fun thing and not the priority thing. Next thing you know you'll be working on the other stuff. It's a trick for getting unstuck when the things you 'should' be doing don't excite you.
15:05 Why wouldn't you connect the brake to the motor controller. The Controller would know that any time the motor needs to move, the brake needs to be released -- it should be transparent. If this is not possible, we should revisit the definition of "Controller."
awsamer
Since X, Y, and Z are common between a mill, plasma cutter, and laser engraver, would it make sense to have two other mounts on the z axis then drop in the water tank with slats, or a spoil board for engraving when needed. I was just thinking about saving shop floor space by combining the three tools.
Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to do for the router/mill and plasma. I think Avid makes water tables for these machines for exactly that reason. For the laser, though, I think the speeds needed for image engraving are so much higher that the inertia of this system will be too high.
Auto-tune, also known as "T-Pain mode"
It looks like you accounted for the weight of the spindle in your calculations, but the spindle wasn’t attached when you did the tuning. I think your weight estimate is off by 28 pounds so you should have added 14 more pounds for the tuning.
Not sure I follow. The 28lbs is included in the total of 140lbs, half of which is 70. The 30lbs is subtracted from that because it's already on the X axis, so I need to add 40.
I had the same thought. When I understood it right your weight calculation covered all mounted pieces, but not the missing spindle. So when doing the calculation, what to add for the Y axis, you missed out the half of the spindle motor.
@@Clough42 Sorry, you’re right. It makes sense now.
What kind of company sells a machine that needs this much work to get it running?
I believe it says "Avid" on the box. Perhaps you missed the part where I didn't buy their motors or electronics and built it all myself with other components.
looks so sweet. could totally break your arm.
I hope you have checked the weight of those weights. If it says in the weight "25lb" it doesn't mean it is really 25 pounds. ;-) It might be precise enough for a weightlifter that trains on that machine every day, but not for using as a calibrating weight.
Since I weighed the parts with a bathroom scale and I'm rounding to the nearest convenient 5lb weight, I think it'll be okay.
The probability of inserting a USB plug wrong way round first time is way higher than 50% for some reason...
It sure feels that way.
It is -- because it can only go in right in one orientation. The other three are incorrect.
You know, I think I'd rather have a fixed gantry with the table that moves. Simpler, maybe more rigid.
Apologies for being the "grammar police", but "make it even awesomer" isn't proper. The correct usage is "make it even more awesomer"
Point taken. Keep your eyes open and let me know if you see any speling erors as well.
It'd be more awesomer if you'd avoid grammar policing at all.
It was obviously intentional and not a mistake, therefore needs no correction.
@@electrowizard2000 HA! ... speaking of intentional....
If you were more careful, you would not have missed at least two more funnin's pretty much in a row right there.
Oh, the humanity!