Call it Vanilla Remastered. Finished all the zones, quest lines, dungeons, raids, and stories that were left incomplete by the original devs due to time constraints. Tweek the classes slightly to make them viable. Dont need balance but a prot paladin needs a taunt for example. Add more class/race specific quests and rewards.
very true, how much stuff in vanilla is broken unfinished and how many squares on the map are just blank and you cant even mouse over we dont even need to go far for vanilla+
i been thinkin about this a lot recently, but I feel like just slapping on more content doesnt really increase replayability; if we want classic+ to be something that retains players over a longer period of time (instead of having to release fresh servers every other year, which inevitably attracts less and less players) there needs to be some core changes to the gameplay aspect. what this is idk yet, please send me ur ideas if u think ur onto something :)
@brandonwilson4740 there's already a server that does all of that. new zones, dungeons, quests, raids, and talent/class changes to make certain specs more viable and fun. all in the 'vanilla 2005 spirit' design philosophy as well.
@@diagonal_leg did you actually read my comment or? New zones, raids and quests are additive, as in, you will run out of content unless they keep making more and more, which is not feasible (at least for the foreseeable future, yknow with classic having only like 6 people on the team). While yes, new content is great; I think the core gameplay loop needs to see changes in order to have larger player retention. right now we slurp up all the content and then NEW FRESH WHEN?? this inevitably leads to less and less players returning for each fresh experience. to give an example of something that increases player retention: the ability to make an alt character. this is not the best way of retention though, because not everyone wants to go through the same slog again just a little bit different. In fact I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that most people will only ever get 1 char to max (if at all). btw I say this as a person with 4 max lvls on classic, and I enjoyed lvling all of them.. kinda :) another example would be professions; they are an interesting way to provide depth to your character. sadly you can only roll 2 proffs, if u want to experiment with others you'd have to roll an alt (which, again, has it's own issues). a solid way to increase retention would be to open up all professions for a single character. (yes turtle wow does this, i know) TL:DR new content is temporary, how that content is consumed is what needs to be changed in order for any form of classic+ to retain a healthy player count over a longer period of time.
I think what lost me on SoD is the quick devolution into treating each "phase" like a retail major patch with "new raid, new gear, new zone" mentality. At first i didn't think lvl 25 epics was that bad but now it's really losing the vanilla wow feel to it.
It seems to me they're testing out which retail features will resonate with vanilla players. It also works as a form of conditioning for you guys once SoD is over. It could also just be the result of Blizzard's internal structure that leads to this type of game design.
Turtle wow is a good vanilla+, few change on classes to correct some stuff, new quest to make the leveling experience better, they added some items to make crafting relevant and they have the best hardcore rules. It s probably not the only one, but it's a very nice private server, that s why people mention twow when you talk about hardcore or vanilla plus. 😊
SoD put a lot of drastic changes to classic that's not really necessary. Like, we didn't need mage healers, but adjusting the abilities of non-priest classes really help them be more viable.
My version of Classic+ would have been Classic with a few changes. Add hardcore versions of dungeons, summon stones can be used, guild banks, 1-2 new raids *cough* Scarlet Monastery *cough*. 20 man Versions of the current classic raids, maybe some few minor changes to classes end game dmg so warrior/rogue isnt the only meta.
Retail is sht and so are "modes" get the hell outta here why this recycle bullsht that only devalues the lower difficulty? Make it hard or make it easy, 2 different raids GET OUT of here with your stupidity ffs. Your opinion is truly. Worthless.
except summoning stones and heroic mode style dungeons, all of this already exists in turtle wow. give it a shot, go in blind and it's literally the closest we've ever gotten to the "vanilla spirit" since 2005
There is 0 “minor” changes that could be made to stop warrior meta. It has to do with rage generation and scaling especially with world buffs. It would need to be an entire class design overhaul across the board
If they would be able to merge SoD and Classic with retail similar to remix and just make it being accesible via Caverns of Time it would be incredible. Even if all those mods will still be separate, it would add a lot of immersion.
all of this literally already exists in turtle wow, but also with new zones, new vanilla-style quests in existing zones, and niche specs buffed and made viable
@@bigbobfox91 you can feel however you like about private servers being a thing but the work they put in to making all the custom 'vanilla spirit' content and class changes is still commendable. obviously don't play it if you don't like private servers.
I have many ideas of what i would like to see in a classic plus scenario, especially with great private servers that have done amazing things with how they crafted wow in their own vision of the game(turtle wow, Ascension & Conquest of Azeroth), sure they have their own issues as they are made by player devs so they can get pretty crazy with their ideas. But for like an official Classic Plus, at this point i just want a world i can enjoy being in, the ability to create a class play style that suits or interest me, gear that means something when i equip it to my class so they dont feel like pretty stat sticks most of the time. So far the rune system of SoD is great in my opinion, sure its more rough here and there while being more hit or miss due to weird judgements of certain rune placements and adding existing abilities without adjusting them to fit the vanilla wow experience. But its a start to a system that allows for more niche class customization, and shows that classes are more then just their abilities or roles. *cough cough* Also add in the transmog system without the art team getting lazy in their designs, there's understandable issues but i dont like looking like i dont know how to dress myself. *cough cough*
Same problem happend with WoD garrisons. Blizz made competent content at least in sods case, but players' imaginations will always exceed what the devs put out just like garrisons
It's more a problem of reductive design ruining organic game play and fun. A great example of organic game play would be the importance of Un'goro for devilsaur leather in classic. It becomes highly contested and promotes cross-faction alliances A.K.A mafias to control the 'spice'. Players will form scouting parties, summoning networks, organize distribution, etc... and amongst that there will be spying, ratting, backstabbing, and all that great drama. Modern Blizzard would look at that and go, "Oh players seem to like fighting in certain zones. Let's get more people on board by turning one into a timed PvP event between factions that players have to grind to get items from a vendor."
@@arcc4 I think op is 100% correct, people have to high expectations and at the same time have much shorter attention spans. Which is the reason why a timed event is more preferable, people can't handle that type of abuse anymore they don't want the great drama. What you want is nostalgia that will never feel the same and never come back no matter how hard you try.
@@Bubajumba I think this is a strawman. We are talking wow here. Sure there are some new players, but most players know what they want and get. And they dont struggle with short attention spans. At least not the majority. I mean we are talking wow. Most players are older. Maybe thats not the case in retail, where you are coming from. there are definitely some more new and younger players. But we are talking classic
Like you said, ppl just wanted classic with extra content. SoD was always going to start hot and flop. It's essentially wrath or cata in classic azeroth. No one asked for that lol.
Ah yes, feeling immersed in an mmo *RPG* is such a bad thing, screw those "vanilla andies". Imagine enjoying your game to the degree you lose yourself in it, shame.
I wish they'd just make a completely new, modern version of WoW. Time jump forward a bit, give it a darker, grittier vibe akin to that of D2 or even D4. Even new faction alignments (3-4 groups).
Could it be that Blizzard Developers aren’t gamers?? Hmmm.. or the whole company isn’t really gamers… hmmM. It’s just a marketing company, not the best at game crafting.
I think they can wrap up Cata classic in like 1 year. There really wasn't that much max level content in that expansion. Then MoP classic and so on... until it catches up with retail and merges in.
Cata was trash we know it 10 years now, people who played it are equals, streamers who played it wanted more content created as they cannot think of anything intresting to stream in sod
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 a tool? man you sure have valid points, cata is so trash its hype lasted for a week, but generally speaking in this world the majority eats bad pizza or listens to bad music, take that for a fact
Maybe the reason why WoW still has a very large number of subscription is because of people like me who has sunk years and years into WoW and kept thinking that it must be the "better" game to justify all those years I've played. "It must be better, right? Because I've spent so many years into my character" or "I don't want to play another game because it'll be a waste of time and money". I dunno, maybe it's just me.
It's so hard to stay invested in remix. I like doing remix but it's just become a grind fest. I finished all 10 chapters of the campaign, did all the heroics raids and log daily to get world bosses and the dailies for the thread. But getting threads and bronze is such a chore. I hate making alts, so upgrading the gear is so slow by raiding normals for 22k. I got my LFR transmog sets which was my personal goal in remix, so I'm thinking it's time to start Cata now that the initial rush is slowing down
I started classic when it came out, i did choose to proceed to TBC but sadly before i could start it i'd have to stop playing. When i came back it was pre-cata classic. And i was there with a lvl60 character. I wish they'd ask if i want to proceed from TBC to Wotlk, etc. I wanted to play TBC! FeelsBadMan
I mean you would've been pretty alone in TBC probably at that time. I rather have them wait and then make TBC servers later again, when enough people are motivated to play it again
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Sounds good to me. FRESH TBC servers would be also freaking amazing. I mean everyone starting from lvl1, to70. And not a TBC server for the existing Classic Era lvl60s. Especially since my lvl60 is already in the Cataclysm servers although i didnt play a single minute of TBC yet even - i couldnt join the TBC servers with it from there.
That’s a huge lack of creativity, they just copy what was done in the past. There’s so many options to take wow in a creative direction, but idk if they only hire soulless people who can’t create or what.
I would gladly take remix style events over SoD any day. At the very least at the end of the event my characters are still playable on servers that have support/new content being developed. I've said it every time they make some seasonal server for classic that the characters we make in them need to be able to move to the classic progression servers having them be dead on era servers is incredibly stupid and leads to alot of people feeling like the end of the servers are a waste of time to play.
I played turtle wow and it was BAD. Shaman was as bad as ever and pretty much only nonsense changes, you can FEEL the bias and the personal agenda. Classic + cant be made for specific tastes you know? Just as vanilla never was (aside from mage masterrace, the mage bias is the strongest and longlasting in wow)
except the part where the server is filled with xiangs, the server dev sells gold hence all the gold sinks, the installer puts a trojan on your PC, the devs also sell your data to Chinese data brokers, the new added content is just huge rooms with mobs plopped in with no pathing, but other than that great server. (judging from the responses, there are a lot of really stupid people that refuse to see the truth lol. "It's free, so it's good" lmao.
@@Psilocybin77"big rooms with mobs without pathing" tells me you haven't even touched most of its custom content. try the fully custom gilneas zone, high elf zone, tel'abim island, or the caverns of time dungeon. there's a lot of chinese players but usually only around china peak time, they haven't flooded the server especially since they added the chinese only servers. one of the devs have some pretty damning controversies and a shady past that's for sure, but the game economy is way healthier than SoDs bot-ridden clusterfuck. a bot in turtle wow is a rare sight and GMs are active, gold trading is also heavily monitored. ppl need to stop having a hate boner for private servers. it's the closest thing to the 'vanilla spirit' we've gotten since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea then simply don't play it
@@Psilocybin77 most of this is just not true. it's not over flooded with chinese since they got their own servers, and its custom content is competently made. your comment about it being empty rooms and mobs with no pathing just says you haven't even tried it. its the closest we've gotten to the 'vanilla spirit', if you will, since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea, or you have some beef with one of the devs (one of em is shady AF that's the only true thing you've said), then don't play it. your raging private server hateboner doesn't do us any good mate
Turtle Wow is crazy good...its the vanilla feeling with just a tiny bit of extras or they added some talents here and there but not too much like in SoD...AND they focused on adding Questlines and Dungeons/raids instead of runes like in SoD which i really like.
the amount of fully custom content that isn't just recycled alpha leftovers or taken from other xpacs is also staggering. their take on gilneas feels like its straight out of og 2005 classic, kinda nutty. makes for a fun hc journey too when there's new content to explore
what wow needs is more pvp content epic bg, rts style like warcraft3, like warfronts but actually implemented. Blizzard isnt the same company lower your expectations
As long as they leave classic era alone, I'll be happy. Also, any "there are too many game modes" arguments basically translate to "everyone needs to play the version of wow I prefer".
I don't want a Classic+, I want a new generation of WoW. Start from square 1 using all the graphics and system improvements they have made over the years. Retail would be a good game if it wasn't for all the bloat on mounts, pets, abilities, talents, gear/transmogs, etc that have accumulated over the years; nothing really feels special anymore there. Just scale up all raids to max level so people can endlessly run whatever they want and let retail go on maintenance mode. Start something new.
Turtle WOW is the real Classic + :) Vanilla + Custom new vanilla content .. new dungeons , new loot , new raids , new Tier 3,5 set new Tier 4 set :) so a P-server owns a Billion dollars company "_=
People want TBC and Wrath servers because they don't actually enjoy patch progression reseting thousands of hours of work every couple of month. I want a wow more than classic era that's a set it and forget it feeling, I want to know the time in investing will give me a return of being able to play by BiS Class X with Spec Y character on patch Z anytime I want at any point in the future. I play every class + spec on Warmane for wotlk at a 2k+ rating and I enjoy it, on classic wow I could barely even get 1 character BiS during TBC and when I did half way through I realized I didn't enjoy the spec and was constantly behind trying to regear for a different spec. I play to casually to compete with people spending 1000k USD every month on GDKP for gear that's worthless in a couple months.
8:50 No, the introduction in Retail WoW is that dogshit. The first hour of the game is the most important, and nothing kills it then for the first 10 levels, almost the first WHOLE HOUR are being held by a hand, and you are being dumped a lot of pointless info and dialogue of character you will never see again, instead just let the player figure out stuff on a slower pace, like Wow Classic race starting zones.
Something wow remix made me realize is just how bad level scaling effects the leveling experience as well in dungeons. Being level 65 as a healer is pure torture. Low level players in heroics are like gods, and then they have that power ripped away from them as they progress.....and then they can finally play the game at 70. Its completely backwards. I would not be surprised if many new players get discouraged and quit the closer to max level they get because they feel like they arent performing well, when in reality its just the game throttling them.
Basically most people when they said classic plus ment they wanted to see the scrapped content that we didn’t see so far personally I like the rune system but incursions was the worst thing ever to classic wow and I really hope it’s not an indication as to were classic plus would be heading
Classic is in a weird spot. Cataclysm isn't Classic for me, I'm not going down that road again. The problem I have with SoD is that the runes are too OP. Take Penance, at low lvl it does like 4/5x? the damage of 1 Smite. It's out of tune and makes lvl'ing easy and the world less dangerous. So I'm looking into Turtle Wow atm and will check out SoD phase 4 later. Also Project Epoch (not out yet) sounds interesting. If Blizzard isn't delivering Classic+, people turn to private servers that do.
I can only imagine its kids that want that because how do you think wow 2 will differ? Just a new engine and all the old problems are gone? Is this a serious take?
Turtle WoW sells your data, sells gold (while banning all rmt from players), they install trojans on your PC so they can target any RMT and other mallicious crap, the "Plus" amounts to giant rooms with a bunch of mobs plopped in with zero pathing or sense of gameplay, and not to forget that the server is over crowded with Xiangs that have no sense of propriety and zero desire to be competent or considerate. If that sounds like your bag, go for it.
most of this is just not true. it's not over flooded with chinese and its custom content is competently made. its the closest we've gotten to the 'vanilla spirit', if you will, since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea, or you have some beef with one of the devs, then don't play it.
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Be gone WoW addict, your ad-hominem attacks have no power here!!!!!!! Instead of sinking all your time into a video game improve yourself, KNOW thyself (not biblically), find real purpose in your life. The sense of purpose in life you seek will never be found in a video game.
And what are retail players doing? Trying to recreate the 7th circle of hell? Why any of you give a shit what other people do with their time will always be beyond me. However, understand this; you are 1000000x more pathetic than someone "trying to recreate their childhood" simply by giving a shit that someone is "trying to recreate their childhood". Also, if that was the case, what's so bad about that? Just because your childhood was horrific and sad doesn't mean every person's childhood was the same. Misery really does love company. BTW, I love what you tried to do there "I hate vanilla therefore it is bad" nobody who tried to "recreate their childhood" thought classic vanilla sucked, that's cope from you because you so desperately want everyone to agree with you. Classic vanilla is still and will always be the best time I've had in WoW in a decade atleast and the same goes for maaany people.
Or ppl just want to have some fun gaming. I dont know how you can take that stuff so serious and overanalyze it so much. Most of us just work 10+ hours a day and want to have some fun afterwards and at the weekend. And for me that fun is classic wow. Sue me.
Guzu continues to have a convenient memory and to be a fanboy. SoD was not what we wanted. We certainly didn't ask for it to be PvP centered. That is not what classic+ we asked for was. We Wanted them to fix the bugs, put in the stuff that was never completed, put in the stuff that was made and never put on the live servers, maybe fix a couple of balance issues by a few simple gear tweaks and maybe add some side content that re-used existing content. And MANY of us told them Don't Do Cataclysm. We didn't want it. We still don't want it. And we won't play it. The Skill trees are crap. It it invalidates everything done in WoW in Classic/TBC/Wotlk in regards to your character design and progression.
Call it Vanilla Remastered. Finished all the zones, quest lines, dungeons, raids, and stories that were left incomplete by the original devs due to time constraints. Tweek the classes slightly to make them viable. Dont need balance but a prot paladin needs a taunt for example. Add more class/race specific quests and rewards.
very true, how much stuff in vanilla is broken unfinished and how many squares on the map are just blank and you cant even mouse over
we dont even need to go far for vanilla+
Turtle wow dawg
i been thinkin about this a lot recently, but I feel like just slapping on more content doesnt really increase replayability; if we want classic+ to be something that retains players over a longer period of time (instead of having to release fresh servers every other year, which inevitably attracts less and less players) there needs to be some core changes to the gameplay aspect.
what this is idk yet, please send me ur ideas if u think ur onto something :)
@brandonwilson4740 there's already a server that does all of that. new zones, dungeons, quests, raids, and talent/class changes to make certain specs more viable and fun. all in the 'vanilla 2005 spirit' design philosophy as well.
@@diagonal_leg did you actually read my comment or?
New zones, raids and quests are additive, as in, you will run out of content unless they keep making more and more, which is not feasible (at least for the foreseeable future, yknow with classic having only like 6 people on the team).
While yes, new content is great; I think the core gameplay loop needs to see changes in order to have larger player retention.
right now we slurp up all the content and then NEW FRESH WHEN?? this inevitably leads to less and less players returning for each fresh experience.
to give an example of something that increases player retention: the ability to make an alt character.
this is not the best way of retention though, because not everyone wants to go through the same slog again just a little bit different. In fact I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that most people will only ever get 1 char to max (if at all). btw I say this as a person with 4 max lvls on classic, and I enjoyed lvling all of them.. kinda :)
another example would be professions; they are an interesting way to provide depth to your character.
sadly you can only roll 2 proffs, if u want to experiment with others you'd have to roll an alt (which, again, has it's own issues).
a solid way to increase retention would be to open up all professions for a single character. (yes turtle wow does this, i know)
TL:DR
new content is temporary, how that content is consumed is what needs to be changed in order for any form of classic+ to retain a healthy player count over a longer period of time.
I think what lost me on SoD is the quick devolution into treating each "phase" like a retail major patch with "new raid, new gear, new zone" mentality. At first i didn't think lvl 25 epics was that bad but now it's really losing the vanilla wow feel to it.
It seems to me they're testing out which retail features will resonate with vanilla players. It also works as a form of conditioning for you guys once SoD is over. It could also just be the result of Blizzard's internal structure that leads to this type of game design.
Not gonna lie... I always through that SoD WAS going to be classic+. So far. I've been having a lot of fun with it. Yes, Even running ST has been fun.
If anything, its retail minus. Most of what makes classic feel like classic has been thrown out the window other than the map itself.
You're pretty much alone in that now.
@@dominic2196 tell it to my guild I guess?
"what are we going to do after cata" WE RUN IT ALL THE WAY BACK and get a true classic plus.
Turtle wow is a good vanilla+, few change on classes to correct some stuff, new quest to make the leveling experience better, they added some items to make crafting relevant and they have the best hardcore rules.
It s probably not the only one, but it's a very nice private server, that s why people mention twow when you talk about hardcore or vanilla plus. 😊
Blizzard should fire the walnut(s) who made Nightmare Incursions.
"a sub is a sub" is how it should be. Give people the choice to play whatever they want, legally.
I fkin LOVE Turtle wow! Always felt it was a shame Guzu can't play it :(
SoD put a lot of drastic changes to classic that's not really necessary.
Like, we didn't need mage healers, but adjusting the abilities of non-priest classes really help them be more viable.
My version of Classic+ would have been Classic with a few changes. Add hardcore versions of dungeons, summon stones can be used, guild banks, 1-2 new raids *cough* Scarlet Monastery *cough*. 20 man Versions of the current classic raids, maybe some few minor changes to classes end game dmg so warrior/rogue isnt the only meta.
Retail is sht and so are "modes" get the hell outta here why this recycle bullsht that only devalues the lower difficulty?
Make it hard or make it easy, 2 different raids GET OUT of here with your stupidity ffs.
Your opinion is truly. Worthless.
Also allow rogues to wear plate and dual wield 2h weapons and cast spells and heal and ranged
100% agree, just small tweaks. Plus more world content. Finish Azshara, add all the missing zones just more Azeroth.
except summoning stones and heroic mode style dungeons, all of this already exists in turtle wow. give it a shot, go in blind and it's literally the closest we've ever gotten to the "vanilla spirit" since 2005
There is 0 “minor” changes that could be made to stop warrior meta. It has to do with rage generation and scaling especially with world buffs. It would need to be an entire class design overhaul across the board
If they would be able to merge SoD and Classic with retail similar to remix and just make it being accesible via Caverns of Time it would be incredible. Even if all those mods will still be separate, it would add a lot of immersion.
Classic+ is classic with tbc talents and spells, dual talent and new dungeons and raids in azeroth.
all of this literally already exists in turtle wow, but also with new zones, new vanilla-style quests in existing zones, and niche specs buffed and made viable
Bro stop promoting a private Server .. Its Not official and literally nobody is interested in this 😂
@@bigbobfox91 you can feel however you like about private servers being a thing but the work they put in to making all the custom 'vanilla spirit' content and class changes is still commendable. obviously don't play it if you don't like private servers.
I have many ideas of what i would like to see in a classic plus scenario, especially with great private servers that have done amazing things with how they crafted wow in their own vision of the game(turtle wow, Ascension & Conquest of Azeroth), sure they have their own issues as they are made by player devs so they can get pretty crazy with their ideas.
But for like an official Classic Plus, at this point i just want a world i can enjoy being in, the ability to create a class play style that suits or interest me, gear that means something when i equip it to my class so they dont feel like pretty stat sticks most of the time. So far the rune system of SoD is great in my opinion, sure its more rough here and there while being more hit or miss due to weird judgements of certain rune placements and adding existing abilities without adjusting them to fit the vanilla wow experience. But its a start to a system that allows for more niche class customization, and shows that classes are more then just their abilities or roles.
*cough cough* Also add in the transmog system without the art team getting lazy in their designs, there's understandable issues but i dont like looking like i dont know how to dress myself. *cough cough*
Same problem happend with WoD garrisons. Blizz made competent content at least in sods case, but players' imaginations will always exceed what the devs put out just like garrisons
It's more a problem of reductive design ruining organic game play and fun. A great example of organic game play would be the importance of Un'goro for devilsaur leather in classic. It becomes highly contested and promotes cross-faction alliances A.K.A mafias to control the 'spice'. Players will form scouting parties, summoning networks, organize distribution, etc... and amongst that there will be spying, ratting, backstabbing, and all that great drama. Modern Blizzard would look at that and go, "Oh players seem to like fighting in certain zones. Let's get more people on board by turning one into a timed PvP event between factions that players have to grind to get items from a vendor."
@@arcc4 I think op is 100% correct, people have to high expectations and at the same time have much shorter attention spans. Which is the reason why a timed event is more preferable, people can't handle that type of abuse anymore they don't want the great drama. What you want is nostalgia that will never feel the same and never come back no matter how hard you try.
@@arcc4 Hit the nail
@@Bubajumba I think this is a strawman. We are talking wow here. Sure there are some new players, but most players know what they want and get. And they dont struggle with short attention spans. At least not the majority. I mean we are talking wow. Most players are older. Maybe thats not the case in retail, where you are coming from. there are definitely some more new and younger players. But we are talking classic
"hopefully, SURELY, perhaps, MAYBE that's gonna be in cata" rofl 2:44
Madseason's recent video covers a ton of stuff they could add into a Classic+
Like you said, ppl just wanted classic with extra content. SoD was always going to start hot and flop. It's essentially wrath or cata in classic azeroth. No one asked for that lol.
"Feeling immersed in the game" is not something I have EVER heard from a "retail" player. That's something vanilla andies go on and on about.
Ah yes, feeling immersed in an mmo *RPG* is such a bad thing, screw those "vanilla andies".
Imagine enjoying your game to the degree you lose yourself in it, shame.
You didn't play during WotLK then.
@@donaldwiggins9890 Oh my, a larper. Just so you know, literally nobody who played during WotLK was calling the game "retail" back then.
Go buy storemount or something and get instant gratification. No need to worry about stupid classic players and their immersions...
@@aapoapina7390 Who are you talking to?
Classic classic classic... Thats so classic
I wish they'd just make a completely new, modern version of WoW. Time jump forward a bit, give it a darker, grittier vibe akin to that of D2 or even D4. Even new faction alignments (3-4 groups).
People saying “that’s just on Steam tho” are just coping lol
ESO is far more popular OFF steam than it is ON steam. People who don't know this don't know how shit it is on Steam.
wow is bigger than everybody, BUT the comparison was shown between CONCURRENT PLAYERS and MONTHLY subs, that is completely retarded comparison.
Could it be that Blizzard Developers aren’t gamers?? Hmmm.. or the whole company isn’t really gamers… hmmM.
It’s just a marketing company, not the best at game crafting.
For the first time after 2 decades agrend is a gamer
Garbage game, garbage company
@@sirdernosoftides8137 dog shit ass garbage, agreed. Why does everyone keep eating that shit up? Lawl
I think they can wrap up Cata classic in like 1 year. There really wasn't that much max level content in that expansion. Then MoP classic and so on... until it catches up with retail and merges in.
Cata was trash we know it 10 years now, people who played it are equals, streamers who played it wanted more content created as they cannot think of anything intresting to stream in sod
I mean firelands is supposed to drop in october this year and dragonsoul is supposed to drop in Jan 2025, so probably a year
@@shifterashtongue2684 I love people like you that just sound like absolute tools in the comments. Good stuff
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 a tool? man you sure have valid points, cata is so trash its hype lasted for a week, but generally speaking in this world the majority eats bad pizza or listens to bad music, take that for a fact
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 what you gonna do next comment on my english?
HARDCORE BC WHEN. ITS WHATS FOR DINNER!
I raid log SOD and PvP cataclysm.
Maybe the reason why WoW still has a very large number of subscription is because of people like me who has sunk years and years into WoW and kept thinking that it must be the "better" game to justify all those years I've played. "It must be better, right? Because I've spent so many years into my character" or "I don't want to play another game because it'll be a waste of time and money". I dunno, maybe it's just me.
Thats the retail players mentality, thats why blizz keeps tossing shitty expansions for years now, with terrible lore stories of another company
the way i escaped wow is by getting permanently banned, try it.
@@shifterashtongue2684 Maybe you're right.
It's so hard to stay invested in remix. I like doing remix but it's just become a grind fest. I finished all 10 chapters of the campaign, did all the heroics raids and log daily to get world bosses and the dailies for the thread. But getting threads and bronze is such a chore. I hate making alts, so upgrading the gear is so slow by raiding normals for 22k. I got my LFR transmog sets which was my personal goal in remix, so I'm thinking it's time to start Cata now that the initial rush is slowing down
I started classic when it came out, i did choose to proceed to TBC but sadly before i could start it i'd have to stop playing. When i came back it was pre-cata classic. And i was there with a lvl60 character. I wish they'd ask if i want to proceed from TBC to Wotlk, etc. I wanted to play TBC! FeelsBadMan
I mean you would've been pretty alone in TBC probably at that time. I rather have them wait and then make TBC servers later again, when enough people are motivated to play it again
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Sounds good to me. FRESH TBC servers would be also freaking amazing. I mean everyone starting from lvl1, to70. And not a TBC server for the existing Classic Era lvl60s. Especially since my lvl60 is already in the Cataclysm servers although i didnt play a single minute of TBC yet even - i couldnt join the TBC servers with it from there.
I was saying sod was too extreme after phase 1... glad to see everyone else is figuring it out
I play Era and SoD, I will never touch Retail and Retail- Cata.
That’s a huge lack of creativity, they just copy what was done in the past.
There’s so many options to take wow in a creative direction, but idk if they only hire soulless people who can’t create or what.
I would gladly take remix style events over SoD any day. At the very least at the end of the event my characters are still playable on servers that have support/new content being developed. I've said it every time they make some seasonal server for classic that the characters we make in them need to be able to move to the classic progression servers having them be dead on era servers is incredibly stupid and leads to alot of people feeling like the end of the servers are a waste of time to play.
You can never say WoW is dead until the day we see the Goldshire inn on realm Moonguard completely empty. 😂
I JUST WANT A FRESHHHHH
i found lvling another toon in cata was fun because alot of new zones to me because of the changed old zones.
End wow with some void related universe traveling and start wow2 in azeroth 2.0
So hes saying we get too many games for 1 subscription lol
fresh is ok but fck it .. I want classic+ with all zones unlocked and finished !
Oh no, we've too much choice, who do they think they are?
Turtle wow is a solid slice of wow content, it’s classic + take showcased in a well packaged and released format.
I played turtle wow and it was BAD.
Shaman was as bad as ever and pretty much only nonsense changes, you can FEEL the bias and the personal agenda.
Classic + cant be made for specific tastes you know? Just as vanilla never was (aside from mage masterrace, the mage bias is the strongest and longlasting in wow)
except the part where the server is filled with xiangs, the server dev sells gold hence all the gold sinks, the installer puts a trojan on your PC, the devs also sell your data to Chinese data brokers, the new added content is just huge rooms with mobs plopped in with no pathing, but other than that great server. (judging from the responses, there are a lot of really stupid people that refuse to see the truth lol. "It's free, so it's good" lmao.
Yeah let’s spend time on a corrupt ps flooded with Russians and Asians. Hard pass.
@@Psilocybin77"big rooms with mobs without pathing" tells me you haven't even touched most of its custom content. try the fully custom gilneas zone, high elf zone, tel'abim island, or the caverns of time dungeon.
there's a lot of chinese players but usually only around china peak time, they haven't flooded the server especially since they added the chinese only servers. one of the devs have some pretty damning controversies and a shady past that's for sure, but the game economy is way healthier than SoDs bot-ridden clusterfuck. a bot in turtle wow is a rare sight and GMs are active, gold trading is also heavily monitored.
ppl need to stop having a hate boner for private servers. it's the closest thing to the 'vanilla spirit' we've gotten since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea then simply don't play it
@@Psilocybin77 most of this is just not true. it's not over flooded with chinese since they got their own servers, and its custom content is competently made. your comment about it being empty rooms and mobs with no pathing just says you haven't even tried it. its the closest we've gotten to the 'vanilla spirit', if you will, since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea, or you have some beef with one of the devs (one of em is shady AF that's the only true thing you've said), then don't play it. your raging private server hateboner doesn't do us any good mate
Planned Classic Releases:
MoP: 2025
WoD: 2026
Legion: 2027
BfA: 2028
Shadowlands: 2029
Dragonflight: 2030
The War Within: 2031
Midnight: 2032
The Last Titan: 2033.
Turtle Wow is crazy good...its the vanilla feeling with just a tiny bit of extras or they added some talents here and there but not too much like in SoD...AND they focused on adding Questlines and Dungeons/raids instead of runes like in SoD which i really like.
the amount of fully custom content that isn't just recycled alpha leftovers or taken from other xpacs is also staggering. their take on gilneas feels like its straight out of og 2005 classic, kinda nutty. makes for a fun hc journey too when there's new content to explore
what wow needs is more pvp content epic bg, rts style like warcraft3, like warfronts but actually implemented. Blizzard isnt the same company lower your expectations
Yes classic+ is Cata it's actually fun and later MoP plz :D
As long as they leave classic era alone, I'll be happy.
Also, any "there are too many game modes" arguments basically translate to "everyone needs to play the version of wow I prefer".
WoW should be owned by Hasbro. So they can make millions of different versions of it like they do with Monopoly.
MoP Remixx is IMO very fun
ERA is G.O.A.T
Time to stream some Turtle WoW.
Why haven't you already done this?
the next version I am asking for is a season where all mobs are elite. That would be a lot of fun :).
you dont remember classic minus? ^^
I don't want a Classic+, I want a new generation of WoW. Start from square 1 using all the graphics and system improvements they have made over the years. Retail would be a good game if it wasn't for all the bloat on mounts, pets, abilities, talents, gear/transmogs, etc that have accumulated over the years; nothing really feels special anymore there.
Just scale up all raids to max level so people can endlessly run whatever they want and let retail go on maintenance mode. Start something new.
Turtle WOW is the real Classic + :) Vanilla + Custom new vanilla content .. new dungeons , new loot , new raids , new Tier 3,5 set new Tier 4 set :) so a P-server owns a Billion dollars company "_=
How many times do we need to watch the same video?
Game modes are terrible, varied content within one game should be the aim.
Cat classic feels like retail with the map change of goodbye classic run back to retail to farm mounts and transmogs
Turtle wow is garbo tbh
lmao using Steam charts for other MMOs
I feel like this content is cheese, using someone else’s hard work.
Depends where you focus for me its retail played the others already and hee im a father less time😂
I mean they allrdy copied an acention server for sod and failed miserably not gonna be surprised if they steal more at an attempt at classic +
People want TBC and Wrath servers because they don't actually enjoy patch progression reseting thousands of hours of work every couple of month. I want a wow more than classic era that's a set it and forget it feeling, I want to know the time in investing will give me a return of being able to play by BiS Class X with Spec Y character on patch Z anytime I want at any point in the future. I play every class + spec on Warmane for wotlk at a 2k+ rating and I enjoy it, on classic wow I could barely even get 1 character BiS during TBC and when I did half way through I realized I didn't enjoy the spec and was constantly behind trying to regear for a different spec. I play to casually to compete with people spending 1000k USD every month on GDKP for gear that's worthless in a couple months.
8:50 No, the introduction in Retail WoW is that dogshit. The first hour of the game is the most important, and nothing kills it then for the first 10 levels, almost the first WHOLE HOUR are being held by a hand, and you are being dumped a lot of pointless info and dialogue of character you will never see again, instead just let the player figure out stuff on a slower pace, like Wow Classic race starting zones.
Something wow remix made me realize is just how bad level scaling effects the leveling experience as well in dungeons. Being level 65 as a healer is pure torture. Low level players in heroics are like gods, and then they have that power ripped away from them as they progress.....and then they can finally play the game at 70. Its completely backwards. I would not be surprised if many new players get discouraged and quit the closer to max level they get because they feel like they arent performing well, when in reality its just the game throttling them.
This guy is like way too fucking negative, NGL.
ST the raid itself is fine… there’s just no reason to run it. The gear sucks 🤦🏼♂️
Fresh vanilla but with chronoboon from the start nothing else
its crazy how addicted wow players are
i just want the wow classic experience with the wow retail visuals
vanilla fresh, no changes please, old honor system! never asked for this classic plus crap
Basically most people when they said classic plus ment they wanted to see the scrapped content that we didn’t see so far personally I like the rune system but incursions was the worst thing ever to classic wow and I really hope it’s not an indication as to were classic plus would be heading
Turtle WoW is basically what Classic + should be
All I want is Classic fresh servers with achivements. I want to complete them all!
Classic is in a weird spot. Cataclysm isn't Classic for me, I'm not going down that road again. The problem I have with SoD is that the runes are too OP. Take Penance, at low lvl it does like 4/5x? the damage of 1 Smite. It's out of tune and makes lvl'ing easy and the world less dangerous. So I'm looking into Turtle Wow atm and will check out SoD phase 4 later. Also Project Epoch (not out yet) sounds interesting. If Blizzard isn't delivering Classic+, people turn to private servers that do.
Blizzard needs to stop milking players wallets with old warcraft and make a new Engine Game World of warcraft 2
I can only imagine its kids that want that because how do you think wow 2 will differ? Just a new engine and all the old problems are gone? Is this a serious take?
lmao wow pronouns
That was a good one
Turtle WoW sells your data, sells gold (while banning all rmt from players), they install trojans on your PC so they can target any RMT and other mallicious crap, the "Plus" amounts to giant rooms with a bunch of mobs plopped in with zero pathing or sense of gameplay, and not to forget that the server is over crowded with Xiangs that have no sense of propriety and zero desire to be competent or considerate. If that sounds like your bag, go for it.
most of this is just not true. it's not over flooded with chinese and its custom content is competently made. its the closest we've gotten to the 'vanilla spirit', if you will, since 2005. if that's not your cup of tea, or you have some beef with one of the devs, then don't play it.
Ah this guy got 100% banned from turtle wow for saying cringe stuff in world
@@diagonal_leg Oh I forgot, they also nerfed many classic gold farms and introduced massive gold sinks so the devs can sell more gold.
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Be gone WoW addict, your ad-hominem attacks have no power here!!!!!!! Instead of sinking all your time into a video game improve yourself, KNOW thyself (not biblically), find real purpose in your life. The sense of purpose in life you seek will never be found in a video game.
@@Psilocybin77 devs don't sell gold. whats with the raging hateboner? what did you get banned for?
Classic people are trying relive their childhood. I see same thing with cars. They buy a classic cars and then relies 60s technology sucks.
And what are retail players doing? Trying to recreate the 7th circle of hell?
Why any of you give a shit what other people do with their time will always be beyond me. However, understand this; you are 1000000x more pathetic than someone "trying to recreate their childhood" simply by giving a shit that someone is "trying to recreate their childhood".
Also, if that was the case, what's so bad about that? Just because your childhood was horrific and sad doesn't mean every person's childhood was the same.
Misery really does love company.
BTW, I love what you tried to do there "I hate vanilla therefore it is bad" nobody who tried to "recreate their childhood" thought classic vanilla sucked, that's cope from you because you so desperately want everyone to agree with you. Classic vanilla is still and will always be the best time I've had in WoW in a decade atleast and the same goes for maaany people.
Or ppl just want to have some fun gaming. I dont know how you can take that stuff so serious and overanalyze it so much. Most of us just work 10+ hours a day and want to have some fun afterwards and at the weekend. And for me that fun is classic wow. Sue me.
Guzu continues to have a convenient memory and to be a fanboy.
SoD was not what we wanted. We certainly didn't ask for it to be PvP centered. That is not what classic+ we asked for was. We Wanted them to fix the bugs, put in the stuff that was never completed, put in the stuff that was made and never put on the live servers, maybe fix a couple of balance issues by a few simple gear tweaks and maybe add some side content that re-used existing content.
And MANY of us told them Don't Do Cataclysm. We didn't want it. We still don't want it. And we won't play it. The Skill trees are crap. It it invalidates everything done in WoW in Classic/TBC/Wotlk in regards to your character design and progression.