Then littlefinger would have to change his entire plan if ned left kings landing and ned would inform everyone about cersei's incest. If ned accepted renly sellswords then we still have war with tywin lannister and stannis, it still be the war for the stag's throne.
As much as LF loves chaos, there is need for some stability afterwards to enjoy his gains. He borrowed money to give Robert a false sense of security, and thus to ensure the peace (and his position) for a while longer
No it’s not, little finger was a genius with money and is the only reason the crown isn’t in more debt than it is. roberts ridiculous spending is the reason why they’re in the hole
fps carson Then Eddard would still father lyanna's son and keep her secret, and Jon snow would have no reason to join the nights watch, Ned would try to raise his own Land and castle.
@@leonpaelinck by the time Renly died Robb was already crowned King in the North, so he owed Stannis no allegiance, remember, this is based on the TV show not the books, I know in the books it would have been imposible unless Robb and Margaery where betrothed before the war, but once again that would have interfered with Mace's wish of marriying into the Iron Throne (that's the whole reason why they supported Renly in the first place)
What if Ned accepted Renly's offer to help him take the iron throne from cersei before he and loras fled King's Landing? Also, if you're going to do more vs episodes, Bronn vs Locke
There is another thing you might've addressed. LF was the wizard behind the Crown's financial situation. As the Master of Coin, he saw the Crown's revenues grow tenfold. Ofcourse, Robert's extravagant spending also increased the debt to the tune of 6 million dragons. But LF kept up the pretense that the financial situation was fine and that the realm was doing okay. He kept pretending that the money showed up from nowhere - when he was actually borrowing it. Now, the biggest impact of his monetary policy is that the realm in now beggared and in huge debt. Would things have been better with someone else as Master of Coin or would they have been even worse? Another thing - I recently read a theory that LF was on his way back to the Vale when he saw Rhaegar elope with Lyanna. The theory goes that he was the one who told Brandon about it - except, presenting it as a kidnapping instead of an elopement. If true, how do you think that might've changed without LF?
I am sorry the theory is dumb of LF seeing Rhaegar elope with Lyanna. He see the torment and maybe found out later about it with his climb to power. LF was nothing back then with duel with Brandon Stark.
I think the Littlefinger with the finances was certainly important, but I have to say that I can't call him a wizard (and I'll make my case briefly). I think Tyrion laid it out pretty clearly that Baelish was doing a terrible job because he just kept borrowing money, going deeper into debt. I'm sure this was done intentionally because he knows how the Iron Bank works and they'll want their $ back, so they'll find someone else (playing the long-game for him to take the throne). I do agree that the financial situation would've changed regardless, for sure! I'll have to think on that theory a little bit more. IF he did do it for sure, I'm not sure how much it would've changed really...gah. Okay, lemme think sir! Good post, Martin!
The way I heard that theory was that Lyanna Stark sent a message to Brandon (and the rest of the family, who were heading to Riverrun for Brandons wedding) about her eloping and marrying that Targaryien Prince. Which would have annoyed the Starks and infurated Robert but probably not start any wars. But it arrived a few days after the duel and Littlefinger intercepted it, while recuperating there from his injuries and badly wanting revenge. So Brandon would have known that there was no abduction, and probably lived, if it wasn't for Littlefinger. Wish I could remember where I heard this theory.
Suggestion: in one of the "History and Lore" clips, Jamie reminisce about killing Aeris and give a very interesting insight too his own thoughts. he tells us, that after he slayed the king his fathers knights enter the throne room and basicly ask him, who would be king now and Jamie was seriously contemplating to piss of Robert and Ned by announcing little Vaserys as King, with Tywin as Hand and Regent. and that just blew my mind! Soooo: What if, Vaserys takes over his fathers throne and is raised by Tywin?
I can think of a bunch more. The Hill Tribes people who tried to ambush Catlyn Stark's envoy, Rickon Stark, Ramsey Bolton, Talisa Stark, all the Freys (though this was before that episode, so I can forgive that), that Vale Knight who fought Bronn, Won Won, and worst of all, most of the dire wolves.
There's also a theory that LF was the one that told Brandon about Rhaegar "kidnapping" Lyanna so if that's true maybe even RR's would have been avoided
The better question is, "what if Jaime and Brienne hooked up?" I think his hotness and her ugliness would balance out to form an average-looking blond kid.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 And since he holds Lysa hostage at Casterly Rock, the Tullys are unlikely to join Robert's Rebellion, meaning Ned and Catelyn wouldn't have been married and the scales would've been tipped quite a lot more to the loyalist side.
If she knew the truth she would be alot kinder to him,she was just bitter cause she thought its neds bastard.....it would probably change whole storyline with nightwatch cause Jon would stay at winterfell and greyjoys..he might have be succesful at defending winterfell against Theon
@@666MIHI lmao defending winterfell against Theon. instead when Catelyn knew that he's Aegon Targaryen Robb would rally to put his nephew on the iron throne; they'd use knowledge of Howland Reed to strengthen his claim. with Aegon Dorne and Reach would rally to Aegon's and Robb's side. maybe marriage pact between Houses Martell & Targaryen and Tyrell & Stark would be forged.
Jon might have found out about his true parents a lot sooner. Cause Ned told him they would talk about it when Ned got back from King's Landing, and in this scenario of yours, Ned would never have gone to King's Landing in the first place. So when Jon went to the wall he would still be in contact with everyone in his family, and maybe when they did talk Ned might start to listen about the White Walker threat, which could lead to him rallying the North against it like super early.
I believe I asked this, but what if Lyanna Stark had loved Robert Baratheon as much as he loved her? In other words, what if Lyanna had not run away with Rhaegar Targaryen and instead, married Robert Baratheon? Here's what I think.
Great summary! What if he was the one to originally report the the "kidnapping" of Lyanna Stark? Had he died from his duel wound, perhaps Rhaegar could have made peace with the Starks and Robert's Rebellion would have failed? Maybe also Lysa Tulley would not have gone crazy, as she wouldn't have gotten pregnant by him and therefore wouldn't have been forced by her abusive father to have an abortion. Wow. this whole story could have been completely different!
What if Ned accepted Renly's offer of 100 men, took his advice to attack Cersei and take Jeoffrey into custody immediately following Robert naming him protector of the realm?
Ya but it also has the factor of what if Renly died. Maybe a better question would be "What if the boar killed all of them" (Renly, Robert, and Barristan)
Great video! I also think that the events of Robert's rebellion wouldn't happen if Littlefinger was dead. I'm convinced that Lyanna left something to warn her brother about her decision to leave. I mean she knew Brandon would react badly, the Stark children were pretty close to each other. And it alla comes down to Catelyn again! hahaha
this videos (what if) makes me feel bad, cuz i want those things to happen but we know what actually happened and thats make me sad, but keep doing this, love your videos
You might well be right but Ned married her to ensure the Tullys sided with them in the war - if Catelyn's husband was killed they would probably have to seek revenge as well, Ned wouldn't have to do anything. Not to mention the possibility of Catelyn becoming pregnant with Brandon's child after the bedding ceremony. How does that affect Ned's claim to Winterfell?
Jon would be Jon sand, the bastard of starfall and they have no support from anyone, jon snow is better living in winterfell with ned and his family, plus he gets master at arms and maester, stable rider both for education until his old enough to get a career.
I shall write this down! Off the top of my head, I assume it'd end the same that it did (for the most part). Hmmm...Depends on timing! Good comment Mike!
What if Brandon Stark Revolts instead of going to the Mad King. I tend to think that if he married Cersei instead of Caitlyn, he'd win the war because Tywin is a genius with considerable force. Tywin would see an element of himself in the young Stark, just like what he did with the Reynes and Tarbecks without consulting his father. What would happen??
I think locals would have assassinated Daenerys at Essos since Barristan Selmy would have remained at King´s Landing and served under Robert Baratheon. Littlefinger betrayed Ned Stark and allowed Joffrey to become the king and Joffrey fired Ser Barristan Selmy who then travelled to join Daenerys.
What changes? Everything. Yeah, pretty much. Always loved that "King of the Ashes" quote about him because it is so true. Would love to see the rec some one made in the live stream: What if the tragedy of summerhall hadn't happened.
Love this one man! The Tyrells I think would've helped Robert rule with more fondness from the people and empathy from himself but better than the Lannisters.
unlikely as if littlefinger died at that time then he would not have been able to destory lyanna's letter(then telling brandon that he saw the prince kidnapped his sister) that told she was running away with the prince and why which means no rebellion as brandon would not have run half pissed of to kinglanding about his sister being kidnapped with his dad following behind him(the prince was already planning to remove his father from power at this point before he did something really stupid like was murder the stark's for almost no reason)
Jaybird Jetwings the reason he attacked Jamie was because he couldn't conceivably won a straight battle against tywin because tywin fielded many more men than the northerners
SilverSky Anime Then Bran won't wake up from his coma, Arya be captured then send back to harrenhall, robb would lose battles in the west without the help of greywind to help them to find their way to ambushing lannister's troops, jon snow wouldn't have saved lord Mormont, worst part of all they won't survive, their direwolfs gives them the abilities like the warg and helps them survive all the dangerous places?
What if ... 1. Ned told Cat the truth about Jon's parentage from the start? 2. What if Jamie married Princess Elia of Dorne? (per Joanna's wish. Joanna Lannister and Elia's mother were good friends and there was talk about possible marriages for their children Elia and Jamie or Oberyn and Cersei. Both were denied because Joanna died and Tywin was dead set on marrying Cersei off to Rhaegar)
Everyone who died in the show did because of Littlefinger. The only reason Ned even went south at all is because Littlefinger had Lysa kill Jon Arryn, making a vacancy for hand, AND Littlefinger told Lysa to blame the Lannisters. He also tells Cat that the dagger belonged to Tyrion. The entire war of 5 kings was his fault. Granted, Robert would have still died, but if Ned wasn't looking, he wouldn't have realized that Joffery, Marcylla and Tommen weren't Baratheons.
I think that Renly would probably try to take the Throne through war (but I don't know who would fight for him) or Renly would try to kill Stannis and become the heir considering the Salic-quise law in Westeroes. Or Renly just rule through the Tyrells and his would be nephew. Also maybe the Martells would have acted sooner and gotten the Tragaryens to invade.
I've read a theory Petyr started the rumor that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna (and of course started Robert's war) and from that moment he saw how powerful and meaningful words are. So he might have caused the death of thousands of people thanks to his big mouth.
umm You forgot Brandon Stark, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark (or rather Lyanna Targaryen as she truly was) I believe it was Baelish who spreads the lie that Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar and here's why - Brandon Stark rode to Kings Landing immediately after he heard the rumor and demanded Rhaegar face him which led to his imprisonment and later the death of him and Lord Rickard Stark. Which then led to Robert's rebellion. The major piece in this was Catelyn Tully. and here's my reasoning. Baelish knew of Brandon's impulsiveness. He probably knows Lyanna was Promised to Robert. He correctly deduces Brandon's course of action. With Ned still at the Veil there's no one to curb Brandon's impulsiveness. Baelish sought to remove Brandon from the equation and figured he would get his prize because Catelyn's suitor could now be dead. Lyanna, Rhaegar, the war were all a means to an end- just to get Catelyn as his. Where his plan failed was Aerys calling for the heads of Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon, which of course Joan Arryn wouldn't do thus the war and the forced marriage between Ned and Catelyn.
Would Jon still go to the wall? I mean, he went because of Benjen, and Benjen was only in Winterfell for the feast thing. So, if that feast never happened, would Jon still have gone to the wall?
I'm hearing ya! Well I'll flip this on you real quick: What do YOU think would've changed? :) I'm curious! I definitely think it could've helped Stannis lose his attitude a little bit about being the "forgotten" brother essentially.
oh no....i wasn't prepared for a follow up question hahawell i might have helped Stannis in the war of the five kings...and possibly even taken Renly out of the picture altogether. either way i have no idea :)
its also little fingers fault that Rickon died (as with the other starks simply, cause if little finger hadn't had lord arryn killed by lysa, the king wouldn't have come to winterfell, bran wouldn't have been pushed out of the window or had the other assassination attempt on him, the whole war wouldn't have started that meant people left winterfell and theon wouldn't have taken winterfell meaning the young starks had to flee)
I am 90% confident that, Roberts Rebellion, would not have happened the way it did. If not for Littlefinger having Lysa Tully tell Brandon Stark, that Lyanna had been kidnapped. Littlefinger was just about the only person at or near Riverrun, who could have spread the lie that Lyanna had been kidnapped. And he was just about the only one with reason to do so at that time. With the Mad King's madness and the Maesters working against the Targaryens, in the background, A Rebellion would have still happened. But not the way it did.
Considering he probably told Brandon that he saw Rhaegar abduct Lyanna at the Crossroads Inn it’s fair to assume he contributed to Robert’s Rebellion too!
Westeros would have been completely different if he had been killed. There would have been no Roberts rebellion, since Rhaegar told him to inform the Starks that he had taken Lyanna willingly to marry. instead, out of hate for the Starks, he told everyone that Rhaegar kidnapped her. that was when Peter discovered he could cause more turmoil with lies and deceit than with a sword. With the Starks knowing she went willingly, they would not have been so eager to start a war. Robert still would have challenged Rhaegar for Lyannas honor since they were promised to each other. I believe this season or beggining of next season, Bran will have a flash back to the Tourney at Harrenhal and of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and end with showing Peter lieing about what was said.
Real quick, kinda late to the game, but still, I always thought that Littlefinger found out about Lyanna and Rhaegar at Harrenhal, and when they were caught, they told him it was consensual, and Rhaegar likely gave him some gold to keep him silent, but instead, Petyr saw an opportunity to kill the Starks with one stone, thinking if Brandon were killed, he'd get Catelyn for himself, thus telling Brandon his sister was kidnapped and raped by the crown prince and taken to Kings Landing, why else would have Rickon and Brandon have gone to KL unless someone told them that's where Rhaegar was as a lie, knowing the King was mad?
My friend firstly I like the comment/idea below a what if video on if Ned accepts Renlys 100 men would be cool. But besides that I have a theory for you that I heard. I've heard that it is "POSSIBLE" that Little Finger is the one who led Brandon Stark to believe that Lyanna was kidnapped by Raeghar instead of the truth that she went with him willingly. Have you head about that theory? Oh and also WHAT IF Renly and Stanis stand united?
I know I’m way late but Robert’s rebellion might not have happened or at least all Targaryens wouldn’t have been killed if littlefinger was killed by Brandon because he was the 1 that saw rhaegar & lyana & said he kidnapped her not that she was willingly riding with him. At least that is what I read somewhere about littlefinger, he saw them & ran & spread that he took her
also robert's rebellion started as littlefinger destroyed lyanna's letter that told brandon that she and the prince when together willingly (littlefinger then told brandon that he saw the price kidnap lyanna which lead to the fatefully trip to kinglanding) and brandon and rickton stark would not have died........ also none of ned's children would be born(baring his adopted son Jon who likely would not need to be adopted) as catelyn would be with brandon also lysa would not have been dishonored by littlefinger so would likely be able to get a match closer to her own age so no sweet robin either along with elia and her children living and no childen born from the incest of jamie and cersei (no chance for it to happen as they are separated)
what are you people talking about? Littlefinger was not there at the time Lyanna kidnap he may be at Torment but the letter holding he was not in power in that time. He just a boy.
That's not so much what I meant. After the info given in seasons 7 and 8 there will be a whole bunch of new things each of the "what if" events would have affected. Would you want to go back and talk about those things?
TheBattProductions What if Rhaenys lived (Elia Martell's daughter) saved by jaime before being stabbed or Elia martell and her kids lived. They would be held as hostage, Ned would take them to winterfell to make sure dorne does not rebel. This would greatly effects doran martell's master-plan?
TheBattProductions What about Lysa will she be able to handle the loss of littlefinger ? if she does not handle the loss of littlefinger then she would jump off into the sea?
I've said this before and I'll say it again: How is it that killing Jon Arryn stops anyone else from noticing that Cersei's children are the only supposed Baratheon's with blonde hair? That was literally all that Ned discovered that led him to believe that they weren't Robert's children. Had everyone completely forgotten every other member of the Baratheon family's hair color until they looked it up in a book?
Wouldnt Joff Tommen and Myrcella die anyway? you said if Robert is told the truth, he kills them. and in this timeline he would have been told the truth by Jon and Stannis
Ryan Craig If your talking about that little bit from the trailer that is most likely littlefinger saying something that would make Jon react in such a way to further along his plan to turn sansa and Jon on each other. just because it will probably be Arya who brings down littlefinger. seeing as she has his dagger now
Hey I think I have a nice idea. What if Tyrion was not born a dwarf? I mean his whole personality and set of skills is based on the fact that he's a dwarf. If he was born "normal", he would have probably become a Jaime n°2... And this change the whole story doesn't it?
I don't think it was escalated by Petyr all that much. You could argue his effect on Brandon before he went to KL was Baelish' part in the Rebellion, but for me that'd probably be it *unless I'm forgetting something major*
If this happened then wouldn't that mean Jon wouldn't have too go too the wall? I mean in the show Ned only let him go cuz he couldn't stay alone at Winterfell and he couldn't go too Kings landing so wouldn't that mean he would have stayed with the starks? In that case things would have been worse cuz that'd mean no warning about the white walkers and the Wildlings would have probably killed the nights watch to escape them
What would have changed if Littlefinger had died in Riverrun? Literally everything haha I liked the long list of people he had killed. It made me laugh
I think that in this scenario, the Iron Bank would come a callin' sooner. I'm pretty sure Little Finger was keeping the realm afloat with some cleverly cooked books just so it could go broke only when he wanted it to. Also, you made me wonder if he was actually born with that porno stache lol
I don't think Jon would have gone to the wall, he left because Ned left if I remember correctly. If Ned stays at Winterfell I would assume Jon would also.
I thought you were going to go into the theory that it was Little finger who had told Brandon Stark that Lyanna had been abducted by Rhegar. If he had died Roberts Rebellion may not have happened.
@battleperductions Kevin you forgot the terory that littlefinger was the one that spread the roomer about Leanna and raygar also a lot of people think Robyn is littkefingeers son
There was one thing that I never found out and may not have been revealed. Did Aryn find out by the way of Littlefinger about Cersei or did he find out himself?
Because he did not spare him, Kat would have been so angry that she would have never married any Stark. The Tullys would have stayed out of the rebellion and the rebellion would have failed. Now if infection had set in why Little Finger was recovering from his injuries, the rest is history.
I like to see the scenario of Ned Accepting Renly’s 100 Swords. Ned would not like it, But Ned would want Stannis to be King anyway because he’s The True King of Westeros. So Ned Could’ve chose that instead of confronting Cerci and Joffrey. So that means: Cerci’s gonna die Joffrey’s gonna die Marcella and Tommen I don’t know if they be killed or not. And Also Littlefinger is going to die cause Stannis really hates Littlefinger and he is so not gonna let him live. Starks win and Baratheons win. 👑Stannis the Mannis is King! 👑
the wall wouldnt be the same if eddard was alive and the war pf the five kings didn't happen because jon would ask for aid at the wildling attack and more
so i got one what if littlefinger had won this fight i know its unlikely but unless big Bran was superman all it takes is one fuck up and littlefinger could've gutted him or maybe he pulled a red viper idk
If Mindinho had died, the Seven Kingdons would be united and Daenerys would have to try to conquer the Iron throne with a lot less support than she had in the TV show.
What i Ned accepts Renlys 100 men to take Joffrey away from the throne.
what if Ned flees from the capital when he had the chance
Then littlefinger would have to change his entire plan if ned left kings landing and ned would inform everyone about cersei's incest.
If ned accepted renly sellswords then we still have war with tywin lannister and stannis, it still be the war for the stag's throne.
Oooo00ooo I like these Ole!!!!
Excellent idea. I'll write it down!
@@TheBattProductions do them then
TheBattProductions
Why arent u doing it?
@@Brandonhayhew except the north would back stannis/renly probablu Stan but thats huge
You forgot one of the most important things Little Finger did. He beggared he realm. The Iron Bank conflict is largely his fault!
As much as LF loves chaos, there is need for some stability afterwards to enjoy his gains. He borrowed money to give Robert a false sense of security, and thus to ensure the peace (and his position) for a while longer
No it’s not, little finger was a genius with money and is the only reason the crown isn’t in more debt than it is. roberts ridiculous spending is the reason why they’re in the hole
What if Brandon Stark reaches the sword when the Mad King is killing Rickard Stark
fps carson that's a good one
fps carson If that did happened ned and Robert would still start the rebellion.
soyon manlai Ya but if Brandon Stark was alive then Ned wouldn't marry Catelyn
fps carson Then Eddard would still father lyanna's son and keep her secret, and Jon snow would have no reason to join the nights watch, Ned would try to raise his own Land and castle.
He would die trying to cut his way through the kingsguard to get to Arys.
What if Robb marries Margaery after Renly dies!!!
that would cool he would have the swords.
That would've saved SO MANY LIVES, gah.
Tyrell + Stark would've been terrific.
but since the tyrells hate Stannis, robb would have to betray Stannis AKA betray his father
@@leonpaelinck by the time Renly died Robb was already crowned King in the North, so he owed Stannis no allegiance, remember, this is based on the TV show not the books, I know in the books it would have been imposible unless Robb and Margaery where betrothed before the war, but once again that would have interfered with Mace's wish of marriying into the Iron Throne (that's the whole reason why they supported Renly in the first place)
What if Ned accepted Renly's offer to help him take the iron throne from cersei before he and loras fled King's Landing?
Also, if you're going to do more vs episodes, Bronn vs Locke
Excellent suggestion Kyle!
Written down! (for the VS, too!)
What if Stannis won the Battle at winterfell?
What if Tyrion had taken the black and Jamie gave up the kingsguard?
Daniel Stark thats amazing
I think Cersei would have arranged for Tyrion's death behind her father's back, probably with a catspaw of some sort like she planned for Jon Snow.
Ooooooo I love these ideas! Excellent, Daniel.
nice
Looks like one of your ideas if about to be made and posted tomorrow! :) +Daniel Stark
What if Tommen was born first instead of Joffrey?
I dig it! Writing it down, Maurklyn!
@@TheBattProductions Never did it though, did you... smh
There is another thing you might've addressed. LF was the wizard behind the Crown's financial situation. As the Master of Coin, he saw the Crown's revenues grow tenfold. Ofcourse, Robert's extravagant spending also increased the debt to the tune of 6 million dragons. But LF kept up the pretense that the financial situation was fine and that the realm was doing okay. He kept pretending that the money showed up from nowhere - when he was actually borrowing it.
Now, the biggest impact of his monetary policy is that the realm in now beggared and in huge debt. Would things have been better with someone else as Master of Coin or would they have been even worse?
Another thing - I recently read a theory that LF was on his way back to the Vale when he saw Rhaegar elope with Lyanna. The theory goes that he was the one who told Brandon about it - except, presenting it as a kidnapping instead of an elopement. If true, how do you think that might've changed without LF?
I am sorry the theory is dumb of LF seeing Rhaegar elope with Lyanna. He see the torment and maybe found out later about it with his climb to power. LF was nothing back then with duel with Brandon Stark.
I think the Littlefinger with the finances was certainly important, but I have to say that I can't call him a wizard (and I'll make my case briefly). I think Tyrion laid it out pretty clearly that Baelish was doing a terrible job because he just kept borrowing money, going deeper into debt. I'm sure this was done intentionally because he knows how the Iron Bank works and they'll want their $ back, so they'll find someone else (playing the long-game for him to take the throne). I do agree that the financial situation would've changed regardless, for sure!
I'll have to think on that theory a little bit more. IF he did do it for sure, I'm not sure how much it would've changed really...gah. Okay, lemme think sir!
Good post, Martin!
Just to clarify, the idea behind calling him a Wizard was that he was creating a grand illusion.
Martin Sanders Ah! That is different then my friend.
The way I heard that theory was that Lyanna Stark sent a message to Brandon (and the rest of the family, who were heading to Riverrun for Brandons wedding) about her eloping and marrying that Targaryien Prince. Which would have annoyed the Starks and infurated Robert but probably not start any wars. But it arrived a few days after the duel and Littlefinger intercepted it, while recuperating there from his injuries and badly wanting revenge. So Brandon would have known that there was no abduction, and probably lived, if it wasn't for Littlefinger. Wish I could remember where I heard this theory.
Suggestion:
in one of the "History and Lore" clips, Jamie reminisce about killing Aeris and give a very interesting insight too his own thoughts.
he tells us, that after he slayed the king his fathers knights enter the throne room and basicly ask him, who would be king now and Jamie was seriously contemplating to piss of Robert and Ned by announcing little Vaserys as King, with Tywin as Hand and Regent.
and that just blew my mind!
Soooo: What if, Vaserys takes over his fathers throne and is raised by Tywin?
What if Theon left winterfell with Yara?
Oooo00ooo I like that one!!!!
Excellent idea. I'll write it down!
nice
rrojas200 The Bolton would still sack winterfell and blame the whole thing on the Greyjoys.
Subscribed to your channel after hearing u on The Side Effect. I'll get your videos watched this week to get caught up!
I can think of a bunch more. The Hill Tribes people who tried to ambush Catlyn Stark's envoy, Rickon Stark, Ramsey Bolton, Talisa Stark, all the Freys (though this was before that episode, so I can forgive that), that Vale Knight who fought Bronn, Won Won, and worst of all, most of the dire wolves.
There's also a theory that LF was the one that told Brandon about Rhaegar "kidnapping" Lyanna so if that's true maybe even RR's would have been avoided
I think he would’ve heard about it and went down there anyway
What if Brienne of Tarth killed the man that saw her with Jaime Lannister, before he could tell the Bolton men?
The better question is, "what if Jaime and Brienne hooked up?" I think his hotness and her ugliness would balance out to form an average-looking blond kid.
Squeeky wheels!
Love it. Writing that one down, Average!
Gracias
I will list all the people that littlefinger has killed.
Dammit I have stuff to do today
What if Jaime was forced to marry Lysa Tully and stay at Casterly Rock instead of becoming a Kingsguard.
Haha. Oh yesssss this is a popular one! Love it.
I'll write it down!
Tywin is still Hand and royalist so Jaime would fight for the Targaryens if a rebellion breaks out which it might not
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 And since he holds Lysa hostage at Casterly Rock, the Tullys are unlikely to join Robert's Rebellion, meaning Ned and Catelyn wouldn't have been married and the scales would've been tipped quite a lot more to the loyalist side.
What if Catelyn Stark knew about Jon Snow? And on top of that, what if Catelyn Stark was nice, or even loved Jon?
If she knew the truth she would be alot kinder to him,she was just bitter cause she thought its neds bastard.....it would probably change whole storyline with nightwatch cause Jon would stay at winterfell and greyjoys..he might have be succesful at defending winterfell against Theon
@@666MIHI lmao defending winterfell against Theon. instead when Catelyn knew that he's Aegon Targaryen Robb would rally to put his nephew on the iron throne; they'd use knowledge of Howland Reed to strengthen his claim. with Aegon Dorne and Reach would rally to Aegon's and Robb's side. maybe marriage pact between Houses Martell & Targaryen and Tyrell & Stark would be forged.
"What if little finger died at riverrun" - that'd be freaking great tbh I could watch jon punch his jaws all day everyday 😂
yay, you made this! great video as usual Kevin!
Jon might have found out about his true parents a lot sooner. Cause Ned told him they would talk about it when Ned got back from King's Landing, and in this scenario of yours, Ned would never have gone to King's Landing in the first place. So when Jon went to the wall he would still be in contact with everyone in his family, and maybe when they did talk Ned might start to listen about the White Walker threat, which could lead to him rallying the North against it like super early.
I believe I asked this, but what if Lyanna Stark had loved Robert Baratheon as much as he loved her? In other words, what if Lyanna had not run away with Rhaegar Targaryen and instead, married Robert Baratheon? Here's what I think.
Great summary! What if he was the one to originally report the the "kidnapping" of Lyanna Stark? Had he died from his duel wound, perhaps Rhaegar could have made peace with the Starks and Robert's Rebellion would have failed? Maybe also Lysa Tulley would not have gone crazy, as she wouldn't have gotten pregnant by him and therefore wouldn't have been forced by her abusive father to have an abortion. Wow. this whole story could have been completely different!
Littlefinger was NOT power yet he had no position at that time.
Excellent post Rebecca! I love it. Have this stuff written down :)
Rebecca Vaughn Then we will never have a asoiaf series.
What if Ned accepted Renly's offer of 100 men, took his advice to attack Cersei and take Jeoffrey into custody immediately following Robert naming him protector of the realm?
What if the boar killed Renly instead of Robert
Probably answered in "What if Robert beats the Boar"
Ya but it also has the factor of what if Renly died. Maybe a better question would be "What if the boar killed all of them" (Renly, Robert, and Barristan)
fps carson don't forget Lancel Lannister
What if that boar went full predator and defeated all of them?
Thats a bad ass boar
Great video! I also think that the events of Robert's rebellion wouldn't happen if Littlefinger was dead. I'm convinced that Lyanna left something to warn her brother about her decision to leave. I mean she knew Brandon would react badly, the Stark children were pretty close to each other.
And it alla comes down to Catelyn again! hahaha
this videos (what if) makes me feel bad, cuz i want those things to happen but we know what actually happened and thats make me sad, but keep doing this, love your videos
What if Ned had accepted Renly' s 100 swords at the end of the first book and carried out the plan to take Joffery away from Cersei?
Thanks for another great What If video Kevin... What if Roose Bolton killed Ramsay instead of Ramsay killing him.
Also Ramsay Bolton, Areo Hotah, Old Nan, Lady, Syrio Forel
lol I love the nudity while censoring the eff bomb
What if Catelyn had actually married Brandon before he went to King''s Landing?
Ooo00ooo. I admit, I tend to believe that Ned would marry Catelyn anyway, but I'll have to think more!
Thanks, MsAsh!
You might well be right but Ned married her to ensure the Tullys sided with them in the war - if Catelyn's husband was killed they would probably have to seek revenge as well, Ned wouldn't have to do anything. Not to mention the possibility of Catelyn becoming pregnant with Brandon's child after the bedding ceremony. How does that affect Ned's claim to Winterfell?
MsAsh3070 honestly not that much Ned would take care of her and hers son or daughter
What if sir arthur dayne and gerald hightower beat ned stark and howland reed and company?
That's an excellent one that I'm considering more now! I'll have to do this one!
Thanks, Elk! :)
Jon would be Jon sand, the bastard of starfall and they have no support from anyone, jon snow is better living in winterfell with ned and his family, plus he gets master at arms and maester, stable rider both for education until his old enough to get a career.
TheBattProductions
This is just for fun:
What if all Gender Role Reversed?
Just for Shits and Giggles.
What if Robb Stark had killed Jaime Lannister instead of keeping him prisoner?
What if Bran told on Cersei and Jaime?
I shall write this down! Off the top of my head, I assume it'd end the same that it did (for the most part). Hmmm...Depends on timing!
Good comment Mike!
What if Brandon Stark Revolts instead of going to the Mad King. I tend to think that if he married Cersei instead of Caitlyn, he'd win the war because Tywin is a genius with considerable force. Tywin would see an element of himself in the young Stark, just like what he did with the Reynes and Tarbecks without consulting his father. What would happen??
I don't know if it's been done before but 'What if Theon kills Ramsay when he 'helps' him to escape the Dreadfort'?
I think locals would have assassinated Daenerys at Essos since Barristan Selmy would have remained at King´s Landing and served under Robert Baratheon. Littlefinger betrayed Ned Stark and allowed Joffrey to become the king and Joffrey fired Ser Barristan Selmy who then travelled to join Daenerys.
What if Rhaegar Targaryen was promised to Lyanna Stark
Instead of Robert Baratheon being promised to her
What changes? Everything. Yeah, pretty much. Always loved that "King of the Ashes" quote about him because it is so true.
Would love to see the rec some one made in the live stream: What if the tragedy of summerhall hadn't happened.
Absolutely everything! Totally agreed.
Oooo that's a good one. Changes stuff for Dunk and Aegon!
5:41 Littlefinger looks like a constipated squirrel.
Love this one man! The Tyrells I think would've helped Robert rule with more fondness from the people and empathy from himself but better than the Lannisters.
unlikely as if littlefinger died at that time then he would not have been able to destory lyanna's letter(then telling brandon that he saw the prince kidnapped his sister) that told she was running away with the prince and why which means no rebellion as brandon would not have run half pissed of to kinglanding about his sister being kidnapped with his dad following behind him(the prince was already planning to remove his father from power at this point before he did something really stupid like was murder the stark's for almost no reason)
What if robb attacked and killed tywin rather than defeat and capture Jamie?
Jaybird Jetwings the reason he attacked Jamie was because he couldn't conceivably won a straight battle against tywin because tywin fielded many more men than the northerners
what if Ramsay Bolton treated Sansa with respect and made her happy?
think as if she wouldn't have fled, never had jon fight them, etc.
Ramsay never met with Sansa. he was wed to fake Arya Stark, the Jeyne Poole
What if Ned didn't let the Stark children keep the dire wolves.
Bran would be dead
SilverSky Anime Then Bran won't wake up from his coma, Arya be captured then send back to harrenhall, robb would lose battles in the west without the help of greywind to help them to find their way to ambushing lannister's troops, jon snow wouldn't have saved lord Mormont, worst part of all they won't survive, their direwolfs gives them the abilities like the warg and helps them survive all the dangerous places?
Noel Alexiusson so would Jeor Mormont if I remember correctly... didn't his wolf save the former Lord Commander?
He sure did
EXCELLENT one. May be my next WHAT IF!
What if ...
1. Ned told Cat the truth about Jon's parentage from the start?
2. What if Jamie married Princess Elia of Dorne? (per Joanna's wish. Joanna Lannister and Elia's mother were good friends and there was talk about possible marriages for their children Elia and Jamie or Oberyn and Cersei. Both were denied because Joanna died and Tywin was dead set on marrying Cersei off to Rhaegar)
Dead on about Robert marrying Margaery. Renly had a scheme to join those two in book one. Also, "What if Varys had a penis?"
what if renly doesn't die
I have done this one actually! :)
Everyone who died in the show did because of Littlefinger. The only reason Ned even went south at all is because Littlefinger had Lysa kill Jon Arryn, making a vacancy for hand, AND Littlefinger told Lysa to blame the Lannisters. He also tells Cat that the dagger belonged to Tyrion. The entire war of 5 kings was his fault. Granted, Robert would have still died, but if Ned wasn't looking, he wouldn't have realized that Joffery, Marcylla and Tommen weren't Baratheons.
I miss the old Game of Thrones style intro :(
An other What if in the past of the serie:
What if King Aerys II. Targaryen dies in Duskendale.
peace and unity. King Rhaegar would have married Cersei
What if Jamie and Cersie hadn't seen Bran
I think that Renly would probably try to take the Throne through war (but I don't know who would fight for him) or Renly would try to kill Stannis and become the heir considering the Salic-quise law in Westeroes. Or Renly just rule through the Tyrells and his would be nephew. Also maybe the Martells would have acted sooner and gotten the Tragaryens to invade.
Wow! This is a good one. Lord Baelish is responsible for much of the suffering in the series. Can't wait to see what you say!......
I've read a theory Petyr started the rumor that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna (and of course started Robert's war) and from that moment he saw how powerful and meaningful words are. So he might have caused the death of thousands of people thanks to his big mouth.
umm You forgot Brandon Stark, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark (or rather Lyanna Targaryen as she truly was)
I believe it was Baelish who spreads the lie that Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar and here's why
- Brandon Stark rode to Kings Landing immediately after he heard the rumor and demanded Rhaegar face him which led to his imprisonment and later the death of him and Lord Rickard Stark. Which then led to Robert's rebellion.
The major piece in this was Catelyn Tully. and here's my reasoning.
Baelish knew of Brandon's impulsiveness. He probably knows Lyanna was Promised to Robert. He correctly deduces Brandon's course of action. With Ned still at the Veil there's no one to curb Brandon's impulsiveness. Baelish sought to remove Brandon from the equation and figured he would get his prize because Catelyn's suitor could now be dead. Lyanna, Rhaegar, the war were all a means to an end- just to get Catelyn as his. Where his plan failed was Aerys calling for the heads of Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon, which of course Joan Arryn wouldn't do thus the war and the forced marriage between Ned and Catelyn.
Would Jon still go to the wall? I mean, he went because of Benjen, and Benjen was only in Winterfell for the feast thing. So, if that feast never happened, would Jon still have gone to the wall?
What if joffery killed Arya at the river bank instead of Arya being saved by her direwolf?
Oh yay there IS one of this scenario! Joy of all joys.
What if...just hear me out....what it Robert gives Storms End to Stannis.
I'm hearing ya!
Well I'll flip this on you real quick: What do YOU think would've changed? :)
I'm curious! I definitely think it could've helped Stannis lose his attitude a little bit about being the "forgotten" brother essentially.
oh no....i wasn't prepared for a follow up question hahawell i might have helped Stannis in the war of the five kings...and possibly even taken Renly out of the picture altogether. either way i have no idea :)
Great topic.
its also little fingers fault that Rickon died (as with the other starks simply, cause if little finger hadn't had lord arryn killed by lysa, the king wouldn't have come to winterfell, bran wouldn't have been pushed out of the window or had the other assassination attempt on him, the whole war wouldn't have started that meant people left winterfell and theon wouldn't have taken winterfell meaning the young starks had to flee)
I am 90% confident that, Roberts Rebellion, would not have happened the way it did. If not for Littlefinger having Lysa Tully tell Brandon Stark, that Lyanna had been kidnapped.
Littlefinger was just about the only person at or near Riverrun, who could have spread the lie that Lyanna had been kidnapped. And he was just about the only one with reason to do so at that time.
With the Mad King's madness and the Maesters working against the Targaryens, in the background, A Rebellion would have still happened. But not the way it did.
Considering he probably told Brandon that he saw Rhaegar abduct Lyanna at the Crossroads Inn it’s fair to assume he contributed to Robert’s Rebellion too!
what if the targareyen master at the wall stayed and became the king
Westeros would have been completely different if he had been killed. There would have been no Roberts rebellion, since Rhaegar told him to inform the Starks that he had taken Lyanna willingly to marry. instead, out of hate for the Starks, he told everyone that Rhaegar kidnapped her. that was when Peter discovered he could cause more turmoil with lies and deceit than with a sword.
With the Starks knowing she went willingly, they would not have been so eager to start a war. Robert still would have challenged Rhaegar for Lyannas honor since they were promised to each other.
I believe this season or beggining of next season, Bran will have a flash back to the Tourney at Harrenhal and of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and end with showing Peter lieing about what was said.
Real quick, kinda late to the game, but still, I always thought that Littlefinger found out about Lyanna and Rhaegar at Harrenhal, and when they were caught, they told him it was consensual, and Rhaegar likely gave him some gold to keep him silent, but instead, Petyr saw an opportunity to kill the Starks with one stone, thinking if Brandon were killed, he'd get Catelyn for himself, thus telling Brandon his sister was kidnapped and raped by the crown prince and taken to Kings Landing, why else would have Rickon and Brandon have gone to KL unless someone told them that's where Rhaegar was as a lie, knowing the King was mad?
My friend firstly I like the comment/idea below a what if video on if Ned accepts Renlys 100 men would be cool. But besides that I have a theory for you that I heard. I've heard that it is "POSSIBLE" that Little Finger is the one who led Brandon Stark to believe that Lyanna was kidnapped by Raeghar instead of the truth that she went with him willingly. Have you head about that theory? Oh and also WHAT IF Renly and Stanis stand united?
I hit like before the video even starts hehe.
it's a little know fact that Rhaegar and Lyanna left a not in Riverrun about them and Littlefinger destroy it and told Brandon she was kidnapped
I know I’m way late but Robert’s rebellion might not have happened or at least all Targaryens wouldn’t have been killed if littlefinger was killed by Brandon because he was the 1 that saw rhaegar & lyana & said he kidnapped her not that she was willingly riding with him. At least that is what I read somewhere about littlefinger, he saw them & ran & spread that he took her
Then the entire series wouldn't happen except the White Walkers part.
also robert's rebellion started as littlefinger destroyed lyanna's letter that told brandon that she and the prince when together willingly (littlefinger then told brandon that he saw the price kidnap lyanna which lead to the fatefully trip to kinglanding) and brandon and rickton stark would not have died........ also none of ned's children would be born(baring his adopted son Jon who likely would not need to be adopted) as catelyn would be with brandon also lysa would not have been dishonored by littlefinger so would likely be able to get a match closer to her own age so no sweet robin either along with elia and her children living and no childen born from the incest of jamie and cersei (no chance for it to happen as they are separated)
what are you people talking about? Littlefinger was not there at the time Lyanna kidnap he may be at Torment but the letter holding he was not in power in that time. He just a boy.
Would you ever think about going back to some of these scenarios and adding more commentary after seasons 7 and/or 8?
Daniel Stark absolutely. There's one or two scenarios where I missed a detail or two that should be modified! :)
That's not so much what I meant. After the info given in seasons 7 and 8 there will be a whole bunch of new things each of the "what if" events would have affected. Would you want to go back and talk about those things?
TheBattProductions What if Rhaenys lived (Elia Martell's daughter) saved by jaime before being stabbed or Elia martell and her kids lived. They would be held as hostage, Ned would take them to winterfell to make sure dorne does not rebel. This would greatly effects doran martell's master-plan?
TheBattProductions What about Lysa will she be able to handle the loss of littlefinger ? if she does not handle the loss of littlefinger then she would jump off into the sea?
what if loras got killed by the mountain during the hands tourney in season 1
Raymond Li The Tyrells of the reach would never want to ally with the lannister.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: How is it that killing Jon Arryn stops anyone else from noticing that Cersei's children are the only supposed Baratheon's with blonde hair? That was literally all that Ned discovered that led him to believe that they weren't Robert's children. Had everyone completely forgotten every other member of the Baratheon family's hair color until they looked it up in a book?
Wouldnt Joff Tommen and Myrcella die anyway? you said if Robert is told the truth, he kills them. and in this timeline he would have been told the truth by Jon and Stannis
Basically if there was no little finger they’d be no Game of Thrones
How Dare You! My Mr. Bae will never die!!!!
Sure you missed 1 or 2? Nice one!
Johns about to put littlefinger back into his place so it's all good lol
Ryan Craig If your talking about that little bit from the trailer that is most likely littlefinger saying something that would make Jon react in such a way to further along his plan to turn sansa and Jon on each other. just because it will probably be Arya who brings down littlefinger. seeing as she has his dagger now
Hey I think I have a nice idea. What if Tyrion was not born a dwarf? I mean his whole personality and set of skills is based on the fact that he's a dwarf. If he was born "normal", he would have probably become a Jaime n°2... And this change the whole story doesn't it?
Fairly sure Roberts Rebellion was at least escalated by Littlefinger, so you could even speculate if that would have gone down the same way
I don't think it was escalated by Petyr all that much. You could argue his effect on Brandon before he went to KL was Baelish' part in the Rebellion, but for me that'd probably be it *unless I'm forgetting something major*
If this happened then wouldn't that mean Jon wouldn't have too go too the wall? I mean in the show Ned only let him go cuz he couldn't stay alone at Winterfell and he couldn't go too Kings landing so wouldn't that mean he would have stayed with the starks? In that case things would have been worse cuz that'd mean no warning about the white walkers and the Wildlings would have probably killed the nights watch to escape them
What would have changed if Littlefinger had died in Riverrun?
Literally everything haha I liked the long list of people he had killed. It made me laugh
I think that in this scenario, the Iron Bank would come a callin' sooner. I'm pretty sure Little Finger was keeping the realm afloat with some cleverly cooked books just so it could go broke only when he wanted it to. Also, you made me wonder if he was actually born with that porno stache lol
I don't think Jon would have gone to the wall, he left because Ned left if I remember correctly. If Ned stays at Winterfell I would assume Jon would also.
I thought you were going to go into the theory that it was Little finger who had told Brandon Stark that Lyanna had been abducted by Rhegar. If he had died Roberts Rebellion may not have happened.
@battleperductions Kevin you forgot the terory that littlefinger was the one that spread the roomer about Leanna and raygar also a lot of people think Robyn is littkefingeers son
What if Arya and Sansa were reunited at the Eyrie? (HBO)
There was one thing that I never found out and may not have been revealed. Did Aryn find out by the way of Littlefinger about Cersei or did he find out himself?
The butterfly effect
You should make a what if myrcella Baratheon doesn't die
Because he did not spare him, Kat would have been so angry that she would have never married any Stark. The Tullys would have stayed out of the rebellion and the rebellion would have failed. Now if infection had set in why Little Finger was recovering from his injuries, the rest is history.
I like to see the scenario of Ned Accepting Renly’s 100 Swords. Ned would not like it, But Ned would want Stannis to be King anyway because he’s The True King of Westeros.
So Ned Could’ve chose that instead of confronting Cerci and Joffrey.
So that means:
Cerci’s gonna die
Joffrey’s gonna die
Marcella and Tommen I don’t know if they be killed or not.
And Also Littlefinger is going to die cause Stannis really hates Littlefinger and he is so not gonna let him live.
Starks win and Baratheons win.
👑Stannis the Mannis is King! 👑
I think that's a pretty decent outcome, honestly....
the wall wouldnt be the same if eddard was alive and the war pf the five kings didn't happen because jon would ask for aid at the wildling attack and more
so i got one what if littlefinger had won this fight i know its unlikely but unless big Bran was superman all it takes is one fuck up and littlefinger could've gutted him or maybe he pulled a red viper idk
What if Sansa and Arya don't go to King's Landing with Ned?
the theory is Littlefinger lied about Lyanna getting kidnapped Rhaegar so made Robert Rebellion happen.
If Mindinho had died, the Seven Kingdons would be united and Daenerys would have to try to conquer the Iron throne with a lot less support than she had in the TV show.
It is the wild wolf Brandon Stark.