It's a good death. Jon would of been raised better. I think Westeros would be terrified of the best knight raising a targerian king. "You want me to fight Ser author dayne in battle. Fucking poison him now."
Bran could be a product of Benjen and Cat still. I was just trying to cover all scenarios, but I suppose I should have also said Bran as we know him wouldn't be there.
TheBattProductions If Ned isn't this child's father how can we call him Bran? Half his genetic code would be different. Yes he'd be Catelyn's Stark child but he wouldn't simply be Bran with a different father, that's not how child conception works
So it's either... A) Be raised by Ned and have all that heroic honor that makes women cream their pants. B) Be raised by Dayne and become absolutely GODLIKE with a sword.
Tywin would be super pissed and cersei would never be wed. Jon arryn encouraged robert to wed the lannister for a major support like financial and powerful alliances. The lannister are very rich and powerful, anyone would love to have them as allies.
What if Joanna Lannister didn't die giving birth to Tyrion Mainly Tywin might have given him more of a place in the Lannister family and Tyrion might not have killed Tywin. Cersei and Tyrion would be on better terms, and he probably wouldn't have joined Dany
Agree 💯% He’d *still* be an amazing warrior, but what I *don’t* think he’d have, is _the bitterness_ that Jon did originally- Jon always felt a bit inadequate next to Robb, growing up- as well as having a warm-hearted, affectionate nurse, instead of Catelyn’s coldness- & then there’s the other sibling/ cousin relationships - without all that, you have to wonder how his personality would form... I also wonder, would Arthur tell him about his parents, without naming names- or what? Ned gave Jon no details about his mother, but Jon **did** grow up with the assumption of Ned as his dad, & had his example to learn from- would Arthur just be his guardian, or would he let Jon think he was his dad, like Ned did?
@@Goetterkomplex_ Yeah- I don’t agree with theBatt that it’d be kept from him, until his mid-teens- telling him he can’t go round saying who he is, is one thing- not telling him at all, is another...
TheBattProductions it would be a boy named Brandon stark but it wouldn't be the bran stark we know. With Ned dead before any other kids but robb being conceived you can't can't really say that Sansa arya bran or rickon would exist. Benjen is not Ned. His kids can't expected to be the same characters. Killing Ned at the tower eliminated all the young starks from the story. With other characters to fill their spots if needed but they would drastically different and you can't plug them in for the missing stark kids.
Sure it could. Benjen has the exact same genetics as Ned and believed in the same things Ned did as a Stark. Only difference we're aware of is that Ned was quieter.
No no no!!! So much more changes!!! Thing about it: Ned Stark dies at that moment, only Robb was born. Not Sansa, not bran, not rikkon, not Arya. I mean, rikkon wasn't the most important character, but Sansa Brandon and Arya's storylines were so important and they wouldn't have happened.
What if Bran woke up like two days after falling and had perfect memory. So basically everyone important was still there. However there can be two plots: 1. People believe Bran 2. They don't It's pretty early on, therefore it will change lots of stuff
That's a pretty interesting "what if" scenario. One would presume that Catelyn and Ned are going to believe him. If King Robert believes it, then all hell is liable to break loose in Winterfell, with Ned probably desperately trying to prevent lives from being lost. And then there's what happens after Tywin gets word of whatever happens in Winterfell, as there's pretty much no one in King's Landing save Renley and Loras and whatever small band of Baratheon and Tyrell retainers they have on hand to oppose Tywin from marching on in should he decide to do so.
Stannis is at Dragonstone with the most ships, and the Tully's at Riverrun to stop Tywin marching to King's Landing. Basically since Bran woke up after Catelyn makes it to the capital, the north would send word of what Bran saw to Ned or Catelyn. Lannisters get dethroned. Stannis is king
James Hocking Bad things happen for team Lannister. Robert believes the young child, who has no reason to lie, and who confirms rumors that have circled for years. Jamie dies fighting the Kingsgaurd when they come to arrest him. Cersei is summarily beheaded. Tywin is devastated, as his family was everything for him. But he has no play. Robert has all 6 of the other Kingdoms with him. An attack against Robert would be suicide. Daenarys never comes to Westeros, as the spider creature that comes out of the ball kills her. Robert marries Sansa or Margery Tyrell and gets much better sex than he had been with icy Cersei or the paid women he was playing with. Joffrey and Tommen are semt to live and be raised by Tywin. They all live happily until the Night King comes and kills them all.
@@paraguaymike5159 he still wouldn’t really be happy either Sansa or Margaery. Remember the reason why Cersei isn’t willing to be with him is because he called her Lyanna on their wedding night. I imagine Sansa would feel a similar level of discontent if she was to marry Robert whilst Margaery may be better off (because she supposedly resembles Lyanna according to Renly, but not Ned) and not be that affected by it. Robert would be miserably married to anyone who wasn’t Lyanna.
Bran could convince his parents that he is telling the truth by revealing things that they only knew like how Arthur Dayne died, Jon's real heritage or Catelyn's unfulfilled promise to the Gods (and implying that what happened to him was a punishment)
Most legitimised bastards’ lives didn’t change- the majority of Aegon IV’s bastards’ lives just went on as they had - the only reason the Blackfyre Rebellions happened was because two particular bastards had highborn mothers- so, no- it wouldn’t be ‘War of the 21 Kings/ Queens’- unless there’s a Perkin Warbeck situation, & someone with power is able to prop them up... Otherwise, there’s only one/ two bastards of Robert that matter; Edric Storm’s mother was a Florent- I don’t remember if Mya had a good family, I think she was in service to the Waynwoods- maybe I’m misremembering... In either case, with boys being ahead of girls, regardless of age- Edric is **the only legitimised bastard who matters** , & Renly/ Stannis (depending on the timeline) has custody of him...
I don't know if I'd ever be able to do this one truthfully. I want to, but man would it be hard to figure out what would change. I think Tywin hated him for different reasons than being a small man. Maybe one day I shall try it!
thank you for the answers! I agree Tywin would still be stern but I doubt he would want him dead, like he did now. So I think he wouldn't have let the trial go that way, since he knew Tyrion was innocent
What if Cersei had the brains to keep Margaery alive for Tommen's sake? Would things in season 7 gone down the same or would Olenna make different moves?
TheBattProductions all of your what if is purely tv show version. The book's version is more complex, they have so many subplots and characters, and choices?
What if Ramsey wins Battle of the bastards? What if Euron doesn't intercept the ships from Dorne? What if Jon sends Ser Alliser to eastwatch and doesn't get betrayed?
WOW! This is your best "What if" of all! Ned Stark dying at the Tower of Joy would have set into motion a whole different set of scenarios. Except from Rob and Jon, who knows if any of the other Stark children would have been born or how different their lives would have been. No one would have really known about the treat beyond the Wall. It's amazing how one death at a certain time can affect the whole outcome, thanks.
8:35 Bran was never born in this senario. Robb is the only Stark kid from the show that would actually be born because...well...Ned can't fuck Cat from the grave.
"That could potentially affect him becoming the three eyes raven in the future" yes, it would affect it greatly SINCE HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BORN in this scenario
Well in that scenario the Mad King burns down King's Landing and dies in the flames convinced that he would be reborn as a Dragon. Rhaegar would survive and will allow the combatants their lives. Since Rhaegar's first wife is in King's Landing she would still die horribly. The Child in Dorne will be brought to Dragonstone where he would grow up being the Prince that is promised. Tywin as hand of the king would urge Rhaegar to remarry. I think King Rhaegar would not. Rhaegar's Mother would raise Aegon along with Viserys and Dany at Dragonstone. Aegon is proclaimed the Heir to the Kingdom. Rhaegar would implement the Lord's Council as a legislature of such. Perhaps they rebuild King's Landings or not.
How would Rhaegar live? Not even Barristan could of saved him from Robert's fury. Robert would kill him and like Barristan, Jaime would of been recovering from battle wounds and join the Kings guard under Robert. Had Jaime been at the Tower of Joy is really a pickle, I don't know about that one, perhaps he would kill Ned? Maybe hearing the events of King's Landing he betrays his brothers to help the Lannisters (more likely) and therefore Ned. The Mad King would of burnt down King's Landing and many Lannisters would've died. Maester Pycelle and Varys and the Mountain would all burn. Tywin I don't think would have died and he would be ruler of the ashes. Robert takes King's Landing, perhaps Storm's End becomes the capital? Rebuild Kings Landing? Most interesting thing is that if Jaime was at Tower of Joy, what he would do knowing about Jon's true heritage.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' Let's explain. There was only two people in the Kings guard that could of protected Rhaegar Ser Barristan Selmy and Jamie Lannister. Jamie loved Rhaegar. He was the best swordsman other than Arthur Dayne who is at the Tower of Joy. If Jamie was at Rhaegar's Side it would have been Him who Robert fought Not Rhaegar alone. So both Jamie even if Injured would have delayed Robert enough for a Rhaegar victory. Robert would have had to concede.
Theresa Steward I dunno Robert crushed Rhaegar at the Trident without sustaining any battle stopping wounds. He might be able to take Jaime, who you theorize *might* be there in time, which I doubt.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' if Jaime was fighting along side rhaegar, Tywin would of definitely send his forces to support rhaegar. Definitely doesn’t want Jaime to die
I think in all honesty, Jon would ve been a lot more battle-tested and hardened in this version. Aside from being presumably trained since birth by the best swordsman at the time, they're also living far away from home and familiar comforts that Westerosi nobles would be accustomed to, plus on a hostile continent with a lot more frequent wars and unfamiliar peoples who don't give seven hells about what your birthright and status were from across the sea. All in all, unless they managed to secure a patronage with Willem Darry or Illyrio Mopatis in Braavos, Jon would most likely have grown up in a Sellsword company or as a two-man nomad team with Dayne, constantly on the lookout for bandtis, Dothraki raiders, hired assassins or anyone else who would try to attack them, as well as looking for employers who are in need of hired swords. Pretty much living a life since childhood constantly in danger of being killed or on the move and having plenty of first hand combat experience would've made Jon a much more battle-hardened and resourceful fighter + strategist; a lot more so than the normal timeline.
For the most part I agree with you. But if anyone had Arthur Dayne "The Sword of The Morning" teaching them in combat from childhood. Would be a definite force to be reckoned with.
A few I was always curious about were always to do with Arya because her storyline could've changed in so many places, like what if the Lannisters never attacked the nights watch caravan she was with, or what if she hadn't run from the brotherhood without banners. Idk those are probably small but ones I think about, like how they would've changed the overall story with her.
The Harpys would die, Ser Barristan would be alive because he would have Ser Arthur Dayne, Greyworm and possibly a Ser Arthur Dayne trained Jon Snow. Dany wouldn't be as fierce in S7 with Ser Barristan Selmy, Tyrion Lannister, Ser Arthur Dayne, Greyworm, Ser Jorah Mormont, etc.
If Ser Arthur would have kill Ned than surely Jon Snow would be raise by Ser Arthur Dayne 'Sword of Moring and would be even more of a badass swordsman Aegon Targaryen in Westeros period, that might rides dragons, since Ragnar & Ser Arthur are best friends, right now Jon is good swordman thanks to Night Watch, and Uncle Ned Stark who raise Jon as his bast**d Son, but if Jon was raise by Ser Arthur Dayne, He wouldn't never call a bast**d Son, It would be totally be a different story, and he would be the one as the ruler on thorne as Prince Aegon Targaryen, and live at Dragonstone as Kingsdom as well Tower of Joy where he was born at, where Ser Arthur Dayne try to protects, thanks to Pince Ragnar Targaryen who gave Ser Arthur Dayne orders to stay there to protect the Tower Of Joy where Lyanna Stark gave birth to baby boy Prince Aegon Targaryen aka Jon Snow. And, hell we might not sees dead wrights zombies in North, and Jon would never be raise in North but In South hot Westeros by Ser Arthur Dayne.
A couple of thoughts here: Ser Arthur Dayne was a Kingsguard knight. Why would he not have gone directly to join the rest of the Targaryens in Braavos? Jon could have grown up with Viserys and Danerys, and possibly Jon Con and Aegon would join them. With a teacher like Arthur Dayne, Jon would be one awesome swordsman. With Arthur Dayne there, and the money he has on his own, Viserys and Dany would never have had to live on their own when Ser Williem died.
I could see Dayne joining the Golden Company. There he would rise through the ranks unbelievably quickly. In that case Aegon would start to join their battles once Arthur considers him proficient enough to hold his own. If anything these battles would give him better experience than fighting ferocious but untrained wildlings. Show Jon in particular clearly has a natural talent with the sword, of it was Dayne training him and not Cassell then he would be crazy skilled. Dayne is a pretty honourable guy too, I don't think Jon would be much less honourable by growing up with him. Eventually him and Danaerys would hook up similar to current events only she would have three dragons (He would end up riding Rhaegal) the unsullied, the dothraki and he would have tje golden company at his back. Westeros would stand no chance.
If you follow real life precedent Benjen would rule as a Regent, as the Lord Robb would be classified a minor, until Robb came of age and then he would take over.
And, his name wouldn't be call Jon Snow but Prince Aegon Targaryen which what it said on G.O.T on Jon birth certificate after his real parents name him before he was born, but in wound stomach of pregnant Lyanna Stark.
If Stannis was the Hand of the King, Robert might've still been alive, since Stannis wouldn't have given Cersei a warning and time to plan her next move. She would've been arrested and most likely executed before she would be able to conspire with Lancel to get Robert drunk and killed on the hunt.
i think if Arthur Dayne had lived, he would have made his intent make Jon the king. he knew that he was a legitimate Targaryen, and rightful heir to the 7 kingdoms. Jons father was his closest friend. would have protected him at all costs, but very few would challenge him. the war would have never been over, till Arthur was killed.
Do you think Arthur would have joined the golden company? If so wouldn't Jon be pretty dang battle tested being raised with sellswords and all. Also wouldn't Jon connington probably recognize Arthur?
Why would Arthur dayne go to essos? Claiming baby Jon is his sisters child is so easy. Ned loved ashara everyone knows that. No one is gonna be looking for Jon having ashara raise him as her own would be fine. The daynes look valyrian if Jon end up looking too targaryen. But Jon look exactly like Ned in the books. Cat hates Jon more in the books because he looks more like Ned than any of her children. A boy the spitting image of Ned stark born to the woman he actually had feelings for is not going to raise eyebrows. They can make up a story to cover the timeline disconnect no one is going to call bullshit on that. Jon is safer in starfall as Ned Stark's bastard than in essos with Arthur dayne. You only wrote that so you can have dayne and selmy meet up again and maybe fight. I know you did Kevin I know that's why you did it.
Javo Dayne would be murdered by Robert because he killed Ned, and so Ashara would have killed herself as she did, which means that Jon would either be killed by Robert or kept by Robert as a son, until Cersei would probably have him murdered or something
Well, with Aenys, it’s questionable- I mean, his reign was far less peaceful than his father’s- & he fell ill & died rather rapidly (part of that could be chalked up to Visenya doing whatever she had to, to bring Maegor to power)...
I think this is impossible. I believe Ser Arthur was specifically tasked with letting Ned live by Rhaegar Targaryen. In the show Ser Arthur cut Ned's friends up like carving a cake, then when fighting Ned alone he had multiple chances of killing him but didnt.
Not the same guy, true. I can see Jon being still fairly humble and maybe hardened from, maybe, fighting off Varys’s assassins himself and then fighting alongside Dany, who isn’t looking for a bed buddy due to losing her husband and son. He’ll be fighting alongside Jorah, Arthur Dayne, Barristan, the Unsullied, and the assorted sellswords.
So Aegon Sand(Jon Snow) becomes the new "Sword of the Morning" and wielder of "Dawn" after being trained by Arthur Dayne? Sounds about right to me and I'm sure "Dawn" would help end the new "Long Night"
You have such a great imagination. Thank you for sharing it with us. Also, thanks for always having such a pleasant attitude; it's much appreciated. Have a fantastic week! 🌸
I think in the Baratheon-Lannister war these would happen: - The Reach would side with the Westerlands with the promise of a marriage between Joff and Marg. - Littlefinger would side with the rebels because he cannot manipulate Stannis. - The Vale (which was under the influence of Littlefinger) would also join the rebels with a marriage alliance between Robyn and Myrcella. - The Iron Islands would be paid to join the rebels too, as well as the two richest kingdoms hiring mercenaries from Essos to build their numbers (perhaps the golden company?). - Dorne is unsure because they were carefully plotting the defeat of the Lannisters, not waiting for all our war (as we saw in them not joining Renly in the WOTFK). As a result they would be pretty equal and I'd say the throne would fall leaving the North and Riverlands alone. Since they have little stake in the war beyond duty I'd say a peace would come, perhaps through a marriage of Tommen or Lorras to a daughter of Benjen.
I'm actually not sure Renly would join Stannis. Renly actually hated the idea of Stannis being king as seen when he trys to get ned to take down Cersei in the night to stop her from taking power.
Hhmmm I mentioned this idea in my video to try to win the valyrian sword and now it's a video. But I have been giving this a lot of thought. And I see somethings things going differently. First to point it out. In the north, Robb would be lord and benjen would be reagent. Meaning benjen runs things till Robb is ready. Benjen has no claim unless Robb dies. Also there would be no Sansa arya bran or rickon. Back in dorne though I don't see Arthur dayne leaving for essos. They have a ready made excuse ashara had a baby that was still born not to long before then. Just replace the dead baby with Jon. Tell everyone this baby is Eddard Sand, a bastard love child between the late Ned Stark and ashara dayne. Fleeing to essos draws attention staying and hiding in plain sight is better and lucky for everyone Jon grows up to look very much like Ned so no one who knew Ned would doubt the claim. Certainly not his grief stricken best friend. Robert would kill any targaryen this is true but a baby he believes is the blood of his brother he might even squire Jon himself. Believe Arthur dayne retires from the kings guard not wanting to serve Robert or be part of any more Wars. Arthur was more a tournament knight than a warrior. Barristan was the warrior knight. Arthur raises "Ned" to be a good fighter perhaps even the next sword of the morning. When Robb is made lord I think Robert takes it upon himself to in one go legitimize "ned", knight him and name him to the kings guard. A pet knight a reminder of his beloved friend. I think stannis is the one to take theon as a ward. Giving him tough love and teaching him to be a good seaman too. Bringing theon closer to his ironborn roots. I think Robb's first big test as lord of winterfell is the wilding invasion. I don't think Jon arryn dies at least not how he dies the show. Littlefinger has him killed to start the Lannister stark war. With out Ned there there is no war to start. But i do think the lannisters have to make a big move in order to gain power. Because with stannis more involved it's harder to swoop in and take control the moment Robert is on his deathbed. I feel like the the war would be a southern war with the Lannisters and baratheons fighting and making the kingdoms choose. This is when varys finally has something go his way and the kingdom is in chaos just in time for the dothraki to make landfall in westeros with a dragon queen leading them. In the wake of Roberts death I feel like Ned breaks his oath and goes to find himself. That is till Robb falls in the north. And a master plan is set in motion. The dornish have known who Ned sand is the entire time and they prepare. They first send Ned north with troops to save the north from the wildings. On the way gaining support from north friendly houses. The king legitimized Ned long ago. The north has fallen. But Ned stark still has a son that lives. So Jon rides north beats the wildlings back beyond the wall. Dany is tearing the kingdom apart with her horselords and dragons. The golden company make their appearance they bring aegon with them he appears to be the savior of the realm. Till in winterfell the new lord Eddard Stark is met by members of house Martel and told who he really is. They present him with a relic many though was lost forever. Aegon's iron crown. Ned raises the banners calls in the alliances of the tullys and Arryns the dornish sail north to meet him and Eddard meet aegon at the twins for one final battle for the realm. Ned leading the charge wearing aegon's crown and wielding dawn.
This would piss off everyone, the conquenese would be very dangerous. The North, riverland, vale, stormland would be driven to another civil war, they all likely invade the north, nobody would want to put or support another targaryen, they are a lost cause, they just lost everything. Rheagar just pissed off the martell and the baratheon. The mad king killed Ned's father and brother, other northern lord's sons. The northmen some of them would backstabb ned and the stark family's name would be ruined forever.
Great video as ever, I love the WHAT IFs. I appreciate how you ended it before delving too deep, because that wasn't what the video was about (what happens after with the Others/White Walkers, etc). I'm curious, though, how you think it might happen after? To me, I'd say that if it went along what you said, we'd still see dragons, perhaps even Jon and Dany hitting the shore ready to invade, but if they (well, Dany, really, probably) a kingdom ralllying their banners toward a greater threat, she might start to wonder, well, how can I help? She's known for that, if Slaver's Bay is any evidence. Sure, it's on a much larger and emotional scale, but helping instead of invading, necessarily, has always brought her greater fortune. One can poke at that last point as you will, what with burning slavers and putting living men on spikes as penance and symbol, but it's not the same sort of 'world', here. She knows that. Dayne knows that. Presumably Jon knows that just as much as Dany, as they both only know from teachings. I feel like they'd still help. Maybe prophecies still get fulfilled (the ones that are real, anyway), maybe House Baratheon still gets wiped out in terms of heirs, but at this point Robert's claim, which is by conquest but ALSO by citing his lineage to Aegon V (via Princess Rhaelle and Ormund Baratheon), is now void. Yes, that Aemon V, by nickname of Egg, brother of Aemon Targaryen at the Wall. There are other Targaryens. Sure. We're not sure who the book Aegon is if the shows are book-canon (and if he's legit) to any degree (or if they just nix it like a lot of other characters that don't REALLY matter), but there's one, but we're not going over all that. We're talking what happens in this WHAT IF. Overall, I think it plays out a lot more peacefully, with Stannis on the throne with no War of Five Kings.
Addendum: If Young Griff is Aegon in this scenario, well, that's a war that causes similar complications that the show ...well, shows. Albeit much earlier. There's certainly some contention there, as well as much more food for thought.
Imagine that Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan the Bold together and helping Jon and Dany conquer the seven Kingdoms. What a fighting duo that would be.
This hypothesizing over Ned dying at the Tower of Joy and the position it puts Benjen in does raise an interesting point of its own though: why does Benjen join the Nights Watch at all? As far as I can tell, he does so before Bran is born. That means the Stark line is down to just Ned, the boy Robb and the purported bastard Jon. They have no Stark first cousins at all - male or female - though they might have some male line Stark second and third cousins. So Benjen actually ought to be marrying and producing some alternate Stark heirs of his own. My guess is that Benjen actually knows about Jon's parentage, either because Ned told him or because he guessed it and confronted Ned and/or Howland Reed. Benjen, who well knew Lyanna and Ned both, would find it hard to believe that Ned would cheat and he may have had insight into Lyanna's relationship with Rhaegar. But knowing the truth, Benjen might have trouble treating Jon as a bastard, so he removed himself from the situation to avoid arousing the suspicion of anyone else concerning Jon's parentage, Catelyn in particular.
This would be so fucking awesome! Jon returning with the Sword of Dawn and being able to fight with a sword in both hands is my new "Permanent Wet Dream"!
What if: Summer had been just a few seconds later in saving Bran and Catelyn and the assassin had killed Cat? Bran lives thanks to his wolf but Cat is dead.
Jeor would die from the Wights prior to the great ranging. The only reason he survived is because of Jon being at the Wall. Frankly I think that Westeros would be a significantly worse situation. They may even end up losing the fight against the WWs
If Ned doesn't exist then Littlefinger probably doesn't conspire to kill Jon Arryn. Littlefinger knew that Robert would pick Ned as his next hand and knew he could manipulate him and cause chaos. But if Littlefinger thought Robert would pick Stannis as his next hand then this is a terrible scenario for Littlefinger as Stannis is dedicated to shutting down the corruption and scheming of King`s Landing including Littlefinger. The only way that Littlefinger still has Jon Arryn killed is if he also sets up a plan to assassinate Stannis before he do anything important. Then the position of the hand likely passes to Renly who Littlefinger can control alot more easily.
One problem once Martel's of Dorne heard of Arthur Dayne's tale they would be convinced to shelter The Young Targaryan with other refugees Targaryans IE Dany and Viserys. So Arthur Dayne would be sworn to protect all the Targaryans. So the idea of Viserys becoming cruel would be stopped by Arthur. I suspect Ashara Dayne would go with her brother to Essos instead of fake killing herself.
actually the inheritance says clearly that the sons of the king/warden has priority in ruling over the brothers. thats why robb would eventually rule winterfell.
Why would Arthur's not go to Daenerys and Viserys right off the bat? Sure, there's a risk of Robert finding out about Jon's true identity but what difference does it make if Jon is out of his reach? I just think that this is one of the options for Arthur, and he might have done it to give Jon a chance to grow up beside his last remaining family (could you imagine Jon and Dany's relationship in this scenario? Not to mention Viserys and his craziness)
What IF Lancel blew out the candle? This is referring to when Cersei blew up the sept of Baelor. He had an opportunity to blow out the candle but didn't for some reason, what would have happened if he did?
Hey bat not sure if you read your comments but could you do a video on what's the difference between benjen Stark and the zombie Mountain it kind of seems like both of them or somewhere in between being dead and Undead. Could either of them even turn by the night King since they're kind of in between the living and the dead
I think Robert would have drank himself to death after hearing about both Ned and his love being dead.
Making Stannis King.
Poor Jon Arryn
Prolly but this dude isn’t smart enough to think that detailed
It's a good death. Jon would of been raised better. I think Westeros would be terrified of the best knight raising a targerian king. "You want me to fight Ser author dayne in battle. Fucking poison him now."
He did that anyway …..
What if Lancel wasn't such a stupid name?
Who named him? some halfwit with a stuhttter?
Bahahhaha
What if Lancel found the breast plate stretcher?
What if Lancel didn't have one ball and no brains?
what if lancels cup wasnt empty?
Imagine how good of a swordsman Jon would be with Arthur Dayne training him
I thought the exact same thing. :)
Will Cruikshank A great fighter isn't necessarily a great teacher.
He's already the best sword in the North with Arthur fucking Dayne training him he could be the best sword in the world
And Barristan Selmy too....
Genghis Jake Fair but still likely. Jon would learn much from sparring with Dayne
You say Bran dosen‘t get pushed because jaime lannister dosen‘t go North right?
But bran dosent exist in this scdnario
Ricardo De silva yep only Robb out of the original group.
Ricardo De silva actually Bran would probably be born by Benjen and Cat, as well as Arya, Sansa, Rickon, but they probably wouldn't be the same.
Technically he would be born in the union of Benjen and Kat. The magic would not be denied.
Bran could be a product of Benjen and Cat still. I was just trying to cover all scenarios, but I suppose I should have also said Bran as we know him wouldn't be there.
TheBattProductions If Ned isn't this child's father how can we call him Bran? Half his genetic code would be different. Yes he'd be Catelyn's Stark child but he wouldn't simply be Bran with a different father, that's not how child conception works
So it's either...
A) Be raised by Ned and have all that heroic honor that makes women cream their pants.
B) Be raised by Dayne and become absolutely GODLIKE with a sword.
Super Strat so the choice is pussy or pussy
I have the biggest man crush on Dayne, so I'd go for B. Eventually I'd be able to hook up with Dany or Margaery later anyway
Ximen or both 🤔🤔
Being good with your sword can churn that cream.
John Stark Yep, but if I got Margaery first, I wouldn't give two shits about Daenerys
What if robert listened to ned and agreed to sent jaime to the wall for killing the mad king??
Love it!
Tywin would be super pissed and cersei would never be wed. Jon arryn encouraged robert to wed the lannister for a major support like financial and powerful alliances. The lannister are very rich and powerful, anyone would love to have them as allies.
Eh, Tyrells are the saner choice methinks
The night kings head gets put on a icy pike before the story even starts
seraphiccandy21 yeah man but they fought against him in the rebellion
What if Joanna Lannister didn't die giving birth to Tyrion
Mainly Tywin might have given him more of a place in the Lannister family and Tyrion might not have killed Tywin. Cersei and Tyrion would be on better terms, and he probably wouldn't have joined Dany
All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes.
And maybe Oberyn and Elia would marry Cersei and Jaime like both their mothers had planned for them.
@@excelsior3626Elia and Jaime seems more likely.
"Jon could be a good warrior but not as good as in the Show" God Damn it this boy has been trained by Arthur Dayne since he could walk
Agree 💯%
He’d *still* be an amazing warrior, but what I *don’t* think he’d have, is _the bitterness_ that Jon did originally- Jon always felt a bit inadequate next to Robb, growing up- as well as having a warm-hearted, affectionate nurse, instead of Catelyn’s coldness- & then there’s the other sibling/ cousin relationships - without all that, you have to wonder how his personality would form...
I also wonder, would Arthur tell him about his parents, without naming names- or what?
Ned gave Jon no details about his mother, but Jon **did** grow up with the assumption of Ned as his dad, & had his example to learn from- would Arthur just be his guardian, or would he let Jon think he was his dad, like Ned did?
@@OcarinaSapphr- He'd probably tell him. I mean he is literally his king, he cant just keep that from him
@@Goetterkomplex_
Yeah- I don’t agree with theBatt that it’d be kept from him, until his mid-teens- telling him he can’t go round saying who he is, is one thing- not telling him at all, is another...
Brann would never fell of the tower if he was never born
Could've still been born from Benjen and Cat.
TheBattProductions Especially because Brandon is an INSANELY common Stark name.
TheBattProductions it would be a boy named Brandon stark but it wouldn't be the bran stark we know.
With Ned dead before any other kids but robb being conceived you can't can't really say that Sansa arya bran or rickon would exist. Benjen is not Ned. His kids can't expected to be the same characters. Killing Ned at the tower eliminated all the young starks from the story. With other characters to fill their spots if needed but they would drastically different and you can't plug them in for the missing stark kids.
Sure it could. Benjen has the exact same genetics as Ned and believed in the same things Ned did as a Stark. Only difference we're aware of is that Ned was quieter.
Benjen and Ned wasnt raised together,Ned was foster by jon arryn,they might have the same ideals but they are much different men
No no no!!! So much more changes!!! Thing about it: Ned Stark dies at that moment, only Robb was born. Not Sansa, not bran, not rikkon, not Arya. I mean, rikkon wasn't the most important character, but Sansa Brandon and Arya's storylines were so important and they wouldn't have happened.
What if Osha successfully killed Ramsay
Black Frost that would change a lot of the end game
Oo00o I like that one!!!
That's a REALLY good one
What IF Jon didn't went to Dragonstone but send an emissary just like Sansa requested instead?
If hbo does a prequel spin off series they have to include ser aurthor Dane
I agree!
MORE ARTHUR DAYNE!!!
Michael DiGiovancarlo battle of the bells
They'll probably won't do a spin-off with robert's rebellion, since we already know most of it
clara bolle I think they will do something about telling the story of the targeryion. Maybe start with aegon the good.
Hasn't it been confirmed that Robert's Rebellion isn't the spinoff?
What if Bran woke up like two days after falling and had perfect memory. So basically everyone important was still there.
However there can be two plots:
1. People believe Bran
2. They don't
It's pretty early on, therefore it will change lots of stuff
That's a pretty interesting "what if" scenario.
One would presume that Catelyn and Ned are going to believe him. If King Robert believes it, then all hell is liable to break loose in Winterfell, with Ned probably desperately trying to prevent lives from being lost. And then there's what happens after Tywin gets word of whatever happens in Winterfell, as there's pretty much no one in King's Landing save Renley and Loras and whatever small band of Baratheon and Tyrell retainers they have on hand to oppose Tywin from marching on in should he decide to do so.
Stannis is at Dragonstone with the most ships, and the Tully's at Riverrun to stop Tywin marching to King's Landing. Basically since Bran woke up after Catelyn makes it to the capital, the north would send word of what Bran saw to Ned or Catelyn. Lannisters get dethroned. Stannis is king
James Hocking Bad things happen for team Lannister. Robert believes the young child, who has no reason to lie, and who confirms rumors that have circled for years. Jamie dies fighting the Kingsgaurd when they come to arrest him. Cersei is summarily beheaded. Tywin is devastated, as his family was everything for him. But he has no play. Robert has all 6 of the other Kingdoms with him. An attack against Robert would be suicide. Daenarys never comes to Westeros, as the spider creature that comes out of the ball kills her. Robert marries Sansa or Margery Tyrell and gets much better sex than he had been with icy Cersei or the paid women he was playing with. Joffrey and Tommen are semt to live and be raised by Tywin. They all live happily until the Night King comes and kills them all.
@@paraguaymike5159 he still wouldn’t really be happy either Sansa or Margaery. Remember the reason why Cersei isn’t willing to be with him is because he called her Lyanna on their wedding night. I imagine Sansa would feel a similar level of discontent if she was to marry Robert whilst Margaery may be better off (because she supposedly resembles Lyanna according to Renly, but not Ned) and not be that affected by it. Robert would be miserably married to anyone who wasn’t Lyanna.
Bran could convince his parents that he is telling the truth by revealing things that they only knew like how Arthur Dayne died, Jon's real heritage or Catelyn's unfulfilled promise to the Gods (and implying that what happened to him was a punishment)
What if nymeria killed joffrey?
He would have died like a bitch.
Yes, thank you
Walks As Elk it would of been a happy day
Everone would be happy
Ollena's badass death does not happen
What if Robert Baratheon legitimized all of his bastards?
Blackfyre Rebellion 2.0
instead of the war of the 5 kings it would have been the war of 21 kings and queens (because we would have to add Roberts 16 children into that war)
Joff sent to order to murder them anyway. Only making a potential diff. for Gendry.
Most legitimised bastards’ lives didn’t change- the majority of Aegon IV’s bastards’ lives just went on as they had - the only reason the Blackfyre Rebellions happened was because two particular bastards had highborn mothers- so, no- it wouldn’t be ‘War of the 21 Kings/ Queens’- unless there’s a Perkin Warbeck situation, & someone with power is able to prop them up...
Otherwise, there’s only one/ two bastards of Robert that matter; Edric Storm’s mother was a Florent- I don’t remember if Mya had a good family, I think she was in service to the Waynwoods- maybe I’m misremembering...
In either case, with boys being ahead of girls, regardless of age- Edric is **the only legitimised bastard who matters** , & Renly/ Stannis (depending on the timeline) has custody of him...
@@6319-p6s it would like that but even more fury
What IF arya had chosen Tywin as one of the people to die at the hands of Jaqar
Pablo Escobar she did but Tywin had already left
ThatCrazyDrunk lol, totally forgot
Already did that i think
Pablo Escobar good one!!!
He already did xD
What if Roose Bolton wasn't poisoned by his enemies?
Poor guy, I wouldn’t have believed he had enemies to poison him, if it hadn’t happened.
Roose Bolton was never poisoned, he was killed by his son Ramsey
@@shankhadipsett1674 you don’t say
@@user-mr1zy4nu7l why?
@@shankhadipsett1674 I was being sarcastic
What if Tyrion wasn't a dwarf
He wouldn't have to pay for... you know.
alex miz Tywin hated Tyrion mostly because his wife died giving birth to him, honestly I don't think he cares that much about him being a dwarf.
I don't know if I'd ever be able to do this one truthfully. I want to, but man would it be hard to figure out what would change. I think Tywin hated him for different reasons than being a small man. Maybe one day I shall try it!
thank you for the answers! I agree Tywin would still be stern but I doubt he would want him dead, like he did now. So I think he wouldn't have let the trial go that way, since he knew Tyrion was innocent
LaBass666 if he thought that tyrion would be dead
What if Cersei had the brains to keep Margaery alive for Tommen's sake? Would things in season 7 gone down the same or would Olenna make different moves?
OOo00oo that's a brilliant idea. I dig it!
TheBattProductions all of your what if is purely tv show version. The book's version is more complex, they have so many subplots and characters, and choices?
What if Ramsey wins Battle of the bastards?
What if Euron doesn't intercept the ships from Dorne?
What if Jon sends Ser Alliser to eastwatch and doesn't get betrayed?
Excellent suggestions!!!
WOW! This is your best "What if" of all! Ned Stark dying at the Tower of Joy would have set into motion a whole different set of scenarios. Except from Rob and Jon, who knows if any of the other Stark children would have been born or how different their lives would have been. No one would have really known about the treat beyond the Wall. It's amazing how one death at a certain time can affect the whole outcome, thanks.
8:35 Bran was never born in this senario. Robb is the only Stark kid from the show that would actually be born because...well...Ned can't fuck Cat from the grave.
I believe that Arthur might have actively looked for child Dany and Viserys since they are both Targaryans that are known to be alive but on the run
Everyone : Arthur Dayne is the finest knight
Arthur Dayne : HAHAHAHAHAHA I AM STRONGER THAN YOU
"That could potentially affect him becoming the three eyes raven in the future" yes, it would affect it greatly SINCE HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BORN in this scenario
What IF Jamie Lannister was not kept in Kings Landing during Roberts Rebellion. Maybe he would have been at the Trident or Tower of Joy ?
Well in that scenario the Mad King burns down King's Landing and dies in the flames convinced that he would be reborn as a Dragon. Rhaegar would survive and will allow the combatants their lives. Since Rhaegar's first wife is in King's Landing she would still die horribly. The Child in Dorne will be brought to Dragonstone where he would grow up being the Prince that is promised. Tywin as hand of the king would urge Rhaegar to remarry. I think King Rhaegar would not. Rhaegar's Mother would raise Aegon along with Viserys and Dany at Dragonstone. Aegon is proclaimed the Heir to the Kingdom. Rhaegar would implement the Lord's Council as a legislature of such. Perhaps they rebuild King's Landings or not.
How would Rhaegar live? Not even Barristan could of saved him from Robert's fury. Robert would kill him and like Barristan, Jaime would of been recovering from battle wounds and join the Kings guard under Robert. Had Jaime been at the Tower of Joy is really a pickle, I don't know about that one, perhaps he would kill Ned? Maybe hearing the events of King's Landing he betrays his brothers to help the Lannisters (more likely) and therefore Ned. The Mad King would of burnt down King's Landing and many Lannisters would've died. Maester Pycelle and Varys and the Mountain would all burn. Tywin I don't think would have died and he would be ruler of the ashes. Robert takes King's Landing, perhaps Storm's End becomes the capital? Rebuild Kings Landing? Most interesting thing is that if Jaime was at Tower of Joy, what he would do knowing about Jon's true heritage.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' Let's explain. There was only two people in the Kings guard that could of protected Rhaegar Ser Barristan Selmy and Jamie Lannister. Jamie loved Rhaegar. He was the best swordsman other than Arthur Dayne who is at the Tower of Joy. If Jamie was at Rhaegar's Side it would have been Him who Robert fought Not Rhaegar alone. So both Jamie even if Injured would have delayed Robert enough for a Rhaegar victory. Robert would have had to concede.
Theresa Steward I dunno Robert crushed Rhaegar at the Trident without sustaining any battle stopping wounds. He might be able to take Jaime, who you theorize *might* be there in time, which I doubt.
Stannnis the 'Mannis' if Jaime was fighting along side rhaegar, Tywin would of definitely send his forces to support rhaegar. Definitely doesn’t want Jaime to die
I really enjoyed this video.
Also imagine...how great of a swordsman Jon Snow would have been being trained by Ser Arthur Dayne.
Why thank ya Gretchen!
I KNOW RIGHT. Seriously. Jon could've been THE BEST in Essos...other than Arthur Dayne.
I think in all honesty, Jon would ve been a lot more battle-tested and hardened in this version. Aside from being presumably trained since birth by the best swordsman at the time, they're also living far away from home and familiar comforts that Westerosi nobles would be accustomed to, plus on a hostile continent with a lot more frequent wars and unfamiliar peoples who don't give seven hells about what your birthright and status were from across the sea.
All in all, unless they managed to secure a patronage with Willem Darry or Illyrio Mopatis in Braavos, Jon would most likely have grown up in a Sellsword company or as a two-man nomad team with Dayne, constantly on the lookout for bandtis, Dothraki raiders, hired assassins or anyone else who would try to attack them, as well as looking for employers who are in need of hired swords. Pretty much living a life since childhood constantly in danger of being killed or on the move and having plenty of first hand combat experience would've made Jon a much more battle-hardened and resourceful fighter + strategist; a lot more so than the normal timeline.
Ser Arthur Dayne is the only man in Westros that I would support him over Ned Stark
True he was more honorable
For the most part I agree with you. But if anyone had Arthur Dayne "The Sword of The Morning" teaching them in combat from childhood. Would be a definite force to be reckoned with.
A few I was always curious about were always to do with Arya because her storyline could've changed in so many places, like what if the Lannisters never attacked the nights watch caravan she was with, or what if she hadn't run from the brotherhood without banners. Idk those are probably small but ones I think about, like how they would've changed the overall story with her.
As good as Jon snow is with a sword, being raised by Arthur dayne, I think he would've become the best swordsman around
The Harpys would die, Ser Barristan would be alive because he would have Ser Arthur Dayne, Greyworm and possibly a Ser Arthur Dayne trained Jon Snow.
Dany wouldn't be as fierce in S7 with Ser Barristan Selmy, Tyrion Lannister, Ser Arthur Dayne, Greyworm, Ser Jorah Mormont, etc.
He’s still alive in the books cause he wore armor and had a big fuckin sword
What if catlen kept her promise to the gods and asked ned to have jon legitimized
Wow I've suggested this video about 3 times, thought you were never going to do it! Great video!
If Ser Arthur would have kill
Ned than surely Jon Snow would be
raise by Ser Arthur Dayne 'Sword of Moring and would be even more of a badass swordsman Aegon Targaryen in Westeros period, that might rides dragons, since Ragnar & Ser Arthur are best friends, right now Jon is good swordman thanks to Night Watch, and Uncle Ned Stark who raise Jon as
his bast**d Son, but if Jon was raise by Ser Arthur Dayne, He wouldn't never call a bast**d Son, It would be totally be a different story, and he would be the one as the ruler on thorne as Prince Aegon Targaryen, and
live at Dragonstone as Kingsdom as
well Tower of Joy where he was born at, where Ser Arthur Dayne try to protects, thanks to Pince Ragnar Targaryen who gave Ser Arthur Dayne orders to stay there to protect the Tower Of Joy where Lyanna Stark gave birth to baby boy Prince Aegon Targaryen aka Jon Snow.
And, hell we might not sees dead
wrights zombies in North, and
Jon would never be raise in North but
In South hot Westeros by Ser Arthur Dayne.
A couple of thoughts here: Ser Arthur Dayne was a Kingsguard knight. Why would he not have gone directly to join the rest of the Targaryens in Braavos? Jon could have grown up with Viserys and Danerys, and possibly Jon Con and Aegon would join them. With a teacher like Arthur Dayne, Jon would be one awesome swordsman. With Arthur Dayne there, and the money he has on his own, Viserys and Dany would never have had to live on their own when Ser Williem died.
What if khal drogo never died?
He did that video aready.. Pretty much like the Mongols invading China.
Becomes da khal of 7 kingdoms and
What If: Tywin lost and died in his fight against House Reyne.
Jon Snow would've been "Ned Sand"!
baronessvondengler Agon Sand
What if Ned never finds out about Cerseis incest
I could see Dayne joining the Golden Company. There he would rise through the ranks unbelievably quickly. In that case Aegon would start to join their battles once Arthur considers him proficient enough to hold his own. If anything these battles would give him better experience than fighting ferocious but untrained wildlings.
Show Jon in particular clearly has a natural talent with the sword, of it was Dayne training him and not Cassell then he would be crazy skilled.
Dayne is a pretty honourable guy too, I don't think Jon would be much less honourable by growing up with him.
Eventually him and Danaerys would hook up similar to current events only she would have three dragons (He would end up riding Rhaegal) the unsullied, the dothraki and he would have tje golden company at his back. Westeros would stand no chance.
So he basically becomes Young Griff.
If you follow real life precedent Benjen would rule as a Regent, as the Lord Robb would be classified a minor, until Robb came of age and then he would take over.
Love these what if videos. Sometimes I just watch one on my phone before going to sleep. Keep it up :)
Thanks Tim!
That's such a great compliment. I'll keep making 'em!
Stay hyped for the fooking Cleganebowl,y'all!
Valar hypeghulis
I'm ALWAYS hyped for it
Piss off
so he would be a real version of faegon in the books
Arthur Dayne > Jon Conn in my opinion.
Shinobi Acumen i agree, but he basically paralleled those two stories, just more likeable characters.
book or show
Pretty much, yeah.
Man Jon was would be one bad ass swordsmen and get fantastic leadership skills from his lessons by being raised by Sir Arthur Dayne
And, his name wouldn't be call
Jon Snow but Prince Aegon Targaryen
which what it said on G.O.T on
Jon birth certificate after his real
parents name him before he was born,
but in wound stomach of pregnant Lyanna Stark.
What if ned accepted Renly's plan to over throw Joffrey and claim the throne for himself
Like he will fight for Stannis the mannis Baratheon
If Stannis was the Hand of the King, Robert might've still been alive, since Stannis wouldn't have given Cersei a warning and time to plan her next move. She would've been arrested and most likely executed before she would be able to conspire with Lancel to get Robert drunk and killed on the hunt.
Always so interesting to listen to these. You think of so many different angles and implications.
i think if Arthur Dayne had lived, he would have made his intent make Jon the king. he knew that he was a legitimate Targaryen, and rightful heir to the 7 kingdoms. Jons father was his closest friend. would have protected him at all costs, but very few would challenge him. the war would have never been over, till Arthur was killed.
Do you think Arthur would have joined the golden company? If so wouldn't Jon be pretty dang battle tested being raised with sellswords and all. Also wouldn't Jon connington probably recognize Arthur?
Do What if Bronn had agreed to fight The Mountain during Tyrion's second trial by combat.
Why would Arthur dayne go to essos? Claiming baby Jon is his sisters child is so easy. Ned loved ashara everyone knows that. No one is gonna be looking for Jon having ashara raise him as her own would be fine. The daynes look valyrian if Jon end up looking too targaryen. But Jon look exactly like Ned in the books. Cat hates Jon more in the books because he looks more like Ned than any of her children. A boy the spitting image of Ned stark born to the woman he actually had feelings for is not going to raise eyebrows. They can make up a story to cover the timeline disconnect no one is going to call bullshit on that. Jon is safer in starfall as Ned Stark's bastard than in essos with Arthur dayne. You only wrote that so you can have dayne and selmy meet up again and maybe fight.
I know you did Kevin I know that's why you did it.
Javo Dayne would be murdered by Robert because he killed Ned, and so Ashara would have killed herself as she did, which means that Jon would either be killed by Robert or kept by Robert as a son, until Cersei would probably have him murdered or something
DUDE! This has got to be one of your best what if videos, to date! Very interesting turn of events. Totally different story unfolding. Nicely done! 👍
8:10 both kings who chose their brothers as hand (Aenys I and Aegon III) ended up doing pretty well as far as their brothers went.
Well, with Aenys, it’s questionable- I mean, his reign was far less peaceful than his father’s- & he fell ill & died rather rapidly (part of that could be chalked up to Visenya doing whatever she had to, to bring Maegor to power)...
I totally love you (as an youtuber
I think this is impossible. I believe Ser Arthur was specifically tasked with letting Ned live by Rhaegar Targaryen. In the show Ser Arthur cut Ned's friends up like carving a cake, then when fighting Ned alone he had multiple chances of killing him but didnt.
I know it's a bit late but what if you were a character in Got? And what are your thoughts on sothoryos and it's city of yeen
obviously robert would stannis after jon
because in Robert's era stannis and jon arryan were ruling kingdom robert was just drinking and enjoying
Not the same guy, true. I can see Jon being still fairly humble and maybe hardened from, maybe, fighting off Varys’s assassins himself and then fighting alongside Dany, who isn’t looking for a bed buddy due to losing her husband and son. He’ll be fighting alongside Jorah, Arthur Dayne, Barristan, the Unsullied, and the assorted sellswords.
Love it!
Arthur Dayne taking Jonn to essos for safety totally blew my mind.
What is Lord Karstark killed Jaimie Lannister??
What IF Varys made an alliance with LittleFinger instead of opposing him? The two of them working together would have been very powerful.
What if Bran didn't see the twincest action?
Bow chicka wow wow.
I sort of did a vid on this once I believe. It was "What if Bran Survives"...hopefully it'd be similar!
So Aegon Sand(Jon Snow) becomes the new "Sword of the Morning" and wielder of "Dawn" after being trained by Arthur Dayne? Sounds about right to me and I'm sure "Dawn" would help end the new "Long Night"
no only a member of house dayne may wield dawn its Aegon targaryen
You have such a great imagination. Thank you for sharing it with us. Also, thanks for always having such a pleasant attitude; it's much appreciated. Have a fantastic week! 🌸
What if when Jon died he came back as the ghost rider from marvel the Lord of light brings him back as fire incarnate
I think in the Baratheon-Lannister war these would happen:
- The Reach would side with the Westerlands with the promise of a marriage between Joff and Marg.
- Littlefinger would side with the rebels because he cannot manipulate Stannis.
- The Vale (which was under the influence of Littlefinger) would also join the rebels with a marriage alliance between Robyn and Myrcella.
- The Iron Islands would be paid to join the rebels too, as well as the two richest kingdoms hiring mercenaries from Essos to build their numbers (perhaps the golden company?).
- Dorne is unsure because they were carefully plotting the defeat of the Lannisters, not waiting for all our war (as we saw in them not joining Renly in the WOTFK).
As a result they would be pretty equal and I'd say the throne would fall leaving the North and Riverlands alone. Since they have little stake in the war beyond duty I'd say a peace would come, perhaps through a marriage of Tommen or Lorras to a daughter of Benjen.
I think it would be cool if in this time line Arthur Dane trains Jon and he becomes the sword of the morning instead of the prince who was promised.
Nice I was looking foward for this scenairio definetly one of most wanted what ifs.
did you like it?!
I'm actually not sure Renly would join Stannis. Renly actually hated the idea of Stannis being king as seen when he trys to get ned to take down Cersei in the night to stop her from taking power.
Hhmmm I mentioned this idea in my video to try to win the valyrian sword and now it's a video.
But I have been giving this a lot of thought.
And I see somethings things going differently.
First to point it out. In the north, Robb would be lord and benjen would be reagent. Meaning benjen runs things till Robb is ready. Benjen has no claim unless Robb dies. Also there would be no Sansa arya bran or rickon.
Back in dorne though I don't see Arthur dayne leaving for essos. They have a ready made excuse ashara had a baby that was still born not to long before then. Just replace the dead baby with Jon. Tell everyone this baby is Eddard Sand, a bastard love child between the late Ned Stark and ashara dayne. Fleeing to essos draws attention staying and hiding in plain sight is better and lucky for everyone Jon grows up to look very much like Ned so no one who knew Ned would doubt the claim. Certainly not his grief stricken best friend.
Robert would kill any targaryen this is true but a baby he believes is the blood of his brother he might even squire Jon himself.
Believe Arthur dayne retires from the kings guard not wanting to serve Robert or be part of any more Wars. Arthur was more a tournament knight than a warrior. Barristan was the warrior knight. Arthur raises "Ned" to be a good fighter perhaps even the next sword of the morning.
When Robb is made lord I think Robert takes it upon himself to in one go legitimize "ned", knight him and name him to the kings guard. A pet knight a reminder of his beloved friend.
I think stannis is the one to take theon as a ward. Giving him tough love and teaching him to be a good seaman too. Bringing theon closer to his ironborn roots.
I think Robb's first big test as lord of winterfell is the wilding invasion.
I don't think Jon arryn dies at least not how he dies the show. Littlefinger has him killed to start the Lannister stark war. With out Ned there there is no war to start. But i do think the lannisters have to make a big move in order to gain power. Because with stannis more involved it's harder to swoop in and take control the moment Robert is on his deathbed. I feel like the the war would be a southern war with the Lannisters and baratheons fighting and making the kingdoms choose. This is when varys finally has something go his way and the kingdom is in chaos just in time for the dothraki to make landfall in westeros with a dragon queen leading them.
In the wake of Roberts death I feel like Ned breaks his oath and goes to find himself. That is till Robb falls in the north.
And a master plan is set in motion. The dornish have known who Ned sand is the entire time and they prepare. They first send Ned north with troops to save the north from the wildings. On the way gaining support from north friendly houses. The king legitimized Ned long ago. The north has fallen. But Ned stark still has a son that lives. So Jon rides north beats the wildlings back beyond the wall.
Dany is tearing the kingdom apart with her horselords and dragons. The golden company make their appearance they bring aegon with them he appears to be the savior of the realm.
Till in winterfell the new lord Eddard Stark is met by members of house Martel and told who he really is. They present him with a relic many though was lost forever. Aegon's iron crown. Ned raises the banners calls in the alliances of the tullys and Arryns the dornish sail north to meet him and Eddard meet aegon at the twins for one final battle for the realm. Ned leading the charge wearing aegon's crown and wielding dawn.
What if Ned stark doesn't keep Jon's real parentage a secret
This would piss off everyone, the conquenese would be very dangerous. The North, riverland, vale, stormland would be driven to another civil war, they all likely invade the north, nobody would want to put or support another targaryen, they are a lost cause, they just lost everything. Rheagar just pissed off the martell and the baratheon. The mad king killed Ned's father and brother, other northern lord's sons. The northmen some of them would backstabb ned and the stark family's name would be ruined forever.
Love this! Can't wait to watch more!
Jon’s sword skills would be way better if Ser Arthur Dayne raised him.
Great video as ever, I love the WHAT IFs. I appreciate how you ended it before delving too deep, because that wasn't what the video was about (what happens after with the Others/White Walkers, etc).
I'm curious, though, how you think it might happen after? To me, I'd say that if it went along what you said, we'd still see dragons, perhaps even Jon and Dany hitting the shore ready to invade, but if they (well, Dany, really, probably) a kingdom ralllying their banners toward a greater threat, she might start to wonder, well, how can I help? She's known for that, if Slaver's Bay is any evidence. Sure, it's on a much larger and emotional scale, but helping instead of invading, necessarily, has always brought her greater fortune.
One can poke at that last point as you will, what with burning slavers and putting living men on spikes as penance and symbol, but it's not the same sort of 'world', here. She knows that. Dayne knows that. Presumably Jon knows that just as much as Dany, as they both only know from teachings. I feel like they'd still help. Maybe prophecies still get fulfilled (the ones that are real, anyway), maybe House Baratheon still gets wiped out in terms of heirs, but at this point Robert's claim, which is by conquest but ALSO by citing his lineage to Aegon V (via Princess Rhaelle and Ormund Baratheon), is now void. Yes, that Aemon V, by nickname of Egg, brother of Aemon Targaryen at the Wall.
There are other Targaryens. Sure. We're not sure who the book Aegon is if the shows are book-canon (and if he's legit) to any degree (or if they just nix it like a lot of other characters that don't REALLY matter), but there's one, but we're not going over all that. We're talking what happens in this WHAT IF.
Overall, I think it plays out a lot more peacefully, with Stannis on the throne with no War of Five Kings.
Addendum: If Young Griff is Aegon in this scenario, well, that's a war that causes similar complications that the show ...well, shows. Albeit much earlier. There's certainly some contention there, as well as much more food for thought.
Extra addendum: What's up with Varys?
Imagine that Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan the Bold together and helping Jon and Dany conquer the seven Kingdoms. What a fighting duo that would be.
This clearly takes a lot of thought from you! Very good!
What if Tommen did not commit suicide at the end of season 6?
Ooo00ooo I love it. Wise suggestion.
Thanks.
TheBattProductions Question: what do you think book jon snow real name be, not like Aegon in the show, maybe jaehaerys targaryen or aemon?
Bro what do you mean affect bran becoming 3 eyed raven with Ned dead the only other stark child born would be Robb
This hypothesizing over Ned dying at the Tower of Joy and the position it puts Benjen in does raise an interesting point of its own though: why does Benjen join the Nights Watch at all? As far as I can tell, he does so before Bran is born. That means the Stark line is down to just Ned, the boy Robb and the purported bastard Jon. They have no Stark first cousins at all - male or female - though they might have some male line Stark second and third cousins. So Benjen actually ought to be marrying and producing some alternate Stark heirs of his own.
My guess is that Benjen actually knows about Jon's parentage, either because Ned told him or because he guessed it and confronted Ned and/or Howland Reed. Benjen, who well knew Lyanna and Ned both, would find it hard to believe that Ned would cheat and he may have had insight into Lyanna's relationship with Rhaegar. But knowing the truth, Benjen might have trouble treating Jon as a bastard, so he removed himself from the situation to avoid arousing the suspicion of anyone else concerning Jon's parentage, Catelyn in particular.
This would be so fucking awesome! Jon returning with the Sword of Dawn and being able to fight with a sword in both hands is my new "Permanent Wet Dream"!
YES! I've been wanting this theory forever! Thank you so much!
"How did you get your Targaryen?"
I actually choked laughing.
What IF Rhaego lived?
5:17 this version of Jon Snow may not have the battle experience but he'd be training under Ser Arthur Dayne which might almost compensate
I can buy that argument. Hard to compare to actual battle, but that's a pretty amazing teacher I think!
What if:
Summer had been just a few seconds later in saving Bran and Catelyn and the assassin had killed Cat? Bran lives thanks to his wolf but Cat is dead.
Jeor would die from the Wights prior to the great ranging. The only reason he survived is because of Jon being at the Wall. Frankly I think that Westeros would be a significantly worse situation. They may even end up losing the fight against the WWs
That's certainly possible!!!
Wouldn't mind seeing the White Walkers win
If Ned doesn't exist then Littlefinger probably doesn't conspire to kill Jon Arryn. Littlefinger knew that Robert would pick Ned as his next hand and knew he could manipulate him and cause chaos. But if Littlefinger thought Robert would pick Stannis as his next hand then this is a terrible scenario for Littlefinger as Stannis is dedicated to shutting down the corruption and scheming of King`s Landing including Littlefinger. The only way that Littlefinger still has Jon Arryn killed is if he also sets up a plan to assassinate Stannis before he do anything important. Then the position of the hand likely passes to Renly who Littlefinger can control alot more easily.
One problem once Martel's of Dorne heard of Arthur Dayne's tale they would be convinced to shelter The Young Targaryan with other refugees Targaryans IE Dany and Viserys. So Arthur Dayne would be sworn to protect all the Targaryans. So the idea of Viserys becoming cruel would be stopped by Arthur. I suspect Ashara Dayne would go with her brother to Essos instead of fake killing herself.
actually the inheritance says clearly that the sons of the king/warden has priority in ruling over the brothers. thats why robb would eventually rule winterfell.
Why would Arthur's not go to Daenerys and Viserys right off the bat? Sure, there's a risk of Robert finding out about Jon's true identity but what difference does it make if Jon is out of his reach? I just think that this is one of the options for Arthur, and he might have done it to give Jon a chance to grow up beside his last remaining family (could you imagine Jon and Dany's relationship in this scenario? Not to mention Viserys and his craziness)
But would Viserys have gone mad with another family member present and Ser Arthur Dayne to protect them and guide them ?
@@thewateringwiz7118 it was said by Barriston, that Viserys was showing sings since before he was like 8.
11:20 Kinvara?
Maybe Dayne trains Jon/Aegon?
Could be Kinvara!
This may sound stupid but what happens if Jamie never loses his hand
What IF Lancel blew out the candle?
This is referring to when Cersei blew up the sept of Baelor. He had an opportunity to blow out the candle but didn't for some reason, what would have happened if he did?
What if lancel found the breastplate stretcher
What if Margaery Tyrell had escaped the Sept of Baelor and had survived?
Hey bat not sure if you read your comments but could you do a video on what's the difference between benjen Stark and the zombie Mountain it kind of seems like both of them or somewhere in between being dead and Undead. Could either of them even turn by the night King since they're kind of in between the living and the dead
You should do a "What if" Jamie was forced to take the black after killing the Mad King by Robert/Ned.