Pikmin 4, Pikmin 3, and the Scope of Adaptive Music
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
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In this video, I'm comparing the overworld music system in Pikmin 4 to that of Pikmin 3, to demonstrate the difference in their scope! Whether you go for a small, easily extensible little system of musical layers, or shoot for the moon with bespoke instrumental tracks for every scenario, scope is one of the first things to think about when designing an adaptive music system.
{ ? I ♥ } - Ігри
I remember the early days of pikmin 4 being out having to scroll through hundreds of individual music tracks and individually seperate enemy tracks to find specific songs, really put into perspective the size of the musical scope in it
Y’know there’s a video with every single enemy them right?
@@gboogie3257 *early* days
soo like, eight months ago
I know EXACTLY what you're talking about
Yes
Scruffy! My dude! My guy! My man!
You can't just TEASE us with the hypothetical of all 80+ Enemy themes playing at the same time and NOT give us a mockup of what that would sound like! Don't be so cruel!
I wouldnt imagine having 12 enemies in 1 spot and getting constantly bombarded with attacks
I want to hear it scruffy
Scruffy please we need it
PLEASE
Yes plaeas
Pikmin 4's music felt so ambient I didn't even pick up on the fact different enemies mixed in different tunes. I much prefer Pikmin 3's approach to handling music, as the more potent themes were more memorable, and made areas feel more distinct in my opinion.
Yes, I didn't even know that 4 had adaptive music. I was even upset because I thought it didn't!
i also didn't realize until it was pointed out to me that pikmin 4 had adaptive music, but after noticing it i had so much appreciation and respect for the sound team and the level designers. they both did amazing work to make sure that the individual tunes for each enemy would not only work with the base track for the areas, but be distinct and notable once you're made aware that they're there. it's subtle, don't get me wrong, but it's certainly impressive. though i am a bit disappointed that the spectralid track isn't a base part of the blossoming acadia music
Yea, I didn't care for the different enemy mixes in 4. The music in 3 was perfect, highlighting working, carrying, combat, etc... And the area themes in 3 were genuinely pleasant to listen to.
Honestly, same. Only the boss music was noticeable.
Yeah the music in the main modes of Pikmin 4 is so subdued as to barely even be considered music, and I'm really not a fan of that choice.
My favorite part of the music in Pikmin 4 was easily the Engulfed Castle. It's almost dead silent when you first arrive save for a few ambient notes, but the further that invisible timer starts ticking down, the more and more parts of the original Submerged Castle music start playing, until finally just before he drops, you have the entire original theme playing undisturbed. Masterful work.
Oh yeah that was really fun going in blind. Like that name (and the blue only requirement) sure was suspicious, and then I slowly hear the music come in…
@@JuneNafziger i was suspicious when i saw a hole's entrance completely underwater, the name was a dead give away, and then if you read the description and look at the image you have confirmation. 11/10 hole.
Pikmin 4 was an absolute delight to play through blind.
@@jasonreed7522 the thing was I was coming in with only a glancing knowledge of Pikmin 2 at the time, so some of the more specific details didn’t set off alarms, though the name sure did because I thought it was the same name (again, only a passing knowledge of 2 at the time)
BABE GET UP NEW SCRUFFY PIKMIN VIDEO
woooooo
I think it's really lovely that in Pikmin 4 each enemy sorta has their own "voice", it adds to the general ambience of the game like a distant bird song while giving it an air of playfulness
Personally I think I'll perfer the way Pikmin 3 goes about music but I wont understate the amount of work that went into Pikmin 4's
I just wish that enemies would respawn after some time so you could hear their music again--the overworld areas feel kind of empty and lonely with just the background chord track
Although I love Pikmin 4’s music (and have gained a better appreciation for it now!) I also would add the caveat that the base layer has to be quite small and ambient to allow for the extra layers to be added on. One benefit of Pikmin 3’s system is it has that adaptability, without having to sacrifice so much of its musical complexity.
What 4 did is impressive and I would not deny the effort they clearly put into what was done, but I honestly dislike the base region themes in 4 compared to the previous 3 games
Other than the 6th area, I've never been able to remember any of the themes terribly well because it felt like they were barely there due to being more... in the background
Now here’s a hot take:
Hey! Pikmin’s ost is better than any other Pikmin games ost
Even Pikmin 3 was a bit of a downgrade from the music of the first two games in ways. Although I personally also prefer it in some way just due to how beautiful it is.
@@OriginalGameteer Yeah, most of P4's main base tracks are kind of...forgettable, but I did quite enjoy the main game Hero's Hideaway and Giant's Hearth music. HOWEVER. The music in Olimar's Shipwreck Tale is 🤌🤌🤌. It's beautiful. I listen to the Blossoming Arcadia theme from that all the time, it's so good! Definitely wish the main game had some more melody-driven music, but there are some banging overworld tracks in other parts, so I personally don't find the ost too disappointing.
@@gboogie3257 Honestly, Hey! Pikmin's OST is probably the best part of the game. There's so many bangers.
Man I missed these music documentation videos, i love them so much
Have they done one on Lethal company?
@@igualdad5505 no
I found out each enemy had adaptive music AFTER beating 4 so I replayed the game afterwards just to hear it and it was so noticeable but also so natural that I dont even blame myself for not noticing since it blends so well with the gameplay
I’m just now learning about the adaptive music. I’m surprised I didn’t notice when I played
That's one of the only things I didn't like about Pikmin 4, the enemies never respawn
It's a fine day for Pikmin content
Louie
I’m barely into the video, and WOW just…let’s appreciate the editing. The visuals and music are all perfect, it all fits together so well. Scruffy’s always had god-tier editing, but the fact that it just keeps getting better with every video is mind-boggling
Easily one of the best UA-camrs, we’re eating good tonight with this What I Love!
I always wondered about how they avoided desync in the P3 soundtrack, using multiple audio channels for it makes a lot of sense! How neat to learn about!
That's the one part of the video that I question, actually. As long as the lengths and sample rates are the same, there shouldn't be any difference between encoding every channel in the same file vs different files, at least in terms of synchronisation (having them in one file _is_ more efficient in other ways, though, and it also might have been marginally easier since multichannel audio already existed for stereo tracks). But for syncing, the key is just that the layers played at the same time and faded in/out as needed, not that all the layers are in one file.
@@Meatball132i suspect having all the layers in 1 file helps ensure that you don't have any weirdness or delay with loading/playing multiple files at once. (Even if its on the order of milliseconds)
Regardless it is very elegant to just make an 8 channel stereo file and fade them in and out.
@@jasonreed7522 Yeah, that's one of the "efficient in other ways" I alluded to: loading times. On the GC/Wii especially though, where Nintendo most often used this technique, it's actually pretty important, because the file doesn't tend to be loaded all at once i.e. it's usually streamed from the disc as-needed, and that's too slow to do from multiple files at once (the audio will skip because the laser can't keep up).
Oh yeah. It’s pikmin time.
I think a neat combo would be assigning traits to music. Like:
These enemies skitter, these enemies stomp, these enemies trundle, etc. It isnt enemy specific, but it still adds a unique feel to each category of enemies.
You've got big brass for the lumbering, a kind of swing-ish tune for one's who trundle along, and a little bit of light percussion or woodwind for a little guy
When listening to Pikmin 4, i never noticed how much i *felt* the music rather than notice it. While fighting a bulborb or any enemy and hearing those instruments, I never *really noticed* it
that's impeccable audio design
I would absolutely love it if Scruffy somehow made a melody video that showcased every enemy track one by one with visuals similar to 6:04 for each enemy, like how Scruffy interprets each sound lol
My goodness Scruffy, the animation polish is absurd! Work well done indeed.
I love the "clean mess" stuff you use for visuals, like, there's no unneeded empty space but it's not cluttered, it's the perfect amount of stuff
Also some enemies that feature battle phases or different moves feature extra soundtracks; for example. The burrowing snagret has a muffled music while underground, the bug-eyed crawmad has a different track when vulnerable, and the bearded amprat's music gets faster and more vivid when his static electricity is active
8:19 I feel like the adaptive music system wouldn't have worked in olimar's shipwreck tale. the music is far more complex and apparent than its subtle base tracks (and maybe even more so than it is in previous games), the adaptive tracks might have been omitted to keep the full focus on the already complex music
When scruffy uploads i gain another year of life i think
I absolutely LOVE the Pikmin music, not just how they sound, but also how adaptive they are. It makes the abandoned Earth seem so much more alive and really makes you feel like there’s something new with every moment/action!
Pikmin music is genuinely another aspect of the UI giving you a constant feed of information about the game state, you just have to learn to hear it.
And aside from that, its music is always beautiful or atleast perfectly thematic to the level in all the variations. Its amazing to me that in 4 games they don't have a single track that i genuinely dislike, not even the submerged castle's associated trauma can ruin that erie masterpiece.
Me, breaking throw walls and chain link fences as soon as a new Scruffy video is uploaded:
Guess it's a matter of Pikking the right scope
The visual quality is incredible I love the improvement
The audio format the wii and wii u (and I guess sometimes switch) uses has always been really cool to me
specialized ADPCM audio archives with special parameters for loop points in audio, and support for as many channels as you need! Many first-party nintendo games and software starting from the Wii and even a few cases, on the Gamecube I've checked out uses the multiple channel setup for adaptive music using this very format, even introducing things like music which has some parts playing on the TV and some parts playing on the Gamepad for the Wii U. The format has quite the flexibility, and given the nature of the DSP-ADPCM format, the file sizes are not usually too bad at all! Couldn't be more fitting for games!
It's really awesome seeing a video that explores it a bit, a well made one at that! Well done!
What a treat this was to see pop up on my notifications after a day of work, I adore pikmin and getting to learn how 3 and 4 designed their music is utterly amazing! Also can I just heavily praise the 3D models here?? Their stunning and the animations are so smooth, well done sir!
YES NEW SCRUFFY PIKMIN MUSIC ANALYSIS
I love Pikmin Enemies small themes so much that i actually remixed one of them for MuffinSnakes (yes the artist (yes the one who makes the computer wall papers (yes the one who loves Magolor)))
It’s very cool and amazing how they were able to perfectly fit every theme for each small enemy they fr cooked with the ost for 4
I honestly didn't expect the Pikmin planet map at the end, that caught me WAY off-guard.
The visuals are just SO GOOD! All
Your vids on the music in the games made me realize it soo much more and made an appreciate it!
oh man your videos are art themselves, they are getting better and better, this one has been so visually interesting, love it, and can't even wonder how much did it take to edit
NEW SCRUFFY VIDEO DROPPED ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
I freaked out when I saw that there was a new scruffy video
Incredible visuals with this one, great work!!
Scruffy you promised us a fully voice - acted readout of the entire Pikmin 4's Piklopedia & Treasure catalog
It's been months now.
I have been eagerly awaiting the day that you would make a video about Pikmin 4's adaptive audio techniques!
I missed What I Love. I really enjoy hearing you talk about sound design it's so inspiring and insightful.
Learning about the concepts of adaptive music for someone's favorite game series will always be intriguing! Keep up the good work as always Scruffy.
Always a good day when Scruffy makes a video covering Pikmin music. I'm so glad vids like these exist because these soundtracks use so many cool tricks and ideas that are a little difficult to appreciate while playing the game but are so much better when you learn how they work. And I think you did a great job explaining this as always (plus I love all the little visuals and effects you draw to go along with the explanations).
I gotta say, I absolutely adore the care you put into each video you make. The soundtrack and sound effects, the eloquently worded script, and the phenomenal videos all blend together to create such a wonderful little experience. Thank you for attention to detail!
I've been looking forward to this video ever since Pikmin 4 even got revealed
These visuals are absolutely crazy! Great work as always, love it!
the production level is through the dang ATMOSPHERE!!! amazing as always scruffy
FINALLY!!! :D Scruffy, you are my favorite creator on this platform out of my like 400 subscriptions. I take so much inspiration from you in all of my projects because of just how fricking good you are. Also, every since you played through Pikmin 4 (I watched through almost every video, even if it would spoil me, I just wanted to see you in videos more), I have been so exited for you to make the adaptive audio stuff into a video, but you also covered Pikmin 3 as well, which i am super happy for. All in all, you are the best creator on this platform, and I always smile when I get a notification from you.
Things like this makes me respect game devs more and more, they put in so much work into every single aspect of a game to make it come to life :) Lovely video as always, Scruffy!
I'm continuously amazed at just how much further ahead the polish of your videos are than anything else I've seen on UA-cam.
Awesome video! Must've been a real challenge for the composers and the developers to come up with a reliable system for such a MASSIVE scope for Pikmin 4.
Yoo another pikmin music video. Love these. Not sure if it would be enough for an entire video, but I would love to see a video about how each of the pikmin main themes build on the previous ones!
ever since i got pikmin 4 on launch day i found the fact that each enemy had its own unique little song jingle so interesting that everytime i found a new enemy i would pause the game and turn the volune up to max to listen to it
TOP 3
3 BULBEAR
2 WADDLEQUAFF
1 BULBORB (when its awake)
i loved all of the 3d art you made in this one!!! excellent work as always, scruffy!!!!
Yayyyy new scruffy video :D
This definitely paints a better picture for how Pikmin 4's music was handled. While I do admire the amount of work and effort made to make the game's music system work, as stated in the video, the music is very ambient and minimalist as a result. So personally, I like Pikmin 4's music the least because the tunes and music from the older games are much more appealing to me.
I love your channel. I love your passion and the art that comes with it!
Hoh boy! Can't wait to watch a new Scruffy vid!
Man I love it when you make these types of videos, keep it coming! Your visuals are always so on point for what’s happening in the video that I’m always constantly engrossed with the video!
Such a great video, it's obvious how much effort you put into these vids
Aaaa this video was so nice! its lovely seeing you adopt more 3D visuals, they work really well. as im writing this i also noticed how you morphed Today's Results into the What I Love jingle, a wonderful touch :)
I love your work Scruffy.
Always excited to see you cover Pikmin again! Pikmin 4's soundtrack really is a technical marvel, even if, in my opinion, it never reaches the highs of Pikmin 3 because of how preoccupied it was with its massive amount of layering. That said, with my work on the Distant Planet, Pikmin 3's model is, has been, and will remain the golden standard - it's just such an elegant solution!
Great work on this video, as always!
Omg a Scruffy Pikmin music video
Ive never been this early for scruffy
Fantastic Video! I loved its presentation and I found all the music analysis really interesting! Its hard to think I never noticed any of this when I was playing through these games myself. Keep making great videos!
Sooo excited for a new video!!! I really love What I Love series, they are awesome. From the editing to the script, it is really well done. Amazing work!
I ADORE these types of videos from you!! Please take your time so you can make them all as lovingly made as this one
The game Copy Kitty uses a system similar to Pikmin 3’s, but it also crossfades the main track into different versions as you progress through a world.
Your visual effects and editing just get more and more impressive with each video! Fantastic job Scruffy!
always love a new upload, and that stereo channel audio sync trick is so cool!
I've been looking forward to your analysis since watching your playthrough! You have a great way of approaching this topic!
Thank you for this video!!!! It's my birthday today and the timing was perfect!
I am so happy to see this type of stuff
Scruffy, i seriously youre one of the best content creatos out there. Specially when talking about music and audio.
The quality of your videos always amazes me, this video had me in awe with your narration, editing, animation, 3d modeling and sound design. Youre amazing, hope you become even more succesfull!
This was so informative! I love every video of yours, and your animations/editing go perfectly to create a learning environment that fosters my love for music design. Keep it up!
What a wonderful, unique look for these videos. It's so nice to see how your style has evolved over the years, and yet has remained so charming and effective.
My favorite music teacher
It's this kind of superb-level editing and charisma that makes it worth the wait. Thanks Scruffy, love your content
Your production quality for editing and visuals is always so good but this video was on another level.
Scruffy out here producing some of my favorite niche video game music content on the entire internet. Been watching and listening to your arrangements and videos since before 100k subs! Congrats on 500k, and Im always looking forward to the new stuff you do. Thank you for being you!
1 minute ago was wild
NEW SCRUFFY UPLOAD LET'S GOOO
I have appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into your videos. This was so delightful to look at.
The editing on this is insane good job. Also it's fun to hear the nerd details of how it works i never knew about the stereo channels
(I like the enemy channels, but the slots are definitely giving you more things to work with... I've also only played 4 lol)
i love your videos so much! the visuals are satisfying and entertaining and you explain everything so well!!!
I always love your videos! So much more goes into these Pikmin soundtracks than I could ever imagine
I got so excited when I saw you had uploaded another Pikmin video! I love your work and analysis of these games so much - thank you for another amazing piece of work :p
Scruffy, your videos are so beautiful! From the artstyles and animations used, just down to the way you explain it to us neanderthals who know nothing about music! It’s always a joy to see what you make ❤
The effort in this video is insane. Thank you so much
Your deep dive videos always make my day. Keep doing what you do, dude.
This was great!
Wonderful video as usual, Scruffy. c:
OMG new scruffy! Always quality content!
Man, I'm so glad Scruffy's back at it again with Pikmin's music. It's what inspired me to continue pursuing music into uni and going into game dev!
SCRUFFYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII~ Thank you so much, your videos always make me happy when they appear in my feed!
You always provide such lovely, well made videos. A big part of my interest in art comes from this channel and i thank you for it.
I love the visual style of your videos and I'm always excited for another pikmin video :-)
Tysm, scruffy, for making such Amazing videos like this. You're the best
The presentation of this video, with all its models, is downright gorgeous. I'm so happy to be a Pikmin fan, getting to experience all this.
Great pikmin video one again. Your voice is always pleasant to listen to while learning some neat pikmin music quirks (:
Scruffy’s video’s are always candy to the eyes and ears, but OH MY GOD??? This video is beautiful?? Great work, Scruffy!
This is so insanely high quality. I don't know how you do it. In awe
Scruffy yet again bringing me new light to one of my favorite franchises, showing me again how much I love Pikmin in its entirety
Pikmin music is always great, and the adaptive nature is incredibly helpful once you are aware of it and pay attention to it because its always so detailed.
My favorite is probably pikmin 2's, i know people dislike midi tones, but as an electrical engineer who uas done a bunch if Fourier math by hand i love the concept of them, and i love the idea of the game composing its music on the fly. (Well technically its already been composed and the game is just scheduling notes, but it lets it change immediately instead of letting a file finish and enables the syncopation in the Louie versions of the tracks without having to record separate files)
Pikmin 3's 8 channel stereo files with a live orchestra are also incredibly clever and elegant.
And finally Pikmin 4's music is just so incredibly detailed with every enemy adding its own theme to the soundtrack. And its very flexible because theoretically any trigger could add another layer as desired.