The solution is a rapid restructuring of powersports companies, where design leaders are not boomers wanting to hear themselves talk about plungers to justify large paychecks, but younger people who value long-term growth over short-term profits and actually care about the industry. Example: I can't get too specific, but there are LOT of people who work in the marine industry that don't even like boats, yet somehow they've managed to control entire departments and affect decisions for the entire company. They don't know anything about boating, they don't go boating, and they get off on powertrips and micromanaging others because everyone knows they're compensating for having micropenises. These are the people making huge decisions that affect the future of these companies, and they even loudly exclaim they are only there for a paycheck. Why are they even still employed? Especially with multiple HR complaints against them? Why does corporate America protect people like this? Situation is completely ****ed, bro.
Tax the shit out of corporate dividens and incentivise reinvestment in the companies they operate. This will never happen in America because Gov'mint Bad.
This was a great take on this. He touched upon how you don't need all the bells and whistlesl to ride ,100% agree. The solution is easy but difficult all at once. Society has changed, we treat everything like our electronic devices, if it isn't the latest and greatest, it's junk. Snowmobiling is about getting out and enjoying the winter, not a status symbol
Ex dealers kid here. Dad sold sleds in the boom years of 1966-1973. With all the snow we had those years, the damn things sold themselves. Farmers used the Panthers to haul hay bales to cows. (PA). Ski Daddler made a monster 20 inch track width hauler to compete with the Ski Doo Alpine but it was better because it had two skis and could be turned around without a flight crew directing it. We sold a bunch of those too. Arctic has now shut down twice. 1981 bankruptcy and now next spring. Both times low snow years and losing track of what sells sleds. You don’t fire your brain trust or ignore what the end user is telling you. But these modern companies are slaves to shareholders immediate profits. And it’s a cancer that cuts across all industries. There are thousands of good people underemployed across this nation because of short sighted thinking. You nailed it. Great video.
My Old Man had a skidoo Alpine. The one ski in the front and the dual track in the back. He put it on its side a few times. Wish he hadn't sold it. It came with a yellow tilt trailer. There was also a sled to pull behind the snowmobile. It had leaf spring suspension. Lol
@glenmallory9982 Yep, those were the days. I was born in 1960 in NW Indiana and up to the mid to late 70's the winters were so cold and the snows so frequent, snowmobiles were everywhere every winter. A local lake 'Cedar Lake' froze over every year and the ice got so thick there would be car and motorcycle races on the lake. My little brother raced on the lake a few times, putting wood screws into the knobby tires of his Suzuki RM100 for traction on the ice. I owned a pair of snowshoes and would go snowshoeing every winter. We'd ice skate, sled, etc. Sometime after 1980 all those winter sports mostly ended.
I’m sitting here in NW Montana on New Year’s Day and we don’t have any snow on the ground to speak of. Got an inch or two yesterday. First time no white Christmas in probably 25 years. My son is in the snow sports business and he says their sales just completely shut down a month or so ago. Dealers are trying to sell last year’s left over models at steep discounts. How does the working man afford/justify spending$10,000 - $12,000 on an item that he may get to use a few times a year, depending completely on the amount of snow available? He has rent/mortgage, one or two car/truck notes, kids to feed, insurance, clothing, fuel, etc. He may also have a boat or camper to pay for. He would need a trailer for the machine and a place to keep it. And, he just may be in danger of losing his job, or maybe his wife losing hers. Inflation and uncertainty are powerful forces.
You nailed it on no entry level prices. When my local dealer wants $7500 for a kids sled, and $12000 for a 400cc, there's no way to introduce kids to the sport.
@@davidbrennan5 I fully agree. I can't understand why Yamaha quit making the Bravo. The R&D and tooling costs would have been paid for decades ago, there was probably no warranty claims ever so basically it was just the COGS and everything else was profit.
@@bruceh5933 You can't start a kid on a sled that does 90MPH+. They can't lift a 500lb machine. Older guys don't want a heavy machine either. This should be a family sport but everyone I see on the trails has grey hair and deep pockets. When I was 15, I cut grass all summer and bought a brand new Indy 500 for 5k. I don't think that is possible now. You could buy a nice Bravo long track for around $3500 brand new not that long ago.
You are correct- the entire powersports industry is in trouble. Everything from Snowmobiles to boats to trucks are so expensive the middle class can no longer afford them. Good thing I am old and can work on cars, boats, and snowmobiles, at least to a degree. I own a 2009 snowmobile, a 98 boat and drive cars from 2004. How can anyone justify a $80K truck. Its the whole system, prices for things have gone up X10 since the 70's while wages for most have gone up X3 or 4. Not even going into housing prices. Real hard to see how this is sustainable. No wonder every young person is scared for their future.
Im glad we sat by idly while paid-protesters pushed "the fight for $15", so that when inflation hit we could all make excuses as to what the real problems are and avoid addressing them before going belly up.
I think it really came down to 2 things above all. 1. Cost of entry and 2. Crappy winters the last 4-5 years. Nobody is going to pay $25 THOUSAND dollars for something they can’t even use.
Don't worry bro, the news channel I watch all day that tells me what to think, they told me that climate change is just a liberal agenda, they told me it's not real. It's fake news! I currently don't have anyway to think for myself, but I am threatened by smart people, so I am going to worship an orange idol who trolls smart people, and I'm sure he'll have a concept of a plan to fix everything. It will be great again!
@@ADDvanced I know you are a guy that wears your emotions on your sleeve, and thats fine. Thats part of why you make good videos. Such as this and others. That being said, you are better than posting stuff like this (the one I tagged you for). You know its never that simple and that raging against a straw man caricature thats not really real isnt any way forward for anyone, no matter what one believes.
@@GoldenCroclet me remind you how many times MAGA dipshits coughed at Sarah for wearing a mask while immunocompromised, or called me a f@@ for wearing one. I’m tired of their bullshit that believes feelings over facts.
I called it the day that Textron bought Arctic Cat. I was there at one of the dealers meetings they had all over canada. We were few hundred dealers from québec and ontario. When they announced that the off-road products will now be called Textron off-road product!! We all looked at each other and be like wtf??? All our customers thought we were selling Chinese products. 1 year after we received arctic cat decals to apply on atv and side by side. Then they reduced by alot the models that were available like example at one point there was no more a true touring sled. Textron really destroyed the brand, they should have stick to bell helicopter and Cessna planes lol, sorry for my English.
It wasn't even a year. Former dealer here myself. It was 6 months. Maybe in Canada it took longer, but here in the states it was six months. We BEGGED them, all of us dealers, to not do the name change. We told them what would happen. But the Georgia Southern arrogance of those EZGo folks ignored us. It was bittersweet watching them eat crow, but at that point the damage was done.
@@jefferyallguire4348 from 1968 to 1981 then employees and management purchased it from Textron because surprise surprise Textron was ruining the brand
Our country's first problem is that our business model of companies making money for shareholders rather than making great products and business models.
@@walkertonheights The problem is corporate america chasing short term profits, instead of long term strategy and growth. I stated it in my video. Because they value "profit" the C-suite roles, industrial design director roles, all of these positions have huge paychecks, and it attracts people that are motivated by nothing but money. The corporation winds up hiring these people with no real skin in the game; they don't care about boats/sleds, they don't care about the future of the industry in general, they just want their money. Until the people in change get kicked out, nothing will change. It's much like our government. Wealthy old people, hoovering as much money as possible from the rest of us.
You are absolutely right on this. I have finally given up on snowmobiling this year. It’s just costing too much to own one and only get out once or twice a year now. I’m from Canada and our winters are crap now in southern Ontario. And to travel to where the snow is just makes this even more expensive. With the financial situations people are in nowadays I understand why snowmobiling is in trouble.
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
The side by side market has probably done more to hurt the snowmobile market that anything. They can be used 90% of the year and take a large portion of the recreational use money.
Yeah, people bought tracks for their side by sides to drive in the snow. It's nicer for the older people and very young to have a warm cab and get use out of a machine they already own. My brother has a Ranger with tracks and it's not bad to drive. Snowmobiles are funner, but not enough to justify to own a newer one.
This is true. I bought tracks for my sxs and the wife and kids love it. You don't go anywhere fast and the performance fun factor really isn't there, but it gets USED. I still have a sled but I've sold theirs because they don't have any interest in it. The other option exists now where you're warm and don't have to wear all the other gear. Ands its useable year round.
I was an Arctic Cat guy all my life at 63 years old I now ride Polaris because the used market for Cats will tank and then no parts. When I was a kid I bought my first Cats delivering newspapers , you couldn't do this now, the global economy is killing everything just like 100,000 dollars for a new truck, everything is in big trouble including our future.
Fellow Wisco snowmobiler here. I feel your frustration. I’m 23 and am lucky to have a few friends that got me into snowmobiling a few years ago. We mostly ride old iron because anything newer is way too expensive to justify. Especially with these short to nonexistent snow seasons. I love the older stuff though, but you have to be mechanically inclined. In general, it’s a frustrating time to be a young person in America. My generation mostly can’t afford to get into hobbies like snowmobiling or boating. Those things are hard to justify with the price of housing and groceries being so high. Getting people my age to go outside is another challenge, but that’s a different topic. The American dream of owning a home and raising a family on a “middle class” income is dying quickly. Older people often just don’t get the reality of it. It’s sad to think how exciting and affordable the snowmobiling used to be for the working class. My group is always the youngest up north and we rarely see another group of younger guys. It’s depressing and I don’t see it getting any better. I feel for the businesses that rely on the sport. They are hurting really bad, especially after the lack of snow last year.
Hey man, I feel you, because I was in much the same situation 10-15 years ago. I'm not in much better of one now, but I would like to give you some advice for long term success, based on my experience, if that is okay. 1. Never finance a car. It is a depreciating asset. If you did already, sell it, get out of it. 2. Buy a cheap japanese daily driver with good MPG. I hate paying for gas, so I picked up a 2000 Insight, and I get 52mpg with snow tires, and 60-70 with summers. This car has paid for itself 3-4x, and allows me to drive longer errands for literally pennies. You can have a cool car too, but for your daily, a prius or insight are just incredible ways to save money. 3. Look for 'alternative' places to live. I rented a warehouse with a friend, we fixed cars in it, and we built illegal apartments in it. Our rent was like $400/month each, which allowed me to start saving cash much more quickly vs paying $1000+ in rent. 4. Buy property as soon as you can. Do not buy the nicest place in the crappiest area, buy the cheapest place in the nicest area you can find. I hope that helps, and keep up the grind. Cheers man!
Andrew..i feel you... but..i hope your voting! And your choice..not your parents..and hopefully your friends are too.In the 70s because of the war young ppl were active..i dont see that today.. unfortunate my generation screwed that up....let their get away with shit that shouldn't be tolerated
I’m a public company CEO and you are correct about focus on short-term profits. However you are incorrect in assuming this is motivated primarily by senior management. The pressure for this short-term focus comes almost entirely from active (not passive) investors like hedge funds and activists. They wield massive and outsized power over the board who they threaten with proxy battles and into forced management changes. We need SEC regulation to mute this impact so boards and management can stay focused on longterm value creation.
They are still family fun, nobody says you have to buy the most expensive snowmobiles, there are plenty of sleds just over $10 K or you can buy a used sled for under $10K and still have fun.
I agree, but in the 70s you did not have turbos, long tunnels, 3inch paddles. I road a arctic cat 8000 . Nothing like what we have today. That said, do they have to mark up the price of everything? Seems like EVERYTHING these days are over priced! And nothing last like it use to. Be blessed.
@@gregturnbow7089 I spring ordered a 2000 MXZ 700 for around $6,200 Everything is more expensive today and the sleds of today have way more technology and tech today. Cars, trucks, wave runners, boats, atv's motorcycles. everything is more expensive but you can by a New sled for around $10,000 if you don't need the the top models and features.
@@GreenCanoeb you can buy a New Arctic Cat for under $15,000 There is a sled and price range for everyone. Stop complaining about prices. If you don’t like it buy a used sled. Problem solved.
I have been a diehard arctic cat fan for over 50 years, I refuse to pay $30,000 for a new sled. It's all old school for me, I run sleds from the 1960's and 70's and have a great time for little money!
True in most types of equipment. I am a diehard Bolens garden tractor fanatic. Using them for 40 years now. A couple weeks ago I needed to repair a sprocket and chain on my 1980 garden tractor snowblower setup, all the while thinking maybe I should get a new one and I wouldn't have to do a little fixing. OMG 20 grand for a new small compact tractor that would do the same as what my 44 year old machine does.......NO WAY!. By the way, Bolens has gone the same way as Cat. Bought out by a large consumer products company and run into the ground. Although their trajectory went in the other direction. They went from making good quality simple long lasting equipment that was a once in a life long lasting investment to making cheap throw away junk.
My first brand new sled was a 1997 Z440. I bought it in 1998 as a left over. I paid $2800 for it if i remember correctly. I worked an entire summer and saved every penny i could. Last sled i bought was a 2004 Firecat F5 SnoPro. I paid $7200 for it. There is no way id buy a new sled. Its like the damn side by side market. $20k for a damn side by side. Its all crazy.
I can remember when snowmobiling was about exploring the outdoors with a large group of people, a dozen or more. Gone are the days when you looked for wildlife and cooked on the trail. Today is how many miles you can put on in day, basically a thrill ride !
There's no need to shut production down at Cat. There is a HUGE demand for PARTS for the sleds that were built in the past. There is so many sleds out there and a cult like following the people that built that brand need parts for the sleds they love. Would someone see this and recognize this demand from Cat and switch to produce parts that need to be made or maybe another company coming in and buying/managing it for future.
In 2008 I had a used arctic cat 900 long track that I never got comfortable on. I went to the arctic cat dealer to buy a brand new cat, after talking with the owner of the dealership about my dirt bike background he sent me to the skidoo dealer telling me the rev chassis was leaps and bounds better to ride. I went and bought the rev 800 that day and my riding improved 50% overnight. I’ve always appreciated his honesty. Very rare. I wonder if way back, if they had UA-cam we would hear the same sentiment from those watching the horseless carriage enter the scene. I’m 62 and one thing I’ve observed is change is inevitable, not always good or bad but inevitable. How we roll with those punches is how we define the value of what little time we have on this earth. I.E. money makes some good people do bad things, that I know also to be true.
I know many Cat guys that switched to Ski-doo in 2003 after driving a Ski-doo REV, they did not respond to that sled until 2012 (big mistake) and then Textron started denying warranty claims and they lost a lot of loyal customers and dealers to other brands that stood behind their products.
@@davidbrennan5 You're right on that, there was even a lawsuit between cat and BRP about the rev chassis, lol. Twinspar was awful though, totally designed by and for boomers.
I think Textron did them in. They used to be good at keeping most of their customers happy and innovating. Cat guys/gals were extremely loyal. They were too complacent, they upset their own fanbase and ignored trends. You don't even see Cats in the mountains anymore. Textron ran the company into the ground.
You almost took the words out of my mouth! I sold snowmobiles (Arctic Cat and Yamaha) in the 70's and 80's, in a an small, rural prairie market with at best inconsistent snow conditions. In fact, my first year in business was almost our last because of inability to move non-current stock. So 20-30 units per year was the most we could expect to sell. In 1985, after an almost snow less winter, and having about a dozen of our previous years 20 unit order left over, my AC rep came in, demanded that we place an order of 22 machines after I told him I'd order 6. He then threatened to give the dealership to someone else, so I took him up on his offer. The new guy kicked them out after 1 year, and there's been no AC dealer for 40 years! And the others have disappeared too as of recently. The snowmobile industry, much like every industry, has, as you say, succumbed to short term profit greed, and has never been realistic about the demand and future prospects for it's products. Harley is a perfect example, but even they are not the complete and utter expensive toy that snowmobiles have become! Every time I see a giant 4x4 truck with 1/3 of the machine hanging out off the tailgate, I think how ridiculously large and unmanageable they've become, and how few people can tote one around or store it, let alone afford it. CEO salaries based on quarterly profits, likely fermented in some delusional university professors den, have enriched a small minority of people, but have decimated and destroyed countless companies! I hope they're proud.
ASSCAR went woke. They are universal kit cars and have nothing in common with production cars like they did in the golden era. They ruined a great thing.
@@christophercurry7410 Woke is a dumb way to describe what you then specified. Nobody cares about v8 RWD tube framed race cars with a FWD V6 body on the top. That's why rally racing is superior, real cars, real roads.
@@christophercurry7410 Woke is good. Means your mind has expanded to see all sorts of perspectives. I'm WOKE af because I don't listen to the mainstream media brainwashing I mean news.
This is so sad. I'll never forget getting up Christmas morning, 1973, as a 12 year old kid and seeing the '74 Panther 340 that my parents had snuck home in the middle of the night. $1,500, which was an expensive machine at the time. I practically lived on that thing for several winters. It's still tucked away in a corner of a garage at the farm, complete with the scratches on the hood from the time I put it through a barb wire fence.
I believe much of what you're saying is correct. I especially like what you said about how blue collar, middle class people struggle, or flat out can't stay in this market because of the cost. I do mostly vintage as a hobby and like to ride them, but I was completely unaware that new sleds were going for $20K +. That's insane. Started thinking, what better time for someone to just become a DYI guy, find a late 90's early 2000's sled from whatever brand you choose and build it the way you want. Parts are readily available for the most part. I can completely rebuild an engine and go through the chassis of a late 90's Cat or Polaris and have a dependable trail sled for a fraction of what you pay now. And even if it don't snow for 2 seasons, so what? It'll still be there when the snow comes back and I didn't have to trade up and fork over another $15K. It's ridiculous to me.
You're exactly right dude I own nothing but old stuff I can't afford anything new my oldest sled is a 91 Polaris 500 SKS the newest one is a '97 Polaris ultra SPX and then I got a 91 RXL '96 Polaris xcr600 and I run them all throughout the year even if there's no snow I'll go out there and fire one up and let it run just to keep things fresh and moving when things are sitting and not moving that's when shit tends to happen.
64 year old guy here. I think a lot changes when companies go from private/family owned to publicly traded. Roseau or Thief River Falls, Minnesota, have vastly different perspectives than NYC/Wallstreet. CEO's with the board of directors in their back pocket, golden parachutes when they drive companies into the ground, etc.
This makes me so sad. My grandpa bought a brand new 71 Artic Cat Panther to have at his retirement home in northern WI that we rode a few times. My immediate family never had snowmobiles but I always longed to have one. We grew up in the 70’s with a Scorpion dealer right next to our small subdivision in East Central WI where we would hang out on winter days. Back then in the golden era of snowmobiling folks drove sleds all over the place from one farm field to the next. Everyone had one and there was plenty of snow. Great memories of a now a by-gone era.
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to put this together. Some very valid points as far as I'm concerned. Short-Sighted ness and corporate greed. A big problem all over. Thanks again for posting.
I was a motoski and then skidoo dealer and mechanic ,I HAD ONE OF THE FIRST 50 formula mx pro stocks , i last purchaced a new machine in 94 , i drew the line at ten thousand dollars , for a 3 month at most sport a year , i now have three old beaters a 89 mx a 91 mx x and a 98 formula deluxe ,they still run fast ,are reliable ,and cheap to run and maintain , i think retro will be the future of snowmobiles , there appeal to me was when they lost there hood and windshields , they became cold to ride, and with the massive suspensions ,they were just sit and steer things ,you no longer rode , if you did it was over a hundred mph. ,remember trail speed limits are 30 , and its kind of sad you talking to a former racer , the tec. needs to go back 25 yrs. and the price needs to go back under 6 grand for the sport to survive .
You hit The nail right on the head. I’ve experienced this in all facets of corporations in North America. There are absolutely 100% concerned about their quarterly profits. and have zero long-term vision. It is scary to know how many companies are run this way.
heck ya I love how your not afraid to say it how it is. new sub over here. hopefully things can turn around for the better. not looking great but gotta keep positive. still going to keep my 1972 cat in the family rippin
To keep that 72 cat running all it requires is maintenance that's it keep it in the garage and keep it maintained and it will run forever if you neglect it keep it outside it's probably junk already.
@@nightrider6769 100 % I definitely keep up well on maintenance and it spends every night in the shop. I have a few vintage race sleds as well gotta keep them nice and preserved.
Extremely well said. As a former Arctic cat owner, this was hard to believe for me. I had really good luck with all my sleds and it’s a total shame to see this go down.
14 years ago I sat at a table with Cat Polaris & Yamaha in Grand rapids MN and talked about the future of snowmobiles @ that time I told them they had no entry level sleds . so familys could enter in snowmobiling didn't need to be a big HP sled most of the snowmobilers started out on 340 or maybe 440 if lucky and didn;t trail rider they put miles on , after school and weekends ! Then they gave me that the average snowmobiler has a income of $40 to $50K a year and spends $1,000 a weekend and thats market they want to sell to ! And this was 2010
Every company came out with an entry level sled, and every one of them lost money, on them because no one would buy them, they would rather buy the fully loaded turbo
I agree 100%. The hype of having the most expensive sleds has a serious hold on people though. I see people as all the time what's a good GPS setup on the cheap for their sleds. And 90% of the people say "7S". And they all claim it's worth it over a $150 setup. The 7S is $1,200 to add it! No that's not worth it! If you get a deal on a sled with it sure, that's more worth it. But to put that into perspective I bought a 2024 XC 850 for $13,500, with the storm track and a 2nd year of warranty. I have a Garmin drive50LM GPS, my own mount and wiring to charge it. Total that cost about $120 with trail maps. I also added the big storage bag, a handlebar pad, tunnel ice scratchers, mirrors, heated shield plug, rail stiffeners and a whole wrap for about $1,200! The peer pressure to spend more more more is insane in this industry. Lower powered sleds as a solution is tricky. I used to work at a Polaris/Arctic Cat and I'll tell you the top end models sell the fastest. The lower powered and lower trim sleds need to be cheaper. And obviously they could since they are selling those mid tier sleds for $12k. How I know that Textron doesn't care if the fact that they are closing it up immediately after they get the new chassis and engine out. These sleds are selling! But this is Textrons plan the whole time. Because why would a company spend all that money on a new products tooling, R&D, and not even ATTEMPT to make a return on that investment? This is Textrons plan and it always has been. When they owned Polaris in the 80s they did the same thing. Hopefully someone buys Cat and can give it the soul it deserve and they can make it work.
Grew up with Cat and sledding. Issue for me is hardly any snow cover for riding. Now I need to travel for sledding. Back in the day I just drove out my WI garage. Since I can ATV all year a sled is near useless today. But you are right about short term profits but I think the no snow means no go for sledding.
Totally agree about the weather. I am in Wisconsin as well (LaCrosse area) and the so-called "winters" around here ... for lack of a better term ... SUCK! You could say that I am nearly obsessed with snowmobiling, so the lack of REAL winters is hard to deal with. My two sleds are more trailer queens than riders, but I am still having tons of fun with them the few times I DO get to ride.
I originally had a part where I touched on climate change, but I thought I'd be pushing it so I clipped it out. I did a whole separate video about it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.htmlsi=6PBlxEMFddG3yvZv
@@NJP76 Janesville, WI., and I think we get even less snow! The city of Janesville used to flood skating rinks, but they gave up on it 10-12 years ago because it was too warm to freeze.
You F'-ing nailed it bro. I watched my company (and others) put on blinders and only look at short term goals. When a company places shareholders over customers there's a problem.
I started riding my own sled in 1966. Went through Yellowstone Park in 1967. Coulter Bay to West Yellowstone with my father. Raced Ovals, Cross Country. It was a wonderful childhood. All Cat.
You're absolutely right and it's everywhere and in everything. It's a very complicated issue but the growth over sustainability mindset has been created by the acceleration of technological innovation in some sectors creating standards applied to unrelated fields. Short term growth drives everything because it sustains stock prices and investor interest and that supports the salaries of the upper tier executives it becomes toxically delusional eventually eg. Bud Lite.
Former AC line worker here. AC and their management, supervisors and leads ran out all the employees who gave a crap about quality. The local management is 100% to blame for the falier of the company. Texron just kept them afloat until they realized that with the same people in charge, nothing much would change. Add higher prices and a warranty that is like having no warranty at all, is a recipe for falier. I hate what is happening to our town, but screw AC and their leads, supervisors and managers.
"They realized that with the same people in charge, nothing much would change." This is a huge problem at a lot of companies, including my own. You can try to change it , and we sure as hell have tried, but you can only do so much because you don't have the authority and your hands are tied. So you either deal with it, or leave and hope you don't end up in the same situation at another company.
Can only speak for northern New England... but man, the absolute lack of snow over the past 4+winters (and this one is looking to be similar) has to account for some of it as well... left over new sleds from last season, clean used sleds on the market from folks tired of looking at them or aging out (hello Harley..). It's a shame all around really...
@350mack central VT here... happy to have some acreage to skid wood with on with my Tundra... VAST is now full of folks on 850s that have no business on 125s; trail riding is a luxury at this point.
@@andrewgagner2927 i guess im more central than north but have a camp in averill Vermont. Same thing. They buy or rent the biggest sled and 9/10 they crash
South central Vermonter here. We sold expensive sleds like 5 years ago when I saw the writing on the wall. Now we just run mid to late 90’s sleds and we have just as much fun on a fraction of the price. You both are correct. The huge amount of flatlanders has killed snowmobiling in VT
I agree with you, buddy. I am a paraplegic who likes to ride snowmobiles, ATVs, and pickup trucks down the dirt roads to great hunting spots. Over the past few years, things have gotten so expensive that I can barely afford to pay my bills, and that is it. I am in a position where I will be needing a new to me pickup truck. The prices have gone through the roof. I am looking at something 5-6 years old that already has 100K on it, and they still want 30K for that. Being disabled, I need something reliable, and something with 100K may last a few years, but then I will have to start dumping money into it. It is all designed for the wealthy these days. I sadly am not one of them. Disabled people do not have a lot that they can do as it is, and now they are taking most chances for us to enjoy what we have left of life and destroying that as well.
You are spot on about short term corporate thinking. A second point is that Where I live , Toronto the snowmobile season is now about 3 to 4 weeks per year on average. when I bought my first 1970 panther the season lasted from early December to late march. Hard to justify spending so much for such a short season.
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
Growing up in upstate New York in the seventies and eighties (riding a Kawasaki Invader) there was so much snow we could ride the roads all season. I sold my Polaris sleds two years ago because unless you head to the Hill (which most of us avoid) or the central Adirondacks, both of which requires trailering, you ain’t riding. We now live in the southern tier and my neighbor hasn’t ridden in three years. The price point of sleds is so whacked you can’t justify the purchase. I will add that in my mind when you mention snowmobiles, the first vision that comes to mind are Cats. All my friends had Cats. Damn shame it’s coming to an end, again. God bless those employees.
I live in Alaska and have been waiting for snow sense 1991 it never comes. Last year it finally snowed 3 feet in one night and my newer 2005 polaris with 200 miles on it had the injectors fail wont run:( and parts are not available so i go out in the woods were my collection of 1999 xc 700s are that have not ran sense 2005 with a flat head screwdriver and fresh gas shes fires up. Why would i pay 30k for a sled that wont work at -40 or without parts changing.
@@bearbait2221exactly. I'm so glad my ski doo is carburetor. I went to start it this fall and the carb had a stuck float. Took me an hour and the carbs were clean and she was running sweet again. I thought to myself I'm so glad this wasn't an etech with an injector issue it would have been a $$$ trip to the stealership
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
Lots of good points here. One thing I think should be said regarding college is that govt sponsored loans are likely the reason college here is so freaking expensive. Quick google search shows college tuition in the US is on average (which admittedly can be skewed, I don't see median numbers) nearly twice as expensive as most other western countries. Universities have been emboldened by the feelings of necessity, plus the loans that no private institution would ever hand out that they can just keep charging whatever they want and people (though decreasingly so) will pay up no matter what. Admin costs at many colleges is 3x the actual teacher payroll, what the hell is that? Why do colleges have rock gyms now? The rock gyms and other frivolous amenities are the heated everything, in this scenario ( 6:06 ). I don't even know how you fix this without everyone refusing to apply. But like you said, some fields necessitate a college education. All I know is things are only going to keep getting worse before they get better.
Same brother. Those are all valid points; but end of the day entire generations are basically being put into legal slavery. They will never start a family, own a home, just rent forever, and paying hundreds of month to student loan companies with overpaid CEOs and executives. The federal government should handle ALL student loans, and make everything 0% interest to encourage education. We are already in a cold war with other global superpowers, we are directly competing with them and we need to stay on top instead of becoming a nation of uneducated 'consumers'. We need more creators, and people that are passionate about building things, not just chasing a paycheck. I'm sick of the rich pitting white collar vs blue collar against each other. WE ARE ALL WORKING CLASS. I respect CREATION, whether it be with your hands or designing parts on a screen. I do NOT respect the current culture of corporate america, with dick swinging egos and toxic motherFrs being put in positions of power because they crave power instead of being passionate about the industry they are working in. It's all a joke, and the problem is the boomers running these companies; they're just greedy pieces of ****.
@@ADDvanced The school's are adding little benefit to society and their cost structure is beyond obscene. Education is more about creating a massive contingent of govt employees than anything related to learning. The reality is that half of the population lacks the innate ability to perform true high school material. College should be reserved for likely just 10% of the population. We have bastardized schooling and lowered standards to the point that even masters and doctoral degree mean nothing.
College costs can be managed by picking a degree that supports a well paying career that is in demand. My kids all held multiple jobs,got credits online when they could and got out in 3 1/2 years. Three kids tuition and auto debt free and homeowners by 30. Nurse, Benifits consultant and PT.
@@bt9653sure. But is it better for society if I pay $7k a year to a for profit student loan company that provides nothing of value, to society? Or is it better if I spent $7k a year on local contractors improving my house, or buy another sled, or spend some time up north spending money at businesses up there? People have only a finite amount of money. It can pay back their loans, with idiotic interest, and benefit like 5 people, or that wealth could be spent in the local economy/on goods and services that will benefit a LOT of people.
@@winningwithoutracing7811 You are wrong on so many things, I'm not even going to bother. Who do you think designed the car you drive? The phone in your pocket? Your appliances in your kitchen? Your power tools? The network system in your house, the network system across the country. It wasn't trades people, bro.
You are spot on with what you said. Large equity companies that have no idea about an industry trying to squeeze every last penny out until it’s too late then selling off the company. I have riding sleds since I was six and was a cat man for years until cat fell off the cliff. I have owned 30 plus sleds in that time and I’m probably getting out of the sport.
You're totally on point and I feel your frustration. The industry has slowly been going off the cliff for over a decade. The price of everything in the power sports industry is so out of reach for the working class. I mean, who spends 30k on a SXS? I don't know what the solution is either. Give it time and hopefully the industry will sort itself out?
Getting the boomers OUT of the decision making process way up top in the corporate world. They are out of touch, a lot of them don't even own boats or sleds, they are just there for a paycheck.
@ADDvanced Sadly this is a current problem across many industries. Tenured leadership becomes stale and out of touch. I think it's always best to have younger blood with more energy in higher positions. Unfortunately there's no clear way to have boomers ousted besides waiting for them to age out.
I am a retired Industrial Designer. I rose to executive engineering ranks in a huge multinational corporation. The problem does manifest in short term profit orientation by executives as you have observed, but they can only do so much and greed is everywhere. The problem is that the wealth of the US has been greatly diminished due to the persistent, large and long lasting trade deficit in combination with high defense spending. The wealth is now in China and other countries that have a persistent trade surplus to us, they now have our money. America has become a poor hollowed out country but doesn't know it. The largest segment of wealth loss is from the middle class laborers. Those workers were also consumers, and they bought recreational equipment, cars, houses and trucks with their relatively high paying union jobs. Those jobs still exist and still pay really well, but they are not in the US, they are in the countries we buy our stuff from. Most middle class people today are in some way compensated for by the goverment. Interestingly, the trade vultures that have siphoned American wealth are dependent on the US navy for safe trade lanes. This will soon come to an end.
Right on! Did you check out my work at www.gruvdesign.com? What'd you think? I agree with you. The 1% sold out our entire country for short term gains.
Arctic cat has been in trouble for many years now. Still sad. Yamaha has tones of money and they dipped too. I went into local dealer for dirt bike parts with my kid and said this is an easy way to blow $20 grand. The guy was so arrogant he said “It’s a lot more than that”. With a smug look on his face. A thunder at sitting all year in the showroom in March. I think imma go ask him where he’s going to be working next year. The dealers are arrogant, they cost more than a new car. I can remember buying Mach Z’s for $12,000. That was the most expensive ski-doo except the grand touring. Lots of really sleds were $7500. 380 Formula S were like $4000. Now they’re $30,000. Almost as much as a new pickup truck.
$23;000 not $30,000 for the top of the line model. Lots of good deals on leftovers at my Local cat dealership right now Riot 8000 for little under $13,000. Lots of goos deals out there on used sleds. The bottom line is it’s never been easy. But if u want to ride u just do it been doing it with a poor man’s wallet my entire life.
This was a great video, good points. aLmost lost me when you said BRP was socialist but glad I stuck around lol. All these companies jacked prices through the roof during covid and people were mostly willing to pay. Now sales numbers are cooling down but prices have stayed high. In Canada a new 850 is in the 25k ball park. Before covid only a SideWinder topped 20K. The prices we're paying are insane but these companies refuse to go back to pre covid profit margins.
The only people 'willing to pay' were boomers, and they blew their last load on sleds, UTVs, and pontoon boats. There will be a massive crash with so much supply coming back onto the used market very shortly.
I was at a Polaris / KTM dealer when Victory got the axe. Been through it! Sad to see Cat go. It's a sign of the times, though. Who the heck can afford these things now a days..? They're so expensive... for years in the industry I could hardly afford to go riding myself. It wasn't until I got to the level of getting a demo unit that I could, but then I was so damn busy I hardly used the thing...
I saw it after 27 years in the Automotive retail business from service parts and new car sales. The businesses are all being run by the bean counters and 96 percent that are running the corporate world have never actually sold a product or worked from the bottom to the top. Some of the most successful companies 100 years ago that lasted the teams running the business focused on the customer and how to make their product the best in the business. They knew by working the basics it would eventually payoff. The business Corporate mindset doesn’t think that way anymore and the CEO’s can be over paid and go elsewhere in a couple years with a big fat paycheck
Im 62, grew up driving a snow cruiser and and Evinrude. Lived in rural Canada and we all snowmobiled all winter. Some of my best childhood memories where on a sled. Eventually, I got a Polaris Indy 500 classic and drove it into the ground. Where I live, Its bee Polaris and Ski Doo for years. Yamaha had its die hards and they where reliable, but took a weird design turn and ...anyway, I never know anyone that drove an Arctic Cat and the few that tried spent all winter in the shop fixing stuff. All that said, I find it very sad that brands are quitting. I grew up with Rupp, Skiroule, Kawasaki, john deer, massy ferguson, Alouette, Snow cruiser, Johnson, Moto Ski, Yamaha, Ski Doo, Polaris and I'm likely forgetting some. Down to two .... but 30 grand for a sled did this.
America is loosing at the game it started our greed got the best of us and we have had it so easy for so long that we have become complacent and lazy and weak
I agree with all your main points. I wonder if there is an issue getting four stroke engines now. We need some snowmobiles that are small enough to ride around in the yard and the field next door. oil shocks, small suspension, dial speedometer
Keep going on this route....China and Russia WILL call the shots on the global stage. They are long term planners and thinkers while corporate America is too worried about the next quarter profits
Mechanical engineer here. I was the president of the clean snowmobile SAE competition (very cool worth a google search) during my time in school. We designed and build our own diesel sled from an Arctic Cat chassis. My first job offer was with arctic cat in Minnesota. It was my dream job but I didn’t take it cause I couldn’t take the burden of working for a corporate giant like textron that doesn’t care about their employees. I was worried a few bad winters would have us all layed off. Well turns out that’s exactly what happened, and the people who moved to thief river and bought homes are completely screwed because of a decision happening in a board room hundreds of miles away. Shame on them.
Nailed it! Even look at the muscle cars of the 60s and 70s, they tried to keep them affordable for young men, now only the big money people can afford the modern day copies.
69 chevelle was just over $3k, which would be $25k today. That would be $25k for the exact same car, not a modern equivalent. No ac, manual windows,manual locks, no power anything, vinyl bench seats, am only radio, points ignition, carb, 8 mpg, bias ply tires, steel wheels with hub caps, etc.
And now GM is discontinuing the Camaro, I had a 76 rally sport,350 4bbl carb,4 on the floor, posi traction,no air or power windows,am radio but it was a sweet ride,ordered it $5431.00 with the tax.
When you first started talking about the demise of snowmobiling, I immediately thought of Harley Davidson.......funny you mentioned them later on in the video. The industry should have focused more on 340s, 440 and 500s while trying their best to keep costs down. That would be a way to keep "Families" on tracks and skis.
I must have read a different letter than everyone else. Filling the 2025 orders, suspend manufacturing operations indefinitely and the key, "exploring strategic alternatives regarding the future of the powersports business." I don't know about everyone else before throwing in the towel but this smells like CFMoto who is a rising star in the Powersports ATV/Side by Side game with a great price and product and good warranty that know the market and seem to be youth appealing. I will be optimistic AC sleds will find a home. But man we need a good winter or two!
You are actually spot on. Textron only looks at quarterly profits and stock prices and never had a long term plan or commitment with AC. They can get away with some of that when it comes to aircraft and golf carts that don't change in 20 years, but it does not work in an industry as competitive as powersports.
I owned Artic Cat,Polaris, Skidoo and Yamaha. Got out of it because we just don't get snow anymore like we did in the 70's and 80's even the 90's. Sleds got expensive why make 10 months of payments for a sled to sit get a atv ride it 10 months out of the year. We'll problem happened many years ago no place to ride them anymore unfortunately its not the 70's 80's lots of open land and trails. At least here in Massachusetts.
Your video covered everything from cars to homes to Healthcare to cell phones. Almost no large companies are run by anyone with a long-term connection so it's get rich quick and run from the wreckage.
Hey Rob, Merry Christmas to you and Sarah. Besides boats I too have loved Sleds most of my life. Have had newer ones but always end up going back to what I grew up on and having more fun on them. Hope you two have a great new year!
@@ADDvanced Yes was one of our roughest Lost someone close like you did and a few others, not to mention T boning someone that turned in front of me on one of my 82 naked goldwings in September. It put all my boat and snowmobile projects on hold after retiring in may. 2025 has to be much better.
Never watched a vid of yours but couldn't have said it better myself. Grew up with my father owning a Yamaha dealership and have a love for Yamaha sleds/mx bikes.....now there's no more Yamaha sleds. Now arctic cat too??!! Makes me sick
Good video, I agree wholeheartedly. Things are getting too expensive and there's less and less disposable income for many people. The people that buy sleds are an increasingly fewer but wealthier segment of the population and they DO want the latest and greatest. More power, more creature comforts, lighter, faster. The problem is these people are getting fewer and farther between. These companies should be focusing on keeping costs low and innovating at the same time. As you said, Harley is a perfect example.
I talk about the ridiculous prices of snowmobiles every year!! Same with pick up trucks. Loaded with every piece of technology no one needs just to jack the price up. When I was growing up in the early 2000's you could buy a brand new snowmobile for around $5-6000.
You could literally say that about any product ever produced. Government ineptitude and corruption is a different conversation. You can read how economics works on the internet for free. Ever consider people like technology and happy are to pay for it? The good news is you don’t have to buy any of them. What a great country
Some sleds were that price in the 2000's, not all. And lots of people are running long term financing/borrowing $80 to $100K+ Canadian for new trucks. In the early 2000's a new decent loaded truck was how much? I believe what you are pointing towards is the market may be more appealing if sleds were in a lower price range, with less conveniences. A truck s practical and 12 months of year use. But no one wants wind up windows, push button locks, am/fm radio, no AC and 2 wheel drive anymore. No longer practical. With sleds Its "winterkill" on the market with a lot of Northern US and Southern Canada not having the continued snowfall. Combine with paying insurance for a whole year on a sled by most insurers required. And almost not far off $300 for a trail permit to ride trails for a couple days or weeks here and there and the gear to go with it. Not practical Even without a GPS, digital speedo, tach, gauges, LED headlights, heated seat, etc. ATV/SXS are a good 8 - 10 months use, and are practical. But the market for SXS has all sorts of options from heaters, doors, rooftops, stereos etc etc and the prices have crept up because buyers want the conveniences with the practicality. Still practical tho based on user time alone. The sled price is not great for sure for that type of limited use now a days. And not everyone has a trailer and truck and can take days off work to chase snow up north. Not to mention water powersports getting one about 5 months use and Motorcycles 5 to 7 months use. Relatively practical. Sledding is no longer a practical hobby for 3 or 4 weeks over a winter. Or for 2 months in more predictable snowfall regions. I've been sledding since late 70's and i am not bound by a brand as I've had them all. Even if one buys a new sled today for $10 to $15k it still isn't practical. I don't buy another new sled as i put that money into a ATV or toward a side by side all day long. For certain of one thing tho if Cat isn't bought up by a CFMoto or they have a resurgence as a stand alone again with Gov't $ to keep them afloat. The used sled market will be on fire.
I learned to snowmobile when I was five years old on a 1961 Rupp in Minnesota. As I grew older I started dirt biking and snowmobiles less and less. But I watched the market because my dad used to go buy a huge trailer full of sleds at the factory, upgrade them for durability, and supply my uncles with sleds the broke down less often. Eventually some of his mods would start making it into the next year's sleds, the industry started watching my dad. People loved the trailers that he built too. Decades passed, sleds got faster. I rode dirt bike up in Akeley, MN in the Paul Bunyan State Forest. All of the sudden all the cool snowmobile trails in the forest dried up because the sled got fast and the bar hoppers bailed on the trails, opting for the forest roads. Shortly after that Minnesota slapped a 55mph speed limit on the snowmobiles. That was crazy in a state that built so many of them. When I would ice race motorcycles the snowmobilers would hang out and sometimes complain that we could go as fast as we wanted while they were limited to 55mph. I couldn't blame them. You can go as fast as you want on a Minnesota lake in a boat during the summer. But the sleds were limited. My take on the snowmobile industry is that they failed to make good trail sleds in favor of rocket sleds. They killed the trails that kept the speeds down simply by their very nature. I loved those old trails and the sleds that favored them. But the industry decided to go fast, at least at first, because America is all about big numbers and any idiot can hold it wide open and blast down a lake or river. Radar runs became popular. So as the ADD sits on his heavy fast sled that would have a tough time in the now forgotten trails. I have to wonder if the industry would have built sleds that kept the fun trails fun if maybe they wouldn't be in the trouble that they are in now. And boy would there be some cool sleds on offer that could shred the tight trails of snowmobiling in its infancy. I started riding ATVs when the ATC90 was the hot ticket. Look and the leviathans now and what they are doing to the trial systems. I'll stick to dirt biking. They newest trails in Minnesota up near Two Harbors and actually tighter than in the past and Triumph and Ducati and jumping in to the dirt bike market. We dirt bikers my have a reputation for being Neanderthals. But unlike Neanderthals, we might just outlive the enthusiasts of other types of motorsports. I live in New Hampshire now. The poor snowmobilers there hardly get any winter at all anymore. Minnesota had a crap winter last winter as well. It takes forever for the ice on the lakes in NH to get safe enough to plow an ice race track. You're lucky if you get a month out of the darn thing if you do. I go out west and ski all winter now. I'll be hitting the slopes in an hour or two. My Duluth buds were going to buy a few new snowmobiles last year and they were really happy that they held off. Some of those guys come to ski with us, particularly last winter. Good luck snowmobilers. I still get out once in a while when someone lends me a sled. But really. I kind of wish the trails were tighter and the sled were lighter. There are way too many trails where all you do is pound whoops at speed for a mile or two at a time.
You're correct.... BUT..... the suspension travel on newer sleds is pretty fantastic, when it comes to trails that aren't maintained very well, which is literally most of them near me. IF they open. But this is why I have aircooled Yamaha Phazers. SO FUN! Light, simple, and your body english matters.
@@ADDvanced They were a step in the right direction. But instead of getting lighter with better suspension over time they gained a hundred pounds, over 25%. Not necessarily my idea of a bright future.
The Canadian government loans to BRP was not for the off road portion of company but for the aviation and train part. The two are completely separate from each other However unfortunately BRP discontinued Evinrude outboards and that really sucks! I feel your frustration
My dad built some of the first skid frames, my grandma use to sew Artic Cat snow suits, another uncle worked on early sleds and one other uncle races Artic Cat and is in the Snowmobile Race Hall of Fame.
This is a brilliant editorial. The best thing that our politicians could do is promote educational loans at zero percent interest. Following World War II, the G.I., Bill, which also promoted higher education, put our national economy on a springboard into the future.
A.I. and bots are creating a new boom for blue collar occupations. College is not the answer for many. We have to rethink traditional protocals, could very well be a waste of money.
But they won't, because they are all paid off. Instead they'll just barely show up to their jobs, make empty promises, and try to appeal to dumb people to get votes.
Holy crap you nailed it on all fronts. I'm a retired 67 year old Machinist/Engineer/Manager with 45 years experience. I've seen this first hand. I'm glad you pointed out it's not a Biden thing but it will be a Trump thing if they follow his Terrif ideas. I have a 1980 Arctic Cat Panther air-cooled,leaf spring, light weight that works perfectly the way snowmobiles should be. You're also exactly right about Student loans not to mention all loans that are designed with all the interest stacked in front so you just can't get ahead. Just Sub'd.
You are 1,000% correct. Unfortunately most everyone likes to turn this into a political conversation, instead of just looking at actual facts. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. That’s not politics, that’s just truth.
Some good points and observations. I dropped 16k 13 months ago on a new snowmobile. It hasn't left the garage. In the 60' and 70's we'd get plenty of snow in central/southern Minnesota. Not anymore. We understood this, and figured we could always go north an hour or two, but this really hasn't been the case so far. Snowmobiles were $1400 or so in '75, which would be $8500 or so now with inflation adjustments. But modern technology, engine, suspensions etc have added thousands. Investors demand ROI, and companies are expected to perform. Not sure what the answer is.
Man very well said!! You made a lot of sense I mean a lot. I live in northern Minnesota basically the birthplace of Polaris and Artic Cat. You’re exactly right with the corporate greed exactly right. The same thing with Harley. Both industries are not attracting new young customers at all. Way to expensive
The Leadership is ALLLLL corporate boomers that want big paychecks; they don't even like the industry and they will gladly lead these companies to failure as long as they can keep getting giant paychecks.
Mechanical Engineer here with an MBA(in MN) and I did a financial analysis papers on Arctic Cat, Polaris, and HD in 2016. Submitted AC would go bankrupt within the year, which they did, and I had worked with Textron in the past. Polaris won't be far behind. It's the same across the board as you said in other words, but it's true. Laugh at the overflowing lots of trucks from all of the big 3, nobody can pay that unless it's a business tax write off!
AI has basically ruined the industrial design job market, thinking about getting an MBA since it seems like being a blood sucking parasite full of BS will never get replaced by AI. Thoughts?
We lived in Minnesota west of the Twin Cities. Every year on January one the temp would drop to30 below Fahrenheit. My little sister moved to Kalamazoo Michigan. She said she didn’t like it. It was too warm for her.
@@ADDvanced ...and in my opinion, the lack of REAL winters is a big part of what is killing off snowmobiling. I am in Wisconsin and am an avid snowmobile enthusiast. Indeed the greed factor is definitely there, but as has been stated before, who wants to buy (at today's prices) a machine that will just be a trailer queen. I ride older iron for several reasons, not least of which is the cost factor. Being almost obsessive about snowmobiling, I sometimes even question the sanity of having two (or even one) sleds around when I MIGHT get to use them two or three times in a so-called "winter". Putting weather aside, the lack of true entry level machines is another factor that I see hurting our sport. You can't (or at least shouldn't) put a kid on a 130+ HP sled and expect a good experience. I may be all wrong on this, but I think that if someone came up with a simple little one lunger fanner for beginners, it would sell quite well. And what about the trappers and ice fishermen who don't want to rip across a lake at 100+ MPH? I realize that is a small part of the motorsports market, but nonetheless I feel like we need someone to fill that void. Of course there are a lot of older machines out there that fill these needs (wants), but the operative word here is older. Yes, I LOVE the older iron. I love riding them. I even love wrenching on them. BUT these machines are getting harder to find. Plus finding parts for them in many cases is unobtanium. From my point of view, we need to have REAL winters again (which we have no control over) and we need to get the cost of these machines into a more affordable range. And let's see some simple beginner machines. I think those factors would go a long ways in helping to save our dying sport. Sorry, I kind of jumped on a soapbox here. I just feel passionate about our sport, even as I watch it dying off. A am, and always WILL be an avid snowmobile enthusiast. Even though we don't have real winters anymore, I still love to get out for a rip or two any time I can. Nothing better than an afternoon ride on the trails...when we have the snow to actually ride.
This is the most spot on, direct to the point video I have seen on this subject. America is falling fast due to corporate greed! Never been a cat fan but you make me wanna trade in my ski-doo’s now lol. I did get my son a z370 this year. Now if we could just get a winter back in Wisconsin…
Nice video. I retired from Polaris in march 2024 after 18 years. Without a doubt the snowmobile market is in trouble an has been for at least 8 years. You made many good points about the industry. No one builds what the average person can aford. Just Waite The auto industry is not far behind.I want to end with Our first sled was a 1968 Fox trac.It makes me sad to see this happen to Arctic Cat. I don't think is going to stop with Arctic Cat.
I live in Northern Michigan. We Set records for snowfall a couple weeks ago. 46.3 inches In two days, then another 20+ I inches,twice. Almost 100 inches so far. It rained all day Today and we have maybe 6 Inches on the ground. This has Been a pattern for the last 4 years. Our town used to be a Snowmobile mecca. It's pretty sad. I have two sleds and they Probably won't come off the trailer this year. Say hello to the future.
@@billbertagnoli4226 I live in Michigan too and I feel your pain. You have to be ready to ride when the hits, because you can count on it being gone in week.
I live in Ontario, I burned maybe 10 gallons of fuel last winter. I didn't even burn 5 gallons yet this year. We had this before though, early 80's were bad then we got good snow in the late 80's early 90's then late 90s's were bad then early 2000's got better and mid 2010's were excellent now we are back to bad winters since 2022 or so. I think it is just wind patterns, you need the North Polar vortex winds to get cold and snow.
@@ADDvanced We are in an El Niño, this is expected to last through 2024, same thing happened in 1997-1998. I was snowmobiling in the rain in February. In the early 80's we literally had no snow, this is a pattern. If you look at climate data during the turn of the century the world was actually hotter, this data doesn't support the global warming narrative. Cut down an old tree and you see some years had good growth and some didn't. The Canadian government omitted 100 years of temperature data from their climate change models.
My dad bought a ski-doo back in the day, it had one cylinder, and we had more fun with that machine. You would not believe it. I have so many memories pulling a toboggan on the lake with that machine, we had a blast. Back in 1970 my dad bought a 634 moto ski snowmobile. That was the fastest snowmobile I ever rode, I never found out how fast it went, never opened it up. The last snowmobile my dad bought was I think it was a 1971 Nordic Ski-doo. Once the snowmobile slide rail suspension became popular the price of the machines went up. My dad just said snowmobiles have become too expensive for me. I had never rode a snowmobile with the slide rail suspension, only the ones with the bogie wheel suspension.
100% agree. A new snowmobile is more expensive than I could ever afford now. Shareholders above customers... I loved my ZR580.. I put a 2" paddle track under it..
You lost me when you inferred it has nothing to do with politics. It has EVERYTHING to do with politics. Regulations raise costs. Wages raise costs. Social programs raise costs....Etc. Every time costs rise it creates an environment of unaffordability. The lack of Disposable and Discrentionary income is 100% the issue. Legislating materials cost hikes and wage hikes leads exactly to the economy we have today. Our leaders are killing our own country over greed...Moreso than company owners, company ceo's and stockholders.
Sure but it’s not “bidenflation”. Our politicians are bought and paid for by corporate America, both sides, which is why it’s just getting worse for literal decades now.
I was 10 years old in the early 80's and had an Arctic Cat Pantera. It was the fastest best looking sled on the lakes of Michigan. I had a matching Snowmobile Suit (Black Yellow and Orange) with a matching Black Helmet. The memories I had on this sled. It's a shame to see the Cat retire.
Closing Artic Cat will Help Polaris for sure. Both Polaris and Arctic Cat are owned by Textron. The Irony that one of the Brothers that founded Polaris left and started Arctic Cat because he wanted to build recreational sleds not just sleds for Farmers, Trappers an d ice fisherman. "Utility Sleds"
@@Miner-49 Polaris owns Indian and they have a lot of Military Contracts building Military Vehicles. Many of them are Electric. Polaris Partnered with Zero Motorcycles for their technolgy .. Harley Davidson reneged on a contract with an EV Motorcycle CO and Bankrupted them.
Polaris was started in Roseau MN. in 1954 by David Johnson and brothers Edgar & Allen Heteen. Edgar left the Company and started Arctic Enterprises in Thief River Falls MN. in 1960.
We have debated many times the advantage of renting a sled at a tourist location, as opposed to buying, maintaining, storing, insuring, license and trail permits for a snowmobile, add the cost of a trailer and vehicle big enough to tow that. It makes more sense to pick up a phone, rent your room and a sled, if it breaks down, they swop it out.
Premium bro, premium, let's just make it a little more premium! Who cares if it's affordable to young people, in fact, who cares what they even want! Let's market everything just to old wealthy people bro, it will pump our quarter profits bro, just a little more bro, let's get that dentist money bro, let's make it cost just a little more bro, let's not make it exciting or fun, let's focus on luxury, bro! Profits bro! Profits!
I remember the day Polaris was going to buy KTM. The KTM board refused to have Polaris own them outright and only allowed them to have a 20% stake. Looking back, that was the best thing that happened for Polaris.
@@jasons2054I’m 58, I’ve had power sports since I was 12, a long time, newest sled I have right now is, 1996, newest motorcycle, 2008, newest tractor, 1991, newest car, 2012, newest house, 1950, safe to say, new stuff costs wayyy to much
@@phazerworld6300 You're right. If this economy keeps on as it has been, you might see a couple auto manufacturers go under. It seems like even comfortable people are feeling the outrageous prices on vehicles and powersports.
If corporate greed is the problem, which I agree is a big factor. What is the solution?
The solution is a rapid restructuring of powersports companies, where design leaders are not boomers wanting to hear themselves talk about plungers to justify large paychecks, but younger people who value long-term growth over short-term profits and actually care about the industry.
Example: I can't get too specific, but there are LOT of people who work in the marine industry that don't even like boats, yet somehow they've managed to control entire departments and affect decisions for the entire company. They don't know anything about boating, they don't go boating, and they get off on powertrips and micromanaging others because everyone knows they're compensating for having micropenises.
These are the people making huge decisions that affect the future of these companies, and they even loudly exclaim they are only there for a paycheck. Why are they even still employed? Especially with multiple HR complaints against them? Why does corporate America protect people like this?
Situation is completely ****ed, bro.
@@ADDvanced Well said man. I agree. The only solution I see is to not buy new stuff. Buy old stuff that can be worked on. Restored.
Tax the shit out of corporate dividens and incentivise reinvestment in the companies they operate.
This will never happen in America because Gov'mint Bad.
This was a great take on this. He touched upon how you don't need all the bells and whistlesl to ride ,100% agree. The solution is easy but difficult all at once. Society has changed, we treat everything like our electronic devices, if it isn't the latest and greatest, it's junk. Snowmobiling is about getting out and enjoying the winter, not a status symbol
This is the most concise and to the point video about corporations modis operandi I have seen... ever. And about a topic I care about. Nicely put.
Snowmobiles flat out just got too expensive.
Ex dealers kid here. Dad sold sleds in the boom years of 1966-1973. With all the snow we had those years, the damn things sold themselves. Farmers used the Panthers to haul hay bales to cows. (PA). Ski Daddler made a monster 20 inch track width hauler to compete with the Ski Doo Alpine but it was better because it had two skis and could be turned around without a flight crew directing it. We sold a bunch of those too. Arctic has now shut down twice. 1981 bankruptcy and now next spring. Both times low snow years and losing track of what sells sleds. You don’t fire your brain trust or ignore what the end user is telling you. But these modern companies are slaves to shareholders immediate profits. And it’s a cancer that cuts across all industries. There are thousands of good people underemployed across this nation because of short sighted thinking. You nailed it. Great video.
My Old Man had a skidoo Alpine. The one ski in the front and the dual track in the back. He put it on its side a few times. Wish he hadn't sold it. It came with a yellow tilt trailer. There was also a sled to pull behind the snowmobile. It had leaf spring suspension. Lol
You said it all,,,,right there.
yuppers!
@glenmallory9982 Yep, those were the days. I was born in 1960 in NW Indiana and up to the mid to late 70's the winters were so cold and the snows so frequent, snowmobiles were everywhere every winter. A local lake 'Cedar Lake' froze over every year and the ice got so thick there would be car and motorcycle races on the lake. My little brother raced on the lake a few times, putting wood screws into the knobby tires of his Suzuki RM100 for traction on the ice. I owned a pair of snowshoes and would go snowshoeing every winter. We'd ice skate, sled, etc. Sometime after 1980 all those winter sports mostly ended.
I’m sitting here in NW Montana on New Year’s Day and we don’t have any snow on the ground to speak of. Got an inch or two yesterday. First time no white Christmas in probably 25 years. My son is in the snow sports business and he says their sales just completely shut down a month or so ago. Dealers are trying to sell last year’s left over models at steep discounts.
How does the working man afford/justify spending$10,000 - $12,000 on an item that he may get to use a few times a year, depending completely on the amount of snow available? He has rent/mortgage, one or two car/truck notes, kids to feed, insurance, clothing, fuel, etc. He may also have a boat or camper to pay for. He would need a trailer for the machine and a place to keep it. And, he just may be in danger of losing his job, or maybe his wife losing hers. Inflation and uncertainty are powerful forces.
You nailed it on no entry level prices. When my local dealer wants $7500 for a kids sled, and $12000 for a 400cc, there's no way to introduce kids to the sport.
They should make a cheap trapper model like the Yamaha Bravo LT. Light low top speed and when the kids hit a few trees you don't cry.
@@davidbrennan5 I fully agree. I can't understand why Yamaha quit making the Bravo. The R&D and tooling costs would have been paid for decades ago, there was probably no warranty claims ever so basically it was just the COGS and everything else was profit.
@@bruceh5933 There was profit on a Bravo. Just not ENUF!
@@bruceh5933 You can't start a kid on a sled that does 90MPH+. They can't lift a 500lb machine. Older guys don't want a heavy machine either. This should be a family sport but everyone I see on the trails has grey hair and deep pockets. When I was 15, I cut grass all summer and bought a brand new Indy 500 for 5k. I don't think that is possible now. You could buy a nice Bravo long track for around $3500 brand new not that long ago.
No demand @@bruceh5933
You are correct- the entire powersports industry is in trouble. Everything from Snowmobiles to boats to trucks are so expensive the middle class can no longer afford them. Good thing I am old and can work on cars, boats, and snowmobiles, at least to a degree. I own a 2009 snowmobile, a 98 boat and drive cars from 2004. How can anyone justify a $80K truck. Its the whole system, prices for things have gone up X10 since the 70's while wages for most have gone up X3 or 4. Not even going into housing prices. Real hard to see how this is sustainable. No wonder every young person is scared for their future.
They shouldn’t be scared they should be pissed the F off. We need more Luigis
@@ADDvancedEasy pilgrim. Use tar and feathers. Not bullets.
I have always liked the tar and feathers idea
@@perpitraiter ua-cam.com/video/KbFGYg83HSk/v-deo.html
Im glad we sat by idly while paid-protesters pushed "the fight for $15", so that when inflation hit we could all make excuses as to what the real problems are and avoid addressing them before going belly up.
I think it really came down to 2 things above all. 1. Cost of entry and 2. Crappy winters the last 4-5 years.
Nobody is going to pay $25 THOUSAND dollars for something they can’t even use.
Don't worry bro, the news channel I watch all day that tells me what to think, they told me that climate change is just a liberal agenda, they told me it's not real. It's fake news! I currently don't have anyway to think for myself, but I am threatened by smart people, so I am going to worship an orange idol who trolls smart people, and I'm sure he'll have a concept of a plan to fix everything. It will be great again!
@@ADDvanced Can't get much worse...........
@@ADDvanced I know you are a guy that wears your emotions on your sleeve, and thats fine. Thats part of why you make good videos. Such as this and others.
That being said, you are better than posting stuff like this (the one I tagged you for). You know its never that simple and that raging against a straw man caricature thats not really real isnt any way forward for anyone, no matter what one believes.
@@GoldenCroclet me remind you how many times MAGA dipshits coughed at Sarah for wearing a mask while immunocompromised, or called me a f@@ for wearing one. I’m tired of their bullshit that believes feelings over facts.
@@jasonb1614 the most I've ever spent on a snowmobile was 1200.
I called it the day that Textron bought Arctic Cat. I was there at one of the dealers meetings they had all over canada. We were few hundred dealers from québec and ontario. When they announced that the off-road products will now be called Textron off-road product!! We all looked at each other and be like wtf??? All our customers thought we were selling Chinese products. 1 year after we received arctic cat decals to apply on atv and side by side. Then they reduced by alot the models that were available like example at one point there was no more a true touring sled. Textron really destroyed the brand, they should have stick to bell helicopter and Cessna planes lol, sorry for my English.
It wasn't even a year. Former dealer here myself. It was 6 months. Maybe in Canada it took longer, but here in the states it was six months. We BEGGED them, all of us dealers, to not do the name change. We told them what would happen. But the Georgia Southern arrogance of those EZGo folks ignored us. It was bittersweet watching them eat crow, but at that point the damage was done.
I said the same thing
Textron owned Polaris I think at one time
@@jefferyallguire4348 from 1968 to 1981 then employees and management purchased it from Textron because surprise surprise Textron was ruining the brand
@@jefferyallguire4348 And damn near killed them
Our country's first problem is that our business model of companies making money for shareholders rather than making great products and business models.
💯worldwide
100 percent agree. I posted the same thing in the pinned comment above.
So the stock market is the problem????? I am totally sure I don't know what the real problem is.
That’s the problem with everything….😢bean counters and lawyers
@@walkertonheights The problem is corporate america chasing short term profits, instead of long term strategy and growth. I stated it in my video. Because they value "profit" the C-suite roles, industrial design director roles, all of these positions have huge paychecks, and it attracts people that are motivated by nothing but money. The corporation winds up hiring these people with no real skin in the game; they don't care about boats/sleds, they don't care about the future of the industry in general, they just want their money. Until the people in change get kicked out, nothing will change. It's much like our government. Wealthy old people, hoovering as much money as possible from the rest of us.
You are absolutely right on this. I have finally given up on snowmobiling this year. It’s just costing too much to own one and only get out once or twice a year now. I’m from Canada and our winters are crap now in southern Ontario. And to travel to where the snow is just makes this even more expensive. With the financial situations people are in nowadays I understand why snowmobiling is in trouble.
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
@@ADDvanced Everyone deserves affordable snowmobiles, comrades!
Climate change should not be political. Facts > feelings
Completely agree, we don’t get snow anymore
@@ADDvanced the new video. "Rich people buy all the snow" 🤣🤣🤣
The side by side market has probably done more to hurt the snowmobile market that anything. They can be used 90% of the year and take a large portion of the recreational use money.
That makes sense as well.
Good point dude; peeps blowing their load of rec machine $ on sxs.
Yeah, people bought tracks for their side by sides to drive in the snow. It's nicer for the older people and very young to have a warm cab and get use out of a machine they already own. My brother has a Ranger with tracks and it's not bad to drive. Snowmobiles are funner, but not enough to justify to own a newer one.
This is true. I bought tracks for my sxs and the wife and kids love it. You don't go anywhere fast and the performance fun factor really isn't there, but it gets USED. I still have a sled but I've sold theirs because they don't have any interest in it. The other option exists now where you're warm and don't have to wear all the other gear. Ands its useable year round.
Too bad SXS is boring after 10 minutes. Sledding is so much more fun.
I was an Arctic Cat guy all my life at 63 years old I now ride Polaris because the used market for Cats will tank and then no parts. When I was a kid I bought my first Cats delivering newspapers , you couldn't do this now, the global economy is killing everything just like 100,000 dollars for a new truck, everything is in big trouble including our future.
Fellow Wisco snowmobiler here. I feel your frustration. I’m 23 and am lucky to have a few friends that got me into snowmobiling a few years ago. We mostly ride old iron because anything newer is way too expensive to justify. Especially with these short to nonexistent snow seasons. I love the older stuff though, but you have to be mechanically inclined.
In general, it’s a frustrating time to be a young person in America. My generation mostly can’t afford to get into hobbies like snowmobiling or boating. Those things are hard to justify with the price of housing and groceries being so high. Getting people my age to go outside is another challenge, but that’s a different topic. The American dream of owning a home and raising a family on a “middle class” income is dying quickly. Older people often just don’t get the reality of it.
It’s sad to think how exciting and affordable the snowmobiling used to be for the working class. My group is always the youngest up north and we rarely see another group of younger guys. It’s depressing and I don’t see it getting any better. I feel for the businesses that rely on the sport. They are hurting really bad, especially after the lack of snow last year.
Hey man, I feel you, because I was in much the same situation 10-15 years ago. I'm not in much better of one now, but I would like to give you some advice for long term success, based on my experience, if that is okay.
1. Never finance a car. It is a depreciating asset. If you did already, sell it, get out of it.
2. Buy a cheap japanese daily driver with good MPG. I hate paying for gas, so I picked up a 2000 Insight, and I get 52mpg with snow tires, and 60-70 with summers. This car has paid for itself 3-4x, and allows me to drive longer errands for literally pennies. You can have a cool car too, but for your daily, a prius or insight are just incredible ways to save money.
3. Look for 'alternative' places to live. I rented a warehouse with a friend, we fixed cars in it, and we built illegal apartments in it. Our rent was like $400/month each, which allowed me to start saving cash much more quickly vs paying $1000+ in rent.
4. Buy property as soon as you can. Do not buy the nicest place in the crappiest area, buy the cheapest place in the nicest area you can find.
I hope that helps, and keep up the grind. Cheers man!
Andrew..i feel you... but..i hope your voting! And your choice..not your parents..and hopefully your friends are too.In the 70s because of the war young ppl were active..i dont see that today.. unfortunate my generation screwed that up....let their get away with shit that shouldn't be tolerated
I’m a public company CEO and you are correct about focus on short-term profits. However you are incorrect in assuming this is motivated primarily by senior management. The pressure for this short-term focus comes almost entirely from active (not passive) investors like hedge funds and activists. They wield massive and outsized power over the board who they threaten with proxy battles and into forced management changes. We need SEC regulation to mute this impact so boards and management can stay focused on longterm value creation.
Best reason to stay as a private company
I'd be down for reversing the supreme court decision where shareholders get paid out before employees get paid. Time to check the activist investors.
Sad
As in Harley, bud light and Gillette?
@@aceyorba it’s potentially better, but if it is held by some Private Equity investors, it can be even worse.
Back in the early 70s - Snowmobiles were marketed as family fun ! - Fast forward to 24 - Is 25k Affordable ?
They are still family fun, nobody says you have to buy the most expensive snowmobiles, there are plenty of sleds just over $10 K or you can buy a used sled for under $10K and still have fun.
I agree, but in the 70s you did not have turbos, long tunnels, 3inch paddles. I road a arctic cat 8000 . Nothing like what we have today. That said, do they have to mark up the price of everything? Seems like EVERYTHING these days are over priced! And nothing last like it use to. Be blessed.
@@gregturnbow7089 I spring ordered a 2000 MXZ 700 for around $6,200 Everything is more expensive today and the sleds of today have way more technology and tech today. Cars, trucks, wave runners, boats, atv's motorcycles. everything is more expensive but you can by a New sled for around $10,000 if you don't need the the
top models and features.
@@bobhirdes6725 But Arctic Cat is in the business of selling NEW sleds. If few folks can afford a NEW sled, you aren't in business for long.
@@GreenCanoeb you can buy a New Arctic Cat for under $15,000
There is a sled and price range for everyone.
Stop complaining about prices. If you don’t like it buy a used sled. Problem solved.
I have been a diehard arctic cat fan for over 50 years, I refuse to pay $30,000 for a new sled. It's all old school for me, I run sleds from the 1960's and 70's and have a great time for little money!
@@cpieper73 I've never seen a brand new artic cat go for $30.000
@@EricMacNichol True but they are getting close and by the time you get all of the gear to go with it I would say he is not too far off.
@@EricMacNicholthundercat turbo over 20k wake up!
For those who say no snow we'll they sell trailers get out and find some have fun
True in most types of equipment. I am a diehard Bolens garden tractor fanatic. Using them for 40 years now. A couple weeks ago I needed to repair a sprocket and chain on my 1980 garden tractor snowblower setup, all the while thinking maybe I should get a new one and I wouldn't have to do a little fixing. OMG 20 grand for a new small compact tractor that would do the same as what my 44 year old machine does.......NO WAY!. By the way, Bolens has gone the same way as Cat. Bought out by a large consumer products company and run into the ground. Although their trajectory went in the other direction. They went from making good quality simple long lasting equipment that was a once in a life long lasting investment to making cheap throw away junk.
My first brand new sled was a 1997 Z440. I bought it in 1998 as a left over. I paid $2800 for it if i remember correctly. I worked an entire summer and saved every penny i could. Last sled i bought was a 2004 Firecat F5 SnoPro. I paid $7200 for it. There is no way id buy a new sled. Its like the damn side by side market. $20k for a damn side by side. Its all crazy.
And a new Polaris Ranger or Xpedition is 46k.
And trucks are 100k!
I would rather have a Suzuki Samurai with Heat/AC that I can run on the roads.
@davidbrennan5 1000%
Side by sides are now up to 50 grand.
I can remember when snowmobiling was about exploring the outdoors with a large group of people, a dozen or more. Gone are the days when you looked for wildlife and cooked on the trail. Today is how many miles you can put on in day, basically a thrill ride !
I too, miss snowmobiling and cooking wildlife on the trail.
There's no need to shut production down at Cat. There is a HUGE demand for PARTS for the sleds that were built in the past. There is so many sleds out there and a cult like following the people that built that brand need parts for the sleds they love. Would someone see this and recognize this demand from Cat and switch to produce parts that need to be made or maybe another company coming in and buying/managing it for future.
Someone will always make parts . You can still buy aftermarket parts and tracks for most popular sleds from the 70s, 80s, and 90s
In 2008 I had a used arctic cat 900 long track that I never got comfortable on. I went to the arctic cat dealer to buy a brand new cat, after talking with the owner of the dealership about my dirt bike background he sent me to the skidoo dealer telling me the rev chassis was leaps and bounds better to ride. I went and bought the rev 800 that day and my riding improved 50% overnight. I’ve always appreciated his honesty. Very rare.
I wonder if way back, if they had UA-cam we would hear the same sentiment from those watching the horseless carriage enter the scene. I’m 62 and one thing I’ve observed is change is inevitable, not always good or bad but inevitable. How we roll with those punches is how we define the value of what little time we have on this earth. I.E. money makes some good people do bad things, that I know also to be true.
I know many Cat guys that switched to Ski-doo in 2003 after driving a Ski-doo REV, they did not respond to that sled until 2012 (big mistake) and then Textron started denying warranty claims and they lost a lot of loyal customers and dealers to other brands that stood behind their products.
@@davidbrennan5 You're right on that, there was even a lawsuit between cat and BRP about the rev chassis, lol. Twinspar was awful though, totally designed by and for boomers.
I think Textron did them in. They used to be good at keeping most of their customers happy and innovating. Cat guys/gals were extremely loyal. They were too complacent, they upset their own fanbase and ignored trends. You don't even see Cats in the mountains anymore. Textron ran the company into the ground.
@@davidbrennan5I see them in the mountains 🤷🏻♂️
I was just the opposite rode cat all my life bought a 03 rev...sold it and went back to cat
You almost took the words out of my mouth!
I sold snowmobiles (Arctic Cat and Yamaha) in the 70's and 80's, in a an small, rural prairie market with at best inconsistent snow conditions. In fact, my first year in business was almost our last because of inability to move non-current stock. So 20-30 units per year was the most we could expect to sell.
In 1985, after an almost snow less winter, and having about a dozen of our previous years 20 unit order left over, my AC rep came in, demanded that we place an order of 22 machines after I told him I'd order 6. He then threatened to give the dealership to someone else, so I took him up on his offer. The new guy kicked them out after 1 year, and there's been no AC dealer for 40 years! And the others have disappeared too as of recently.
The snowmobile industry, much like every industry, has, as you say, succumbed to short term profit greed, and has never been realistic about the demand and future prospects for it's products.
Harley is a perfect example, but even they are not the complete and utter expensive toy that snowmobiles have become! Every time I see a giant 4x4 truck with 1/3 of the machine hanging out off the tailgate, I think how ridiculously large and unmanageable they've become, and how few people can tote one around or store it, let alone afford it.
CEO salaries based on quarterly profits, likely fermented in some delusional university professors den, have enriched a small minority of people, but have decimated and destroyed countless companies!
I hope they're proud.
Nailed it! When companies go from being run by engineering to being run by bean counters, the long term results suck for consumers.
NASCAR did the same thing, now look at them closing tracks nobody in the stands. They didn't care about there base.
NASCAR is hurting because no one even makes cars anymore
ASSCAR went woke. They are universal kit cars and have nothing in common with production cars like they did in the golden era. They ruined a great thing.
@@christophercurry7410 Woke is a dumb way to describe what you then specified. Nobody cares about v8 RWD tube framed race cars with a FWD V6 body on the top. That's why rally racing is superior, real cars, real roads.
@@ADDvanced I should have specified that they went Woke in addition to making the teams buy their kit car.
@@christophercurry7410 Woke is good. Means your mind has expanded to see all sorts of perspectives. I'm WOKE af because I don't listen to the mainstream media brainwashing I mean news.
This is so sad. I'll never forget getting up Christmas morning, 1973, as a 12 year old kid and seeing the '74 Panther 340 that my parents had snuck home in the middle of the night. $1,500, which was an expensive machine at the time. I practically lived on that thing for several winters. It's still tucked away in a corner of a garage at the farm, complete with the scratches on the hood from the time I put it through a barb wire fence.
Glad you didn't get hurt! Cheers man!
Have a 73-340 panther myself
I believe much of what you're saying is correct. I especially like what you said about how blue collar, middle class people struggle, or flat out can't stay in this market because of the cost. I do mostly vintage as a hobby and like to ride them, but I was completely unaware that new sleds were going for $20K +. That's insane. Started thinking, what better time for someone to just become a DYI guy, find a late 90's early 2000's sled from whatever brand you choose and build it the way you want. Parts are readily available for the most part. I can completely rebuild an engine and go through the chassis of a late 90's Cat or Polaris and have a dependable trail sled for a fraction of what you pay now. And even if it don't snow for 2 seasons, so what? It'll still be there when the snow comes back and I didn't have to trade up and fork over another $15K. It's ridiculous to me.
You're exactly right dude I own nothing but old stuff I can't afford anything new my oldest sled is a 91 Polaris 500 SKS the newest one is a '97 Polaris ultra SPX and then I got a 91 RXL '96 Polaris xcr600 and I run them all throughout the year even if there's no snow I'll go out there and fire one up and let it run just to keep things fresh and moving when things are sitting and not moving that's when shit tends to happen.
64 year old guy here. I think a lot changes when companies go from private/family owned to publicly traded. Roseau or Thief River Falls, Minnesota, have vastly different perspectives than NYC/Wallstreet. CEO's with the board of directors in their back pocket, golden parachutes when they drive companies into the ground, etc.
This makes me so sad. My grandpa bought a brand new 71 Artic Cat Panther to have at his retirement home in northern WI that we rode a few times. My immediate family never had snowmobiles but I always longed to have one. We grew up in the 70’s with a Scorpion dealer right next to our small subdivision in East Central WI where we would hang out on winter days. Back then in the golden era of snowmobiling folks drove sleds all over the place from one farm field to the next. Everyone had one and there was plenty of snow. Great memories of a now a by-gone era.
You are exactly spot on. For some reason, most people don’t see it
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to put this together. Some very valid points as far as I'm concerned. Short-Sighted ness and corporate greed. A big problem all over. Thanks again for posting.
I was a motoski and then skidoo dealer and mechanic ,I HAD ONE OF THE FIRST 50 formula mx pro stocks , i last purchaced a new machine in 94 , i drew the line at ten thousand dollars , for a 3 month at most sport a year , i now have three old beaters a 89 mx a 91 mx x and a 98 formula deluxe ,they still run fast ,are reliable ,and cheap to run and maintain , i think retro will be the future of snowmobiles , there appeal to me was when they lost there hood and windshields , they became cold to ride, and with the massive suspensions ,they were just sit and steer things ,you no longer rode , if you did it was over a hundred mph. ,remember trail speed limits are 30 , and its kind of sad you talking to a former racer , the tec. needs to go back 25 yrs. and the price needs to go back under 6 grand for the sport to survive .
You hit The nail right on the head. I’ve experienced this in all facets of corporations in North America. There are absolutely 100% concerned about their quarterly profits. and have zero long-term vision. It is scary to know how many companies are run this way.
And somehow ALL the people with the key decision making roles, the ones paid a ton, are idiots who aren't even passionate about the industry. WHY?
@ Agreed fully.
heck ya I love how your not afraid to say it how it is. new sub over here. hopefully things can turn around for the better. not looking great but gotta keep positive. still going to keep my 1972 cat in the family rippin
Yep things are getting to expensive everyday and corporate greed isn't helping either. So where do we go to help fix this! If it can be fixed
@ everyday I do what I can. Boycotting what I can. Crossing my fingers that thing will get better
To keep that 72 cat running all it requires is maintenance that's it keep it in the garage and keep it maintained and it will run forever if you neglect it keep it outside it's probably junk already.
@@nightrider6769 100 % I definitely keep up well on maintenance and it spends every night in the shop. I have a few vintage race sleds as well gotta keep them nice and preserved.
Extremely well said. As a former Arctic cat owner, this was hard to believe for me. I had really good luck with all my sleds and it’s a total shame to see this go down.
14 years ago I sat at a table with Cat Polaris & Yamaha in Grand rapids MN and talked about the future of snowmobiles @ that time I told them they had no entry level sleds . so familys could enter in snowmobiling didn't need to be a big HP sled most of the snowmobilers started out on 340 or maybe 440 if lucky and didn;t trail rider they put miles on , after school and weekends !
Then they gave me that the average snowmobiler has a income of $40 to $50K a year and spends $1,000 a weekend and thats market they want to sell to ! And this was 2010
Every company came out with an entry level sled, and every one of them lost money, on them because no one would buy them, they would rather buy the fully loaded turbo
I know people picking up the Skidoo Neo and liking them.
No wonder they failed. They can't do math. $ 1000 per weekend is $52k a year. Pretty sure that's not right.
great rant and biggg view numbers... forgot about your channel for a while but glad to be back!
Apparently getting pissed and yelling into the void > more popular than building things.
I agree 100%. The hype of having the most expensive sleds has a serious hold on people though. I see people as all the time what's a good GPS setup on the cheap for their sleds. And 90% of the people say "7S". And they all claim it's worth it over a $150 setup. The 7S is $1,200 to add it! No that's not worth it! If you get a deal on a sled with it sure, that's more worth it.
But to put that into perspective I bought a 2024 XC 850 for $13,500, with the storm track and a 2nd year of warranty. I have a Garmin drive50LM GPS, my own mount and wiring to charge it. Total that cost about $120 with trail maps. I also added the big storage bag, a handlebar pad, tunnel ice scratchers, mirrors, heated shield plug, rail stiffeners and a whole wrap for about $1,200! The peer pressure to spend more more more is insane in this industry.
Lower powered sleds as a solution is tricky. I used to work at a Polaris/Arctic Cat and I'll tell you the top end models sell the fastest. The lower powered and lower trim sleds need to be cheaper. And obviously they could since they are selling those mid tier sleds for $12k.
How I know that Textron doesn't care if the fact that they are closing it up immediately after they get the new chassis and engine out. These sleds are selling! But this is Textrons plan the whole time. Because why would a company spend all that money on a new products tooling, R&D, and not even ATTEMPT to make a return on that investment? This is Textrons plan and it always has been. When they owned Polaris in the 80s they did the same thing. Hopefully someone buys Cat and can give it the soul it deserve and they can make it work.
I've never ridden a snow mobile, but love the honesty in this video. The problem, as you said, has been going on for 30+ years.
Grew up with Cat and sledding. Issue for me is hardly any snow cover for riding. Now I need to travel for sledding. Back in the day I just drove out my WI garage. Since I can ATV all year a sled is near useless today. But you are right about short term profits but I think the no snow means no go for sledding.
Totally agree about the weather. I am in Wisconsin as well (LaCrosse area) and the so-called "winters" around here ... for lack of a better term ... SUCK! You could say that I am nearly obsessed with snowmobiling, so the lack of REAL winters is hard to deal with. My two sleds are more trailer queens than riders, but I am still having tons of fun with them the few times I DO get to ride.
I originally had a part where I touched on climate change, but I thought I'd be pushing it so I clipped it out. I did a whole separate video about it here:
ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.htmlsi=6PBlxEMFddG3yvZv
@@NJP76 Janesville, WI., and I think we get even less snow! The city of Janesville used to flood skating rinks, but they gave up on it 10-12 years ago because it was too warm to freeze.
You F'-ing nailed it bro. I watched my company (and others) put on blinders and only look at short term goals. When a company places shareholders over customers there's a problem.
I started riding my own sled in 1966. Went through Yellowstone Park in 1967. Coulter Bay to West Yellowstone with my father. Raced Ovals, Cross Country. It was a wonderful childhood. All Cat.
You're absolutely right and it's everywhere and in everything. It's a very complicated issue but the growth over sustainability mindset has been created by the acceleration of technological innovation in some sectors creating standards applied to unrelated fields. Short term growth drives everything because it sustains stock prices and investor interest and that supports the salaries of the upper tier executives it becomes toxically delusional eventually eg. Bud Lite.
Former AC line worker here.
AC and their management, supervisors and leads ran out all the employees who gave a crap about quality.
The local management is 100% to blame for the falier of the company.
Texron just kept them afloat until they realized that with the same people in charge, nothing much would change.
Add higher prices and a warranty that is like having no warranty at all, is a recipe for falier.
I hate what is happening to our town, but screw AC and their leads, supervisors and managers.
"They realized that with the same people in charge, nothing much would change." This is a huge problem at a lot of companies, including my own. You can try to change it , and we sure as hell have tried, but you can only do so much because you don't have the authority and your hands are tied. So you either deal with it, or leave and hope you don't end up in the same situation at another company.
Can only speak for northern New England... but man, the absolute lack of snow over the past 4+winters (and this one is looking to be similar) has to account for some of it as well... left over new sleds from last season, clean used sleds on the market from folks tired of looking at them or aging out (hello Harley..). It's a shame all around really...
Rich mans sport now 😢 im right here in northern Vermont im blame the company but rich out of staters ruined land prices up here. The spectrum is huge.
@350mack central VT here... happy to have some acreage to skid wood with on with my Tundra... VAST is now full of folks on 850s that have no business on 125s; trail riding is a luxury at this point.
@@andrewgagner2927 i guess im more central than north but have a camp in averill Vermont. Same thing. They buy or rent the biggest sled and 9/10 they crash
South central Vermonter here. We sold expensive sleds like 5 years ago when I saw the writing on the wall. Now we just run mid to late 90’s sleds and we have just as much fun on a fraction of the price. You both are correct. The huge amount of flatlanders has killed snowmobiling in VT
@wsc2004 yessir, if it's something people want (especially in VT) the working class get priced out pretty quick. Hope you have a good '25.
A lot of good people lost their lively hood due to mismanagement
I agree with you, buddy. I am a paraplegic who likes to ride snowmobiles, ATVs, and pickup trucks down the dirt roads to great hunting spots. Over the past few years, things have gotten so expensive that I can barely afford to pay my bills, and that is it. I am in a position where I will be needing a new to me pickup truck. The prices have gone through the roof. I am looking at something 5-6 years old that already has 100K on it, and they still want 30K for that. Being disabled, I need something reliable, and something with 100K may last a few years, but then I will have to start dumping money into it. It is all designed for the wealthy these days. I sadly am not one of them. Disabled people do not have a lot that they can do as it is, and now they are taking most chances for us to enjoy what we have left of life and destroying that as well.
You are spot on about short term corporate thinking. A second point is that Where I live , Toronto the snowmobile season is now about 3 to 4 weeks per year on average. when I bought my first 1970 panther the season lasted from early December to late march. Hard to justify spending so much for such a short season.
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
In general, snowmobiling is dieing. Too expensive, lack of snow, lack of local trails.
This an excellent video! I am glad that you are talking about these topics. Keep up the good work, my friend.
Will do! Appreciate the comment.
You laid it out true. The American Dream of old is dying.
Great video amazing engagement! Hello from New Glarus!
Growing up in upstate New York in the seventies and eighties (riding a Kawasaki Invader) there was so much snow we could ride the roads all season. I sold my Polaris sleds two years ago because unless you head to the Hill (which most of us avoid) or the central Adirondacks, both of which requires trailering, you ain’t riding. We now live in the southern tier and my neighbor hasn’t ridden in three years. The price point of sleds is so whacked you can’t justify the purchase. I will add that in my mind when you mention snowmobiles, the first vision that comes to mind are Cats. All my friends had Cats. Damn shame it’s coming to an end, again. God bless those employees.
I live in Alaska and have been waiting for snow sense 1991 it never comes. Last year it finally snowed 3 feet in one night and my newer 2005 polaris with 200 miles on it had the injectors fail wont run:( and parts are not available so i go out in the woods were my collection of 1999 xc 700s are that have not ran sense 2005 with a flat head screwdriver and fresh gas shes fires up. Why would i pay 30k for a sled that wont work at -40 or without parts changing.
@@bearbait2221exactly. I'm so glad my ski doo is carburetor. I went to start it this fall and the carb had a stuck float. Took me an hour and the carbs were clean and she was running sweet again. I thought to myself I'm so glad this wasn't an etech with an injector issue it would have been a $$$ trip to the stealership
I had lack of snow/poor winters in there, but clipped it out because I felt I was getting too political. I did do an entire video on climate change, you can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
Lots of good points here. One thing I think should be said regarding college is that govt sponsored loans are likely the reason college here is so freaking expensive. Quick google search shows college tuition in the US is on average (which admittedly can be skewed, I don't see median numbers) nearly twice as expensive as most other western countries. Universities have been emboldened by the feelings of necessity, plus the loans that no private institution would ever hand out that they can just keep charging whatever they want and people (though decreasingly so) will pay up no matter what. Admin costs at many colleges is 3x the actual teacher payroll, what the hell is that? Why do colleges have rock gyms now? The rock gyms and other frivolous amenities are the heated everything, in this scenario ( 6:06 ). I don't even know how you fix this without everyone refusing to apply. But like you said, some fields necessitate a college education. All I know is things are only going to keep getting worse before they get better.
Same brother. Those are all valid points; but end of the day entire generations are basically being put into legal slavery. They will never start a family, own a home, just rent forever, and paying hundreds of month to student loan companies with overpaid CEOs and executives. The federal government should handle ALL student loans, and make everything 0% interest to encourage education. We are already in a cold war with other global superpowers, we are directly competing with them and we need to stay on top instead of becoming a nation of uneducated 'consumers'. We need more creators, and people that are passionate about building things, not just chasing a paycheck.
I'm sick of the rich pitting white collar vs blue collar against each other. WE ARE ALL WORKING CLASS. I respect CREATION, whether it be with your hands or designing parts on a screen. I do NOT respect the current culture of corporate america, with dick swinging egos and toxic motherFrs being put in positions of power because they crave power instead of being passionate about the industry they are working in. It's all a joke, and the problem is the boomers running these companies; they're just greedy pieces of ****.
@@ADDvanced The school's are adding little benefit to society and their cost structure is beyond obscene. Education is more about creating a massive contingent of govt employees than anything related to learning. The reality is that half of the population lacks the innate ability to perform true high school material. College should be reserved for likely just 10% of the population. We have bastardized schooling and lowered standards to the point that even masters and doctoral degree mean nothing.
College costs can be managed by picking a degree that supports a well paying career that is in demand. My kids all held multiple jobs,got credits online when they could and got out in 3 1/2 years. Three kids tuition and auto debt free and homeowners by 30. Nurse, Benifits consultant and PT.
@@bt9653sure. But is it better for society if I pay $7k a year to a for profit student loan company that provides nothing of value, to society?
Or is it better if I spent $7k a year on local contractors improving my house, or buy another sled, or spend some time up north spending money at businesses up there?
People have only a finite amount of money. It can pay back their loans, with idiotic interest, and benefit like 5 people, or that wealth could be spent in the local economy/on goods and services that will benefit a LOT of people.
@@winningwithoutracing7811 You are wrong on so many things, I'm not even going to bother. Who do you think designed the car you drive? The phone in your pocket? Your appliances in your kitchen? Your power tools? The network system in your house, the network system across the country. It wasn't trades people, bro.
You are spot on with what you said. Large equity companies that have no idea about an industry trying to squeeze every last penny out until it’s too late then selling off the company. I have riding sleds since I was six and was a cat man for years until cat fell off the cliff. I have owned 30 plus sleds in that time and I’m probably getting out of the sport.
You're totally on point and I feel your frustration. The industry has slowly been going off the cliff for over a decade. The price of everything in the power sports industry is so out of reach for the working class. I mean, who spends 30k on a SXS?
I don't know what the solution is either. Give it time and hopefully the industry will sort itself out?
Getting the boomers OUT of the decision making process way up top in the corporate world. They are out of touch, a lot of them don't even own boats or sleds, they are just there for a paycheck.
@ADDvanced Sadly this is a current problem across many industries. Tenured leadership becomes stale and out of touch. I think it's always best to have younger blood with more energy in higher positions. Unfortunately there's no clear way to have boomers ousted besides waiting for them to age out.
An eye opener. Thanks. Arctic Cat was my introduction to insane acceleration and the possibility of death at the age of 16.
I am a retired Industrial Designer. I rose to executive engineering ranks in a huge multinational corporation. The problem does manifest in short term profit orientation by executives as you have observed, but they can only do so much and greed is everywhere. The problem is that the wealth of the US has been greatly diminished due to the persistent, large and long lasting trade deficit in combination with high defense spending. The wealth is now in China and other countries that have a persistent trade surplus to us, they now have our money. America has become a poor hollowed out country but doesn't know it. The largest segment of wealth loss is from the middle class laborers. Those workers were also consumers, and they bought recreational equipment, cars, houses and trucks with their relatively high paying union jobs. Those jobs still exist and still pay really well, but they are not in the US, they are in the countries we buy our stuff from. Most middle class people today are in some way compensated for by the goverment. Interestingly, the trade vultures that have siphoned American wealth are dependent on the US navy for safe trade lanes. This will soon come to an end.
Right on! Did you check out my work at www.gruvdesign.com? What'd you think?
I agree with you. The 1% sold out our entire country for short term gains.
If this continue for other countries it seems in many years they will become what america is becoming today… just a big fucking circus
I would love to hear how I am compensated.
I don't pretend to know why Arctic Cat stopped production of snowmobiles but I agree with everything you said
Arctic cat has been in trouble for many years now. Still sad. Yamaha has tones of money and they dipped too. I went into local dealer for dirt bike parts with my kid and said this is an easy way to blow $20 grand.
The guy was so arrogant he said “It’s a lot more than that”. With a smug look on his face. A thunder at sitting all year in the showroom in March.
I think imma go ask him where he’s going to be working next year. The dealers are arrogant, they cost more than a new car.
I can remember buying Mach Z’s for $12,000. That was the most expensive ski-doo except the grand touring. Lots of really sleds were $7500. 380 Formula S were like $4000.
Now they’re $30,000. Almost as much as a new pickup truck.
$23;000 not $30,000 for the top of the line model. Lots of good deals on leftovers at my
Local cat dealership right now Riot 8000 for little under $13,000. Lots of goos deals out there on used sleds. The bottom line is it’s never been easy. But if u want to ride u just do it been doing it with a poor man’s wallet my entire life.
What year was it when you bought your MXZ.
Ummm, new trucks are $80,000 to $120,000++!!
@@jeffmiller3150 You can buy a stripped down f-150 4x4 for $43,000.00.
Wow!!! Well said! Was not expecting the no BS approach.
Keepin it real. Sorta. Can’t say what I really think without getting sued.
This was a great video, good points. aLmost lost me when you said BRP was socialist but glad I stuck around lol. All these companies jacked prices through the roof during covid and people were mostly willing to pay. Now sales numbers are cooling down but prices have stayed high. In Canada a new 850 is in the 25k ball park. Before covid only a SideWinder topped 20K. The prices we're paying are insane but these companies refuse to go back to pre covid profit margins.
The only people 'willing to pay' were boomers, and they blew their last load on sleds, UTVs, and pontoon boats. There will be a massive crash with so much supply coming back onto the used market very shortly.
I was at a Polaris / KTM dealer when Victory got the axe. Been through it!
Sad to see Cat go. It's a sign of the times, though. Who the heck can afford these things now a days..? They're so expensive... for years in the industry I could hardly afford to go riding myself. It wasn't until I got to the level of getting a demo unit that I could, but then I was so damn busy I hardly used the thing...
I saw it after 27 years in the Automotive retail business from service parts and new car sales.
The businesses are all being run by the bean counters and 96 percent that are running the corporate
world have never actually sold a product or worked from the bottom to the top. Some of the most successful companies 100 years ago that lasted the teams running the business focused on the customer and how to make their product the best in the business. They knew by working the basics it would eventually payoff. The business Corporate mindset doesn’t think that way anymore and the CEO’s can be over paid and go elsewhere in a couple years with a big fat paycheck
Im 62, grew up driving a snow cruiser and and Evinrude. Lived in rural Canada and we all snowmobiled all winter. Some of my best childhood memories where on a sled. Eventually, I got a Polaris Indy 500 classic and drove it into the ground. Where I live, Its bee Polaris and Ski Doo for years. Yamaha had its die hards and they where reliable, but took a weird design turn and ...anyway, I never know anyone that drove an Arctic Cat and the few that tried spent all winter in the shop fixing stuff. All that said, I find it very sad that brands are quitting. I grew up with Rupp, Skiroule, Kawasaki, john deer, massy ferguson, Alouette, Snow cruiser, Johnson, Moto Ski, Yamaha, Ski Doo, Polaris and I'm likely forgetting some. Down to two .... but 30 grand for a sled did this.
America is loosing at the game it started our greed got the best of us and we have had it so easy for so long that we have become complacent and lazy and weak
I agree with all your main points. I wonder if there is an issue getting four stroke engines now.
We need some snowmobiles that are small enough to ride around in the yard and the field next door.
oil shocks, small suspension, dial speedometer
Keep going on this route....China and Russia WILL call the shots on the global stage. They are long term planners and thinkers while corporate America is too worried about the next quarter profits
Mechanical engineer here. I was the president of the clean snowmobile SAE competition (very cool worth a google search) during my time in school. We designed and build our own diesel sled from an Arctic Cat chassis. My first job offer was with arctic cat in Minnesota. It was my dream job but I didn’t take it cause I couldn’t take the burden of working for a corporate giant like textron that doesn’t care about their employees. I was worried a few bad winters would have us all layed off. Well turns out that’s exactly what happened, and the people who moved to thief river and bought homes are completely screwed because of a decision happening in a board room hundreds of miles away. Shame on them.
Nailed it! Even look at the muscle cars of the 60s and 70s, they tried to keep them affordable for young men, now only the big money people can afford the modern day copies.
69 chevelle was just over $3k, which would be $25k today. That would be $25k for the exact same car, not a modern equivalent. No ac, manual windows,manual locks, no power anything, vinyl bench seats, am only radio, points ignition, carb, 8 mpg, bias ply tires, steel wheels with hub caps, etc.
And now GM is discontinuing the Camaro, I had a 76 rally sport,350 4bbl carb,4 on the floor, posi traction,no air or power windows,am radio but it was a sweet ride,ordered it $5431.00 with the tax.
When you first started talking about the demise of snowmobiling, I immediately thought of Harley Davidson.......funny you mentioned them later on in the video. The industry should have focused more on 340s, 440 and 500s while trying their best to keep costs down. That would be a way to keep "Families" on tracks and skis.
I must have read a different letter than everyone else. Filling the 2025 orders, suspend manufacturing operations indefinitely and the key, "exploring strategic alternatives regarding the future of the powersports business." I don't know about everyone else before throwing in the towel but this smells like CFMoto who is a rising star in the Powersports ATV/Side by Side game with a great price and product and good warranty that know the market and seem to be youth appealing. I will be optimistic AC sleds will find a home. But man we need a good winter or two!
CFMOTO vehicles are manufactured in China, Thailand, and Mexico the countries that Donald Trump will be putting tariff on 25% ????
You are actually spot on. Textron only looks at quarterly profits and stock prices and never had a long term plan or commitment with AC. They can get away with some of that when it comes to aircraft and golf carts that don't change in 20 years, but it does not work in an industry as competitive as powersports.
Textron got Polaris into bankruptcy
I owned Artic Cat,Polaris, Skidoo and Yamaha. Got out of it because we just don't get snow anymore like we did in the 70's and 80's even the 90's. Sleds got expensive why make 10 months of payments for a sled to sit get a atv ride it 10 months out of the year. We'll problem happened many years ago no place to ride them anymore unfortunately its not the 70's 80's lots of open land and trails. At least here in Massachusetts.
Your video covered everything from cars to homes to Healthcare to cell phones. Almost no large companies are run by anyone with a long-term connection so it's get rich quick and run from the wreckage.
Exactly! And a lot of them aren't even passionate about these industries; why the fuck are they employed?!
Not many people remember that Mercury Outboard made some of the best sleds.
Snowtwister and trailtwister 71-76 i believe
@1gofastboat327 Twisters started in 74.
Carl Kiekhaefer. Worked for Evinrude. Mercury out boards, Nascar - sleds.
Hey Rob, Merry Christmas to you and Sarah. Besides boats I too have loved Sleds most of my life. Have had newer ones but always end up going back to what I grew up on and having more fun on them. Hope you two have a great new year!
You too! Looking forward to putting 2024 behind me, it sucked.
@@ADDvanced Yes was one of our roughest Lost someone close like you did and a few others, not to mention T boning someone that turned in front of me on one of my 82 naked goldwings in September. It put all my boat and snowmobile projects on hold after retiring in may. 2025 has to be much better.
Never watched a vid of yours but couldn't have said it better myself. Grew up with my father owning a Yamaha dealership and have a love for Yamaha sleds/mx bikes.....now there's no more Yamaha sleds. Now arctic cat too??!! Makes me sick
Good video, I agree wholeheartedly. Things are getting too expensive and there's less and less disposable income for many people. The people that buy sleds are an increasingly fewer but wealthier segment of the population and they DO want the latest and greatest. More power, more creature comforts, lighter, faster. The problem is these people are getting fewer and farther between. These companies should be focusing on keeping costs low and innovating at the same time. As you said, Harley is a perfect example.
I talk about the ridiculous prices of snowmobiles every year!! Same with pick up trucks. Loaded with every piece of technology no one needs just to jack the price up. When I was growing up in the early 2000's you could buy a brand new snowmobile for around $5-6000.
You could literally say that about any product ever produced. Government ineptitude and corruption is a different conversation. You can read how economics works on the internet for free. Ever consider people like technology and happy are to pay for it? The good news is you don’t have to buy any of them. What a great country
Some sleds were that price in the 2000's, not all. And lots of people are running long term financing/borrowing $80 to $100K+ Canadian for new trucks. In the early 2000's a new decent loaded truck was how much? I believe what you are pointing towards is the market may be more appealing if sleds were in a lower price range, with less conveniences. A truck s practical and 12 months of year use. But no one wants wind up windows, push button locks, am/fm radio, no AC and 2 wheel drive anymore. No longer practical. With sleds Its "winterkill" on the market with a lot of Northern US and Southern Canada not having the continued snowfall. Combine with paying insurance for a whole year on a sled by most insurers required. And almost not far off $300 for a trail permit to ride trails for a couple days or weeks here and there and the gear to go with it. Not practical Even without a GPS, digital speedo, tach, gauges, LED headlights, heated seat, etc. ATV/SXS are a good 8 - 10 months use, and are practical. But the market for SXS has all sorts of options from heaters, doors, rooftops, stereos etc etc and the prices have crept up because buyers want the conveniences with the practicality. Still practical tho based on user time alone. The sled price is not great for sure for that type of limited use now a days. And not everyone has a trailer and truck and can take days off work to chase snow up north. Not to mention water powersports getting one about 5 months use and Motorcycles 5 to 7 months use. Relatively practical. Sledding is no longer a practical hobby for 3 or 4 weeks over a winter. Or for 2 months in more predictable snowfall regions. I've been sledding since late 70's and i am not bound by a brand as I've had them all. Even if one buys a new sled today for $10 to $15k it still isn't practical. I don't buy another new sled as i put that money into a ATV or toward a side by side all day long. For certain of one thing tho if Cat isn't bought up by a CFMoto or they have a resurgence as a stand alone again with Gov't $ to keep them afloat. The used sled market will be on fire.
I learned to snowmobile when I was five years old on a 1961 Rupp in Minnesota. As I grew older I started dirt biking and snowmobiles less and less. But I watched the market because my dad used to go buy a huge trailer full of sleds at the factory, upgrade them for durability, and supply my uncles with sleds the broke down less often. Eventually some of his mods would start making it into the next year's sleds, the industry started watching my dad. People loved the trailers that he built too.
Decades passed, sleds got faster. I rode dirt bike up in Akeley, MN in the Paul Bunyan State Forest. All of the sudden all the cool snowmobile trails in the forest dried up because the sled got fast and the bar hoppers bailed on the trails, opting for the forest roads. Shortly after that Minnesota slapped a 55mph speed limit on the snowmobiles. That was crazy in a state that built so many of them.
When I would ice race motorcycles the snowmobilers would hang out and sometimes complain that we could go as fast as we wanted while they were limited to 55mph. I couldn't blame them. You can go as fast as you want on a Minnesota lake in a boat during the summer. But the sleds were limited.
My take on the snowmobile industry is that they failed to make good trail sleds in favor of rocket sleds. They killed the trails that kept the speeds down simply by their very nature. I loved those old trails and the sleds that favored them. But the industry decided to go fast, at least at first, because America is all about big numbers and any idiot can hold it wide open and blast down a lake or river. Radar runs became popular. So as the ADD sits on his heavy fast sled that would have a tough time in the now forgotten trails. I have to wonder if the industry would have built sleds that kept the fun trails fun if maybe they wouldn't be in the trouble that they are in now. And boy would there be some cool sleds on offer that could shred the tight trails of snowmobiling in its infancy.
I started riding ATVs when the ATC90 was the hot ticket. Look and the leviathans now and what they are doing to the trial systems.
I'll stick to dirt biking. They newest trails in Minnesota up near Two Harbors and actually tighter than in the past and Triumph and Ducati and jumping in to the dirt bike market. We dirt bikers my have a reputation for being Neanderthals. But unlike Neanderthals, we might just outlive the enthusiasts of other types of motorsports.
I live in New Hampshire now. The poor snowmobilers there hardly get any winter at all anymore. Minnesota had a crap winter last winter as well. It takes forever for the ice on the lakes in NH to get safe enough to plow an ice race track. You're lucky if you get a month out of the darn thing if you do. I go out west and ski all winter now. I'll be hitting the slopes in an hour or two. My Duluth buds were going to buy a few new snowmobiles last year and they were really happy that they held off. Some of those guys come to ski with us, particularly last winter.
Good luck snowmobilers. I still get out once in a while when someone lends me a sled. But really. I kind of wish the trails were tighter and the sled were lighter. There are way too many trails where all you do is pound whoops at speed for a mile or two at a time.
You're correct.... BUT..... the suspension travel on newer sleds is pretty fantastic, when it comes to trails that aren't maintained very well, which is literally most of them near me. IF they open. But this is why I have aircooled Yamaha Phazers. SO FUN! Light, simple, and your body english matters.
@@ADDvanced They were a step in the right direction. But instead of getting lighter with better suspension over time they gained a hundred pounds, over 25%. Not necessarily my idea of a bright future.
The Canadian government loans to BRP was not for the off road portion of company but for the aviation and train part. The two are completely separate from each other
However unfortunately BRP discontinued Evinrude outboards and that really sucks! I feel your frustration
Wrong. www.tradeonlytoday.com/tech/brp-secures-500-million-in-funding
@ interesting! My apologies, I was not aware of that. The world is definitely in a weird place right now. Very unstable long term for any company
@@JR-ho5qm Did you see the underwater outboard?
@ ya honestly it makes really good sense on the Manitou pontoon boats. Check them out it allows for a really big nice platform on the back
My dad built some of the first skid frames, my grandma use to sew Artic Cat snow suits, another uncle worked on early sleds and one other uncle races Artic Cat and is in the Snowmobile Race Hall of Fame.
Polaris is the smart one for continuing to produce and market the 550 fans.
This is a brilliant editorial. The best thing that our politicians could do is promote educational loans at zero percent interest. Following World War II, the G.I., Bill, which also promoted higher education, put our national economy on a springboard into the future.
A.I. and bots are creating a new boom for blue collar occupations. College is not the answer for many. We have to rethink traditional protocals, could very well be a waste of money.
But they won't, because they are all paid off. Instead they'll just barely show up to their jobs, make empty promises, and try to appeal to dumb people to get votes.
Pretty insightful synopsis there my friend. Good job! Unfortunately sometimes being right hurts.
Holy crap you nailed it on all fronts. I'm a retired 67 year old Machinist/Engineer/Manager with 45 years experience. I've seen this first hand. I'm glad you pointed out it's not a Biden thing but it will be a Trump thing if they follow his Terrif ideas. I have a 1980 Arctic Cat Panther air-cooled,leaf spring, light weight that works perfectly the way snowmobiles should be. You're also exactly right about Student loans not to mention all loans that are designed with all the interest stacked in front so you just can't get ahead. Just Sub'd.
Shit is going to get so much worse, and I won't do anything but laugh at all the MAGAs in tears.
@@ADDvanced 💯
You are 1,000% correct. Unfortunately most everyone likes to turn this into a political conversation, instead of just looking at actual facts. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. That’s not politics, that’s just truth.
Some good points and observations.
I dropped 16k 13 months ago on a new snowmobile. It hasn't left the garage. In the 60' and 70's we'd get plenty of snow in central/southern Minnesota. Not anymore. We understood this, and figured we could always go north an hour or two, but this really hasn't been the case so far.
Snowmobiles were $1400 or so in '75, which would be $8500 or so now with inflation adjustments. But modern technology, engine, suspensions etc have added thousands.
Investors demand ROI, and companies are expected to perform.
Not sure what the answer is.
Man very well said!! You made a lot of sense I mean a lot. I live in northern Minnesota basically the birthplace of Polaris and Artic Cat. You’re exactly right with the corporate greed exactly right. The same thing with Harley. Both industries are not attracting new young customers at all. Way to expensive
The Leadership is ALLLLL corporate boomers that want big paychecks; they don't even like the industry and they will gladly lead these companies to failure as long as they can keep getting giant paychecks.
Mechanical Engineer here with an MBA(in MN) and I did a financial analysis papers on Arctic Cat, Polaris, and HD in 2016. Submitted AC would go bankrupt within the year, which they did, and I had worked with Textron in the past. Polaris won't be far behind. It's the same across the board as you said in other words, but it's true. Laugh at the overflowing lots of trucks from all of the big 3, nobody can pay that unless it's a business tax write off!
AI has basically ruined the industrial design job market, thinking about getting an MBA since it seems like being a blood sucking parasite full of BS will never get replaced by AI. Thoughts?
Just got a 2018 zr 800 limited,I’m cat or die,we need better winters
We lived in Minnesota west of the Twin Cities. Every year on January one the temp would drop to30 below Fahrenheit.
My little sister moved to Kalamazoo Michigan. She said she didn’t like it. It was too warm for her.
@ I am in Wisconsin and last two winters havnt been good,I hope we get some soon
Not good is an understatement. They were basically non-existent.
@@ADDvanced ...and in my opinion, the lack of REAL winters is a big part of what is killing off snowmobiling. I am in Wisconsin and am an avid snowmobile enthusiast. Indeed the greed factor is definitely there, but as has been stated before, who wants to buy (at today's prices) a machine that will just be a trailer queen. I ride older iron for several reasons, not least of which is the cost factor. Being almost obsessive about snowmobiling, I sometimes even question the sanity of having two (or even one) sleds around when I MIGHT get to use them two or three times in a so-called "winter".
Putting weather aside, the lack of true entry level machines is another factor that I see hurting our sport. You can't (or at least shouldn't) put a kid on a 130+ HP sled and expect a good experience. I may be all wrong on this, but I think that if someone came up with a simple little one lunger fanner for beginners, it would sell quite well. And what about the trappers and ice fishermen who don't want to rip across a lake at 100+ MPH? I realize that is a small part of the motorsports market, but nonetheless I feel like we need someone to fill that void.
Of course there are a lot of older machines out there that fill these needs (wants), but the operative word here is older. Yes, I LOVE the older iron. I love riding them. I even love wrenching on them. BUT these machines are getting harder to find. Plus finding parts for them in many cases is unobtanium.
From my point of view, we need to have REAL winters again (which we have no control over) and we need to get the cost of these machines into a more affordable range. And let's see some simple beginner machines. I think those factors would go a long ways in helping to save our dying sport.
Sorry, I kind of jumped on a soapbox here. I just feel passionate about our sport, even as I watch it dying off. A am, and always WILL be an avid snowmobile enthusiast. Even though we don't have real winters anymore, I still love to get out for a rip or two any time I can. Nothing better than an afternoon ride on the trails...when we have the snow to actually ride.
This is the most spot on, direct to the point video I have seen on this subject. America is falling fast due to corporate greed! Never been a cat fan but you make me wanna trade in my ski-doo’s now lol. I did get my son a z370 this year. Now if we could just get a winter back in Wisconsin…
Thanks. I was holding back a lot because i can't say what I want without getting banned or sued. Cheers man!
Nice video. I retired from Polaris in march 2024 after 18 years. Without a doubt the snowmobile market is in trouble an has been for at least 8 years. You made many good points about the industry. No one builds what the average person can aford. Just Waite The auto industry is not far behind.I want to end with Our first sled was a 1968 Fox trac.It makes me sad to see this happen to Arctic Cat. I don't think is going to stop with Arctic Cat.
If anyone thinks the next 4 years are going to get better.... just.... lol
I live in Northern Michigan. We
Set records for snowfall a couple weeks ago. 46.3 inches
In two days, then another 20+
I inches,twice. Almost 100 inches so far. It rained all day
Today and we have maybe 6
Inches on the ground. This has
Been a pattern for the last 4 years. Our town used to be a
Snowmobile mecca. It's pretty sad. I have two sleds and they
Probably won't come off the trailer this year. Say hello to the future.
@@billbertagnoli4226 I live in Michigan too and I feel your pain. You have to be ready to ride when the hits, because you can count on it being gone in week.
I live in Ontario, I burned maybe 10 gallons of fuel last winter. I didn't even burn 5 gallons yet this year. We had this before though, early 80's were bad then we got good snow in the late 80's early 90's then late 90s's were bad then early 2000's got better and mid 2010's were excellent now we are back to bad winters since 2022 or so. I think it is just wind patterns, you need the North Polar vortex winds to get cold and snow.
@@davidbrennan5 You should watch this video, David.
ua-cam.com/video/gX3vtpUqwk8/v-deo.html
@@ADDvanced We are in an El Niño, this is expected to last through 2024, same thing happened in 1997-1998. I was snowmobiling in the rain in February. In the early 80's we literally had no snow, this is a pattern. If you look at climate data during the turn of the century the world was actually hotter, this data doesn't support the global warming narrative. Cut down an old tree and you see some years had good growth and some didn't. The Canadian government omitted 100 years of temperature data from their climate change models.
@@davidbrennan5 Watch the vid man
My dad bought a ski-doo back in the day, it had one cylinder, and we had more fun with that machine. You would not believe it. I have so many memories pulling a toboggan on the lake with that machine, we had a blast. Back in 1970 my dad bought a 634 moto ski snowmobile. That was the fastest snowmobile I ever rode, I never found out how fast it went, never opened it up. The last snowmobile my dad bought was I think it was a 1971 Nordic Ski-doo. Once the snowmobile slide rail suspension became popular the price of the machines went up. My dad just said snowmobiles have become too expensive for me. I had never rode a snowmobile with the slide rail suspension, only the ones with the bogie wheel suspension.
A smaller version of the auto industry?
100% agree. A new snowmobile is more expensive than I could ever afford now. Shareholders above customers...
I loved my ZR580.. I put a 2" paddle track under it..
You lost me when you inferred it has nothing to do with politics.
It has EVERYTHING to do with politics.
Regulations raise costs. Wages raise costs. Social programs raise costs....Etc.
Every time costs rise it creates an environment of unaffordability.
The lack of Disposable and Discrentionary income is 100% the issue.
Legislating materials cost hikes and wage hikes leads exactly to the economy we have today.
Our leaders are killing our own country over greed...Moreso than company owners, company ceo's and stockholders.
Sure but it’s not “bidenflation”. Our politicians are bought and paid for by corporate America, both sides, which is why it’s just getting worse for literal decades now.
I was 10 years old in the early 80's and had an Arctic Cat Pantera. It was the fastest best looking sled on the lakes of Michigan.
I had a matching Snowmobile Suit (Black Yellow and Orange) with a matching Black Helmet.
The memories I had on this sled.
It's a shame to see the Cat retire.
Closing Artic Cat will Help Polaris for sure. Both Polaris and Arctic Cat are owned by Textron. The Irony that one of the Brothers that founded Polaris left and started Arctic Cat because he wanted to build recreational sleds not just sleds for Farmers, Trappers an d ice fisherman. "Utility Sleds"
Probably not, Polaris is in trouble also. They have been dumping their junk to long. Nobody is interested in either of them.
@@Miner-49 Polaris owns Indian and they have a lot of Military Contracts building Military Vehicles. Many of them are Electric. Polaris Partnered with Zero Motorcycles for their technolgy ..
Harley Davidson reneged on a contract with an EV Motorcycle CO and Bankrupted them.
Polaris is owned by vanguard and Blackrock. Not textron
Yup, Polaris "was" owned by textron from 1968 until 1981. Vanguard & blackrock own about 10ish % each now.
Polaris was started in Roseau MN. in 1954 by David Johnson and brothers Edgar & Allen Heteen. Edgar left the Company and started Arctic Enterprises in Thief River Falls MN. in 1960.
We have debated many times the advantage of renting a sled at a tourist location, as opposed to buying, maintaining, storing, insuring, license and trail permits for a snowmobile, add the cost of a trailer and vehicle big enough to tow that. It makes more sense to pick up a phone, rent your room and a sled, if it breaks down, they swop it out.
Well said, and KTM is next too, it’s not just snowmobiles!
Premium bro, premium, let's just make it a little more premium! Who cares if it's affordable to young people, in fact, who cares what they even want! Let's market everything just to old wealthy people bro, it will pump our quarter profits bro, just a little more bro, let's get that dentist money bro, let's make it cost just a little more bro, let's not make it exciting or fun, let's focus on luxury, bro! Profits bro! Profits!
I wonderd how long I would have to scroll until I'd see someone pointing KTM out - not long!
I remember the day Polaris was going to buy KTM. The KTM board refused to have Polaris own them outright and only allowed them to have a 20% stake. Looking back, that was the best thing that happened for Polaris.
@@jasons2054I’m 58, I’ve had power sports since I was 12, a long time, newest sled I have right now is, 1996, newest motorcycle, 2008, newest tractor, 1991, newest car, 2012, newest house, 1950, safe to say, new stuff costs wayyy to much
@@phazerworld6300 You're right. If this economy keeps on as it has been, you might see a couple auto manufacturers go under. It seems like even comfortable people are feeling the outrageous prices on vehicles and powersports.