You know, after watching the first Observation video I was thinking to myself, “he must be really smart to see all these hidden themes because I never would of thought of half of this if I was analyzing the game,” and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you shouldn’t take a critic’s words at face value if you haven’t played the game yourself. Also, The Last of Us 2 is a great example of forcing you to do something then saying, “woah there hotshot! You’re a pretty bad son of a bitch! Don’t you know that woman was PREGNANT?”
imo the biggest red flag for these kinds of schizo hypotheses is if/when it uses an unfalsifiable thesis that gives itself a way to explain inconsistencies. They can definitely be entertaining to ponder, but they're usually horseshit
I only came across you because of this most recent podcast with PatricianTV you did. I watched through all but the last couple of minutes of your Observation video (I guess I picked that one first because my primitive ape brain was charmed by the image of Saturn), and the reason I didn't watch all of it was because it felt like the "SAM made it all up" felt like a huge ass-pull. Seeing that this video was on the side, then checking to make sure it was relevant to the Observation video, I went ahead and got into this because I wanted to hear more about that game that was your actual analysis of the game rather than a thinly veiled build-up to a 'gotcha' in a later video. Before I knew that this video was there, and relevant to the Observation video, I'll be honest I wasn't too keen on continuing to watch your content if that's the sort of take I was going to be getting in them. Also, I think that the goo tentacles that burst out of SAM's chamber(?) while you were saying "This stuff is physical manifestation of his corruption" was what really got me.
Also building on the but where you talk about games that question the moral compass of the player/player, have you played Spec Ops The Line? I feel like that nails it with the meta narrative that we play games to feel like a hero
The most frustrating thing to hear from that dev is how the game would make you think about these moral choices, and instead THEY think about the moral choices, choose, and force you to choose their choice. That isn’t fucking choice, that’s scripting.
I think I would like to see more games in the "style" of this one, that being an AI doing tasks, and observing a crew in the midst of a horror story, without the story stigma of an "Evil AI". The example of the "Open the door, damn you! And then the AI doesn't because opening the door would kill everyone else" is not a good example of "Evil AI". Because the AI is just doing what it considers the most optimal.
yes, you're correct about HAL. Not sure exactly where it is mention, but HAL got 2 objectives which contradicted each other which led to its corruption if I remember correctly
Yeah, HAL9000 definitely isn't as evil as stuff like the movie made him out to be. He actually takes on a more heroic role in the sequel book/movie, 2010: Odyssey Two/The Year We Make Contact.
If you haven't already you really should play Soma! Moral choices wise I don't think I've ever played a better game. On another hand I'm not sure of how a dev could present the "evil AI" trope from the AI perspective, all the while involving the player's moral compass/having the player make some choices. What I mean by that is that when you want to do an evil AI you're left with two choices: a fully-fledged AI that can think for itself, but then the AI is no different than a regular human in its actions, or a more "basic" down to earth AI with goals to accomplish but due to a lack of limitation will take actions to accomplish that goal that we will perceive as morally wrong, and in this case, the player wouldn't have a choice anywhere as an AI would respond in the most logical/efficient way to any given situation in the limitations of the information it's given. I'm not sure if that made much sense to you but I tl;dr: I don't think a "play as the evil ai" game can be anything but linear with no choices involved
@@Tetramorre I just don't really see how there would be a choice to make (and thus challenge the player's morality) for a game with an AI that's not fully thinking as a human would (and by that definition it being evil wouldn't have any more/less of an impact than a regular bad guy) since every decision should be the most logical. But yeah somebody could prove me wrong, humans are hella creative
You know, after watching the first Observation video I was thinking to myself, “he must be really smart to see all these hidden themes because I never would of thought of half of this if I was analyzing the game,” and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you shouldn’t take a critic’s words at face value if you haven’t played the game yourself.
Also, The Last of Us 2 is a great example of forcing you to do something then saying, “woah there hotshot! You’re a pretty bad son of a bitch! Don’t you know that woman was PREGNANT?”
How dare you make me wait an entire millisecond continue from the cliffhanger of the last video 😩
imo the biggest red flag for these kinds of schizo hypotheses is if/when it uses an unfalsifiable thesis that gives itself a way to explain inconsistencies. They can definitely be entertaining to ponder, but they're usually horseshit
I only came across you because of this most recent podcast with PatricianTV you did. I watched through all but the last couple of minutes of your Observation video (I guess I picked that one first because my primitive ape brain was charmed by the image of Saturn), and the reason I didn't watch all of it was because it felt like the "SAM made it all up" felt like a huge ass-pull. Seeing that this video was on the side, then checking to make sure it was relevant to the Observation video, I went ahead and got into this because I wanted to hear more about that game that was your actual analysis of the game rather than a thinly veiled build-up to a 'gotcha' in a later video. Before I knew that this video was there, and relevant to the Observation video, I'll be honest I wasn't too keen on continuing to watch your content if that's the sort of take I was going to be getting in them.
Also, I think that the goo tentacles that burst out of SAM's chamber(?) while you were saying "This stuff is physical manifestation of his corruption" was what really got me.
Also building on the but where you talk about games that question the moral compass of the player/player, have you played Spec Ops The Line? I feel like that nails it with the meta narrative that we play games to feel like a hero
I have not, still meaning to get around to it
The most frustrating thing to hear from that dev is how the game would make you think about these moral choices, and instead THEY think about the moral choices, choose, and force you to choose their choice.
That isn’t fucking choice, that’s scripting.
Wow! That was really deep and thought provoking.
I think I would like to see more games in the "style" of this one, that being an AI doing tasks, and observing a crew in the midst of a horror story, without the story stigma of an "Evil AI".
The example of the "Open the door, damn you! And then the AI doesn't because opening the door would kill everyone else" is not a good example of "Evil AI". Because the AI is just doing what it considers the most optimal.
I agree. Fascinating concept, bad execution
yes, you're correct about HAL. Not sure exactly where it is mention, but HAL got 2 objectives which contradicted each other which led to its corruption if I remember correctly
That's because we should never be vain enough to hard code don't hurt humans into AI.
Yeah, HAL9000 definitely isn't as evil as stuff like the movie made him out to be. He actually takes on a more heroic role in the sequel book/movie, 2010: Odyssey Two/The Year We Make Contact.
anyways. I still have no fucking clue what exactly was happening in the game and in the end.
I guess Emma became the starchild lol
I was bamboozled
If you haven't already you really should play Soma! Moral choices wise I don't think I've ever played a better game. On another hand I'm not sure of how a dev could present the "evil AI" trope from the AI perspective, all the while involving the player's moral compass/having the player make some choices. What I mean by that is that when you want to do an evil AI you're left with two choices: a fully-fledged AI that can think for itself, but then the AI is no different than a regular human in its actions, or a more "basic" down to earth AI with goals to accomplish but due to a lack of limitation will take actions to accomplish that goal that we will perceive as morally wrong, and in this case, the player wouldn't have a choice anywhere as an AI would respond in the most logical/efficient way to any given situation in the limitations of the information it's given. I'm not sure if that made much sense to you but I tl;dr: I don't think a "play as the evil ai" game can be anything but linear with no choices involved
Perhaps you are right. Maybe someone out there will prove that wrong someday lol
@@Tetramorre I just don't really see how there would be a choice to make (and thus challenge the player's morality) for a game with an AI that's not fully thinking as a human would (and by that definition it being evil wouldn't have any more/less of an impact than a regular bad guy) since every decision should be the most logical. But yeah somebody could prove me wrong, humans are hella creative
"The only way to maintain any sense of morales is to not play"
Doesn't hotline miami do this too?
I’ve heard it does something to that effect but I haven’t played it so I’m not gonna make that judgement call lol
@@Tetramorre Im pretty sure this is what the original message was, it helps the game was cheap too
I think you probably have to play Miles Morales, or at least watch some UA-cam vids of the game, to get a sense of him as a character...