@@liamg353 Very close in terms of quality. I think EGS performance was better then BG but BG was the better horse in the long run like Frankel. EGS was a pure miler.
@@liamg353 I think rainbow Quest in 4th trumps BGs Guineas in term of quality. That's the line that makes this race amazing and makes Frankel's Guineas from look very very average.Also EGS had loads in the tank at a mile here.
Top class absolutely winner exceptional. Unbelievable watching him quicken twice especially against these. Chief singer was brilliant. Maybe the best certainly right up there as sprinter 6f horse. Actually think these two El Gran senor-chief singer underated. Imo without question the best 2000 guineas winner. Put it this way Frankels win in his 2000 was way behind ELS. He was drunk at finish. When you see a horse like El Gran senor who travels with so much speed yet stays 10f and keep quickening. Judge him with chief singer speed wise July cup winner beating brilliant sprinters easily not to mention st James palace by 10l. I just think on 2000 guineas performances 1984 the best. Visually, horses, form wise, speed figures.
Just think in his previous race the gladness stakes he wiped the floor with saddlers Wells who then beat procida and the secreto imo the best crop of 3y olds ever,
@@robertdelacy3434Ryan Moore is in the same league as PE LP SC WC and the likes from back in the day P RIP’, beautiful horseman, gentle soft hands, so he had 🏇🙏
A truly brilliant horse. He was a touch lazy as he had a good few runs as a two year old and I remember some close finishes beating a horse called sign of life a couple of times. You could see El Gran senor playing like when eddery pushed him response was instant then stop in front. I saw him quicken up two or three times as a 2year old as he seemed to go asleep when in front. You think he was going to be past and then suddenly bang go again when pushed. Without doubt on their respective 2000 guineas wins El Gran senor would have easily beat Frankel. Mainly because at that stage of Frankel's career he wouldn't settle and would finish very tired like in his next race st James palace. Cecil trained him very well and knew well not to go to epsom as would have destroyed him. Anyway El Gran senor beat a truly brilliant horse in chief singer, just look at him winning the st James palace by many lengths and easily won July cup beating top class sprinters like never so bold, committed. The speed El Gran senor showed here you can picture him without doubt been top class over 6f also not to mention the two derby's he ran in. Frankel tearing away like that would have been no prob to El Gran senor as he had abundance of speed and stamina. The difference as 2000 guineas horses is El Gran senor would settle and could be ridden anywhere. He still would finish really strongly. Now as Frankel matured especially as a 4year old then what a race it would be. I wouldn't be sure been honest but if I had too I would pick El Gran senor cause of wonderful natural ability and temperament. You could ride him anyway.
Without doubt you say ? Yes maybe YOU have no doubts but please don’t speak for the rest of us . Your right , he didn’t truly stay a mile n a half so that’s poor judgement for once on Vincent and Roberts behalf . Also they didn’t want to take a chance on him as a 4yo , Frankel was even better as a 4yo . So , good as The Big Man was , Frankel is just ahead in my opinion , and he is WAY better at stud too. 👍🏴
El Gran Senor was at least 10 lengths better than Saddler’s Wells. By far the best of the over 60 Group Winning Horses I’ve sat on. Would be interesting to hear how Vincent Rossiter, who rode him most of the time, would rate him against Nijinsky and Sir Ivor today
Chief Singer was top-class sprinter who stretched to win the Sussex Stakes over a mile. El Gran Senor was a top-class middle-distance horse with a mile and a half his absolute limit.
Frankel is a great horse, but the first 4 in this beat the second in his 2000 Guineas so easily. It would be a joke. Nobody beats Rainbow Quest by 10 lenghts. Rainbow Quest, Arc winner, Coronation Stakes winner. I think 1984,1985,1986, the depth of British horse racing Group 1 horses was amazing. Horses like Enable would be also rans in the big G1 races in this Era. El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Sadler's Wells, Bering, Petoski, Chief Singer, Green Desert, Triptych,Chief Singer, Shahrastani , Shardari ,Sagace ,Slip Anchor, Rainbow Quest all probably better than any horse Frankel beat. Personally I think Frankel beats them most of the time, but would have not gone 14 wins against them. Definitely loses by 5l ,the 2000 Guineas to El Gran Senor.
@@ordy2429 Aa a 4yo.he beats them. Frankel was cooked at the end of his 2000 Guineas, Rainbow Quest comes in an easy easy second in Frankels joke of a 2000 Guineas field. I don't think the distance matters.
What great race. This Guineas is the benchmark for ratings. Only Brigadier Gerard and Dancing Brave came up against anything like the class of the horses in this race. I firmly believe El Gran Senor would have been unbeatable over 10 furlongs. He barely stayed 12 furlongs and the only reason he went for the Derby was to increase his value at stud. Even then, he should have won the Derby.
@@padraigohooligan8363 Sadly, we'll never know but they were both great horses, sir. And then there was Mill Reef. Would he have beaten the Brigadier over 1m4f?
Yes he did say that which suprised me because I thought he said dancing brave was the fastest,,all exceptional Frankel at shorter distances,, personally dancing brave for his arc run
Frankle finishes 3rd in this. Head off like a lunatic in this field, you get caight in the first two on the bridle with 100 meters to go amd look like a chump. But Frankle eats them as a 4yo
On their 2000 guineas performances 1st El Gran senor, 2nd dancing brave, 3rd pacemaker tearaway Frankel. His last 2f in guineas was very poor at this level. He did improve significantly with age/ maturity though but certainly not guineas time
The second in Frankels 2000 might come in sixth in this. Frankel is a great horse but his 2000 Guineas was a very very poor field and he only beat the second by 5 lenghts and was exhausted. The 4th in El Gran Senors Guineas was Rainbow Quest. Look him up. Easily Better then any horse Frankel beat.
@@genuinematerial6618 Mill reef was not as fast as Chief Singer, great as he was. Not even close. Over a mile Chief Singer eats him for breakfast in a canter. Over 10f Mill reef wins.
The best ever guineas bar non,what a race of pure quality
The best quality race probably off all time,this was a era of puree brilliance
What a horse. One of the best 2000 guineas ever.
@Stephen Small wouldn't go that far he only ever won once at a mile
@Stephen Small I would say 2nd best field. Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, My Swallow the first 3 in the 1971 Guineas was the best in my opinion.
@@liamg353 Very close in terms of quality. I think EGS performance was better then BG but BG was the better horse in the long run like Frankel. EGS was a pure miler.
@@liamg353 I think rainbow Quest in 4th trumps BGs Guineas in term of quality. That's the line that makes this race amazing and makes Frankel's Guineas from look very very average.Also EGS had loads in the tank at a mile here.
Top class absolutely winner exceptional. Unbelievable watching him quicken twice especially against these. Chief singer was brilliant. Maybe the best certainly right up there as sprinter 6f horse. Actually think these two El Gran senor-chief singer underated. Imo without question the best 2000 guineas winner. Put it this way Frankels win in his 2000 was way behind ELS. He was drunk at finish. When you see a horse like El Gran senor who travels with so much speed yet stays 10f and keep quickening. Judge him with chief singer speed wise July cup winner beating brilliant sprinters easily not to mention st James palace by 10l. I just think on 2000 guineas performances 1984 the best. Visually, horses, form wise, speed figures.
Truly devastating.
BEST 2000G ever
Just think in his previous race the gladness stakes he wiped the floor with saddlers Wells who then beat procida and the secreto imo the best crop of 3y olds ever,
Best guineas field ever,vintage classic generation,
Fabulous racehorse with a great temperament, very laid back and chilled, one of my absolute favourites. Thank you for uploading.
Pat Eddery one of the best jockeys of his generation.
Of any generation the new lot aren't in his leauge
@@robertdelacy3434Ryan Moore is in the same league as PE LP SC WC and the likes from back in the day P RIP’, beautiful horseman, gentle soft hands, so he had 🏇🙏
A truly brilliant horse. He was a touch lazy as he had a good few runs as a two year old and I remember some close finishes beating a horse called sign of life a couple of times. You could see El Gran senor playing like when eddery pushed him response was instant then stop in front. I saw him quicken up two or three times as a 2year old as he seemed to go asleep when in front. You think he was going to be past and then suddenly bang go again when pushed. Without doubt on their respective 2000 guineas wins El Gran senor would have easily beat Frankel. Mainly because at that stage of Frankel's career he wouldn't settle and would finish very tired like in his next race st James palace. Cecil trained him very well and knew well not to go to epsom as would have destroyed him. Anyway El Gran senor beat a truly brilliant horse in chief singer, just look at him winning the st James palace by many lengths and easily won July cup beating top class sprinters like never so bold, committed. The speed El Gran senor showed here you can picture him without doubt been top class over 6f also not to mention the two derby's he ran in. Frankel tearing away like that would have been no prob to El Gran senor as he had abundance of speed and stamina. The difference as 2000 guineas horses is El Gran senor would settle and could be ridden anywhere. He still would finish really strongly. Now as Frankel matured especially as a 4year old then what a race it would be. I wouldn't be sure been honest but if I had too I would pick El Gran senor cause of wonderful natural ability and temperament. You could ride him anyway.
Absolutly agree
Perfect Analysis. Frankel would have been caught inside the last 100 meters and destroyed by 5l if he ran in this race.
Without doubt you say ? Yes maybe YOU have no doubts but please don’t speak for the rest of us .
Your right , he didn’t truly stay a mile n a half so that’s poor judgement for once on Vincent and Roberts behalf . Also they didn’t want to take a chance on him as a 4yo , Frankel was even better as a 4yo . So , good as The Big Man was , Frankel is just ahead in my opinion , and he is WAY better at stud too.
👍🏴
El Gran Senor was at least 10 lengths better than Saddler’s Wells. By far the best of the over 60 Group Winning Horses I’ve sat on. Would be interesting to hear how Vincent Rossiter, who rode him most of the time, would rate him against Nijinsky and Sir Ivor today
One of the Great races.
The first 4 home in that race was fantastic horses
Chief Singer was top-class sprinter who stretched to win the Sussex Stakes over a mile. El Gran Senor was a top-class middle-distance horse with a mile and a half his absolute limit.
Frankel is a great horse, but the first 4 in this beat the second in his 2000 Guineas so easily. It would be a joke. Nobody beats Rainbow Quest by 10 lenghts.
Rainbow Quest, Arc winner, Coronation Stakes winner. I think 1984,1985,1986, the depth of British horse racing Group 1 horses was amazing. Horses like Enable would be also rans in the big G1 races in this Era. El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Sadler's Wells, Bering, Petoski, Chief Singer, Green Desert, Triptych,Chief Singer, Shahrastani , Shardari ,Sagace ,Slip Anchor, Rainbow Quest all probably better than any horse Frankel beat. Personally I think Frankel beats them most of the time, but would have not gone 14 wins against them. Definitely loses by 5l ,the 2000 Guineas to El Gran Senor.
Excellent point.
Rainbow Quest was never a 1 mile horse. Frankel would have destroyed this field.
@@ordy2429
Aa a 4yo.he beats them.
Frankel was cooked at the end of his 2000 Guineas, Rainbow Quest comes in an easy easy second in Frankels joke of a 2000 Guineas field. I don't think the distance matters.
That was 1 race?@@michaeldowd5545
@@michaeldowd5545 Of course it matters.
What great race. This Guineas is the benchmark for ratings. Only Brigadier Gerard and Dancing Brave came up against anything like the class of the horses in this race. I firmly believe El Gran Senor would have been unbeatable over 10 furlongs. He barely stayed 12 furlongs and the only reason he went for the Derby was to increase his value at stud. Even then, he should have won the Derby.
The Senor would never have beaten The Brigadier over any distance.
@@padraigohooligan8363 Sadly, we'll never know but they were both great horses, sir. And then there was Mill Reef. Would he have beaten the Brigadier over 1m4f?
What a monster of a horse,the best ever guineas
Best ever 2000 guineas, what horses behind, wow
the Senor quickened TWICE
Its so hard to say what is the best el gran senior,,Frankel or the brilliant dancing brave,,,all exceptional,,the best in 40 years them 3
8/10 Furlongs Frankel
12 Furlongs Dancing Brave
@@ordy2429
In the 2000 Guineas form EGS.
This was a special race and there is no way the second in Frankels 2000 would finish in the top 5 here.
None that would be golden fleece great though they all were
The best eddery ever rode and he stated this that it was golden fleece
Yes he did say that which suprised me because I thought he said dancing brave was the fastest,,all exceptional Frankel at shorter distances,, personally dancing brave for his arc run
Eddery said the horse didnt win the Derby because he stopped when he was in front. There was no sign of him stopping there.
God how good golden fleece must have been if pat said he was the best he rode awesome .el gran senor was special
I believe the fleece was better than dancing brave
By stones best miler ever
Frankel has a historical Timeform rating of 147. The Senor has a rating of 136.
The joke of the century
Remember guys Frankel was whipped hard 4 times in his poor 2000 Guineas.
The first 2 were not touched here.
El Gran Senor is the best miler ever.
Tenue,acceleration dual,cruising speed. Uncomparable Horse.
The people paid to do the comparing, assess Frankel as much better.
pat eddery at his best legend rip my hero
Any polite person can details fractional times??
Didnt make a great stallion but sad he never won at epsom.he was a better horse than secreto but got mugged
Pat Eddery was a great jockey but if Lester had ridden this horse he'd have won the Derby.
Frankle finishes 3rd in this. Head off like a lunatic in this field, you get caight in the first two on the bridle with 100 meters to go amd look like a chump.
But Frankle eats them as a 4yo
He would have destroyed Frankel.
yes what a 2000 guineas that was loaded with class would have loved el gran senor frankel and dancing brave to race each other thanks for message
On their 2000 guineas performances 1st El Gran senor, 2nd dancing brave, 3rd pacemaker tearaway Frankel. His last 2f in guineas was very poor at this level. He did improve significantly with age/ maturity though but certainly not guineas time
Nope
@@ordy2429
Who did Frankel beat? Nothing Did Frankel finish full of running? Nope.
Timeform ratings suggest otherwise.
Not the best winner of the 2,000 Guineas , that was Frankel
In my opinion that was Brigadier Gerard, Nothing in Fankels Guineas of note. Mill Reef well was beaten by the Brigadier and look what he done.
@@liamg353 I agree 100% Brigadier Gerard beat better horses in his 2000 guineas that included the great Mill Reef and My Swallow
The second in Frankels 2000 might come in sixth in this. Frankel is a great horse but his 2000 Guineas was a very very poor field and he only beat the second by 5 lenghts and was exhausted.
The 4th in El Gran Senors Guineas was Rainbow Quest.
Look him up. Easily Better then any horse Frankel beat.
No.EGS would beat Frankel with absolute ease.
@@genuinematerial6618 Mill reef was not as fast as Chief Singer, great as he was. Not even close. Over a mile Chief Singer eats him for breakfast in a canter. Over 10f Mill reef wins.