THE ACOLYTE is Canceled! What's Next for STAR WARS? Featuring Andres Cabrera!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Is the cancellation of THE ACOLYTE a bad omen for the future of STAR WARS? Andres Cabrera joins DJ and Roxy to discuss the abrupt end of the divisive show. THE ACOLYTE, created by Leslye Headland and starring Amandla Stenberg, Lee Jung-jae, Manny Jacinto, Charlie Barnett, and Dafne Keen met significant backlash from the fandom, but was it warranted? Is there a future for STAR WARS beyond the Mandalorian (Pedro Pascal), Grogu, and Ahsoka (Rosario Dawson), and should we be worried for the cast of the SKELETON CREW?
#starwars #theacolyte #themandalorian #grogu #ahsoka #lukeskywalker #darthvader #darthmaul #bobafett #skeletoncrew
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I liked parts of the acolyte but it had a ton of flaws. I ignore toxic not legitimate comments about the show but there is a lot valid criticism from a ton of reputable critics and reviewers. The main reason why season 2 was cancelled was because of the viewership numbers, and most of that is the general public that doesn’t focus on online discourse. Andor had low viewership numbers but it got critical acclaim and Emmy noms.
Oh 😳 DJs lost his mind lol.. when you say there’s no legit criticism or valid points from the other side. This guy is the Skip Bayless of comic book movies. He’s just a contrarian. He likes anything that’ll mess up the established rules or lore. 🤷🏾♂️ & what is Roxy talking about about with the kids thing? We didn’t know talk bad about the stranger things kids.. last time that happened was with Jake Lloyd unless there’s so kind of race or lgbt agenda attached to the child. I think ppl are Koo wit that now
Look i agree no one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans. But to sit here and say 50-60% are racist is such an echo chamber answer. Where is the hate for the non binary and people of color in game of thrones? Look I’m apathetic to Star Wars at this point. I don’t really care cause it’s become a culture war battleground and you have shills who will love everything Disney puts out and you have people who shit on anything that comes out. I don’t want to engage with a show that has its lead make a diss track about the fans. That isn’t gonna help
There are legit criticisms of the show, but plain in simply after the first 2 episodes did great, the ratings declined for each episode. In modern TV a show costing $180 million dollars simply needs to be a hit out the gate. The Amazon Lord of the Rings show always was planned for 2 seasons and the amount they paid to buy those tv rights, 10 people could have watched that show, it was getting a season 2, it's anomaly. "Andor got a season 2, it didn't have great ratings", not at first but the ratings constantly increased and the critical acclaim & Emmys. Look at Fallout, which budget is comparable to Acolyte, did amazing and is doing amazing. Critical, Emmy nominations, and one of the top 5 watched shows this year. Also a very diverse cast and is a female led show. Shogun & House of the Dragon, same thing, 2 of the top 5 shows of the year, diverse cast and one is a female led show. It's viewership, I personally didn't like the show, but how many shows and movies the critics & haters didn't like got sequels or other more seasons.
Really loved this episode and Andres takes here really putting out the the organized timeline of hate that happened that I wasn't really privy to. To put in perspective I'm an afro-latina who never was into Star Wars couldn't get into it and I havent really watched any of it. I will say what pushed me to get into this show was seeing fanedits on tiktok and twitter of manny i wont deny that but I stayed for the show and characters itself because it finally felt like I was being seen and I enjoyed the story. So to then see its canceled to see the massive hate and vitrol for the cast and crew its disheartening and it just proves that this is a fandom that i have to be careful with because the hate can be severe. I dont know if I want to continue my journey after the cancellation as well because it just shows me who disney and lucasfilm is listening to and its not me .
I'm normal person! 😄👍🏻 "It's not for me; don't watch it, Gus." (That's what I do with Rings of Power.)
Funny enough, I didn't like The Acolyte, but I was curious to get to the end. I never spoke bad stuff about it though with people who were enjoying it (except the "it didn't work for me" thing), and I always encourage people who like it to be happy about it! 😌🧡
I have watched very few episodes of this show, but I'm glad I found you guys! Chill talk, good hearts. (Nerd content...) The kind of show I like. 😄🧡
“God dammit Hector” is the funniest possible line for this video that doesn’t even feature Hector to end on 😂
I'm glad you guys are talking about these issues. I've hated the Star Wars fanbase for years now and it's nice to finally get one explanation as to why. Love the discussion, try to ignore the hateful comments. Keep up the great work.
37:24 but there can still be criticism. I don’t think people who make acolyte or really any show or movie do it with the idea “this is only for the people who I KNOW will like it,” they’re usually doing it with the idea of getting everybody they can. The companies that fund these projects certainly want that. Not every story or product needs to be the same or geared towards the same demographic; but that idea alone doesn’t absolve it from being analyzed and critiqued. A lot of people did not LIKE those two shows you mentioned. And just saying well not every show is for one person is true, but it doesn’t really say anything. This show isn’t for everyone AND it didn’t catch nearly as many people as they wanted it. Haters are gonna hate, but why did casuals not care? Why did fans not like it? What DID fans like? Why did the show fail overall? Let’s be genuine.
But as we argue, it wasn't allowed the space to breath and find its audience, and while the show is open to critique, much of the fan backlash around shows like THE ACOLYTE and SHE-HULK is made in bad faith. No Marvel or Star Wars property would stand up to the minutiae driven criticism leveled at the these shows.
@@djtalkstrash X-Men 97 had the same kind of criticism before it came out. But it was good so it died out.
I'm not saying there aren't bad apples in the fandom, but saying there aren't valid criticism is dismissive and for me a little toxic too.
@@djtalkstrash It's strange that you believe that a Fortune 100 company will base commercial discissions on what Dude-bros say on youtube instead of sophisticated audience modelling and internal sales data. This is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the idea that the normie viewer in even aware on the online discourse. How many views did these UA-camr get?
The whole analysis in this video is driven by bias and is unburdened by reason.
BTW, I am a middle-aged black man. Just saying before I'm told that I don't like black people.
My Favorite is Captain America: The Winter Soldier and I loved She-Hulk. 😁
It feels like a bad move for chickfila. They should just buy or partner with already established faith based networks like GAC or UP
what roxy is here too... shes the best
Where did this come from? (Toxic fandom.)
They didn't come from Twitter, but Twitter, Facebook potentialized it. Twitter began to become huge between 2009 and 2010, but I think Andres is right, it kinda began around 2014, 2015.
Why don't they just make a show that is good enough to not be cancelled, because enough people love it? Weird thought...
Hey, gang!
I have a question that I hope you could help me out with -- how are streaming platforms actually making profit? What are the revenue streams aside from users paying their monthly fees?
Everything I read is expecting me to believe there are a seemingly limitless supply of new subscribers signing up every month and about how the business model is based on subscribers staying subscribed and paying the fee every month.
Anecdotally I can say it is very common for users to service-hop, subsisting on free trials of streaming services and cancelling before money needs to be paid.
As for the myriad new subscribers, there is a glass ceiling on how many people are going to subscribe. As of August 2024, is there anybody out there who wants Disney Plus and isn't subscribed yet?
I guess I just don't understand where higher profits are meant to be coming from once a platform has achieved its maximum sustainable number of subscribers.
Nobody knows.
I always wonder the same thing.
There's several ways they make money subscription service, content licensing, partnerships, merchandise sales, and ad-supported plan also this might or not be a thing but meta data has value in the marketing landscape as if they know the type of shows you like they know what to advertise to you so you feel a need to buy. When ever anything is able to get a lot of eyeballs on itself most probably there's going to be a way to monetize it, influence is profitable.
Diversity this Diversity that, why don't y'all ever point out that the only people watching these diverse shows are white males over 30? Y'all can't say racism is a big contributer when the actual demographics Disney is marketing to don't show up either. That right there shows you the real problem is that the shows are just bad. Even more so when in The Acolytes case, they had much bigger numbers for the first two episodes. The fact that you then had such consecutive drop off episode after episode tells you people are not connecting with the product.
Those demographics did show up, but it wasn't enough for the show to get picked up again. The people who liked the show were there, it was just the noise surrounding it that made it harder for those people to be seen. As well as generally the audience for Star Wars isn't as strong as it used to be, because while there is still a passion for it the general audience isn't there as much.
Look up the demographics breakdown. They factually did NOT show up.
@@GhostPro29I think you're severely overstating the impact of that noise. Most people aren't online. Very little fandom actually engages with online accounts. The intended demo for the product did not show up. I would assume bc the marketing wasnt geared toward that demo.
Let me revisit what Hector proposed, with one "but". (Because I agree with him, but I think he also meant one thing with the 100 years proposition.)
Steve Rogers story is told: in the MCU. He will not be recast in the MCU while this version of the MCU lasts. If the MCU as it is lasts for 100 years, there is no reason to recast a Steve Rogers or tell other stories. Next Captain America is Sam, and it moves on. That's how he proposes also comic books work.
However, if the MCU comes to a hard reboot, then yes, of course you recast, and tell a new different story. Which will happen eventually.
I believe Hector said "not in a hundred years" for (1) answering Roxy (she was the one who asked "not even in a hundred years?"), and (2) for being emphatic. Even he knows that the MCU, as it is, will eventually come an end. I agree with him: it will not be soon, because Disney is making money. They will not risk to start this all over from zero any time soon, whether people agree with or like it or not. To begin again from scratch sounds easy, but it is not, if you think that they already have a machine in motion.
And there is comic book precedent to just leave that first Captain America behind, and proceed to the next, and to the next, and to the next...
That, I believe, was somewhat what Hector was proposing.
And then Roxy proposed "not even in 100 years??", and he didn't think it through, he just went with: "yeah! because this, and this, and this..."
I'm not sure Hector would agree that the MCU will eventually come to an end.
I think he reasonably does. Everything comes to an end. But I'm not him, so, I really don't know what is in his mind... 😉
Kathleen Kennedy ruined Star Wars by her mismanagement of it. Acolyte is just the latest example of it. She went F- the fans and instead made Weird choices. First she didn't use Lucas's scripts already written. She didn't use any EU stuff til Dave stepped up(He has at best been hit and miss). She never had the original cast back together(Han, Luke, Leia, Chewy and C3PO). She has hired and fired more directors and showrunners than any other executive it seems. And with Acolyte, She spent too much for 8 30-min episodes from former Harvey Weinstein assistant Leslye Headland. It was more Hallmark tv than Star Wars.
Ace himself
Steph, the 40 year old white man - DJ
Lots of factors at play here. The Star Wars fanbase definitely seems to be about the most toxic of the major fanbases, glad Ace outlined how a lot of that (across media) flows from Gamergate a decade ago. It's downright embarrassing that Disney has left on-screen talent out to dry when racist and sexist fans put out huge amounts of hate, across multiple projects now. At the same time, it seems like this show really struggled to attract viewers, even hate-watchers. Personally I liked the world building, but didn't find the show super engaging or interesting. Not super surprised it was cancelled.
TNG is a fun one for me because I like seasons one and two and my favorite character in all of Trek is Wesley Crusher. Seasons one and two have some of the lowest points for the show and also some of the highest points.
Agree to disagree 😅
Thanks for the comment shoutout on the show! This has always been one of my fav podcast, thanks for the years of work DJ!
Thanks for the support! It means a lot!
Nah. Acolyte was fine. Old gen Star Wars fans just can’t move on.
The Chick Fil A news was wild to me, but it's wilder knowing they aren't the first to do it. At least now I know where I can get my true queer representation, Airbnb.
I liked watching the show for the fights and spectacle of it, but I’m glad it’s canceled. I thought the main few characters were so wishy-washy and not really shades of gray subtext. I think that’s what people mean by bad writing. Most fans I know didn’t like it because of that or because it just showed the Jedi as idiots instead of the established noble figures they’ve been shown without a transition or explanation. They needed more backstory to get those issues handled. Roxie, I’m pretty sure I had the same childhood, haha.
I kind of fundamentally disagree. I don't think the Jedi are represented as idiots, but as flawed. And characters are allowed to change their perspective. In fact, they're kind of obligated to. I'm not saying there is no room for criticism for the show, but I am left to wonder where that criticism is for shows like THE MANDALORIAN or AHSOKA, which exhibit many of the same "writing problems" people criticize THE ACOLYTE for. Feels disingenuous.
@@djtalkstrash I get your point, but I think I still disagree. Characters change their minds, yes, but the motivations here are too weak, too sudden, feel unmotivated or forced. Mando has been getting worse and Ashoka was weak as well, but both are established already Mando with season 1 being great and Ashoka with her role in all of Clone Wars into Rebels got better. Maybe it seems disingenuous because these are all new characters, so they had to prove themselves more and it doesn’t seem like they did. Thanks for the reply though, love watching/listening.
Star Wars fandom has been toxic since Luke’s father was revealed
George Lucas is partially responsible for ruining Star Wars with his terrible prequels. Disney has been hit or miss.
Dj has two discussions these days. He either hates something and gets pretentious and shittalks people who like his taste is superior
or he likes something and focuses his talk on the bad fandom and never actually explains what he likes
Its really gotten old bc dj is just becoming bitter and boring.
"Toxic" fans did not get not get the accolyte cancelled, It is all about the lack of viewers. People stopped watching after episode 3 and many of them could not care less about the internet blowing up with negative comments. If the viewers had been there, you can bet Disney would make a season 2, no mather all the negative comments in the world.
The Lady Jedi haters ruined Star Wars, (not people who didn't like the movie) never seen so many grown men cry in my life and Disney gave them everything they wanted with The Rise of Skywalker, a total turd.
I very much appreciate the excellent discussion.
I appreciate your appreciation!
Where did this come from? (Toxic fandom.)
They didn't come from Twitter, but Twitter, Facebook potentialized it. Twitter began to become huge between 2009 and 2010, but I think Andres is right, it kinda began around 2014, 2015.
That's an outright lie EVERYONE has tried Chick-fil-A atleast once.
Hate to break it to yah, but queer people, people of color, women, etc did not show up for The Acolyte. When you look at the actual breakdowns they did not show up in full force and instead it was mostly, overwhelmingly, older white dudes.
It's almost like the howlingly toxic fanbase chased everyone else away. Weird.
Almost like we DIDN'T need to be chased away by racism and whatnot because we just didn't connect with the show. Weird.
Ryan Johnson did
this show is on brand.
36:30 But you wouldnt prevail, because no one watched the show. It would be cancelled anyway. Saying She-Hulk and the Alcolyte is not for everyone so that part of the fandom can skip it...Well obviously, the haters did skip those shows...And so did the people who were open to those shows, because they didn't get a second season. The bigots were
a non factor here. If there was minimal online hate, those shows would have failed.
The Acolyte was terribly written, so called characters had nothing about them, just empty vessels that did whatever the show wanted at the time. The dialogue was also terrible.
Osha I won’t let you leave I love you, how you going to stop me, I’ll kill you 😂 WTF
I’m going to turn myself in to the Jedi, finds Jedi, fights runs etc
5 year olds would probably do a better job at this than these talentless activists.
Don’t even know the lore of the universe, Ki Adi Mundi’s birthdate getting changed to fit this disaster, reconned Episode 1. Not one cameo worked.
Waste of time hiring Carrie Ann Moss, glad Keanu said no.
Harvey Weinstein’s former personal assistant must have a lot of dirt on people, because she certainly does possess any actual talent.
Get these gaslighting DEI agenda driven activists out of Hollywood and go back to making quality films again, or stick with it until you are completely broke.
Valid reason to Disney’s stock being so low.
You people are insane to think the Acolyte cancellation has anything to do with racism. No one watched the show. Plain and simple. Where were all the Queer people? Where were all the people of color? Why didn't they support the show? The interest in star wars as a whole has severely waned. It has everything to do with the quality of shows. Why was the Acolyte so expensive? Where did all that money go? It certainly didn't go to the story. Talk about a grift. The only people who watched the show were hardcore star wars fans. Even the ones who didn't like the show still followed through and completed the series. Bottom line, the show wasn't that good. One day I was trying to get my daughter to do her chores but I also wanted to spend some time with her so I offered her a choice. Do you want to do the dishes or watch an episode of acolyte with me. She responded instantly with "I'll do the dishes". This is a girl who was 8 at the time of force awakens. Which she liked at the time. But it wasn't a lasting love like the fans of the OT had. And you see this all the time with kids who were at that age we were when the OT came out. This modern star wars hasn't been able to hold the interest of the younger fans out there. No kids I know were remotely interested in the Acolyte. I ask my kids all the time if anyone at school talks about star wars and the answer is always no. So Andres wake up. Star Wars has bigger problems than racist fans. Their problem is a fading fan base. Their problem is finding talented writers to craft compelling stories. The one guy they've had has crafted compelling shit is Gilroy. It's too bad not enough people watched that show because it's the one thing they've done that has been at that HBO level.
Your points are extremely valid, and I think as well the toxic fanbase of Star Wars played a part whether it be minor or major. But I believe the interest in Star Wars isn't there anymore and there is so much content that people select what they like. for me when it comes to Star Wars, I get more enjoyment from the video games and comics, the tv side for me clone wars. My love for the movies has changed because while I like the OT and aspects of the Prequals, Disney Star Wars doesn't have me as much even though I really enjoyed force awakens. Also, the discourse around Star Wars has ruined the franchise for me as you see the toxicity from people who monetize rage and use click buzz words that have no meaning anymore. So, I just stick with what I love consistently with comics, animation, and video games so mostly EU stuff. Also, those demographics did show up, but the noise that surrounded the show made it harder for those individuals to be seen, as well as not enough for the show to survive because Star Wars is not as loved as used to be even if there is a dedicated fanbase for the franchise.
I too had people trying to convince me to hate the Acolyte. I loved it. Those people can kick rocks.
33:42 the red letter media guys who mainstream it
Eh, I disagree with lumping them in that category. EFAP. Now that’s the representation of that.
The Ray movie will probably be fine because her merch sells well with the younger audience.
Yep, the lightsaber fights on that show were pretty cool.
Are yall really confused how a streaming channel works? Its an app, they will use the locations to promote the channel.
The audience. All they do is complain, complain, COMPLAIN!
After going through these comments I kind of can't help but agree.
Don't ask questions just consume product then get excited for next product.
Star Wars is doomed. The fandom is too toxic
People said that ten years ago.
You have the people like EFAP who just fucking hate anything to minute details to the point it can come off like they’re not self aware. And you have people who love stuff like acolyte or say they love it but it almost feels like they love it out of protest of people who hate new Star Wars stuff. Meanwhile, as a casual, I kinda just want Star Wars to end because I’m sick of both sides. Like those 9 movies exist, and I’m glad they do even the ones I don’t like. Mandolorian seasons 1 and 2 exist, and I’m all for it. Haven’t watched Andor yet, but I will. KotOR exists. That’s really all I need.
@@TheShockVoxEFAP give an honest breakdown, they call out what is good and bad with things. And they are not the only ones, would rather watch a genuine breakdown than a shill just saying I loved it for 5 mins to try make a video.
Hire actually talented people that care about the project.
Remember when Anakin blew up the Death Star 😂😂😂
Skeleton Crew. "Maybe we find a mature society that...." (that aren't mean to people). What? Really? 😅🤦🏻♂️ One can only hope, but... 🫤
I'm kinda excited for Skeleton Crew. It feels like fun. But we'll see.