I'd buy an ST Mini on day one - I was an Amiga guy, but it would be interesting to play some of the ST only games that came out. I don't have enough room for a full size one, but a mini would do me fine. If I need to add a keyboard, fine, I have mini keyboards. I'm saving space for the full size Amiga. Oh, and a Videopac Mini? With it's entire catalogue on board? Oh YES PLEASE!
you dont have to wait for that, simply get Raspberry Pi400, load up some linux distro with Hatari and BAM, you in game... or if you need the looks, get some normal Raspi and print out the ST shrink down case.
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 I've always thought of mini consoles to be fun but pointless toys to have on a shelf since pretty much anything can be emulated better on a PC or Pi. The fact that they are pointless toys hasn't stopped me from buying a lot of them anyway.
I'd so love to see an Atari ST Mini released with the originally bundled games from the Super Pack including Marble Madness, Test Drive, Beyond the Ice Palace, Buggy Boy, Eddie Edward's Super Ski, Ikari Warriors, Thundercats, Ranarama, Zynaps, Quadralien, Starquake, Chopper X, Road Wars, Xenon, Arkanoid, Wizball, Black Lamp, Genesis, Thrust, Seconds Out and Summer Olympiad 88 :-) Keep up the awesome work!
WOW, a ST mini would be interesting.. a ST Max would be wild as i have a 1040STFM.. must say an amiga max would be nice too. i'm getting more interested in those. the RM800XL is very nice. i have an original though. these new systems and all the add-ons for the old ones are GREAT..
I'd love to see an ST mini, just wondering if all the Atari case designs came as a bundle. It would have to have Dungeon Master, Carrier Command, Lemmings, Lucasfilm games would probably not be on the menu but maybe they could get Operation Stealth, Llamatron, Xenon 2.... I'd love to see a Vic20 mini too. They'd just need to tweak the C64 mini case. Not sure how big the market would be for a Sam Coupe or Jupiter Ace reboot.
Weren't all those games done better on the Amiga? If it's not going to cover the whole family from the 240 to the Falcon, I don't see much of a point apart form having a cute little case ... Maybe they could add a midi port so you could run classic cubase?
@@mackenziehollstein7068 We can only hope, because the maxi 500 would be such a huge chunk of plastic with nothing in it, that'd we'd have it's weight in comedic value.
I figure any full size replications all have the same problem, retro enthusiasts are going to want at least some era correct ports. I don't mean the main bus, but joystick ports, composite/rgb out, mouse port, and likely external drive port. That's where stuff gets hard/expensive.
I’d love this Atari st was my first computer but the a500 mini scratched that itch for me first now.. I would really love to see primal rage, pit fighter and guardians of the hood get some love too
The licencing of the various Atari designs may just be a way to protect their market, rather than any intention to produce a full size 8 bit and an ST mini/maxi. If you pay money to licence just one Atari model, someone else could come out with an "Atari" competitor based on another model, your market is potentially split. Even if the products aren't directly comparable, as has already been demonstrated by the RM 800XL.
This is an interesting point, however it doesn't really hold water because they have only licensed 3 designed - ST, 800XL and Atari 400. Plus the ST and A8 are totally different machines. Somebody else pointed out that they could make the new RM800XL look like a 65XE or an 800 instead and they would probably have no issues because RGL haven't licensed or trademarked those particular designs.
I'm so-so with the mini form when it comes to computers. With a computer you want a real keyboard, although I understand the full-size ST would be quite large. This is why I'm very interested in the RM800XL if they ever release it (there's very little communication from Revive Machine)
There were a number of different case designs used on the ST line. The original machine had a separate floppy drive, the Mega line had a separate keyboard as examples. Does the licence for the case design cover all of these variations?
All Retro Games need to do is the following release a full size Atari ST with the midi connections and link up with Cuebase for the license rights of there software to avoid the use of any dongle and, they would have an instant top seller with countless musicians/studios replacing there original equipment around the world buying the item.
Issue with doing an ST is the fact that there is so much crossover with the Amiga how much market would there be given how any A500 minis have already been sold?
Yeah I totally agree, it would need to have a very different selection of games which is why I would suggest they concentrate on the games/I.P. that Atari own, as a lot of that didn't come out on the Amiga, as well as companies like Llamasoft and FTL/Microdeal.
Atari might have sold the rights to TOS and the license for GEM when they sokd the Falcon to C-Labs. They would still own the hardware design of all models apart from the Falcon
800XL...so great! I have an original Atari 400 and an 800XL, love those 8-bit machines. I never got an ST in my collection, would be nice to have something like this.
Thank you for the info about ATARI 800RM because i've sent them an email 10 months ago to say that i'm a buyer for sure. Now i know why there's been only little progress. As for RetroGames i will buy "The Spectrum" but i didn't buy the Atari 400 Mini because of the bad joystick. "The Spectrum" is considered a "MAXI" console. An ATARI Falcon 030 MAXI would be great...(just dreaming).
RM800 xl is a serious machine, more like a Spectrum Next. Retro Games Ltd produces basic emulators so they can't really compete with their products...this is why they need the RM 800 off the market.
It doesn't matter if the products aren't equivalent or if they appeal to different customers. IP is as much "property" as your house or car, and Retro Games has paid actual money to Atari to obtain the legal right to solely use their property, ie name and designs. Licensing is a common occurrence in business, trademarks, patents, licences are all protected by law the world over. How would you feel if you paid a lot of money to rent exclusive daily use of, say a private venue for a year, only to walk in and find someone else was using it for free whenever they felt like it?
They've not taken it off the market. 4 days ago they confirmed it was still in development. The cease and desist thing is very old news and was easy for them to work around.
@@another3997 Sure..paying for rights is how big players manage to cancel competition and sell their crappy products , victimizing the end consumer. Atari 8bit series would never have such a huge piece in the retro market if the Polish and middle/eastern Europe scene in general didn't support it well beyond the commercial death of the platform and till to this day. Those laws have huge issues and they are designed to favor the big fish. Anyone should be able to get rights and compete with their product......free market my tushy
NICE! A500 Maxi. Speccy and then ST? Needed. I hope they license good games. FTL and Gremlin would be great at the very least. Hewson did a lot of great little ST games. I'd love to see Minter, some of the Atari ports like Star Raiders, and hopefully some of the newer STE upgrades and projects like 50fps Racer. The ST as the primary platform for the Bitmaps Bros but those ports get no love. The Joystick / game pad should be the Jagpad and have multi-buttons that are it easy to map
Indeed, Atari 800XL was the best - all that in terms of its SW compatibility, built-in OS, build quality, price, accessibility, amount of accessories compatible (and available), the computing power (sound and graphics features), ease of expandability.. Yeah, it was THE beast in Atari's line of 8-bit home computers. Mine got the CopmyShop RAM expansion (+256 kB), a 3-way OS & RAM switch (64 kB & Atari OS / 320 kB & Atari OS / 320 kB & Q-Meg OS) and a builtin custom version of TT-DOS (thanks to extra button added, it could be loaded into RAM during boot). The only thing I wasn't able to get was the Turbo BASIC XL chip (to replace the slow and somewhat under-powered Atari BASIC). Anyway, looking at this beast through my nostalgia glasses, I consider it the best 8-bit machine ever 🙂
Yeah I agree, the 800XL is an amazing machine, nothing else comes close for me and I didn't even grow up with one so I don't have any nostalgia clouding things.
I wanted an Atari ST mini before I ever got my hands on a real ST. The ST has no easy plug and play solution for it and it desperately needs it. Also, to the people who are saying "just get an Amiga mini", It doesn't matter if you think the Amiga version is better, the ST versions are different and have a right to exist.
And if you want to experience beginnings of the 16bit home computing era historically correct, Atari ST is the way to go. ST started it all, created the market and build highway for the Amiga to drive and shine.
If they do an Atari ST Mini, I'd kinda lean toward the 520ST form. I mean, if they don't need the internal 3.5" floppy drive, the 520ST has a more convenient and elegant shape - especially the location of the joystick ports.
The location of the joystick ports on the original ST (I had a pre-F 520STM) is the reason why to this day I use a mouse in my right hand despite being left-handed.
@@franktovar1237 The "mini" products don't work like that. They use USB for their controllers, rather than include "legacy" ports. Atari makes various products with backwards compatible "legacy" controller ports (and cartridges), but the "mini" folks don't do that.
I’d buy it to try to get further with Alternate Reality and to play Donald’s play ? Can’t remember the game but loved playing it with my son before he could operate the st and now I could play it with my grandson.
I found an Atari ST game on 3 disk box set for 20 quid a game that there is barely no knowledge of it online. I am tempted to buy it even though I don't have an Atari ST any more and haven't for aeons. It's a graphic adventure about time travel by Empire games from 1989. 20 quid for a game that no longer exists online it's a great deal I suppose, must talk to the missus. Is there a way to get them onto PC with an old disk drive? I read PC has no trouble reading ST files.
I feel like some Atari ST/Falcon is about high time for sure. 2600 stuff especially, have been spat out to a point where it feels like lack of imagination, or laziness. A bit like SEGA, who's stuck to releasing 16 bit era stuff only, 2 times. And completely ignored all the 8 bit, that was big at least here in EU, UK, and Brazil. I'm glad Atari passed on the torch to retrogames, to finally release som advancement in the legacy. Hoarding rights or licenses to produce branded products/replicas and not using them, I feel that's bad practice. If there are others out there ready to commit and follow through. But if you have the license and a product in the pipeline, I feel it's fair to make use of that right
I just use my Emulators on my pc, i have a Spectrum Vega, c64 mini and a Sega Megadrile mini I bring them out and let the family live a bit of retro Gaming they love the Games.
A500 mini max? Wow...I have a real Amiga 500, DD, even an original Commodore CRT, but that disk drive is ssslllooowww and it gets a little finicky. It would be great to have the full size A500 repro so I can run things off SD or USB or whatever and use native HDMI.
All I want for Christmas. Well, all I want from Retrogames is that they're gonna make an Amstrad CPC at some point. Doesn't have to be maxi, and I'm find if it's the ugly 6128 one or the weird 664 one, or the cute 464 one. Just an Amstrad. *sob* Gimme muh Amstrad! XD Okay sorry for this, I guess I just hope for an Amstrad next.
That would be great. I have tried emulating the st and it seems really fidley messing about with hatari. If it had a easy to use interface it would be snapped up by me :)
I don't Hatari because it's so fiddly, I tend to use SainT most of the time because it's so much easier to use and it supports my Sega USB joypad, which Hatari doesn't.
Retro games limited is taking all our childhood computers hostage, and it's unbearable. That's why I've never bought any of their products. The law should only apply to products whose design begins after the rights have been acquired. In the place of revive-machines, I would try to slightly modify the casing, rename the machine Ultimate 800XL and insist that their machine will be much more faithful than any product sold by retro games limited.
I find it very interesting to hear people say the mini consoles have sold better than the full sized ones. I have TheC64 and love it, but I had no interest in TheC64 Mini or TheA500 Mini because of the fact that they are not fully functional because of course the keyboards don't work. I'm getting The Spectrum and I'm looking forward to it, it'll be interesting to see what everyone else thinks of it. What are your thoughts about The Spectrum.
The Mini consoles are mostly sold on nostalgia, those who want a quick fix, not serious home computing geeks. That's why the minis are sold in mainstream stores and the maxi versions aren't.
With regards to The Spectrum, I have absolutely no interest, even though that was the machine I grew up with. I have loads of Spectrums and I don't see what this can offer me, especially as has the absolutely abysmal rubber keyboard.
@@TheLairdsLair Is that so? Your logic makes sense. I understand The Gamesman in Sydney Australia sold the full sized TheC64, that's where I bought my first one from. Sadly, it would appear that The Spectrum won't be sold in Australia, but I understand mainstream retail outlets in the UK will be selling it.
The BEEP (hypothetical BBC Micro Mini): historical, great and/or interesting games. OK. The MSX (also hypothetical): Do I have to elaborate? OK+++ The Spectrum: No contest. Also OK+ The C64: Still could be improved with more compatibility with the rest of the Commodore computers (PET, VIC-20, C16, Plus4) but it’s still a bless with the myriads of software. Still OK even with it’s flaws. The 400: Maybe not as successful as C64 but still has many exclusive games and software. OK. The A500: it’s the freaking Amiga, nuff said. OK++ The CPC and The ST: ZX and Amiga at home. What’s the point? Just to please a few enthusiasts and nostalgics? I’d pass on those.
The issue with TheC64/TheVic (it's already in there) trying to behave like the Plus4/C16/PET is that they don't have the same keyboard. Yes, you can stick a USB keyboard, but even then, it's not the same.
It's simple, if someone thinks there is a market for such products, there is no reason not to produce them. It's not unique to retro computing, the world is full of limited editions and small production runs of fairly niche products. Just because YOU don't see the attraction, doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
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The Amiga mini I can understand...... but an Atari ST mini neither makes sense, nor would ever be released as far as I can see - the ST had VERY few exclusive games, 99% of it's games library were released on the Amiga, which almost always had a vastly superior title.... and the Amiga mini is already a thing - what would be the point of the ST mini? Now if they went the whole hog and released an Atari STe MAXI with full working keyboard, 4MB ST RAM and built in HDD and Gotek functionality, then you might have something.... but this is NEVER going to happen.
You could say the same thing about the Atari 400, compared to the C64. It really just boils down to whether or not there seems to be potential demand for it.
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@@IsaacKuo :) Sorry, but there is a BIG difference between the Atari 8 bit / C64 and the Atari ST / Amiga. The Atari 8 bit systems were released three whole years before the C64 and had MAY exclusive titles that never made it to the C64. Also, the Atari 8 Bit systems had there own unique custom graphics and sound hardware and as such could host certain types of games better than the C64 - many early games that were released on both platforms were actually superior on the Atari 8 bits even though the C64 became the more popular and long lived platform. Now look at the Atari ST - it had no unique custom hardware, had only a handful of exclusive titles, was released at the same time as the Amiga and whilst it enjoyed more popularity for the first couple of years due to pricing, was quickly eclipsed by the Amiga. In short, if you are into retro games then it is worthwhile owning both a C64 and Atari 8 bit due to the exclusive libraries and conversion differences, but once you had an Amiga, exactly what was the point of owning an Atari ST as well? For these reasons ad more, I HIGHLY doubt any form of Atari ST mini will EVER be seriously considered, let alone released.
So answer me this then - why would Retro Games Limited pay Atari large sums of money for an exclusive license on the ST and issue C&D letters based on that license if they have no intention of producing an Atari ST mini?
And the point is that people who have nostalgia for the Atari ST will buy an ST Mini. Millions of people owned them back in the day so there is certainly a captive market. Nobody who grew up with an ST who wants a quick nostalgia hit is going to say to themselves "oh, there is an Amiga Mini, I'll just get that instead because it's a bit like it. Personally speaking I have absolute zero nostalgia for the Amiga, I have tons for the ST, so give me the same game on both platforms and I will always play the ST to relive that.
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@@TheLairdsLair I have absolutely no idea...... what I do know is that you have more chance of playing Pick Up Sticks with your arse cheeks than seeing some form of Atari ST Mini.... but hey, lets wait 12 months and see? ;)
I don’t think there’s any way they would spend the money on including a floppy drive or special connector (other than USB). Most people don’t have floppy disks anymore, the disks that are out there are degrading, and new disks haven’t been manufactured for almost 14 years now.
Because the "maxi" versions are much bigger, more complicated and therefore more expensive to produce. And the market for them is smaller. Far more materials are needed, more expensive moulds and the cases have to be designed differently internally to accept a real keyboard. Working keyboards are more expensive, proper keycaps have to be manufactured and it also means more testing and extra costs for legal certification etc.
I really think that once you go full size, an expectation is created for era appropriate ports & accessories, especially for backups and testing "valuable" originals. It's amazingly easy to start on Raspberry Pi & then go to a custom cheaper board in short time. An rgb port & floppy interface? Uh, it can be done, but isn't the massive profit of a toy case and a cut down commodity board. If USB and HDMI are included on the board, it's just tuning an emulator & hiding the Linux bits for mini's.
It depends on which emulator they decide upon. But the Falcon was a niche machine with very little dedicated software compared to the ST range. So unless their chosen emulator already has good Falcon support, I can't see it being a priority to include it.
Well it seems the EU regulations starting 13.12.2024 will kill any trading or production even selling to europe or within europe without big distributors. So if it is not coming directly from atari or its plaion distributor it will never happen anymore. End of used equipment sales as well. Keyword: gpsr
Re the cease and desist order Retro Games ltd well within their rights. The Polish company could havre tried to secure the rights but clearly don't have any intention of niceties like their product being legal, just like the old East European wild west when they cloned Western computers without any licence, guess you could say they are being retro with that attitude too.
Yep, I actually wrote a big article on the shady Eastern European market in the late 80s for Retro Gamer magazine some years ago, probably one of the best things I've ever written as it revealed so much and I really enjoyed researching it and doing the interviews for it.
i think your wrong about he amiga maxi not selling as well as the amiga mini . i think its gunna sell like hot cakes .. i guess we will find out in 5 months time. i will 1m% percent be getting my pre order in asap even tho i own an original a1200 that has been retro fitted with mk3 black keys and case new black tank mouse .
@@TheLairdsLair i dont know how many mini's they sold .. but from everything ive read people wanted more usb ports and a working keyboard . i didnt buy 1 as i have original hardware . but i think it will sell in lorry loads . alot of people back in the day only had an original 500 ( i was lucky and got an a1200 ). and them people who wanted an a1200 have had to buy them on the second hand market at crazy prices . like i said i own an original but im gunna pre order mine as im not missing out . id be shocked if it didnt sell double the mini's numbers . just for nostalgia alone .
Well I know for a fact that the C64 Mini sold something 4x the number of the Maxi last I heard, probably more now and I wouldn't expect The A500 to be any different.
The difference is that the Mini is cheaper and provides a nostalgic thrill to casual users, people who owned or used a particular machine in the past, mostly for games. Something that fits in a drawer or under the TV. The full size machines are more expensive, take up more room, and generally appeal to enthusiasts, people who collect original hardware, or perhaps those that want to, but can't justify the expense to buy, maintain and use that 40 year old hardware. The latter is a smaller market by far.
Since an Amiga can emulate an ST the hardware they're using for the Amiga mini should be capable of doing the ST. They could sell this hardware with the option to run both systems.
Not sure you actually understand the point of these machines. People who have nostalgia for, or interest in a particular machine, don't want to buy one that looks, and is labelled as a machine they don't care about. No matter what the hardware inside is capable of emulating. For people who don't care about the aesthetics and want to emulate a variety of hardware can just buy a Raspberry Pi or a PC and download the emulators.
Why the hell do we need 10 different PNP machines that are all exactly the same inside and could all run all of the referenced system's software? These are nothing but cashgrabs.
Even an idiot should be able to work that one out. People like nostalgia, people like certain aesthetics, people do or buy things that fulfills their requirements. As for "cashgrab", you clearly don't understand the most basic principles of business and trade. To make money and/or get what you want. Everybody needs money, you included. Nobody forces anyone to buy these products, it's voluntary. Guess what? Supermarkets, car manufacturers, house builders, decorators, gardeners, plumbers and everyone else... they're all "grabbing" cash. 🙄
What an awful idea! You can play ST games on THEA500 Mini with Pandory500 but most Amiga versions are better despite owning an ST as my first computer. Time Bandit is a free game on THEA500 Mini with the latest firmware.
@TheLairdsLair Most people would prefer Gauntlet 2 anyway, available on both platforms (with the dragon despite what the box says about it being an ST exclusive monster) if that sort of game is your bag! Canvas vs DPaint, Papyrus vs PageStream and most importantly, 'no decent ST specific game developer' vs Team17! Seems clear cut other than CuBase!
Gauntlet 2 is a very different game. But I wouldn't buy an ST Mini anyway, it's not a product that appeals to me. Although if push came to shove I'd pick it over the A500 every day of the week, because I have a great deal of nostalgia for the ST and I have absolutely none for the Amiga, this is the point that the Amiga fanboys seem to be missing.
@@TheLairdsLairI owned a 1040STF as my first 'family' computer. It holds zero nostalgia for me over the Amiga, which I upgraded to in the AGA era. The slats on the case design are nice and White Town made a cool 90s top 40 hit 'Your Woman' on it. Blue War III was also a nice exclusive which I now play on THEA500 Mini under the Pandory500 Hatari emulation core. End of.
sad, but true... at least in my case. I fell prey to the megadrive mini and played on it exactly twice. It was a toy and nostalgia trip but that was it.
So people should only buy things that they will never stop using, will never become obsolete and never wear out or break? 😂 Go look in your cupboards and see how many things you haven't used for years. People can sell or give things away to others who want them. And E-waste can be recycled.
It's easy to be against these systems and be the retro judge. But their appearance is not just about having 5 minutes of fun. It's about generating interest around a particular machine, its history and legacy, let people learn and regenerate interest in programming and eventually to have new programs for these old systems by using todays tools and knowledge.
Why though? Is this just Amiga fanboy arrogance? Because there are plenty of games that are better on the ST, especially 3D stuff, and there are some games that were never on the Amiga too. Also there is the nostalgia factor, which is mostly what sells these machines and somebody who owned an ST growing up won't have those feelings for the Amiga.
I'd buy an ST Mini on day one - I was an Amiga guy, but it would be interesting to play some of the ST only games that came out.
I don't have enough room for a full size one, but a mini would do me fine. If I need to add a keyboard, fine, I have mini keyboards.
I'm saving space for the full size Amiga.
Oh, and a Videopac Mini? With it's entire catalogue on board?
Oh YES PLEASE!
you dont have to wait for that, simply get Raspberry Pi400, load up some linux distro with Hatari and BAM, you in game... or if you need the looks, get some normal Raspi and print out the ST shrink down case.
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 I've always thought of mini consoles to be fun but pointless toys to have on a shelf since pretty much anything can be emulated better on a PC or Pi. The fact that they are pointless toys hasn't stopped me from buying a lot of them anyway.
I'd so love to see an Atari ST Mini released with the originally bundled games from the Super Pack including Marble Madness, Test Drive, Beyond the Ice Palace, Buggy Boy, Eddie Edward's Super Ski, Ikari Warriors, Thundercats, Ranarama, Zynaps, Quadralien, Starquake, Chopper X, Road Wars, Xenon, Arkanoid, Wizball, Black Lamp, Genesis, Thrust, Seconds Out and Summer Olympiad 88 :-) Keep up the awesome work!
Would love an ST mini, have midi ports built in and run cubase!
That is the ONLY reason to launch one IMHO!
I'd even forgive them putting in midi on 3.5mm mini jacks instead of full size din5
Yes please on the ST mini! I'm in the US and it's my favorite machine
WOW, a ST mini would be interesting.. a ST Max would be wild as i have a 1040STFM.. must say an amiga max would be nice too. i'm getting more interested in those. the RM800XL is very nice. i have an original though. these new systems and all the add-ons for the old ones are GREAT..
Just to be able to play Captive again would make me buy it, best gaming experience from my childhood.
I'd love to see an ST mini, just wondering if all the Atari case designs came as a bundle. It would have to have Dungeon Master, Carrier Command, Lemmings, Lucasfilm games would probably not be on the menu but maybe they could get Operation Stealth, Llamatron, Xenon 2.... I'd love to see a Vic20 mini too. They'd just need to tweak the C64 mini case. Not sure how big the market would be for a Sam Coupe or Jupiter Ace reboot.
They already did a limited edition The VIC-20!
@@TheLairdsLair I thought that was full size?
@@TheLairdsLair I thought that was a full size replica?
Weren't all those games done better on the Amiga? If it's not going to cover the whole family from the 240 to the Falcon, I don't see much of a point apart form having a cute little case ... Maybe they could add a midi port so you could run classic cubase?
Ah sorry, yeah it was.
I am still waiting for the A500 Maxi with the full size working keyboard.
Coming soon I think
It's probably going to be in the shape of the 600
Q1 2025 according to their product timeline.
@@mackenziehollstein7068 We can only hope, because the maxi 500 would be such a huge chunk of plastic with nothing in it, that'd we'd have it's weight in comedic value.
I figure any full size replications all have the same problem, retro enthusiasts are going to want at least some era correct ports. I don't mean the main bus, but joystick ports, composite/rgb out, mouse port, and likely external drive port. That's where stuff gets hard/expensive.
I’d love this Atari st was my first computer but the a500 mini scratched that itch for me first now.. I would really love to see primal rage, pit fighter and guardians of the hood get some love too
The licencing of the various Atari designs may just be a way to protect their market, rather than any intention to produce a full size 8 bit and an ST mini/maxi. If you pay money to licence just one Atari model, someone else could come out with an "Atari" competitor based on another model, your market is potentially split. Even if the products aren't directly comparable, as has already been demonstrated by the RM 800XL.
This is an interesting point, however it doesn't really hold water because they have only licensed 3 designed - ST, 800XL and Atari 400. Plus the ST and A8 are totally different machines.
Somebody else pointed out that they could make the new RM800XL look like a 65XE or an 800 instead and they would probably have no issues because RGL haven't licensed or trademarked those particular designs.
I'm so-so with the mini form when it comes to computers. With a computer you want a real keyboard, although I understand the full-size ST would be quite large. This is why I'm very interested in the RM800XL if they ever release it (there's very little communication from Revive Machine)
There were a number of different case designs used on the ST line.
The original machine had a separate floppy drive, the Mega line had a separate keyboard as examples.
Does the licence for the case design cover all of these variations?
The documents only show the later all-in-one 520/1040 STfm/STe case
All Retro Games need to do is the following release a full size Atari ST with the midi connections and link up with Cuebase for the license rights of there software to avoid the use of any dongle and, they would have an instant top seller with countless musicians/studios replacing there original equipment around the world buying the item.
Issue with doing an ST is the fact that there is so much crossover with the Amiga how much market would there be given how any A500 minis have already been sold?
Yeah I totally agree, it would need to have a very different selection of games which is why I would suggest they concentrate on the games/I.P. that Atari own, as a lot of that didn't come out on the Amiga, as well as companies like Llamasoft and FTL/Microdeal.
I'd buy a miniST any day. I had one originally and never cared for the Amiga (other than they were great for the making of Babylon 5).
I bought a a500 mini only because there is no st mini available. And I'll still buy an st mini if one comes out.
@@Thurgosh_OG You owned both and STILL preferred the ST over the Amiga?! Wow..... I have now heard it all.
Atari might have sold the rights to TOS and the license for GEM when they sokd the Falcon to C-Labs. They would still own the hardware design of all models apart from the Falcon
I'd love one. Happy Christmas 1991 relived.
800XL...so great! I have an original Atari 400 and an 800XL, love those 8-bit machines. I never got an ST in my collection, would be nice to have something like this.
Thank you for the info about ATARI 800RM because i've sent them an email 10 months ago to say that i'm a buyer for sure. Now i know why there's been only little progress. As for RetroGames i will buy "The Spectrum" but i didn't buy the Atari 400 Mini because of the bad joystick. "The Spectrum" is considered a "MAXI" console. An ATARI Falcon 030 MAXI would be great...(just dreaming).
RM800 xl is a serious machine, more like a Spectrum Next. Retro Games Ltd produces basic emulators so they can't really compete with their products...this is why they need the RM 800 off the market.
It doesn't matter if the products aren't equivalent or if they appeal to different customers. IP is as much "property" as your house or car, and Retro Games has paid actual money to Atari to obtain the legal right to solely use their property, ie name and designs. Licensing is a common occurrence in business, trademarks, patents, licences are all protected by law the world over. How would you feel if you paid a lot of money to rent exclusive daily use of, say a private venue for a year, only to walk in and find someone else was using it for free whenever they felt like it?
They've not taken it off the market. 4 days ago they confirmed it was still in development. The cease and desist thing is very old news and was easy for them to work around.
@@another3997 Sure..paying for rights is how big players manage to cancel competition and sell their crappy products , victimizing the end consumer. Atari 8bit series would never have such a huge piece in the retro market if the Polish and middle/eastern Europe scene in general didn't support it well beyond the commercial death of the platform and till to this day.
Those laws have huge issues and they are designed to favor the big fish. Anyone should be able to get rights and compete with their product......free market my tushy
NICE! A500 Maxi. Speccy and then ST? Needed. I hope they license good games. FTL and Gremlin would be great at the very least. Hewson did a lot of great little ST games. I'd love to see Minter, some of the Atari ports like Star Raiders, and hopefully some of the newer STE upgrades and projects like 50fps Racer. The ST as the primary platform for the Bitmaps Bros but those ports get no love. The Joystick / game pad should be the Jagpad and have multi-buttons that are it easy to map
I wouldn't hold your breath for a ST mini.
Why would RGL pay Atari for a limited license for the ST design if they have no intention to make one then?
Indeed, Atari 800XL was the best - all that in terms of its SW compatibility, built-in OS, build quality, price, accessibility, amount of accessories compatible (and available), the computing power (sound and graphics features), ease of expandability.. Yeah, it was THE beast in Atari's line of 8-bit home computers.
Mine got the CopmyShop RAM expansion (+256 kB), a 3-way OS & RAM switch (64 kB & Atari OS / 320 kB & Atari OS / 320 kB & Q-Meg OS) and a builtin custom version of TT-DOS (thanks to extra button added, it could be loaded into RAM during boot). The only thing I wasn't able to get was the Turbo BASIC XL chip (to replace the slow and somewhat under-powered Atari BASIC).
Anyway, looking at this beast through my nostalgia glasses, I consider it the best 8-bit machine ever 🙂
Yeah I agree, the 800XL is an amazing machine, nothing else comes close for me and I didn't even grow up with one so I don't have any nostalgia clouding things.
I would be super surprised if they didn't do at least the ST mini, with the full size being the next logical step.
I've always thought of the ST as being very similar to the Amiga but not quite as good, but would still buy a mini for $130 or so.
Nothing on the 130XE? That was always my favourite of the 8-bit computers.
I wanted an Atari ST mini before I ever got my hands on a real ST. The ST has no easy plug and play solution for it and it desperately needs it. Also, to the people who are saying "just get an Amiga mini", It doesn't matter if you think the Amiga version is better, the ST versions are different and have a right to exist.
And if you want to experience beginnings of the 16bit home computing era historically correct, Atari ST is the way to go. ST started it all, created the market and build highway for the Amiga to drive and shine.
Mini ST would be great!
If they do an Atari ST Mini, I'd kinda lean toward the 520ST form. I mean, if they don't need the internal 3.5" floppy drive, the 520ST has a more convenient and elegant shape - especially the location of the joystick ports.
Yeah, I totally agree, but the diagrams appear to show the later case design.
The location of the joystick ports on the original ST (I had a pre-F 520STM) is the reason why to this day I use a mouse in my right hand despite being left-handed.
Hope it comes out so we can buy the new versions of the STM1 mouse. I bought the new CX40 joystick for my Mega ST and it works great.
@@franktovar1237 The "mini" products don't work like that. They use USB for their controllers, rather than include "legacy" ports.
Atari makes various products with backwards compatible "legacy" controller ports (and cartridges), but the "mini" folks don't do that.
Beat me to it, those joysticks were designed for the 2600+, which has proper joystick ports, not a mini console.
I’d buy it to try to get further with Alternate Reality and to play Donald’s play ? Can’t remember the game but loved playing it with my son before he could operate the st and now I could play it with my grandson.
Pirates for the ST was a really fun game.
I found an Atari ST game on 3 disk box set for 20 quid a game that there is barely no knowledge of it online. I am tempted to buy it even though I don't have an Atari ST any more and haven't for aeons. It's a graphic adventure about time travel by Empire games from 1989. 20 quid for a game that no longer exists online it's a great deal I suppose, must talk to the missus. Is there a way to get them onto PC with an old disk drive? I read PC has no trouble reading ST files.
I feel like some Atari ST/Falcon is about high time for sure. 2600 stuff especially, have been spat out to a point where it feels like lack of imagination, or laziness. A bit like SEGA, who's stuck to releasing 16 bit era stuff only, 2 times. And completely ignored all the 8 bit, that was big at least here in EU, UK, and Brazil.
I'm glad Atari passed on the torch to retrogames, to finally release som advancement in the legacy.
Hoarding rights or licenses to produce branded products/replicas and not using them, I feel that's bad practice. If there are others out there ready to commit and follow through.
But if you have the license and a product in the pipeline, I feel it's fair to make use of that right
Fantastic, I've been waiting for this
I just use my Emulators on my pc, i have a Spectrum Vega, c64 mini and a Sega Megadrile mini I bring them out and let the family live a bit of retro Gaming they love the Games.
A500 mini max? Wow...I have a real Amiga 500, DD, even an original Commodore CRT, but that disk drive is ssslllooowww and it gets a little finicky. It would be great to have the full size A500 repro so I can run things off SD or USB or whatever and use native HDMI.
Great video 👍
I’m guessing 99% of people wanting these replica computers are getting sick of mini versions with fake keyboards!!
All I want for Christmas. Well, all I want from Retrogames is that they're gonna make an Amstrad CPC at some point. Doesn't have to be maxi, and I'm find if it's the ugly 6128 one or the weird 664 one, or the cute 464 one. Just an Amstrad. *sob* Gimme muh Amstrad! XD Okay sorry for this, I guess I just hope for an Amstrad next.
That would be great. I have tried emulating the st and it seems really fidley messing about with hatari. If it had a easy to use interface it would be snapped up by me :)
I don't Hatari because it's so fiddly, I tend to use SainT most of the time because it's so much easier to use and it supports my Sega USB joypad, which Hatari doesn't.
Retro games limited is taking all our childhood computers hostage, and it's unbearable. That's why I've never bought any of their products. The law should only apply to products whose design begins after the rights have been acquired. In the place of revive-machines, I would try to slightly modify the casing, rename the machine Ultimate 800XL and insist that their machine will be much more faithful than any product sold by retro games limited.
I want a NEW Atari 1040ST!
I find it very interesting to hear people say the mini consoles have sold better than the full sized ones. I have TheC64 and love it, but I had no interest in TheC64 Mini or TheA500 Mini because of the fact that they are not fully functional because of course the keyboards don't work. I'm getting The Spectrum and I'm looking forward to it, it'll be interesting to see what everyone else thinks of it. What are your thoughts about The Spectrum.
The Mini consoles are mostly sold on nostalgia, those who want a quick fix, not serious home computing geeks. That's why the minis are sold in mainstream stores and the maxi versions aren't.
With regards to The Spectrum, I have absolutely no interest, even though that was the machine I grew up with. I have loads of Spectrums and I don't see what this can offer me, especially as has the absolutely abysmal rubber keyboard.
@@TheLairdsLair Is that so? Your logic makes sense. I understand The Gamesman in Sydney Australia sold the full sized TheC64, that's where I bought my first one from. Sadly, it would appear that The Spectrum won't be sold in Australia, but I understand mainstream retail outlets in the UK will be selling it.
The BEEP (hypothetical BBC Micro Mini): historical, great and/or interesting games. OK.
The MSX (also hypothetical): Do I have to elaborate? OK+++
The Spectrum: No contest. Also OK+
The C64: Still could be improved with more compatibility with the rest of the Commodore computers (PET, VIC-20, C16, Plus4) but it’s still a bless with the myriads of software. Still OK even with it’s flaws.
The 400: Maybe not as successful as C64 but still has many exclusive games and software. OK.
The A500: it’s the freaking Amiga, nuff said. OK++
The CPC and The ST: ZX and Amiga at home. What’s the point? Just to please a few enthusiasts and nostalgics? I’d pass on those.
It's the Beeb where did you get beep from, that's the sound the ZX Spectrum makes through it's internal speaker.
The issue with TheC64/TheVic (it's already in there) trying to behave like the Plus4/C16/PET is that they don't have the same keyboard. Yes, you can stick a USB keyboard, but even then, it's not the same.
It's simple, if someone thinks there is a market for such products, there is no reason not to produce them. It's not unique to retro computing, the world is full of limited editions and small production runs of fairly niche products. Just because YOU don't see the attraction, doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
The Amiga mini I can understand...... but an Atari ST mini neither makes sense, nor would ever be released as far as I can see - the ST had VERY few exclusive games, 99% of it's games library were released on the Amiga, which almost always had a vastly superior title.... and the Amiga mini is already a thing - what would be the point of the ST mini?
Now if they went the whole hog and released an Atari STe MAXI with full working keyboard, 4MB ST RAM and built in HDD and Gotek functionality, then you might have something.... but this is NEVER going to happen.
You could say the same thing about the Atari 400, compared to the C64. It really just boils down to whether or not there seems to be potential demand for it.
@@IsaacKuo :) Sorry, but there is a BIG difference between the Atari 8 bit / C64 and the Atari ST / Amiga. The Atari 8 bit systems were released three whole years before the C64 and had MAY exclusive titles that never made it to the C64. Also, the Atari 8 Bit systems had there own unique custom graphics and sound hardware and as such could host certain types of games better than the C64 - many early games that were released on both platforms were actually superior on the Atari 8 bits even though the C64 became the more popular and long lived platform.
Now look at the Atari ST - it had no unique custom hardware, had only a handful of exclusive titles, was released at the same time as the Amiga and whilst it enjoyed more popularity for the first couple of years due to pricing, was quickly eclipsed by the Amiga.
In short, if you are into retro games then it is worthwhile owning both a C64 and Atari 8 bit due to the exclusive libraries and conversion differences, but once you had an Amiga, exactly what was the point of owning an Atari ST as well?
For these reasons ad more, I HIGHLY doubt any form of Atari ST mini will EVER be seriously considered, let alone released.
So answer me this then - why would Retro Games Limited pay Atari large sums of money for an exclusive license on the ST and issue C&D letters based on that license if they have no intention of producing an Atari ST mini?
And the point is that people who have nostalgia for the Atari ST will buy an ST Mini. Millions of people owned them back in the day so there is certainly a captive market. Nobody who grew up with an ST who wants a quick nostalgia hit is going to say to themselves "oh, there is an Amiga Mini, I'll just get that instead because it's a bit like it.
Personally speaking I have absolute zero nostalgia for the Amiga, I have tons for the ST, so give me the same game on both platforms and I will always play the ST to relive that.
@@TheLairdsLair I have absolutely no idea...... what I do know is that you have more chance of playing Pick Up Sticks with your arse cheeks than seeing some form of Atari ST Mini.... but hey, lets wait 12 months and see? ;)
Would the A500 Maxi and an ST Maxi have 3.5" floppy drives or twin USB Drives built in like Goteks plus Floppy Drive Connectors?
Just USB I'd imagine
I don’t think there’s any way they would spend the money on including a floppy drive or special connector (other than USB). Most people don’t have floppy disks anymore, the disks that are out there are degrading, and new disks haven’t been manufactured for almost 14 years now.
Where would they get a supply of new 3.5 inch floppy drives? Nobody makes them any more.
Give away my age, I had an OG one of those.
The ST? Me too.
Whys everything bloody MINI all the time, why not MAXI
Because the "maxi" versions are much bigger, more complicated and therefore more expensive to produce. And the market for them is smaller. Far more materials are needed, more expensive moulds and the cases have to be designed differently internally to accept a real keyboard. Working keyboards are more expensive, proper keycaps have to be manufactured and it also means more testing and extra costs for legal certification etc.
I really think that once you go full size, an expectation is created for era appropriate ports & accessories, especially for backups and testing "valuable" originals. It's amazingly easy to start on Raspberry Pi & then go to a custom cheaper board in short time. An rgb port & floppy interface? Uh, it can be done, but isn't the massive profit of a toy case and a cut down commodity board. If USB and HDMI are included on the board, it's just tuning an emulator & hiding the Linux bits for mini's.
Would love if you couuld swith between an ST and STE ot ven allow for a Falcon mini
I'd imagine it would support STe, but I'd say Falcon compatibility is very unlikely.
It depends on which emulator they decide upon. But the Falcon was a niche machine with very little dedicated software compared to the ST range. So unless their chosen emulator already has good Falcon support, I can't see it being a priority to include it.
It would need to have a functioning keyboard.
Well it seems the EU regulations starting 13.12.2024 will kill any trading or production even selling to europe or within europe without big distributors. So if it is not coming directly from atari or its plaion distributor it will never happen anymore. End of used equipment sales as well. Keyword: gpsr
Re the cease and desist order Retro Games ltd well within their rights. The Polish company could havre tried to secure the rights but clearly don't have any intention of niceties like their product being legal, just like the old East European wild west when they cloned Western computers without any licence, guess you could say they are being retro with that attitude too.
Yep, I actually wrote a big article on the shady Eastern European market in the late 80s for Retro Gamer magazine some years ago, probably one of the best things I've ever written as it revealed so much and I really enjoyed researching it and doing the interviews for it.
i think your wrong about he amiga maxi not selling as well as the amiga mini . i think its gunna sell like hot cakes .. i guess we will find out in 5 months time. i will 1m% percent be getting my pre order in asap even tho i own an original a1200 that has been retro fitted with mk3 black keys and case new black tank mouse .
I'd be willing to bet the full size Amiga doesn't even sell half as many units as the Mini.
@@TheLairdsLair i dont know how many mini's they sold .. but from everything ive read people wanted more usb ports and a working keyboard . i didnt buy 1 as i have original hardware . but i think it will sell in lorry loads . alot of people back in the day only had an original 500 ( i was lucky and got an a1200 ). and them people who wanted an a1200 have had to buy them on the second hand market at crazy prices . like i said i own an original but im gunna pre order mine as im not missing out . id be shocked if it didnt sell double the mini's numbers . just for nostalgia alone .
Well I know for a fact that the C64 Mini sold something 4x the number of the Maxi last I heard, probably more now and I wouldn't expect The A500 to be any different.
The difference is that the Mini is cheaper and provides a nostalgic thrill to casual users, people who owned or used a particular machine in the past, mostly for games. Something that fits in a drawer or under the TV. The full size machines are more expensive, take up more room, and generally appeal to enthusiasts, people who collect original hardware, or perhaps those that want to, but can't justify the expense to buy, maintain and use that 40 year old hardware. The latter is a smaller market by far.
Since an Amiga can emulate an ST the hardware they're using for the Amiga mini should be capable of doing the ST. They could sell this hardware with the option to run both systems.
Not sure you actually understand the point of these machines. People who have nostalgia for, or interest in a particular machine, don't want to buy one that looks, and is labelled as a machine they don't care about. No matter what the hardware inside is capable of emulating. For people who don't care about the aesthetics and want to emulate a variety of hardware can just buy a Raspberry Pi or a PC and download the emulators.
I would like more a Atari XEGS mini
That was what I originally pitched to Retro Games Limited, they "borrowed" my idea without crediting me and turned it into the A400.
@@TheLairdsLair but A400 is by Commodore !?!!??
No, you are thinking of A4000 or A500, The A400 is the Atari 400 Mini from Retro Games Limited.
@@TheLairdsLair ah ... thanks !!!
I'm not going to comment further on pending legal cases.
I think I'll save my money for the Amiga Maxi that is reportedly 'on the way'.
I read speculation that it might be in the smaller 1200 form factor.
That's interesting!
Why the hell do we need 10 different PNP machines that are all exactly the same inside and could all run all of the referenced system's software? These are nothing but cashgrabs.
Even an idiot should be able to work that one out. People like nostalgia, people like certain aesthetics, people do or buy things that fulfills their requirements. As for "cashgrab", you clearly don't understand the most basic principles of business and trade. To make money and/or get what you want. Everybody needs money, you included. Nobody forces anyone to buy these products, it's voluntary. Guess what? Supermarkets, car manufacturers, house builders, decorators, gardeners, plumbers and everyone else... they're all "grabbing" cash. 🙄
Why not do an Atari Falcon 😂😂😂😂
What an awful idea! You can play ST games on THEA500 Mini with Pandory500 but most Amiga versions are better despite owning an ST as my first computer. Time Bandit is a free game on THEA500 Mini with the latest firmware.
The ST version of Time Bandit is much better, the Amiga version has missing features.
@TheLairdsLair Most people would prefer Gauntlet 2 anyway, available on both platforms (with the dragon despite what the box says about it being an ST exclusive monster) if that sort of game is your bag! Canvas vs DPaint, Papyrus vs PageStream and most importantly, 'no decent ST specific game developer' vs Team17! Seems clear cut other than CuBase!
Gauntlet 2 is a very different game. But I wouldn't buy an ST Mini anyway, it's not a product that appeals to me. Although if push came to shove I'd pick it over the A500 every day of the week, because I have a great deal of nostalgia for the ST and I have absolutely none for the Amiga, this is the point that the Amiga fanboys seem to be missing.
@@TheLairdsLairI owned a 1040STF as my first 'family' computer. It holds zero nostalgia for me over the Amiga, which I upgraded to in the AGA era. The slats on the case design are nice and White Town made a cool 90s top 40 hit 'Your Woman' on it. Blue War III was also a nice exclusive which I now play on THEA500 Mini under the Pandory500 Hatari emulation core. End of.
More e-waste that will clog up closets and cupboards once the 5 minute nostalgia trip is over.
Is this PLA plastic, which is made to be biodegradable from corn husks and other goodies?
@@ShamrockParticle "e-waste" describes the electronics.....
sad, but true... at least in my case. I fell prey to the megadrive mini and played on it exactly twice. It was a toy and nostalgia trip but that was it.
So people should only buy things that they will never stop using, will never become obsolete and never wear out or break? 😂 Go look in your cupboards and see how many things you haven't used for years. People can sell or give things away to others who want them. And E-waste can be recycled.
It's easy to be against these systems and be the retro judge. But their appearance is not just about having 5 minutes of fun. It's about generating interest around a particular machine, its history and legacy, let people learn and regenerate interest in programming and eventually to have new programs for these old systems by using todays tools and knowledge.
A tramiel production......again....no tramiel.....no st
Isnt an ST mini kind of pointless with the Amiga Mini? I know others have made the same point in the comments. I cant see it happening tbh
Why though? Is this just Amiga fanboy arrogance? Because there are plenty of games that are better on the ST, especially 3D stuff, and there are some games that were never on the Amiga too.
Also there is the nostalgia factor, which is mostly what sells these machines and somebody who owned an ST growing up won't have those feelings for the Amiga.
more crap
How so? The Atari 800XL was the best of the 8-bit computers.
Yes, you're talking more crap. Thanks for your valuable contribution to the topic on hand.