Hey Benjamin, here is my lightning/surge protector story: I worked as a service electrician, so this was at a customer's house back in 2015 outside Atlanta, Georgia. The customer knew exactly where lightning struck the ground in her yard--there was a nice size hole. The lightning travelled into her garage thru the low-voltage side of the sprinkler system, blew up the sprinkler control box on the wall, then blew up the transformer plugged into an outlet on the ceiling (for a garage door opener, but none present). That also sent the outlet and metal box up and into the ceiling. I have a picture of it, but it won't let me attach here. She already had a surge protector on her main panel, and I'd like to believe it prevented any further damage inside the home--although with lightning, you never know... Unfortunately I don't remember the brand of the surge protector, now 7 years later. Rich
Excellent tutorial, I didn’t even know how easy they are to connect an add that over voltage protection. If you do install on your main breaker with knockouts on the bottom, like we have here in AZ, it would be a worth addition to your channel!
I have done a quite a bit of research into the components of type 3 surge protection devices. Benjamin, you are correct about the voltage ratings, this is the voltage the unit will start clamping the voltage. The rather high voltage ratings are often but not always a result of marketing greed. The most common type of component used in these devices are MOV's. Within the same size of component (14mm dia. for example) a 200v provides the tightest protection but has a Max energy rating of 57Joules, a 680v has a 130 Joules rating but would not hinder a 600v surge from hitting your electronics. The reason sadly is that for a tiny increase in cost and within the same available space in the device, using the 680v MOV's allows the manufacturer to print a higher joule rating on the box, which will fool most consumers into thinking they are buying better protection, when in fact the opposite is true. Generally, the better more costly units have lower voltage ratings. Some exceptions to this is where the MOV's are used in conjunction with a GDT,, but that's a whole different rabbit hole !
This is not my understanding. As they are "Varistor"s, they begin to shunt voltage at approximately 10% above rating, with resistance decreasing until the clamping voltage, at which point the overage is completely shunted to neutral/ground.
You make good videos. Good advise on adding whole house surge protection. People protect computers and TV's with Tripp Lites but forget that almost every appliance is now "computer" controlled. I don't have much faith in the Square D QO surgebreaker. The builder installed that model (in the middle of the panel - wrong location - max protection when installed on 1st breaker) and I lost 7 appliance controlllers over 5 years. I installed the largest Eaton CHSPT2-Ultra Whole House Surge Protector (~$140 plus a 50amp 240V breaker) 108K amps rating on the 1st breaker in the panel. In the 7 years since its installation; no more appliances have been lost.
I have a surge suppression device on my panel. During a power grid brown out, I heard the MOV’s inside the device making weird sounds. In the end, when I went to look at surge device, I noticed the green light dimming off and on. It saved my equipment for sure.
One advantage of using a Type 2 SPD is that it is still actively protecting the all panel circuits when your home's been switched over to generator power because a storm has caused commercial power to fail. Since a Type 2 SPD is on the load side of the main panel breaker it remains operational regardless whether the incoming power is from an alternate power source (generator) or from normal commercial power.
Benjamin, I have a lot of tall concrete waterfalls, deep concrete fish / duck ponds, 15' tall pens on property constructed of heavy gauge horse panels. Over all, I've installed 8 - 10 foot copper ground rods connected with 6 gauge copper wire and heavy duty clamps to any tall heavy gauge wire cages and any structural rebar in the concrete walls of ponds and waterfalls. After 20 years, no damage from heavy lightening storms. Some of the structures have 2 ground rods. All ground clamps are cleaned yearly and sprayed with enamel paint to prevent heavy oxidation. I am assuming all the ground rods have help protect the main building from surges. I must say, I do like the one you installed and will get a couple to protect sensitive equipment for added peace of mind. Hate dealing with insurance claims.....it's a racket.
I worked for Schneider electric / Square D. I recently moved in a new home in AZ. I recommend also installing surge protection on your central air conditioner outside disconnect box. I used A Square D model SDSA1175. It will help protect your compressor motor and electronics. On a interesting note the instructions mention if your leads are over 12 inches you should twist them together several times. Bill
Yes a motor can handle a surge better. The surge protection in this application is installed more to protect the associated electronics in the hvac package. But there is another reason. Every time you start the compressor the inrush current causes a spike on your power line that can cause issues with other electronic equipment in your home.
@@williamradwanski1998 Wouldn't it be better to added another capacitor then? Its like your dam is running out of water because you didn't build the dam big enough. If it was the right size, it could handle the fluctuations in the line. I wish whole home power factor correction capacitors were common item.
@@genuismensa I know they recommend putting extra capacitor on the HVAC if you have a back up generator to make it easier on the generator when the compressor starts! The HVAC makers try to save a few pennies buy putting the minimum cap in!😪
Nice video. I use to work for a public electric utility in Mass. and had a customer that the washer and dryer were welded together with about a 2" hole blown between them when a lightening strike hit the transformer outside their property, another time a new coiled up extenstion cord blew up like spaghetti when hit with lightning, also blew out the surge protector on the side of the panel. Thanks for a great video.
From my POW, SPD with additional ground wire is intended to use in downstream breaker panels, where N and G wires are independent. Because, a neutral wire also needs protection, and such SPD must have N-G protection, in addition to L1-G and L2-G protections. (Of course, L1-N and L2-N protections are mandatory). Protections from any of active wires (L1,L2, N) to G are useful in electronics and IT equipment. Also, it may be useful to protect EV charging point (EVSE) by SPD to increase surge protection level for EV's onboard charging converter. Additionally, the less resistance of each of local grounding systems (sets of grounding electrodes at each property's building) - the better surge protection level.
The L1-L2-N lines are protected using MOV's that provide a clamp to the surge. The N-G is protected with a gas discharge tube that essentially provides a 0 volt clamp between neutral and ground when fired. This is because the nominal N-G voltage IS zero.
@@SoundzRite I wonder if I installed my type 2 Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA correctly in my 52 year old GE split bus panel. The instructions state to install through a dedicated 50 A breaker. The top portion with the 2-pole breakers was full so I installed the surge protector through a 50 A 2-pole compact breaker in the lower section where all the 1-pole breakers are placed. The lower section is fed by a 60 A 2-pole breaker in the upper section. Maybe I should just put the L1 and L2 in the 50 A 2-pole breaker for the electric range in the upper section. Alternatively, I could install three compact breakers (30 A, 40 A, 50 A) in the left side upper. The sticker indicates that those would fit in place of the two full sized breakers there now (30 A for ele dryer, 40 A for A/C condensing unit).
Just had Eaton put in and use 50 amp breaker Love it cause it showed there was more damage after small fire Wire ached to stable We also had fuse safety switch put in cause breakers didn't trip
Benjamin, new panels come with spade male terminals where you can connect directly to the service entrance connectors. I was happy to see mine did. I am glad you mentioned that is not allowed to insert in the same terminal as the service entrance conductors though, but the terminals now have that itty bitty little spade male thingy pointing up and with a 1/4 female spade terminal is a breeze and allowed. That is the beauty of the Type 1, no cannibalizing precious breaker real estate inside the distribution panel.
The more the better, and one on meter can is good per code, shortest wires is best. Most all of these under $100 use MOV's and the expensive ones use SASD diodes. The light checks circuit integrity, because these may be damaged after a big surge. I had some melt with sustained over voltage. Remember a power dip is not a surge. Good info here.
I looked up the Square D Homeline and it's only good up to 900 joules. Do you know if installing two would make a difference? I'm putting these in a 100 amp Square D sub panel that is fed from a 200 amp Crouse-Hinds main that is outside. They don't make them for the Crouse-Hinds, but my sub is what feeds my lights, receptacles, tv's, and computer. Thanks.
@@im2yys4u81 Sure the more the better, i 've installed hundreds of those Square D's and they're ok, certainly more better expensive ones...They all parallel and add up.
These protectors are good, but just your basic suppressor, they take the brunt of the surge, but let high enough volage through to damage your sensitive computerized devices. You MUST add a secondary protector at each location for each device, such as a Tripp Lite ISOBLOK2-0, etc., etc. These devices clamp the voltage lower and the SPEED of the clamping is faster. Instead of milliseconds a silicon avalanche protector works in nanoseconds. Tripp Lite has proven to me, as a telecommunications specialist, to be excellent. I have seen these take a hit, had visible black stains from its seams, and after replacing it, the attached equipment worked like new. Tripp Lite also replaces their surge damaged devices too (keep your receipts).
@@BenjaminSahlstrom See my note above. The Homeline dual function breakers are on National back order until at least March of 2023. Schneider won't honor a warranty on breakers bought on eBay or Amazon, and it's a crap shoot as to whether you're getting the real deal, or a flawed breaker.
I don't see how this can be considered a whole house surge protector (by the way you installed it). It will protect the circuit downstream of the 20A breaker, but after that breaker trips the rest of the panel will still be experiencing the power surge. I would suggest you attach the THOMESURGE directly to the buss bar like the internal version does. That would cause the MAIN breaker to trip in a surge situation thus protecting the whole house.
I was wondering about surges happening outside your property.(other side of transformer) Transformer at your property is "tuned" for 50 or 60Hz, surges we talk a few nano seconds. In my opinion surges from outside should be filtered by the transformer(effective low pass filter) Would love to hear comments.
My only surge protection are cheap power strips that may or may not do anything other than overload an outlet. So I rely on that, plus homeowners insurance and on disconnecting things when there is a severe thunderstorm warning and I see the lightning.
Since this is a sub panel, would it not be a code violation to land your neutral on the ground bar since bonding should only occur at the service entrance or main panel?
You said there is an upline primary disconnect. This box is then by definition a sub panel. Your grounds and neutrals in this box, by code, may not be bonded and must be separated.
Wow! I worked for GE marketing MOVs. I have never seen so much incorrect info in one place before. They are NOT 1 shot devices. 1 device placed anywhere in circuit should protect whole circuit. A constant over voltage, NOT a spike, will cause device to fail since it is trying to keep voltage down. 3 wire devices ARE better, too complicated to explain here. One benefit of installing these, but this is never mentioned by manufacture, is that the life of your incandescent like bulbs will be significantly increased. Do install these, use 3 wire devices. Frequently spikes caused by lightning come from GROUND going very high, not HOT going high. Anyway, in spite of all the bad info, do install these.
You are incorrect about connecting it to the neutral. You want the surge shunted to ground. Doesnt make any difference in a main service. In a sub panel you would connect it to the ground bar or case not neutral. Keep the objectional current off the neutral.
Thank you for the knowledge you have to pass on to others. I learned a couple of things by watching this video. I would install a SPD at the indoor panels like you did. Reason in some jurisdiction you have to have them install it if outside your residence. That could be an issue. Also what about a 3ph panel would you do the same, as some shops have the power source? I like that they make different styles to fit recessed and other panels. Great video, thank you.
@@brussels13207 You are wrong, because That's exactly what I said. Oh, and those "many shots" need to be very small. Anything real surge and it will fry. It's simply the nature of the science and the device.
@@rustusandroid not the ones we sold. I don’t remember exact specs but as I remember them, a 20mm MOV would take 1 50,000 amps shot, maybe 50 10,000 shots. I direct hit just outside your house would give maybe 10,000 amps. We also made big ones for direct strikes, up to 100,000 amps. Very impressive to see them tested. We had test rig that could give 250,000 amp shots. Whole building would shake.
In the central coast area of CA we have Eucalyptus trees that shed large strips of bark especially after a rain. The wet strips land on power lines and short them. The utility company tries to burn the offending bark strips off the lines by jacking up the voltage, which may work, at which point we have a surge. We suffer many brownouts and surges all winter long.
I have 3panels the Main panel has a big breaker on it surge protector friend of mine installed. I have two other panels and apparently lightning hit the water behind my house or something and blew out my water pump on my boat, which was hooked up to electrical outlet and the two outlets so therefore I am putting a protector on my other two boxes to cover my butt. Thank you for your information.
I live in Delray Beach, FL and my parents said years ago (this is my mom's house and I live with her) lightning "hit" the house and ruined all the wiring in the house and the electric panel box. My mom told me electricians had to re-wire all outlets plus the panel. Now, they have a surge protector that is connected to the back of the meter. I wondered why there was a red light on their meter and I didn't see it on others. Florida Power and Light have been charging us $12 a month for this thing. We have SPD's that are connected to outlets and our appliances (except frig and maybe air conditioner and some other larger appliances like washing machine and dryer.) You're saying that the surge protector won't help if lightning hits her again!! It only helps if the surge is coming from the company. Why do they charge money every month? Shouldn't it be a one time charge for the device?
Most most excellent video Ben. Answered all my questions for the most part. Thank you for posting it! My panel is flush to the wall. Would I be able to install your surge protector inside of the panel if there’s room? The one you showed at the farm had lots of room in it. Is there any issue with having it installed internally?
H.V.A.C. mechanic here . Went on no a/c call lightning strike in backyard hit utility pole went down jumped onto chain link fence traveled along fence to a/c condenser where it left the energized fence and blew a hole in refrigerant line old man next door saw the whole thing!!!
Great video ... Your a natural Instructor BTW for videos. Thorough explanations and good voice for them. 👌.. I rent a farm house in a rural location and frequently experience electrical interruptions. Having many computer devices in house because I do repairs on the side I think a SP in main box is a must do for me. Thanks!
For the abb outside panel model could I install it inside my panel and just have it hang inside? I assume not since it’s not securely mounted. My panel is in a finished install and every slot is filled. Which model could I use and have installed inside that’s not a breaker model? I have a square d qo panel, it’s the non plug on neutral model. But I can double tap my breakers.
The location of the breaker you use is not important. Surges travel at a velocity very close to the speed of light, about 1000 ft per microsecond. For a surge with a rise time of 1.2 microseconds, an SPD connected at the far end of the bus will start conducting before the surge has risen to 1/1000 of its peak value at the incoming terminals.
19:49 Hi. I’m learning about Surge, UPS’s, AiPower Gen.7100iRD specifically, with less than 3THD’s and about THD. Total harmonic distortion. My concern is to have a clean Sine Wave going to my 130,000 btu 4 zone BURNHAM Boiler(Hot water baseboard), along with a AMTROL 80 gallon storage tank (separate zone valve) I do not want to Fry anything on Boiler/boards/zone valves/circulator pump/thermostat wiring/transformer, etc.Being the Gen. states less than 3THD, I still don’t trust it completely. So is there a device that mounts on the CB panel like the Type1 or 2 Surge protector or do I have to change from my on/off SWITCH on the Boiler to a 12/3 3 prong pigtail and when I turn on my Gen. then plug in my pigtail into a 1500va UPS (clean sine wave) first, then plug that into the Receptacle/Switch going into my boiler (no longer hardwired) with my Generator powering my panel to my Boiler. I have a duel 30amp on the PANEL from my 30amp power input plug from Generator with a Interlock to use to shut my 100amp cb off and move interlock up and turn on the duel 30amp . Please tell me/CORRECT me if this is proper and do they make a Clean Sine Wave Device that I can also mount externally on my panel to protect as many circuits that I turn on while using Generator Power? Sorry it’s so long. Please answer. I think your great helping/teaching your fans out with your knowledge! Please correct me teach me where necessary. I am so open to learn what I do not know. Thanks again. All the best to you, family and channel. Mike i.
I have read that a large amount of surges are generated inside the home. For example from an AC/heat pump turning off/on, also a refrigerator, and possibly other devices. Likely much less of a surge than if there were a lightning strike in the area though.
I agree, type 3 surge protectors are worthwhile even if you have a good type 1 or type 2. Lightning is not the only source of transient voltage spikes from your mains though, so type 1 or type 2 are still a good investment, best incorporated with type 3 on all sensitive electronics.
Surges generated inside the home should not blow up equipment & start fires - I lost a hard drive with a storm related surge - I lost computer serial ports from storm surge - I lost network switch ports from storm surge - I lost internet routers from storm surge - I lost stereo equipment from storm surge - a friend’s outlet was smoking & caught fire with everything attached being blown up from a storm surge just a few weeks back This is the stuff we have to seriously worry about
These small events cause damage over time. Lightning is what most people are talking about here but voltage spikes from inside the home are far more common and, over time, just as destructive.
can I install this on a 20A DP breaker that is installed just for this thing to connect to? I didn't have a surge strategy until your video gave me the idea!
I would prefer a whole house series mode surge protector instead of common mode surge protectors that use MOVs, because they degrade over time. That being said... I have not seen such a device, at least not yet.
10.14.22 Nice video Ben. Question: I do not see the flush mount kit that you spoke about. My panel is mounted back in the wall. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
I noticed that too. He mentioned that he killed the power from another location, which means this is a sub panel, but the neutral and the ground are definitely bonded. Maybe we don't understand what we're seeing?
@@im2yys4u81 I originally posted the comment early on in the video and hadn’t watched the whole thing. As you can see he had replied to my comment about why they are tied. In short, the main box that is on the pole in the middle of the yard. Services 3 (4?) buildings on the property. And they were done so long ago, it was before a time when ground and neutral had to be separated. And the OG electrician ran a 3 conductor cable, 2 hots and a neutral. Hence why they are tied at the “sub” panels.
I have the same situation and was thinking I needed to try to run a 4th conductor back to the pole, but is it acceptable to leave it bonded at the sub?
Question: Are Surge Protectors with a Ground wire proper with being installed in situations where there is an unbonded ground to neutral (such as in subpanels) or do the surge protectors with ground wiring have isolated ground and neutral wiring?
Excellent video, and thank you! Can you tell us about Surge Receptacles (Duplex)? I’ve been wondering if I should be using it for my kitchen refrigerator. Any thoughts?
I have a house built in 1958 with two prong all over it. I added an office in back and an electrician friend of mine grounded all of those outlets within the office. Thankfully, there were two places left within the box. I have lost a refrigerator, a stove, and numerous other small items due to power surges. I am out of electrical places within the main box. So therefore I have purchased many APC units and have probably spent well over $1000 to protect Four desktops three laptops and nine computer screens as well as other equipment within my office. I didn’t think about contacting the insurance company concerning the 1958 Tappan oven that I had to completely rebuild. I took it out and into the driveway and washed it and shined it until it looked brand new. Placed it back within me cabinet it was in. Had to find a heating element for it. It was a gas stove. And I could only find one in the entire world and it was $320. My family kept saying get a new oven but I would’ve had to completely remodel, my kitchen and I done that and I loved the tappen..oven. So after buying that and reinstalling the oven, a friend of mine and I routed a copper wire to a place near the main electrical outside box box that we thought would go directly to the earth. So far so good. Now though I am completely out of possible space in my officeand need additional outlets. Thank you for your video and info. Very informative.
Excellent video 👍 old school school wire strippers👍 healthy fear yeah fear. Of electricity. 👍 The torque driver is in the truck 😅 👍 The second click was exactly 35# 👍 One hit. After adjusting your wires in the chase retorque the wires / screws. So many times building industrial control panels I noticed the wires can loosen up after making tidy cleaning up bends etc 👍
So question. Got one of these (HEPD80). All of my top slots in the panel are taken by single pole 15A breakers. Toward the bottom of my panel is where I have 20-30A double pole breakers (well, AC, sub panel, dryer) can this be installed further down in the panel (i.e. slot 23 on my well breaker) or should I move my well breaker to slots 1&3 and swap two single pole breakers down to where the well breaker was. In this situation I’d have to extend some wires with wire nuts due to moving those circuits down.
As I watch, the company that services the lines all and said "They were aware of over 1000 customer without service in your area and were working on resolving the problem." Hurricane just hit and they are responsible the trimming the trees from those lines. Well those trees arced and we had no power for 3 days. Furthermore, it cost me almost $400 as it blew my 4 year old A/C system's blower motor. Not happy and looking for solutions and this will be one of them. 👍
I use a whole house SPD in the panel and have been installing SPD receptacles where all my computer/ electronic equipment is plugged in. Also have one for my Fridge as a compressor starting up can create a voltage spike. SPDs work in both direction of current flow which allows multiple layers of protection to be effective
Are these effective against lightning strike surges? I live in Florida and have had my share of electronics damaged from lightning strikes. Can get expensive real quick. Thanks for another informative video.
It depends on how much of the lightning surge you get. There is nothing that you can install at a reasonable price that will protect you from a direct (or very close) lightning strike.
I've noticed when the surge comes in from an outside post light, outside flood light, or, in one case, a boat house, the whole house surge protector didn't seem to be as effective as hoped. Maybe the distance from the breaker controlling the post or the boat house was some distance from the protection device. In the future, I'm going to move those breakers close to the surge protector.
One question. Since the main disconnect was so far away and out of the line of sight. Would it be good practice to put a lock on the main disconnect while working so nobody turns it on while the work is being performed?
Its always a good idea even in residential work....if you have a main and sub panel or multiple sub panels. In commercial work I think its mandatory to do lock-outs when doing service panel work, as well as working on any individual circuits...you can never have too many safeguards when it comes to electrical work.
Have to say why didnt you just move that breaker and install Aa breaker for the surge , also I have never seen a real electrician use long nose plier like that . Unless they were fishing. For me I would have replaced the white wire on that breaker. I never worked with electrians put a white on a breaker . I really think you should stop doing g electrical work. As a inspector I would not let you ever put 2 wires on a breaker you do not know about ark fault conditions you probably wont ever know Iam 134 ibew inspector . You are red tagged 🛑 what you rtg doing.
I had some leftover cement backerboard from tiling my bathroom and used it to place behind it and like a little shelf on top so that flames would not spark up to the joists in the basement. Yet, what is important is never to install inside the breaker/distribution panel. They burn or explode (as they should because they are sacrificial) and I would not like that to happen inside.
I have a main panel with a spd on it. Can i add a spd on ac cb in this panel? My sub panel does not have a main cb, how should a spd be installed in sub ? TIA
The Eaton CHSPT1 and CHSPT2 surge protectors instructions state "have one twist per inch to reduce the impedance of the wire." I hear several conflicting things about how to install these things - should they be as straight as possible or twisted?
The only lightning strike I've had was years ago where lightning struck the metal chimney on the hose, traveled down it, arced through the sheetrock somehow to a grounded can light and to ground. The main losses were every PC in the house and the main network switch due to the inductive surge picked up by the network cabling that torched every Ethernet port that had a cable connected to it. When I took the switch apart, there was lots of evidence of magic smoke getting out.
When I want to do a new electrical install I can generally find you've done a video on it. Watching then gives me confidence to attempt it and be safe and be in code . I have installed a Seimens whole house surge protector at my place. Thanks for your videos and keep it up.
My big issue with an SPD is how do you tell if it has failed or has taken multiple hits degrading its performance and reducing its effectiveness? If it functions as designed you might never know it has failed because it has done its job properly.
REALLY need one of these here in Nawth Florida, we have surges where the lights dim repeated times back to back, I'm told that our rural Co Op electrical has a special meter that can replace the original one that's for surges, BUT, I think it is a extra charge per month, is what you installed just as good as the different meter??
Great instructional video. One question though....can it be hooked to a larger double pole breaker within the main box rather than the 20 amp one you showed? My main panel is outside and after the 200 amp main breaker there are only 50 amp double pole breakers and no extra spots for another breaker. Thanks
Questions for you. You say that there is a disconnect on the outside but you take off the panel cover and the nuetral and ground are together?? Shouldn't they be separated since that is after the disconnect?? And shouldn't there be ser instead of seu?? Just curious. Or maybe you pulled out the meter?? Not bashing you just curious.
Under what code can you put a unprotected device on mains/line side? My understanding of the NEC code this is not allowed any more and has not been for long time.
I thought this was covered fairly concisely. This isn't a power consuming device except in the case of a surge. It needs to be specifically rated Type1 to be installed on the line side. As a protection device, it is not unprotected. It also doesn't separate the line and load when the surge occurs, like a circuit breaker would. This attempts to shunt the surge back to the neutral faster than the trip time on a breaker. You might want to review how a breaker is intended to function. These shunts are often built into high end double conversion UPS units as protection for the UPS electronics. My question would instead be how do you check/tell when the device has failed as designed from suppressing a surge. If you can't check their operational status, you may no longer be protected and would not know it.
Next door neighbor rebuilt their entire kitchen. Fancy new appliances, controlled with state-of-the-art electronics. A few months later we had a huge power surge. Fried everything in their kitchen. Thousands in damages. That new stuff is EXPENSIVE. They got a whole house surge protector installed very quickly. Me ... I got hit with the same surge, but no fancy electronic appliances in MY kitchen. All Old School. My computers and electronics do, of course, have heavy duty surge protection.
Type 1 should be installed only outdoors with large wires like AWG5. Some type 1 SPD have piercing terminals for attaching to overhead power line. Ground wire is dedicated for spark gap. Your device is rated as type 1, but actually it has small wires and comes without spark gap to the ground. Your device will work properly only if the panel is connected to auxiliary power source like alternator. You should install type 1 in outdoor panel if you are using power from the utility company.
Hey Ben, Great video and thank you for all of your videos. I couldn't find any documentation stating the GE breaker lugs are rated for two wires each (like the QO). Where did you find out the GE terminations are rated for two? Thanks!
You asked for comments on issues with surges. I had a full power outage. Had a back-up subpanel set up for Generator. Cranked up the Generator and switched from main panel to back up panel. All was good for about 10 minutes. Then all hell broke lose. Had power surge that blew out anything with a circuit board (Garage opener, ice maker, ceiling fan, etc..). Luckily I had surge power strips for TV and a UPS for computer and they worked. The surge was so strong it melted the plastic cases on two surge power strips. While I had a whole house surge protector installed in my main panel I never thought of putting one in my generator panel. So everything connected to the generator panel received the surge. This little issue cost be several thousand dollars (insurance paid). The next day I had another whole house surge protector installed in the generator panel. I also took my generator to an electrical shop to have it check out to ensure it was not a generator issue. It checked out ok. I don't know exactly how the surge came through my main power line to my generator panel but my guess is the ground line may have become energized when the workers were working on the downed lines. Thanks for the great videos I learn a lot from you.
Hey Benjamin, here is my lightning/surge protector story:
I worked as a service electrician, so this was at a customer's house back in 2015 outside Atlanta, Georgia. The customer knew exactly where lightning struck the ground in her yard--there was a nice size hole. The lightning travelled into her garage thru the low-voltage side of the sprinkler system, blew up the sprinkler control box on the wall, then blew up the transformer plugged into an outlet on the ceiling (for a garage door opener, but none present). That also sent the outlet and metal box up and into the ceiling. I have a picture of it, but it won't let me attach here.
She already had a surge protector on her main panel, and I'd like to believe it prevented any further damage inside the home--although with lightning, you never know...
Unfortunately I don't remember the brand of the surge protector, now 7 years later.
Rich
Electrical Trainee, Your videos are top tier for learning. Thanks a bunch!
Excellent tutorial, I didn’t even know how easy they are to connect an add that over voltage protection. If you do install on your main breaker with knockouts on the bottom, like we have here in AZ, it would be a worth addition to your channel!
Loads of love teacher, you are a top top electrical engineer you know that?
I have done a quite a bit of research into the components of type 3 surge protection devices. Benjamin, you are correct about the voltage ratings, this is the voltage the unit will start clamping the voltage. The rather high voltage ratings are often but not always a result of marketing greed. The most common type of component used in these devices are MOV's. Within the same size of component (14mm dia. for example) a 200v provides the tightest protection but has a Max energy rating of 57Joules, a 680v has a 130 Joules rating but would not hinder a 600v surge from hitting your electronics. The reason sadly is that for a tiny increase in cost and within the same available space in the device, using the 680v MOV's allows the manufacturer to print a higher joule rating on the box, which will fool most consumers into thinking they are buying better protection, when in fact the opposite is true. Generally, the better more costly units have lower voltage ratings. Some exceptions to this is where the MOV's are used in conjunction with a GDT,, but that's a whole different rabbit hole !
This is not my understanding. As they are "Varistor"s, they begin to shunt voltage at approximately 10% above rating, with resistance decreasing until the clamping voltage, at which point the overage is completely shunted to neutral/ground.
You make good videos. Good advise on adding whole house surge protection. People protect computers and TV's with Tripp Lites but forget that almost every appliance is now "computer" controlled.
I don't have much faith in the Square D QO surgebreaker. The builder installed that model (in the middle of the panel - wrong location - max protection when installed on 1st breaker) and I lost 7 appliance controlllers over 5 years. I installed the largest Eaton CHSPT2-Ultra Whole House Surge Protector (~$140 plus a 50amp 240V breaker) 108K amps rating on the 1st breaker in the panel. In the 7 years since its installation; no more appliances have been lost.
I have a surge suppression device on my panel. During a power grid brown out, I heard the MOV’s inside the device making weird sounds. In the end, when I went to look at surge device, I noticed the green light dimming off and on. It saved my equipment for sure.
One advantage of using a Type 2 SPD is that it is still actively protecting the all panel circuits when your home's been switched over to generator power because a storm has caused commercial power to fail. Since a Type 2 SPD is on the load side of the main panel breaker it remains operational regardless whether the incoming power is from an alternate power source (generator) or from normal commercial power.
Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Love your content! You are a real educator! You were pinging all my questions as I watched. FANTASTIC!!!
Benjamin, I have a lot of tall concrete waterfalls, deep concrete fish / duck ponds, 15' tall pens on property constructed of heavy gauge horse panels. Over all, I've installed 8 - 10 foot copper ground rods connected with 6 gauge copper wire and heavy duty clamps to any tall heavy gauge wire cages and any structural rebar in the concrete walls of ponds and waterfalls. After 20 years, no damage from heavy lightening storms. Some of the structures have 2 ground rods. All ground clamps are cleaned yearly and sprayed with enamel paint to prevent heavy oxidation. I am assuming all the ground rods have help protect the main building from surges. I must say, I do like the one you installed and will get a couple to protect sensitive equipment for added peace of mind. Hate dealing with insurance claims.....it's a racket.
I worked for Schneider electric / Square D. I recently moved in a new home in AZ.
I recommend also installing surge protection on your central air conditioner outside disconnect box. I used A Square D model SDSA1175. It will help protect your compressor motor and electronics.
On a interesting note the instructions mention if your leads are over 12 inches you should twist them together several times.
Bill
Great recommendation. Thanks for sharing!
Wouldn't an inductive load like a motor better handle a surge?
Yes a motor can handle a surge better.
The surge protection in this application is installed more to protect the associated electronics in the hvac package.
But there is another reason. Every time you start the compressor the inrush current causes a spike on your power line that can cause issues with other electronic equipment in your home.
@@williamradwanski1998 Wouldn't it be better to added another capacitor then? Its like your dam is running out of water because you didn't build the dam big enough. If it was the right size, it could handle the fluctuations in the line. I wish whole home power factor correction capacitors were common item.
@@genuismensa I know they recommend putting extra capacitor on the HVAC if you have a back up generator to make it easier on the generator when the compressor starts! The HVAC makers try to save a few pennies buy putting the minimum cap in!😪
just added a Eaton whole panel surge protector hopefully they work as good as they say they do
Recently replaced my circa 1978 panel with a 40 space GE panel. I used a GE surge protector that snaps into panel. I stalked in top left 2 spaces.
Nice!
Great video. Would love to see something about installing surge protectors properly to Generac style home transfer switch panels.
The 2 tools that I wanted to buy are at 2:34 and 12:14-12:28. You don't have links here to those 2 nor are they in your other pages (favorite tools).
Nice video. I use to work for a public electric utility in Mass. and had a customer that the washer and dryer were welded together with about a 2" hole blown between them when a lightening strike hit the transformer outside their property, another time a new coiled up extenstion cord blew up like spaghetti when hit with lightning, also blew out the surge protector on the side of the panel. Thanks for a great video.
To be clear for others reading this.... SPD's won't protect from direct lightning strikes....right?
From my POW, SPD with additional ground wire is intended to use in downstream breaker panels, where N and G wires are independent. Because, a neutral wire also needs protection, and such SPD must have N-G protection, in addition to L1-G and L2-G protections. (Of course, L1-N and L2-N protections are mandatory). Protections from any of active wires (L1,L2, N) to G are useful in electronics and IT equipment.
Also, it may be useful to protect EV charging point (EVSE) by SPD to increase surge protection level for EV's onboard charging converter.
Additionally, the less resistance of each of local grounding systems (sets of grounding electrodes at each property's building) - the better surge protection level.
The L1-L2-N lines are protected using MOV's that provide a clamp to the surge. The N-G is protected with a gas discharge tube that essentially provides a 0 volt clamp between neutral and ground when fired. This is because the nominal N-G voltage IS zero.
@@SoundzRite I wonder if I installed my type 2 Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA correctly in my 52 year old GE split bus panel. The instructions state to install through a dedicated 50 A breaker. The top portion with the 2-pole breakers was full so I installed the surge protector through a 50 A 2-pole compact breaker in the lower section where all the 1-pole breakers are placed. The lower section is fed by a 60 A 2-pole breaker in the upper section. Maybe I should just put the L1 and L2 in the 50 A 2-pole breaker for the electric range in the upper section. Alternatively, I could install three compact breakers (30 A, 40 A, 50 A) in the left side upper. The sticker indicates that those would fit in place of the two full sized breakers there now (30 A for ele dryer, 40 A for A/C condensing unit).
Just had Eaton put in and use 50 amp breaker
Love it cause it showed there was more damage after small fire
Wire ached to stable
We also had fuse safety switch put in cause breakers didn't trip
Benjamin, new panels come with spade male terminals where you can connect directly to the service entrance connectors. I was happy to see mine did. I am glad you mentioned that is not allowed to insert in the same terminal as the service entrance conductors though, but the terminals now have that itty bitty little spade male thingy pointing up and with a 1/4 female spade terminal is a breeze and allowed. That is the beauty of the Type 1, no cannibalizing precious breaker real estate inside the distribution panel.
😂🤣🤣
The more the better, and one on meter can is good per code, shortest wires is best. Most all of these under $100 use MOV's and the expensive ones use SASD diodes. The light checks circuit integrity, because these may be damaged after a big surge. I had some melt with sustained over voltage. Remember a power dip is not a surge. Good info here.
I ALWAYS change a MOV after a surge. i also had many change values after a surge
@@rty1955 How do you test value, they are open till a specific voltage?
I looked up the Square D Homeline and it's only good up to 900 joules. Do you know if installing two would make a difference? I'm putting these in a 100 amp Square D sub panel that is fed from a 200 amp Crouse-Hinds main that is outside. They don't make them for the Crouse-Hinds, but my sub is what feeds my lights, receptacles, tv's, and computer. Thanks.
. Nice Job Again!
@@im2yys4u81 Sure the more the better, i 've installed hundreds of those Square D's and they're ok, certainly more better expensive ones...They all parallel and add up.
These protectors are good, but just your basic suppressor, they take the brunt of the surge, but let high enough volage through to damage your sensitive computerized devices. You MUST add a secondary protector at each location for each device, such as a Tripp Lite ISOBLOK2-0, etc., etc. These devices clamp the voltage lower and the SPEED of the clamping is faster. Instead of milliseconds a silicon avalanche protector works in nanoseconds. Tripp Lite has proven to me, as a telecommunications specialist, to be excellent. I have seen these take a hit, had visible black stains from its seams, and after replacing it, the attached equipment worked like new. Tripp Lite also replaces their surge damaged devices too (keep your receipts).
Thanks for the link to the Square D Homeline breaker. I've been looking for that with no success.
No problem!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom See my note above. The Homeline dual function breakers are on National back order until at least March of 2023. Schneider won't honor a warranty on breakers bought on eBay or Amazon, and it's a crap shoot as to whether you're getting the real deal, or a flawed breaker.
I don't see how this can be considered a whole house surge protector (by the way you installed it). It will protect the circuit downstream of the 20A breaker, but after that breaker trips the rest of the panel will still be experiencing the power surge. I would suggest you attach the THOMESURGE directly to the buss bar like the internal version does. That would cause the MAIN breaker to trip in a surge situation thus protecting the whole house.
Surges rarely last more than a full cycle, and more rarely ever trip the breaker, (if ever).
Excellent video with tons of information!
I was wondering about surges happening outside your property.(other side of transformer) Transformer at your property is "tuned" for 50 or 60Hz, surges we talk a few nano seconds. In my opinion surges from outside should be filtered by the transformer(effective low pass filter) Would love to hear comments.
Dude this a video I’ve been wanting to see - Aaamazing
& lightning flash counter installation procedure.More power& god bless
I prefer the Siemens FS140 unit and purchased that one, it will go in my Square D, QO panel
My only surge protection are cheap power strips that may or may not do anything other than overload an outlet. So I rely on that, plus homeowners insurance and on disconnecting things when there is a severe thunderstorm warning and I see the lightning.
Since this is a sub panel, would it not be a code violation to land your neutral on the ground bar since bonding should only occur at the service entrance or main panel?
You said there is an upline primary disconnect. This box is then by definition a sub panel. Your grounds and neutrals in this box, by code, may not be bonded and must be separated.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Wow! I worked for GE marketing MOVs. I have never seen so much incorrect info in one place before. They are NOT 1 shot devices. 1 device placed anywhere in circuit should protect whole circuit. A constant over voltage, NOT a spike, will cause device to fail since it is trying to keep voltage down. 3 wire devices ARE better, too complicated to explain here. One benefit of installing these, but this is never mentioned by manufacture, is that the life of your incandescent like bulbs will be significantly increased. Do install these, use 3 wire devices. Frequently spikes caused by lightning come from GROUND going very high, not HOT going high. Anyway, in spite of all the bad info, do install these.
You are incorrect about connecting it to the neutral. You want the surge shunted to ground. Doesnt make any difference in a main service. In a sub panel you would connect it to the ground bar or case not neutral. Keep the objectional current off the neutral.
Thank you for the knowledge you have to pass on to others. I learned a couple of things by watching this video. I would install a SPD at the indoor panels like you did. Reason in some jurisdiction you have to have them install it if outside your residence. That could be an issue. Also what about a 3ph panel would you do the same, as some shops have the power source? I like that they make different styles to fit recessed and other panels. Great video, thank you.
Good job, Radar!
Also remember, these are one shot deals. If it actually stops a huge surge, then you will need to buy a new one.
☝
You are wrong. These can take many shots. How many depends on how big the surge is.
@@brussels13207 You are wrong, because That's exactly what I said. Oh, and those "many shots" need to be very small. Anything real surge and it will fry. It's simply the nature of the science and the device.
@@rustusandroid not the ones we sold. I don’t remember exact specs but as I remember them, a 20mm MOV would take 1 50,000 amps shot, maybe 50 10,000 shots. I direct hit just outside your house would give maybe 10,000 amps. We also made big ones for direct strikes, up to 100,000 amps. Very impressive to see them tested. We had test rig that could give 250,000 amp shots. Whole building would shake.
@@brussels13207 Give me the model or part number to this elusive device.
In the central coast area of CA we have Eucalyptus trees that shed large strips of bark especially after a rain. The wet strips land on power lines and short them. The utility company tries to burn the offending bark strips off the lines by jacking up the voltage, which may work, at which point we have a surge. We suffer many brownouts and surges all winter long.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Eaton line side (type-2) have ground wires (green with a yellow stripe).
I have 3panels the Main panel has a big breaker on it surge protector friend of mine installed. I have two other panels and apparently lightning hit the water behind my house or something and blew out my water pump on my boat, which was hooked up to electrical outlet and the two outlets so therefore I am putting a protector on my other two boxes to cover my butt. Thank you for your information.
I live in Delray Beach, FL and my parents said years ago (this is my mom's house and I live with her) lightning "hit" the house and ruined all the wiring in the house and the electric panel box. My mom told me electricians had to re-wire all outlets plus the panel. Now, they have a surge protector that is connected to the back of the meter. I wondered why there was a red light on their meter and I didn't see it on others. Florida Power and Light have been charging us $12 a month for this thing. We have SPD's that are connected to outlets and our appliances (except frig and maybe air conditioner and some other larger appliances like washing machine and dryer.) You're saying that the surge protector won't help if lightning hits her again!! It only helps if the surge is coming from the company. Why do they charge money every month? Shouldn't it be a one time charge for the device?
Most most excellent video Ben. Answered all my questions for the most part. Thank you for posting it! My panel is flush to the wall. Would I be able to install your surge protector inside of the panel if there’s room? The one you showed at the farm had lots of room in it. Is there any issue with having it installed internally?
I say god damn dude, that was super informative! Thanks! Also expensive, I have four panels on my property! Eek
H.V.A.C. mechanic here . Went on no a/c call lightning strike in backyard hit utility pole went down jumped onto chain link fence traveled along fence to a/c condenser where it left the energized fence and blew a hole in refrigerant line old man next door saw the whole thing!!!
Great video ... Your a natural Instructor BTW for videos. Thorough explanations and good voice for them. 👌.. I rent a farm house in a rural location and frequently experience electrical interruptions. Having many computer devices in house because I do repairs on the side I think a SP in main box is a must do for me. Thanks!
For the abb outside panel model could I install it inside my panel and just have it hang inside? I assume not since it’s not securely mounted. My panel is in a finished install and every slot is filled. Which model could I use and have installed inside that’s not a breaker model? I have a square d qo panel, it’s the non plug on neutral model. But I can double tap my breakers.
The location of the breaker you use is not important. Surges travel at a velocity very close to the speed of light, about 1000 ft per microsecond. For a surge with a rise time of 1.2 microseconds, an SPD connected at the far end of the bus will start conducting before the surge has risen to 1/1000 of its peak value at the incoming terminals.
Why do you not have the availability for us to save your videos for later reference? There's no save button available above.
Not an electrician -can you reasonably explain to me why not divert surge to the ground?
We had the electric company install a surge behind the meter
wish our electric company could have done that in our country Trinidad 🇹🇹
19:49 Hi. I’m learning about Surge, UPS’s, AiPower Gen.7100iRD specifically,
with less than 3THD’s and about THD. Total harmonic distortion.
My concern is to have a clean Sine Wave going to my 130,000 btu 4 zone BURNHAM Boiler(Hot water baseboard), along with a AMTROL 80 gallon storage tank (separate zone valve) I do not want to Fry anything on Boiler/boards/zone valves/circulator pump/thermostat wiring/transformer, etc.Being the Gen. states less than 3THD, I still don’t trust it completely. So is there a device that mounts on the CB panel like the Type1 or 2 Surge protector or do I have to change from my on/off SWITCH on the Boiler to a 12/3 3 prong pigtail and when I turn on my Gen. then plug in my pigtail into a 1500va UPS (clean sine wave) first, then plug that into the Receptacle/Switch going into my boiler (no longer hardwired) with my Generator powering my panel to my Boiler. I have a duel 30amp on the PANEL from my 30amp power input plug from Generator with a Interlock to use to shut my 100amp cb off and move interlock up and turn on the duel 30amp . Please tell me/CORRECT me if this is proper and do they make a Clean Sine Wave Device that I can also mount externally on my panel to protect as many circuits that I turn on while using Generator Power? Sorry it’s so long. Please answer. I think your great helping/teaching your fans out with your knowledge!
Please correct me teach me where necessary. I am so open to learn what I do not know. Thanks again.
All the best to you, family and channel. Mike i.
thanks for the video. and for all viewers- heed his advice: "always treat it like it's live"
I have read that a large amount of surges are generated inside the home. For example from an AC/heat pump turning off/on, also a refrigerator, and possibly other devices. Likely much less of a surge than if there were a lightning strike in the area though.
I agree, type 3 surge protectors are worthwhile even if you have a good type 1 or type 2. Lightning is not the only source of transient voltage spikes from your mains though, so type 1 or type 2 are still a good investment, best incorporated with type 3 on all sensitive electronics.
Surges generated inside the home should not blow up equipment & start fires
- I lost a hard drive with a storm related surge
- I lost computer serial ports from storm surge
- I lost network switch ports from storm surge
- I lost internet routers from storm surge
- I lost stereo equipment from storm surge
- a friend’s outlet was smoking & caught fire with everything attached being blown up from a storm surge just a few weeks back
This is the stuff we have to seriously worry about
These small events cause damage over time. Lightning is what most people are talking about here but voltage spikes from inside the home are far more common and, over time, just as destructive.
Just put in a Siemens FS140, has a neutral and a ground wire!😲😲
Great video enjoyed it, do you have a video on replacing a sub panel. Thanks
can I install this on a 20A DP breaker that is installed just for this thing to connect to? I didn't have a surge strategy until your video gave me the idea!
The QO surge plug in SPD is rated 50KA and is a far superior product/install. Why would you put a GE product in a SqD panel??
I would prefer a whole house series mode surge protector instead of common mode surge protectors that use MOVs, because they degrade over time. That being said... I have not seen such a device, at least not yet.
10.14.22
Nice video Ben. Question: I do not see the flush mount kit that you spoke about. My panel is mounted back in the wall. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Does this protect just that breaker or the whole fuse panel?
Also how can you tell when that it's bad and not working anymore?
Question, why is that panel set up as a main? Ground and neutral together. When you were able to disconnect power before the panel?
I noticed that too. He mentioned that he killed the power from another location, which means this is a sub panel, but the neutral and the ground are definitely bonded. Maybe we don't understand what we're seeing?
I kind of explained it at the end of the video but basically they didn't run a 4th conductor originally.
@@im2yys4u81 I originally posted the comment early on in the video and hadn’t watched the whole thing. As you can see he had replied to my comment about why they are tied.
In short, the main box that is on the pole in the middle of the yard. Services 3 (4?) buildings on the property. And they were done so long ago, it was before a time when ground and neutral had to be separated. And the OG electrician ran a 3 conductor cable, 2 hots and a neutral. Hence why they are tied at the “sub” panels.
I have the same situation and was thinking I needed to try to run a 4th conductor back to the pole, but is it acceptable to leave it bonded at the sub?
Question: Are Surge Protectors with a Ground wire proper with being installed in situations where there is an unbonded ground to neutral (such as in subpanels) or do the surge protectors with ground wiring have isolated ground and neutral wiring?
Excellent video, and thank you! Can you tell us about Surge Receptacles (Duplex)? I’ve been wondering if I should be using it for my kitchen refrigerator. Any thoughts?
I just have a concern. Do we need a dedicated breaker for the power surge or we can add to to Any 2 pole breaker close to the line side
I have a house built in 1958 with two prong all over it. I added an office in back and an electrician friend of mine grounded all of those outlets within the office. Thankfully, there were two places left within the box. I have lost a refrigerator, a stove, and numerous other small items due to power surges. I am out of electrical places within the main box. So therefore I have purchased many APC units and have probably spent well over $1000 to protect Four desktops three laptops and nine computer screens as well as other equipment within my office. I didn’t think about contacting the insurance company concerning the 1958 Tappan oven that I had to completely rebuild. I took it out and into the driveway and washed it and shined it until it looked brand new. Placed it back within me cabinet it was in. Had to find a heating element for it. It was a gas stove. And I could only find one in the entire world and it was $320. My family kept saying get a new oven but I would’ve had to completely remodel, my kitchen and I done that and I loved the tappen..oven. So after buying that and reinstalling the oven, a friend of mine and I routed a copper wire to a place near the main electrical outside box box that we thought would go directly to the earth. So far so good. Now though I am completely out of possible space in my officeand need additional outlets. Thank you for your video and info. Very informative.
Excellent video 👍 old school school wire strippers👍 healthy fear yeah fear. Of electricity. 👍
The torque driver is in the truck 😅 👍
The second click was exactly 35# 👍
One hit. After adjusting your wires in the chase retorque the wires / screws. So many times building industrial control panels I noticed the wires can loosen up after making tidy cleaning up bends etc 👍
So question. Got one of these (HEPD80). All of my top slots in the panel are taken by single pole 15A breakers. Toward the bottom of my panel is where I have 20-30A double pole breakers (well, AC, sub panel, dryer) can this be installed further down in the panel (i.e. slot 23 on my well breaker) or should I move my well breaker to slots 1&3 and swap two single pole breakers down to where the well breaker was. In this situation I’d have to extend some wires with wire nuts due to moving those circuits down.
As I watch, the company that services the lines all and said "They were aware of over 1000 customer without service in your area and were working on resolving the problem." Hurricane just hit and they are responsible the trimming the trees from those lines. Well those trees arced and we had no power for 3 days. Furthermore, it cost me almost $400 as it blew my 4 year old A/C system's blower motor. Not happy and looking for solutions and this will be one of them.
👍
Can i do this myself or do i need to call an eletrician
That's great for an exposed box, but most houses have that box buried in a wall with no access to the side of the box.
Is there any benefit to installing a meter-based surge protector in addition to one at the panel?
I recently added a Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protector (140,000 A at
How can you connect the surge protector directly to the main feed without using a breaker space?
What can I do if i dont have spaces in my breaker box?
I use a whole house SPD in the panel and have been installing SPD receptacles where all my computer/ electronic equipment is plugged in. Also have one for my Fridge as a compressor starting up can create a voltage spike.
SPDs work in both direction of current flow which allows multiple layers of protection to be effective
What surge protector like this would you use for exterior, weather applications? Our 200 Amp breaker box is outside the house.
What about the EMPs? And what if you have 50 amp breakers?
Are these effective against lightning strike surges? I live in Florida and have had my share of electronics damaged from lightning strikes. Can get expensive real quick. Thanks for another informative video.
It depends on how much of the lightning surge you get. There is nothing that you can install at a reasonable price that will protect you from a direct (or very close) lightning strike.
I've noticed when the surge comes in from an outside post light, outside flood light, or, in one case, a boat house, the whole house surge protector didn't seem to be as effective as hoped. Maybe the distance from the breaker controlling the post or the boat house was some distance from the protection device. In the future, I'm going to move those breakers close to the surge protector.
One question. Since the main disconnect was so far away and out of the line of sight. Would it be good practice to put a lock on the main disconnect while working so nobody turns it on while the work is being performed?
yes it would be good practice to lock out
I'd say that should be a requirement, for sure. Otherwise it's as good as live.
Yes, it freaks me out, especially if there are nosy neighbors or old geezers and kids around.
Its always a good idea even in residential work....if you have a main and sub panel or multiple sub panels. In commercial work I think its mandatory to do lock-outs when doing service panel work, as well as working on any individual circuits...you can never have too many safeguards when it comes to electrical work.
Have to say why didnt you just move that breaker and install
Aa breaker for the surge , also I have never seen a real electrician use long nose plier like that . Unless they were fishing. For me I would have replaced the white wire on that breaker. I never worked with electrians put a white on a breaker . I really think you should stop doing g electrical work. As a inspector I would not let you ever put 2 wires on a breaker you do not know about ark fault conditions you probably wont ever know
Iam 134 ibew inspector . You are red tagged 🛑 what you rtg doing.
Should the SPD be installed in an enclosure to contain fire risks from SPD failure?
I had some leftover cement backerboard from tiling my bathroom and used it to place behind it and like a little shelf on top so that flames would not spark up to the joists in the basement. Yet, what is important is never to install inside the breaker/distribution panel. They burn or explode (as they should because they are sacrificial) and I would not like that to happen inside.
"Now I'm going to simulate a surge..." (cut)
😆
I have a main panel with a spd on it. Can i add a spd on ac cb in this panel? My sub panel does not have a main cb, how should a spd be installed in sub ? TIA
The Eaton CHSPT1 and CHSPT2 surge protectors instructions state "have one twist per inch to reduce the impedance of the wire." I hear several conflicting things about how to install these things - should they be as straight as possible or twisted?
The only lightning strike I've had was years ago where lightning struck the metal chimney on the hose, traveled down it, arced through the sheetrock somehow to a grounded can light and to ground. The main losses were every PC in the house and the main network switch due to the inductive surge picked up by the network cabling that torched every Ethernet port that had a cable connected to it. When I took the switch apart, there was lots of evidence of magic smoke getting out.
How long do surge protectors last before they need to be replaced?
Any functional or code issues when co-existing with an interlock setup?
When I want to do a new electrical install I can generally find you've done a video on it. Watching then gives me confidence to attempt it and be safe and be in code . I have installed a Seimens whole house surge protector at my place. Thanks for your videos and keep it up.
So ya can't put this surge protector on a 50 amp breaker? What about two single 20 amp breakers?
My big issue with an SPD is how do you tell if it has failed or has taken multiple hits degrading its performance and reducing its effectiveness? If it functions as designed you might never know it has failed because it has done its job properly.
It has an indicator light. If the light is off, the device needs to be replaced.
REALLY need one of these here in Nawth Florida, we have surges where the lights dim repeated times back to back, I'm told that our rural Co Op electrical has a special meter that can replace the original one that's for surges, BUT, I think it is a extra charge per month, is what you installed just as good as the different meter??
Great instructional video. One question though....can it be hooked to a larger double pole breaker within the main box rather than the 20 amp one you showed? My main panel is outside and after the 200 amp main breaker there are only 50 amp double pole breakers and no extra spots for another breaker. Thanks
This is my question too. I can't come up with a reason why the amp trip rating of a breaker would relate to a voltage surge.
Questions for you. You say that there is a disconnect on the outside but you take off the panel cover and the nuetral and ground are together?? Shouldn't they be separated since that is after the disconnect?? And shouldn't there be ser instead of seu?? Just curious. Or maybe you pulled out the meter?? Not bashing you just curious.
Under what code can you put a unprotected device on mains/line side? My understanding of the NEC code this is not allowed any more and has not been for long time.
I thought this was covered fairly concisely. This isn't a power consuming device except in the case of a surge. It needs to be specifically rated Type1 to be installed on the line side. As a protection device, it is not unprotected. It also doesn't separate the line and load when the surge occurs, like a circuit breaker would. This attempts to shunt the surge back to the neutral faster than the trip time on a breaker. You might want to review how a breaker is intended to function. These shunts are often built into high end double conversion UPS units as protection for the UPS electronics.
My question would instead be how do you check/tell when the device has failed as designed from suppressing a surge. If you can't check their operational status, you may no longer be protected and would not know it.
@@RowanHawkins Agree
Next door neighbor rebuilt their entire kitchen. Fancy new appliances, controlled with state-of-the-art electronics. A few months later we had a huge power surge. Fried everything in their kitchen. Thousands in damages. That new stuff is EXPENSIVE. They got a whole house surge protector installed very quickly.
Me ... I got hit with the same surge, but no fancy electronic appliances in MY kitchen. All Old School. My computers and electronics do, of course, have heavy duty surge protection.
Type 1 should be installed only outdoors with large wires like AWG5. Some type 1 SPD have piercing terminals for attaching to overhead power line. Ground wire is dedicated for spark gap.
Your device is rated as type 1, but actually it has small wires and comes without spark gap to the ground. Your device will work properly only if the panel is connected to auxiliary power source like alternator. You should install type 1 in outdoor panel if you are using power from the utility company.
Incorrect. It is in fact rated as a type 1 in the documentation from GE.
Will a surge protector help with THD
SPDs have no effect on harmonic distortion.
Hey Ben, Great video and thank you for all of your videos. I couldn't find any documentation stating the GE breaker lugs are rated for two wires each (like the QO). Where did you find out the GE terminations are rated for two? Thanks!
You asked for comments on issues with surges. I had a full power outage. Had a back-up subpanel set up for Generator. Cranked up the Generator and switched from main panel to back up panel. All was good for about 10 minutes. Then all hell broke lose. Had power surge that blew out anything with a circuit board (Garage opener, ice maker, ceiling fan, etc..). Luckily I had surge power strips for TV and a UPS for computer and they worked. The surge was so strong it melted the plastic cases on two surge power strips. While I had a whole house surge protector installed in my main panel I never thought of putting one in my generator panel. So everything connected to the generator panel received the surge. This little issue cost be several thousand dollars (insurance paid). The next day I had another whole house surge protector installed in the generator panel. I also took my generator to an electrical shop to have it check out to ensure it was not a generator issue. It checked out ok. I don't know exactly how the surge came through my main power line to my generator panel but my guess is the ground line may have become energized when the workers were working on the downed lines. Thanks for the great videos I learn a lot from you.