When the improvements are so easy to hear using earphones over UA-cam I can only imagine how profound it is in your system. Awesome demo, thanks! Now if only they could figure out how to correct the hole so you only have to do it once!
I have the same unit from DS Audio and agree that it is truly remarkable how much more relaxed and open the music sounds following eccentricity correction. However, I submit that the main reason for the sonic benefit isn’t pitch stability but, rather, ensuring the cartridge’s damper remains symmetrically compressed during playback. The advantages of measuring and controlling for horizontal torque forces has been known by anyone who uses a WallySkater properly. This DS Audio tool makes sure eccentricity doesn’t cause a constantly reversing horizontal torque (exacerbated by the 6:1 lever arm of the cantilever against the coil former). You referred to this dynamic force in your review when you correctly mentioned the horizontal reversal occurring twice per revolution. This situation would be worse on 45rpm due to higher horizontal velocities. THANK YOU, Greg, for this review!
Thanks for this, J. R. I may not have been as clear as I could have been in defining exactly what was happening. I simply wanted to find a way to explain that there were constantly changing horizontal dynamic forces causing undue stresses on the cantilever assembly that negatively impacted its ability to recreate the music in the groove accurately.
With this being such an expensive accessory. Would this be a good upgrade for a LP playback system in the $15000 range, or would it be better to upgrade the turntable? It is a cool piece of tech. I remember the Nakamichi turntable that did this as well.
It is the rare audiophile I speak with who remembers the nearly $1,800 Nakamichi Dragon-CT Computing Turntable that was introduced in the early '80s! As to your question, since I have no clue as to what your gear is now, what your biases and tastes are, or how much of an improvement you feel moving up might bring, I will only offer this. The DS Audio ES-001 contributes a CLEARLY AUDIBLE improvement with EVERY turntable system I've used it with - even my very modest "Second Space" vintage 'table and cart. www.theaudioanalyst.com/second_space/
I remember reading a review of the Nakamichi Dragon-CT in (Audio Magazine I think) . I know I still have that issue some in my basement. It’s good to know that it’s effective on more moderately priced turntables as well. Did you find the ES-001 to be effective on every record or just certain one? I have a VPI Classic with a DS Audio 003 system. I have been thinking about trying to max out the performance of the table I have. I am thinking about getting the DS Audio ION-001 ionizer. I hope see demonstrations of both the ES-001 and the ION-001 at the Capital Audio Fest next moth.
I have to be honest I thought this product was a bit gimmicky but having just watched your video yeah there is a huge difference, the timbre of the cymbals is cleaner with more depth as with the drums, more control 😁 I can't wait for the grand master video as I bet just like the stabiliser it won't leave your home 😁
To me personally it's the need for tight mechanical tolerances throughout the entire record/turntable/tone arm/cartridge combined that leads to the analogue sexiness, perhaps eventually digital replay will likely have the same fanatical Audiophile analysts .. Stella kisses and exotic hifi, winning combo. 👍🏻
This is vinyl playback at it’s most anal. Lately almost every new product that comes along is said to significantly improve the sound of our lps. So many new devices. Such little time. What happened to the days when you just put a record on the spindle, sat back and enjoyed it? In the 50s, my dad had a stereo console in the basement, nothing fancy. Yet, when he sat down to play records, he seemed truly content. And who can blame him? How does one judge pleasure? Would he have been happier having a $6000 device to correct eccentricity? I doubt it. Certainly everyone must decide for themselves how far they want to go, how much they want to spend to enhance vinyl playback. For me, this is a step WAY TOO FAR!
Look, you clearly don't get it...and that is perfectly fine, as I suggest in the episode. It is NOT for everyone... But if you have little or no experience at this level of playback, and you have never heard the contributions it makes at that level of accomplished sonic performance, don't worry about it. But also, if you're not familiar with what it is capable of, while you may clearly feel free to neither care nor appreciate it, you've also no valid point of view from which to criticize....so don't! EVERYONE should be happy with the sound they are getting from their current system, and no one, especially me, is suggesting anything otherwise... So long as you are moved by, and engaged with, your music, there is no need to worry about anything further. Thanks for watching... 🙂
You say I “clearly don’t get it.” I’m not sure what it is you think I don’t get. I said everyone must decide for themselves how much they want to spend to enhance vinyl playback. Each to his own. That was also essentially your point. I don’t doubt that this device can make a small difference. But is it worth it. I can’t help feel that a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference. And even if they could, would the small improvement be worth it? My opinion is no. Audiophiles notoriously overrate their listening abilities. Have you read the blind study where professional violinists couldn’t tell the difference between a modern violin and a Stradivarius? Some couldn’t even tell whether the violin they were playing was their own. I watched Fremer’s video using this device and couldn’t tell the difference between the music he played before and after the eccentricity was fixed. If there was a difference, it was tiny, certainly not worth using a $6000 device on every record to determine eccentricity. How did listeners manage all these many years to enjoy vinyl lps? I’ve read thousands of reviews through the years and rarely a comment about lack of centricity contributing to inferior sound. For me, this is a solution looking for a problem. Yes, records have been pressed off center but how many of us have such superior listening abilities that we can detect it, so much so that it ruins our listening experience. For those who can, great! Rush out immediately and buy the device. I would also note that you said you hadn’t yet received the device. So how would you know how much better playback would be? We’ve all seen outrageously expensive devices for better playback. Record weights that costs thousands of dollars, Shakti Hallowgraphs which I noticed in your room. Let the majority of listeners take a spin with and without these “enhancements” and see how many can tell the difference. Isn’t the point of all this to enjoy the music instead of fiddling with countless devices to effect the smallest change in playback, a change which the great majority would not even hear or be sensitive to? If you’re one of those with superior auditory abilities, if you feel they enhance your appreciation of the music, great! My original point was for ME, it’s a step too far.
@@ericlubow4354 I must point out that, though you have not heard what this device can accomplish when applied in an extremely resolving and revealing system, you nevertheless seem comfortable making unsupportable pronouncements as fact. One indisputable fact about debating…if you have no firsthand experience with the matters under discussion, you have no valid opinion. You are welcome to speculate, but that has no bearing on factual matters. Making such pronouncements without experience is foolish. You correctly state that owning and using it is a matter of choice and that for you - it is not worth it. No one would debate that, and I clearly state in this episode that there would be no particular reason to even think about using this tool in the average audio system. But that is not what I’m discussing here. My forum has primarily been the discussions of world-class, hyper-audio products, those that offer extremely sophisticated and nuanced levels of performance. I also suspect you have little to no experience with that stratum of gear as well. Yet, without ever having heard it demonstrated in a highly accomplished, world-class system such as the one I’m using, you say things like, “I can’t help feel that a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference.” Yet everyone who has heard it demonstrated here - or in other systems featuring similarly resolving and revealing gear - has not only heard the transformation but also has been as surprised as the rest of us were at just how significant a difference it makes. You say, “I would also note that you said you hadn’t yet received the device. So how would you know how much better playback would be?” I have no idea where you got that impression. Further, how could I have taken the photos and made the “How To” video if I didn’t have one? This suggests that you may have chosen to ignore or missed other relevant points presented here as well. Lastly, I have no issues with your very valid statement that, “…for ME, it’s a step too far.” What I must take issue with is that, without having heard its contributions to a system of such quality, you somehow feel entitled to proclaim as fact that, “…a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference…” and that, “…even if they could, would the small improvement be worth it?” Again, as I said originally, this device is NOT for everyone or every system. But at the level of playback under consideration here, it is neither subtle in its contributions to the resultant musical results nor something an informed listener would choose to forgo once they had experienced the transformative nature it affords.
You probably won’t agree with the thought that people hear what they want to hear and that expectation bias is a real thing. I’ve been to many audio shows where the highly touted, uber-expensive system sounds rather anemic whereas more accessibly priced components actually sound better. Not everyone wants or needs a highly resolving system. We all hear differently. We all have different preferences. I might not like your system at all and you may think mine is total dreck! My comments are not meant to demean your “highly accomplished world class system.” I’m sure you’ve worked hard to build it and it sounds like you’re very happy with it. As to your comment about the difference in playback being not subtle, how many times have I heard that phrase? And how many times has the difference, in fact, been quite subtle? How many Fremer videos have I watched him compare very expensive cartridges with inexpensive ones and ask the viewers which one they were listening to. Almost uniformly, most could not identify which was which. Ok, listening on UA-cam is not the best venue, but if the differences were not SUBTLE as he claimed, one would think the more expensive one would be easily identifiable. But that wasn’t the case in any of the comparison videos he did. And I think you’d agree, he has “highly resolving system.” When you take issue with the fact that I haven’t heard the contribution of this device in a highly resolving system, and as such am not entitled to give an opinion, perhaps that’s true. Perhaps, after all the years of listening to failed promises, I’m jaded! Even without hearing it, I will say I think it’s impractical. Is one supposed to use this on every lp or just the occasional one where something sounds slightly off? I have 4000 lps and would need institutional care were I to ad this to my already crowded system. Lastly, I will ad that the vast majority of my records sound fine. I may not be enthralled with the music but I rarely play a record that sounds off. Maybe it’s my ears. Maybe I don’t have the ability at this age to hear differences. For that matter, why would I want to search for imperfections when I’m happy with what I have? But your point seems to be “ you don’t know what you’re missing because you don’t have a highly resolving system.” Ok, I agree. But nothing is perfect, even the best vinyl playback that exists. I’m fine living with that imperfection.
When the improvements are so easy to hear using earphones over UA-cam I can only imagine how profound it is in your system. Awesome demo, thanks! Now if only they could figure out how to correct the hole so you only have to do it once!
I have the same unit from DS Audio and agree that it is truly remarkable how much more relaxed and open the music sounds following eccentricity correction. However, I submit that the main reason for the sonic benefit isn’t pitch stability but, rather, ensuring the cartridge’s damper remains symmetrically compressed during playback. The advantages of measuring and controlling for horizontal torque forces has been known by anyone who uses a WallySkater properly. This DS Audio tool makes sure eccentricity doesn’t cause a constantly reversing horizontal torque (exacerbated by the 6:1 lever arm of the cantilever against the coil former).
You referred to this dynamic force in your review when you correctly mentioned the horizontal reversal occurring twice per revolution. This situation would be worse on 45rpm due to higher horizontal velocities.
THANK YOU, Greg, for this review!
Thanks for this, J. R. I may not have been as clear as I could have been in defining exactly what was happening. I simply wanted to find a way to explain that there were constantly changing horizontal dynamic forces causing undue stresses on the cantilever assembly that negatively impacted its ability to recreate the music in the groove accurately.
What a beautiful dog! Great video/technology....
Thank you! I'll let Miss Stella know she has yet another fan!
Excellent review …
Interesting Greg, amazing device.
With this being such an expensive accessory. Would this be a good upgrade for a LP playback system in the $15000 range, or would it be better to upgrade the turntable? It is a cool piece of tech. I remember the Nakamichi turntable that did this as well.
It is the rare audiophile I speak with who remembers the nearly $1,800 Nakamichi Dragon-CT Computing Turntable that was introduced in the early '80s!
As to your question, since I have no clue as to what your gear is now, what your biases and tastes are, or how much of an improvement you feel moving up might bring, I will only offer this. The DS Audio ES-001 contributes a CLEARLY AUDIBLE improvement with EVERY turntable system I've used it with - even my very modest "Second Space" vintage 'table and cart. www.theaudioanalyst.com/second_space/
I remember reading a review of the Nakamichi Dragon-CT in (Audio Magazine I think) . I know I still have that issue some in my basement.
It’s good to know that it’s effective on more moderately priced turntables as well. Did you find the ES-001 to be effective on every record or just certain one?
I have a VPI Classic with a DS Audio 003 system. I have been thinking about trying to max out the performance of the table I have. I am thinking about getting the DS Audio ION-001 ionizer. I hope see demonstrations of both the ES-001 and the ION-001 at the Capital Audio Fest next moth.
@@rewingtaylor I'll be using my ES-001 during my after-hours LP session in the Potomac Room Saturday night. Maybe you'll find time to attend? 🙂
I will definitely make an effort to get there Saturday night. What time are you starting?
@@rewingtaylorShould be set for 8:00 PM. Say hello if you make it!
I have to be honest I thought this product was a bit gimmicky but having just watched your video yeah there is a huge difference, the timbre of the cymbals is cleaner with more depth as with the drums, more control 😁 I can't wait for the grand master video as I bet just like the stabiliser it won't leave your home 😁
Thanks for checking this out and writing!
To me personally it's the need for tight mechanical tolerances throughout the entire record/turntable/tone arm/cartridge combined that leads to the analogue sexiness, perhaps eventually digital replay will likely have the same fanatical Audiophile analysts ..
Stella kisses and exotic hifi, winning combo. 👍🏻
@marcus1970 I've been told that the Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC and MPS-X streamer deliver on that hope.
@@Metranger-xd4bt certainly easy on the eye...
I haven't heard anything from them.
@@marcus1970 check out OCD HiFi Guy's videos on the Playback Designs. Mike won't do vinyl cause the PD is so good.
This is vinyl playback at it’s most anal. Lately almost every new product that comes along is said to
significantly improve the sound of our lps. So many new devices. Such little time. What happened to the days when you just put a record on the spindle, sat back and enjoyed it? In the 50s, my dad had a stereo console in the basement, nothing fancy. Yet, when he sat down to play records, he seemed truly content. And who can blame him? How does one judge pleasure? Would he have been happier having a $6000 device to correct eccentricity? I doubt it.
Certainly everyone must decide for themselves how far they want to go, how much they want to spend to enhance vinyl playback. For me, this is a step WAY TOO FAR!
Look, you clearly don't get it...and that is perfectly fine, as I suggest in the episode. It is NOT for everyone... But if you have little or no experience at this level of playback, and you have never heard the contributions it makes at that level of accomplished sonic performance, don't worry about it. But also, if you're not familiar with what it is capable of, while you may clearly feel free to neither care nor appreciate it, you've also no valid point of view from which to criticize....so don't! EVERYONE should be happy with the sound they are getting from their current system, and no one, especially me, is suggesting anything otherwise... So long as you are moved by, and engaged with, your music, there is no need to worry about anything further. Thanks for watching... 🙂
You say I “clearly don’t get it.” I’m not sure what it is you think I don’t get. I said everyone must decide for themselves how much they want to spend to enhance vinyl playback. Each to his own. That was also essentially your point.
I don’t doubt that this device can make a small difference. But is it worth it. I can’t help feel that a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference. And even if they could, would the small improvement be worth it? My opinion is no. Audiophiles notoriously overrate their listening abilities. Have you read the blind study where professional violinists couldn’t tell the difference between a modern violin and a Stradivarius? Some couldn’t even tell whether the violin they were playing was their own.
I watched Fremer’s video using this device and couldn’t tell the difference between the music he played before and after the eccentricity was fixed. If there was a difference, it was tiny, certainly not worth using a $6000 device on every record to determine eccentricity.
How did listeners manage all these many years to enjoy vinyl lps? I’ve read thousands of reviews through the years and rarely a comment about lack of centricity contributing to inferior sound.
For me, this is a solution looking for a problem. Yes, records have been pressed off center but how many of us have such superior listening abilities that we can detect it, so much so that it ruins our listening experience. For those who can, great! Rush out immediately and buy the device.
I would also note that you said you hadn’t yet received the device. So how would you know how much better playback would be?
We’ve all seen outrageously expensive devices for better playback. Record weights that costs thousands of dollars, Shakti Hallowgraphs which I noticed in your room. Let the majority of listeners take a spin with and without these “enhancements” and see how many can tell the difference.
Isn’t the point of all this to enjoy the music instead of fiddling with countless devices to effect the smallest change in playback, a change which the great majority would not even hear or be sensitive to? If you’re one of those with superior auditory abilities, if you feel they enhance your appreciation of the music, great! My original point was for ME, it’s a step too far.
Sorry, that’s Hallographs.
@@ericlubow4354 I must point out that, though you have not heard what this device can accomplish when applied in an extremely resolving and revealing system, you nevertheless seem comfortable making unsupportable pronouncements as fact. One indisputable fact about debating…if you have no firsthand experience with the matters under discussion, you have no valid opinion. You are welcome to speculate, but that has no bearing on factual matters. Making such pronouncements without experience is foolish.
You correctly state that owning and using it is a matter of choice and that for you - it is not worth it. No one would debate that, and I clearly state in this episode that there would be no particular reason to even think about using this tool in the average audio system.
But that is not what I’m discussing here. My forum has primarily been the discussions of world-class, hyper-audio products, those that offer extremely sophisticated and nuanced levels of performance. I also suspect you have little to no experience with that stratum of gear as well.
Yet, without ever having heard it demonstrated in a highly accomplished, world-class system such as the one I’m using, you say things like, “I can’t help feel that a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference.” Yet everyone who has heard it demonstrated here - or in other systems featuring similarly resolving and revealing gear - has not only heard the transformation but also has been as surprised as the rest of us were at just how significant a difference it makes.
You say, “I would also note that you said you hadn’t yet received the device. So how would you know how much better playback would be?” I have no idea where you got that impression. Further, how could I have taken the photos and made the “How To” video if I didn’t have one? This suggests that you may have chosen to ignore or missed other relevant points presented here as well.
Lastly, I have no issues with your very valid statement that, “…for ME, it’s a step too far.” What I must take issue with is that, without having heard its contributions to a system of such quality, you somehow feel entitled to proclaim as fact that, “…a majority of listeners would not be able to tell the difference…” and that, “…even if they could, would the small improvement be worth it?”
Again, as I said originally, this device is NOT for everyone or every system. But at the level of playback under consideration here, it is neither subtle in its contributions to the resultant musical results nor something an informed listener would choose to forgo once they had experienced the transformative nature it affords.
You probably won’t agree with the thought that people hear what they want to hear and that expectation bias is a real thing. I’ve been to many audio shows where the highly touted, uber-expensive system sounds rather anemic whereas more accessibly priced components actually sound better. Not everyone wants or needs a highly resolving system. We all hear differently. We all have different preferences. I might not like your system at all and you may think mine is total dreck! My comments are not meant to demean your “highly accomplished world class system.” I’m sure you’ve worked hard to build it and it sounds like you’re very happy with it.
As to your comment about the difference in playback being not subtle, how many times have I heard that phrase? And how many times has the difference, in fact, been quite subtle? How many Fremer videos have I watched him compare very expensive cartridges with inexpensive ones and ask the viewers which one they were listening to. Almost uniformly, most could not identify which was which. Ok, listening on UA-cam is not the best venue, but if the differences were not SUBTLE as he claimed, one would think the more expensive one would be easily identifiable. But that wasn’t the case in any of the comparison videos he did. And I think you’d agree, he has “highly resolving system.”
When you take issue with the fact that I haven’t heard the contribution of this device in a highly resolving system, and as such am not entitled to give an opinion, perhaps that’s true. Perhaps, after all the years of listening to failed promises, I’m jaded! Even without hearing it, I will say I think it’s impractical. Is one supposed to use this on every lp or just the occasional one where something sounds slightly off? I have 4000 lps and would need institutional care were I to ad this to my already crowded system.
Lastly, I will ad that the vast majority of my records sound fine. I may not be enthralled with the music but I rarely play a record that sounds off. Maybe it’s my ears. Maybe I don’t have the ability at this age to hear differences. For that matter, why would I want to search for imperfections when I’m happy with what I have? But your point seems to be “ you don’t know what you’re missing because you don’t have a highly resolving system.” Ok, I agree. But nothing is perfect, even the best vinyl playback that exists. I’m fine living with that imperfection.