I think it makes a difference in rough grass, wet conditions, out of sand, etc. I played yesterday and it seemed like my new 45* pitching wedge was performing better than my older 52* wedge. That is the reason I’m watching this video. I basically was a blind test subject, because I didn’t have any proconcieved ideas about wedges getting “tired”. I was actually searching for forged clubs vs cast clubs, because my pw is cast and my 52 is forged.
Yeah, those things reduce spin so if you're already on the low side because of an old wedge you'll notice it more. Forged v cast might make a good video actually... 😀
What effect would a dremmel with a very fine bit have on the old grooves? If it’s just the grooves that need sharpening, new wedges seems an expensive alternative. Hairdressers don’t throw their scissors away when they get blunt: they have them sharpened.
You can buy specialist groove sharpeners, but I guess they do pretty much the same thing. A few people have suggested this and my only worry is that you can (inadvertently) make your clubs illegal while trying to sharpen the grooves. Let's face it, you're highly unlikely to ever be pulled up for it, but it would make me uncomfortable!
So where does ignoring rules and regulations stop? Could just walk up and drop the ball in the hole . . . only matters in an event, right? I know that's an exaggeration, but it shows the point. There are rules to the game and regulations on what is acceptable equipment to use to play the game. Knowing that using a groove sharpener may create a nonconforming club. Comparing that to how much cash you want to spend on some new clubs is the big question then. I've used a groove sharpener simply because I didn't have the cash for new wedges. It also felt a bit like I was cheating. I've now bought a new set of wedges and can see a difference in spin and performance over the "groove tool" overhauled wedges. Be ready to adjust your distances. Instead of rolling out, you may be checking up and rolling back!
@@edisterhaupt there are shops that can sharpen your grooves without making them non conforming. They can even redo the face milling giving them like new performance. New wedges are nice, but can get expensive if you replace them frequently.
You’ve got to remember though regardless of what the manufacturers say, they don’t want people going 10 years or more without buying new clubs. Companies are automatically going to be biased on what information you get.
Haha i still use my cleveland cg1's 8 handicap always wondered if new clubs would make a difference but i dont want to pay the money to find out no matter how many people take the piss out of my blades 😂
Been in the golf industry for years as a master fitter etc...clean your grooves and use a groove sharpener. Who doesn’t love new equipment BUT there is more life in what you currently have than the industry is willing to tell you. Great vlog.
I've Tue Thank you. I did look into groove sharpening but was worried about inadvertently making my clubs illegal. I keep my clubs clean enough to eat your dinner off!
I’ve been playing the same wedge for 4 years and it has always served me right until i made the decision yesterday to buy a new one and it is a noticeable difference from new to used, but not large enough that I’d say to switch your wedge every year. Good video though, i enjoyed watching it
Mine were at least three years old and had seen a lot of use. I very much doubt I'll be switching them every year! Thanks for watching; glad you enjoyed it.
I've been gaming the same wedges since 2007 they are stainless steel John Daly spin wedges. They are crazy durable and when I clean them they still look newer. Idk how they were made and there is no info on the internet about them but I've never found any that worked quite as well as them
Also I don't play shitty clubs typically I game the Cobra king LTD driver and the new cobra single length irons. For whatever reason those wedges always find thier way back into my bag even after getting nice vokeys, Mack daddys, etc
all well and good, but so much of the launch and spin depends on the golf ball. what do you play with? have you changed over the years? and would you consider doing a ball- fitting video? I'd love to do a ball fitting but can't seem to find anywhere that will do one without a bias of brands, and with a trackman
Last season I started off using Pro V1 and then switched to Nike RZN Platinum (did a vid on why). I'd use any premium ball with a urethane cover, but would always stick to the same one, not switching constantly. I did a ball fitting once but it was with Bridgestone so not manufacturer neutral.
Just after writing this i watched that Nike ball vid, which was good thanks. I use Titleist prov1X and have for a while. I get AAA grade rated 2nd hand balls, which have either one tiny little blemish or a corporate logo. They've usually only been hit once, and they're less than half rrp.
Good article, I just bought RTX 3 in 50 & 56 from my pro after a fitting session with the Cleveland App, they feel totally different to my Callaway forged (5 years old) but so far so good. Nice swing, you must be the best 7 handicapper in Europe?
I settled on Ping Glide 2's 50SS & 56ES. So far they are feeling good on the range, had them fitted. I tried so many wedges but these felt about the best. My coach is now working on half back swing. very interesting what you said on the high ball flight of a worn out wedge, I'm circulating your video amongst a few mates!
I've been considering a new set of wedges lately so this was very interesting to watch. I know that wedges are softer than normal irons and will therefore wear out more quickly but the information about roll-out was very relevant to my deciding to renew. Have you considered a test where an older wedge is regrooved with a hand tool and tested for roll-out, vis a vis a new wedge?
I did look into groove sharpeners at the time but read that it's easy to inadvertently make your club illegal for competition play when sharpening them. It's not something you're likely to ever get pulled up on, but I wouldn't want it in the back of my mind, you know?
It was just a thought as it would fill a gap in the argument over whether to buy new or to tart-up the old wedges. As I understand it, some of the regroovers are recognised to be compliant with the R&A and USGA so I think that would be unlikely and if it ever did occur then using a legitimate and complaint tool would surely be considered fair and proper in the circumstances. Thanks for the reply and very good video btw.
Algernon Wolfwhistle That's Interesting, I'll do some more research when the time comes. Would certainly be preferable to regularly forking out for new wedges! My understanding was that it's your responsibility to ensure your clubs are conforming, and I couldn't see how you could do that with a groove sharpener. Thanks for watching 👍
It does, just bought one, sharpened my 54 degree on the 6th hole, I could immediately tell the difference. I bought a new one 54 deg too I'm testing tomorrow, annoyed with my buddy and his new wedges always sticking quicker than mine b/c they're brand new.
Could you test your old wedge again after getting the grooves sharpened? I just sharpened every one of my irons and wedges 15 minutes ago and interested in seeing the results. My 54 deg vokey was starting to roll out a lot so I bought a sharpener and a new vokey. As soon as I sharpened it it checked up more immediately the next hole. Hopefully the new one will do even more.
i read that speath gets a new lob every month, sandwedge every 2mos, and a new gap every 3mos. and that is about std procedure with tour players. i just replaced my old clevelands with new ones. amazing difference. back in the day......we used to be able to get them refurbished. re grooved and sandblast the face. just like new! now, it's just as cost effective to replace the set
Yeah, if cost was no issue, I'd replace mine every couple of months, no question. You can buy groove sharpeners but there's a good chance you'd inadvertently end up making your wedges illegal.
I love the wedges I've got now, despite all the troubles. Have only ever had Cleveland so couldn't say one's better than the other. If I were you I'd try Vokey, Cleveland and maybe Callaway and see what you like best.
✌🏻 is that the new sign off 😂 interesting video and I think I need to get myself some wedges. Only have the standard PW and SW..... what are you doing with the old ones???? 😉
Just be grateful there was no singing in this video! You mean the PW and SW of your iron set? I think proper wedges are a lot better, so much more versatile and just easier to use. Selling them!
I have noticed a big diffence in turf interaction with the V sole of the RTX3 versus my older RTX 2.0. It took me a while to get it right for diffent ground/bunker conditions. How about you?
Sergio Martin The difference in spin is huge for me. I sometimes feel I've got too much bounce for tight lies or bunkers with hard sand, but generally do okay.
I tried the RTX3 and bought them immediately after feeling that turf interaction. Nowadays, all the manufacturers have done the same thing, with the dulled leading edge and all. I'm guessing, but haven't tested this, that all the wedges that have used the same grinds as cleveland will feel basically the same.
Grooves don’t influence spin in the sand for an explosion shot. Take your old wedges to the practice bunker and keep the grooves on your new wedges lasting long.
I’m fairly new to golf and the yardage’s of each club. Would carrying an index card attached to my golf back in like a water proof clip showing each clubs yardage for ex: 5i-160yds 6i-150yds All the way to my wedges be beneficial to my game?
100% that's worth doing. Some pros even write the yardage on the back of the clubhead itself. After a while you'll find you remember them anyway and won't need to check your yardage chart.
Honestly, a new wedge can only be better than the old one if you have played a round with it to understand how it performs. For that case, many golfers might not find any substantial difference if the bounce on the wedges were not correct for the course. Data from launch monitors is quite useless. There is also a separate argument that grooves contribute nothing to spin numbers. My worn out maxfli sand wedge still spins great. However, I do agree that older wedges get the ball up higher and this is a greater way to stop balls on a green. Its all about trajectory. I would never recommend anyone to change to newer wedges if they wanted to have better spin and trajectory control. Sweet spot contact and correct use of bounce is always the most important part of wedge play and even more so for amateurs.
Interesting topic. I´m wondering, "back in the day", before specialist wedges became a thing and everyone just had PW and SW, did they still change those as often? (I´m pretty sure Seve didn´t have specialist wedges and he was the master of the short game) I have Vokey wedges (SM5 & SM6) in 52, 56, and 60 degree (which are a couple of seasons old) but I hardly ever used them as I find my 20 odd year old Maxfli Revolution PW & SW to be much more reliable, with very little roll out (I have no way of measuring spin numbers) The 56 Vokey wedge is the only one I use regularly, but that often depends on the lie of the ball. The Vokeys work better from a softer, fluffy lie because it has more bounce, whereas the older wedges work better from tighter lies. Also, descend angle (higher launch = steeper descent angle) and the receptiveness of the greens, which also vary depending weather conditions, also greatly affects roll out. Maybe it´s just my inconsistent strike, but whatever gets me nearer the flag is the club I´m gonna use, no matter how old it is :) PS; this video led me to your "when should you change your irons/fitting" video, which then led to Mark Crossfields Q&A live video on the same subject, which is very informative and well worth a watch before decisions are made!
I'm not 100% sure but I think the wedges that come as part of your iron set are harder and less susceptible to wear. People seem to be able to use a set of irons for years without any drop in performance. The club that gets you near the flag is always a good one!
I think generally speaking, you´re probably right. However, the Maxfli irons I have are very soft in feel ( I think they´re a copper alloy with nickel plating) and as a result give very high spin (sometimes too high, esp in the longer irons, which means I get higher ball flight in the 5 iron which comes up about half a club short of my previous AP-2s) whereas the new (ish) Vokeys feel much harder. Crossfield mentions in his video about trying to wear out wedges to the point where the grooves were flattened out into a diamond.. I´ve never played that much or for that long. He also said change your clubs when you can afford to or when you want to feel something different. I know the spin numbers are better with new clubs but I do think alot of it is marketing too, in that because the pros change their clubs all the time, there´s marketing pressure for us amateur hackers to do the same, when it probably isn´t always necessary :)
@@alanwaterworth6464 I agree with that. If you gave me the choice between being a bit better at golf or just having newer clubs, I'd choose the former every time!
I know your not keen on the Idea of sharpening your groves but what would be interesting to see now is if you did sharpen your old ones how much back in line with your new clubs they would come.
I struggle when 10-20 feet of green to land it near the pin. Do you have any practice drills or tips for set up and swing? I.e. Ball closer to back foot and full or half swing.
My advice would be, generally, don't try to land it near the pin. If you land it near the pin you've got to stop it dead, which is hard. Try to get it rolling towards the hole as soon as possible.
Two schools of thought: 1. Using a high lofted wedge, fly the ball closer to the hole and hope it stops. Practice will help. 2. Select a club that will land the ball within 3-4 feet of the edge of the green and run the rest of the way to the hole. Dave Pelz got Phil to do this years ago. The longer the ball rolls on the ground the more accurate will be. It only takes a few minutes of chipping to different length holes to figure out what club you need when.
Ouch - so if I practice at the range once a week (or more) and my focus is short/wedge game. . . . . . . How often should a club golfer be swapping their wedges?
Great vid, I've just bought a really old 56 wedge off eBay. I want to see distance before I invest £Xxx on a new wedge but I'm definately going to start saving up 😃
125 round of golf!! Well.I am a 5 handicap player and I do play 140 round's of golf a year,and I do practice my wedge only chip shots and hit 190 balls every day.So how long do you reckon these wedges will last for me? 6 Months If..What a ripoff by Titleist.
I remember that an English uni; maybe Scottish; got Dunlop to make wedges with grooves and no grooves and measured the spin with high speed cameras in the 1960's. The grooves made no difference to the spin. While I am here that same uni, got a club to increase the hole size to 6" for a period. The members scores improved for several months until they became accustomed to the hole and then they slipped back to their old scores.
That's crazy about the hole size! There was a small experiment a couple of years ago with 15' cups (as a way to make the game faster/easier/more enjoyable) and scores were much better! It didn't last long enough for them to get used to it but I'm sure they'd still be holing a lot of putts with holes that size!
Made this realization myself recently. When I heard Jordan Spieth was replacing his wedges every couple months the lightbulb kinda went off for me. Here's a guy who lives and dies by his wedge play... if old grooves were as good as new there's no way he'd switch that much. I mean you get used to a club you want to stick with it. The spin is so helpful on approach and bunker play on any sort of firm or elevated greens. Edit: Ha I'm just seeing the comment below mine about Spieth.
Guess My 1979 Mizuno MS-2 sand wedge might be knackered then .. although i do change the grip on a regular basis and regroove but still the same head and shaft ... :)
A lot of people have said that sharpening the grooves can do the trick. I had read that but was a bit worried about doing it. If it's still doing the business for you though then why change?
Scratch Golf never found a club that feels the same. I think sandwedge is similar to a putter . It's all about feel .... I've used from from 28handicap to now 4 ... I've only just found your videos .have to say I like them .. to many videos have an underhanded way of promoting clubs which I hate....
Thanks, glad you like the vids. I've got no interest in people buying clubs they don't need! If they're going to improve performance and help you enjoy the game more, then great, but if not I'd rather people spent the money on lessons/green fees at courses they fancy/literally anything else!
What happens to old golf clubs? Do they get trashed? Recycled? Just wondering what Cleveland did with all those wedges they received from the trade in campaign?? Cheers bay!
Scratch Golf it's such a shame that you have to get rid of a perfectly good club except that the grooves have been worn away. The TM wedge where you could change the grooves when worn out made much more sense. Cheaper less waist etc Whatever happened to that club?
Scratch Golf Taylormade XFT wedges. You could take out the worn grooves and replace it with a new piece of forged steel with new grooves. It just bolted on at the back. Look it up on internet, see the pics. Cheers
You give them to your friends who are a year behind in experience and haven't started buying new clubs yet. That's where I got my first vokeys from and just bought two new ones. Likely keep them as backups or give them to a friend.
There are several available on Amazon in the $10-15 range, As long as you don't deepen or widen the grooves beyond the original, you should be OK. Just open them back up.
Eduard Walhout No. The size of the groove is already produced at that limit. Any sharpening would inherently involve removing surface metal. That would then make a slightly larger groove, this making it illegal.
Damn - I often jest when I practice that I'm "off to wear out my wedges". A month ago I bought 3 new SM-7 wedges (52, 56 and 60) and have hit many hundreds of balls with each of them. This is going to prove very costly. Hopefully hitting only Pro V1 as I am will reduce that wear somewhat (try to avoid range balls). Cheers from Sydney, Oz and thanks for an excellent vid - Dave
Best thing I've heard to reduce the wear is cleaning them between each shot (or at least every few). It's hitting balls when you've got grass/dirt/sand in the grooves that does the most damage, apparently.
Excellent tip and thank you. I do clean them regularly and try not to hit them with too much grass/dirt/sand in the grooves. I will ramp up my efforts - spending $750/month on replacement wedges is not a happy option for me! :-)
Difference between brand new grooves and old grooves is so minute, I doubt 99.9% of weekend golfer would be able to tell the difference blind folded. I’m a 10 handicap and use the same wedges for 5+ years and it’s not worth replacing. Now if u have $ to burn, why not, but a 10 year old wedge will serve everyone well who’s not playing professionally for millions of dollars
I think the forged wear out faster than the cast wedges I bought the Callaway Mack daddy PM grind 60 degree best that I have ever had so I also got the 64 degree just yesterday.
Only a good quality fitting can tell you that really. It's common to have lowish bounce on a lob wedge because when you open the face you effectively increase the bounce, and people sometimes want to play flop shots etc with their most lofted club.
The pros replace there wedges because 1 they are free, 2 they are playing much much more challenging courses and greens, 3 they are good enough to take advantage of small advantages. We do not get free clubs, play super challenging tour prepped courses, nor are 99% of good enough to take advantage of small differences.
I'd certainly change my wedges a lot more if they were free! 😂 I did notice a big difference when I replaced mine but haven't done it again since, purely down to cost.
It's all marketing. My wedges are almost 20 year old Clevelands and I still spin the shit out of the ball. They are still consistent and reliable. At one point I was +2 handicap, I have hit almost everything out there over the past 20 years and I still play the same i3 pings with Cleveland wedges because they work the best for me.
Interesting. I was honestly shocked when I got new wedges how much more they were spinning but I guess it depends on the courses you play etc. I do believe that new technology doesn't really help that much. I'm sure I could do alright with the Eye 2s I've got in the shed!
An alternative is to have them regrooved. Mine have been restored to new condition with a regrooving and sandblasting from an ex Cleveland European tour club fitter. Very inexpensive and much more sensible
Thank you for the unbiased review. I was thinking about buying new wedges. But it seems like I only need to get a new 50° because my 60 is very worn out. Thank you
Scratch Golf yeah! Love when someone is just honest! I have a huge gap between my pitching wedge 138 yards... and by 50...118.. what do you think I should get?
Lol, I have a maxfli Australian blade sand wedge from the 70's. The grooves are practically non existent it has hit more stones than a rock breaker, the shaft is missing a lot of chrome & still has the original grip. The leading edge is razor sharp apart from the dents,,,,,but I've yet to find a more feel sensitive, workable wedge to replace it with and probably won't. It's great for chipping off very tight lies and out of clumpy grass and has a nice predictive run out. Who needs a new wedge!!
Scratch Golf, pause at 2:06 and 2:10. The grooves look like they could use a cleaning. Of course new clubs will always be better but unlike pros that get new wedges every few months, it can get pricey for the typical hack.
Great video. Real world problems for the average joe. I think some of the famous you tube golfers should think about what we would find more informative and of greater benefit and not just testing clubs at near tour swing speeds that most of us can only dream of offering no benefits to us mortals.
chuck in the new bling factor and you in #WinnerWinnerChickenDinner territory 👍 Nike shoes any good? just done a review on my year old puma titan tour ignites and there wrecked. so shopping time. toying Nike or under armour Speith. #ToughLife
These are really comfortable and light, so ideal for summer, but the heels have worn already which is not good news. Let me know what you go for and what you think!
In golf, you live an die by your short game. At least twice a week, I play in a league with some serious cash on the line and if you are gonna put your money where your money where your mouth is like I do, you better have good performing equipment. Wedges with even a little wear on the face WILL result in longer putts the majority of the time , that's all there is to it. With cash on the line, I'll take a 10 ft putt over a 20 ft putt all day long. All of the rest of you non-believers and hackers, keep hacking. Me, Im having fresh wedges twice a year and my golfing 'buddies' are "buying" em for me!
I sure do. I think you can get better without lessons but it probably takes a lot longer; having an experienced coach help you should speed up the process. Do you have lessons yourself?
Thanks for the information. My wedges are >15 years old. I was already thinking of replacing them this year, and am now more convinced I should.
I think you'll see a huge difference. Let me know!
I think it makes a difference in rough grass, wet conditions, out of sand, etc. I played yesterday and it seemed like my new 45* pitching wedge was performing better than my older 52* wedge. That is the reason I’m watching this video. I basically was a blind test subject, because I didn’t have any proconcieved ideas about wedges getting “tired”. I was actually searching for forged clubs vs cast clubs, because my pw is cast and my 52 is forged.
Yeah, those things reduce spin so if you're already on the low side because of an old wedge you'll notice it more. Forged v cast might make a good video actually... 😀
What effect would a dremmel with a very fine bit have on the old grooves? If it’s just the grooves that need sharpening, new wedges seems an expensive alternative. Hairdressers don’t throw their scissors away when they get blunt: they have them sharpened.
You can buy specialist groove sharpeners, but I guess they do pretty much the same thing. A few people have suggested this and my only worry is that you can (inadvertently) make your clubs illegal while trying to sharpen the grooves. Let's face it, you're highly unlikely to ever be pulled up for it, but it would make me uncomfortable!
Only matters if you play in USGA or R&A sanctioned amateur or professional events.
So where does ignoring rules and regulations stop? Could just walk up and drop the ball in the hole . . . only matters in an event, right? I know that's an exaggeration, but it shows the point. There are rules to the game and regulations on what is acceptable equipment to use to play the game. Knowing that using a groove sharpener may create a nonconforming club. Comparing that to how much cash you want to spend on some new clubs is the big question then. I've used a groove sharpener simply because I didn't have the cash for new wedges. It also felt a bit like I was cheating. I've now bought a new set of wedges and can see a difference in spin and performance over the "groove tool" overhauled wedges. Be ready to adjust your distances. Instead of rolling out, you may be checking up and rolling back!
@@edisterhaupt there are shops that can sharpen your grooves without making them non conforming. They can even redo the face milling giving them like new performance. New wedges are nice, but can get expensive if you replace them frequently.
This is very reassuring, especially playing the exact RTX's you had and considering getting the new 3's
They are great wedges.
You are one of my go to guys for info.
You’ve got to remember though regardless of what the manufacturers say, they don’t want people going 10 years or more without buying new clubs. Companies are automatically going to be biased on what information you get.
Michipreneur 1 Exactly my point! 👍
Haha i still use my cleveland cg1's 8 handicap always wondered if new clubs would make a difference but i dont want to pay the money to find out no matter how many people take the piss out of my blades 😂
Would you recommend replacing all wedges at the same time? I use my SW a lot more than my gap and pitching. Thank you, great video
Hmm, good question. I guess you wouldn't need to, as long as you didn't then have ones that didn't match up well with each other.
Been in the golf industry for years as a master fitter etc...clean your grooves and use a groove sharpener. Who doesn’t love new equipment BUT there is more life in what you currently have than the industry is willing to tell you. Great vlog.
I've Tue Thank you. I did look into groove sharpening but was worried about inadvertently making my clubs illegal. I keep my clubs clean enough to eat your dinner off!
Scratch Golf you’re spot on about the possibility of making them wider as some get pretty heavy-handed with that tool. Keep the vids coming!
I've Tue Will do. Maybe you can make a guest appearance and show me how to sharpen them!
Scratch Golf the honor would be mine.
I've Tue Where are you based?
I’ve been playing the same wedge for 4 years and it has always served me right until i made the decision yesterday to buy a new one and it is a noticeable difference from new to used, but not large enough that I’d say to switch your wedge every year. Good video though, i enjoyed watching it
Mine were at least three years old and had seen a lot of use. I very much doubt I'll be switching them every year! Thanks for watching; glad you enjoyed it.
I've been gaming the same wedges since 2007 they are stainless steel John Daly spin wedges. They are crazy durable and when I clean them they still look newer. Idk how they were made and there is no info on the internet about them but I've never found any that worked quite as well as them
Also I don't play shitty clubs typically I game the Cobra king LTD driver and the new cobra single length irons. For whatever reason those wedges always find thier way back into my bag even after getting nice vokeys, Mack daddys, etc
Mate, it's whatever works. More expensive clubs doesn't mean lower scores. How are you finding the one length, out of interest?
all well and good, but so much of the launch and spin depends on the golf ball. what do you play with? have you changed over the years? and would you consider doing a ball- fitting video? I'd love to do a ball fitting but can't seem to find anywhere that will do one without a bias of brands, and with a trackman
Last season I started off using Pro V1 and then switched to Nike RZN Platinum (did a vid on why). I'd use any premium ball with a urethane cover, but would always stick to the same one, not switching constantly. I did a ball fitting once but it was with Bridgestone so not manufacturer neutral.
Just after writing this i watched that Nike ball vid, which was good thanks. I use Titleist prov1X and have for a while. I get AAA grade rated 2nd hand balls, which have either one tiny little blemish or a corporate logo. They've usually only been hit once, and they're less than half rrp.
Great vlog pal... swings looking so smooth too 🏌️👌👌👍🎥
Cheers mate 🏌🏼 How's your game?
Scratch Golf not get any atm Rob due to family illness.... I'm needed at home when not working basically... it'll happen soon though🏌️🎥
Sorry to hear that mate, hope all good soon 💪
Good article, I just bought RTX 3 in 50 & 56 from my pro after a fitting session with the Cleveland App, they feel totally different to my Callaway forged (5 years old) but so far so good. Nice swing, you must be the best 7 handicapper in Europe?
They are great wedges.
Haha, I'm not sure about that!
Great video, I’ve just invested in new wedges .....so it was good news to hear it should improve my accuracy!
Paul Houghton What did you get? I can't guarantee they'll go straight!
I settled on Ping Glide 2's 50SS & 56ES. So far they are feeling good on the range, had them fitted. I tried so many wedges but these felt about the best. My coach is now working on half back swing. very interesting what you said on the high ball flight of a worn out wedge, I'm circulating your video amongst a few mates!
Per Crossfields video with Vokey....Phil and Tiger get 5-6 lobbers and SW per year....and they practiced a lot in the early 2000s.
Spieth changes every month apparently.
I've been considering a new set of wedges lately so this was very interesting to watch. I know that wedges are softer than normal irons and will therefore wear out more quickly but the information about roll-out was very relevant to my deciding to renew. Have you considered a test where an older wedge is regrooved with a hand tool and tested for roll-out, vis a vis a new wedge?
I did look into groove sharpeners at the time but read that it's easy to inadvertently make your club illegal for competition play when sharpening them. It's not something you're likely to ever get pulled up on, but I wouldn't want it in the back of my mind, you know?
It was just a thought as it would fill a gap in the argument over whether to buy new or to tart-up the old wedges. As I understand it, some of the regroovers are recognised to be compliant with the R&A and USGA so I think that would be unlikely and if it ever did occur then using a legitimate and complaint tool would surely be considered fair and proper in the circumstances. Thanks for the reply and very good video btw.
Algernon Wolfwhistle That's Interesting, I'll do some more research when the time comes. Would certainly be preferable to regularly forking out for new wedges! My understanding was that it's your responsibility to ensure your clubs are conforming, and I couldn't see how you could do that with a groove sharpener. Thanks for watching 👍
What if you use a groove sharpener on the old wedges ?
James Kinnear Problem is it’d be easy to make them illegal doing that. I guess no one would ever know, but still.
James Kinnea
would be interesting to know if a groove cleaner/sharpener would bring back some of the life in the old wedges and if so, how much.
Lots of people have said that. I did research it at the time but you can make your clubs illegal with groove sharpeners which put me off.
It does, just bought one, sharpened my 54 degree on the 6th hole, I could immediately tell the difference. I bought a new one 54 deg too I'm testing tomorrow, annoyed with my buddy and his new wedges always sticking quicker than mine b/c they're brand new.
Could you test your old wedge again after getting the grooves sharpened? I just sharpened every one of my irons and wedges 15 minutes ago and interested in seeing the results. My 54 deg vokey was starting to roll out a lot so I bought a sharpener and a new vokey. As soon as I sharpened it it checked up more immediately the next hole. Hopefully the new one will do even more.
I got rid of the old wedges. I thought about using a sharpener but was worried I make inadvertently make the clubs illegal. What did you use?
i read that speath gets a new lob every month, sandwedge every 2mos, and a new gap every 3mos. and that is about std procedure with tour players. i just replaced my old clevelands with new ones. amazing difference. back in the day......we used to be able to get them refurbished. re grooved and sandblast the face. just like new! now, it's just as cost effective to replace the set
Yeah, if cost was no issue, I'd replace mine every couple of months, no question. You can buy groove sharpeners but there's a good chance you'd inadvertently end up making your wedges illegal.
yeah...i have 2 kinds and your right.
Yeah..If I don't have the pay for it.I'll change them every month..
randy underwood tour players get new wedges for every event. Especially the big ones like spieth, thomas, etc.
Hi Mate - Which launch monitor are you using?
GC2
Well done and helpful my friend, thanks!
Well done mate.
Is it possible to resharpen the groves to get another couple of years out of them?
Ian H Yes, but you can make them illegal in doing so. Not tried it myself.
Looks like I'm off to the shop to get some new wedges now after this
Can't decide on which ones to go for thou, any suggestions
I love the wedges I've got now, despite all the troubles. Have only ever had Cleveland so couldn't say one's better than the other. If I were you I'd try Vokey, Cleveland and maybe Callaway and see what you like best.
✌🏻 is that the new sign off 😂 interesting video and I think I need to get myself some wedges. Only have the standard PW and SW..... what are you doing with the old ones???? 😉
Just be grateful there was no singing in this video! You mean the PW and SW of your iron set? I think proper wedges are a lot better, so much more versatile and just easier to use. Selling them!
I have noticed a big diffence in turf interaction with the V sole of the RTX3 versus my older RTX 2.0. It took me a while to get it right for diffent ground/bunker conditions. How about you?
Sergio Martin The difference in spin is huge for me. I sometimes feel I've got too much bounce for tight lies or bunkers with hard sand, but generally do okay.
I tried the RTX3 and bought them immediately after feeling that turf interaction. Nowadays, all the manufacturers have done the same thing, with the dulled leading edge and all. I'm guessing, but haven't tested this, that all the wedges that have used the same grinds as cleveland will feel basically the same.
Grooves don’t influence spin in the sand for an explosion shot. Take your old wedges to the practice bunker and keep the grooves on your new wedges lasting long.
Interesting. The only problem is that I don’t want to spend 100-150 every so often to buy a new wedge. When I get better maybe I’ll consider it.
Some people have suggested groove sharpeners to freshen up an old wedge but you can make your clubs illegal with those, so be careful!
I’m fairly new to golf and the yardage’s of each club. Would carrying an index card attached to my golf back in like a water proof clip showing each clubs yardage for ex:
5i-160yds
6i-150yds
All the way to my wedges be beneficial to my game?
100% that's worth doing. Some pros even write the yardage on the back of the clubhead itself. After a while you'll find you remember them anyway and won't need to check your yardage chart.
Scratch Golf awesome! Thanks!
Honestly, a new wedge can only be better than the old one if you have played a round with it to understand how it performs. For that case, many golfers might not find any substantial difference if the bounce on the wedges were not correct for the course. Data from launch monitors is quite useless. There is also a separate argument that grooves contribute nothing to spin numbers. My worn out maxfli sand wedge still spins great. However, I do agree that older wedges get the ball up higher and this is a greater way to stop balls on a green. Its all about trajectory. I would never recommend anyone to change to newer wedges if they wanted to have better spin and trajectory control. Sweet spot contact and correct use of bounce is always the most important part of wedge play and even more so for amateurs.
All I know is that my old wedges didn't stop anywhere near as quickly as the new ones, even on pure strikes.
Interesting topic. I´m wondering, "back in the day", before specialist wedges became a thing and everyone just had PW and SW, did they still change those as often? (I´m pretty sure Seve didn´t have specialist wedges and he was the master of the short game) I have Vokey wedges (SM5 & SM6) in 52, 56, and 60 degree (which are a couple of seasons old) but I hardly ever used them as I find my 20 odd year old Maxfli Revolution PW & SW to be much more reliable, with very little roll out (I have no way of measuring spin numbers) The 56 Vokey wedge is the only one I use regularly, but that often depends on the lie of the ball. The Vokeys work better from a softer, fluffy lie because it has more bounce, whereas the older wedges work better from tighter lies. Also, descend angle (higher launch = steeper descent angle) and the receptiveness of the greens, which also vary depending weather conditions, also greatly affects roll out. Maybe it´s just my inconsistent strike, but whatever gets me nearer the flag is the club I´m gonna use, no matter how old it is :)
PS; this video led me to your "when should you change your irons/fitting" video, which then led to Mark Crossfields Q&A live video on the same subject, which is very informative and well worth a watch before decisions are made!
I'm not 100% sure but I think the wedges that come as part of your iron set are harder and less susceptible to wear. People seem to be able to use a set of irons for years without any drop in performance. The club that gets you near the flag is always a good one!
I think generally speaking, you´re probably right. However, the Maxfli irons I have are very soft in feel ( I think they´re a copper alloy with nickel plating) and as a result give very high spin (sometimes too high, esp in the longer irons, which means I get higher ball flight in the 5 iron which comes up about half a club short of my previous AP-2s) whereas the new (ish) Vokeys feel much harder. Crossfield mentions in his video about trying to wear out wedges to the point where the grooves were flattened out into a diamond.. I´ve never played that much or for that long. He also said change your clubs when you can afford to or when you want to feel something different. I know the spin numbers are better with new clubs but I do think alot of it is marketing too, in that because the pros change their clubs all the time, there´s marketing pressure for us amateur hackers to do the same, when it probably isn´t always necessary :)
@@alanwaterworth6464 I agree with that. If you gave me the choice between being a bit better at golf or just having newer clubs, I'd choose the former every time!
I reckon if you´re playing off a single figure handicap, you´re pretty good already :)
I know your not keen on the Idea of sharpening your groves but what would be interesting to see now is if you did sharpen your old ones how much back in line with your new clubs they would come.
dang....I've had my vokey's for 4 years and I bought them used from back in the day...
Be interesting to see if you noticed a difference with new ones!
Same
I struggle when 10-20 feet of green to land it near the pin. Do you have any practice drills or tips for set up and swing? I.e. Ball closer to back foot and full or half swing.
My advice would be, generally, don't try to land it near the pin. If you land it near the pin you've got to stop it dead, which is hard. Try to get it rolling towards the hole as soon as possible.
Two schools of thought: 1. Using a high lofted wedge, fly the ball closer to the hole and hope it stops. Practice will help. 2. Select a club that will land the ball within 3-4 feet of the edge of the green and run the rest of the way to the hole. Dave Pelz got Phil to do this years ago. The longer the ball rolls on the ground the more accurate will be. It only takes a few minutes of chipping to different length holes to figure out what club you need when.
Ouch - so if I practice at the range once a week (or more) and my focus is short/wedge game. . . . . . . How often should a club golfer be swapping their wedges?
Brian Treadwell That was my thought! I reckon you'll know when you need a new one (probably not as soon as Titleist say).
How many equivalent "rounds" do you think your wedge had done?
At least 300, maybe more!
Wow great channel! Subbed! Will go back through your catalogue, cheers.
SJWs Attack! Thanks for watching! 👍
Great vid, I've just bought a really old 56 wedge off eBay. I want to see distance before I invest £Xxx on a new wedge but I'm definately going to start saving up 😃
No more practice with my wedges after watching this!!
Jonathan Johnstone Haha, I had that thought too!
125 round of golf!! Well.I am a 5 handicap player and I do play 140 round's of golf a year,and I do practice my wedge only chip shots and hit 190 balls every day.So how long do you reckon these wedges will last for me? 6 Months If..What a ripoff by Titleist.
I remember that an English uni; maybe Scottish; got Dunlop to make wedges with grooves and no grooves and measured the spin with high speed cameras in the 1960's. The grooves made no difference to the spin. While I am here that same uni, got a club to increase the hole size to 6" for a period. The members scores improved for several months until they became accustomed to the hole and then they slipped back to their old scores.
That's crazy about the hole size! There was a small experiment a couple of years ago with 15' cups (as a way to make the game faster/easier/more enjoyable) and scores were much better! It didn't last long enough for them to get used to it but I'm sure they'd still be holing a lot of putts with holes that size!
We tried the 15" hole at Cairns for a few months on Sundays to get the non golfers a bit interested. It didn't work.
Oh I am pleased for u ..u got em
Yep, been in the bag for quite a while now and going well :)
Made this realization myself recently. When I heard Jordan Spieth was replacing his wedges every couple months the lightbulb kinda went off for me. Here's a guy who lives and dies by his wedge play... if old grooves were as good as new there's no way he'd switch that much. I mean you get used to a club you want to stick with it. The spin is so helpful on approach and bunker play on any sort of firm or elevated greens. Edit: Ha I'm just seeing the comment below mine about Spieth.
Matt K Now we just need to find a way of getting new wedges every month 💸
You should do this for short irons as well.
Guess My 1979 Mizuno MS-2 sand wedge might be knackered then .. although i do change the grip on a regular basis and regroove but still the same head and shaft ... :)
A lot of people have said that sharpening the grooves can do the trick. I had read that but was a bit worried about doing it. If it's still doing the business for you though then why change?
Scratch Golf never found a club that feels the same. I think sandwedge is similar to a putter . It's all about feel .... I've used from from 28handicap to now 4 ... I've only just found your videos .have to say I like them .. to many videos have an underhanded way of promoting clubs which I hate....
Thanks, glad you like the vids. I've got no interest in people buying clubs they don't need! If they're going to improve performance and help you enjoy the game more, then great, but if not I'd rather people spent the money on lessons/green fees at courses they fancy/literally anything else!
What happens to old golf clubs? Do they get trashed? Recycled? Just wondering what Cleveland did with all those wedges they received from the trade in campaign?? Cheers bay!
Alberto Fernandez-Sanguino Good question, no idea!
Scratch Golf it's such a shame that you have to get rid of a perfectly good club except that the grooves have been worn away. The TM wedge where you could change the grooves when worn out made much more sense. Cheaper less waist etc Whatever happened to that club?
Alberto Fernandez-Sanguino Never heard of that one; how did that work?! Manufacturers wouldn't make as much money if people stopped buying new wedges!
Scratch Golf Taylormade XFT wedges. You could take out the worn grooves and replace it with a new piece of forged steel with new grooves. It just bolted on at the back. Look it up on internet, see the pics. Cheers
You give them to your friends who are a year behind in experience and haven't started buying new clubs yet. That's where I got my first vokeys from and just bought two new ones. Likely keep them as backups or give them to a friend.
Great video!
Thanks!
I periodically sharpen the grooves on my wedges and they perform pretty much like new. That's a lot cheaper than new clubs.
Hugh Gwaltney I did look into that but was worried I might inadvertently make them illegal (I'm not the best when it comes to DIY). What do you use?
There are several available on Amazon in the $10-15 range, As long as you don't deepen or widen the grooves beyond the original, you should be OK. Just open them back up.
And your clubs then become illegal. The grooves are already manufactured to the allowable limit.
Thats the idea isnt it, to get them back to the allowable limit after they have worn out.
Eduard Walhout No. The size of the groove is already produced at that limit. Any sharpening would inherently involve removing surface metal. That would then make a slightly larger groove, this making it illegal.
I'd have to buy two new wedges per year according to Titleist. I do buy a new 58 pretty much every year.
Tour players change them once a month. Be nice to be able to do that!
Damn - I often jest when I practice that I'm "off to wear out my wedges". A month ago I bought 3 new SM-7 wedges (52, 56 and 60) and have hit many hundreds of balls with each of them. This is going to prove very costly. Hopefully hitting only Pro V1 as I am will reduce that wear somewhat (try to avoid range balls). Cheers from Sydney, Oz and thanks for an excellent vid - Dave
Best thing I've heard to reduce the wear is cleaning them between each shot (or at least every few). It's hitting balls when you've got grass/dirt/sand in the grooves that does the most damage, apparently.
Excellent tip and thank you. I do clean them regularly and try not to hit them with too much grass/dirt/sand in the grooves. I will ramp up my efforts - spending $750/month on replacement wedges is not a happy option for me! :-)
What remix is the music whilst hitting the wedges? Cheers
Yes. Which remix is it?
The question is did it improve your handicap ?
Yep! (Well, alongside practice etc)
Difference between brand new grooves and old grooves is so minute, I doubt 99.9% of weekend golfer would be able to tell the difference blind folded. I’m a 10 handicap and use the same wedges for 5+ years and it’s not worth replacing. Now if u have $ to burn, why not, but a 10 year old wedge will serve everyone well who’s not playing professionally for millions of dollars
That honestly wasn't my experience. Obviously you can play good golf with worn out wedges, but newer ones will make it a tiny bit easier.
I think the forged wear out faster than the cast wedges I bought the Callaway Mack daddy PM grind 60 degree best that I have ever had so I also got the 64 degree just yesterday.
Nice, the 64 must be flop city!
Scratch Golf Yeah I only tried the 64* at the range, playing tomorrow rained all day today so should hit and stick.
Play well. Don't forget a pitchmark repairer!
Forged wedges do in fact wear out faster.
15yr old vokey 60 degree wedge still works perfect can hit a full range of shots with it and the balls stops when I want it too.
Interesting!
How do I know if my bounce is ideal? My 60 has only 7 degrees
Only a good quality fitting can tell you that really. It's common to have lowish bounce on a lob wedge because when you open the face you effectively increase the bounce, and people sometimes want to play flop shots etc with their most lofted club.
Your new clubs had longer shafts, which would help to increase your spin rate a bit.
That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. I still see big differences even on shorter shots where I've gripped down the shaft though.
keep the old wedges to practice with them, and use the new ones only for play.
Thought about doing that but the old ones have shorter shafts, different lie angles etc so seemed like a bad idea!
The pros replace there wedges because 1 they are free, 2 they are playing much much more challenging courses and greens, 3 they are good enough to take advantage of small advantages.
We do not get free clubs, play super challenging tour prepped courses, nor are 99% of good enough to take advantage of small differences.
I'd certainly change my wedges a lot more if they were free! 😂 I did notice a big difference when I replaced mine but haven't done it again since, purely down to cost.
Knackered? We, in the US, do't use that in conversation much....
WeDontThink Haha, just means worn out
It's all marketing. My wedges are almost 20 year old Clevelands and I still spin the shit out of the ball. They are still consistent and reliable. At one point I was +2 handicap, I have hit almost everything out there over the past 20 years and I still play the same i3 pings with Cleveland wedges because they work the best for me.
Interesting. I was honestly shocked when I got new wedges how much more they were spinning but I guess it depends on the courses you play etc. I do believe that new technology doesn't really help that much. I'm sure I could do alright with the Eye 2s I've got in the shed!
An alternative is to have them regrooved. Mine have been restored to new condition with a regrooving and sandblasting from an ex Cleveland European tour club fitter. Very inexpensive and much more sensible
do you own a gc2 ? you must be like a robot on those 100 yards and in shots if you do
Haha, I wish! They're about £14k! I just borrow one from my pro.
Thank you for the unbiased review. I was thinking about buying new wedges. But it seems like I only need to get a new 50° because my 60 is very worn out. Thank you
sway the hair prince My pleasure, I'm glad you found it useful! Good luck on the wedge hunt, let me know how it goes 👍
Scratch Golf yeah! Love when someone is just honest! I have a huge gap between my pitching wedge 138 yards... and by 50...118.. what do you think I should get?
Wedges last at least 2 years for weekend golfers. If you practice a lot, just use an old wedge...
Sodthong Trouble is my old wedge would be a different length, so I’d get used to that and then be playing a different one out on the course!
Lol, I have a maxfli Australian blade sand wedge from the 70's. The grooves are practically non existent it has hit more stones than a rock breaker, the shaft is missing a lot of chrome & still has the original grip. The leading edge is razor sharp apart from the dents,,,,,but I've yet to find a more feel sensitive, workable wedge to replace it with and probably won't. It's great for chipping off very tight lies and out of clumpy grass and has a nice predictive run out. Who needs a new wedge!!
you do
Great music!
anyone know what mix this is?
Anyone know the name of that "do i wanna know" remix? :/
I can't remember and back then I wasn't very good at tagging the songs I'd used!
that's a pity, thanks for the reply
well thanks mate gonna have to buy new wedges now
I have a Reg 588 56 from like 2010 🤣. Think it could be time.
Nah, couple more seasons out of it yet I reckon...
do more videos plz
How about you scrub the wedge and clean the grooves and try this again.
Don Roby They were spotless, always are!
Scratch Golf, pause at 2:06 and 2:10. The grooves look like they could use a cleaning. Of course new clubs will always be better but unlike pros that get new wedges every few months, it can get pricey for the typical hack.
Don Roby That's just where the black finish fades over time mate.
Great video. Real world problems for the average joe. I think some of the famous you tube golfers should think about what we would find more informative and of greater benefit and not just testing clubs at near tour swing speeds that most of us can only dream of offering no benefits to us mortals.
Got this old Titleist 58 lob/sand. dull as a dogshit but cant part...
I’m sorry I watched this video. I was happy with my wedges until now 😭
chuck in the new bling factor and you in #WinnerWinnerChickenDinner territory 👍 Nike shoes any good? just done a review on my year old puma titan tour ignites and there wrecked. so shopping time. toying Nike or under armour Speith. #ToughLife
These are really comfortable and light, so ideal for summer, but the heels have worn already which is not good news. Let me know what you go for and what you think!
which version do you have?
Of shoes? Mine are Nike Fi Impact 2.
sorry yes shoes, I've watched the new wedges upload #Cleveland
Even harder to justify a £130 vokey now.
just sharpen the grooves
In golf, you live an die by your short game.
At least twice a week, I play in a league with some serious cash on the line and if you are gonna put your money where your money where your mouth is like I do, you better have good performing equipment.
Wedges with even a little wear on the face WILL result in longer putts the majority of the time , that's all there is to it. With cash on the line, I'll take a 10 ft putt over a 20 ft putt all day long.
All of the rest of you non-believers and hackers, keep hacking. Me, Im having fresh wedges twice a year and my golfing 'buddies' are "buying" em for me!
do u take lessons
I sure do. I think you can get better without lessons but it probably takes a lot longer; having an experienced coach help you should speed up the process. Do you have lessons yourself?
I'm going to starting having them in a week
Cool, let me know how you get on! Have you found a coach already?
Yes sir I have a coach
Ha ha ha ha ha - WTF music?
?
who cares. if i was rich or a pro golfer then i would give a shit about buying new wedges every 250 shots
so much rambling
great video!
Sjors den Ambtman Thank you! 👍