Free will is not an illusion. We get to choose what we want to do. And therefore we reap the consequences. How can someone say our actions are just merely an illusion? Don’t make sense. It is real
This woman was very quick to yell at Cliff that he was being aggressive but then goes on to basically take the p*ss out of him for believing in God. What a disrespectful person. Her hair told me everything before she opened her mouth. I hope God intervenes in her life before she dies and is thrown into Hell.
A very charitable episode... This felt more like a listening episode for Give me and answer, however, first time here so this may be the format. I look forward to more!
the fact that humans are capable of introspection i.e. analyzing our own thoughts, must point to something non material. If everything we do is determined, even in a very complex way, then everything we do and think is pointless.
EXACTLY! I came to this conclusion as I was deceived by Calvinism which says God predestined everything including evil. It’s such a load of a garbage and I knew in my heart that it couldn’t be true and we as humans have free agency, this life is a co creative experience between Man and God
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 no they’re not doing right! they’re living their own lives and ignoring God! God doesn’t want to throw them in hell that was created for the devil and his angels & Jesus died on the cross so they wouldn’t have to go there! everybody has sinned so you have to have Jesus blood to cover you sins! That sounds fair doesn’t it? Reject wrong, sin and go towards good and God! Argue against that what’s wrong with that?
@@jjphank Right, so God creates human consciousnesses without their consent, for the purpose that they should worship him (that's totally not narcissistic and self-obsessed), and if they don't end up worshipping him for whatever reason (born in the wrong culture, not enough evidence, too much suffering in the world, intellectual disagreement with the doctrines of christianity/islam/judeism), then he sends them to hell for eternity, often after having lived a miserable existence in the first place. After not having asked to be created in the first place. Yes, seems totally logical, rational and fair. God totally doesn't come across as a monomaniacal, egotistical tyrant dictator.
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 God is pure love and justice at the same time! you find this out when you come to God and/or see this in the Scriptures. that is the best thing for you is to worship him. Jesus is all you need is the Epitamy of everything. don’t need drugs don’t need any other escape! If you pray and seek God with all your heart you will find him the Bible says Jesus said that three times in his first sermon! But right back at you; if you do whatever you want to do and be a narcissist and claim that God is a narcissist, then you got the wrong view of God! Matthew 25 the parable of the talents deals with this! One of the three individuals had the wrong view of God & the other two had the right view and they all got equal payback for what they did, not just a mental assent! Faith equals action cuz faith without works is dead. Does this make sense? And because of God‘s perfect love of giving you chance after chance while you’re alive on earth to except Jesus for forgiveness of your sins, because of the corruption of sin in this world everybody’s born in sin, they can’t argue God I didn’t want to be born he’s going to say you should’ve been born again! On judgment day you cannot argue for God to annihilate you & say “God why did you create any of this?” Christians are going to speak up and say skews me you were a fool and you ignored God and we weren’t. we suffered in this life by not taking the easy road by standing up for Jesus under persecution of jobs etc., and God‘s going to say bring down the gavel to say no! eternity is still set the Christians just proved the point! God could say I gave you chance after chance to come to me! This life is a test if you’ll choose good or evil you cannot ride the fence Jesus says if you’re not for me you’re against me! If you don’t think that’s fair then you’re just lazy and you want to be a narcissist and you’re projecting onto God what you are so you can try to get away with it! That’s why it’s imperative my friend ,that you start looking for Jesus and the truth!
Even when Sue attempted to describe the true nature of the "self" she borrowed from the Christian viewpoint in order to make her point. Granted, she did so in a very patronizing tone and used the term "illusory self" in a weak attempt to mask that she needed to borrow words from the Christian viewpoint. Yet, she had no secular words to use to describe the "true self" other than to use words like "God-given" & "soul". Well, I dare ask how else would you describe who you are once you stop talking about genes, chemical compounds, flesh, blood, bones hair and nails? After all, when people ask who we are we don't start describing our bodies or our hair or the chemicals that flow through our body. We begin to describe our personalities & the things that make up our "true self" -- which I believe is the soul. In my opinion and personal involvement in my daughters' everyday lives, I don't feel that they have lived long enough or been around enough people for "society" to be a logical answer to explain how they've formed some of the personality traits that they possess. Yet, even when my daughters -- who are both still under the age of five -- were 6-9 months old & could not speak or understand the words that came out of my mouth they had already seemed to have formed very prominent and strong personality traits. These same traits have only blossomed now that they are much older. Thus, the idea that our personalities or "true self" comes from societal influences does nothing to explain how children -- like my children -- have completely or even halfway formed their personalities from a society that they have yet to truly experience.
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 Apologies for the late reply. Numerous reasons, but the big one was in a lecture where we were basically told that scientific inquiry into areas that might point towards God are essentially frowned upon. It would essentially destroy the modern scientific narrative which is essentially the God of those in the scientific community. Of case they didn't word it like that - in fact I don't remember the exact words as it was a couple of years ago, but it is the thing that stuck with me more than anything else throughout my studies.
How can you say consciousness is an illusion? You'd have to get outside the illusion to say that. 15:46 "To enjoy helping other people. Because, they can help us." So, if they can't help you, then you find no meaning? You only help people for something in return?
You make the assumption that everyone in the comment section is religious. I've read absolutely nothing hateful. Do you purport to believe that religious people are disallowed opinions/judgments that are not considered positive and optimistic in nature?
A sizable number certainly are, I agree with you but sometimes I think that is just people being people. A hateful religious person would probably also make a hateful atheist because it's just the way they are. I used to be religious, now I'm an agnostic atheist but I don't think my personality has altered much. If it has, it might have more to do with me getting too old to have the energy and inclination to be a selfish, hateful jerk to others, rather than because I am no longer religious.
I define Free will as our natural liberty to make choices that is not determined or coerced by any external influences. However, we Christians cannot escape the issue that an omniscient God knows in advance whatever choices we will make. How does he know it all in advance? Is it because he just simply knows or does he know it all because he has decreed it all before the foundation of the world? Now, I admit that it is difficult for me to reconcile my free will with divine providence. I’m willing to accept the paradox. Yes, my choices are all mine and they are free, and yet as a Christian theist I am compelled to affirm that nothing, absolutely nothing, occurs outside of God’s will and the purpose he has for all our lives.
God allows things to happen, omniscience is the state of knowing everything according to Google. God doesn’t just say this will happen then it happens and he knew it would happen he just allows his creation to be free and he limits his power for us. Human volition and Gods sovereignty will come full circle in eternity
If a person interrupts which is a bit rude in this format, it’s going to be seen by some of the thinking ones as a incapacity to defend their position and hence their need to interrupt. However Cliffe and Stewart on the other hand seem to be geniuses at not interrupting. Surely many of us would attend their seminars if they were teaching us their great art of how to not interrupt.
@@roybecker492 Gosh Roy old boy I mean shucks. Yes she is a nice women. But Roy old boy. Christians screaming. That’s a very interesting observation. One that no one else has noticed before you came along. If only you were the look out on the Titanic they could have missed that iceberg.
I find it interesting how atheist who study their whole life. how do they come to certain conclusions that does not have substance....I don't get it lol....how can a Dr. use words like somehow, maybe, by chance..How can they be convinced that someone that has never been observed or measured can happen given enough time?? as in wait long enough and the wind will create itself and then create a rolex watch...I am baffled at how basic their points are...sorry, its just always the same thing...
Because they are in denial! They dismiss God, as in dismissal of satan,Atheist/Humanist/Secularist/ Scientists/Materialist/satanist/religious/religion institutions etc.are the children of satan,so in all are of the agenda, in where the desires of satan to steal,destroy,and kill the created spiritual entity of the Creator
Nobody thinks the wind will create a Rolex watch lol. If you think that's what evolution is saying, you do not understand evolution AT ALL. I often hear theists say evolution is random. Evolution is not random, because of natural selection. It is the opposite of random.
Nicola Brothwell you’re right, it says nothing created the components for a Lamborghini. Then the wind created the Lamborghini Over time lol... I have studied evolution for many years and studied the work of many many many professors on the topic.....interestingly enough most of the brilliant minds that have ever lived have come to the same conclusion. Evolution as a process? True. Evolution as an origin? Not even close to being possible... Whiles my example is of course not stating the process of what evolution claims. At the grit of it, it is actually dead on as evolution has many holes with claims that have never been observed...have you asked the question why more and more scientist in our time are now believing Intelligent design? Hmm
@@J0PHIEL Evolution never claimed to explain the start of life. And saying scientists are turning to intelligent design sounds ludicrous to me, as intelligent design doesn't explain anything at all, but it doesn't matter if all scientists became creationists, that is a fallacy. Fact is, I don't see evidence for a God anywhere . For an atheist, evolution is not related to the god issue. That is something that concerns theists, not atheists.
She cuts Cliff off every time he starts to talk and when he stands his ground, to get his point across, she calls him aggressive? I know she's a guest but she is very rude. I hate the don't do to me what I'm doing to you attitude.
They were being nice to her, and giving her most of the time in this one. I would have preferred more of a debate, where both sides have equal time. But we did get to see where she was coming from. Even though big questions were missed, like do you have the free will to answer this question now, or is it determined?
So many run-on sentences! I hope her books are more coherent than her talks! (Does she always assume what she should be trying to prove? What is her rational basis for values? Why does she use such moral sounding terms, like 'should'? ...)
"YADA YADA YADA...BLAH BLAH BLAH" !!! PEOPLE SUPPRESS THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!! IF THIS LADY HAD THE COURAGE TO BE TOTALLY HONEST, SHE'D ADMIT THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT GOD TO EXIST BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T LIKE HIS RULES AND HIS JUDGMENT!!!
Yet it's the beauty of being able to have the conversations. I appreciate speaking with my atheist acquaintances. Im able to grow my faith and knowledge of the word as they challenge my biblical beliefs
@@TalkEssence thats a nonsensical, PC answer!!! The Bible calls them fools!!!they hate GOD, and will perform endless intricate mental gymnastics to avoid the truth about themselves and GOD!!! The holy spirit should be your teacher and your guide to all truth, not any man, let alone a self deluded GOD hater!!!
@@fishouttawtr of course theyre foolish and headed for hell. But so was I until some folks sat down with me and challenged my unbelief. Remember that it goes both ways. Many of those atheist acquaintances have walked away with smiles saying how I make them consider the gospel differently and "almost" makes them want to believe. So knowing I was once unbelieving as them, I can appreciate our convos.
@@TalkEssence there's a bit of a difference in lovingly speaking the truth to an Atheist, and "learning from one" it sounds like you're backpeddaling! I love everyone, but love warns and always speaks the truth!!!
Of all the deceptions, self deception has got to be the most interesting one. It’s almost fascinating to observe those people of high intellect who don’t actually realise they have hoodwinked themselves. We have the testimonies of atheists who have become converted, that state they were not aware that they were previously functioning in a state of great self deception, until they repented. In actuality atheists invariably seem incapable of realising that they have a preference for God to not exist. It’s quite sad to see them lying to themselves, saying that they are indeed very happy for God to exist. Wouldn’t it be a refreshing change if they for once they could just stand up and screamed it out that they don’t want God to exist. That would be a first wouldn’t it. But because they don’t have enough truth in them to do this, they are not necessarily despised but they are certainly not admired, are they.
@@paulwilfridhunt the withholding of absolute truth! from a society , by a certain upper class of individuals ie, illuminati, where by ,the institutions that have been established, in ,where information is gathered ,has been minipulated.
Great discussion. Although, it was a little one sided as Sue was doing the most talking, I don’t know if this was the agreed format. However, you all saw when Cliffe challenged her delusion, she immediately started calling Cliffe aggressive. Although, she was rather far more aggressive with her impertinent and unnecessary insults. Couple questions Sue needs to ask herself, Is she making a truth claim about her atheistic worldview, that there isn’t enough evidence for God ? And if she had evidence for God will she accept him? Or does she not want there to be a God so, she can do whatever she likes? I would say the latter since, firstly, it affirms her atheistic religion. Secondly, it gives her the freedom to live however she wants and thirdly, perhaps, it comes with all the perks of selling books and making a naming for herself as an atheist author and speaker. Anyhow, her expression and conclusion on the love of God exposes her deep sense of vitriol she has for God. This attitude is prevalent with most atheist. Also, she wants me to believe Hinduism is an Atheistic religion? Please look it up, at the core of yoga, Zen and all this consciousness foolishness is to release the kundalini serpent or energy. This spirit is clearly not from God so, where is it from? Lastly, Stuart is amazing but he needs to be a little more concise with his questions and conclusions but it comes with time I guess he will get there.
I too think Stuart is a little too nice/agreeable for his own good. I appreciate how Cliffe gets to the point. Cliffe though seems to purposely back off to allow Stuart to improve his argumentation. That’s true, Sue calls Cliffe aggressive for making a point, but just shortly prior to that that she cut him off almost immediately after he opened his mouth. What a contradiction. It seems to me Sue is more or less a pantheist than anything else. She clearly points out here that based on her worldview she is forced to agree that morality is relative yet doesn’t appear to realize that in arguing that she makes a truth claim of her own. What a contradiction. It also speaks volumes when near the end of the interview Sue says she is “really in favor of the right to die.” The more I listen to non religious the more I come to realize deep down at their core belief they prefer death/non existence to life.
It's too bad that we will never have that "utopian society" people hope for. Sadly this will never happen until Jesus returns because our hearts are wicked. If there's no good or evil then what's the point of doing "good" if we will never achieve it? This lady sure likes to hear herself talk...🤔
Yes we do have a good Hope I am millennial reign will prove Utopia on earth. And then after that we get to go to Heaven. God is light and in him there is no darkness at all God is not the author of evil, He is the author of free will so we can encourage ourselves in the fight against evil to keep doing good.
Isnt it interesting that what the Lord promises believers in this life and the next is really what atheist say they want in their own ways but without YHWH?
Is almost impossible to shine light into an atheist mind since their blindness is a punishment from God, a consequence of rejecting God in the first place. This conversation is hopefully for those who are seeking, definitely not the atheist but hopefully viewers of this channel. The Holy Spirit is the only one that can open Sue's eyes, so let's not get agitated when she doesn't get the obvious!!!!
I agree. There are many under a strong delusion. Many people would rather say that there is no objective morality than to admit that God exists. Well, I'll take God any day over subjective morality. All of the serial killers and megalomaniacs of the world will not stand justified by me and my opinion. I believe there is objective morality as if there isn't then this means that feeding the poor yesterday is no better than killing the poor today -- and there is nothing that even one Atheist could possibly ever say to make that statement have a ring of Truth or sound logical.
@@shameisnotwelcomehere3069 Just because morality is subjective doesn't mean it's ok to feed someone one day and kill them the next. It just means you decide for yourself what seems moral and what doesn't. I think many Christian's, when they pick the bits of the bible to obey (love they neighbour) and ignore the bits they don't like (not wearing mixed fabrics), are doing the exact same thing.
'The fool has said there is no God' How many countless people have hoped to die and turned their mindset around when finding God!! This woman with all due respect is foolish - apologies but that last minute and a half really struck a chord in me... And to accuse Clffe of being aggressive when she constantly interrupted, Pot - Kettle...
Rebellion towards God takes various forms from the self deceit of atheism to not keeping the 10 commandments. I think it’s important to be fair and give credit when it’s due. However in Sue’s situation she doesn’t get a standing ovation. Her incapacity to hold her fire completely destroyed her chance of having any credibility. Cliffe and Stewart treated her respectfully even though they completely disagreed with her. And whilst they don’t want any praise nevertheless they certainly deserve it.
Hmm im still watching. This is interesting. I immediately ask 2 things: isnt the human who is brought into this world sinful by our very nature - even as scripture describes? This is not by our free will. We came into the world and our actions of rebellion are clear. Parents instruct and children disobey from toddler years onward. Or do we not call it rebellion but instead, experimenting? And secondly, is not death determined? We have a shelf life. Anyway, im still watching. Great sit down.
Wisdom In Red Hebrews 2:14 says the devil is the one who holds the power of death. Check it up. John 10:10 says the thief steals kills and destroys. I personally believe many people die prematurely because the devil has legal rights to kill them. Am not trying to give the devil credit but it is true that adam and eve handed the authority over to him. So i believe those who genuinely are with the Lord are protected (unless they live in habitual sin) and require satan to seek God’s permission to touch them. God knows when we will die and how but i dont believe he actually determines it. If we live in ignorance we can be stolen and destroyed by devil. Hosea 4:6
Yes, many credible Christians would disagree with Cliffe and Stuart and say that determinism is the correct position. Or something like compatibilism which would be similar to soft determinism. "The lot is cast into the lap, but EVERY decision is from the LORD." - Proverbs 16:33 "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD determines their steps. - Proverbs 16:9 Ephesians1:11 says that we have been predestined by God according to his purposes and that God works ALL things according to the counsel of HIS will. ALL things according to HIS will, not ours and all things have even been predetermined. Nothing catches God by surprise. "The LORD has made everything for His purposes, even the wicked for the day of trouble." - Proverbs 16:4
Ah... I was quite deceitfully directed here by a christian. I see only the self-righteous judgement of 'unbelievers' in this debate and in the comments below. iow, Pharisees, Sadducees and what have you. Judgement by a religion that practices weekly ritualized cannibalism, worships a dead guy on a stick, claims to be covered in the dead guy's blood, and celebrates the genocide of peaceful innocent peoples by their ancient prophets - as attested in their own holy book - while having themselves killed 700+ million people over the past 2,000 years (includes wars by christian nations and kingdoms - often, in wars against one another.) Such a peaceful... glorious... ethical... religion.
Dr. Susan Blackmore seems to be saying that freewill is only a very complex illusion. Which would imply that love is an illusion, and that Good and Evil are also both illusions. This also implies that Reason itself is an illusion. And that even this very Conversation is merely an illusion. My children understand life better than this.
Romans 1:21-23 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
34:40 - "We will transcend..." So we will be our own... gods? _What was the lie the Devil told Eve in the garden? ..._
That's the absolute truth of these sad souls whom to be of the line of Eve!!
"What was the lie the Devil told Eve in the garden? ..."
Eve isn't real
Free will is not an illusion. We get to choose what we want to do. And therefore we reap the consequences.
How can someone say our actions are just merely an illusion? Don’t make sense.
It is real
This woman was very quick to yell at Cliff that he was being aggressive but then goes on to basically take the p*ss out of him for believing in God. What a disrespectful person. Her hair told me everything before she opened her mouth.
I hope God intervenes in her life before she dies and is thrown into Hell.
This channel is the best
A very charitable episode... This felt more like a listening episode for Give me and answer, however, first time here so this may be the format. I look forward to more!
I have too much I would feel led to type. I will just repeat what someone said, pray for her.
the fact that humans are capable of introspection i.e. analyzing our own thoughts, must point to something non material. If everything we do is determined, even in a very complex way, then everything we do and think is pointless.
EXACTLY! I came to this conclusion as I was deceived by Calvinism which says God predestined everything including evil. It’s such a load of a garbage and I knew in my heart that it couldn’t be true and we as humans have free agency, this life is a co creative experience between Man and God
Free will God is not the author of evil He is the author of free will that’s why he can throw people in the hell with His clean hands.
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 no they’re not doing right! they’re living their own lives and ignoring God!
God doesn’t want to throw them in hell that was created for the devil and his angels & Jesus died on the cross so they wouldn’t have to go there! everybody has sinned so you have to have Jesus blood to cover you sins!
That sounds fair doesn’t it?
Reject wrong, sin and go towards good and God!
Argue against that what’s wrong with that?
@@jjphank Right, so God creates human consciousnesses without their consent, for the purpose that they should worship him (that's totally not narcissistic and self-obsessed), and if they don't end up worshipping him for whatever reason (born in the wrong culture, not enough evidence, too much suffering in the world, intellectual disagreement with the doctrines of christianity/islam/judeism), then he sends them to hell for eternity, often after having lived a miserable existence in the first place. After not having asked to be created in the first place. Yes, seems totally logical, rational and fair. God totally doesn't come across as a monomaniacal, egotistical tyrant dictator.
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 God is pure love and justice at the same time! you find this out when you come to God and/or see this in the Scriptures. that is the best thing for you is to worship him. Jesus is all you need is the Epitamy of everything. don’t need drugs don’t need any other escape! If you pray and seek God with all your heart you will find him the Bible says Jesus said that three times in his first sermon!
But right back at you; if you do whatever you want to do and be a narcissist and claim that God is a narcissist, then you got the wrong view of God! Matthew 25 the parable of the talents deals with this! One of the three individuals had the wrong view of God & the other two had the right view and they all got equal payback for what they did, not just a mental assent! Faith equals action cuz faith without works is dead.
Does this make sense?
And because of God‘s perfect love of giving you chance after chance while you’re alive on earth to except Jesus for forgiveness of your sins, because of the corruption of sin in this world everybody’s born in sin, they can’t argue God I didn’t want to be born he’s going to say you should’ve been born again!
On judgment day you cannot argue for God to annihilate you & say “God why did you create any of this?” Christians are going to speak up and say skews me you were a fool and you ignored God and we weren’t. we suffered in this life by not taking the easy road by standing up for Jesus under persecution of jobs etc., and God‘s going to say bring down the gavel to say no! eternity is still set the Christians just proved the point! God could say I gave you chance after chance to come to me!
This life is a test if you’ll choose good or evil you cannot ride the fence Jesus says if you’re not for me you’re against me!
If you don’t think that’s fair then you’re just lazy and you want to be a narcissist and you’re projecting onto God what you are so you can try to get away with it!
That’s why it’s imperative my friend ,that you start looking for Jesus and the truth!
I laughed so hard when they freaked out and shuffled Sue off the show after she started talking about the right to die!
ur statement not true
Even when Sue attempted to describe the true nature of the "self" she borrowed from the Christian viewpoint in order to make her point. Granted, she did so in a very patronizing tone and used the term "illusory self" in a weak attempt to mask that she needed to borrow words from the Christian viewpoint. Yet, she had no secular words to use to describe the "true self" other than to use words like "God-given" & "soul".
Well, I dare ask how else would you describe who you are once you stop talking about genes, chemical compounds, flesh, blood, bones hair and nails? After all, when people ask who we are we don't start describing our bodies or our hair or the chemicals that flow through our body. We begin to describe our personalities & the things that make up our "true self" -- which I believe is the soul.
In my opinion and personal involvement in my daughters' everyday lives, I don't feel that they have lived long enough or been around enough people for "society" to be a logical answer to explain how they've formed some of the personality traits that they possess.
Yet, even when my daughters -- who are both still under the age of five -- were 6-9 months old & could not speak or understand the words that came out of my mouth they had already seemed to have formed very prominent and strong personality traits. These same traits have only blossomed now that they are much older.
Thus, the idea that our personalities or "true self" comes from societal influences does nothing to explain how children -- like my children -- have completely or even halfway formed their personalities from a society that they have yet to truly experience.
“The more we learn about neuroscience...” funny, studying neuroscience is what helped sped up my turn towards Christianity.
How is that?
@@fishfrogdolphin2799 Apologies for the late reply. Numerous reasons, but the big one was in a lecture where we were basically told that scientific inquiry into areas that might point towards God are essentially frowned upon. It would essentially destroy the modern scientific narrative which is essentially the God of those in the scientific community. Of case they didn't word it like that - in fact I don't remember the exact words as it was a couple of years ago, but it is the thing that stuck with me more than anything else throughout my studies.
How can you say consciousness is an illusion? You'd have to get outside the illusion to say that.
15:46 "To enjoy helping other people. Because, they can help us."
So, if they can't help you, then you find no meaning? You only help people for something in return?
This comment section is terrible. Religious people are rather hateful here.
by determinism, i had no choice but to reply
You make the assumption that everyone in the comment section is religious. I've read absolutely nothing hateful. Do you purport to believe that religious people are disallowed opinions/judgments that are not considered positive and optimistic in nature?
A sizable number certainly are, I agree with you but sometimes I think that is just people being people. A hateful religious person would probably also make a hateful atheist because it's just the way they are. I used to be religious, now I'm an agnostic atheist but I don't think my personality has altered much. If it has, it might have more to do with me getting too old to have the energy and inclination to be a selfish, hateful jerk to others, rather than because I am no longer religious.
Who is? Give me names. Please point to these "Religious people" who are being hateful.
I define Free will as our natural liberty to make choices that is not determined or coerced by any external influences. However, we Christians cannot escape the issue that an omniscient God knows in advance whatever choices we will make. How does he know it all in advance? Is it because he just simply knows or does he know it all because he has decreed it all before the foundation of the world? Now, I admit that it is difficult for me to reconcile my free will with divine providence. I’m willing to accept the paradox. Yes, my choices are all mine and they are free, and yet as a Christian theist I am compelled to affirm that nothing, absolutely nothing, occurs outside of God’s will and the purpose he has for all our lives.
God allows things to happen, omniscience is the state of knowing everything according to Google. God doesn’t just say this will happen then it happens and he knew it would happen he just allows his creation to be free and he limits his power for us. Human volition and Gods sovereignty will come full circle in eternity
The same way you can know the sun will appear everyday, and not cause it
If a person interrupts which is a bit rude in this format, it’s going to be seen by some of the thinking ones as a incapacity to defend their position and hence their need to interrupt.
However Cliffe and Stewart on the other hand seem to be geniuses at not interrupting.
Surely many of us would attend their seminars if they were teaching us their great art of how to not interrupt.
You mean the two aggressive Christians screaming at this nice woman?
@@roybecker492 Gosh Roy old boy I mean shucks. Yes she is a nice women. But Roy old boy. Christians screaming. That’s a very interesting observation. One that no one else has noticed before you came along. If only you were the look out on the Titanic they could have missed that iceberg.
I find it interesting how atheist who study their whole life. how do they come to certain conclusions that does not have substance....I don't get it lol....how can a Dr. use words like somehow, maybe, by chance..How can they be convinced that someone that has never been observed or measured can happen given enough time?? as in wait long enough and the wind will create itself and then create a rolex watch...I am baffled at how basic their points are...sorry, its just always the same thing...
Always
Because they are in denial! They dismiss God, as in dismissal of satan,Atheist/Humanist/Secularist/ Scientists/Materialist/satanist/religious/religion institutions etc.are the children of satan,so in all are of the agenda, in where the desires of satan to steal,destroy,and kill the created spiritual entity of the Creator
Nobody thinks the wind will create a Rolex watch lol. If you think that's what evolution is saying, you do not understand evolution AT ALL. I often hear theists say evolution is random. Evolution is not random, because of natural selection. It is the opposite of random.
Nicola Brothwell you’re right, it says nothing created the components for a Lamborghini. Then the wind created the Lamborghini Over time lol...
I have studied evolution for many years and studied the work of many many many professors on the topic.....interestingly enough most of the brilliant minds that have ever lived have come to the same conclusion. Evolution as a process? True.
Evolution as an origin? Not even close to being possible...
Whiles my example is of course not stating the process of what evolution claims. At the grit of it, it is actually dead on as evolution has many holes with claims that have never been observed...have you asked the question why more and more scientist in our time are now believing Intelligent design? Hmm
@@J0PHIEL Evolution never claimed to explain the start of life.
And saying scientists are turning to intelligent design sounds ludicrous to me, as intelligent design doesn't explain anything at all, but it doesn't matter if all scientists became creationists, that is a fallacy.
Fact is, I don't see evidence for a God anywhere . For an atheist, evolution is not related to the god issue. That is something that concerns theists, not atheists.
She cuts Cliff off every time he starts to talk and when he stands his ground, to get his point across, she calls him aggressive? I know she's a guest but she is very rude. I hate the don't do to me what I'm doing to you attitude.
Correct!!!! I said the same.
Really? She has been rude? These two men screamed at her.... have you watched the same thing I've watched? Who screams in a conversation. Lol.
They were being nice to her, and giving her most of the time in this one. I would have preferred more of a debate, where both sides have equal time. But we did get to see where she was coming from. Even though big questions were missed, like do you have the free will to answer this question now, or is it determined?
Great points by Susan.
Wow, the woman cut off Cliffe. Wow.
Pray for Sue.
So many run-on sentences! I hope her books are more coherent than her talks! (Does she always assume what she should be trying to prove? What is her rational basis for values? Why does she use such moral sounding terms, like 'should'? ...)
How can people send donations to this ministry?
God bless!!!
"YADA YADA YADA...BLAH BLAH BLAH" !!! PEOPLE SUPPRESS THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!! IF THIS LADY HAD THE COURAGE TO BE TOTALLY HONEST, SHE'D ADMIT THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT GOD TO EXIST BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T LIKE HIS RULES AND HIS JUDGMENT!!!
Pretty much
Yet it's the beauty of being able to have the conversations. I appreciate speaking with my atheist acquaintances. Im able to grow my faith and knowledge of the word as they challenge my biblical beliefs
@@TalkEssence thats a nonsensical, PC answer!!! The Bible calls them fools!!!they hate GOD, and will perform endless intricate mental gymnastics to avoid the truth about themselves and GOD!!! The holy spirit should be your teacher and your guide to all truth, not any man, let alone a self deluded GOD hater!!!
@@fishouttawtr of course theyre foolish and headed for hell. But so was I until some folks sat down with me and challenged my unbelief. Remember that it goes both ways. Many of those atheist acquaintances have walked away with smiles saying how I make them consider the gospel differently and "almost" makes them want to believe. So knowing I was once unbelieving as them, I can appreciate our convos.
@@TalkEssence there's a bit of a difference in lovingly speaking the truth to an Atheist, and "learning from one" it sounds like you're backpeddaling! I love everyone, but love warns and always speaks the truth!!!
Of all the deceptions, self deception has got to be the most interesting one.
It’s almost fascinating to observe those people of high intellect who don’t actually realise they have hoodwinked themselves.
We have the testimonies of atheists who have become converted, that state they were not aware that they were previously functioning in a state of great self deception, until they repented.
In actuality atheists invariably seem incapable of realising that they have a preference for God to not exist.
It’s quite sad to see them lying to themselves, saying that they are indeed very happy for God to exist.
Wouldn’t it be a refreshing change if they for once they could just stand up and screamed it out that they don’t want God to exist. That would be a first wouldn’t it.
But because they don’t have enough truth in them to do this, they are not necessarily despised but they are certainly not admired, are they.
Indoctrination from the educational program of higher learning limited truths for the Elites = powers that be!
Ronald Sliski would you care to expand on that Ronald?
@@paulwilfridhunt the withholding of absolute truth! from a society , by a certain upper class of individuals ie, illuminati, where by ,the institutions that have been established, in ,where information is gathered ,has been minipulated.
@@ronaldsliski9585 do you have an example of this?
@@paulwilfridhunt crusades of the roman catholic empire, til the present day
Great discussion. Although, it was a little one sided as Sue was doing the most talking, I don’t know if this was the agreed format. However, you all saw when Cliffe challenged her delusion, she immediately started calling Cliffe aggressive. Although, she was rather far more aggressive with her impertinent and unnecessary insults.
Couple questions Sue needs to ask herself, Is she making a truth claim about her atheistic worldview, that there isn’t enough evidence for God ? And if she had evidence for God will she accept him? Or does she not want there to be a God so, she can do whatever she likes? I would say the latter since, firstly, it affirms her atheistic religion. Secondly, it gives her the freedom to live however she wants and thirdly, perhaps, it comes with all the perks of selling books and making a naming for herself as an atheist author and speaker.
Anyhow, her expression and conclusion on the love of God exposes her deep sense of vitriol she has for God.
This attitude is prevalent with most atheist.
Also, she wants me to believe Hinduism is an Atheistic religion? Please look it up, at the core of yoga, Zen and all this consciousness foolishness is to release the kundalini serpent or energy.
This spirit is clearly not from God so, where is it from?
Lastly, Stuart is amazing but he needs to be a little more concise with his questions and conclusions but it comes with time I guess he will get there.
I too think Stuart is a little too nice/agreeable for his own good. I appreciate how Cliffe gets to the point. Cliffe though seems to purposely back off to allow Stuart to improve his argumentation.
That’s true, Sue calls Cliffe aggressive for making a point, but just shortly prior to that that she cut him off almost immediately after he opened his mouth. What a contradiction.
It seems to me Sue is more or less a pantheist than anything else. She clearly points out here that based on her worldview she is forced to agree that morality is relative yet doesn’t appear to realize that in arguing that she makes a truth claim of her own. What a contradiction. It also speaks volumes when near the end of the interview Sue says she is “really in favor of the right to die.” The more I listen to non religious the more I come to realize deep down at their core belief they prefer death/non existence to life.
It's too bad that we will never have that "utopian society" people hope for. Sadly this will never happen until Jesus returns because our hearts are wicked. If there's no good or evil then what's the point of doing "good" if we will never achieve it?
This lady sure likes to hear herself talk...🤔
Yes we do have a good Hope I am millennial reign will prove Utopia on earth. And then after that we get to go to Heaven.
God is light and in him there is no darkness at all
God is not the author of evil, He is the author of free will so we can encourage ourselves in the fight against evil to keep doing good.
Yes we have free will we use it every day to choose what we want to eat.
Since God is not the author of evil He is the author of free will.
@@jjphank 👍
Isnt it interesting that what the Lord promises believers in this life and the next is really what atheist say they want in their own ways but without YHWH?
@@TalkEssence That's a really great point! We try so hard to get back to the garden and in His presence without Him and don't even realize it. 🙏
I just can't trust anyone with blue/pink hair... they're always like this hahaha
Is almost impossible to shine light into an atheist mind since their blindness is a punishment from God, a consequence of rejecting God in the first place. This conversation is hopefully for those who are seeking, definitely not the atheist but hopefully viewers of this channel. The Holy Spirit is the only one that can open Sue's eyes, so let's not get agitated when she doesn't get the obvious!!!!
Your god sounds like a douchebag.
I agree. There are many under a strong delusion. Many people would rather say that there is no objective morality than to admit that God exists. Well, I'll take God any day over subjective morality. All of the serial killers and megalomaniacs of the world will not stand justified by me and my opinion. I believe there is objective morality as if there isn't then this means that feeding the poor yesterday is no better than killing the poor today -- and there is nothing that even one Atheist could possibly ever say to make that statement have a ring of Truth or sound logical.
@@shameisnotwelcomehere3069 Very True!!!!
@@shameisnotwelcomehere3069 Just because morality is subjective doesn't mean it's ok to feed someone one day and kill them the next.
It just means you decide for yourself what seems moral and what doesn't.
I think many Christian's, when they pick the bits of the bible to obey (love they neighbour) and ignore the bits they don't like (not wearing mixed fabrics), are doing the exact same thing.
'The fool has said there is no God' How many countless people have hoped to die and turned their mindset around when finding God!! This woman with all due respect is foolish - apologies but that last minute and a half really struck a chord in me... And to accuse Clffe of being aggressive when she constantly interrupted, Pot - Kettle...
Rebellion towards God takes various forms from the self deceit of atheism to not keeping the 10 commandments.
I think it’s important to be fair and give credit when it’s due.
However in Sue’s situation she doesn’t get a standing ovation. Her incapacity to hold her fire completely destroyed her chance of having any credibility.
Cliffe and Stewart treated her respectfully even though they completely disagreed with her.
And whilst they don’t want any praise nevertheless they certainly deserve it.
35:01 So she doesn't have the intellect or the honesty to defend her position?
Due in part she gave herself over too satan as many of other sad souls are indoctrinated in doing
Hmm im still watching. This is interesting. I immediately ask 2 things: isnt the human who is brought into this world sinful by our very nature - even as scripture describes? This is not by our free will. We came into the world and our actions of rebellion are clear. Parents instruct and children disobey from toddler years onward. Or do we not call it rebellion but instead, experimenting? And secondly, is not death determined? We have a shelf life. Anyway, im still watching. Great sit down.
Wisdom In Red Hebrews 2:14 says the devil is the one who holds the power of death. Check it up. John 10:10 says the thief steals kills and destroys. I personally believe many people die prematurely because the devil has legal rights to kill them. Am not trying to give the devil credit but it is true that adam and eve handed the authority over to him. So i believe those who genuinely are with the Lord are protected (unless they live in habitual sin) and require satan to seek God’s permission to touch them. God knows when we will die and how but i dont believe he actually determines it. If we live in ignorance we can be stolen and destroyed by devil. Hosea 4:6
@@wem-c9f I agree
Yes, many credible Christians would disagree with Cliffe and Stuart and say that determinism is the correct position. Or something like compatibilism which would be similar to soft determinism.
"The lot is cast into the lap, but EVERY decision is from the LORD." - Proverbs 16:33
"In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD determines their steps. - Proverbs 16:9
Ephesians1:11 says that we have been predestined by God according to his purposes and that God works ALL things according to the counsel of HIS will. ALL things according to HIS will, not ours and all things have even been predetermined. Nothing catches God by surprise.
"The LORD has made everything for His purposes, even the wicked for the day of trouble." - Proverbs 16:4
@@Apologia5 yes. its all so profound. Absolutely intriguing.
@@TalkEssence Indeed :)
When you get aggressive this reveals cognitive dissonance.
She said Cliffe was being aggressive lol she keeps cutting him off
SHE was aggressive. I can’t believe she said that!
Ah... I was quite deceitfully directed here by a christian.
I see only the self-righteous judgement of 'unbelievers' in this debate and in the comments below.
iow, Pharisees, Sadducees and what have you. Judgement by a religion that practices weekly ritualized cannibalism, worships a dead guy on a stick, claims to be covered in the dead guy's blood, and celebrates the genocide of peaceful innocent peoples by their ancient prophets - as attested in their own holy book - while having themselves killed 700+ million people over the past 2,000 years (includes wars by christian nations and kingdoms - often, in wars against one another.)
Such a peaceful... glorious... ethical... religion.
Dr. Susan Blackmore seems to be saying that freewill is only a very complex illusion.
Which would imply that love is an illusion, and that
Good and Evil are also both illusions.
This also implies that Reason itself is an illusion. And that even this very Conversation is merely an illusion.
My children understand life better than this.
Romans 1:21-23
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
She just wants to be her own GOD.
lol
"She just wants to be her own GOD."
Wow, you are fucking delusional!
Oh my Sue really did talk a lot and then wanted to interrupt straight away?