Before choosing, I’d put drop bars on the MTB and tune the rebound for the cobbles. And I’d put 40mm FMB tubulars on the other bikes if they fit. Then I’d take the gravel bike anyway. Heh.
My Salsa Marrakesh touring bike with gravel bike tires. My other options in my garage are my 1984 Bianchi Limited race road bike and my Surly Pugsly fat tire bike. The Bianchi Limited would be destroyed by the cobbles and I would be in the hospital. My Surly Pugsly fat tire bike would get me to the end of the course safely the next morning or early afternoon.
To answer your question, I would ALWAYS use a road bike for a flat race with 80% tarmac. But this is obvious. What you should test instead with this same methodology (80/20 tarmac/pave, same rider and road bike) is tyre width, because your latest test was inconclusive. You should test Conti GP 5000 (one of the most popular tyres in the pro peloton) in 25, 28, 30 and 32mm (at accordingly appropriate pressures) and test them both in dry AND wet conditions. That would be a great test comparison!
It wasn't the Paris-Roubaix sportive, but close enough, I rode "We Ride Flanders" last weekend on my Diverge Gravel bike with 40mm WTB ByWay tires. Flew past loads of other riders on the cobbled sectors (although I did get passed by a Brompton(?!?) on the oude de Kwaremont demonstrating its not the tech but the rider that's the most important!).
Roubaix and Flanders cobbles are very different - we have a video about just how tough they are at Roubaix later this week - but yes, wider tyres are certainly an advantage!
It is definitly not the same thing. As I'm living near ''le Carrefour de l'arbre'' and at 20 km from Kwaremont and other bergs, I know them very well. Firstly cobbles are not the same. Their size, the way they are arranged, are totally different. Then in France the flat PR's cobbles sections are also used by tractors and other agricultural machine, so they are smashed, while the belgian one in the bergs are more ''protected'' sanctuaries . Finally on the one hand, you have flat french sections on which you have to ride as fast as possible if you don't want to be too shaked, and on the other belgian climbs on which you can't go fast anyway ( we are not MVDP ;-) ) . On PR you suffer whatever you do. In the bergs, you ''just'' need the right bottom bracket .
My primary bike is a Specialized Roubaix, and I love its suspended stem and flexy seatpost. I don’t ride on cobbles, but I do ride on California roads, so same thing.
Having recently ridden my Specialized Roub on the cobbles of Flanders, which are alegidly tamer than Paris-Roubaix, I'd say even crappy tarmac roads are nothing like cobbles. There's something about the frequency of the bumps, it's like the worst washboard you can imagine. The Future Shock is great and I almost always leave mine open but I wish I'd had 33C tyres with lower pressure on there too. The pros say they're using 28s or 30s but I bet more than a few oare just saying that but really using the widest legal tyres, 33C. Also they make use of air leak from latex tubulars so that they can start the day on hard tyres for the tarmac roads but by the time they reach the hardcore sectors they air leak has made the tyres much softer.
@@gcntech no this is true yours is pretty good, although i don’t understand not having suspension or 2.6 tyres😂 and the pressure you run the tyres at🤪. Tech is good though👍🤘
One more thing to consider, though I think it applies more to amateur riders than to pros, is that this test was a good indication of pure pace performance, accounting very little for fatigue. I'm not sure you're going to be able to push as easily on a road bike after many miles in the legs. Manon herself was on the point of taking a break on the cobbles and I do understand it. In my own expericence, beyond the 200 km mark comfort plays a bigger role than sheer performance in terms of not needing to slow down or stop every once in a while because of sorenesses of some sort. Plus, you enjoy the ride more, so for all of us I think gravel with big chunky tires is the best compromise. Lastly, I had my leg broken because of rough pavement a couple of years ago on a track bike with 25mm tires. Since then I just cannot trust skinny road tires for such surfaces.
Note: For the Gravel part, Alex was using a handle bar and seat post with some flex while Manon is using a full rigid cyclocross bike. Which may explains the Manon's surprising results imo...
I have a hybrid bike with front suspension, I swapped thev38c gravel tyres to 32 road tyres and I use it to exercise. No worries about crap roads can lock the suspension if you want. Great balance between a MTB and a road bike.
I'm just wondering how bad your 'crap roads' are? Like you I have a hybrid like (front suspension/38mm tyres) but recently bought a road bike which came with 28mm. Bought some 32mm (because some of the roads are bone shakers) and whilst these are better, I'm still shaken all over on some roads. Today I'm gonna take the mudguards off - so I can fit the 38mm tyres off my hybrid and see how they go.
@@childofeternity speed humps, potholes, rough road. I put 80 psi so its just more comfortable with front suspension that with a road bike and is still quite quick because I'm using 32c road tyres instead of gravel / cross tyres.
I have 32c on my front suspension man and it’s so much faster and still handles gravel just fine! I recently say a gravel bike with front suspension fork and that thing looked like a blast
I suspect that had some impact. full suspension will pedal more smoothly over rough sections as the rear wheel is in better contact with the road/trail surface.
If the MTB was correctly setup for the type of ride, it would have been faster. MTB "road tires" exist (i use them, 1.75 inch wide), shorter flat bars exist (i run 680mm), 2X MTB drive trains exist (planning to replace my 36t 1X with a 38t-28t 2X). Can even put aero bars on them (some do, i don't). Only reason i went with MTB instead of gravel is that MTB parts are cheaper to buy and easier to fiddle with. MT200 hydraulic brakes are a steal.
Don’t forget the actual speed you ride on the cobbles. If you ride slow, your wheels will drop between the cobbles. If you ride fast your wheels will ride over the tops of the cobbles. I once rode Paris Roubaix and found out that this was true. When the cobbles are rough, you have to ride faster. Take a breath afterwards on the tarmac. The high speed of the pro’s makes them ride over the tops of the cobbles. Makes it less bumpy, so the roadbike will have a higher advantage for the pro’s
Colbrelli used 32mm tyres on a wide rim last year and by far looked the smoothest over the cobbles, wouldnt be surprised if others go that wide too this year.
Last year's Roubaix was an outlier weather-wise. I agree that in such wet conditions, 32mm is the right horse. Still early for firm predictions but today, 7 days before the race, forecast is partly cloudy and no rain. So my guess is that if the forecast prevails, Cobrelli and most of the peloton would favor 28mm in dry conditions.
@@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker Unfortunately Colbrelli won't be able to race this year, he had a heart stroke during last Volta a Catalunya and might not be able to race again
@@aleixcomas8543 really? No kidding... 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ as if it didn't make make Global News... that's what happens when you take an experimental toxic JibJab dumbass
I suppose the difference between your results is due to the difference of the mtbs suspension. The fully makes it much more smoother to ride, while only front suspension doesn't have that big advantage on the driving performance on cobblestones
I’ve spent maybe 2 decades riding bmx and fixed gears. Channel inspired me to buy a gravel bike for geared. Mildly cheating with a nice Orbea Gain but I think it’s the best of both worlds. Also tubeless so rip pinching my tubes. This year I’ll be joining my father in the NYC 5 Boro bike tour since he’s part of founding group that used to tour and ride to Canada. That and he’s always been asking me to join him but sounded like suffering with a single gear! That cobble makes me want a suspension stem or something but yea barely any cobble out here in NYC so I think I’ll be okay lol
That was really interesting. I guess what we can take away is that cobbles are slowing lighter riders like Manon down more than heavier riders, roughly matches with what type of riders have won Roubaix. I think we can also take away that a full suspension XC MTB is much faster than a hardtail. However the estimates for the race time are closer to Roubaix ridden as a TT I guess, drafting was not in the calculation.
an interesting comparison and really explains those early Rock Shox road forks being named after P-R. one thing i'm curious about after listening to the cobbles on the hard tails: how much energy/effort could one save with suspension in those sections to later unleash on the tarmac?
So the obvious answer to me is a full suspension frame with drop bars, cross wheels/tires and as much of a road fit as you can achieve with the higher head tube. I've been debating making an "aero" mountain bike (basically just doing what I already mentioned above and then moulding some carbon fairings to smooth out airflow wherever possible) and it would be interesting to see how something like that would fair.
I wouldn't use my 10 yr old Pinarello, not sure it would fit 30's anyway. Would honestly pick my Kuwahara tourer. It's a late 80's, double butted chromoly steel frame, just a touch small for me, which I've compensated for with stem, seatpost and crank length, obviously. So nimble and responsive. Also, you can literally see it flex in the fork, and hear it flex in the rear when brake pad touches. Still, occasionally when out riding it, I think I'm on the Pinarello.
i am actually quite bummed no one in professional cycling used an optimized gravel bike for paris-roubaix. the route is flat, so half a kg more weight makes no difference. the position on the bike can be made as aero as on a road bike, a wide supple slick does not roll slower than a road bike tire on tarmac, and much faster with low pressure over the cobbles. that only leaves the aerodynamic disadvantage of the wider tire and frame in the calculation. on "normal mortal" power levels and speeds, the optimized gravel bike wins this. but even for the pros it should be really really close.
Jumbo Visma ride PR on the Cervelo Caledonia. This is the latested iteration of the R3 Mud so you can call it an optimized gravel bike. Jumbo only uses the Cervelo Caledonia on PR. This bike never comes out in any other race.
When I rode the P-R sportive (150km) I passed a lot of MTB’ers on the cobbles with my steel gravel/road bike on 32mm tires. But I think more because I had to because they could ride a lot slower with that suspension and bigger tyres.
Surely I can't be the only cyclist who embraces all forms of cycling? I like to think I'm fairly competent on the MTB & Road bike, although I was crap at BMX! These days, with old age & arthritis, I would use the MTB every time I hit the rough stuff. My Marzocchi forks are just brilliant & with air springs, they're easy to adjust for every occasion.
Lots of cyclists enjoy multiple disciplines! And look at the pros: the likes of Mathieu van der Poel, Tom Pidcock and Blanka Vas base their seasons around MTB, road and cyclo-cross!
It's a bit tricky tho, because holding wattage means that you think you can put the same amount of power on every bike, and comfort plays a part on that
Was won with Rock Shock forks installed back in the day a few times . Would interesting to run a MTB event on same day as a one off with all the top riders on the same course to see what would happen ..
An interesting experiment would be to ride to perceived effort (as opposed to power) on the cobbled sector and compare times. It would be cool to see whether its easier to push more power on one bike vs the other.
It's pretty much impossible to do properly, but measuring power at the cranks isn't the way to go for these tests - if power at the cranks is constant they should all technically perform the same. You should be measuring/maintaining bodily effort - how hard you're putting in to get that wattage at the cranks. A great example is lockout - folks say they get the same time with or without lockout over smooth terrain for a given maintained power - and yeah of course you should! However you're working less hard to reach the same power when locked out. There are a bunch of other factors too like gearing and what not but I doubt this is a very serious test anyway :P
you also should have started on the tarmac first. Your entry speed on the cobbles would also matter. The higher the entry speed, the less time spend on the cobbles. Exit speed would probably stay the same. I would estimate that for the women also the roud bike would be faster if you measure it like this
Surely using the hardest cobble section instead of a median 3 star sector surely is a huge factor in the results. If you had used a sector more akin to the average of the race Mannons results would probably have looked more like Alex's?
It’s more about the fastest bike for the finish in my opinion. Last year I’ve ridden a hobby race in conditions maybe even worse than Paris-Roubaix (also very rough cobbles, but also gravel and a section from MTB race). MTB were forbidden to start, but the starting field was divided almost 50:50 between road bikes and gravel/CX bikes. However, after the penultimate off-grid sector there was a longer steep tarmac climb, after which a front group was created only of road bikers. Even if someone on a gravel bike was able to come over the top of that hill in the first group, I hardly doubt he would have been able to win the race given it finishes again up a steep tarmac climb. On the Paris-Roubaix course it’s similar - if someone was on a gravel bike, he would be faster on the pavé sectors, but then the road cyclists would still close the gap to him afterwards and even if he came to finish with road bikers, he would have no chance in that velodrom sprint.
It really would depend on what gravel bike you have and you set up I have cycled my MTB with 32mm road tyres as quick a my road bike in fact I passed another guy on my MTB going up a hill and he was on a s-works I'm sure he was surprised as I was when I passed him on just as we hit the top and I kept pull on the flat. But set up and tyre choice is the key a gravel bike with wide tyres and road gears could probably be as quick on the road.
@@darrengarvie8832 "I have ridden my MTB as fast as my road bike" this is just way too subjective to draw a conclusion from. Even if you felt like you did about the same effort, you might have had a great day because of prior resting, temperature, humidity, you name it were different etc. The fact that you have overtaken somebody on a fancy road bike proves even less, as the difference came down to fitness levels more than anything else at that point. The reality is that no matter how you tweak a MTB with skinnier tires and whatnot, if the bikes are at roughly the same prize point, the road bike will always be a lot faster on road, and the faster you go, the bigger the difference is.
but this doesn't take into account familiarity. I found when I got my Surly Big Fat Dummy, that it took me about 6 months to acclimate to it. similar when I switched from my road bike to the gravel bike, difference being that I ended up being faster on the gravel bike then I was on the road bike. not faster on the fat cargo bike than I was on the gravel bike, although if I swap for some road treads and take the rear rack off I probably would be on par... in fact if I restore my road bike, I bet I would be way faster than I used to be.
Summary: Race is mainly a road race, so road bike should naturally be better. On cobbles, the differences are more in comfort than in speed. Although the discomfort of a road bike may be more of a problem on longer cobbled sectors. For pros, tough out the cobbles, and use pro power to maximise speed on road. Goes to show that if speed is the only criterion, go for the lightest bike that will withstand the conditions, and be an athlete. I'd use my trusty no-suspension MTB (suspension means a big weight penalty) and slow down as needed on the cobbles, and enjoy the experience.
@@Stevenafoe Rene Herse makes the 700C x 44 Snoqualmie Pass TC Tire and Ted King won the inaugural SBT GRVL (Steamboat Gravel) on Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass 700C x 35 mm tires. My point is simply that you can ride gravel and cobbles on a wide slick and comparing a gravel bike on a knobbly to a road bike on a slick is illogical since the biggest difference will clearly be due the additional rolling resistance caused by the knobs.
I think you'll now need to test a full-suspension road bike, and a full suspension gravel bike, a fat bike, a folding bike, and finally a e-fat-gravel-bike on the same sectors to see which is fastest!
SUGGESTION! This same expermient, BUT Road bike with 32mm tires with fox gravel fork; VERSUS Mountain bike the same 32mm tires AND drop bars! (38t chainring or 2x if available or with some hacking, even if not with ideal chain line) This would put the world on a slippery slope of testing!
LOL I still think about that clip of freezing up on the hill I'm sorry. But meanwhile I'm more scared to be on a road at high speed with traffic around me
You rode on the worst sector of Roubaix and added some tarmac part 20:80. But most sectors are not so bad at all. So road bike on 30-32mm must be quicker than MTB or gravel. However, If I must ride it, I would choose gravel with 38-40mm tyres
Funny enough i rode today with my road bike (tyre 22 mm) over the cobble for the first time. I can't not believe it! I don't want to ride that again very soon. The cobble section was 1.8 km long and my time was 5:59 minutes. I wonder how can I improve my skills? 🤔
Just a little detail, the awful aerodynamics of a mountain bike wouldn't be as much of a disadvantage on the road if you were in a group. It would still be a disadvantage but not as much.
Pro's ride faster and drag increases with the square of velocity (2x faster is 4x drag), so the disadvantage gets bigger the faster the bunch travels. It's an interesting experiment but I don't think it scales effectively in speed or distance.
Be interesting to see if the riders were less fatigued if they had the larger volume tyres and stuff allow the rider put more power down for longer. Basically you should rerun the test and make them do the full distance
#askgcntech I want to change my gravel bike to flat bars, but I cannot fit a brake lever that is compatible with the SRAM Apex 1 HRD. Do you know if there is one that will work?
This is the important part. And she remembered to lock out on the road. People think the rear shock is about comfort. Its not. Its about keeping the rear tire connected with the ground over rough surfaces. That allowed her to maintain consistent power output over the cobbles.
Absolutely, a Gravel bike could win P-R. This really not a true comparative ananlysis. Gearing is not comparable. Were any the rigs running tubeless? That would be significant with regard to tyre pressures.
Oh, yeah, ‘could’ win. But the road bike is faster as they have shown. But you can ofcourse call a road bike with thicker tyres (32, 35mm ) a gravel bike…
How are you monitoring the power with no watch or computer on the bikes ? …. Bearing in mind, the pros travelling at high speeds, aero becomes more important
Which bike would you choose if you were to ride the Paris-Roubaix route?
Before choosing, I’d put drop bars on the MTB and tune the rebound for the cobbles. And I’d put 40mm FMB tubulars on the other bikes if they fit. Then I’d take the gravel bike anyway. Heh.
My Salsa Marrakesh touring bike with gravel bike tires. My other options in my garage are my 1984 Bianchi Limited race road bike and my Surly Pugsly fat tire bike. The Bianchi Limited would be destroyed by the cobbles and I would be in the hospital. My Surly Pugsly fat tire bike would get me to the end of the course safely the next morning or early afternoon.
Mtb.
To answer your question, I would ALWAYS use a road bike for a flat race with 80% tarmac. But this is obvious. What you should test instead with this same methodology (80/20 tarmac/pave, same rider and road bike) is tyre width, because your latest test was inconclusive. You should test Conti GP 5000 (one of the most popular tyres in the pro peloton) in 25, 28, 30 and 32mm (at accordingly appropriate pressures) and test them both in dry AND wet conditions. That would be a great test comparison!
A motorbike?!! 😂😂😂 Soz, couldn’t resist!!! 😵💫😵💫😵💫🇬🇧
It wasn't the Paris-Roubaix sportive, but close enough, I rode "We Ride Flanders" last weekend on my Diverge Gravel bike with 40mm WTB ByWay tires. Flew past loads of other riders on the cobbled sectors (although I did get passed by a Brompton(?!?) on the oude de Kwaremont demonstrating its not the tech but the rider that's the most important!).
i don't think i'd ever emotionally survive from being dropped by a brompton
Roubaix and Flanders cobbles are very different - we have a video about just how tough they are at Roubaix later this week - but yes, wider tyres are certainly an advantage!
My bike would be on EBay soon as I was home if a James May bike went past me
I’ve ridden both and Paris Roubaix is plain scary and painful , it’s a massive relief to survive it with bike intact
It is definitly not the same thing. As I'm living near ''le Carrefour de l'arbre'' and at 20 km from Kwaremont and other bergs, I know them very well. Firstly cobbles are not the same. Their size, the way they are arranged, are totally different. Then in France the flat PR's cobbles sections are also used by tractors and other agricultural machine, so they are smashed, while the belgian one in the bergs are more ''protected'' sanctuaries . Finally on the one hand, you have flat french sections on which you have to ride as fast as possible if you don't want to be too shaked, and on the other belgian climbs on which you can't go fast anyway ( we are not MVDP ;-) ) . On PR you suffer whatever you do. In the bergs, you ''just'' need the right bottom bracket .
My primary bike is a Specialized Roubaix, and I love its suspended stem and flexy seatpost. I don’t ride on cobbles, but I do ride on California roads, so same thing.
Having recently ridden my Specialized Roub on the cobbles of Flanders, which are alegidly tamer than Paris-Roubaix, I'd say even crappy tarmac roads are nothing like cobbles.
There's something about the frequency of the bumps, it's like the worst washboard you can imagine.
The Future Shock is great and I almost always leave mine open but I wish I'd had 33C tyres with lower pressure on there too.
The pros say they're using 28s or 30s but I bet more than a few oare just saying that but really using the widest legal tyres, 33C.
Also they make use of air leak from latex tubulars so that they can start the day on hard tyres for the tarmac roads but by the time they reach the hardcore sectors they air leak has made the tyres much softer.
Have to admit I am MTB through and through……how ever I do enjoy watching GCN, Manon def do more MTB riding…..love watching your segments🤘
No reason why you can't like both Garry! GMBN puts out some great content and we'd like to think ours isn't bad either! 😉
@@gcntech no this is true yours is pretty good, although i don’t understand not having suspension or 2.6 tyres😂 and the pressure you run the tyres at🤪. Tech is good though👍🤘
One more thing to consider, though I think it applies more to amateur riders than to pros, is that this test was a good indication of pure pace performance, accounting very little for fatigue. I'm not sure you're going to be able to push as easily on a road bike after many miles in the legs. Manon herself was on the point of taking a break on the cobbles and I do understand it. In my own expericence, beyond the 200 km mark comfort plays a bigger role than sheer performance in terms of not needing to slow down or stop every once in a while because of sorenesses of some sort. Plus, you enjoy the ride more, so for all of us I think gravel with big chunky tires is the best compromise. Lastly, I had my leg broken because of rough pavement a couple of years ago on a track bike with 25mm tires. Since then I just cannot trust skinny road tires for such surfaces.
Note: For the Gravel part, Alex was using a handle bar and seat post with some flex while Manon is using a full rigid cyclocross bike. Which may explains the Manon's surprising results imo...
yes but at the finish did he fold it leave it in everyone's way so they cracked their ankles on it ?
I have a hybrid bike with front suspension, I swapped thev38c gravel tyres to 32 road tyres and I use it to exercise. No worries about crap roads can lock the suspension if you want. Great balance between a MTB and a road bike.
I'm just wondering how bad your 'crap roads' are? Like you I have a hybrid like (front suspension/38mm tyres) but recently bought a road bike which came with 28mm. Bought some 32mm (because some of the roads are bone shakers) and whilst these are better, I'm still shaken all over on some roads. Today I'm gonna take the mudguards off - so I can fit the 38mm tyres off my hybrid and see how they go.
@@childofeternity speed humps, potholes, rough road. I put 80 psi so its just more comfortable with front suspension that with a road bike and is still quite quick because I'm using 32c road tyres instead of gravel / cross tyres.
I have 32c on my front suspension man and it’s so much faster and still handles gravel just fine! I recently say a gravel bike with front suspension fork and that thing looked like a blast
I would argue the suspension is unnecessary, but everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Alex was riding a hard tail while Manon has a full suspension, would like to know if Alex also got a full suspension to see the results.
I suspect that had some impact. full suspension will pedal more smoothly over rough sections as the rear wheel is in better contact with the road/trail surface.
If the MTB was correctly setup for the type of ride, it would have been faster. MTB "road tires" exist (i use them, 1.75 inch wide), shorter flat bars exist (i run 680mm), 2X MTB drive trains exist (planning to replace my 36t 1X with a 38t-28t 2X). Can even put aero bars on them (some do, i don't).
Only reason i went with MTB instead of gravel is that MTB parts are cheaper to buy and easier to fiddle with. MT200 hydraulic brakes are a steal.
Were you able to manage the power? You didn't mention the average power after the tests.
Power 200 and 250 w
Don’t forget the actual speed you ride on the cobbles. If you ride slow, your wheels will drop between the cobbles. If you ride fast your wheels will ride over the tops of the cobbles. I once rode Paris Roubaix and found out that this was true. When the cobbles are rough, you have to ride faster. Take a breath afterwards on the tarmac.
The high speed of the pro’s makes them ride over the tops of the cobbles. Makes it less bumpy, so the roadbike will have a higher advantage for the pro’s
Speed definitely made a difference (I.e aero more important) but probably your weight differences too as Manon was getting chucked everywhere !
Colbrelli used 32mm tyres on a wide rim last year and by far looked the smoothest over the cobbles, wouldnt be surprised if others go that wide too this year.
Last year's Roubaix was an outlier weather-wise. I agree that in such wet conditions, 32mm is the right horse. Still early for firm predictions but today, 7 days before the race, forecast is partly cloudy and no rain. So my guess is that if the forecast prevails, Cobrelli and most of the peloton would favor 28mm in dry conditions.
Sonny won't be cobblin' ANYMORE...ever. 👍 #StupidIsAsStupidDoes 💉🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker Unfortunately Colbrelli won't be able to race this year, he had a heart stroke during last Volta a Catalunya and might not be able to race again
@@aleixcomas8543 I know that, but my point was that if he did raced Roubaix on a dry sunny day he wouldn't be using 32mm tyres.
@@aleixcomas8543 really? No kidding... 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ as if it didn't make make Global News...
that's what happens when you take an experimental toxic JibJab dumbass
I suppose the difference between your results is due to the difference of the mtbs suspension. The fully makes it much more smoother to ride, while only front suspension doesn't have that big advantage on the driving performance on cobblestones
I’ve spent maybe 2 decades riding bmx and fixed gears. Channel inspired me to buy a gravel bike for geared. Mildly cheating with a nice Orbea Gain but I think it’s the best of both worlds. Also tubeless so rip pinching my tubes. This year I’ll be joining my father in the NYC 5 Boro bike tour since he’s part of founding group that used to tour and ride to Canada. That and he’s always been asking me to join him but sounded like suffering with a single gear!
That cobble makes me want a suspension stem or something but yea barely any cobble out here in NYC so I think I’ll be okay lol
That was really interesting. I guess what we can take away is that cobbles are slowing lighter riders like Manon down more than heavier riders, roughly matches with what type of riders have won Roubaix. I think we can also take away that a full suspension XC MTB is much faster than a hardtail. However the estimates for the race time are closer to Roubaix ridden as a TT I guess, drafting was not in the calculation.
Really good points Christian! 👍
Gearing is a major disadvantage on the MTB. If you had larger gearing the difference would be smaller.
Definitely. Especially on flat tarmac
yes! more Cobble content! will there be more Cobble vids this week?!
No…it’s too cobbly for bikes and bodies 😎
Yes there will Paul!
@@bikemike1118 buy the correct bike and cobbles are a piece of cake!
an interesting comparison and really explains those early Rock Shox road forks being named after P-R. one thing i'm curious about after listening to the cobbles on the hard tails: how much energy/effort could one save with suspension in those sections to later unleash on the tarmac?
So the obvious answer to me is a full suspension frame with drop bars, cross wheels/tires and as much of a road fit as you can achieve with the higher head tube. I've been debating making an "aero" mountain bike (basically just doing what I already mentioned above and then moulding some carbon fairings to smooth out airflow wherever possible) and it would be interesting to see how something like that would fair.
I wouldn't use my 10 yr old Pinarello, not sure it would fit 30's anyway. Would honestly pick my Kuwahara tourer. It's a late 80's, double butted chromoly steel frame, just a touch small for me, which I've compensated for with stem, seatpost and crank length, obviously. So nimble and responsive. Also, you can literally see it flex in the fork, and hear it flex in the rear when brake pad touches. Still, occasionally when out riding it, I think I'm on the Pinarello.
i am actually quite bummed no one in professional cycling used an optimized gravel bike for paris-roubaix. the route is flat, so half a kg more weight makes no difference. the position on the bike can be made as aero as on a road bike, a wide supple slick does not roll slower than a road bike tire on tarmac, and much faster with low pressure over the cobbles. that only leaves the aerodynamic disadvantage of the wider tire and frame in the calculation.
on "normal mortal" power levels and speeds, the optimized gravel bike wins this. but even for the pros it should be really really close.
Jumbo Visma ride PR on the Cervelo Caledonia. This is the latested iteration of the R3 Mud so you can call it an optimized gravel bike. Jumbo only uses the Cervelo Caledonia on PR. This bike never comes out in any other race.
Those MTN rigs won't be very fast without pedals! 😂
Also I absolutely love Manon's CX paintjob 😍 And great idea to conduct this test!
I would choose a dropped bar MTB. More hand positions and the ability to have an aerodynamic advantage.
How about a full suspension gravel bike like the Niner MCR?
If it's good enough for John Tomac...
we ride the levee here in SFLA and its Brutal so I upgraded to redshift stem and will see ow it is this weekend suspension definitely helps
I would like to see Hank do it on his penny farthing!!!
I'd be interested in Alex's views on the Canyon hoverbar on the cobbles.
When I rode the P-R sportive (150km) I passed a lot of MTB’ers on the cobbles with my steel gravel/road bike on 32mm tires. But I think more because I had to because they could ride a lot slower with that suspension and bigger tyres.
Surely I can't be the only cyclist who embraces all forms of cycling? I like to think I'm fairly competent on the MTB & Road bike, although I was crap at BMX! These days, with old age & arthritis, I would use the MTB every time I hit the rough stuff. My Marzocchi forks are just brilliant & with air springs, they're easy to adjust for every occasion.
Lots of cyclists enjoy multiple disciplines! And look at the pros: the likes of Mathieu van der Poel, Tom Pidcock and Blanka Vas base their seasons around MTB, road and cyclo-cross!
It's a bit tricky tho, because holding wattage means that you think you can put the same amount of power on every bike, and comfort plays a part on that
Was won with Rock Shock forks installed back in the day a few times . Would interesting to run a MTB event on same day as a one off with all the top riders on the same course to see what would happen ..
mountain bike with drop bars would be my choice. Like the one Lael Wilcox used for 2019 DKXL.
Would you really want to ride over miles of cobbles on a Road bike.
Unless in a race.
Liked the test very well explained.
Would have been good to see bigger chainring on the mtbs
How about a road bike with some suspension of sorts, like the Specialized Roubaix or Trek Domane, and put them on 30 or 32c tires?
u 2 make a great pair of presenters LOVE it
An interesting experiment would be to ride to perceived effort (as opposed to power) on the cobbled sector and compare times. It would be cool to see whether its easier to push more power on one bike vs the other.
Could be cool, but may give an advantage to whichever bike we use first
Bikes are cool. Old bikes, new bikes, cheap bikes, spendy bikes, slow bikes fast bikes. Bikes are cool.
It's pretty much impossible to do properly, but measuring power at the cranks isn't the way to go for these tests - if power at the cranks is constant they should all technically perform the same. You should be measuring/maintaining bodily effort - how hard you're putting in to get that wattage at the cranks.
A great example is lockout - folks say they get the same time with or without lockout over smooth terrain for a given maintained power - and yeah of course you should! However you're working less hard to reach the same power when locked out.
There are a bunch of other factors too like gearing and what not but I doubt this is a very serious test anyway :P
you also should have started on the tarmac first. Your entry speed on the cobbles would also matter. The higher the entry speed, the less time spend on the cobbles. Exit speed would probably stay the same. I would estimate that for the women also the roud bike would be faster if you measure it like this
Surely using the hardest cobble section instead of a median 3 star sector surely is a huge factor in the results. If you had used a sector more akin to the average of the race Mannons results would probably have looked more like Alex's?
Couldn't give Manon a computer mount?
Aside from the time element, could you each give us your overall fun score? :-)
It’s more about the fastest bike for the finish in my opinion. Last year I’ve ridden a hobby race in conditions maybe even worse than Paris-Roubaix (also very rough cobbles, but also gravel and a section from MTB race). MTB were forbidden to start, but the starting field was divided almost 50:50 between road bikes and gravel/CX bikes. However, after the penultimate off-grid sector there was a longer steep tarmac climb, after which a front group was created only of road bikers. Even if someone on a gravel bike was able to come over the top of that hill in the first group, I hardly doubt he would have been able to win the race given it finishes again up a steep tarmac climb. On the Paris-Roubaix course it’s similar - if someone was on a gravel bike, he would be faster on the pavé sectors, but then the road cyclists would still close the gap to him afterwards and even if he came to finish with road bikers, he would have no chance in that velodrom sprint.
It really would depend on what gravel bike you have and you set up I have cycled my MTB with 32mm road tyres as quick a my road bike in fact I passed another guy on my MTB going up a hill and he was on a s-works I'm sure he was surprised as I was when I passed him on just as we hit the top and I kept pull on the flat. But set up and tyre choice is the key a gravel bike with wide tyres and road gears could probably be as quick on the road.
@@darrengarvie8832 "I have ridden my MTB as fast as my road bike" this is just way too subjective to draw a conclusion from. Even if you felt like you did about the same effort, you might have had a great day because of prior resting, temperature, humidity, you name it were different etc.
The fact that you have overtaken somebody on a fancy road bike proves even less, as the difference came down to fitness levels more than anything else at that point.
The reality is that no matter how you tweak a MTB with skinnier tires and whatnot, if the bikes are at roughly the same prize point, the road bike will always be a lot faster on road, and the faster you go, the bigger the difference is.
Great shoot out....I'm still opting for MTB for cobbles lol...what about a road bike with the rock shox ruby on it, now that's some old tech
That's a throwback Abner!
Add in 21mm tyres too. 😅
I am thinking more time could be gained on all bike with more tire pressure tuning to be able to smooth out the cobbles and ride fast on tarmac.
How did you manage to ride to power ? I think I only saw one bike with a computer on ?
Good video though. I don't want to ride cobbles!
Looking forward for one-click-transformation bike😆
the one that sponsors me is fastest, of course! #ProMindset
but this doesn't take into account familiarity. I found when I got my Surly Big Fat Dummy, that it took me about 6 months to acclimate to it. similar when I switched from my road bike to the gravel bike, difference being that I ended up being faster on the gravel bike then I was on the road bike. not faster on the fat cargo bike than I was on the gravel bike, although if I swap for some road treads and take the rear rack off I probably would be on par... in fact if I restore my road bike, I bet I would be way faster than I used to be.
Summary: Race is mainly a road race, so road bike should naturally be better. On cobbles, the differences are more in comfort than in speed. Although the discomfort of a road bike may be more of a problem on longer cobbled sectors. For pros, tough out the cobbles, and use pro power to maximise speed on road.
Goes to show that if speed is the only criterion, go for the lightest bike that will withstand the conditions, and be an athlete.
I'd use my trusty no-suspension MTB (suspension means a big weight penalty) and slow down as needed on the cobbles, and enjoy the experience.
As a MTBer , I now ride Gravel. It is awesome.
That really is Blake's Orbea...same snapped upper bottle cage bolt as in GMBN bikepacking trip sponsored by fidlock 🕵️
You always do this, why not run a slicks on the gravel bikes?
Slicks in 45mm? Do those exist?
@@Stevenafoe Rene Herse makes the 700C x 44 Snoqualmie Pass TC Tire and Ted King won the inaugural SBT GRVL (Steamboat Gravel) on Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass 700C x 35 mm tires. My point is simply that you can ride gravel and cobbles on a wide slick and comparing a gravel bike on a knobbly to a road bike on a slick is illogical since the biggest difference will clearly be due the additional rolling resistance caused by the knobs.
I think you'll now need to test a full-suspension road bike, and a full suspension gravel bike, a fat bike, a folding bike, and finally a e-fat-gravel-bike on the same sectors to see which is fastest!
And touring bike and recumbent
SUGGESTION!
This same expermient, BUT
Road bike with 32mm tires with fox gravel fork;
VERSUS
Mountain bike the same 32mm tires AND drop bars! (38t chainring or 2x if available or with some hacking, even if not with ideal chain line)
This would put the world on a slippery slope of testing!
This would be a cool experiment!
LOL I still think about that clip of freezing up on the hill I'm sorry. But meanwhile I'm more scared to be on a road at high speed with traffic around me
Only thing left to do now is can a tandem or unicycle survive hank would love both of them 😂
Lance Armstrong once said in 2000 ‘It’s not about the bike’ and I totally second to that. It takes a lion’s heart to win!
Lance famously also had a helping hand from some other stuff too....
Interesting you picked a full suss and hardtail mtb?
You rode on the worst sector of Roubaix and added some tarmac part 20:80. But most sectors are not so bad at all. So road bike on 30-32mm must be quicker than MTB or gravel. However, If I must ride it, I would choose gravel with 38-40mm tyres
I still want you guys to do this exact test but instead of a mountain bike use a full suspension gravel bike like the Niner MCR or a GT grade carbon
Would be an interesting addition. Unfortunately we don't have one of those that we could have used!
Funny enough i rode today with my road bike (tyre 22 mm) over the cobble for the first time. I can't not believe it! I don't want to ride that again very soon. The cobble section was 1.8 km long and my time was 5:59 minutes. I wonder how can I improve my skills? 🤔
Wider tyres and practice!!
Just a little detail, the awful aerodynamics of a mountain bike wouldn't be as much of a disadvantage on the road if you were in a group. It would still be a disadvantage but not as much.
Pro's ride faster and drag increases with the square of velocity (2x faster is 4x drag), so the disadvantage gets bigger the faster the bunch travels. It's an interesting experiment but I don't think it scales effectively in speed or distance.
Now it's time to compare it with "GCN ultimate Bike" released on April 1st.
The Enduralgroad is beyond comparison
Well mountain bike has a 2x or 3x chainring 44t to 48t it will have significant speed on the road.
... and now the TT bikes.
Did they both hold the target power for each ride? I suspect that Manon didn't?
5:58 AlexKelaton
GCN SkelTECHon?
should have done it in the grizzly with flat hb sy used a couple vids ago
What size tire and model were you guys using in the mtb? Thanks!
thanks manon
Be interesting to see if the riders were less fatigued if they had the larger volume tyres and stuff allow the rider put more power down for longer. Basically you should rerun the test and make them do the full distance
Can't wait to tell Manon she has to go back and ride Paris-Roubaix in full
4:22 the amount of rubbish lying along the road is overwhelming...
Gravel bike w/ suspension stem is the best compromise.
"that would be ridiculous". Was Hank not available?
0:38 hahahahahah Manon Ioooooove that comment
My carbon Scott scale 930 is fast , light and comfortable. Almost as fast as my gravelbike and just as fun
How I hate cobbles! More then headwind and low temperatures!
One thing that you should probably note here is that she was riding a full suspension, while he was riding a hardtail
#askgcntech I want to change my gravel bike to flat bars, but I cannot fit a brake lever that is compatible with the SRAM Apex 1 HRD. Do you know if there is one that will work?
Next time try a mountain bike with drop bars.
Hey I mentioned this idea in the last video.
But she was on a full suspension and he a hardtail. I think a full suspension road bike will be the ultimate for the Paris Roubaix
This is the important part. And she remembered to lock out on the road. People think the rear shock is about comfort. Its not. Its about keeping the rear tire connected with the ground over rough surfaces. That allowed her to maintain consistent power output over the cobbles.
Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle famously won consecutive Roubaix in the 90s with a suspension fork. It certainly hasn't caught on though in the pro peloton!
What bike was the hardtail mtb?
Surely tyre pressures would have been a major factor here? But no mention of them.
They would, but wider tyres allow for lower pressure, so it's all included
still a big L on those new Zipp logos on th3 303 S. but they are at least very easy to rip off and get some new custom ones
Where's Hank on the unrestricted Gravel E-bike on this one?
Road bike with 30mm tyres is the best for this race I think
We think that will be the choice for a lot of the pros this year!
Paris-Roubaix does not hold a candle to the rough road and surface obstacles in my neighborhood. Ex. I counted 102 pot holes in one mile in SRQ.
Curious why you guys rarely wear cycling gloves when riding?
For sure, I almost never ride without gloves. I see no upside to ditching them.
@@123moof the gel inserts make rides comfier
I think by the end of the day fatigue had affected Manon to make her slower on the road bike
I have looked online for the bike I would use for the Paris-Roubaix. As I only have a provisional licence. I would go for the Aprillia RX125.
You need to check out The Gravel Cyclists latest video regarding Classified’s new rear hub. It looks amazing!!! Perfect for pretty much any bike. 👍
Absolutely, a Gravel bike could win P-R. This really not a true comparative ananlysis. Gearing is not comparable. Were any the rigs running tubeless? That would be significant with regard to tyre pressures.
Oh, yeah, ‘could’ win. But the road bike is faster as they have shown. But you can ofcourse call a road bike with thicker tyres (32, 35mm ) a gravel bike…
Suspension stem and seat post would make this more comfortable.
Yes but actual suspension, tire pressure and frame flex make a difference in tire grip as well which saves watts
did Manon shout out, oh my arse, when 1st going over the cobbles ?
Will there be a day when we see drop bars on suspension mountain bikes?
the grizl gravel bike by canyon has already front suspensions!
How are you monitoring the power with no watch or computer on the bikes ? …. Bearing in mind, the pros travelling at high speeds, aero becomes more important
Aero is important but not as much in a group unless you go off the front attacking
The mtb is surprisingly good, considering that this is definitely not its usual habitat