Have we all been tying our boats WRONG all this time?? The only way to tie a cleat properly!
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Every day I see another video on how to tie to a cleat on a dock. Each time another video claims to have the only way, but which way is best, have we all been doing it wrong? As we were filling up with water we took a walk along the dock to see how other people have been tying off.
Your video and it premiss is great fun.
As a fellow captain said to me "be reasonable, do it my way".
Thanks very much :)
Always do it the captains way!
Absolutely right - there are so many ways to do so many boating things… and different situations need different solutions.
Thats how we feel as well. Thanks for the comment. :)
Thanks, I just spoke to a boat club guy in the UK. He said personally he prefers a cleat hitch, but at boat club they use oxo as the RYA recommends that as it will not lock up with bigger boats sitting over time. My cleat hitch does lock a bit over time on the TN river, maybe i will try an oxo with a lock turn on top .
Good old RYA!. Thanks for watching and commenting. What size / weight of boat and what size line on the cleat hitch that binds? I would be interested to know. Thanks
@@theincompetentcrewThe OXO is the one I use 90% of the time, sometimes with a locking hitch if the line is on the thin side.
@@boondog8504 OXO is getting a lot of love on this feed. :)
The basic OXO worked for hemp warps that had heaps of friction. Try it with a modern warp and it may slip, especially if you use a braid rope!
I like to tie a bowline in the end and drop it over the cleat on the pontoon. If leaving the boat, I tie the bowline through the cleat. If sharing the cleat with neighbours, I would pass my bowline under and through theirs and then drop it over the cleat horns. Surely this is the only way!
Great video.
Sounds like you are quite a courteous boat Neighbour to have. Thanks for good contribution. We hope you stick around
If you have sole use of a cleat then you should use an OXO. But OXO makes it difficult to share. Some say use a bowline but that is not easily adjusted or untied under tension. I use a round turn and two half hitches, easily adjusted and released, even under tension. On the boat, on a cleat use an OXO. But on your boat with a Sampson post use a Lighterman’s Hitch.
Good advice. Thanks for contributing
The only way is never tie up always anchor ⚓️ 😂
Its a good tactic John. We done have a water maker yet though lol
You're wrong - the only way is the way i do it
Sounds like fighting words friend 🤠
I took the Day Skipper class, but, as an American, nobody I know has ever heard of an OXO. My American sailing buddies think I'm nuts when I do it. I generally use an oxo if there's a possible need to get it off quickly without getting stuck (Halyard, sheets) but I'll use American for my dinghy, since it takes less room on the cleat.
It’s funny, go to a different sailing organisation, or pick up a different book on techniques and often one technique will be advocated for, and another slammed. I think a lot of it comes down to who taught us, and what we personally favour. As long as it works.
Love the cheeky humor 😎
Thanks Rob!
If you are going to make off to a samson post, learn the tugboat hitch. It's very easy and can be tied and, more importantly, released under load. A clove hitch can be dangerous to release under load.
Hi, AZ26744. Thats good advice, I am aware of it but have never used. I shall try it a few times and add to my repertoire.
In my experience, the only way to tie up is the way that allows you to adjust ropes from onboard, and slip your berth from onboard. Double up your lines whenever you can, and find a way to share pontoon/dockside cleats. Also, bear in mind that when you are sharing those cleats you will often be doing so with a less experienced/caring crew, who, despite your best efforts, will trap your lines on the cleat.
Hey Joe, thanks for taking the time to comment. Very nice balanced comments showing a lot of experience. thankyou
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I usually use the standard American cleat hitch, unless I am standing & trying to tie to a cleat that is by my feet. They I wrangle once around, twice across & twice or more around, depending on the size of the cleat & line. Occasionally I do something different. My mooring lines are actually eye splices that come through the center of the cleat, then go around. If you are ever in West Palm Beach & want to see an even faster way to throw a clove hitch over a post, get in touch. I do it all the time. Basically, I grab the line with both hands facing opposite directions, pull the two loops around over each other, & throw the whole mess on the post at once. With practice, it becomes second nature & is very fast. Your way is a close second on speed & is a method I had not seen before. Thanks for that.If I need to do it one handed, that will be a nice tool to have in my tool box. Cheers
I know exactly what your talking about, (clove hitch two handed) we do that way all the time, thanks for taking the time to watch and describe with a bit of care. what an enjoyable comment to read. Thanks
And that's the only way to tie your boat: famous last words 😂
080808 - never finish with a loop over the top of itself as it will lock the rope up on itself when loaded up. Once all the going too is all sorted and you are comfortable how the line lay then etiquette then is to swap to a bowline only, ensuring the loop goes up through ALL other loops before going over the cleat/bollard/samson/etc.
Returning your line to the boat is for preparation to leave dock, then you don't need to step ashore when release the lines. I was taught is you need 5 lines, or 4 if lazy - Bow line, Stern Line, Bow spring line, Stern spring line and then midships line(optional).
Midships with a eye hook best for when entered into a lock with steps for the tidal area's(x2 even better then you will always have the boat under control.
my 2 pence worth 😝
Etiquette is a big thing a lot of people miss. Nothing more frustrating than pulling into a berth alongside, and most the cleats have been used to a point there is no more space for your lines. Thanks for adding that. :)
I see all the yats seem to buy expensive rope then reduce its strength by 50% by tying a bowline in it
@@yorkiechris99 Shhhhh! you will upset people giving facts! Don't mention what happens to nylon ropes when they get wet!
@@yorkiechris99I've heard a Yorkshire man will drive 500 miles to save a pound per meter on 20 meters of 1.20 per meter rope?
Sounds to me like it can be a granny knot. If you come back and your boat is still there it was good. Just need a knife if it gets wet. 😂😂
Haha. new lines each time is standard right? I haven't needed a knife yet.
In my opinion, how you do it is a very good solution, however I think you should have added that this is only safe if the boat is secured in a way that it is pulled from the opposite side constantly so the boat can not get closer to the dock so your line gets loose and unhook itself from the dock cleat. And there are circumstances when you tie your boat so that this might happen.
Thanks Sonnell, and yes, the point of the video is there are 100 different ways of tying up suited to different occasions, boats, line sizes etc. This video certainly doesn't go into any in depth detail. thanks for the comment :)
I wrap that cleat like a present when I tie up 😂 with a big bow
Do you double knot the bow?
@@theincompetentcrew it’s the only proper way….
OXO with a locking turn for us! If using cleat to spring off the pontoon, we have had experience of just an OXO actually slipping; doesn’t happen with a locking turn on the end.
Its a good solid bet (OXO). I've never tried to motor against an oxo, but I think I might go play tomorrow and see if I can replicate for a bit of fun. :)
@@theincompetentcrew 9/10 it’s absolutely fine to spring off, but you just know on that 1/10 you’ll have a stern spring dangling in the water nice and close to the prop…!
May I enquire: What's the only way to anchor and which anchor is the only one to have?
Hold my beer and give me a day.🤠.
I was told oxo in my RYA course.
It is a very good solid way with no hitch to get jammed and it keeps your hand a bit more clear from being crushed. Thanks for commenting, Hope you stick around :)
I was taught to use a bowline on the pontoon (to stop others interfering). Cleated off on board with OXO - RYA competent crew. Means there is no lines left on the pontoon for people to slip on. Then change to slips when readying for departure. Why was this wrong?
Hi David, lines made off on the boat is the best practice (avoids trip hazards on the dockside). After that- Oxo, cleat hitch, figure 8, whatever is used- A lot of people will say 'this is how it should be done', but reality- as long as it can be released safely under load and doesn't bind up- its somewhere near correct. The bowline on the dock and made off on the boat with an OXO- Great!. Dipping the eye and made off on the boat with 8's- also great. Once around and made off on the boat with a cleat hitch- great. Made off on your own dock finger/cleat (unshared cleat) without a giant tail of rope to trip on- fine. There are many ways, not just one. Some scenarios favour one way more than the other. (i'm no instructor- the rya will teach good habits. We just like sailing like everybody else.)
...the next only way....👍👍👍
One day I might actually show somebody how our boat is actually tied up :)
@@theincompetentcrew looking forward
Honestly, I end up mixing them all together and making a bit of a mess if it, but the boat ain't going nowhere.
I think we all do. In all the marinas we have been in the past months, I haven't seen one textbook finish (eye through cleat /dropped eye and over- on all cleats) boat tied up. As long as nobody is hurt and the boat is tied up. Win.
Learn a steamboat hitch for your knight head at the bow. Vastly stronger than a clove hitch. Cloves hitches can work loose ,when surging. Generally making off onboard your boat gives others a chance to dip their lines through your eye or two part ,so they can moor too. 25yrs making my living on seagoing tugboats,so far.
You will be happy to know the steamboat hitch deployed today :)
@@theincompetentcrew cool
Should be a bowline loop! Spare line taken up aboard the vessel.
After a boat is securely docked yes. But what about the moment you pull into a slip and your deckhand jumps ashore?
OXO is a temporary arrangement on the dock when first coming alongside, or for a short stay such as the fuel pontoon.
A permanent arrangement is a bowline on the dock and OXO on the boat. This leaves the dockside cleat available for others to also use (e.g. when the cleat for you stern is also serving the bowline for the boat behind, or when rafted up). The loose end of the rope is tided up on the boat, not lying around the dock or hogging the dockside cleat.
I normally use a few turns, on the cleat. More like OXXOO 🙂.
The more x's and o's the merrier. Thanks for contributing :)
Good not to overload the dock cleat so others can also use it, if your boats still there when you leave it's a success 😂
True that!
Brilliant
Si
"I believe in tradition. It saves me 150 years of mistakes."
Lessons to be learned from history for sure. But I bet you don't still use traditional hemp ropes?
I've seen people make multiple Xes over the top of the cleat. This never makes sense.
If the line is properly sized for the cleat, you need one loop around. This will jam into the cleat and take the load. Whether you finish with a cleat hitch or an X-O to lock it off doesn't matter much. But multiple Xes accomplish nothing.
If your line is too small for the cleat, and a single wrap doesn't jam in the cleat, it's perfectly fine to add multiple wraps until it does. But that's multiple wraps before the first crossing. Multiple crossings does nothing.
Hi Jeff. Thanks for commenting adding your perspective to the convo. Ben
I dont think you showed us a cleat hitch, which goes round once and has two locks. There is a definition of a knot: easy to do, easy to undo, and does the job. So a cleat heat is best. The oxo and the American (which we don't do there) take too long and without the locks, do not really do the job. I have seen the oxo with a cleat hutch double lock on top in the Solent, but I think it is overkill.
The cleat hitch thing is interesting, ready any two books and the description/ demo is slightly different each time. In the video if you look closely I do 2 of the variations (different in top box to main vid). And the last part- I think how somebody leave the oxo varies on how long they think they will be away from the boat. But like you say.. if it does the job. Thanks for commenting.
Great video. Would be better without the random music. Let's hear your voices!
Noted. :)
The only way to tie off properly is to stop somewhere that has the type of cleats that have a solid top and a hole below the top to thread the rope through first, clearly you are using the wrong type of docks lol
Well shoot my hat off. I hadn't even considered it was the wrong type of dock!!! I need a rethink :) lol. thanks for the comment
Anything starting with, “This is the only way…” is wrong.
Absolutely correct
There is not only one "right" way to tie a rope to a pole or a cleat. It really depends on the situation. Btw. one should always try to be a gentleman and put one's rope underneath the other rope when someone is already using the pole/cleat.
@@toredronen4980 couldn’t agree more! There are a hundred different ‘right’ ways. Depending on weather, boat type, boat size, line size etc. and you’re right, of course. Etiquette with neighbours is so often overlooked. We’d made this video as we were having a bit of a laugh after seeing so many videos suggesting that there really is ‘only one right way’. 😁 thanks for the comment.
😄
If you can't tie a knot, then tie alot.
Great and funny video! You're missing the importance of line thickness relative to cleat size (and an alternative Cleat Hitch) as is explained here: ua-cam.com/video/BBqsF72xNSU/v-deo.htmlsi=IhnNs8iX4ro0kwhN
Noooooooo!! I missed one!! Haha, thanks Cornelis for the comment and link :)
The next only way.
Always the next way!
If you wrap the warp twice around the cleat before returning it to the boat you will not be able to quick release from the boat when departing..**( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )**
Thanks for the comment (the secret is taking off the extra round from each cleat when you are readying to depart). would be an upsetting day to miss that when slipping. 😂
@@theincompetentcrew I concur after 25 years of living aboard,,**( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )**
@@theincompetentcrew .P.S can be a problem if you are sharing a cleat with another boat..!!!**( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )**
@@Zeb1432 Absolutely true. Thanks for the input to the convo. :)
Potato ......potatoe.....
@@johnbolongo9978 tomato…tomatoe…
Is there something ironic about an account called ‘the incompetent crew’ giving safety advice for yachting? 🤔
Yes
All wrong. You are supposed to make a looped splice for the dockside where it goes through the cleat and then around both horns and then you tie off on the boat to your cleat or post. If there is an emergency you can just unloop the ends from the dock and then you are clear and don't have ropes left behind or the potential tripping hazard of all the loose ends on the dock.
Interesting thought. What if the loop is under tension? Impossible to remove quick without two people (one release hitch on other end)? Also, what if somebody else has lines on top of yours? Are you sure thats the only right way? Thanks for sharing your perspective.
OXO isn’t good for boats bigger than 40’
Hi Mahalo, thanks for commenting. What would you use on a bigger boat?
ha ha ha... nobody's quite as dogmatic as a sailor.
Absolutely Correct!
Wrong... and potentially dangerous
Hi Keith, Explain how please.
@theincompetentcrew going all the way around the base can allow the line exiting the hitch to trap the turn.
With tide changes , the lead into the hitch can go up or down.... going down is not much of an issue.. if the line exiting the hitch is pulled up, it can trap the turn .. making it difficult to slack or even take the hitch off.
If the line is lead into cleat via a closed chock that is slightly below the cleat ... and the lead angle is controlled (no change in angle or height ) .. then a 1 + 1/4 turn works ... if the lead can rise, then only make the full turn, and start the figure 8 typical of the cleat hitch.
A couple of parameters that are always overlooked in tutorials on making fast to cleat.
1) the relative sizes of cleat and line.
A small line on big cleat needs multiple figure 8's before a hitch to lock. And too big of a line to small cleat is a none start... the line will jam, or even cut with a tiny cleat, let alone the strength.
2) The type of load expected ... cyclical or steady .... cyclical loads can cause creep, and chafing.
3) Is easing/adjusting/removal under load anticipated?
4) The lead into the hitch .. constant or will it change?
So lots to consider... the standard 'cleat hitch' works if the cleat and lines are compatible, and you can check on it from time to time.
Not sure where I would apply that other hitch? With a chock and Samson post?
@@keithdubose2150 Hi Keith, thanks for taking the time to writing that out. You are correct. There are a lot of ins and outs to tying to cleats and bollards. Some of the more obvious I don't even touch on in the video. The purpose of the video was to show there are different ways to tie to cleats, on and off the boat, and its all situation dependent, there is no one 'right way- the video was more of a 'poke' towards the videos that say 'this is the only way'. Hence why at the end I say 'I'm not going to tell you how to do it'. I think were on the same page on that.
@theincompetentcrew I think we are.... if stranded at sea I think all I have to do is declare this is the only way to hitch to cleat .. soon some will show up to 'correct me'.
I was not trying to poke back or pick at your videos... enjoy your content .. carry on!
Cleat hitch is the right way.
Cleat hitch can get overloaded in heavy weather if your boat is big enough and become hard to undo. Oxo is better I think
@@CrewNo2 Agree the Oxo may be easier to remove under load due to the extra first turn, but extra turns will also be slower to remove. Everything has tradeoffs.
For normal weather a cleat hitch works very well. It's why it's a cleat hitch. :)
We tend to tie up condition and circumstance dependent. little different every time :)
No such thing as the only way. Sorry.
Hi boondog, thanks for the comment. Can I ask, did you watch the whole video?
Nothing like centuries of sailors tying up their boats wrong.
Your comment sums it all up pretty well!
You do Not tie up a boat like that!! You should put a soft eye or bowline over the pontoon cleat and make the adjustments on the yacht. If another yacht is using that cleat in the proper manner pass your soft eye or bowline up through theirs and again make the adjustments on the yacht, this way if they want to depart they can do so without disturbing your mooring line. Please learn how to do things in a seaman like manner before making a UA-cam video. If you don’t believe me go and see how professional mariners tie their vessels up. Yes you are doing the cleat hitch ok but it Must be done on the vessel not the pontoon. Hope this helps.
We agree a bowline through the cleat is a great option for most occasions - once docked. The point of the video was there are many right ways to tie to a cleat dependent on a variety of factors which can't be weighted up in any one video claiming 'this is the only way to tie to a cleat'. Thanks for commenting and sharing your perspective.
Also, can I check, did you watch the whole video?
@@theincompetentcrew I most certainly didn't waste any more of my life watching nonsense.
@@stephransley4371 Oh dear! As an ex-professional mariner, and current yachtsman, I spot a keyboard warrior with limited experience. The eye over the dockside cleat is the way big ships do it, BUT, to slip your morning requires shoreside support - stevedores. Yachts don’t have this, so need a method of slipping without shore support. The only way you can slip safely is to have both rope ends onboard. So, kudos to @theincompententcrew
@@joemerican5781 nonsense. You sound like a farmer to me.
You should have your boat and camera taken off you. 😊
Seems like the only sane comment among us :)