Firstly: I watch a lot of sailing videos. This being one of the very few that I find truly helpful. I think of myself as a sensible person and reasonably experienced sailor but never heard of / knew about "dipping the line". So thank you for that. My problem with the "Flemish coil" is that it keeps the lines wet for a long while even after the rainstorm or splash is gone. I prefer to loop the lazy end and hang it from a cleat or the boat reling; this way it drains and dries quicker. In combination with your "dipping the line" procedure it would not inconvenience others either. My question for you: I find myself in tidal areas, no floating docks, so we tie up using the pilings. On low tide those become really tall structures. Most sailors tie a loop using a bowline and throw it over top of the piling.. If you now arrive and have to use the same piling... how do you not blanket the line already there? If the piling is not too thick and not too far away, one could loop the line all around the piling underneath the existing line but that does not always work. Suggestions?
Hi Peter, thanks for commenting. I am afraid I have little to no experience with pilings. I think this is a place where bowline, round turn +2HH, or around and back is the winner. Dropping the eye has limits. Which area are you in?
Wow, I have been sailing for 50 years and never heard of "dipping the eye". I never realized there was such a simple way to share a cleat with either rope able to be removed independently. Just goes to show that you can teach an old dog new tricks!
Outstanding, New Captain at 56 on our 1st vessel. She is a historic 46ft 112 year old Raised deck motor launch yacht. So this is great information. Good to have Etiquette like this indeed. Cheers from So California.
Good stuff, thanks for covering this issue. Maybe in the future you could cover anchoring etiquette because I think there are just as many people that muck that up.
I’m a deckhand on seagoing tugs. Good presentation. We always make of on the boat . We also throw our lines to the bits and cleats on the dock. The Flemish coil , as you say looks pretty but is fairly useless. If the line runs at all they spin the coil and foul. I like flaking and faking lines so they run when run when you need them without resetting. It is possible to pull a trapped eye out from under a non dipped line , but it is a chore. Dipping is vastly better. So, well done!
Thankyou for adding that. I did not know the name Flemish coil but now do. Learning every day. I hope you stick around and add to my knowledge base. Ben
I have a small sailboat and have only docked it next to other boats a couple of times but this kind of video content is a suscriber magnet! Not only for new boaters like me but for the grumpy sea dogs as well. Thanks a lot for the video and the useful tips! You got a new suscriber and ill definitely check out more videos from your channel!
Hi, I'm glad this helps. It doesn't apply to every situation, but, it does help when you pull in and identify where its done and how to apply it. Glad you enjoyed. Thats the reason I put this on here.
Great stuff ! I feel it is better to have any excess line on the boat, coiled and secured to the life lines. That prevents the extra from going overboard into the water to get dirty or wet and from potentially getting fowled in any propeller.
Great video. I knew about dipping they eye - but I still can’t get my head around why it works. Seems like magic 😂. I never knew that you could do the same technique when the bowline is passed through the centre of the cleat and back over the wings. Thanks for the enlightenment.
My own preference with a vessel of this size is to tie up in such a way that I can always release either end of the warp under load. For this reason I prefer not to use a spliced eye or a bowline. If I want to secure the end of a line to a cleat on the pontoon I’d use a round turn and two half hitches, more usually if tying up for a day or so I’d secure the line on the boat, take a round turn on the dock cleat (or pass the line between the legs of the cleat) and secure the other end aboard, ideally on a separate cleat or a winch. That way I can slip from aboard without re-rigging lines for slipping. With a larger ship this does not apply, I’d use multiple lines with spliced eyes ashore and re-rig lines for slipping. Having said that, I teach that there are many ways to tie up and the test is ‘does it do the job now and will it create a problem tomorrow when conditions are different?’ If it passes that test, do what you like.
Correct. My method is similar. The eye is only used to attach to a cleat on my boat. The line then goes around, or if needed through, the cleat ashore, and back home. Advantage of this is that there is only one end to handle and all without jumping off the boat while manoeuvring (except for the dipping the of the eyes, but that can be done a bit later).👴🤷♂
As a newbie. I appreciate what you have shown. I don't wish to upset others. I thought tidying the rope on the dock was OK. I will rethink this now. Thanks.
It varies area to area, and don't worry, nobody will get too upset if you do. The first boatyard I was at everybody tidied the lines on the dock. Glad you found it useful.
I'm a commercial master and also a life-long sailor and racer. Whenever possible, I dip and return my own lines, back to my own cleats/bitts, so I don't need to climb down off my own vessel and also dip the eye/s of the line/s on the dock. Generally makes departing quicker and less troublesome. Only issue with this (If long-term morning) is chafe... Great video, have subscribed...
Thanks, thats a good clean description you just gave of how to do it. And yes, anything more than a couple of days and chafe protection becomes a main focus. Thanks again for commenting
I've found this to be very informative and helpful. Being that we dock in New Jersey, US, there's one other method we see that you didn't cover. It consists of just taking a knife and cutting the other one free.
Dude, amazing! Now put a more descriptive title in. This is the best 'video' description out there. Even clearer than the actual lessons I had on my sailing courses!
Well well well. That was absolutely fantastic. And here I have got round my whole life never once thinking about or considering cleat etiquette. I must be one of the ones🫣 Can't wait to get round the docks tomorrow and have a look.
Thanks for commenting, Its pretty infrequent a cleat is shared between two boats (more an alongside thing) and even then, if you have neighbors you get along with, everybody is used to how they will tie up and there is no problem. Interesting thing to look out for as you wonder the dock though. :)
Good info. You did mention it in passing, but I think it is worth stressing that using a cleat knot or an OXO on the pontoon cleat, should only be a temporary measure. For a finished mooring job only a loop should sit on a pontoon cleat and the slack should be regulated and cleated off on the boat.
Great video. Well explained. I know lots of people just loop round and back to the boat but IMHO it’s really poor practice for any length of stay. You’re chafing your mooring line in the middle! Round turn and two half hitches or a spliced eye or bowline loop if you’re confident you won’t have to release under pressure). Can you make a video about correct etiquette for tying up your dinghy to the dinghy dock. LONG painters please to allow others to nudge you aside and get ashore. Certainly NEVER fore and aft.
@@johnmorris4034 that’s an excellent suggestion. Dinghy etiquette is often overlooked. It’s usually not a big deal when it happens, but it is a very easy to make a small adjustment and take others into consideration. The next time we’re in a situation where we see an obvious example of this/are around plenty of other dinghies, we’ll be sure to get it on video :) thanks john.
I've been familiar with this technique of passing a loop through from under all the others for a long time, but have never heard it called dipping the eye. Dipping the eye is what I do when I want to avoid eye contact with someone coming towards me.
I "flemish" our lines into a flat circle. I don't see it as a tripping hazard but the main thing is that it will stay put even in high wind. Some lines I secure from inside the boat and just throw the eye over the cleat, so no mess. When we first tie up I flake the line and then come back to flemish it. This is the only video of yours I've seen but I have very strict rules on tying a cleat hitch too.
Hi @woodycooper7551, thanks for your comment. I'm glad we are getting a mix of how people tie up and sort their lines. Gives others a good rounded idea of what is acceptable and how others do things. Top Job :).
Another, related, subject you could cover is what fairleads and hawse holes are and and what their function and use is. It seems to me that there is a high level of ignorance on the subject at least on the boats that tie alongside me. Many yachts seem to think running lines directly over capping rails and sawing through woodwork is acceptable practice😅
Eeeeee, don't look at my Cap rails. lol. We try to keep them through the fairleads, and mid ship we cut in a hawse hole to alleviate the problem we had. I will add it into a video when we do one next. thanks for the suggestion.
Great to see some etiquette being put across, that video should be compulsory viewing for sailing schools. I’m a firm believer that ‘spare’ warp should be taken back aboard and probably the easiest way is to use the end to tie the boat up. The coils as demonstrated may not be a big trip hazard but are very dangerous in that if someone is walking along and steps on one, they slide very easily. Slightly different topic, but I’m a firm believer in ‘one rope, one job’. I often see boats with one rope performing multiple functions including one I saw recently where the forward breast rope was cleated off on the pontoon, run on deck and cleated off again, run amidships to a pontoon cleat, cleated again as a forward spring, run aft as an aft spring, cleated again and then run ashore as the aft breast rope. How the heck does one adjust that - especially under load - or rig to slip if there’s any wind or tide?
They didn't cover it on our first sailing course. I think I read about it in a Yatchmaster book (maybe T Cunliffe??). The second part- That sounds like a nightmare to slip or a real headache to adjust if the weather turns. Agree, much better with separate lines. I have a real dit to spin about the danger of using the same line, when we next see both of you. :)
Well presented. I just hope the people who need to see this video do so. An even worse habit which seems to be growing is people running a line across the adjacent empty berth between finger pontoonss to hold their boat off its fenders. Because the berth is empty when this is done doesn't help the poor sod who arrives at 2 AM after a hard 12 hour beat and motors into the line in the dark.
There are so many boat users who haven't a clue about the simple stuff, like using a cleat. Swirling the rope is called cheesing (for obvious reasons). It is to be avoided as it puts a bias in the lay of the line, expecially if wet then drying out. This bias will result in the line kinking and knotting when in certain uses. Another stupid thing is putting unsheathed chain around cleats. This damages the cleat by leaving metal knicks or scores, roughing the cleat, making is bad for rope next time it's used. A good marina ( ie one that is actively managed by marineros /staff would not allow the latter).
By far the best etiqette is to run back to the boat to ensure lines can be released and adjusted from onboard. Springs are diff of course and should be boat to cleat to boat so end cleats are left free. Whilst the dipping is ok and the right way to secure an eye its not the best practice to do so. If everyone ran back to the boats this would not be an issue. What I do see a lot of is people using long mooring lines that are bow and stern and springs so this practice of half hitches on for and aft cleats is a big issue. These should be separate lines to ensure flexibility. It gets very interesting when rafted 4/5 deep and shore lines also come into play!!!
Hi, thanks for commenting. I personally like the round and back line, as its set to slip instantly as well as just neater. I have to say though, I'm not a fan of rafting together, I have avoided it like the plague. Even choosing to sail on into the night to avoid waking disgruntled sailors at 6am. :) thanks for commenting and sharing.
A line even when cheesed down can be a hazard. As it will likely roll under your foot. Avoid leaving lines cable or hose on the dock, where people may walk. If the line is close to the edge, and you have trollies passings a foot can roll on a rope over the edge.
Dock lines have eyes for a reason. The dumb end goes ashore. The smart end stays aboard. Problem solved. Tying up short-handed might call for a temporary reversal which can be fixed after the dust settles. Talk to the neighbors about their plans and be available as needed. If the racing fleet is in town, watch how they do it;
@@matthewsellers82 haha to each their own when it’s on their own cleat :) becomes a bit trickier when sharing the cleat though! 😂 thanks for the comment
My personal preference is to always run the line back to my boat, which doubles the line, making it stronger. It allows adjusting and managing the tension from the boat at all times. Conversely, I find it offensive and dangerous if people leave long parts of rope on the dock, or worse, when they wrap all leftover rope around the cleat, leaving little or no space for others.
Running a line through a cleat and back without any hitch is a recipe for chaff. One marina, particularly bumpy, a line rigged in this manner would chaff through in two weeks. A big ship fellow advised to always choke the line first, usually a girth hitch. Nice vid, commercial master with offshore sailing miles here.
@@barfootSmitty Yes, girth hitch is a good way to stop chafe. I didn't cover anything about chafe but sense another video being made to mention it. Thanks for the comment, keep them coming. Ben
I'm a 70yr old Brit learnt to sail as a boy at me Daddies knee, But as a Brit I also learnt, I'm no better than the next bloke, So I queue with others, and say sorry when I don't need to, so as to diffuse a problem, But when I go down to the Sea in a boat, I expect other Mariners to have their wits about them, for their safety, But Also mine, Selfishness is now a part of life Ashore, It will and does at sea,
Fleming Flake coiling the line on any horizontal surface is not professional. Top part drys while bottom stays moist. Rope drastically reduces breaking load. Best is hang excess vertical onboard. Dipped eye, bowline, cleat hitch or back to boat
Im pretty sure that the correct etiquette is never to cross a marina finger to use cleats on the other side. Stick to your own side. Report any loser crossing the finger to the office. The cleats are on both sides of the finger and are meant for the yacht on the same side only. Not only can you impede access to cleats for other people but the lines crossing over the finger are a clear tripping hazard. Edit: Corrected the absolute atrocious spelling mistakes.
I worked in a marina boat yard, and it is a definite no no to cross lines across a deck of a pontoon. In one case I was told to re-fasten the owners boat correctly, not crossing the pontoon and as I was doing that the owner came out, started yelling at me, threatening me, etc. He was told to leave the marina and never come back and he had paid for a full month at the beginning of that month. No money was refunded and the word was sent out. This guy is an asshole and at that point, it became difficult for him to find another marina that would accept him
I can imagine you’ve had to deal with a lot of *unsavoury moments working in a marina 😅 if customer service is a hard job..customer service with yachties would be next level
I was shown how to tie up a 70' sail boat against a busy quayside, that brought all the knots on board but also kept all the lines out of the reach of drunks who like to untie your boat at night for a laugh.
HI, thanks for the comment. Round turn and two half hitch is absolutely solid and good. The main purpose of the vid is just intended for where a cleat will be shared by two boats and trying to make space for the other guy (which isn't often for us). But absolutely, we will also use a round turn and two half hitches. Thanks again :)
In places where you are concerned about who has access to the lines, a bowline is harder to undo under load than a round turn and two half hitches. Not that this helps with breast ropes, of course. I generally do bowlines with a round turn, but you have a point.
@@richardfortescue5583 Thats true. You couldn't release a bowline under load and in the circumstance shown, the other end of the bowline would be made off on a deck cleat, a round turn and two half hitches can be released on the dock. The main purpose of the vid is just to show ways to share a cleat for boats coming in so one ever hinders other boats. Thanks for adding that.
@@theincompetentcrew to be fair I went down to our marina where we have a shared cleat with the next boat and the pair of us have been fumbling about doing figure eights on top of each other and apologising profusely every time in the best English manner, and I took yours and my advice and through the line through the cleat and did the round turn so that we can now both leave the dock without further awkwardness :D
Hi just, I will just clarify, the other end on deck would be done off with a cleat hitch or similar, so can be released from on deck. A round turn and two HH could be used also. An eye over the horns equally would be made off on deck to a cleat or similar.
Putting the black eye on top of the white eye (ua-cam.com/video/F864eD4oc1Q/v-deo.htmlsi=MRvjrRnMFthjFbiI&t=108) doesn't create a problem. The white eye can still be pull trough the black one, then over the cleat to free it. Actually the first configuration is what you'd get if the boat with the white eye came second and put the eye on as you showed to create the second configuration. I do not see any difference.
Hi casybond. Most the time it doesn't make too much difference. But if the 2nd line placed on top is loaded tight, it can form a trap for the first line that can be awkward to remove (try it with a couple of dockines and a friend keeping one tight). Depending on the boat it can either- easily pulled through, or if a larger boat, makes it a pinchy heave to pull the first line through and becomes bit of a finger trap. The larger the boat the more important it becomes to do. And if its done, avoids the problem most of the time making it quicker and easier to remove.
Ooh, by the way, this isn't 'courtesy', far from it, it's very much the correct way to do it, by the book you might say. Add how to moor to rings, that foxes most yachtsmen....
Thanks for commenting. I figured calling it courtesy is a nice gentle way to suggest it. And noted, I shall have to find some rings first though. I can't think of any coming up in the next week or two (there were back up the coast). But we will see.
This is the problem with amateur 'yotties', even those who have been sailing for 50 years, they don't get the chance to learn basic seamanship, particularly Americans! The number of bad moorings I've seen Yanks do.... I've spent most of my sailing career in tall ships and big gaff rigged vessels, you have to do it the correct way and the correct way, which most Americans don't seem to have grasped, is you only put the end of your warp ashore, (or double it back onboard) the rest stays onboard not get coiled down on the pontoon! Good video, I'm looking forward to reading all the comments, I bet there will be an American or three who will challenge what you're saying!
Must have been a pretty exciting career sailing tall ships, a really connection to history and the elements. I've been on a couple in port, but never crewed. Hope I get the chance at some point.
![Do boat STABILIZERS actually work? Watch our test WITH & WITHOUT them to find out! [MV FREEDOM]](/img/n.gif)
Firstly: I watch a lot of sailing videos. This being one of the very few that I find truly helpful. I think of myself as a sensible person and reasonably experienced sailor but never heard of / knew about "dipping the line". So thank you for that. My problem with the "Flemish coil" is that it keeps the lines wet for a long while even after the rainstorm or splash is gone. I prefer to loop the lazy end and hang it from a cleat or the boat reling; this way it drains and dries quicker. In combination with your "dipping the line" procedure it would not inconvenience others either.
My question for you: I find myself in tidal areas, no floating docks, so we tie up using the pilings. On low tide those become really tall structures. Most sailors tie a loop using a bowline and throw it over top of the piling.. If you now arrive and have to use the same piling... how do you not blanket the line already there? If the piling is not too thick and not too far away, one could loop the line all around the piling underneath the existing line but that does not always work. Suggestions?
Hi Peter, thanks for commenting. I am afraid I have little to no experience with pilings. I think this is a place where bowline, round turn +2HH, or around and back is the winner. Dropping the eye has limits. Which area are you in?
Wow, I have been sailing for 50 years and never heard of "dipping the eye". I never realized there was such a simple way to share a cleat with either rope able to be removed independently. Just goes to show that you can teach an old dog new tricks!
I'm sure everything you have done for 50 years has worked fine without it. But, nice to have in the bag of tricks.
Outstanding, New Captain at 56 on our 1st vessel. She is a historic 46ft 112 year old Raised deck motor launch yacht. So this is great information. Good to have Etiquette like this indeed. Cheers from So California.
Good stuff, thanks for covering this issue. Maybe in the future you could cover anchoring etiquette because I think there are just as many people that muck that up.
Thanks for the feedback. We are toying with a few anchor video ideas at the minute.
Great informative video. Like others have said these simple tips should be taught to all new sailors. A little courtesy goes a long way.
Always nice to keep your boat neighbors in mind! Glad you enjoyed
I’m a deckhand on seagoing tugs. Good presentation. We always make of on the boat . We also throw our lines to the bits and cleats on the dock. The Flemish coil , as you say looks pretty but is fairly useless. If the line runs at all they spin the coil and foul. I like flaking and faking lines so they run when run when you need them without resetting. It is possible to pull a trapped eye out from under a non dipped line , but it is a chore. Dipping is vastly better. So, well done!
Thankyou for adding that. I did not know the name Flemish coil but now do. Learning every day. I hope you stick around and add to my knowledge base. Ben
@@theincompetentcrew glad to help . Robert
Love the idea of getting all my line off the dock. It’s usually covered in bird droppings anyway.
New boater here. Thanks for teaching me how not to accidentally act like a jerk.
@@Lew114 Hey Lew! Thanks for watching. Glad you got something from it :)
I have a small sailboat and have only docked it next to other boats a couple of times but this kind of video content is a suscriber magnet! Not only for new boaters like me but for the grumpy sea dogs as well.
Thanks a lot for the video and the useful tips! You got a new suscriber and ill definitely check out more videos from your channel!
Hi, I'm glad this helps. It doesn't apply to every situation, but, it does help when you pull in and identify where its done and how to apply it. Glad you enjoyed. Thats the reason I put this on here.
Great stuff ! I feel it is better to have any excess line on the boat, coiled and secured to the life lines. That prevents the extra from going overboard into the water to get dirty or wet and from potentially getting fowled in any propeller.
agreed :)
I’ve left nicely coiled ropes tucked aside on the dock many times. Thinking back on it… they were nice and neat trip hazards. 😂
I think we all have
Great video. I knew about dipping they eye - but I still can’t get my head around why it works. Seems like magic 😂. I never knew that you could do the same technique when the bowline is passed through the centre of the cleat and back over the wings. Thanks for the enlightenment.
@@peterparryokeden Hi Peter 👋🏼 I’m glad I could share some tricks! Thanks for commenting :)
My own preference with a vessel of this size is to tie up in such a way that I can always release either end of the warp under load. For this reason I prefer not to use a spliced eye or a bowline. If I want to secure the end of a line to a cleat on the pontoon I’d use a round turn and two half hitches, more usually if tying up for a day or so I’d secure the line on the boat, take a round turn on the dock cleat (or pass the line between the legs of the cleat) and secure the other end aboard, ideally on a separate cleat or a winch. That way I can slip from aboard without re-rigging lines for slipping. With a larger ship this does not apply, I’d use multiple lines with spliced eyes ashore and re-rig lines for slipping. Having said that, I teach that there are many ways to tie up and the test is ‘does it do the job now and will it create a problem tomorrow when conditions are different?’ If it passes that test, do what you like.
That last part/question is exactly right. thanks for commenting :)
Correct. My method is similar.
The eye is only used to attach to a cleat on my boat. The line then goes around, or if needed through, the cleat ashore, and back home.
Advantage of this is that there is only one end to handle and all without jumping off the boat while manoeuvring (except for the dipping the of the eyes, but that can be done a bit later).👴🤷♂
Terrific presentation. The bleedin' obvious but thanks for making it so.
@@noellavery7481 thanks for the comment 😁 sometimes the obvious isn’t obvious until it is.
As a newbie. I appreciate what you have shown. I don't wish to upset others. I thought tidying the rope on the dock was OK. I will rethink this now. Thanks.
It varies area to area, and don't worry, nobody will get too upset if you do. The first boatyard I was at everybody tidied the lines on the dock. Glad you found it useful.
I'm a commercial master and also a life-long sailor and racer. Whenever possible, I dip and return my own lines, back to my own cleats/bitts, so I don't need to climb down off my own vessel and also dip the eye/s of the line/s on the dock. Generally makes departing quicker and less troublesome. Only issue with this (If long-term morning) is chafe...
Great video, have subscribed...
Thanks, thats a good clean description you just gave of how to do it. And yes, anything more than a couple of days and chafe protection becomes a main focus. Thanks again for commenting
Thanks, that was very informative and will come in handy for sure.
@@ChaseTheMoments glad you found it useful 😁
I've found this to be very informative and helpful.
Being that we dock in New Jersey, US, there's one other method we see that you didn't cover. It consists of just taking a knife and cutting the other one free.
Haha, that gave me a good laugh. Thanks for commenting.
😂
Sounds like vandalism to me.
Dude, amazing! Now put a more descriptive title in. This is the best 'video' description out there. Even clearer than the actual lessons I had on my sailing courses!
Thanks for the comment, glad you got something out of it. What would you title it if you were us?
Sexy mooring lines in busy marinas. Do it right.
@@Sp3ktral22 Haha, the million view title
@@Sp3ktral22😂
Definitely use that as a title in future 😂
Well well well. That was absolutely fantastic. And here I have got round my whole life never once thinking about or considering cleat etiquette. I must be one of the ones🫣
Can't wait to get round the docks tomorrow and have a look.
Thanks for commenting, Its pretty infrequent a cleat is shared between two boats (more an alongside thing) and even then, if you have neighbors you get along with, everybody is used to how they will tie up and there is no problem. Interesting thing to look out for as you wonder the dock though. :)
@@theincompetentcrew😢 we don't even have cleats. We have rings. And not one single one has been shared. Nice day walking the docks though.
@@SVZ-hj9fp you can't beat solid rings.
Nice style and laudable care not to judge… good luck growing your channel!
Thanks for the comment. I imagine the man leaves his boat for extended periods and just wants to make sure it doesn't break free while he is away. :)
Good info. You did mention it in passing, but I think it is worth stressing that using a cleat knot or an OXO on the pontoon cleat, should only be a temporary measure. For a finished mooring job only a loop should sit on a pontoon cleat and the slack should be regulated and cleated off on the boat.
Absolutely! And yes, it is worth stressing. thanks for adding. Ben
💯
Great video. Well explained.
I know lots of people just loop round and back to the boat but IMHO it’s really poor practice for any length of stay. You’re chafing your mooring line in the middle! Round turn and two half hitches or a spliced eye or bowline loop if you’re confident you won’t have to release under pressure).
Can you make a video about correct etiquette for tying up your dinghy to the dinghy dock. LONG painters please to allow others to nudge you aside and get ashore. Certainly NEVER fore and aft.
@@johnmorris4034 that’s an excellent suggestion. Dinghy etiquette is often overlooked. It’s usually not a big deal when it happens, but it is a very easy to make a small adjustment and take others into consideration. The next time we’re in a situation where we see an obvious example of this/are around plenty of other dinghies, we’ll be sure to get it on video :) thanks john.
Instead of one loop, you can do two loops and it reduces the chafing considerably.
I've been familiar with this technique of passing a loop through from under all the others for a long time, but have never heard it called dipping the eye.
Dipping the eye is what I do when I want to avoid eye contact with someone coming towards me.
😀
Excellent advice! Too bad so few "sailors" are completely unaware.
One of those things you don’t think about until someone tells you 😊
Thank you. I never heard the term “dipping the eye” or how to do it. A little etiquette goes a long way to making good neighbours
Glad it was helpful!
Great information, and you're right, people don't really think about etiquette unless they are the ones who are inconvenienced.
I "flemish" our lines into a flat circle. I don't see it as a tripping hazard but the main thing is that it will stay put even in high wind. Some lines I secure from inside the boat and just throw the eye over the cleat, so no mess. When we first tie up I flake the line and then come back to flemish it. This is the only video of yours I've seen but I have very strict rules on tying a cleat hitch too.
Hi @woodycooper7551, thanks for your comment. I'm glad we are getting a mix of how people tie up and sort their lines. Gives others a good rounded idea of what is acceptable and how others do things. Top Job :).
Well done. 🤙
can only try :)
Another, related, subject you could cover is what fairleads and hawse holes are and and what their function and use is. It seems to me that there is a high level of ignorance on the subject at least on the boats that tie alongside me. Many yachts seem to think running lines directly over capping rails and sawing through woodwork is acceptable practice😅
Eeeeee, don't look at my Cap rails. lol. We try to keep them through the fairleads, and mid ship we cut in a hawse hole to alleviate the problem we had. I will add it into a video when we do one next. thanks for the suggestion.
Great video 👌
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed 😁
Thanks for this.
@@SailingBuddsy-p7c glad you enjoyed 😄
Great to see some etiquette being put across, that video should be compulsory viewing for sailing schools. I’m a firm believer that ‘spare’ warp should be taken back aboard and probably the easiest way is to use the end to tie the boat up. The coils as demonstrated may not be a big trip hazard but are very dangerous in that if someone is walking along and steps on one, they slide very easily.
Slightly different topic, but I’m a firm believer in ‘one rope, one job’. I often see boats with one rope performing multiple functions including one I saw recently where the forward breast rope was cleated off on the pontoon, run on deck and cleated off again, run amidships to a pontoon cleat, cleated again as a forward spring, run aft as an aft spring, cleated again and then run ashore as the aft breast rope. How the heck does one adjust that - especially under load - or rig to slip if there’s any wind or tide?
Yeah with great difficulty. It's annoying and yet here we keep doing it
They didn't cover it on our first sailing course. I think I read about it in a Yatchmaster book (maybe T Cunliffe??). The second part- That sounds like a nightmare to slip or a real headache to adjust if the weather turns. Agree, much better with separate lines. I have a real dit to spin about the danger of using the same line, when we next see both of you. :)
Well presented. I just hope the people who need to see this video do so. An even worse habit which seems to be growing is people running a line across the adjacent empty berth between finger pontoonss to hold their boat off its fenders. Because the berth is empty when this is done doesn't help the poor sod who arrives at 2 AM after a hard 12 hour beat and motors into the line in the dark.
Worst nightmare
There are so many boat users who haven't a clue about the simple stuff, like using a cleat. Swirling the rope is called cheesing (for obvious reasons). It is to be avoided as it puts a bias in the lay of the line, expecially if wet then drying out. This bias will result in the line kinking and knotting when in certain uses. Another stupid thing is putting unsheathed chain around cleats. This damages the cleat by leaving metal knicks or scores, roughing the cleat, making is bad for rope next time it's used. A good marina ( ie one that is actively managed by marineros /staff would not allow the latter).
Hi Moonhand, thanks for adding this to the comments. Thats good info to have on here. Ben
Flemishing a line is not really called cheesing. But, it could be a very local dialect.
This should be universally tought
@@sailingsibongile we agree :)
nice spring line!
thanks
By far the best etiqette is to run back to the boat to ensure lines can be released and adjusted from onboard. Springs are diff of course and should be boat to cleat to boat so end cleats are left free. Whilst the dipping is ok and the right way to secure an eye its not the best practice to do so. If everyone ran back to the boats this would not be an issue.
What I do see a lot of is people using long mooring lines that are bow and stern and springs so this practice of half hitches on for and aft cleats is a big issue. These should be separate lines to ensure flexibility. It gets very interesting when rafted 4/5 deep and shore lines also come into play!!!
Hi, thanks for commenting. I personally like the round and back line, as its set to slip instantly as well as just neater. I have to say though, I'm not a fan of rafting together, I have avoided it like the plague. Even choosing to sail on into the night to avoid waking disgruntled sailors at 6am. :) thanks for commenting and sharing.
@@theincompetentcrew rafting can be fun, can be pain too. You dont have a choice in many places.
@@Corkedit The next marina down is actually one that does, so I guess we will see in the coming days (in Portugal now). Thanks again :)
Nice primer on how to avoid getting on other sailors´ cases!
😁👍🏼 glad you enjoyed!
A line even when cheesed down can be a hazard. As it will likely roll under your foot. Avoid leaving lines cable or hose on the dock, where people may walk. If the line is close to the edge, and you have trollies passings a foot can roll on a rope over the edge.
True! Thanks for weighing in. The latest dock is like the wild west in that regard.
Dock lines have eyes for a reason. The dumb end goes ashore. The smart end stays aboard. Problem solved. Tying up short-handed might call for a temporary reversal which can be fixed after the dust settles. Talk to the neighbors about their plans and be available as needed. If the racing fleet is in town, watch how they do it;
Watching how other people do things is always a great way to learn! 😁 cheers!
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Interesting
😁 thanks for watching!
My personal gripe: if one X is good, then ten must be better; either blocking the cleat or pinning mine down...Grr Argh
@@matthewsellers82 haha to each their own when it’s on their own cleat :) becomes a bit trickier when sharing the cleat though! 😂 thanks for the comment
My personal preference is to always run the line back to my boat, which doubles the line, making it stronger. It allows adjusting and managing the tension from the boat at all times.
Conversely, I find it offensive and dangerous if people leave long parts of rope on the dock, or worse, when they wrap all leftover rope around the cleat, leaving little or no space for others.
I'm a fan on the once around and back on deck. It also makes it pretty much ready to slip. Thanks for commenting. Ben
Running a line through a cleat and back without any hitch is a recipe for chaff. One marina, particularly bumpy, a line rigged in this manner would chaff through in two weeks. A big ship fellow advised to always choke the line first, usually a girth hitch.
Nice vid, commercial master with offshore sailing miles here.
@@barfootSmitty Yes, girth hitch is a good way to stop chafe. I didn't cover anything about chafe but sense another video being made to mention it. Thanks for the comment, keep them coming. Ben
For noobs like me & my man, this is great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed. :)
Good and proper things that should be normal.
@08:28 I would rather bundle the excess line and secure it to my own line with a clove hitch.👴😉
A good tidy solution. Thanks for commenting.
I'm a 70yr old Brit learnt to sail as a boy at me Daddies knee, But as a Brit I also learnt, I'm no better than the next bloke, So I queue with others, and say sorry when I don't need to, so as to diffuse a problem, But when I go down to the Sea in a boat, I expect other Mariners to have their wits about them, for their safety, But Also mine, Selfishness is now a part of life Ashore, It will and does at sea,
We can only better ourselves at the end of the day :)
Fleming Flake coiling the line on any horizontal surface is not professional. Top part drys while bottom stays moist. Rope drastically reduces breaking load. Best is hang excess vertical onboard. Dipped eye, bowline, cleat hitch or back to boat
Agreed!
Power boaters usually are completely clueless (pun intended)
Even large ships do this. Too bad so many people don’t make an effort to learn good sailor skills.
I think as boats get bigger, it becomes more and more essential to have it right. thanks for the comment.
Very informative
@@KristiRich-k9f glad you found it useful!
Im pretty sure that the correct etiquette is never to cross a marina finger to use cleats on the other side. Stick to your own side. Report any loser crossing the finger to the office.
The cleats are on both sides of the finger and are meant for the yacht on the same side only. Not only can you impede access to cleats for other people but the lines crossing over the finger are a clear tripping hazard.
Edit: Corrected the absolute atrocious spelling mistakes.
Absolutely correct tony. Ropes should never be across the finger. A real trip hazard like you say.
Thank you for ignoring my horrid spelling on that post. I wasn't as think as you drunk I was.
@@tonybodlovic5825 I'm the worst speller out of all of us sober so wouldn't even worry. Ben
I worked in a marina boat yard, and it is a definite no no to cross lines across a deck of a pontoon.
In one case I was told to re-fasten the owners boat correctly, not crossing the pontoon and as I was doing that the owner came out, started yelling at me, threatening me, etc. He was told to leave the marina and never come back and he had paid for a full month at the beginning of that month. No money was refunded and the word was sent out. This guy is an asshole and at that point, it became difficult for him to find another marina that would accept him
I can imagine you’ve had to deal with a lot of *unsavoury moments working in a marina 😅 if customer service is a hard job..customer service with yachties would be next level
I was shown how to tie up a 70' sail boat against a busy quayside, that brought all the knots on board but also kept all the lines out of the reach of drunks who like to untie your boat at night for a laugh.
Lol. You can always count on drunk people to mess things up for you.
I don't know why everyone uses a bowline where a round turn and 2 (or 3) half hitches is far a superior and simpler knot, just my 2 penneth
HI, thanks for the comment. Round turn and two half hitch is absolutely solid and good. The main purpose of the vid is just intended for where a cleat will be shared by two boats and trying to make space for the other guy (which isn't often for us). But absolutely, we will also use a round turn and two half hitches. Thanks again :)
In places where you are concerned about who has access to the lines, a bowline is harder to undo under load than a round turn and two half hitches. Not that this helps with breast ropes, of course. I generally do bowlines with a round turn, but you have a point.
@@richardfortescue5583 Thats true. You couldn't release a bowline under load and in the circumstance shown, the other end of the bowline would be made off on a deck cleat, a round turn and two half hitches can be released on the dock. The main purpose of the vid is just to show ways to share a cleat for boats coming in so one ever hinders other boats. Thanks for adding that.
@@theincompetentcrew to be fair I went down to our marina where we have a shared cleat with the next boat and the pair of us have been fumbling about doing figure eights on top of each other and apologising profusely every time in the best English manner, and I took yours and my advice and through the line through the cleat and did the round turn so that we can now both leave the dock without further awkwardness :D
@@hatatfatcat What is life without continuous apologizing to each other each day. Maybe it even adds to the experience?
You should never tie a boat up with a bowline as the knot cannot be released when under load. Always use hitches
Hi just, I will just clarify, the other end on deck would be done off with a cleat hitch or similar, so can be released from on deck. A round turn and two HH could be used also. An eye over the horns equally would be made off on deck to a cleat or similar.
Putting the black eye on top of the white eye (ua-cam.com/video/F864eD4oc1Q/v-deo.htmlsi=MRvjrRnMFthjFbiI&t=108) doesn't create a problem. The white eye can still be pull trough the black one, then over the cleat to free it. Actually the first configuration is what you'd get if the boat with the white eye came second and put the eye on as you showed to create the second configuration. I do not see any difference.
Hi casybond. Most the time it doesn't make too much difference. But if the 2nd line placed on top is loaded tight, it can form a trap for the first line that can be awkward to remove (try it with a couple of dockines and a friend keeping one tight). Depending on the boat it can either- easily pulled through, or if a larger boat, makes it a pinchy heave to pull the first line through and becomes bit of a finger trap. The larger the boat the more important it becomes to do. And if its done, avoids the problem most of the time making it quicker and easier to remove.
@@theincompetentcrew Thanks for the reply. Valid point about size of boat. Yes, I plan to try it out because it's easy to get things wrong with ropes.
Are you complaining you better teach ...good job
Cheers! 😁
I'm terrible at teaching.... I better just become a youtuber.
Teach how to eye-splice an eye, so you close up onboard. Equally, the use of mooring springs in tidal extremes.
@@JelMain Sure, I can do some videos on those topics! Keep an eye out :)
Ooh, by the way, this isn't 'courtesy', far from it, it's very much the correct way to do it, by the book you might say. Add how to moor to rings, that foxes most yachtsmen....
Thanks for commenting. I figured calling it courtesy is a nice gentle way to suggest it. And noted, I shall have to find some rings first though. I can't think of any coming up in the next week or two (there were back up the coast). But we will see.
This is the problem with amateur 'yotties', even those who have been sailing for 50 years, they don't get the chance to learn basic seamanship, particularly Americans! The number of bad moorings I've seen Yanks do....
I've spent most of my sailing career in tall ships and big gaff rigged vessels, you have to do it the correct way and the correct way, which most Americans don't seem to have grasped, is you only put the end of your warp ashore, (or double it back onboard) the rest stays onboard not get coiled down on the pontoon!
Good video, I'm looking forward to reading all the comments, I bet there will be an American or three who will challenge what you're saying!
Hi Jonathan, I hope you follow along and give me useful hints when I get things wrong. Experience is always appreciated. More videos to come. Ben :)
Must have been a pretty exciting career sailing tall ships, a really connection to history and the elements. I've been on a couple in port, but never crewed. Hope I get the chance at some point.