Just installed mine and I need to go look at the cam washers again. I'm going to measure mine as well to the frame points like you did to make sure each side is the same. Thanks for the information! EDIT: Amazoned one of those little angle tools too. Brilliant.
You can add a 'caster bolt kit', or, they actually make offset upper ball-joints and for some applications you can install adjustable upper ball-joints. I'm a retired mechanic. I was a certified undercar specialist. Toward the end of my career I was an instructor for the company I was working for and taught techs about 'all things' alignments. You want at least 4.5° of positive caster. This fellow has 5°. Right on the edge of acceptable. If it were my rig, I would have used the caster adjusters to set my pinion angle correct so my front drive shaft u-joints don't wear out prematurely, then measure the caster angle the way he did, then buy what ever ball-joint I needed to set my caster at 6° on the driver side and 6.25-6.5° passenger side. They make offset ball-joints with different degrees of offset. A vehicle will pull to the side with the LEAST amount of caster. So, to compensate for "Road Crown" (all roads are designed with 2° of road crown so rain water will run from the highpoint of the road in the center to the shoulder and into the ditch) you want to set your caster lower on the driver side to fight the natural tendency of your rig to creep 'downhill' toward the shoulder. But, if you put in more than a 1/2° split side-to-side, you'll over compensate and have a rig that drifts across the centerline and into oncoming traffic. A 1/4° to 1/2° difference side to side, with the lower measurement on the driver side, is just about perfect for ANY vehicle. You get it set up like that and you'll have a rig where you can let go of the steering wheel, on a straight smooth road, and it will go nice and straight for a good half mile before it gradually starts to creep over to the shoulder.
Not sure why I didn't decide to review and do research on this topic before. Long story short, I'm already 2k in and still have the same issue. This problem ruined my tires and I ended up paying about $500 in "alignment fees." Lesson learned, thank you so much for this information.
Same here wish I would’ve seen this video before ,, I adjusted my caster yesterday and installed new adjustable upper and lower control arms and it fixed the issue , very happy ,
Great video. I have a 3.5 " Rubicon Express Super Flex lift with Falcon 3.3 shocks. I put it in myself but didn't know I had to adjust the caster/pinion angle and the driveshaft tore up the boot being at a bad angle. It took about 2 years for it to happen though. I just put in a new Rough Country front drive shaft and I'm starting to hear and feel a slight vibration at highway speeds. Good thing I have adjustable control arms to fix the problem. BTW, another cause of flighty steering is too much tire pressure. On my Jeep, I am running 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers. The stock recommendation for 35 PSI is too much for these tires and I will be all over the road at high speed. I am currently running 28 - 30 PSI and the problem went away. I have a programmer to change the tire pressure so the light will go away.
I have 2 inch mopar lift..comes with longer control arms. plus i have 2 inches leveler front. My caster is 5.2 and all parts are tight no play. And it drives perfect. No dead wobble at any speed. People bash on adjustable track bar bushing. I contacted the compagny after reading all bad comments. They told me they improuved the busing but also people dont install with proper geometry then blame rough country
Perfect video on this. I am a huge Jeep guy and I am very mechanical, but I have no experience with caster. I just bought a 2010 JK unlimited sahara with what i believe is a 4” RC lift (it has 35’s on it). It is deadly. All over the road in town…but on the highway it’s perfect. I have owned many Jeeps including multiple JK’s 2008, 2010 and 2018 all new. They drove great. My wife has a 2018 two door sport that is like new so I’m about to go measure it…but this used 2010 I bought is just dangerous. I’m going to go review exactly what you just showed and I was looking for a simple explanation as to what to look for. Thank you!!
Thanks for the kind words. Also make sure to check all the ball joints, tie rod ends, track bar bushings, drag link bushings and wheel bearings for any play. Once you put 35's on it really starts to exaggerate everything. Also I'd recommend measuring the castor angle at the flat spot next to the diff cover. There are 6 degrees of separation between the pinon and ball joint C's.
@@vegasfordguy Ok, just reviewed and compared to my wife's original 2018 (might be different between 2010 and 2018) but the angle both top and bottom of the passenger side is 4.5 degrees and the drivers side is 5.5. My wife's 2018 stock (with optional 31" BFG AT) are 5.5 exactly on both sides. So the obvious question is: would a degree difference between ends make a significant difference in drivability? My wife also made a good point: it drives down the highway great so it "drives" fine, but in town and on bumpy or curvy roads it "handles" like complete s*** and is deadly. So there is a difference between "drivability" and "handling" for sure. Track bar is in place with bushings that look ok. I did notice there is a rough country pitman arm and the stock steering stabilizer has been relocated above the tie rod (compared to my wife's). You can see the original mounting location for the steering stabilizer and the holes which caught my attention. I need to make a video ha! I wish I knew how to determine which lift is on the jeep. The springs and shocks are silver, but other than the pitman arm I have no identification. I do not like assuming. Also, the lower control arms are solid with non-adjustable bolts, but look to be aftermarket (tubular or round instead of square like my wife's, but not sure if that was a 2010 thing?). There is no drop brackets on the control arms and I was really hoping the angle of the caster was going to be in the 1's and that would be the obvious problem, but now I'm not sure and more confused. I cannot for the life of me figure out why the passenger side would be a degree different than the drivers considering the arms and bolts are not adjustable?? I have not tested ball joints or tie rod ends yet, but will. Everything looks really good honestly. Steering wheel is off though so will probably do a front end alignment first and see what those numbers are...
So did you figure it out? I have the had the same exact problem . on the highway is excellent but on the streets it’s crap and is affected really bad by uneven surfaces
My jk is set to 3.8 degrees according to my last alignment. It was 3.6. Seems low having a 4" lift. Jeep is definitely flighty. I'm going to try and adjust. Great video!
I know that flighty feeling you speak of. I find myself sometimes correcting an over correction from the steering wheel trying to hold it straight in the road lol kinda scary to be going 70 and your rig just decided to go in another direction. I bought a jku Sahara with a 3.5" zone lift it also has 2 steering stabilizers on them. I need to fix the flight problem quickly
Just a note, steering stabilizers do not contributes to either flighty feeling or death wobble. They just dampen the roughness coming in from the terrain. As described by Desert Explorer 302, it's the caster angle, how well the track bar is centered, toe-in of the front wheels and all bolts are within torqued specs. I was facing the same problem on my 2008 JKUR and went thru the same exercises to get it fixed. Very nice video by the way!
I couldn’t get a good ride over sharp bumps even with the caster at 4.5 degrees with adjustable lower control arms at 2.5 inch lift. May be larger tyres could help. I went with geometry correction brackets and there is no more bump steer. Down side there is some lost of clearance. I can now control it much better at speed on multiple hash bumps around a bend where as before I would really have to hang on and fight with the steering wheel. It just depended on the type of bump. Caster looks like 5.2 degrees with geometry brackets set to the middle location on the upper control arms. Having the lower control arms parallel to the ground is what made a difference for road use.
Great video explanation and good advice. I purchased an old ZJ and it had worn track bar and BJ's and it had DW very bad. I replaced ALL the front end components including 4 OE control arms and added 4 new OE springs but included a Rough Country 2" lift with shocks and 2 months later DW came back. I'm certain it's the alignment especially the castor after researching the geometry changes even a small lift can create. I'm on my 2nd track bar already. Next step is a Kevins oversize track bar bolt kit, their HD dampener. and an alignment with extra castor on the side if possible. Thanks for sharing.
This is fantastic information. Thanks for sharing! A few questions, I commonly see the Cam Bolts on the axle end and yours are on the frame end? Who is right and who is wrong? Also, when looking for your target camber I assume the whole vehicle has to be level, so does this mean put it all back together and set it on the ground and hope its close? If not jack it back up and do it all over again or is there a reference angle you can use and just do the math on it? Cheers!
Yes, pretty much everything was loose though, nothing was anywhere near torqued. Between that, the bad wheel.bearings and cupped tires it was a white knuckle experience driving it home at 70 MPH. I've got everything dialed in now.
You can add a 'caster bolt kit', or, they actually make offset upper ball-joints and for some applications you can install adjustable upper ball-joints. I'm a retired mechanic. I was a certified undercar specialist. Toward the end of my career I was an instructor for the company I was working for and taught techs about 'all things' alignments. You want at least 4.5° of positive caster. This fellow has 5°. Right on the edge of acceptable. If it were my rig, I would have used the caster adjusters to set my pinion angle correct so my front drive shaft u-joints don't wear out prematurely, then measure the caster angle the way he did, then buy what ever ball-joint I needed to set my caster at 6° on the driver side and 6.25-6.5° passenger side. They make offset ball-joints with different degrees of offset. A vehicle will pull to the side with the LEAST amount of caster. So, to compensate for "Road Crown" (all roads are designed with 2° of road crown so rain water will run from the highpoint of the road in the center to the shoulder and into the ditch) you want to set your caster lower on the driver side to fight the natural tendency of your rig to creep 'downhill' toward the shoulder. But, if you put in more than a 1/2° split side-to-side, you'll over compensate and have a rig that drifts across the centerline and into oncoming traffic. A 1/4° to 1/2° difference side to side, with the lower measurement on the driver side, is just about perfect for ANY vehicle. You get it set up like that and you'll have a rig where you can let go of the steering wheel, on a straight smooth road, and it will go nice and straight for a good half mile before it gradually starts to creep over to the shoulder.
You can get the digital angle finder at harbor freight for like 30$. If you’re talking about the brackets. They are called geometry correction brackets. Google will be able to pull up a few options.
Just installed mine and I need to go look at the cam washers again. I'm going to measure mine as well to the frame points like you did to make sure each side is the same. Thanks for the information! EDIT: Amazoned one of those little angle tools too. Brilliant.
You can add a 'caster bolt kit', or, they actually make offset upper ball-joints and for some applications you can install adjustable upper ball-joints. I'm a retired mechanic. I was a certified undercar specialist. Toward the end of my career I was an instructor for the company I was working for and taught techs about 'all things' alignments. You want at least 4.5° of positive caster. This fellow has 5°. Right on the edge of acceptable. If it were my rig, I would have used the caster adjusters to set my pinion angle correct so my front drive shaft u-joints don't wear out prematurely, then measure the caster angle the way he did, then buy what ever ball-joint I needed to set my caster at 6° on the driver side and 6.25-6.5° passenger side. They make offset ball-joints with different degrees of offset. A vehicle will pull to the side with the LEAST amount of caster. So, to compensate for "Road Crown" (all roads are designed with 2° of road crown so rain water will run from the highpoint of the road in the center to the shoulder and into the ditch) you want to set your caster lower on the driver side to fight the natural tendency of your rig to creep 'downhill' toward the shoulder. But, if you put in more than a 1/2° split side-to-side, you'll over compensate and have a rig that drifts across the centerline and into oncoming traffic. A 1/4° to 1/2° difference side to side, with the lower measurement on the driver side, is just about perfect for ANY vehicle. You get it set up like that and you'll have a rig where you can let go of the steering wheel, on a straight smooth road, and it will go nice and straight for a good half mile before it gradually starts to creep over to the shoulder.
Your use of the angle meter is genius!
Not sure why I didn't decide to review and do research on this topic before. Long story short, I'm already 2k in and still have the same issue. This problem ruined my tires and I ended up paying about $500 in "alignment fees." Lesson learned, thank you so much for this information.
Same here wish I would’ve seen this video before ,, I adjusted my caster yesterday and installed new adjustable upper and lower control arms and it fixed the issue , very happy ,
Watched a heap of videos this one finally answered my questions... 5 -6 degrees- thank you
Great video. I have a 3.5 " Rubicon Express Super Flex lift with Falcon 3.3 shocks. I put it in myself but didn't know I had to adjust the caster/pinion angle and the driveshaft tore up the boot being at a bad angle. It took about 2 years for it to happen though. I just put in a new Rough Country front drive shaft and I'm starting to hear and feel a slight vibration at highway speeds. Good thing I have adjustable control arms to fix the problem.
BTW, another cause of flighty steering is too much tire pressure. On my Jeep, I am running 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers. The stock recommendation for 35 PSI is too much for these tires and I will be all over the road at high speed. I am currently running 28 - 30 PSI and the problem went away. I have a programmer to change the tire pressure so the light will go away.
Excellent video. I have been looking for a video to tell me the direction and location to measure caster. Thank you my UA-cam friend.
Hope it helped.
I have 2 inch mopar lift..comes with longer control arms. plus i have 2 inches leveler front. My caster is 5.2 and all parts are tight no play. And it drives perfect. No dead wobble at any speed. People bash on adjustable track bar bushing. I contacted the compagny after reading all bad comments. They told me they improuved the busing but also people dont install with proper geometry then blame rough country
Perfect video on this. I am a huge Jeep guy and I am very mechanical, but I have no experience with caster. I just bought a 2010 JK unlimited sahara with what i believe is a 4” RC lift (it has 35’s on it). It is deadly. All over the road in town…but on the highway it’s perfect. I have owned many Jeeps including multiple JK’s 2008, 2010 and 2018 all new. They drove great. My wife has a 2018 two door sport that is like new so I’m about to go measure it…but this used 2010 I bought is just dangerous. I’m going to go review exactly what you just showed and I was looking for a simple explanation as to what to look for. Thank you!!
Thanks for the kind words. Also make sure to check all the ball joints, tie rod ends, track bar bushings, drag link bushings and wheel bearings for any play. Once you put 35's on it really starts to exaggerate everything. Also I'd recommend measuring the castor angle at the flat spot next to the diff cover. There are 6 degrees of separation between the pinon and ball joint C's.
@@vegasfordguy Ok, just reviewed and compared to my wife's original 2018 (might be different between 2010 and 2018) but the angle both top and bottom of the passenger side is 4.5 degrees and the drivers side is 5.5. My wife's 2018 stock (with optional 31" BFG AT) are 5.5 exactly on both sides. So the obvious question is: would a degree difference between ends make a significant difference in drivability? My wife also made a good point: it drives down the highway great so it "drives" fine, but in town and on bumpy or curvy roads it "handles" like complete s*** and is deadly. So there is a difference between "drivability" and "handling" for sure. Track bar is in place with bushings that look ok. I did notice there is a rough country pitman arm and the stock steering stabilizer has been relocated above the tie rod (compared to my wife's). You can see the original mounting location for the steering stabilizer and the holes which caught my attention. I need to make a video ha! I wish I knew how to determine which lift is on the jeep. The springs and shocks are silver, but other than the pitman arm I have no identification. I do not like assuming. Also, the lower control arms are solid with non-adjustable bolts, but look to be aftermarket (tubular or round instead of square like my wife's, but not sure if that was a 2010 thing?). There is no drop brackets on the control arms and I was really hoping the angle of the caster was going to be in the 1's and that would be the obvious problem, but now I'm not sure and more confused. I cannot for the life of me figure out why the passenger side would be a degree different than the drivers considering the arms and bolts are not adjustable?? I have not tested ball joints or tie rod ends yet, but will. Everything looks really good honestly. Steering wheel is off though so will probably do a front end alignment first and see what those numbers are...
So did you figure it out? I have the had the same exact problem . on the highway is excellent but on the streets it’s crap and is affected really bad by uneven surfaces
My jk is set to 3.8 degrees according to my last alignment. It was 3.6. Seems low having a 4" lift. Jeep is definitely flighty. I'm going to try and adjust. Great video!
Very informative! Thank you for this video!
Really good information here thanks
Very informative. Thank you.
Great video very well explained ty
Interesting and informative
I know that flighty feeling you speak of. I find myself sometimes correcting an over correction from the steering wheel trying to hold it straight in the road lol kinda scary to be going 70 and your rig just decided to go in another direction. I bought a jku Sahara with a 3.5" zone lift it also has 2 steering stabilizers on them. I need to fix the flight problem quickly
Just a note, steering stabilizers do not contributes to either flighty feeling or death wobble. They just dampen the roughness coming in from the terrain. As described by Desert Explorer 302, it's the caster angle, how well the track bar is centered, toe-in of the front wheels and all bolts are within torqued specs. I was facing the same problem on my 2008 JKUR and went thru the same exercises to get it fixed.
Very nice video by the way!
rough country is great ive had sveral lifts from them my lift on my xj before i went to tons was a rough country 4 inch
Grasias mi Amigo..
I couldn’t get a good ride over sharp bumps even with the caster at 4.5 degrees with adjustable lower control arms at 2.5 inch lift. May be larger tyres could help. I went with geometry correction brackets and there is no more bump steer. Down side there is some lost of clearance. I can now control it much better at speed on multiple hash bumps around a bend where as before I would really have to hang on and fight with the steering wheel. It just depended on the type of bump. Caster looks like 5.2 degrees with geometry brackets set to the middle location on the upper control arms. Having the lower control arms parallel to the ground is what made a difference for road use.
Great video explanation and good advice. I purchased an old ZJ and it had worn track bar and BJ's and it had DW very bad. I replaced ALL the front end components including 4 OE control arms and added 4 new OE springs but included a Rough Country 2" lift with shocks and 2 months later DW came back. I'm certain it's the alignment especially the castor after researching the geometry changes even a small lift can create. I'm on my 2nd track bar already. Next step is a Kevins oversize track bar bolt kit, their HD dampener. and an alignment with extra castor on the side if possible. Thanks for sharing.
Have the same kit but the upper bracket also has caster bolts
7 is great on a lift with like 37s my cherokee with one tons had about 8
This is fantastic information. Thanks for sharing! A few questions, I commonly see the Cam Bolts on the axle end and yours are on the frame end? Who is right and who is wrong? Also, when looking for your target camber I assume the whole vehicle has to be level, so does this mean put it all back together and set it on the ground and hope its close? If not jack it back up and do it all over again or is there a reference angle you can use and just do the math on it?
Cheers!
Your right
Does this change the camber angel as well? My JK has a pretty noticeable negative camber after I lifted it 3".
Looks like it was installed correctly 👍
Was it on there (the lift) when you bought it
Yes, pretty much everything was loose though, nothing was anywhere near torqued. Between that, the bad wheel.bearings and cupped tires it was a white knuckle experience driving it home at 70 MPH. I've got everything dialed in now.
Im at 4.5 and mine feels sketchy still
Is there a way to adjust the caster with stock arms?
You can add a 'caster bolt kit', or, they actually make offset upper ball-joints and for some applications you can install adjustable upper ball-joints. I'm a retired mechanic. I was a certified undercar specialist. Toward the end of my career I was an instructor for the company I was working for and taught techs about 'all things' alignments. You want at least 4.5° of positive caster. This fellow has 5°. Right on the edge of acceptable. If it were my rig, I would have used the caster adjusters to set my pinion angle correct so my front drive shaft u-joints don't wear out prematurely, then measure the caster angle the way he did, then buy what ever ball-joint I needed to set my caster at 6° on the driver side and 6.25-6.5° passenger side. They make offset ball-joints with different degrees of offset. A vehicle will pull to the side with the LEAST amount of caster. So, to compensate for "Road Crown" (all roads are designed with 2° of road crown so rain water will run from the highpoint of the road in the center to the shoulder and into the ditch) you want to set your caster lower on the driver side to fight the natural tendency of your rig to creep 'downhill' toward the shoulder. But, if you put in more than a 1/2° split side-to-side, you'll over compensate and have a rig that drifts across the centerline and into oncoming traffic. A 1/4° to 1/2° difference side to side, with the lower measurement on the driver side, is just about perfect for ANY vehicle. You get it set up like that and you'll have a rig where you can let go of the steering wheel, on a straight smooth road, and it will go nice and straight for a good half mile before it gradually starts to creep over to the shoulder.
@@RANDOMNATION907 I did buy some indexing washers but don't see any videos on how to install them so I'm just gonna figure it out myself
What’s link to purchase this
Did you do anything for the rear control arms
Anyone else notice the loose wheel weight at 1:32?
That's Discount Tire right there, can't balance anything right!
can this trpe of gauge compensate for drive way slant ?
You can get the digital angle finder at harbor freight for like 30$. If you’re talking about the brackets. They are called geometry correction brackets. Google will be able to pull up a few options.
My kit didn’t come with them brackets
It depends on the kit you choose, they go from extremely basic to including everything with a few options in between.
JEEP: If You Think You Have It Adjusted Right & Still Have Money For Gas, You Haven't Overpaid For Enough Overpriced Bolts And Drop Brackets
Kkkkķkkķkkķkķķ