Hydrogen is NOT 13 dollars a KG! Here in CA the only place you can buy it to fill your vehicle it’s 36!!!! It would cost 2100 dollars to fill that truck. When it’s actually available. Half the stations in CA are not working at any given time and there’s only 60.
@@hanswitvliet8188and?!!!! So what? The Netherlands will not make or break what happens to hydrogen transportation. Here in the massive US market the Mirai is an abject failure after 12 years on the market. Nikola is failing before it gets started.
Hydrogen vehicles are: 1) More expensive to build than an EV. 2) More expensive to fuel than an EV. 3) More expensive to maintain than an EV. Akio Toyoda wasted billions pursuing hydrogen because he didn't understand economics and basic physics.
Agree with points 1 thru 3 and completely disagree with your last bit.. He knows exactly what is going on but is trying to delay/stop the growth of electric vehicles which is a technology Toyota does not dominate or control. Unfortunately he seems to be dragging the rest of the Japanese auto industry and Japan itself down with him on this folly.
@@erktrek "Agree with points 1 thru 3 and completely disagree with your last bit.." Why? It's obvious that he don't understand basic physics and economics. "He knows exactly what is going on but is trying to delay/stop the growth of electric vehicles which is a technology Toyota does not dominate or control. " If he knew exactly what he was doing Toyota would have been the leader in the industry. Now they are the clown instead.
It is crazy for Toyota to say 600 miles battery is coming and yet hydrogen is still a priority. And worst, people and shareholders believe them. The contradiction is beyond obvious. At 600 miles battery will make hydrogen complete waste and obsolete.
@@Myrslokstok "@mmanjin strong leaders lead in the wrong direction noone allowed to question it! It is going to bancrupt Toyota, and the carindustry and Japan!" That's not a strong leader.
Key is you can re-charge almost anywhere, while un loading etc. - with hydrogen it's a bit of a project driving to a hydrogen filling station every trip.
Tesla Semi production of 50k a year will destroy Freightliner in 1 year. Freightliner, the largest semi manufacturer in the US, only sells 90k class 8 semi trucks a year! Imagine losing 50% of your sales in a single year to a competitor that did not exist the year before.
Lars, good day from Goonellabah, NSW, Australia. I have proposed 250 passive houses, 160,000 m2 tracking PV and 65 MW Tesla batteries. The total cost is AUS1,5 billion. It did not go. ahead. I am embarking on a significant six-month journey. I'll be circumnavigating Australia in two CYBERTRUCKs and a Tesla Semi, covering a substantial 22,000 kilometres. This journey is set to commence at the end of September 2025. Elon will help me - 🤗Cheers, Ian Cleland
Toyoda is a destructive imbecile. I can only imagine that he hates his family and is actively trying to destroy their legacy. No one is that dumb... outside of California.
Only water coming out of the exhaust.... sounds good, right ? Except in sub-zero conditions -- you get ice on the road - not so good. So a whole system is required to keep the water warm, and then release it over a drain...
Wowee, no one could have possibly seen that one coming, except for like the super genius types who are regularly right about the sun rising and setting and that kind of thing.
Here's an uncomfortable fact from the department of physics. 1 gallon of gasoline has the same BTU output as 7 gallons of liquid hydrogen. In other words, a 15 gallon tank of gas would need to be replaced by a 105 gallon, vacuum insulated tank of liquid hydrogen. And it has to be kept below minus 423°F Pressurized gas is much less dense even yet. Again, this is nature, reality, physics, and can never be change by any kind of engineering or marketing.
Hydrogen has an annoying ability to escape its confinement, too. It's super tiny and can go through metal (ask rocket engineers!). Also, with Hydrogen, you need a distribution network, but with electricity, we already have that and it's easy to transfer that energy anywhere in the world. No trucks or pipelines involved.
Even an idiot like me knew this was coming due to thermodynamics, it's basic science and economics. People complain about education today but these old people (me including) had an obviously underwhelming education. Luckily for me I knew that and have tried to continue education throughout my life, although I know I'm still a Cockwomble. I remember an interview with a Professor that was instrumental in increasing higher education in his country. The hope was not just helping the economy but more educated people would be better at life choices in general. This didn't happen people still made bad decisions but were more arrogant with it.
It is so incredibly sad to see what has happened to Toyota over the last 15 years... they used to be one of the most innovative firms in the world, having a true long-term mindset. Shoichiro Toyota's 100-year plan is no more. Great video, Lars!
Musk has described hydrogen fuel cells as "extremely silly" and "mind-bogglingly stupid." He has criticized the use of hydrogen for energy storage, calling it "the most dumb thing I could possibly imagine for energy storage" during an interview at the Financial Times Future of the Car summit in May 2022
HFC looks so good on paper. Your only exhaust is steam. But when you factor in all of the physics that can't be solved it was DOA from the start. The best thing hydrogen had going for it is it maintained the same business model. People come to our business, stand outside (in whatever weather) transferring 'fuel', then pay lots of money.
Toyota is the largest auto industry funder of climate deniers and I’ve often wondered was Toyota, as the largest and most influential oem, promising hydrogen cars were the true alternative to ice cars all this time as a way to distract buyers and other oems from considering EVs?
The Hindeberg worked great. Hydrogen is da bomb. (I actually love hydrogen in general though. It's literally protons. It's what mitochondria turbines run on.)
ROFLMAO. Toyota have lost the plot! What the hell were they thinking! Will I miss Toyota if they go down the gurgler? No, not for a second. The Toyota of twenty or thirty years ago was a very different company to the Toyota of today. They actually DESERVE to go belly up.
Hyjijen? You're not the only one who pronounces it this way, of course. I saw a Sabine Hossenfelder video recently, who is German, I believe and pronounces it similarly. Fascinating.
Could you imagine how far the Tesla Simi would go with a megapac on a trailer jumped to the truck? I’m certain that it would be more than the hydrogen truck with all of the extra tanks.
Once upon a time the goal was to replace gasoline fuel with a superior fuel. Hydrogen was an alternative fuel to consider. Electrification makes all "burn something" fuel obsolete.
"Yes, hydrogen fuel cells produce pure water as exhaust. But realize, that's because what goes in is also required to be very pure." Yeah if you increase the emissions and emit it elsewhere you can brag about having only water as exhaust.
Keep up the good work at Best in Tesla! Over 85% of hydrogen produced now is extracted from methane at oil refineries. Hydrogen gas produced by oil companies can contain up to 15% methane. All hydrogen used in combustion engines produce N2O nitrous oxide which is a green hose gas. If it has a tail pipe there is combustion. You can make electricity from hydrogen without combustion of air which is 84% nitrogen but that would be really expensive. With all the fracking going on there is a huge surplus of "natural gas" which is really just methane. To extract hydrogen from water using electricity is not the way oil companies get their hydrogen! This is my understanding am I far off Lars?
Yep, hydrogen vehicles are promoted by the petroleum industry. Tells you everything right there. Just another way to keep us burning their products that does not solve the carbon emissions problem.
How many hundreds of billions of dollars will it cost to build the hydrogen distribution system? A thing can be beautiful and all that. If something is not cheap enough to be used by tens of millions of people, it remains a toy of the rich people. Hydrogen has the classic chicken and egg problem. If someone does not invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the system, there will be no large scale usage by regular people. If there is no large scale usage by millions of regular people, nobody will invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the distribution system.
Odds of hydrogen tanks exploding are not very high, but if it happened the hydrogen would insta freeze a decent sized area, unless something caught the gas on fire…I think the more likely scenario is the battery pack catching on fire, heating the hydrogen tank and rapidly increasing the gas pressure until the tank pressure release valve opens and turns the tank into a really great flame thrower.
Toyota used to be such a great car company. The persistent incompetence of their CEO has doomed it through too many irrational decisions. This is what happens when you don't have people at the top who understand the physics.
But hydrogen is not the fuel. It is more like the transmission wires taking electricity from a coal burning power station, but much worse. Generate solar power electricity and send an electric field down a conductor where, at a million Volts DC, it flys ten thousand miles to transformers, into the battery on the vehicle. Hydrogen replaced the wires with absurdly dangerous explosively combustible , batteries,bank trucks and leaking pipes. Either made by natural gas, or electricity. One is now simple and safe.
Toyota is still working on hydrogen drive trains because the government is still providing funding. They need to add NACS/CCS2 to make it a plug-in hybrid 😅
They need to can the truck idea immediately... It's desperation and clutching at straws as they thought Tesla was a joke, direct from plant managers mouth of the diesel company I work for
Hydrogen only really makes sense for planes and boats. Building out an infrastructure for them would be far easier and they are the two things where the weight of batteries make electric not an option.
I look forward to reading "Fuel cell is a fool's cell". How Toyoda destroyed the Japanese auto industry because of a butt hurt. They even tried to rope South Korea.
First green energy cannot cost three time because sun and wind are free of charge so the PV outlet DC kWh cost almost NOTHING , less than two cents and the three times more kWh like 50 for 100 kms can be stored to match production with demand time wise for a fraction of this, since bottle cost nothing compared to lithium batteries and take minimum ten times more cycles. The cost to store clean sun electricity to recharge at night plus a power network to cope with all this is by far more than 3 times more. So economical efficiencies from well to wheel must be calculated and not with retail selling price of H2 but green H2 current cost of production , Lhyfe sell 5€/kg already so less than 5$ for 100 kms, Current conversion of oil cracking steel decarbonisation and fertiliser production from grey to green and blue H2 due to war time LNG technical, economical issues and Russian natural gas shortage causes definitly some transient disruptions for the 120 millions tons per annum of H2 produced. The non steady supply like clean mobility, with insane retail H2 prices and no open competition are being ignored. Yet, anyone with surface renewables sun and wind emergy can produce store use and sell green H2, but the production of systems is not yet geared up to massive and robotised H2 systems production yet, except for PV panels . Once the peak of transition to green will be over, the cost of green H2 cost can only go down very significantly since PV, COPV, PEM electolysers and fuel cells with less Pt. and more Ni. cost less and less with also less dirty grey energy for mining and production. Now will selling prices follow the lower cost ? most likely in an open competitive and fair trade market for clean energy and real issue are political not technical not economical…Can Elon stop a moving à clean H2 train with dirty smoke screens? Maybe not ::read the complete Hyundai Kia point of view on H2 that Hyundai VP Changhwan Kim concluded end 2024 by this statement,: “ Imagine what we can do while being now the third car mfrs worldwide, with our partners , our strategy and vehicles like the INITIUM “ .( I,e the new Hyundai H2 car) . He seems very optimistic about clean light economical and low grey energy mobility’s future,,with green H2 of course.😂 LOL.😂
It’s not accurate to describe one truck as electric and one as hydrogen. They both are electric it’s just that Tesla gets its electricity from batteries and hydrogen fueled trucks have a fuel cell that transforms hydrogen into electricity.
How much hydrogen do you get back if you drive a long Downhill? The Electric Regen gives you Bonus energy ! Less of a saving on flat roads sure but the Hydrogen Truck doesn’t offer such extras as regen …. How many Hydrogen Stations are there in the World? I guess it doesn’t matter if they could even build and sell hydrogen cars Cheaper, fuel costs and obtain ability are the Dealbreaker . If the truck is seven times the cost to fill with hydrogen then you’d have to be mad to go in that direction …
Compressed natural gas makes more sense than hydrogen, especially when hydrogen is > 90% made from natural gas. CNG has a higher volumetric energy density than compressed hydrogen. This means that for a given volume, CNG can store more energy, which is advantageous in applications where space is a constraint, like in vehicles. Compressed Hydrogen (CH): When compressed to around 700 bar (10,000 psi), hydrogen has a volumetric energy density of approximately 4.5 MJ/L or 1.25 kWh/L. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG): Typically compressed to 200-250 bar (3,000-3,600 psi), CNG has a volumetric energy density of about 9 MJ/L or 2.5 kWh/L. IMO BEV are the far better choice especially when cost and maintenance are considered
Compressed anything does not sound like a good fit for vehicles prone to crashing. Maybe sometime in a future where everything is autonomous but agree battery tech is a far better and safer solution.
Toyota were never an inventor or leader in advances in car technology They’re copiers They copied everything others did but did it better with ‘just in time’ parts supplying and strict quality control and focus on reliability so they made reliable boring vehicles for decades and dominated the world Now they’re trying to be better than Tesla but they’re not as good as Tesla and don’t have the talent They’re using FAW EV and GAC ev with CATL batteries in their Toyota Ev’s so are basically badge engineering those Chinese partner brands and still can’t make a good EV so they’re trying to stop others buying better ev than what they make by talking about hybrids and selling loads of them with previous century technology and talking about Hydrogen Toyota. You should stick to copying leaders but copy Tesla like XPeng do then you will make a good ev 🎉
It should take only five minutes and common sense to know that hydrogen car cannot possibly work. Hydrogen may be a solution in other arena, but not for the automobile. Why? How many hundreds of billions of dollars would it cost build new hydrogen production plants, fleet of trucks to transport the hydrogen to the refueling stations, and the tens of thousands of hydrogen refueling stations. Hydrogen car has the classic chicken and egg problem.. No cars and nobody would invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the refueling system. No refueling system and nobody would buy the car. It helps to understand how the gasoline refueling stations got built. The first major product of the oil industry was kerosene, sold in cana via general stores. Kerosene was used for lightning and cooking. The system of general stores had been around for three thousand years. When gas burning cars came along, the general stores close to weslthy neighborhood just stocked a few cans of gasoline. The profit financed the expansion. When the sales volume got big enough, the general store became the gas station. Electric vehicles works because the powe plant and electric wires had already spread all over the world without EV. The charger is an appliance. The early buyer could afford buying the charger too. Most Norwegians charge their cars at home. Nobody had to build the entire electric cable system. Neither gasoline cars nor EV has the chicken and egg problem.
Toyota? Who dat? Oh, right... yeah that car company talking crazy shite about hydrogen cars and solid state batteries. Yeah, they went bankrupt back in '27. They're gone like the Dodo. Thanks
Looking at Toyota hydrogen so a couple of billion dollars in marketing and not forget marketer's not a big deal in big deal of things developing is a resource drain all this not comparable to the TIME wasted so late in the game you bet too late for come back no but and it's a big but it's going to cost Toyota mega mega dollars and then there's the time to do so sad having to start over.
I think that it is sad that the presenter is clearly cynical of the attempts of Toyota to perfect the technology as a realistic alternative to hydro carbon fuelled vehicles. We don’t need the chuckles! There are clearly issues with purely electric vehicles, and I am sure that many of us know people who are abandoning their Tesla’s and other electric vehicles and returning to either hybrids or indeed petrol! We need a number of options to solve global warming before we utilise the worlds lithium just to create batteries!
The current hope for electrifying the African subcontinent is "Distributed Renewable Energy"... This is where a few solar panels here and there will provide low voltage lighting and the ability to recharge a phone... But this approach cannot recharge a vehicle... Obviously hydrogen makes no sense at all in Japan, America or Europe, with all that excellent infrastructure we have... But hydrogen is, perhaps, the only practical renewable option for vehicles in Africa?
@@erktrek Remember, there are no transmission lines... You would have to have a solar farm at each of many thousands of charging stations across a vast continent... So that approach is far more daunting than you are thinking... Hydrogen is not a great solution, but maybe it's the only practical solution in Africa?
Solar could be put at each charging station very easily and very inexpensively. Way less than to run any type of electrical lines and way less expensive than hydrogen piping or trucking it.
Sorry you’re wrong! EV’s are a fail Hydrogen fueled ICE vehicles are the future with the new lower hydrogen cost and the lowering of the damage to the environment mining for precious metals for EV batteries.
Thanks for the continuous updates! All we need is the right advice on how to invest in crypto and we will be set for life, made $28,000 profit last week regardless of how bad it gets on the economy.
Same here, I believe the Bitcoin ETFs approval will be a life changing opportunity for us, with my current portfolio of $108,000 from my investments with my personal financial advisor < Mrs Linda Raschke> I totally agree with you
But using methanes is better from so many perspectives. The steel still need to have some carbon added. Don’t know if the carbon included in the methane molecule is enough but the H2 molecule contain no carbon. So…how is the carbon added?
@@yourcrazybear for ages coal has been used for the production of steel. It’s cheap, and no one knew it give a damn about the side effects. Any alternatives will be more expensive. Hence companies aren’t too eager to change. And it is not only about the CO2 emissions: not far from here, at the town of IJmuiden we have the TATA steel plant. The people living some miles around it live significantly shorter compared to those living further away. The TATA steel plant in Sweden is already switch from coal to hydrogen, the one in the UK appeared not to be viable. And a possible transition of the Dutch plant is under discussion. TATA expects huge subsidies from the government, with no guarantees of keeping the plant up. Of course, our government doesn’t give a damn about people’s health…
I suggest that the open minded among you to look into HPQ Silicon. They have point-of-use aluminum silicon alloy for on demand hydrogen generation. Presently being evaluated by the French military for field use.
The only thing I could find about hydrogen under Initiatives was the following: "Partnered with Novacium SAS, HPQ is developing a new autonomous process for making hydrogen via the electrolysis of silicon and other materials." Otherwise the site was promoting their battery tech? Maybe I missed something tho.
@ you are not the only one. Based on what was presented in that PR and its uniqueness and its potential TAM and possible applications take a long consideration. You might see the possibilities. Might. I prefer Trinity. Thank you.
@ I doubt that the French military are easy to dupe. While the financial are unknown the science is there and the patent office did a review and found no patents that are similar or an improvement on an existing patent. Time will define the questions. So I am willing to wait.
@@juliewow4504 Even if you were a free diver I wouldn’t suggest holding your breath. However, if you’d like a fun little googling into the science, look into the water problem with hydrogen. DOA. Also, if Toyota, you know, one of the biggest car companies in the world? a FOR PROFIT company, (unlike a not for profit military) got duped, what do you think the French military’s chances are?
Hydrogen is not good for cars but for freight, trucking, shipping, planes and most importantly for all heavy industries like ammonia and steel only hydrogen will work.... Hydrogen production is becoming cheaper and cheaper proven and the goal for next 3 years is $1 per kilo. Your exaggerating the cost and the green hydrogen has no pollution.... Companies like PLUG currently producing Green Hydrogen at cost of $5/kilo and they are bringing that cost down to $2/k with Tax credits and looking to bringing it to $1/kilo which will make it cheaper then electric
"Hydrogen is not good for cars but for freight, trucking, shipping, planes and most importantly for all heavy industries like ammonia and steel only hydrogen will work..." Planes? No hydrogen is not good here.
@@tubee69 Never going to happen. You cannot break the laws of physics no matter how much bullshit you throw at it. Haha. Hydrogen will not work anywhere. It’s a scam.
Could you imagine how far the Tesla Simi would go with a megapac on a trailer jumped to the truck? I’m certain that it would be more than the hydrogen truck with all of the extra tanks.
Hydrogen is NOT 13 dollars a KG! Here in CA the only place you can buy it to fill your vehicle it’s 36!!!! It would cost 2100 dollars to fill that truck. When it’s actually available. Half the stations in CA are not working at any given time and there’s only 60.
@@twothbeave in the Netherlands, the price of hydrogen varies from 18 to 25 per kg.
@@hanswitvliet8188and?!!!! So what? The Netherlands will not make or break what happens to hydrogen transportation. Here in the massive US market the Mirai is an abject failure after 12 years on the market. Nikola is failing before it gets started.
Hydrogen vehicles are:
1) More expensive to build than an EV.
2) More expensive to fuel than an EV.
3) More expensive to maintain than an EV.
Akio Toyoda wasted billions pursuing hydrogen because he didn't understand economics and basic physics.
Agree with points 1 thru 3 and completely disagree with your last bit.. He knows exactly what is going on but is trying to delay/stop the growth of electric vehicles which is a technology Toyota does not dominate or control. Unfortunately he seems to be dragging the rest of the Japanese auto industry and Japan itself down with him on this folly.
but the maintenance and service is a profit gold mine for these doomed corps 😂
also they wanted to control a supply chain for a consumable
@@erktrek "Agree with points 1 thru 3 and completely disagree with your last bit.."
Why? It's obvious that he don't understand basic physics and economics.
"He knows exactly what is going on but is trying to delay/stop the growth of electric vehicles which is a technology Toyota does not dominate or control. "
If he knew exactly what he was doing Toyota would have been the leader in the industry. Now they are the clown instead.
4)Most of all, it's dangerous. Hydrogen tanks are pressurized to 5000psi. Good luck driving around around with a time bomb.
No please don't send your hydrogen van to Australia! We don't want it!!! 🙅🏻♂️
Where is that 600 mile battery that Toyota has been talking about since 2016.
It is crazy for Toyota to say 600 miles battery is coming and yet hydrogen is still a priority. And worst, people and shareholders believe them. The contradiction is beyond obvious. At 600 miles battery will make hydrogen complete waste and obsolete.
Toy-o-da stopped working on the 600 mile battery and started working on the 10,000 mile solid state battery that they will produce in 2027!
It vapor battery just like there stupid hydrogen vehicles 😂
@@davidbeppler3032 LOL best joke of the day, you're too funny
@@davidbeppler3032is that the one theyve been promising for 5 plus years 🤷♂️
It only took a decade for the reality to sink in for Toyota. 😂
@@mmanjin strong leaders lead in the wrong direction noone allowed to question it! It is going to bancrupt Toyota, and the carindustry and Japan!
Toyota is done, they will probably move to become a military manufacturer for the Japanese government.
@@Myrslokstok "@mmanjin strong leaders lead in the wrong direction noone allowed to question it! It is going to bancrupt Toyota, and the carindustry and Japan!"
That's not a strong leader.
Absolutely agree. I hope they don’t, but they deserve to go under.
SO why did they just keep dreaming and never looked at the numbers
Key is you can re-charge almost anywhere, while un loading etc. - with hydrogen it's a bit of a project driving to a hydrogen filling station every trip.
MOST people do not know this but TOYOTA is in bad debt up to its eyeballs...
Tesla Semi production of 50k a year will destroy Freightliner in 1 year. Freightliner, the largest semi manufacturer in the US, only sells 90k class 8 semi trucks a year! Imagine losing 50% of your sales in a single year to a competitor that did not exist the year before.
@@davidbeppler3032 yes and 3 years from that it will be 200k! And competitors have basicly started to react to the first treath!
True dat
Lars, good day from Goonellabah, NSW, Australia. I have proposed 250 passive houses, 160,000 m2 tracking PV and 65 MW Tesla batteries. The total cost is AUS1,5 billion. It did not go. ahead.
I am embarking on a significant six-month journey. I'll be circumnavigating Australia in two CYBERTRUCKs and a Tesla Semi, covering a substantial 22,000 kilometres. This journey is set to commence at the end of September 2025. Elon will help me - 🤗Cheers, Ian Cleland
Toyota even promoted hydrogen-powered cars in 2020 Tokyo Olympics😮😮😮
The basic physics and chemistry of hydrogen rule it out. They should know that.
Toyoda is a destructive imbecile. I can only imagine that he hates his family and is actively trying to destroy their legacy. No one is that dumb... outside of California.
Transportation costs more than our food. We get lettuce in Nova Scotia from California! 5000 km? Holy Frunk!
Transporation cost exactly the problem with GDP, fossil fuel is the boss behind the scene.
The clown in the industry is crawling towards the door to escape the burning factory.
Only water coming out of the exhaust.... sounds good, right ? Except in sub-zero conditions -- you get ice on the road - not so good. So a whole system is required to keep the water warm, and then release it over a drain...
@@chrisheath2637
😂
Wowee, no one could have possibly seen that one coming, except for like the super genius types who are regularly right about the sun rising and setting and that kind of thing.
Nooo what a complete surprise, like that time Mercedes did it, in April.... 2020....
Here's an uncomfortable fact from the department of physics. 1 gallon of gasoline has the same BTU output as 7 gallons of liquid hydrogen.
In other words, a 15 gallon tank of gas would need to be replaced by a 105 gallon, vacuum insulated tank of liquid hydrogen. And it has to be kept below minus 423°F
Pressurized gas is much less dense even yet.
Again, this is nature, reality, physics, and can never be change by any kind of engineering or marketing.
Hydrogen has an annoying ability to escape its confinement, too. It's super tiny and can go through metal (ask rocket engineers!). Also, with Hydrogen, you need a distribution network, but with electricity, we already have that and it's easy to transfer that energy anywhere in the world. No trucks or pipelines involved.
Yeah. Only a fool would promote hydrogen.
Which is why Elon has always called them "fool cells".
And how much power is burned liquefying or compressing Hydrogen, an energy that will probably not get recovered in the vehicle
Even an idiot like me knew this was coming due to thermodynamics, it's basic science and economics. People complain about education today but these old people (me including) had an obviously underwhelming education. Luckily for me I knew that and have tried to continue education throughout my life, although I know I'm still a Cockwomble. I remember an interview with a Professor that was instrumental in increasing higher education in his country. The hope was not just helping the economy but more educated people would be better at life choices in general. This didn't happen people still made bad decisions but were more arrogant with it.
Imagine the educated’s surprise.
It is so incredibly sad to see what has happened to Toyota over the last 15 years... they used to be one of the most innovative firms in the world, having a true long-term mindset. Shoichiro Toyota's 100-year plan is no more.
Great video, Lars!
An understanding of E.R.OE.I. makes scientifically clear that hydrogen was never an option.
Imagine all the money and alll they would have had to do is bought Tesla stocks when it was wortless, and skip the hudrogen idé 5 years ago.
At one time Toyota did own Tesla stock, but they sold it. It would be worth Billions now.
Yep if only Toyota had bought a large number of Tesla shares when they had Tesla building electric RAV 4's for them and then held onto them 🤦🏻
Short answer (according to Grok) is $14.18 billion. This accounts for the splits and a current (as of this post) share price of $411.
@@terrysullivan1992Only as much as Toyota’s total equity (minus $200+ Billion debt)🎉
Musk has described hydrogen fuel cells as "extremely silly" and "mind-bogglingly stupid." He has criticized the use of hydrogen for energy storage, calling it "the most dumb thing I could possibly imagine for energy storage" during an interview at the Financial Times Future of the Car summit in May 2022
Greetings from the HINDENBURG ! "Die Zukunft des Reisens..." (The future of traveling...)
HFC looks so good on paper. Your only exhaust is steam. But when you factor in all of the physics that can't be solved it was DOA from the start. The best thing hydrogen had going for it is it maintained the same business model. People come to our business, stand outside (in whatever weather) transferring 'fuel', then pay lots of money.
Toyota is the largest auto industry funder of climate deniers and I’ve often wondered was Toyota, as the largest and most influential oem, promising hydrogen cars were the true alternative to ice cars all this time as a way to distract buyers and other oems from considering EVs?
You were right! 😉
⚰️ R. I. P. Hydrogen-SCAM-compagy Nikola Motor... 😂😂😂
Toyota will go Toshiba way
The legacy car makers are toast. The Chinese and Tesla will dominate.
No wonder Toyota was talking about rockets-one last gasp for hydrogen!
This was always about one thing and one thing only.
Keep the suckers going to the pump forever.
If only they’d asked me 10 years ago , or anyone with a brain .
Or even HALF a brain!
The Hindeberg worked great. Hydrogen is da bomb. (I actually love hydrogen in general though. It's literally protons. It's what mitochondria turbines run on.)
Lars ❤ your content.
Toyota has been deceitful and arrogant.
Toyota needs to adjust to a new target before it's too late
Lean only goes so far
What makes you think "before it's too late". It is already too late.
ROFLMAO.
Toyota have lost the plot! What the hell were they thinking!
Will I miss Toyota if they go down the gurgler? No, not for a second. The Toyota of twenty or thirty years ago was a very different company to the Toyota of today. They actually DESERVE to go belly up.
Hyjijen?
You're not the only one who pronounces it this way, of course.
I saw a Sabine Hossenfelder video recently, who is German, I believe and pronounces it similarly. Fascinating.
What they're saying is, the technology they developed has been far surpassed before they could make a buck
Could you imagine how far the Tesla Simi would go with a megapac on a trailer jumped to the truck? I’m certain that it would be more than the hydrogen truck with all of the extra tanks.
They could use hydrogen to run the machines needed to dismantle their factories so the banks would get some scrap value from it
Once upon a time the goal was to replace gasoline fuel with a superior fuel. Hydrogen was an alternative fuel to consider. Electrification makes all "burn something" fuel obsolete.
Yes, hydrogen fuel cells produce pure water as exhaust. But realize, that's because what goes in is also required to be very pure.
"Yes, hydrogen fuel cells produce pure water as exhaust. But realize, that's because what goes in is also required to be very pure."
Yeah if you increase the emissions and emit it elsewhere you can brag about having only water as exhaust.
Akio Toyoda didn't step down soon enough
We shouldn't be that tough on Toyota. They were just trying to build vehicles to meet Japanese government mandates.
Keep up the good work at Best in Tesla! Over 85% of hydrogen produced now is extracted from methane at oil refineries. Hydrogen gas produced by oil companies can contain up to 15% methane. All hydrogen used in combustion engines produce N2O nitrous oxide which is a green hose gas. If it has a tail pipe there is combustion. You can make electricity from hydrogen without combustion of air which is 84% nitrogen but that would be really expensive. With all the fracking going on there is a huge surplus of "natural gas" which is really just methane. To extract hydrogen from water using electricity is not the way oil companies get their hydrogen! This is my understanding am I far off Lars?
Yep, hydrogen vehicles are promoted by the petroleum industry. Tells you everything right there. Just another way to keep us burning their products that does not solve the carbon emissions problem.
What about hydrogen for home power generation?
How many hundreds of billions of dollars will it cost to build the hydrogen distribution system? A thing can be beautiful and all that. If something is not cheap enough to be used by tens of millions of people, it remains a toy of the rich people. Hydrogen has the classic chicken and egg problem. If someone does not invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the system, there will be no large scale usage by regular people. If there is no large scale usage by millions of regular people, nobody will invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the distribution system.
$145,000 /year government saves . Deduction cost of operating a business
Odds of hydrogen tanks exploding are not very high, but if it happened the hydrogen would insta freeze a decent sized area, unless something caught the gas on fire…I think the more likely scenario is the battery pack catching on fire, heating the hydrogen tank and rapidly increasing the gas pressure until the tank pressure release valve opens and turns the tank into a really great flame thrower.
🎉
Woah, this is a new angle, love the recent Elon revelations, getting put in his place by the adults. Carry on pumper.
Ten yrs (plus) ago: Elon Musk said Hydrogen was a fool's errand. Don't bet against Elon Musk .
Toyota used to be such a great car company. The persistent incompetence of their CEO has doomed it through too many irrational decisions. This is what happens when you don't have people at the top who understand the physics.
O:28 is the silent majority in Japan speaking again ?? Hehe
But hydrogen is not the fuel. It is more like the transmission wires taking electricity from a coal burning power station, but much worse. Generate solar power electricity and send an electric field down a conductor where, at a million Volts DC, it flys ten thousand miles to transformers, into the battery on the vehicle. Hydrogen replaced the wires with absurdly dangerous explosively combustible , batteries,bank trucks and leaking pipes. Either made by natural gas, or electricity. One is now simple and safe.
Toyota is still working on hydrogen drive trains because the government is still providing funding. They need to add NACS/CCS2 to make it a plug-in hybrid 😅
That is not a failure it was ultimatum from oil companies, stop saying nonsenses...😂
They need to can the truck idea immediately... It's desperation and clutching at straws as they thought Tesla was a joke, direct from plant managers mouth of the diesel company I work for
Dinosaur,
Last gasp....
Oh shoot, this might mean they will survive anyway...
H20h No!
Tesla to the moon in 2 years.
Probably sooner for a fly around and unmanned landing
You mean "Mars" of course...
Hydrogen only really makes sense for planes and boats. Building out an infrastructure for them would be far easier and they are the two things where the weight of batteries make electric not an option.
"Hydrogen only really makes sense for planes and boats."
Planes? No it doesn't.
Nope. Hate to burst your bubble. Won’t work there either, same problems, except worse.
Hydrogen is DOA.
Give Nikola time and they'll figure it out...right, Trevor? Oh, wait.....
I look forward to reading "Fuel cell is a fool's cell". How Toyoda destroyed the Japanese auto industry because of a butt hurt. They even tried to rope South Korea.
Imagine the educated’s surprise.
First green energy cannot cost three time because sun and wind are free of charge so the PV outlet DC kWh cost almost NOTHING , less than two cents and the three times more kWh like 50 for 100 kms can be stored to match production with demand time wise for a fraction of this, since bottle cost nothing compared to lithium batteries and take minimum ten times more cycles. The cost to store clean sun electricity to recharge at night plus a power network to cope with all this is by far more than 3 times more. So economical efficiencies from well to wheel must be calculated and not with retail selling price of H2 but green H2 current cost of production , Lhyfe sell 5€/kg already so less than 5$ for 100 kms,
Current conversion of oil cracking steel decarbonisation and fertiliser production from grey to green and blue H2 due to war time LNG technical, economical issues and Russian natural gas shortage causes definitly some transient disruptions for the 120 millions tons per annum of H2 produced. The non steady supply like clean mobility, with insane retail H2 prices and no open competition are being ignored. Yet, anyone with surface renewables sun and wind emergy can produce store use and sell green H2, but the production of systems is not yet geared up to massive and robotised H2 systems production yet, except for PV panels . Once the peak of transition to green will be over, the cost of green H2 cost can only go down very significantly since PV, COPV, PEM electolysers and fuel cells with less Pt. and more Ni. cost less and less with also less dirty grey energy for mining and production. Now will selling prices follow the lower cost ? most likely in an open competitive and fair trade market for clean energy and real issue are political not technical not economical…Can Elon stop a moving à clean H2 train with dirty smoke screens? Maybe not ::read the complete Hyundai Kia point of view on H2 that Hyundai VP Changhwan Kim concluded end 2024 by this statement,: “ Imagine what we can do while being now the third car mfrs worldwide, with our partners , our strategy and vehicles like the INITIUM “ .( I,e the new Hyundai H2 car) . He seems very optimistic about clean light economical and low grey energy mobility’s future,,with green H2 of course.😂
LOL.😂
Hi dijjin' 😂
EV Lars ✔️🖖🌎
Toyota will go with a begging bowl to BYD.
It’s not accurate to describe one truck as electric and one as hydrogen. They both are electric it’s just that Tesla gets its electricity from batteries and hydrogen fueled trucks have a fuel cell that transforms hydrogen into electricity.
How much hydrogen do you get back if you drive a long Downhill? The Electric Regen gives you Bonus energy ! Less of a saving on flat roads sure but the Hydrogen Truck doesn’t offer such extras as regen …. How many Hydrogen Stations are there in the World? I guess it doesn’t matter if they could even build and sell hydrogen cars Cheaper, fuel costs and obtain ability are the Dealbreaker . If the truck is seven times the cost to fill with hydrogen then you’d have to be mad to go in that direction …
Compressed natural gas makes more sense than hydrogen, especially when hydrogen is > 90% made from natural gas.
CNG has a higher volumetric energy density than compressed hydrogen. This means that for a given volume, CNG can store more energy, which is advantageous in applications where space is a constraint, like in vehicles.
Compressed Hydrogen (CH): When compressed to around 700 bar (10,000 psi), hydrogen has a volumetric energy density of approximately 4.5 MJ/L or 1.25 kWh/L.
Compressed Natural Gas (CNG): Typically compressed to 200-250 bar (3,000-3,600 psi), CNG has a volumetric energy density of about 9 MJ/L or 2.5 kWh/L.
IMO BEV are the far better choice especially when cost and maintenance are considered
Compressed anything does not sound like a good fit for vehicles prone to crashing. Maybe sometime in a future where everything is autonomous but agree battery tech is a far better and safer solution.
Just use electric vehicles or liquid fuel. There's not point using gases.
They finally hid-da-gin! lol
Toyota were never an inventor or leader in advances in car technology
They’re copiers
They copied everything others did but did it better with ‘just in time’ parts supplying and strict quality control and focus on reliability so they made reliable boring vehicles for decades and dominated the world
Now they’re trying to be better than Tesla but they’re not as good as Tesla and don’t have the talent
They’re using FAW EV and GAC ev with CATL batteries in their Toyota Ev’s so are basically badge engineering those Chinese partner brands and still can’t make a good EV
so they’re trying to stop others buying better ev than what they make by talking about hybrids and selling loads of them with previous century technology and talking about Hydrogen
Toyota. You should stick to copying leaders but copy Tesla like XPeng do then you will make a good ev 🎉
It should take only five minutes and common sense to know that hydrogen car cannot possibly work. Hydrogen may be a solution in other arena, but not for the automobile. Why? How many hundreds of billions of dollars would it cost build new hydrogen production plants, fleet of trucks to transport the hydrogen to the refueling stations, and the tens of thousands of hydrogen refueling stations.
Hydrogen car has the classic chicken and egg problem.. No cars and nobody would invest the hundreds of billions of dollars to build the refueling system. No refueling system and nobody would buy the car.
It helps to understand how the gasoline refueling stations got built. The first major product of the oil industry was kerosene, sold in cana via general stores. Kerosene was used for lightning and cooking. The system of general stores had been around for three thousand years. When gas burning cars came along, the general stores close to weslthy neighborhood just stocked a few cans of gasoline. The profit financed the expansion. When the sales volume got big enough, the general store became the gas station.
Electric vehicles works because the powe plant and electric wires had already spread all over the world without EV. The charger is an appliance. The early buyer could afford buying the charger too. Most Norwegians charge their cars at home. Nobody had to build the entire electric cable system.
Neither gasoline cars nor EV has the chicken and egg problem.
Toyota? Who dat? Oh, right... yeah that car company talking crazy shite about hydrogen cars and solid state batteries. Yeah, they went bankrupt back in '27. They're gone like the Dodo. Thanks
Flip flop, flip flop.....like a dying fish....will start to stink real bad. Better buy TSLA, BYD and Xpeng shares to save yourselves....Hahahaha
Looking at Toyota hydrogen so a couple of billion dollars in marketing and not forget marketer's not a big deal in big deal of things developing is a resource drain all this not comparable to the TIME wasted so late in the game you bet too late for come back no but and it's a big but it's going to cost Toyota mega mega dollars and then there's the time to do so sad having to start over.
Anyone with a basic understanding of physics could have told them this decades ago, but in Japan you just keep your mouth shut.
I think that it is sad that the presenter is clearly cynical of the attempts of Toyota to perfect the technology as a realistic alternative to hydro carbon fuelled vehicles. We don’t need the chuckles! There are clearly issues with purely electric vehicles, and I am sure that many of us know people who are abandoning their Tesla’s and other electric vehicles and returning to either hybrids or indeed petrol! We need a number of options to solve global warming before we utilise the worlds lithium just to create batteries!
What's Hi-Ja-Gen??🤣🤣🤣🤣 Just kidding you and the way you pronounce hydrogen.
The current hope for electrifying the African subcontinent is "Distributed Renewable Energy"... This is where a few solar panels here and there will provide low voltage lighting and the ability to recharge a phone... But this approach cannot recharge a vehicle... Obviously hydrogen makes no sense at all in Japan, America or Europe, with all that excellent infrastructure we have... But hydrogen is, perhaps, the only practical renewable option for vehicles in Africa?
So beef up the solar panels instead of spending even more money on expensive hydrogen storage and maintenance..
@@erktrek Remember, there are no transmission lines... You would have to have a solar farm at each of many thousands of charging stations across a vast continent... So that approach is far more daunting than you are thinking... Hydrogen is not a great solution, but maybe it's the only practical solution in Africa?
@@ElbowShouldersen Each village in Africa can have its own solar farm. You only have to wire houses within a couple hundred yards of each other.
Solar could be put at each charging station very easily and very inexpensively. Way less than to run any type of electrical lines and way less expensive than hydrogen piping or trucking it.
But how are the cybertruck sales doing?? Remember how crazy the hype was? Anyone still remember? Anyone??
Sorry you’re wrong!
EV’s are a fail
Hydrogen fueled ICE vehicles are the future with the new lower hydrogen cost and the lowering of the damage to the environment mining for precious metals for EV batteries.
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You are way to cocky.
Can Elon admit CT is dumpster fire, rusting, zero rear visibility?
You believe that crap???? How incredibly naive!
"Can Elon admit CT is dumpster fire, rusting, zero rear visibility?"
Why would he admit to your personal fantasies?
Hydrogen is still a good option for industrial heating (steel)…
If at all possible anything else is just as good and cheaper
But using methanes is better from so many perspectives. The steel still need to have some carbon added. Don’t know if the carbon included in the methane molecule is enough but the H2 molecule contain no carbon. So…how is the carbon added?
"Hydrogen is still a good option for industrial heating (steel)…"
If that were the case it would have been more widespread by now.
Only in very specific situations is hydrogen still necessary, but not for long. Everything else can be done with electric arc furnaces/ tech, etc.
@@yourcrazybear for ages coal has been used for the production of steel. It’s cheap, and no one knew it give a damn about the side effects.
Any alternatives will be more expensive. Hence companies aren’t too eager to change.
And it is not only about the CO2 emissions: not far from here, at the town of IJmuiden we have the TATA steel plant. The people living some miles around it live significantly shorter compared to those living further away.
The TATA steel plant in Sweden is already switch from coal to hydrogen, the one in the UK appeared not to be viable. And a possible transition of the Dutch plant is under discussion. TATA expects huge subsidies from the government, with no guarantees of keeping the plant up.
Of course, our government doesn’t give a damn about people’s health…
I suggest that the open minded among you to look into HPQ Silicon. They have point-of-use aluminum silicon alloy for on demand hydrogen generation. Presently being evaluated by the French military for field use.
The only thing I could find about hydrogen under Initiatives was the following: "Partnered with Novacium SAS, HPQ is developing a new autonomous process for making hydrogen via the electrolysis of silicon and other materials." Otherwise the site was promoting their battery tech? Maybe I missed something tho.
@ you are not the only one. Based on what was presented in that PR and its uniqueness and its potential TAM and possible applications take a long consideration. You might see the possibilities. Might.
I prefer Trinity. Thank you.
@@juliewow4504 No amount of “open-mindedness” will change the science or economics. You’re living in a hydrogen dream world Neo.
@ I doubt that the French military are easy to dupe. While the financial are unknown the science is there and the patent office did a review and found no patents that are similar or an improvement on an existing patent. Time will define the questions. So I am willing to wait.
@@juliewow4504 Even if you were a free diver I wouldn’t suggest holding your breath.
However, if you’d like a fun little googling into the science, look into the water problem with hydrogen.
DOA.
Also, if Toyota, you know, one of the biggest car companies in the world? a FOR PROFIT company, (unlike a not for profit military) got duped, what do you think the French military’s chances are?
Hydrogen is not good for cars but for freight, trucking, shipping, planes and most importantly for all heavy industries like ammonia and steel only hydrogen will work.... Hydrogen production is becoming cheaper and cheaper proven and the goal for next 3 years is $1 per kilo. Your exaggerating the cost and the green hydrogen has no pollution.... Companies like PLUG currently producing Green Hydrogen at cost of $5/kilo and they are bringing that cost down to $2/k with Tax credits and looking to bringing it to $1/kilo which will make it cheaper then electric
"Hydrogen is not good for cars but for freight, trucking, shipping, planes and most importantly for all heavy industries like ammonia and steel only hydrogen will work..."
Planes? No hydrogen is not good here.
@@tubee69 Never going to happen.
You cannot break the laws of physics no matter how much bullshit you throw at it. Haha. Hydrogen will not work anywhere.
It’s a scam.
Could you imagine how far the Tesla Simi would go with a megapac on a trailer jumped to the truck? I’m certain that it would be more than the hydrogen truck with all of the extra tanks.