I think even at the point Omega was being developed the devs knew that higher damage meant nothing if the character cant get in. Very strange oversight
Idt it was an oversight. Since its kinda treated like a side mode, they used it as more of a testing ground. If i was a dev, i would try and push terrible character concepts to the limit
That was kind of the point of Omega, to test out some design choices. A lot of stuff didn't make it into SFV because it was too drastic, like Ken's kick fireballs, but a lot of stuff did.
He may be next to unviable, but I can still appreciate the direction the devs tried to go with this one. Make the big scary grappler even more terrifying if he actually gets in, and give him a parry to help him approach in theory, but make him have to get in again every time. As someone who loves playing big slow dudes, I think I would have liked Omega Gief even if he's hot garbage.
Seeing Gief get 753 damage and a full stun off one jump in is fucking bonkers, even if it's pretty impractical. As for Gief, I like the idea of no Gief vortex, but this isn't a well executed way of that. If Gief can't get oki on SPD, he has to be able to get in well enough to be able to get another SPD. I know he'll struggle against characters like zoners, but to struggle this bad (and against a shoto, even for demonstration purposes) is just awful. Also Green Hand or Russian Stomping should return. If possible both, more moves are nice, but one of the two should return as an alternate combo ender to Lariat (for when he can't use Lariat).
I never played sf4 but if their mentality was to make Gief deal craploads of damage in Omega, I wonder how much more damage youd have to give a character to make up for other aspects of their tools being bad
I mean depending on the game none will do, in 2nd Impact Hugo has a corner TOD and is still a horrible character that loses every matchup except the ditto
To answer your question, damage rarely outweighs consistency and being able to maintain pressure and shut down the opponent's options. Potemkin in Guilty Gear Xrd, a Grappler, has access to very consistent TODs at the corner. But no combos he has midscreen keep him close to the opponent, and since they fly so far away, he gets no pressure. This alongside some awful matchups make him the worst character in the game by a mile. For a simpler example, Potemkin in Strive deals some of of the highest damage in the roster, but with the game overall being high damage in general, he falls short in other areas. He's not terrible like his Xrd counterpart, but he gets powercrept easily and has some bad matchups.
@@leithaziz2716 Xrd Potemkin isn't that bad though lol. He's definitely the worst character, but acting like he's league below everyone else is just dishonest or wrong. The gap between Johnny and Potemkin is not as big as the discussions about Potemkin would lead you to believe
Zangief being hot ass in Omega is sad, because the idea of what they went for sounds like the most fun shit to play on the planet. "You struggle super hard to get in, but deal 70% once you are" Unfortunately, that doesn't translate well to viability, and more importantly lacks another quintessential part of the Grappler Dynamic, that being "can they keep the pressure" which Omega Gief cannot. I mean, it could've been worse, they could've removed green hand and gave Gief nothing to compensate for it, replacing the input with, I dunno, a horrible parry that can only function versus kick attacks, and even then only certain types of kicks. Just spitballing of course they'd never do that.
@@chainsawbussyfuck not even remotely what I was saying but go off. The problem wasn't the removal of Green Hand, it was the lack of compensation in return. I'm not a Gief player, I'd love if green hand never showed up again, but you can't give a character nothing after removing a top 3 tool in their kit. Imagine if Guile just lost flash kick, or if SFV Oro lost Stones, and got no other changes for balance, that's SFV Gief. Do I wish I'd never have to deal with green hand, flash kick, or tengu stones again? Yes absolutely, but they're necessary evils.
Idk I always thought this design was the most boring possible one you could make for a character, and it sucking is part of that. Having a character who's literal only upside is damage is never fun since getting in is hard and staying in is hard too. You never get to spend much of the match doing the things your character is good at, either
Has people started play omega casually thanks to these videos? I gotta admit I completely ignored omega back when it came out but these changes are pretty interesting. Also that head hop zangief got it's taken directly from alpha 3 where people use it to hop over lows into SPD or just to get close and get you off guard with an SPD
I feel like this version of Gief could have worked a bit better if it wasn't for the universal quick-rise change made in Omega. Though he still wouldn't be in your face after an SPD, he'd atleast be close enough to force some sort of reaction. The damage buffs are bonkers though.
I really want Gief to get Russian Stomping in SF6 as an actual move instead of the meme target combo. Feel like it could really help him end his combos while still fitting with his new design
It’s always been absurd to me the devs still made this the template for zangief in 5 when zangief finally was made into a real character in 4. They clearly got “BEG TONK” was not a great design as zangief was pretty bad in omega when he traded any and all Oki and vortex for MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!! so why double down on this in 5? Whatever. I just hope 4 gief comes back in 6 instead of this dumb idea.
They weren’t keen on the constant vortex, as seen with the changes done to Ibuki and the like. Hard knockdowns in general aren’t as popular as they used to be. Hard to say if that will stay the same or if the readdition of more defensive options will let some of that gameplan return.
@@invincibleloonie yeah but gief still sucked at getting in and unlike Hugo or t.hawk he can’t really 50/50 you with grab without ultra which if you have you’re likely getting your ask kicked a little in the first place. Really EX green hand being projectile immune only and no one has a real argument for this character design being bad. Because every other argument but green hand is “yeah it’s fair that zoners can keep you out and make you not play the game, but it’s not fun when the grappler punishes me for being stupid”.
@@jamestristen9916 ehhhh. Birdie and mika in V shows that they’re willing to admit they were stupid and everyone else was smarter for accepting grapplers could be normal characters, but then zangief just sextupled down on their traditional design and it all went to shit with him.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
2:52
"No, you can't juggle Ultra 2"
The reads.
i guess reading your opponents has more upsides outside games
I think even at the point Omega was being developed the devs knew that higher damage meant nothing if the character cant get in. Very strange oversight
Idt it was an oversight. Since its kinda treated like a side mode, they used it as more of a testing ground.
If i was a dev, i would try and push terrible character concepts to the limit
Honestly i think its a consequence of the changes to knockdowns and okizeme. If this Gief had the oki of USF4 gief he would be good
I think they were just seeing how extreme this could go
He still has a parry and anyone who has to play up close is gonna be scared of getting in on him so I understand their philosophy in theory.
@@tootsie_ if he had USF4 oki he'd be broken
I wish Russian Stomping returns in SF6 in the form of the Cossack Dance. It would be a cute callback to Gem Fighter.
It's back
The cossack dance is not a gem fighters callback it's a SF2 zangeif ending callback
Everyone else in Omega is playing Omega, Gief out here playing Ultra Fight Da Kyanta 2
Its INSANE how most Omega builds of these characters are VERY similar to their SF5 builds.
That was kind of the point of Omega, to test out some design choices. A lot of stuff didn't make it into SFV because it was too drastic, like Ken's kick fireballs, but a lot of stuff did.
is it really? is it just absolutely INSANE?
He may be next to unviable, but I can still appreciate the direction the devs tried to go with this one. Make the big scary grappler even more terrifying if he actually gets in, and give him a parry to help him approach in theory, but make him have to get in again every time.
As someone who loves playing big slow dudes, I think I would have liked Omega Gief even if he's hot garbage.
Capcom's plan in Omega: Fuck Gief.
Capcom's plan in SFV: Fuck Gief.
Capcom's plan in SF6: 🤔
I mean, the guy goes naked everywhere, someone would want to fuck him...
"naw nvm"
@@Micha-Hil but actually
MY LOYAL FANS
@@stanley8006THIS IS YOUR LAST RIDE
Damn Zangief needs a chiropractor, that hunch and neck pain
Seeing Gief get 753 damage and a full stun off one jump in is fucking bonkers, even if it's pretty impractical.
As for Gief, I like the idea of no Gief vortex, but this isn't a well executed way of that. If Gief can't get oki on SPD, he has to be able to get in well enough to be able to get another SPD. I know he'll struggle against characters like zoners, but to struggle this bad (and against a shoto, even for demonstration purposes) is just awful.
Also Green Hand or Russian Stomping should return. If possible both, more moves are nice, but one of the two should return as an alternate combo ender to Lariat (for when he can't use Lariat).
We got russian stomp in SF6 but it sucks
@@LucDaMan4You definitely see a lot of this Gief in SF6’s version, with the main difference being harder combos in exchange for grabs powered by crack
I never played sf4 but if their mentality was to make Gief deal craploads of damage in Omega, I wonder how much more damage youd have to give a character to make up for other aspects of their tools being bad
Apparently more.
A random combo should deal 60% of ur dmg, tods are common
I mean depending on the game none will do, in 2nd Impact Hugo has a corner TOD and is still a horrible character that loses every matchup except the ditto
To answer your question, damage rarely outweighs consistency and being able to maintain pressure and shut down the opponent's options.
Potemkin in Guilty Gear Xrd, a Grappler, has access to very consistent TODs at the corner. But no combos he has midscreen keep him close to the opponent, and since they fly so far away, he gets no pressure. This alongside some awful matchups make him the worst character in the game by a mile.
For a simpler example, Potemkin in Strive deals some of of the highest damage in the roster, but with the game overall being high damage in general, he falls short in other areas. He's not terrible like his Xrd counterpart, but he gets powercrept easily and has some bad matchups.
@@leithaziz2716 Xrd Potemkin isn't that bad though lol. He's definitely the worst character, but acting like he's league below everyone else is just dishonest or wrong. The gap between Johnny and Potemkin is not as big as the discussions about Potemkin would lead you to believe
I feel like Omega Zangief was created for casual players, because people that aren't that good would just let Zangief get in for free
Zangief being hot ass in Omega is sad, because the idea of what they went for sounds like the most fun shit to play on the planet.
"You struggle super hard to get in, but deal 70% once you are"
Unfortunately, that doesn't translate well to viability, and more importantly lacks another quintessential part of the Grappler Dynamic, that being "can they keep the pressure" which Omega Gief cannot.
I mean, it could've been worse, they could've removed green hand and gave Gief nothing to compensate for it, replacing the input with, I dunno, a horrible parry that can only function versus kick attacks, and even then only certain types of kicks. Just spitballing of course they'd never do that.
Green hand is kinda a cheap move for a grappler though
i will do irreversible things if i hear another person say "they should give Zangief green hand in V!"
@@chainsawbussyfuck not even remotely what I was saying but go off.
The problem wasn't the removal of Green Hand, it was the lack of compensation in return. I'm not a Gief player, I'd love if green hand never showed up again, but you can't give a character nothing after removing a top 3 tool in their kit.
Imagine if Guile just lost flash kick, or if SFV Oro lost Stones, and got no other changes for balance, that's SFV Gief.
Do I wish I'd never have to deal with green hand, flash kick, or tengu stones again? Yes absolutely, but they're necessary evils.
@@MrMisfortune it came off as such but i do have to agree with sentiment of "gief needs something"
Idk I always thought this design was the most boring possible one you could make for a character, and it sucking is part of that. Having a character who's literal only upside is damage is never fun since getting in is hard and staying in is hard too. You never get to spend much of the match doing the things your character is good at, either
Has people started play omega casually thanks to these videos? I gotta admit I completely ignored omega back when it came out but these changes are pretty interesting.
Also that head hop zangief got it's taken directly from alpha 3 where people use it to hop over lows into SPD or just to get close and get you off guard with an SPD
yes :)
Actually the head hop is from super turbo
HE GOT THE STOMPS LET'S GOOO
I feel like this version of Gief could have worked a bit better if it wasn't for the universal quick-rise change made in Omega. Though he still wouldn't be in your face after an SPD, he'd atleast be close enough to force some sort of reaction. The damage buffs are bonkers though.
I remember seeing this omega mode series before and really enjoyed them. Are these 2022 series a re-upload or did you re-record them/add new info?
Both. He's re-uploading the ones that are hosted on the SRK UA-cam channel as well as making new ones.
Reuploads add combos at the end IIRC.
zangieph
I really want Gief to get Russian Stomping in SF6 as an actual move instead of the meme target combo. Feel like it could really help him end his combos while still fitting with his new design
6:09 you can also combo another EX spd
You could at release but they removed that in the 1.04 patch IIRC.
@@Bafael so they nerfed a bad character in a mode yoi cant even play in arcade mode ? Neat
It feels like they wanted to make Zangief more similar to Hugo.
...In other words, worse.
So basically 4 zangeif was PM Ganondorf and omega zangeif is Ultimate Ganondorf
Omega gief sucks, but at least he’s still gief, which is better than Abel got I guess
Personally from playing and experience, I can say that omega zangief is funner and better than Sfv zangief
Maybe but they both suck lol
I hope sf6 gief coming with the big damage.
👍
If you were to buff him in omega, what would you change/add to him? Go as wild as you’d like with this btw
oki on EX hand and I'm gucci
@@Bafael heres hoping he gets green hand back in SF6
@@NinF37he gets green rush instead
It’s always been absurd to me the devs still made this the template for zangief in 5 when zangief finally was made into a real character in 4. They clearly got “BEG TONK” was not a great design as zangief was pretty bad in omega when he traded any and all Oki and vortex for MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!! so why double down on this in 5? Whatever. I just hope 4 gief comes back in 6 instead of this dumb idea.
They weren’t keen on the constant vortex, as seen with the changes done to Ibuki and the like. Hard knockdowns in general aren’t as popular as they used to be. Hard to say if that will stay the same or if the readdition of more defensive options will let some of that gameplan return.
@@invincibleloonie yeah but gief still sucked at getting in and unlike Hugo or t.hawk he can’t really 50/50 you with grab without ultra which if you have you’re likely getting your ask kicked a little in the first place. Really EX green hand being projectile immune only and no one has a real argument for this character design being bad. Because every other argument but green hand is “yeah it’s fair that zoners can keep you out and make you not play the game, but it’s not fun when the grappler punishes me for being stupid”.
Seems like Capcom wants to change the concept of traditional grapplers
@@jamestristen9916 ehhhh. Birdie and mika in V shows that they’re willing to admit they were stupid and everyone else was smarter for accepting grapplers could be normal characters, but then zangief just sextupled down on their traditional design and it all went to shit with him.
@@Neogears1312 removing green hand was the main issue. a grappler with no mobility or get in tool is useless.
So they made him Potempkin
This gief basically Abigail but worst.