🛠 Fuel Pressure and Fuel Pump Ratings | TECH TUESDAY
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2022
- #fuelpressure #techtuesday #haltech
Why is fuel pressure important? Unfortunately, this question is usually asked too late....
In this video, Matt dishes out a whole lot of useful info in an easy-to-digest, compact format.
Got a topic you'd like us to cover? Leave it in the comments section!
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It's Tech Tuesday Time!
Why is fuel pressure important? Unfortunately, this question is usually asked too late....
In this video, Matt dishes out a whole lot of useful info in an easy-to-digest, compact format.
@Haltech Can I request you cover a similar topic? For returnless fuel systems? Upgrade path for boost? I can't find the information to clearly set and accomplish what I want to do and having a hell of a time finding the info!!
Returnless fuel system/ NA car from factory but now Rotrex supercharged running 10psi. Stock injectors were 185cc now running 410cc, upgraded stock pump to a 340LPH. OEM fuel system otherwise, 43psi fuel pressure.
at 10PSI injectors are peaking to 80% duty cycle, I put in the new pump and still of course no change but AFR richened up from target 11.5 went to 10.5 throughout boost pressure fuel map (from data logging). So pulling a bit out of the map back to 11.5AFR will help BUT what is the next step? Only bigger injectors? Convert to an external FPR/fuel rail and return system?
Please cover the topic on what all is going on in a returnless system, is 43PSI being a constant at key on/engine off all the way throughout vacuum of an operating engine. Without manifold reference I don't understand how the fuel pressure is being regulated to a constant at the manifold with varying vacuum? I know once I am building boost I am losing pressure fighting against the manifold pressure.
Trying to get up to 12PSI is the goal but fueling is at its limit on this setup. I have bigger (ID 1050x) injectors to get there if that is what I have to do but the 410's with some way to combat the positive pressure should be able to do the job I would think?
Love the fact that Tech Tuesday is back! Would love to see a Tech Tuesday topic of how to power up a Haltech 2500 outside the car so you can configure various channels, datalogging etc while the car is still being built and hasn't been wired yet.
That's exactly what I needed this evening too! I'm thinking of taking a car battery up to my pc, powering up the ecu and plugging in the usb. But I just can't bring myself to risk it!
Just use a USB power bank jump pack.
I use an old desktop computer power supply. Drive connectors have +12v, +5v and 2 grounds. Connect +12v to the harness lead that goes to pin B11 and one of the black ground wires.
Another informative viewing, a clearly defined walking through of the fuel system duties in a modern EFI solution employing rising rate FPR.
You can’t quite wave a flag about this enough, at the best of times the fuel system is performing at a handicap which isn’t ever realized but fingers get pointed in a commanding fashion even before a qualified assessment has been employed.
Thanks as always gentlemen, cheers 🤝
I would love an episode on adjustable fuel regulators and adjusting fuel pressure for injectors. Is there a thing like fuel pressure tuning? Why invest in a adjustable regulator when you just set it to a certain value forever? What are the advantages/disadvantages of running higher/lower pressures then rated for the injectors?
Questions I have hard time findings answers to and everyone just seems to stick an adjustable regulator on there engine :)
Just by having a higher flowing pump installed will increase pressure even if the regulator is not touched and at the same duty cycle mixtures will be richer that’s one reason for them the other is that pressure denotes an injectors flow capacity! more pressure equals more flow so setting this at an optimal pressure for the injectors with the flow of the pump at that pressure considered more pressure means less flow from the pumps and more amps drawn so it’s a matter of balance
You need to regulate the fuel pressure to a certain level (usually 40psi), but because it depends on several different factors (fuel pump, size of the fuel lines, efi or carb, etc.) there's no single value regulator that can do it all. Instead you buy an adjustable regulator, then when you're first getting the engine running, you twiddle the knob until you get the right pressure and leave it there. You'll never need to adjust it unless you start changing things in your fuel system.
(I assume OEMs can predict the exact regulator they will need for a particular engine, and design it in from the factory.)
Think of it like adjustable suspension, it needs to be adjustable so that you can set it to the exact height you want with your setup, but once it's correct you'll probably never have to change it again.
@@phuzz00 mostly true! But you can make a quick change to pressure for fine tuning if lean or rich for whatever reason especially if not able to access the computer, for an example fuel condition or type maybe an additive could be weather or just simply wanting to turn it up for a run, I personally use a spa fmu up to 14:1 rising rate and can tune my mixture on the fly from the cabin via air bleed control to the 2nd regulator the first reg is for low load and is normal 1:1 then the 2nd takes over at higher boost and takes adjustable fuel metering past the airflow meter and duty cycle control and well past the typical limits of the injectors used! 136mph 1/4 mile stock bottom end Ecotec v6 98ron untuned ecu 1620kg
@@phuzz00 check out injector flow calculator’s online for one reference of fuelling requirements and the flow calculator’s for pump needs it’s not just a matter of tinkering with a knob but a matter of maths to figure out how much fuel an engine needs for a given bsfc and power target and I’ve been developing racing fuel systems as a motor mechanic for over 20yrs and this new tech like these calculator’s in our pocket can save a lot of time and testing!
@@needmoreboost6369 If the fuel pressure changes depending on pump flow, the fuel pressure regulator return is maybe too small to successfully bleed off excess fuel.
The point of the regulator is to keep the difference between intake air and fuel pressure the same no matter the pump flow or engine need.
Air and fuel are the key to an internal combustion engine. Get it right and you can get peak horsepower and torque. Get it wrong and you can destroy engine. A number I learned years ago was BSFC (break specific fuel consumption). It tells you how many pounds of fuel per hour per horsepower. This helps you design a fuel delivery system capable of providing enough fuel. It helps size the fuel pump, fuel lines, and injectors. Many components are rated in pounds per hour of fuel.
The BSFC varies over the rpm range. A safe base number is .5 pounds per hour per horsepower. The lower the number, the more efficient the engine. A number of .4 is good and .6 is high. All those numbers are normal over rpm range. If you have 1,000 hp engine and a BSFC of .5 you need to deliver 500 pounds of fuel in 1 hour. System can be sized for that. If you have a 'Need For Speed' and don't want to stop at every gas station, you might consider duel 50 gallon fuels tanks.
Love these videos. Keep em coming.
Little side note pumps only create flow. The restriction(s) in the system will create the pressure.
Exactly!
Its a 10/10 comment from me.
Also, check that the return line is big enough for high volume. It can cause pressure to build up and cause pressure regulators not to perform properly. 😊
I would also look at the flow rates vs various pressures of the pump
You guys should make an in depth video on Idle tuning in order to achieve a solid hum.
1:52 seems like you cut off the part where he would say in that example the intake manifold pressure was 40 psi :)
I’ve had an issue with fuel pumps getting lazy over time from the car sitting unused with e85 in the tank. I’m about to fit a fuel pressure gauge into the feed line to monitor fuel pump health, is it safe to run normal efi clamps with a fitting t-pieced into the feed line? Or do I need to run push lock /screw in fittings due to the pressure in the line?
One little detail; Pumps do not produce pressure, pumps produce flow. Pressure is the resistance to flow.
Thanks. Do you have a video on fuel pressure and fuel agonizing ? Have an Edelbrock PF-4 . It calls for 58 psi. So do I want 58 at WOT or at idle with the vacuum hose attached or unattached? With it unattached, the regulator would think it's at WTO with 0 manifold vacuum. Even though I think mine never goes below 3 inches. So I could set it at 60psi with the vacuum hose off, 0 inches. Then, at 3 inches, it might be at 58 psi. Now, how will this all affect the discharge of the injection? 345 ci, Super Vick intake 230 duration 530 lift roller cam. 6,300 shift point.
I understand that you need to simplify things, but the pump never creates pressure. It only produces flow. Restriction creates pressure. The regulator being the variable restrictor is the ultimate determiner of pressure.
Agree totally with your PQ curve description, and the marketing waffle that goes with pump sales.
What about fuel pressure dampeners? Could you make a video about them
Do you have a video on why you can’t just “over build” it? Like why doesn’t everyone use 1000cc injectors and mechanical fuel pumps haha
I think it would be interesting to show how your power goals could effect your budget.
Can you please change the name to "tech today" and do a tech video everyday? 😁 Great video cheers 👍🏻
wish we could LOL
I think you guys missed a bit in the pressure differential explanation. You didn't mention that without the manifold pressure reference if the manifold is at 40psi, fuel would not flow. Had to watch that bit twice to fill in the holes.
Do you need to add 15psi approx on top of the rail pressure as atmospheric is 15 psi approximately for na applications
Injectors have a optimal pressure for best spray pattern, the data sheet should show the optimal pressure.
No, there is no adjustment for atmospheric pressure. If the injectors require 40psi, that really means they require 40psid (differential), so the pressure difference across the injector (inlet manifold to fuel rail) must be 40psi. The reference line on the pressure regulator sees the pressure in the inlet manifold, and the regulator adds 40psi above the reference pressure, so as the pressure (or vacuum if you like to think of it that way) in the inlet manifold goes up and down, the differential pressure across the injector stays constant at 40psid.
🙂
Might have missed it, but WAY too many people just put higher pressure and/or flow pumps on their vehicles without addressing the entire wiring side of the installation - pumps will only give their best when getting the operating voltage, and hence current, they need to meed the demands on them. Get it wrong and best case scenario they simply don't provide the fuel required, get it really wrong and you'll start a fire from overheated wiring that can't handle the amperage.
Oh, and the importance of matching the pipes and hoses to the fuel flow - get it right and there'll be minimal pressure drop throughout the system, get it wrong and it's a pressure head the pump has to overcome above the base pressure
consider the like button smashed.
Do I dare ask about boosted DI engines and fuel pressures? 😂
No!
@@needmoreboost6369 CMON, it will be fun they said....lol
Okay but how much overkill is acceptable when choosing a pump?
What do you mean @2.00 minutes when you say you will have no fuel flow into the intake manifold with (40psi) at the injector?... Hypothetically the only way it could completely loose fuel flow is if there's is 40psi of turbo boost already in the intake !!!
It is not very well explained....
He did not setup the scenario properly but you are right. In any instance where the manifold pressure equals fuel rail pressure, there will be no flow of fuel.
lose
Sorie no speak english bye boys