The Hall of Fame is kind of a joke because some of the best players ever aren't in it. It's purely based on whether the voters liked them or not and not actually about stats.
I'm gonna say as an NFL fan that it was a joke that Drew Pearson took way too long to get inducted when he had nothing going against him. I think some voters just don't like certain people for no good reason and that probably applies to MLB as well
@@nobeardthepirate9172 During his prime Delgado had literally the same production as Boston-era David Ortiz. The guy had Alber Pujols-type light tower power. What happened I guess maybe is that Delgado is being unfairly punished for protesting the Iraq War ?? I don't know really know any specifics.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 he only has 2000 hits, not alot of awards, not a good defender. I think that argument is dumb but its what kept him out 470 homers and 1500 rbi should be in.
@@nobeardthepirate9172 Let me help you out my guy: - if you ever see a black or brown big leaguer end up with 470 HR they were literally blackballed. And that's a fact - career hits dont matter in regards to sluggers
Roids do not belong in the HOF. Actions have consequences. MLB banned statuatory illegal substances in the 90s, they didn't have a way to test it, then the MLBPA refused to allow them to. Just because they couldn't test, or wouldn't test doesn't mean it wasn't banned
The HOF already has a bunch of players who have admitted to cheating by various methods throughout their careers. Why only punish steroids users and suspected users?? At least the steroid users had to put in extra time in the gym to recognize gains. Also, they never altered a neutral part of the playing surface like pitchers who have admitted to or been caught doctoring baseballs or using foreign substances. Shouldn't those players be held more in disgrace?
Jim Bouton said in Ball Four "If you had a pill that would guarantee a pitcher twenty wins, but might take five years off his life, he'd take it." PEDs taken by some creates the obligation to be taken by all. Athletes succeed by being competitive.
I'd like to see former players as the main gatekeepers of Cooperstown. Not so much the media. And yeah, that's coming from somebody in the media. 😳 BBWAA is totally fine, they should still have some authority, but maybe just not the front door to HOF.
I would prefer they correct mistakes not involving cheaters or people who broke THE rule in baseball first. There are quite a few guys who deserve enshrinement in the hall who didn't cheat. Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, etc. Then consider guys who cheated. Then for the cheaters, if they get in, make note of their cheating directly on their plaque. And differentiate because some guys have HoF worthy numbers, but no legitimate numbers like McGwire, who cheated his whole career, and some guys were on obvious HoF track prior to when they started cheating like Bonds, who was the best player I ever saw from 1987 til about 1999.
If Salvador Perez gets to 300 HR, something only 7 other Catchers have done in the history of MLB, and he DOESN’T get in then the HOF loses all credibility and is just a popularity contest like the other HOF’s…
@@mtverv Salvador Perez is def a HOF guy. Catchers rarely ever put up those type of numbers. Perez is far more deserving than Joe mauer and Harold Barnes for example.
The fact that writers get to vote on who gets in is crazy. Guys have never played baseball or even good at it. It should be players voting on players who should get in.
My theory, concerning Rose, is .. he's already been voted in by the Veteran's Committee. BUT.... I'm under the stipulation that it won't take effect until AFTER HE PASSES AWAY! The belief behind this is he's been banned for life - life... And by not inducting him during his lifetime it's still keying him know he broke the rules. Once he has passed it would be an "in spite of" move and more the people that loved the guy. Just my opinion/theory. No merit behind hind it for negative discussion.
Great point about emotion. Too many fans think some players don’t care because they don’t show emotion. Agree on Pete 100%. My issue with people like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc. They lied under oath or to the public. If they ADMITTED it and showed a backbone (like Caminiti), Id be okay with voting them in.
Forget the big names here... Harry Stovey. The first player to hit 100 career Homeruns in baseball is not in the HOF. Led league 4x in R & 3B. 5x in HR. 2x in SB... 509 career steals (steals weren't recorded during his first 6 sea) 6 straight sea. Of at least 57 SB. 7 seasons in which he led the league in either HR or SB. Career 45 WAR (419th all-time)
I ran into Pete Rose in Vegas a long time ago. I got to speak with him for about 10 minutes. Great guy. I get that Pete broke the rules but I don't personally care. He was a great ball player. The Hall of Fame is for excellence while playing the game. The HoF is not for being a rule following employee of the month. Pete was an amazing ball player and manager.
Hope that Salvy makes it...Yadier Molina needs to get in but his career is very different than Salvy's. Pérez has a World Series MVP, most HR in a season for a Catcher, and if he keeps his pace going for 4 more years I believe he should get in, not first ballot, but by the end. We need to revalue catchers as well as relievers.
Nah we just need an Asterisk Hall of Fame. Pete Rose should probably be in the real hall of fame but we need to relegate cheaters to the Hall of Fame*. There is literally no consequence otherwise, look at the Astros.
Pete Rose is a, well I don't want to say the word, but he had a morally terrible relationship with a minor who he transported across state lines. I'm good with having NO mention in Cooperstown.
Major League is my second favorite. My #1 bb movie is The Bad News Bears My first year playing organized baseball I plan on a team that was just that bad. Most people admit it that same team that I was from three and 16 to 16 and three and we won the championship the biggest difference our manager was a engineer at du Pont I truly don’t know, but I’m sure he had a few martinis after each game the first year lol
On Altuve, sure for HOF, but him not being involved is nonsense. Even if he said he didn't want the can banged for him, he benefited from run ers on base who did and batters driving him in that did. And he had a bunch of steals, obviously knowing what pitches were coming allowed the team to give him the steal sign when off speed stuff was coming. Also he knew it was happening and rather than stop it or expose the cheating, he let it slide because it benefited him to let his team keep cheating.
I thought the point of the Hall of Fame was to recognize the best players, managers, and contributors to the game from their eras... The fact that Bonds and Clemens weren't 1st ballot HOF's made the HOF look bad enough. But them still not being in completely negates any credibility the HOF had left... Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Mcguire, Bonds, Rodriguez, and Clemens all should be in. Tell their stories and let the fans determine how to view those players' careers... You cant say steroids are cheating and then say doctoring baseballs or using foreign substances is not... For one, doctoring balls and foreign substances involve a player altering the most important and impactful part of the game. A part that is part of the playing surface and is intended to be neutral for both teams. Whereas steroids affect only the individual player and have no impact on any part of the playing surface.
Yeah I don't really support pedos being put on a pedestal. Wander Franco is getting prosecuted because it happened in today's day in age. Otherwise we'd see a few more of these folks going to prison
A lot of people who came from the Mariners were "you either love them or love them." Griffey, Ichiro, Martinez, Buhner, Johnson, Davis, Reynolds, I could go on. Bad apples for sure, but they always seem to just be generally nice.
I e read several debates about Lofton. He blames steroids because it made him not look as good. I’ve seen a few pieces written that say he was great, deserved consideration, but fell short of getting a spot in Cooperstown. I loved watching him play.
@@JakeNaughtFromStateFarm While I realize that Cooperstown likes to reward players who had productive careers spanning 15-20 years- I believe every player who was one of the handful of most exciting players in the game for a decade-plus are HOFs. So to me guys like Lofton, Vizquel, Mattingly, Will Clark are 100% legit Hall of Famers.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 Not saying I disagree, I loved Kenny Lofton. Dude was great to watch. I’m just saying I read some interesting articles about him (as well as other players) that didn’t make it (or make it yet) into the hall. I think the biggest snub right now is Billy Wagner. I think it’s ridiculous he hasn’t made it but they’re rough on relievers.
@@JakeNaughtFromStateFarm 5 Most Deserving future HOFs not named Clemens or Bonds... - Jeff Kent - Kenny Lofton - Carlos Delgado - Jimmy Rollins - Omar Vizquel - Billy Wagner - Will Clark
They won’t put anything along the lines of what players did that have kept them out because the complaints about them not being in then become complaints about what was placed on the plaque.
Andruw Jones has the highest defensive war for any outfielder in the history of baseball but not a lot of people noticed because he always looked relaxed. He also has 434hrs. He should have been in on his first year
@@sir.muffiniii7011 what makes the Manny argument a little tricky is that when Manny broke in there were like steroid teams and then also teams that didn't really do raids like that. So do you penalize a young player for doing what the veterans did ??? Even if it was illegal ???? It's a bit murky. So by the time someone like Pujols broke in the whole league was basically on steroids. It's not fair to the players that's for sure.
You think any rays guys, Longoria? Crawford? KK? Price? Or just too short of careers/not impactful? KK is on that because of all defensive , could defensive stats get you in the hall?
@@ModernCowboy78 bcz a lot of players don’t know abt the advanced stats and stuff, I think they should have a say but then you would have guys like Adam Dunn in the HOF
What about guys who likely didn't do steroids but had their stats affected by juicers? Curt Schilling, Lance Berkman? Would their stats, and others have been significantly better than they already were without their opponents on steroids? I would argue players like that deserve HOF recognition before the juicers. Those who want Bonds and A-Rod and Clemens in the Hall pretend these guys don't exist. Huge oversight in my opinion, therefore keep out the juicers.
Anyone who used roids shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used. Rose is different.....he bet on his team to win. If he had bet for them to lose then I would get it. Basically, if you are cheating to improve your performance, improve your stats then you shouldn't be in, it's not real stats. Betting is just completely different unless you do it and purposely lose.
Anyone who used amphetamines shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used. Anyone who used barbiturates shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used. Anyone who used alcohol shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used. Anyone who used caffeine shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used.
Don't know about alcohol but people who use drugs to enhance their performance is average at best without them. It's just a fact that they wouldn't have the same stats if they did it through real skill instead of using illegal drugs.
@@ex87eme Sure buddy. I guess that's why amphetamines and caffeine aren't considered PEDs... oh, wait, they are and you have no clue what you're talking about.
You can't use a so-called morals clause to keep players out of the Hall of Fame (Bonds etc) and not allow the antithesis of them in either (Dale Murphy)
@@rapalbumdepot7648 He's not officially banned. He's blacklisted by the voters due to an unwritten morals clause that does not go both ways. They refuse to reward tue efforts of a beloved former player who has spent most of his retirement promoting and teaching a clean game to the next generation as an ambassador
@@MbgFire2067 That's my argument. If you won't let him in you might as well let in the cheating garbage In the Cooperstown Tourist Trap. Yes I said it and I mean every word.
I disagree with your point but I understand. I don't think PED users should get into the hof. The way I think about it is that Lance Armstrong doesn't deserve any form of admeration or support for his PED cheating, so why should baseball players? Some may argue that Lance was an outlier but that isn't true. Many other riders also took PEDs and that is why no one is considered a winner during those years. Both sports are an endurance challenge in different ways so why should we give one group who cheats a pass but not the other group? Also in regards to other forms of baseball cheating, while ball doctering and other forms of cheating are semi allowed, PEDs are the biggest one where there is a bigger consequence in allowing those players in as it may encourage players of the game (Professional or not) to partake in PED usage. There are side effects to taking PEDs that other forms of cheating (other than hard drugs) can't compare so to allow PED users to be enshrined and to be admired would be damaging to the integrity and safety of any sport.
I think the line should be if you failed a test while that substance was officially banned. Example, Pete rose knew the consequences and did it anyways. But Bonds’ failed tests were pre-suspensions.
The hall of fame is a joke, as a jays fan guys like Dave Stieb and Carlos Delgado absolutely deserve to be enshrined there but aren't and likely never will be.
@@rcapogarcia Sosa gets in for me because he had multiple 60 HR seasons along with playoff success. He did a lot for the city of Chicago. That's what gets him over the line for me. The David Ortiz loophole
@@rapalbumdepot7648 That shit don't matter. Big Papi did not get in on a loophole. His stats, clutch factor, and 3 rings attest to his prowess. Sure, over-rated because he couldn't play defense, but still super valuable like Edgar Martínez.
@@nobeardthepirate9172 that has nothing to do with what I said, what I said was that he was an awful defender and it hurt his WAR overall bcz he didn’t overcompensate with hitting enough, and 17 WAR is 17 WAR nobody besides maybe a reliever is getting in the hall with that
Rose bet on his team to win. Put him in the HOF! Lots of pro players do roids. They just dont get caught. Sorry to burst your bubble. Bring back roids to baseball. It was way more exciting.
They should put all of them in the Hall of Fame steroid Pete rose, and they just don’t get to come back and be on the stage along with all the endorsements you would receive
Just because you think something happened, or even more likely you WANT it to have happened, doesn’t mean it happened. Proof is required and that will never change.
Sorry, but I disagree. Cheaters don’t belong in the Hall of FAME. I also think the Hall is watered down as well. Too many Hall of Very Good players getting in. If I had my way, there would be players getting removed, not added.
Tell me one Rockies pitcher in the HoF. Inducting hitters from that team's hilarious. They're basically in a AAA environment. Steroids? The Mitchell report had David Ortiz on it. But Selig delayed testing until 2006 to give juicers time to quit. If he's in. Bonds & Clemens NEED to be in.
@HamsterK37 Check every good hitters road/ home split career. In Coors & out. Check their hitters AAA ops versus Coors. It's insane. Best environment in baseball by far.
The Hall of Fame is kind of a joke because some of the best players ever aren't in it. It's purely based on whether the voters liked them or not and not actually about stats.
I'm gonna say as an NFL fan that it was a joke that Drew Pearson took way too long to get inducted when he had nothing going against him. I think some voters just don't like certain people for no good reason and that probably applies to MLB as well
Also worthy of HOF: Carlos Delgado, Kenny Lofton, Roger Clemens, Jimmy Rollins, Adam Dunn, Jeff Kent
@@rapalbumdepot7648 Delgado gets no love, everyone with more homers is either in or a steroid guy.
@@nobeardthepirate9172 During his prime Delgado had literally the same production as Boston-era David Ortiz. The guy had Alber Pujols-type light tower power. What happened I guess maybe is that Delgado is being unfairly punished for protesting the Iraq War ?? I don't know really know any specifics.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 he only has 2000 hits, not alot of awards, not a good defender. I think that argument is dumb but its what kept him out 470 homers and 1500 rbi should be in.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 also shout out Adam Dunn 6 40 homers seasons in a row, something Barry Bonds never did.
@@nobeardthepirate9172 Let me help you out my guy:
- if you ever see a black or brown big leaguer end up with 470 HR they were literally blackballed. And that's a fact
- career hits dont matter in regards to sluggers
Gaylord Perry was notorious for doctoring the ball yet no one questions his HOF status.
Didn't he even write a book admitting it? While still active. HOF is treated so oddly by sports writers.
Bud Selig is in the HOF as Commissioner of the "Roid Era" so why not the players from that ERA.
Watch the Reggie Jackson interview explaining how Selig blocked him buying the Athletics. Selig was corrupt.
The writers didn't put Selig in.
Roids do not belong in the HOF. Actions have consequences. MLB banned statuatory illegal substances in the 90s, they didn't have a way to test it, then the MLBPA refused to allow them to. Just because they couldn't test, or wouldn't test doesn't mean it wasn't banned
PEDs weren’t actually banned until 2005. Fay Vincent himself has corroborated this
The HOF already has a bunch of players who have admitted to cheating by various methods throughout their careers. Why only punish steroids users and suspected users??
At least the steroid users had to put in extra time in the gym to recognize gains. Also, they never altered a neutral part of the playing surface like pitchers who have admitted to or been caught doctoring baseballs or using foreign substances. Shouldn't those players be held more in disgrace?
@@zackabides8270 cause those other methods don't alter your body permanently
Jim Bouton said in Ball Four
"If you had a pill that would guarantee a pitcher twenty wins, but might take five years off his life, he'd take it."
PEDs taken by some creates the obligation to be taken by all. Athletes succeed by being competitive.
I'd like to see former players as the main gatekeepers of Cooperstown. Not so much the media. And yeah, that's coming from somebody in the media. 😳 BBWAA is totally fine, they should still have some authority, but maybe just not the front door to HOF.
I would prefer they correct mistakes not involving cheaters or people who broke THE rule in baseball first. There are quite a few guys who deserve enshrinement in the hall who didn't cheat. Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, etc. Then consider guys who cheated.
Then for the cheaters, if they get in, make note of their cheating directly on their plaque. And differentiate because some guys have HoF worthy numbers, but no legitimate numbers like McGwire, who cheated his whole career, and some guys were on obvious HoF track prior to when they started cheating like Bonds, who was the best player I ever saw from 1987 til about 1999.
Very interesting perspective. Makes more sense than 'yes or no'. Instead of comparing apples to oranges just celebrate the game.
If Salvador Perez gets to 300 HR, something only 7 other Catchers have done in the history of MLB, and he DOESN’T get in then the HOF loses all credibility and is just a popularity contest like the other HOF’s…
As a royals fan salvador has been my favorite player in baseball so I completely agree.
@@mtverv Salvador Perez is def a HOF guy. Catchers rarely ever put up those type of numbers. Perez is far more deserving than Joe mauer and Harold Barnes for example.
The fact that writers get to vote on who gets in is crazy. Guys have never played baseball or even good at it. It should be players voting on players who should get in.
My theory, concerning Rose, is .. he's already been voted in by the Veteran's Committee. BUT.... I'm under the stipulation that it won't take effect until AFTER HE PASSES AWAY! The belief behind this is he's been banned for life - life... And by not inducting him during his lifetime it's still keying him know he broke the rules. Once he has passed it would be an "in spite of" move and more the people that loved the guy. Just my opinion/theory. No merit behind hind it for negative discussion.
Evidence?
@@HamsterK37evidence? For what?
@@terrymyers699 what led you to this theory?
@@HamsterK37 obvious deduction over the years
@@terrymyers699 so, none
Great point about emotion. Too many fans think some players don’t care because they don’t show emotion. Agree on Pete 100%. My issue with people like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc. They lied under oath or to the public. If they ADMITTED it and showed a backbone (like Caminiti), Id be okay with voting them in.
😂 bro so many people did it and didn’t get caught they did
I mean Pete also has relations with a minor
Forget the big names here... Harry Stovey.
The first player to hit 100 career Homeruns in baseball is not in the HOF.
Led league 4x in R & 3B. 5x in HR. 2x in SB...
509 career steals (steals weren't recorded during his first 6 sea)
6 straight sea. Of at least 57 SB.
7 seasons in which he led the league in either HR or SB.
Career 45 WAR (419th all-time)
I ran into Pete Rose in Vegas a long time ago. I got to speak with him for about 10 minutes. Great guy. I get that Pete broke the rules but I don't personally care. He was a great ball player. The Hall of Fame is for excellence while playing the game. The HoF is not for being a rule following employee of the month. Pete was an amazing ball player and manager.
Hope that Salvy makes it...Yadier Molina needs to get in but his career is very different than Salvy's. Pérez has a World Series MVP, most HR in a season for a Catcher, and if he keeps his pace going for 4 more years I believe he should get in, not first ballot, but by the end. We need to revalue catchers as well as relievers.
Nah we just need an Asterisk Hall of Fame. Pete Rose should probably be in the real hall of fame but we need to relegate cheaters to the Hall of Fame*. There is literally no consequence otherwise, look at the Astros.
Hall of Fame need have:
1) Cheaters Wing
2) Degenerate Human Wing
Pete Rose is a, well I don't want to say the word, but he had a morally terrible relationship with a minor who he transported across state lines. I'm good with having NO mention in Cooperstown.
Can you do a video about the all-star Week such as if you did not make the team what do players do. Does if differ on the road vs at home
Major League is my second favorite. My #1 bb movie is The Bad News Bears My first year playing organized baseball I plan on a team that was just that bad. Most people admit it that same team that I was from three and 16 to 16 and three and we won the championship the biggest difference our manager was a engineer at du Pont I truly don’t know, but I’m sure he had a few martinis after each game the first year lol
Can we get back to getting dave steib in there? I feel like jon bois made the case pretty well. Thoughts?
Pete Rose shouldn’t touch the hall of fame with a ten foot pole
the league really did him a solid by publicly making the ban just about his gambling
I predict that after he dies, mlb will allow him in.
@doug2359 iirc wasn't the dude who brought to light the fact that rose was a predator literally the man mlb hired to investigate him for betting
On Altuve, sure for HOF, but him not being involved is nonsense. Even if he said he didn't want the can banged for him, he benefited from run ers on base who did and batters driving him in that did. And he had a bunch of steals, obviously knowing what pitches were coming allowed the team to give him the steal sign when off speed stuff was coming. Also he knew it was happening and rather than stop it or expose the cheating, he let it slide because it benefited him to let his team keep cheating.
it is a hall of fame; not a hall of ethics
I thought the point of the Hall of Fame was to recognize the best players, managers, and contributors to the game from their eras... The fact that Bonds and Clemens weren't 1st ballot HOF's made the HOF look bad enough. But them still not being in completely negates any credibility the HOF had left... Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Mcguire, Bonds, Rodriguez, and Clemens all should be in. Tell their stories and let the fans determine how to view those players' careers...
You cant say steroids are cheating and then say doctoring baseballs or using foreign substances is not... For one, doctoring balls and foreign substances involve a player altering the most important and impactful part of the game. A part that is part of the playing surface and is intended to be neutral for both teams. Whereas steroids affect only the individual player and have no impact on any part of the playing surface.
Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Pete Rose need to be recognized for what they need on the field...
two of those 3 players listed dated underage women. the 3rd beat his wife....great players, bad humans.
Yeah I don't really support pedos being put on a pedestal. Wander Franco is getting prosecuted because it happened in today's day in age. Otherwise we'd see a few more of these folks going to prison
Naw, not if what they did on the field was dependant upon what they did in the shower with their buddy Canseco.
The voting for the HOF needs to be taken away from the cabal of so-called media members, at least partially. Fans need to have input.
@@michaelbaucom4019 go to rebroadcast
I feel like fans would make some awful decisions
@@sir.muffiniii7011 as compared to the so-called experts?! Vox Populi is needed
Have you seen how the public votes for the all-star game? 😅😅
@@HamsterK37 funny, isn't it supposed to be about THE FANS?!
A lot of people who came from the Mariners were "you either love them or love them." Griffey, Ichiro, Martinez, Buhner, Johnson, Davis, Reynolds, I could go on. Bad apples for sure, but they always seem to just be generally nice.
I sat next to Dan Wilson on a redeye to Miami. Really nice guy. Doesn’t snore.
Seahawks legend Bobby Wagner has Trev's vote for the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Kenny Lofton needs another look
@@nickriley3196 The baseball HOF is basically locking Lofton out of Cooperstown because he wasn't as good as Rickey Henderson. It's absurd.
I e read several debates about Lofton. He blames steroids because it made him not look as good. I’ve seen a few pieces written that say he was great, deserved consideration, but fell short of getting a spot in Cooperstown. I loved watching him play.
@@JakeNaughtFromStateFarm While I realize that Cooperstown likes to reward players who had productive careers spanning 15-20 years- I believe every player who was one of the handful of most exciting players in the game for a decade-plus are HOFs. So to me guys like Lofton, Vizquel, Mattingly, Will Clark are 100% legit Hall of Famers.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 Not saying I disagree, I loved Kenny Lofton. Dude was great to watch. I’m just saying I read some interesting articles about him (as well as other players) that didn’t make it (or make it yet) into the hall. I think the biggest snub right now is Billy Wagner. I think it’s ridiculous he hasn’t made it but they’re rough on relievers.
@@JakeNaughtFromStateFarm 5 Most Deserving future HOFs not named Clemens or Bonds...
- Jeff Kent
- Kenny Lofton
- Carlos Delgado
- Jimmy Rollins
- Omar Vizquel
- Billy Wagner
- Will Clark
They won’t put anything along the lines of what players did that have kept them out because the complaints about them not being in then become complaints about what was placed on the plaque.
They need to model the hall of fame after the NHL and have a selection committee of hall of famers instead of media
Here is where it gets tough: Andruw Jones, Will Clark, Manny Ramirez, Don Mattingly
Andruw Jones has the highest defensive war for any outfielder in the history of baseball but not a lot of people noticed because he always looked relaxed. He also has 434hrs. He should have been in on his first year
Manny should be in
Like even with roids he was so good it’s insane
@@sir.muffiniii7011 yeah probably 👍
@@sir.muffiniii7011 what makes the Manny argument a little tricky is that when Manny broke in there were like steroid teams and then also teams that didn't really do raids like that. So do you penalize a young player for doing what the veterans did ??? Even if it was illegal ???? It's a bit murky. So by the time someone like Pujols broke in the whole league was basically on steroids. It's not fair to the players that's for sure.
You think any rays guys, Longoria? Crawford? KK? Price? Or just too short of careers/not impactful? KK is on that because of all defensive , could defensive stats get you in the hall?
did a whole report/presentation in my sports ethics course at FSU and said the same thing. Now the astros on the other hand....
Mark McGwire!
Bruh! Check your Alexa notifications!
How about the writers stop voting and let the HOF members vote.
Nah a lot of players would make crazy decisions
@@sir.muffiniii7011 guys who never play an inning decide on who should be in the hall lol
@@ModernCowboy78 bcz a lot of players don’t know abt the advanced stats and stuff, I think they should have a say but then you would have guys like Adam Dunn in the HOF
What about guys who likely didn't do steroids but had their stats affected by juicers? Curt Schilling, Lance Berkman? Would their stats, and others have been significantly better than they already were without their opponents on steroids? I would argue players like that deserve HOF recognition before the juicers. Those who want Bonds and A-Rod and Clemens in the Hall pretend these guys don't exist. Huge oversight in my opinion, therefore keep out the juicers.
I mean, the only reason Schilling isn't in the Hall of Fame is because he has a hostile relationship with the media
Ok, I know there's no rule that says "with this many Cy Youngs you get in", but if Blank Snell won another one, is he a HoFer?
Anyone who used roids shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used. Rose is different.....he bet on his team to win. If he had bet for them to lose then I would get it. Basically, if you are cheating to improve your performance, improve your stats then you shouldn't be in, it's not real stats. Betting is just completely different unless you do it and purposely lose.
Anyone who used amphetamines shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used.
Anyone who used barbiturates shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used.
Anyone who used alcohol shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used.
Anyone who used caffeine shouldn't be in. More than likely they would never have gotten the stats they got if they hadn't used.
Don't know about alcohol but people who use drugs to enhance their performance is average at best without them. It's just a fact that they wouldn't have the same stats if they did it through real skill instead of using illegal drugs.
@@ex87eme Sure buddy. I guess that's why amphetamines and caffeine aren't considered PEDs... oh, wait, they are and you have no clue what you're talking about.
Dock Ellis belongs in the hall of fame.
NO I don't need to elaborate
I'm a chemist. I'm going to create a new "energy enhancing" substance and I'm going to call it "Tart Cherry Juice". Do you want a cut?
You can't use a so-called morals clause to keep players out of the Hall of Fame (Bonds etc) and not allow the antithesis of them in either (Dale Murphy)
@@briandonegan8480 MLB banning Bonds from the HOF is completely outrageous
@@rapalbumdepot7648 He's not officially banned. He's blacklisted by the voters due to an unwritten morals clause that does not go both ways. They refuse to reward tue efforts of a beloved former player who has spent most of his retirement promoting and teaching a clean game to the next generation as an ambassador
Sorry but Dale Murphy is Hall of Very Good material.
@@MbgFire2067 Dale Murphy- NO / Will Clark-YES / Mattingly- YES
@@MbgFire2067 That's my argument. If you won't let him in you might as well let in the cheating garbage In the Cooperstown Tourist Trap. Yes I said it and I mean every word.
Curt Schilling needs to be in. The voters hate his politics, and that should NOT matter.
Sup trev
how about shoeless?
Altuve didn’t want his shirt removed because of a buzzer. Don’t forget. 🗑️
I disagree with your point but I understand. I don't think PED users should get into the hof.
The way I think about it is that Lance Armstrong doesn't deserve any form of admeration or support for his PED cheating, so why should baseball players?
Some may argue that Lance was an outlier but that isn't true. Many other riders also took PEDs and that is why no one is considered a winner during those years. Both sports are an endurance challenge in different ways so why should we give one group who cheats a pass but not the other group?
Also in regards to other forms of baseball cheating, while ball doctering and other forms of cheating are semi allowed, PEDs are the biggest one where there is a bigger consequence in allowing those players in as it may encourage players of the game (Professional or not) to partake in PED usage. There are side effects to taking PEDs that other forms of cheating (other than hard drugs) can't compare so to allow PED users to be enshrined and to be admired would be damaging to the integrity and safety of any sport.
It’s bcz it wasn’t banned and everyone took them
I think the line should be if you failed a test while that substance was officially banned. Example, Pete rose knew the consequences and did it anyways. But Bonds’ failed tests were pre-suspensions.
The hall of fame is a joke, as a jays fan guys like Dave Stieb and Carlos Delgado absolutely deserve to be enshrined there but aren't and likely never will be.
Alex Rodriguez. Hall of Famer and best player to ever play the game
Yo Trev, do you listen to the band on your hat or do you just wear it bc youre an ex pro?
I actually feel like if Stanton hits 500 HR he will get in
Tim lincecum
Pete Rose Hard No.
Bonds, Manny, A-Rod, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire (iffy), and Canó coming up.
@@rcapogarcia Bonds- YES Alex-YES Manny- that's the tough one Palmeiro-NO Sosa-YES McGwire-NO Cano-NO
@@rcapogarcia Sosa gets in for me because he had multiple 60 HR seasons along with playoff success. He did a lot for the city of Chicago. That's what gets him over the line for me. The David Ortiz loophole
@@rcapogarcia McGwire would get in for me if he played most of his career in one city like Jimmy Rollins or David Ortiz.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 Palmeiro has 600 HR...how can he not be? Cano is second all-time in HR for 2B. He got caught though.
@@rapalbumdepot7648 That shit don't matter. Big Papi did not get in on a loophole. His stats, clutch factor, and 3 rings attest to his prowess. Sure, over-rated because he couldn't play defense, but still super valuable like Edgar Martínez.
Billy Wagner
*Billy Wagner 😂
Adam Dunn should be in, 38th all time in homers.
Horrible defence and only 17 WAR so no
@@sir.muffiniii7011 did Adam Dunn get paid to play defense?
Stop
@@HamsterK37 no.
@@nobeardthepirate9172 that has nothing to do with what I said, what I said was that he was an awful defender and it hurt his WAR overall bcz he didn’t overcompensate with hitting enough, and 17 WAR is 17 WAR nobody besides maybe a reliever is getting in the hall with that
Take away the bbwa votes and allow only living HOFers elect members
Rose bet on his team to win. Put him in the HOF!
Lots of pro players do roids. They just dont get caught. Sorry to burst your bubble. Bring back roids to baseball. It was way more exciting.
How does this logic apply to someone like Jose Altuve? Borderline hall of famer
Altuve isn't borderline. Also I don't think the hall is going to blame Altuve for the Astros cheating. He may not be first ballet, but he will get in.
Create a separate hall for the blatant cheaters and call it the Hall of Asterisks.
STEROIDS BAD
GAMBLING BAD
Amphetamines? LOL, come on in!
They should put all of them in the Hall of Fame steroid Pete rose, and they just don’t get to come back and be on the stage along with all the endorsements you would receive
I won't root for Ohtani till Pete Rose gets in the HoF
Why
@@sir.muffiniii7011 cuz he gambled $144M. If we won't recognize Pete, then we shouldn't recognize Ohtani.
Just because you think something happened, or even more likely you WANT it to have happened, doesn’t mean it happened. Proof is required and that will never change.
@@TrevorMayBaseball so u really think his assistant made all those bets and mlb isn't sweeping it under the rug to save their new cash cow?
@@mcleod_aka_doom1961 there is zero proof of ohtani doing that and Pete Rose also had a relationship with a minor
Sorry, but I disagree. Cheaters don’t belong in the Hall of FAME. I also think the Hall is watered down as well. Too many Hall of Very Good players getting in. If I had my way, there would be players getting removed, not added.
Who is hall of very good that is in right now
What do you consider “cheating” though? Is a spitballer a cheater? Do sticky stuff suspensions disqualify you?
Tell me one Rockies pitcher in the HoF. Inducting hitters from that team's hilarious. They're basically in a AAA environment.
Steroids? The Mitchell report had David Ortiz on it. But Selig delayed testing until 2006 to give juicers time to quit. If he's in. Bonds & Clemens NEED to be in.
If you look at OPS+ for most Rockies hitters in the HOF they match up with everyone else
How are they in a "Triple A" environment?
@HamsterK37 Check every good hitters road/ home split career. In Coors & out. Check their hitters AAA ops versus Coors. It's insane. Best environment in baseball by far.
Greg Maddux didn't scuff balls. He got lots of ground outs and was able to reuse the balls until they were fouled into the stands.
Bruh! Check your Alexa notifications!