pro tip: before installing the side cover on the gen set, remove any shipping tags and such that may fall off and get sucked into the cooling fan. The factory has that yellow tag on a string, then there's the plastic tag on the battery cable. Also be aware that when setting up the controller, it has a clock on military time. If you want an afternoon exercise you gotta get the clock right or it will run at 3 am! (instead of 1500 hours)
24:30 - And that boys and girls is why push-in and/or spring-loaded connectors should NEVER be used for electrical. Taking 2 wires and soldering them together is the same as cramming 2 wires into 1 terminal. Does it work? Yes. Did you just free up a terminal for adding another wire? No. That stupid connector has 2 wire terminals per button and you have just created 2 different-sized wires, so no matter how much you fiddle with it, the smaller wire will always be loose. Keep the sparking and arcing away from any gas vapors building up in the generator cabinet. Easy fix: wire nuts. Ditch the push-in connectors and stick the wires in water-resistant wire nuts. That will isolate your electrical connections from condensation and any flammable gas vapors. Or hell, Wagos will do the job and let you test each wire for good connectivity. To each their own.
Have you seen any failures with the Polaris connectors you’ve installed? I have seen a lot of Thermal issues with those, when we see them in the field during PM’s we IR scan them and switch them out with Burndy Connectors if there’s any signs of overheating.
Question…I have a generac generator, I’m 170’ away from my ATS…is it code to have the disconnect next to the generator that you installed? I don’t have one, and my ATS, is my main disconnect, as I don’t have one installed inside the house..maybe just code requirement differences?
@@michaelsaucier5633 ... if that gen was made in the last 5 years it already has the switch on the back of the cabinet, right above where those wires go in. Generac doesn't offer a kit, but you could add a switch and ground out the oil pressure wire, which will put a stop to the engine within 10 seconds. (hard fault so no restart)
@@rupe53 That switch on the back does not satisfy 445..18(B) as a replacement for an additional disconnect because it cannot be locked in the open position. Only an Estop can do that.
I work for Dowdy here in Indy and we do a decent amount of generator installs and we run gas as well. Fun fact on generac generators you don’t have to put a drip leg on the outside because they have a drip leg inside the generators right next to the plenum. Koehler generators on the other hand you do have to install a drip leg.
Would the generator output not go on the line side of the disconnect since it is the power source (Line) How it got configured was load (back to transfer switch) was on the top side of the disconnect
I have a similar installation coming up and I just wanted to confirm. E feed is protected by a 100A/2P at the generator with a feeder sized accordingly. Feed from utility is protected by a 200A/2P at the SUSE ATS and sized accordingly. Feed from the output of the ATS is 3/0 Cu or 4/0 Al to the panel which has a 200A MCB, correct?
Thanks guys. great stuff here. Id be tempted to replace those entire push in terminal blocks with standard insolated/insulated screw down terminal blocks if it wasn't a warranty issue! Generac recall!? That part was hard to watch. Generators vibrate! Id say thats worse than backstabbing an outlet. At a minimum go back and get the wires spliced so there is only 2 per terminal not 3 as shown. So the top is 1 conductor and the bottom is 1 conductor to even out the spring connection. Not sure how that flies as a good connection with how easy it came out! Service calls coming your way soon!?
Finally finishing the series! Amazing work, seems so weird seeing this whole electrical fitting as someone from the EU (Italy), but it's always interesting seeing how different countries do their electrical work It's also crazy seeing people installing generators for their own house, really speaks about the trust people have in the US grid and I understand that after seeing what happened in Texas not too long ago.. Never seen a generator being installed at any house over on this side of the pond really
It isn't about trust, it's about tornados, ice storms, cold snaps in places that never see more than a few days of freezing. The grid is very reliable in the US, it's the more local wires that are always at risk.
@@ronaldwojtylko4375 yeah the distribution part of the grid is not trustworthy I guess. We fortunately don’t have that problem over here and the Italian distributor is also working non stop in all of the country to keep upgrading their network and to be ready for electric vehicles and such
Joel, I enjoy your videos but you have the line and load side wrong on that disconnect. Not sure why you need the disconnect there is one built into the generator
Some local codes haven't caught up with the times, because that's actually for the fire department. The new NFPA code calls for an external shutdown switch, which is on the back of the cabinet. Technically that switch makes the extra cut-out switch redundant, except for the fact that it can be locked. BTW, if the gen cabinet is locked then the FD can't use the internal breaker, hence the code. When I was teaching in the fire service, I always told the guys to turn off the gas. No gas = no run!
@@Kangenpower7 ... shutting off the gas for the house is usually a good idea during a fire, but I was specifically addressing the question of the generator. All appliances are supposed to have a gas valve within arm's reach of the unit, no matter the type of supply. After spending decades in the fire service plus 23 years doing gen sets, my advice was to always kill the fuel for the appliance in question. If you need more, that's available too. BTW, I also spend 10 years doing HVAC, so have a well rounded education for this stuff.
Hi bro! Thanks man! NEC 2020 445.18 Disconnecting Means and Emergency Shutdown. (A) Disconnecting Means. Generators other than cord-and plug-connected portable generators shall have one or more disconnecting means. Each disconnecting means shall simultaneously open all associated ungrounded conductors. Each disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25. I wouldn't consider the breaker built into the generator to be lockable unless possibly if it were supplied with a breaker kit for that purpose.
My Generac dealer installed a surge protector at the transfer panel. Does that also provide protection for the circuit breaker panel downstream, or should the panel, ideally, have its own surge protector?
@@ElectricProAcademy ... with the TS as your main disconnect there's no place to install a breaker for a surge protector. It will need to be at the main panel in that case.
Even if the disconnect is not required, it’s a good idea and it looks great. It’s simple for the fire department and provides a cabinet for transition to liquid tight. Great series! About duct seal, when I did my service upgrade, inspector was all about me putting it in so have no fear, at least one house has it.
14:30. #2 ALU is good for 90 amps, per Table 310.16, 75° column. It's only good for 100 amps using Article 310.12 Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, service and feeder conductors supplied by a single-phase, 120/240-volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (D).
The gen set has a 125 amp breaker and the set can supply about 100 amps per leg so probably fine. On natural gas the thing will start load shedding up near 90 amps anyway.
@@donl1410 ; I recently installed a 125 Amp 120/240 VAC Feeder from a 200 Amp 120/240 VAC Main Panel to a Sub Panel in a Utility Room . I ran 65' of SE Cable composed of Three 1/0 AL conductors for the Phases and the Neutral and One #2 AL for EGC. in a New 1,800 sq.ft home.
@@BearStar1 If the calculated load is 120 amps or less, then this is compliant for a subpanel that does not service a complete dwelling (1/0 alu is good for 120 amps but can be protected by a 125 amp breaker by Article 240.4(B), Overcurrent Devices Rated 800 Amperes or Less. Article 310.12 Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. Table 310.12(A) Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders provides conductor sizing for services and feeders for a complete dwelling.
I've never soldered stranded control wires to fit this in a termination, seems like a lot of extra work when you could just crimp a ferrule connection on. Can't see any benefits of soldering over crimping, anyone wanna set me straight?
That disconnect off the generator, shouldn’t your feed off the generator be at the top of Disconnect (which would be LINE). And then it goes thru the disconnect (to LOAD) which feeds the “EM” terminals at your transfer switch. Looks like disconnect is wired wrong. Will work but not correct.
I think learning the terms "goes-into" and "goes-out-to" ("gozinta/gozoutta") at ~27:35 may have been the best part of this video, lol I'm gonna start using those terms
15:30 my favorite tool for cutting that stuff by far is one of those PVC pipe cutters where you put the pipe in and squeeze it. Although definitely get something that's not made of plastic, one too many uses on the one I was using or miss using depending on opinions. It also works really good on LMR400.
I was a '' Strategic Microwave Tele Communications Systems Tech '' MOS 26V in the U.S. Army Signal Corps USACC for almost 9 years ! I had training in Basic Electronics and Microwave Radio Systems and learned how to Solder & De-Solder. I have also built numerous Electronic Kits by Heath Electronics and built my own Test Meters, Signal Generators, Signal Tracers, and various TMDE and have done Radio and TV Repair also.
@@ElectricProAcademy ; No as I'm semi retired at 72 years of age. Retired from the Federal Fire Service DOD in August 2003 with 30 years of service and I'm still doing Electrical work now & then . It's hard to quit something that I have been doing for more than 55 years that I love doing !
Definitely I would ferrules those control stranded wires tinning wires though old fashioned will work as long as they are done well I suppose generac also suggests tinning
Tinned wires under screw terminals are a bad idea. The solder will allow cold flow allowing the connections to loosen over time. Ferrules are a better idea.
@@atschirner cold flow will occur with all wires and including even when there are ferrules though I agree the risk is slightly less - cold flow is a risk whenever compression force is used. What you really want is Generac to certify those connection compression blocks are fully sealed to avoid migration of explosive gases. Cold flow is definitely a much bigger issue in hazardous or explosive environments. One could argue that a generator could create that environment potentially. Aluminum suffers much greater cold flow issue than copper with the potential for metal oxide layers to build up resulting in greater heat under load and increase in contact resistance.
I wonder why the power line going To the transfer switch is feeding the top of the disconnect box? I would want the power going into the disconnect to be on the top, and the wiring going out to the transfer switch going out the bottom. You are confusing me! In other words, if the generator is running, and the disconnect is off, there will be power to the bottom of the disconnect, and not to the top of the disconnect. If you where wiring a air conditioner, or other appliance, then the wire from the panel goes into the top, and the feed to the appliance goes into the bottom of the disconnect. The generator is not a appliance taking in power. It is putting out power, and thus needs to feed the top of the disconnect. I wonder how many others made this comment? It shows you posted this video 11 hours ago. 54 comments.
I was watching the video a second time, and see that you have 240 volts running to the generator for the auto start function, and to charge the battery, run those two heaters. Should that tiny 240 volt electric power to the generator have a disconnect means? Or 240 volt 3 or 4 pole disconnect to shut off power to the generator to service something? I realize most communication wires are not high voltage, but do not know for sure with this generator and transfer switch. They might be running 120 volts, just because they are all running in the same wire as the 240 volt wires that power the charger and electric heaters. I think I remember a 240 volt disconnect next to my 1,000,000 watt diesel generator at the retirement home I worked at several years ago. This powered the charger and block heater. There was no external disconnect for the high voltage leaving the generator. It was installed in Oregon in 2000. So the codes may have upgraded since that time.
The customer is utilizing the pre-existing gas service to supply the generator. When available there are many advantages over new propane service. The risk comes from an electrical outage which also disrupts the gas service -- such as an earthquake. He's an engineer so I'm sure he has factored all of that into his decision making. 😉
When soldering wire, be sure to clean any flux after done as flux is corrosive. There are a number of sources that recommend against the practice of tinning wire under a terminal since the solder can crack under compression potentially loosening over time. Additionally solder becomes a barrier between the screw and copper.
Joel, You cannot use type TC cable for the control wires for the generator. This job would not pass in the State of Delaware jurisdiction. Please see article 336 TC there is an exception 336 (9) but the TC cable would have to contain both power and control conductors. This cable is made specifically for generator installations. You should have used Romex on the inside and then transform to THWN wires for the outside portion to the generator on the control wires.
Question and observation.....I always thought the generator battery should be extended to inside the house. That way it's safer from the elements and the environment that it sits in is constant. Almost like vehicles having the battery in the trunk and connected to the engine in the front of the vehicle.
On Generac generators I’ve never seen a battery in bad condition (such as acid build up on terminals like you see in vehicles) other than old age they hold up pretty well. Definitely not a bad observation though.
@@CreekStomper ... there's another reason you seldom see those problems on a generator these days. In that kind of service, a battery is not subject to any deep cycles from accessory draw, so the internals are less active, which means less internal gassing. The same goes for having built in battery charging / maintaining. It's also not subject to driving over potholes. (less vibration) Last but not least, the batteries are made better now and hardly leak around the terminals like they did years ago.
A survivors mindset. What for? I have no clue. Gotta be comfy when thing are going wrong. I'd be just as happy having a 1kW fridge and would nee and noting more, No need to shower or dry my clothes when the power is out. Gluttony.
in for a penny, in for a pound. A good portion of the expense is the labor so might as well go whole hog in an area prone to outages. Frozen pipes and spoiled food are not cheap... and that area does get really cold in the winter.
Tom should have saved his money and got an interlock and a cheap dual fuel generator or perhaps a sponsored solar generator like Joel installed in his home. The cost and maintenance of that Generac system is just not worth the number of times he will likely lose power in its lifetime. Texas lost power in 2021 because of a natural gas outage. Karma has just guaranteed that Tom and his neighbors will not see serious long term power outage for years. Get a UPS to backup your internet and other critical electronic devices to give you enough time to drag out and plug in a propane powered generator.
That's what I did, lost power 6 times in 2021, finally threw in the towel. Got an interlock and Firman tri-fuel from Costco, and of course have not lost power since. Turns out the old folks in my neighborhood starting writing letters, calling, and complaining to anyone that would listen. DTE finally got off their butts and did some maintenance and tree trimming.
@@wills2262 LOL, I recently thanked my neighbor who just installed a generac last year, we got a nasty windstorm last month, only lost power for a few minutes at a time my and my UPS was all I needed to keep my computer and internet up and running. Bought an Ebay Black Friday $500 10KW dual fuel generator a 5 years ago it has kept me up and running in the bigger storms. I run propane if the power is only out for a little bit or switch to Gas if I know it is one of those long haul events it runs the whole house even AC.
@@rupe53 Antifreeze in a boiler. Shut off, drain your water, put RV antifreeze in toilet and sink/traps, if you are that concerned when going away, that is what I did when I lost power for a week in my house before I got my generator. Running a standby generator for a week straight is not exactly a good option either.
So, I don't know if you remember, but just a couple,of weeks ago we had another big freeze here in Texas, with lots of power lines knocked down by ice-heavy tree limbs, and Austin alone had over 50% of the customers in the city offline as a result. We didn't have loss of power generation this time, but there were a shipload of lines taken out. We had crews from all over the state and out of state coming in to help with the repairs, and it took days to get everyone back online. So, I would not call this a bad investment. Looks like mega freezes and power outages are going to become the new normal, every year here in Texas,
Even though Gas is nice , I myself prefer ALL ELECTRIC ! As a Retired Federal Firefighter DOD with 30 years of Service and a Licensed Journeyman Electrician with over 55 years in the trade , I have seen too many House Fires due to Gas Leaks and people having to go to ER's because of CO Poisoning from Gas Leaks in Furnaces and Hot Water Heaters ! Propane or Natural Gas is OK for Outside Back Up Emergency Generator Systems , but not for Whole House HVAC systems , Ranges for Cooking and Hot Water Heaters !
Whats your solution for maintaining A safe gas/propane home ? Maybe purchase gas/propane detector and place it nearby to appliances ? Have a qualified plumber do a two yearly gas/propane connection routine check . Its a fact that most homeowners neglect their smoke detectors and don’t replace them when it has expired . Im interested in solutions . What are yours ?
here you are complaining that it's dangerous, yet I don't recall any mention of when gas might be used for inside the home. Isn't this a little off topic for the video? (retired Deputy Chief and state fire instructor, plus 25 years installing gen sets, plus a gas license on my end) BTW, I would suspect the house is all gas inside, based on the meter size, which makes me wonder why such a big gen set.
@@rupe53 Yeah I was thinking the same thing too, if all his major appliances are gas, that 24 kw might be overkill. But if you got money more power to you.
So, that's what he installed. An outside emergency gas-powered generator. I'm not seeing what the problem is here. Are you complaining about his existing gas-powered equipment inside the house, which wasn't touched as part of this installation?
@@benjaminvivar7855 ... another thing they didn't mention is that gen set might have had a price advantage. The difference between a 17Kw and a 24Kw isn't all that much, and rather than stock another unit some dealers might give a break. I also know that at one point Generac was offering a 10 year extended warranty on that unit so maybe they did it again? The guy is also an engineer so maybe he's planning to charge his future Tesla?
local code may not allow it. In some areas it's required to switch the neutral, but then you'd need to run a ground back to the transfer switch. (more cost too)
@@Kangenpower7 ... there are exceptions to that neutral switching, (not shutting off) although that may have changed since I retired. Some automatic transfer switches actually had a delayed switching of the neutral to make sure there were no spikes on the legs. I recall going around on that subject with an inspector some 15 years ago. It was in the boondocks of upstate NY.
pro tip: before installing the side cover on the gen set, remove any shipping tags and such that may fall off and get sucked into the cooling fan. The factory has that yellow tag on a string, then there's the plastic tag on the battery cable. Also be aware that when setting up the controller, it has a clock on military time. If you want an afternoon exercise you gotta get the clock right or it will run at 3 am! (instead of 1500 hours)
this series was fun to watch. Tom's knowledge and sense of humor coupled with Joel's was awesome to see.
24:30 - And that boys and girls is why push-in and/or spring-loaded connectors should NEVER be used for electrical. Taking 2 wires and soldering them together is the same as cramming 2 wires into 1 terminal. Does it work? Yes. Did you just free up a terminal for adding another wire? No. That stupid connector has 2 wire terminals per button and you have just created 2 different-sized wires, so no matter how much you fiddle with it, the smaller wire will always be loose. Keep the sparking and arcing away from any gas vapors building up in the generator cabinet.
Easy fix: wire nuts. Ditch the push-in connectors and stick the wires in water-resistant wire nuts. That will isolate your electrical connections from condensation and any flammable gas vapors. Or hell, Wagos will do the job and let you test each wire for good connectivity. To each their own.
Have you seen any failures with the Polaris connectors you’ve installed? I have seen a lot of Thermal issues with those, when we see them in the field during PM’s we IR scan them and switch them out with Burndy Connectors if there’s any signs of overheating.
Question…I have a generac generator, I’m 170’ away from my ATS…is it code to have the disconnect next to the generator that you installed? I don’t have one, and my ATS, is my main disconnect, as I don’t have one installed inside the house..maybe just code requirement differences?
Install an Estop kit, by code no additional disconnect required. Certain jurisdictions may still require it but code is satisfied with the Estop.
@@michaelsaucier5633 ... if that gen was made in the last 5 years it already has the switch on the back of the cabinet, right above where those wires go in. Generac doesn't offer a kit, but you could add a switch and ground out the oil pressure wire, which will put a stop to the engine within 10 seconds. (hard fault so no restart)
@@rupe53 That switch on the back does not satisfy 445..18(B) as a replacement for an additional disconnect because it cannot be locked in the open position. Only an Estop can do that.
:P Lame OCD homeowner. nothing any more than that.
I work for Dowdy here in Indy and we do a decent amount of generator installs and we run gas as well. Fun fact on generac generators you don’t have to put a drip leg on the outside because they have a drip leg inside the generators right next to the plenum. Koehler generators on the other hand you do have to install a drip leg.
The "notch" was clever, but a plumber would have just installed a union.
Or rolled the pipe to the wall
@@donl1410 ... that flex pipe has a union type connection already and it does bend.
But that will be another place for a leak to happen.
@@Natsumidragneelkim .... it's code to have a union near the generator. (and a flex pipe) If done properly there will be no leaks.
Would the generator output not go on the line side of the disconnect since it is the power source (Line) How it got configured was load (back to transfer switch) was on the top side of the disconnect
I agree. It seems backwards to me as well.
I don’t think this was supposed to be linked yet from the last video… but First I guess
Wow I've never seen '' The Generator Dance '' before Awesome series Joel , Tom & Crew ... Thx ... Please make more vid's Joel ...
Haha, we had to include it!
Also what code made you put the disconnect in for the generator feed ? I can't see where it's needed ?
In the marine industry we us ferrules rather than tinning the ends of war for positive connections
Hey, thanks for the shout out! Somebody let me know about this video, I hadn't seen it until now. Hope you're doing well!
I have a similar installation coming up and I just wanted to confirm. E feed is protected by a 100A/2P at the generator with a feeder sized accordingly. Feed from utility is protected by a 200A/2P at the SUSE ATS and sized accordingly. Feed from the output of the ATS is 3/0 Cu or 4/0 Al to the panel which has a 200A MCB, correct?
Thanks guys. great stuff here. Id be tempted to replace those entire push in terminal blocks with standard insolated/insulated screw down terminal blocks if it wasn't a warranty issue! Generac recall!? That part was hard to watch. Generators vibrate! Id say thats worse than backstabbing an outlet. At a minimum go back and get the wires spliced so there is only 2 per terminal not 3 as shown. So the top is 1 conductor and the bottom is 1 conductor to even out the spring connection. Not sure how that flies as a good connection with how easy it came out! Service calls coming your way soon!?
Finally finishing the series! Amazing work, seems so weird seeing this whole electrical fitting as someone from the EU (Italy), but it's always interesting seeing how different countries do their electrical work
It's also crazy seeing people installing generators for their own house, really speaks about the trust people have in the US grid and I understand that after seeing what happened in Texas not too long ago.. Never seen a generator being installed at any house over on this side of the pond really
It isn't about trust, it's about tornados, ice storms, cold snaps in places that never see more than a few days of freezing. The grid is very reliable in the US, it's the more local wires that are always at risk.
@@ronaldwojtylko4375 yeah the distribution part of the grid is not trustworthy I guess. We fortunately don’t have that problem over here and the Italian distributor is also working non stop in all of the country to keep upgrading their network and to be ready for electric vehicles and such
Have a question. What control wires charge the battery and I’m assuming the charging power comes from the transfer sw?
Wire ferrules are a great alternative to soldering they have a plastic cover that covers that the stripped end. Great job and vedios. Thanks
Joel, I enjoy your videos but you have the line and load side wrong on that disconnect. Not sure why you need the disconnect there is one built into the generator
Good catch !
Some local codes haven't caught up with the times, because that's actually for the fire department. The new NFPA code calls for an external shutdown switch, which is on the back of the cabinet. Technically that switch makes the extra cut-out switch redundant, except for the fact that it can be locked. BTW, if the gen cabinet is locked then the FD can't use the internal breaker, hence the code. When I was teaching in the fire service, I always told the guys to turn off the gas. No gas = no run!
@@rupe53, I agree, shutting off the gas to a house that is on fire is always a good idea, propane or natural gas!
@@Kangenpower7 ... shutting off the gas for the house is usually a good idea during a fire, but I was specifically addressing the question of the generator. All appliances are supposed to have a gas valve within arm's reach of the unit, no matter the type of supply. After spending decades in the fire service plus 23 years doing gen sets, my advice was to always kill the fuel for the appliance in question. If you need more, that's available too. BTW, I also spend 10 years doing HVAC, so have a well rounded education for this stuff.
Hi bro! Thanks man! NEC 2020 445.18 Disconnecting Means and Emergency Shutdown.
(A) Disconnecting Means. Generators other than cord-and plug-connected portable generators shall have one or more
disconnecting means. Each disconnecting means shall simultaneously open all associated ungrounded conductors. Each
disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with
110.25.
I wouldn't consider the breaker built into the generator to be lockable unless possibly if it were supplied with a breaker kit for that purpose.
My Generac dealer installed a surge protector at the transfer panel. Does that also provide protection for the circuit breaker panel downstream, or should the panel, ideally, have its own surge protector?
surge protector goes to the main panel in the home and guards against odd spikes coming in on the utility lines.
The more surge devices the better, however, 1 nearest the main point of power entry is ideal and required by the 2020 National Electrical Code.
@@ElectricProAcademy ... with the TS as your main disconnect there's no place to install a breaker for a surge protector. It will need to be at the main panel in that case.
Gas pipes located outdoors should not have any drip connection if the gas line is subject to freezing.
Even if the disconnect is not required, it’s a good idea and it looks great. It’s simple for the fire department and provides a cabinet for transition to liquid tight. Great series!
About duct seal, when I did my service upgrade, inspector was all about me putting it in so have no fear, at least one house has it.
Aat 5:34 you say "load side of disco." Wouldnt that be the line side connecting to the power source?
14:30. #2 ALU is good for 90 amps, per Table 310.16, 75° column. It's only good for 100 amps using Article 310.12 Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For one-family dwellings and the individual dwelling units of two-family and multifamily dwellings, service and feeder conductors supplied by a single-phase, 120/240-volt system shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.12(A) through (D).
The gen set has a 125 amp breaker and the set can supply about 100 amps per leg so probably fine. On natural gas the thing will start load shedding up near 90 amps anyway.
@@rupe53 Probably fine, but the info and code statements he made needed to be addressed. #1 ALU conductors should have been used for 100 amps.
@@donl1410 ... I would agree, especially now that I think of the long wire run. (100 feet or so if I recall right)
@@donl1410 ; I recently installed a 125 Amp 120/240 VAC Feeder from a 200 Amp 120/240 VAC Main Panel to a Sub Panel in a Utility Room . I ran 65' of SE Cable composed of Three 1/0 AL conductors for the Phases and the Neutral and One #2 AL for EGC. in a New 1,800 sq.ft home.
@@BearStar1 If the calculated load is 120 amps or less, then this is compliant for a subpanel that does not service a complete dwelling (1/0 alu is good for 120 amps but can be protected by a 125 amp breaker by Article 240.4(B), Overcurrent Devices Rated 800 Amperes or Less.
Article 310.12 Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. Table 310.12(A) Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders provides conductor sizing for services and feeders for a complete dwelling.
Could you ferrule the control cables instead of soldering and be code compliant?
I've never soldered stranded control wires to fit this in a termination, seems like a lot of extra work when you could just crimp a ferrule connection on. Can't see any benefits of soldering over crimping, anyone wanna set me straight?
Crimping is more common! I'm with you, but trying different things on for size is fun!
Very nice work for stranded wire rather then solder use bootlace ferrules
What is code for distance generator from ignition source?
Why would somebody drill through a perfectly innocent pipe minding its own business.....
My guilt was palpable!
Part 1: ua-cam.com/video/VHgPeK_h4Wk/v-deo.html
That disconnect off the generator, shouldn’t your feed off the generator be at the top of Disconnect (which would be LINE). And then it goes thru the disconnect (to LOAD) which feeds the “EM” terminals at your transfer switch. Looks like disconnect is wired wrong. Will work but not correct.
technically you are correct.
Ferrules. Instead of solder tinning.
Thanks for the video 👍
I think the rough initial start on the generator is due to mixed fuel and air in the line. Fine, going forward, if so.
yes, you are exactly right. That's what I see on almost every new start, and I did that for almost 25 years.
Sorry Joel, but the “shiners” on your control conductor terminations bother me.
me too Bruce. me too
I think learning the terms "goes-into" and "goes-out-to" ("gozinta/gozoutta") at ~27:35 may have been the best part of this video, lol
I'm gonna start using those terms
15:30 my favorite tool for cutting that stuff by far is one of those PVC pipe cutters where you put the pipe in and squeeze it. Although definitely get something that's not made of plastic, one too many uses on the one I was using or miss using depending on opinions. It also works really good on LMR400.
Soldering connections, in NEC Is in the state of flux
Soldered connections for stranded wire such as Tom application Is safe and improvement.
Dont most standby generators have a disconnect built into them? So the outdoor disconnect you installed is redundant?
Yes, but the AHJ gets final say. In our case, they want the consistency of a mounted, single-throw-handle disconnect.
@@ElectricProAcademy ah makes sense!
Wish I lived closer, I'd apply!
You mentioned using liquidtight for vibration, looking at that tight short gas flex worries me more 😂
please dont cut anything on your knees, it has arterial vein.
Interesting. Are you saying that there's an increased risk of deadly shock due to a highway to the heart?
I'm pretty sure Tom is my spirit animal.
YEESSS
I was a '' Strategic Microwave Tele Communications Systems Tech '' MOS 26V in the U.S. Army Signal Corps USACC for almost 9 years ! I had training in Basic Electronics and Microwave Radio Systems and learned how to Solder & De-Solder. I have also built numerous Electronic Kits by Heath Electronics and built my own Test Meters, Signal Generators, Signal Tracers, and various TMDE and have done Radio and TV Repair also.
Looking for a job?! jeffersonelectricllc.com/career/
@@ElectricProAcademy ; No as I'm semi retired at 72 years of age. Retired from the Federal Fire Service DOD in August 2003 with 30 years of service and I'm still doing Electrical work now & then . It's hard to quit something that I have been doing for more than 55 years that I love doing !
Definitely I would ferrules those control stranded wires tinning wires though old fashioned will work as long as they are done well I suppose generac also suggests tinning
Tinned wires under screw terminals are a bad idea. The solder will allow cold flow allowing the connections to loosen over time. Ferrules are a better idea.
@@atschirner cold flow will occur with all wires and including even when there are ferrules though I agree the risk is slightly less - cold flow is a risk whenever compression force is used. What you really want is Generac to certify those connection compression blocks are fully sealed to avoid migration of explosive gases. Cold flow is definitely a much bigger issue in hazardous or explosive environments. One could argue that a generator could create that environment potentially. Aluminum suffers much greater cold flow issue than copper with the potential for metal oxide layers to build up resulting in greater heat under load and increase in contact resistance.
I wonder why the power line going To the transfer switch is feeding the top of the disconnect box? I would want the power going into the disconnect to be on the top, and the wiring going out to the transfer switch going out the bottom. You are confusing me!
In other words, if the generator is running, and the disconnect is off, there will be power to the bottom of the disconnect, and not to the top of the disconnect.
If you where wiring a air conditioner, or other appliance, then the wire from the panel goes into the top, and the feed to the appliance goes into the bottom of the disconnect. The generator is not a appliance taking in power. It is putting out power, and thus needs to feed the top of the disconnect.
I wonder how many others made this comment? It shows you posted this video 11 hours ago. 54 comments.
I was watching the video a second time, and see that you have 240 volts running to the generator for the auto start function, and to charge the battery, run those two heaters. Should that tiny 240 volt electric power to the generator have a disconnect means? Or 240 volt 3 or 4 pole disconnect to shut off power to the generator to service something? I realize most communication wires are not high voltage, but do not know for sure with this generator and transfer switch. They might be running 120 volts, just because they are all running in the same wire as the 240 volt wires that power the charger and electric heaters. I think I remember a 240 volt disconnect next to my 1,000,000 watt diesel generator at the retirement home I worked at several years ago. This powered the charger and block heater. There was no external disconnect for the high voltage leaving the generator. It was installed in Oregon in 2000. So the codes may have upgraded since that time.
In our territory the top side of the disconnect is always the power utility even in cases of generator and photovoltaic disconnects.
That's a very interesting consideration. I'll be thinking that over.
The customer is utilizing the pre-existing gas service to supply the generator. When available there are many advantages over new propane service. The risk comes from an electrical outage which also disrupts the gas service -- such as an earthquake. He's an engineer so I'm sure he has factored all of that into his decision making. 😉
I don't think earthquakes are a worry in that area.
He didn’t factor in the super volcano at Yosemite erupting 🙄
@@speednutsII ... oh crap, better install a tank farm with a year's supply of propane instead!
When soldering wire, be sure to clean any flux after done as flux is corrosive. There are a number of sources that recommend against the practice of tinning wire under a terminal since the solder can crack under compression potentially loosening over time. Additionally solder becomes a barrier between the screw and copper.
Joel, You cannot use type TC cable for the control wires for the generator. This job would not pass in the State of Delaware jurisdiction. Please see article 336 TC there is an exception 336 (9) but the TC cable would have to contain both power and control conductors. This cable is made specifically for generator installations. You should have used Romex on the inside and then transform to THWN wires for the outside portion to the generator on the control wires.
Question and observation.....I always thought the generator battery should be extended to inside the house. That way it's safer from the elements and the environment that it sits in is constant. Almost like vehicles having the battery in the trunk and connected to the engine in the front of the vehicle.
there are limits as to how long battery cables can be and the engineers want it where it is now. DC power is not like AC power.
On Generac generators I’ve never seen a battery in bad condition (such as acid build up on terminals like you see in vehicles) other than old age they hold up pretty well. Definitely not a bad observation though.
@@CreekStomper ... there's another reason you seldom see those problems on a generator these days. In that kind of service, a battery is not subject to any deep cycles from accessory draw, so the internals are less active, which means less internal gassing. The same goes for having built in battery charging / maintaining. It's also not subject to driving over potholes. (less vibration) Last but not least, the batteries are made better now and hardly leak around the terminals like they did years ago.
A survivors mindset. What for? I have no clue. Gotta be comfy when thing are going wrong. I'd be just as happy having a 1kW fridge and would nee and noting more, No need to shower or dry my clothes when the power is out. Gluttony.
in for a penny, in for a pound. A good portion of the expense is the labor so might as well go whole hog in an area prone to outages. Frozen pipes and spoiled food are not cheap... and that area does get really cold in the winter.
Tom experienced so many power outages in a high wind storm shortly after the generator was installed. Best believe he was feeling very happy!
Tom should have saved his money and got an interlock and a cheap dual fuel generator or perhaps a sponsored solar generator like Joel installed in his home. The cost and maintenance of that Generac system is just not worth the number of times he will likely lose power in its lifetime. Texas lost power in 2021 because of a natural gas outage. Karma has just guaranteed that Tom and his neighbors will not see serious long term power outage for years. Get a UPS to backup your internet and other critical electronic devices to give you enough time to drag out and plug in a propane powered generator.
That's what I did, lost power 6 times in 2021, finally threw in the towel. Got an interlock and Firman tri-fuel from Costco, and of course have not lost power since. Turns out the old folks in my neighborhood starting writing letters, calling, and complaining to anyone that would listen. DTE finally got off their butts and did some maintenance and tree trimming.
@@wills2262 LOL, I recently thanked my neighbor who just installed a generac last year, we got a nasty windstorm last month, only lost power for a few minutes at a time my and my UPS was all I needed to keep my computer and internet up and running. Bought an Ebay Black Friday $500 10KW dual fuel generator a 5 years ago it has kept me up and running in the bigger storms. I run propane if the power is only out for a little bit or switch to Gas if I know it is one of those long haul events it runs the whole house even AC.
that's fine if you are home. He looks about the right age to be near retiring and traveling, while pipes could be freezing if he's not around.
@@rupe53 Antifreeze in a boiler. Shut off, drain your water, put RV antifreeze in toilet and sink/traps, if you are that concerned when going away, that is what I did when I lost power for a week in my house before I got my generator. Running a standby generator for a week straight is not exactly a good option either.
So, I don't know if you remember, but just a couple,of weeks ago we had another big freeze here in Texas, with lots of power lines knocked down by ice-heavy tree limbs, and Austin alone had over 50% of the customers in the city offline as a result. We didn't have loss of power generation this time, but there were a shipload of lines taken out. We had crews from all over the state and out of state coming in to help with the repairs, and it took days to get everyone back online.
So, I would not call this a bad investment. Looks like mega freezes and power outages are going to become the new normal, every year here in Texas,
Even though Gas is nice , I myself prefer ALL ELECTRIC ! As a Retired Federal Firefighter DOD with 30 years of Service and a Licensed Journeyman Electrician with over 55 years in the trade , I have seen too many House Fires due to Gas Leaks and people having to go to ER's because of CO Poisoning from Gas Leaks in Furnaces and Hot Water Heaters ! Propane or Natural Gas is OK for Outside Back Up Emergency Generator Systems , but not for Whole House HVAC systems , Ranges for Cooking and Hot Water Heaters !
Whats your solution for maintaining
A safe gas/propane home ?
Maybe purchase gas/propane
detector and place it nearby to appliances ?
Have a qualified plumber do a two yearly
gas/propane connection routine check .
Its a fact that most homeowners neglect
their smoke detectors and don’t replace
them when it has expired .
Im interested in solutions .
What are yours ?
here you are complaining that it's dangerous, yet I don't recall any mention of when gas might be used for inside the home. Isn't this a little off topic for the video? (retired Deputy Chief and state fire instructor, plus 25 years installing gen sets, plus a gas license on my end) BTW, I would suspect the house is all gas inside, based on the meter size, which makes me wonder why such a big gen set.
@@rupe53 Yeah I was thinking the same thing too, if all his major appliances are gas, that 24 kw might be overkill. But if you got money more power to you.
So, that's what he installed. An outside emergency gas-powered generator. I'm not seeing what the problem is here.
Are you complaining about his existing gas-powered equipment inside the house, which wasn't touched as part of this installation?
@@benjaminvivar7855 ... another thing they didn't mention is that gen set might have had a price advantage. The difference between a 17Kw and a 24Kw isn't all that much, and rather than stock another unit some dealers might give a break. I also know that at one point Generac was offering a 10 year extended warranty on that unit so maybe they did it again? The guy is also an engineer so maybe he's planning to charge his future Tesla?
Why don't you go british style and use the 3rd phase of the disconnect for neutral wire?
local code may not allow it. In some areas it's required to switch the neutral, but then you'd need to run a ground back to the transfer switch. (more cost too)
@@rupe53 i did actually consider that it may not be allowed by code. These guys did run a seperate ground back to the transfer switch
Al, Local code does not allow shutting off the neutral wire in America.
@@Kangenpower7 ... there are exceptions to that neutral switching, (not shutting off) although that may have changed since I retired. Some automatic transfer switches actually had a delayed switching of the neutral to make sure there were no spikes on the legs. I recall going around on that subject with an inspector some 15 years ago. It was in the boondocks of upstate NY.