Yeah. Because finally the dedicated mobile GPUs are powerful enough to play proper games with (with proper resolutions and graphics settings). Also, the cooling in small form factor has improved quite a bit in 10 years. They still don't make enough of these for them to become truly popular. We have the Phantom Canyon NUC with RTX2060 mobile in our living room as a gaming console for the kids (well, I do sometimes play on it too) and it's perfect for us. It's small enough that the wife doesn't mind it, it's powerful enough to play most games the kids want to play at 4K so they don't look like shit on the big TV and it's a PC so the games are much cheaper than on the consoles and you get a lot more choice. Granted, it cost me a few hundred more than a PS5 would've cost and way more than a Switch for example, but still...that few hundred is like 4-5 PS5 games. I don't understand why they aren't more popular. I guess most people just don't mind having huge PCs in their living rooms or just have a dedicated PC room. And are rich. There are downsides, though. Mostly all the stupid frigging launchers. I have Playnite set up, but sometimes EGS or the Xbox app needs to be signed in or something. But the worst offender is Ubisoft Connect. I hate that piece of s**t. It almost always requires admin rights to launch. Thankfully the kids don't really play many Ubisoft games yet.
@@Tommi462 You're misremembering the power of the steam machines. They were essentially packing a 750Ti, which back then would be equivalent for games back then to a 7600M for new games today. So no, that's not the reason. That said, in general, there are more mid-range and high-end gaming options at lower TDPs these days. Back in the day, netbooks were the hot shit for mobile so oftentimes SFF and smaller laptops didn't have options packing more performance like they could have.
Okay so I'm probably well into the minority here, but I have a gaming laptop that is never really used as a laptop. It's always plugged in when in use and hooked up to a TV, because when I've had to travel I use it to game at the hotel, or more typically use it for party games with friends. It only has a 1650 max q in it and that's just fine, for what I want it for. If I had this instead I'd just be eliminating the long term potential issue of battery degradation, as well as having more cooler surface area, and removing the extra bits that I don't use anyway like the monitor, trackpad, and keyboard. I feel like this product was build explicitly for the way I use my gaming laptop, less as a laptop and more as a portable desktop. Like it's not my full wish list for a compact system because I want them to be more modular, with the return of an MXM like standard and a socketed CPU, but I know that's not happening. Honestly I think the best form of the mini PC I've seen in the Alienware Alpha R2, since everything was upgradable except the GPU.
They're also half the price of a similarly speced laptop with the same TDP. Even better is the AtomMan G7 Ti which has a full power RTX4070L (laptop part so not comparable with desktop parts)
thats why I bought this little PC, my laptop always was use before my eyes like a desktop machine and was loud like all gaming laptops, this is different, much better in my opinion. Finally quiet gaming , I mean you will still hear but not that loud like any gaming laptop.
The problem is that the price still doesn't make much sense. I rarely use my gaming laptop as a laptop. But for $1,200 I get very similar graphics performance and also a laptop if I ever need/want it. The one major advantage this mini PC has over similarly priced laptops is the CPU; some people will care about having 16 cores rather than the more common 8, but 99% of people never will.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 the price doesn't make sense for someone using their laptop as a laptop, sure. As someone who uses a laptop as a portable desktop, even if it were the same price as a similarly spec-ed laptop it relieves some longevity concerns that are inherent to laptops as well as providing additional I/O. It's what I would get if I didn't already have the older laptop. I don't really see a need to upgrade though since even a 1650 and a 9400h are plenty for gatherings.
9:10 Imagine you are the person who designed this, watching this thinking “no, no Jake, that doesn’t come off, no, STOP”. It reminds me of that square hole video.
I hope they are and release one with USB4, Oculink and software for Windows 11 to muck with the RGB crap because at $1000 thats pathetic it doesn't have that. I also think the wifi should be an intel AX series.
You're misunderstanding "Early Bird Pricing". What they mean is this is the price you pay now if you cannot wait until they eventually lower the price.
Honestly? This looks like a decent option for someone doing "mobile living" in a van, RV, trailer, camper, etc. If they want a small, compact, power & space efficient package, that seems fairly well set up to survive vibration better than a normal PC.
@@CoconutMigrating not necessarily. If you already have a screen in the van, you could hook that thing up, wall mount it and have a super sleek package. I think it really is a nice option!
It’s worth noting that Intel WiFi 7 cards only work with Intel CPUs for the time being as they are all CNVio cards right now. You cannot have an AMD system with it so the options are between Intel WiFi 6E or Mediatek WiFi 7
@jonny2085 100 bucks plug gpu so 400-450 bucks with a 7600xt, and a base mini pc with this SoC is anything but cheap in the first place, lol So og comme t is right, you're not saving money, maybe only advantage is swapping GPUs, but I'm yet to meet someone that buys a mini pc to upgrade it. At that point just do an itx build
We have a few Minisforum mini computers and a few Beelink mini computers at my work. I had my boss get them because we could tuck them behind the monitors. (Well TVs. We use them to display videos at a small Art Gallery/Event venue.) And the Beelink machines always work better. The Minisforums crash and have memory issues way more frequently.
I've been looking at the ROG Ally as a mini PC replacement due to their price competitiveness. In the UK, the Z1 Extreme has been on sale for £320 ($360-ish). Even if I never used the handheld part, that's cheaper than most mini-PCs. And mini PCs don't go on big sales cuz the demand is so low and it's a niche market. Edit: that £320 one was refurbished (Grade B), but the cosmetic defects don't matter when comparing to a mini PC.
I'm on my way to having my Z1E as my main computer, already have a great monitor, still waiting for amazon to ship my xg mobile 4090 and in the near future I'm upgrading to some 2tb ssd (probably WD SN770M)
0:57 "it's because it has a dedicated graphics card inside of it." I mean, it basically looks like a graphics card with a PC attached, so, I'm not shocked 😅
4:57 intel wifi 7 cards don't work on amd systems :( MediaTek and qualcomm are the only amd compatible wifi 7 cards currently available. To be more specific, intel wifi 7 cards use some signal processing on the cpu, signal processing that amd cpus don't have.
@@kenryoshi that is true only for intel wifi 6 and older. With intel wifi 7, even the normal m.2 cards do not work on amd. As I said before, the wifi 7 cards use processing within the cpu that doesn't exist on amd cards. Take a look at the framework forums to see people discussing it and finding the qualcomm and MediaTek cards are the only supported cards. A simple google search brings up loads of forums and news sites saying the exact same thing.
@@kenryoshi (apologies if I've said this twice, seems my reply didn't go through). That's actually no longer true for intel wifi 7 cards. Yes intel wifi 6 cards had m.2 and CNVIO versions, the latter not supporting amd. As of wifi 7 cards, the m.2 versions use dedicated cpu hardware processing to function. The framework forums has a giant discussion on this topic. Plus a simple google search shows loads of forums and articles saying amd is not supported on any intel wifi 7 cards. Specifically, the intel BE200 does not work at all on amd systems
I love mini PCs for no reason other than they're packing sometimes incredible power into tiny boxes. Or simply having tiny boxes for relatively reasonable prices for those of us that just need a simple computer for simple things.
They fixed the power jack connector. My Minisforum power cord keeps getting yanked out with the slightest nudge. This one looks like it is better engineered not to pull out accidentally.
It would appear intel’s WiFi 7 is built to work only on Intel CPUs currently. With their proprietary signal processing. There is also a similarity priced Intel/Nvidia version of this with a 4070 but who wants the intel ticking 13th gen?
The problems with the Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs are only affecting the desktop 'K' SKUs. It is safe to buy Intel mobile chips (and most of their desktop chips) without concern for degradation. But it's still entirely reasonable to determine the AMD CPU is better for your use.
The smallest SFF PC with discrete GPU is going to be at least x3-4 the volume and quite similarly priced. Flex PSUs are expensive and loud, SFF cases being low volume production are also quite expensive.
4:56 This is because Intel's WiFi 7 cards are unsupported on AMD platforms. It's unconfirmed whether this was an intentional block by Intel, or just an incompatibility in AMD's firmware, but only Wi-Fi 6E and older Intel cards work on AMD for now.
Don't hold your breath hoping Minisforum will release any way to configure the LED panels. 9 months on and still waiting for them to make it happen on my UM780XTX - to the point I actually switched it off within a week.
Last December I felt it's time for an upgrade, but when I realised the VGA prices I rather got rid off the 'big box' and bought a Mf HN2673 with Arc A370 (which quietly discontinued by Mf for some reason) and 2 consoles (XSX and PS5), but so far I'm happy with it. More or less it's equal to an RX5600XT, but I rarely play newer games on PC anymore and this minidude's power consumption is a quarter than my previous pc had.
Oh wow, what a nice little machine with modern components. - Wifi 7 - ddr 5 ram - M.2 in pcie 5! (2x faster than the pcie 4) - CPU is nice - GPU isn’t that much powerful but perfect for doing the job when going somewhere else. - Nice to have a m.2 on pcie 4 left to connect a egpu with oculink later if needed!
I bet its well stressful doing these videos with 0 prep, you can tell you walked into a room, got told the topic of the video and just had to read from a prompt. We all wing stuff but its stressful sometimes lol.
Believe or not, my friends still hold LAN party to this day. Pubg, CS, Dota, Lol you name it all better in group. Having this beast small pc would be my dream
Looking at these as an alternative to the equivalent laptops - which are about £4k! So for devs who occasionally travel, need the cores & memory for multiple large VMs, or memory intensive workloads .. they're ideal. They can be chucked in a bag alongside a cheap base laptop (saving maybe £2k combined vs same spec laptop) for mail/office work, and just need keyboard/monitor/mouse at destination office.
I mean, if you don't have a gaming console, or rigged out gaming PC. Would something like this be a reasonable alternative? Hook it up to your living room TV and treat is as a "SteamBox5" for any PC games?
That would be a reasonable use case if you really need the small form factor, but honestly, for that use case I would consider a regular tower PC tucked somewhere away and using a raspberry pi connected to your network to play through steamplay (basically you can use a beafy PC to do the heavy work and send the video to another less beafy PC so you can play anywhere within your home)
You can build a Mini-ITX PC w/ an APU for a lot less money. This will be more performant as it’s not limited to laptop power draws. Mini-PCs are laptops w/ out a screen and horrible cooling solutions. If you build a Mini-ITX system you have an upgrade and repair path.
Gaming laptops and mini-PCs are strong enough to max out resolution and refresh rate while still having the mobility of an actual laptop. My Asus Tuf A16 with a 7700S hits all my games at 4k native reach 120fps depending on the game (not counting FPS locked games). If a mini-PC can hit that, then they've done their job like a regular desktop PC. The gaps are closing
Honestly, looks like a pretty sweet setup for someone looking for an easy and fairly portable solution. Just connect a monitor, keyboard, and mouse and you're off to the races. Been building PCs for ~20 years, and these smaller form factor PCs are really interesting. Want to use one as an emulation PC in my living room.
The specifics given about the mini-computer’s performance and hardware really helped me get a good grasp on what it's capable of. Still, the price point seems a bit steep for a mini PC.
It's definitely a bit chonky for a mini-PC but when I think of mini-PCs the first thing that comes to mind are how stowable they are. Something like this could easily be tucked in a small space or with a little ingenuity, mounted behind a monitor.
I feel like one of these would be an awesome living room pc. Compact enough to fit nicely on your TV stand, powerful enoigh to play games at a decent resolution on a modern large high resolution TV.
What about the Neptune series? HX99/100G are nice for "relax gaming" having a dedicated GPU (6650M if im not wrong) Less than 600 dolars 9 6900HX+6600M. Barebone (579€ here in Europe)
I'm really interested in this lower power small gaming pc market. I'm a little annoyed at turning my office into a sauna and I really don't play the latest AAA games a lot of the time. What I'm really interested in is Beelink's GTI12/14 mini pc with their new external dock. It has a full PCiEx8 slot on the mini PC and the dock has a built in 600w PSU for a GPU. ShortCircuit should definitely try and get one of those and take a look!
You do know that that set up will always churn out the same heat right? Wattage is wattage no matter how small PC is. Not to mention, there are plenty of non laptop cpus that can run at much lower wattage and still provide better performance than soldered solutions.
I travel countries alot and its nice to have something small yet powerful id just bring a travel monitor and the rest of the set-up so its nice because a laptop wont give u the same performance for the price but a PC isnt that easily suitcase fitting
It's crazy how much performance you can get in an extremely small form factor. The 790 pro is an absolute productivity machine for under 700 bucks! If you need something for photo/video editing and don't want an apple, get the 790 pro. That thing just rips!
I don't understand why these mini manufacturers don't all put in oculink ports - seems like the loss of 4 pcie lanes isn't a big deal with the number of lanes that should be used by the internal peripherals.
Yo! Linus Crew! I believe you missed the point of this device (and the fact that it's all AMD.) With the massive expansion of handheld SteamDeck clones, there's growing market for SteamOS driven PC's... especially Console-like form-factors. The fact that this device is all AMD means that it can totally rock Steam OS via Chimera OS.
You can run "Steam OS" on anything, it's just that historically AMD is much easier to work with on Linux. This could be all Intel and all that stands between you and Linux working well on this are probably Arc GPU drivers for Linux (which some OG probably wrote themself already).
An all-in-one box to throw on the TV to access your steam library sounds pretty good although it's definitely going to be niche product cuz a lot of people that want that would be able to build their own.
Oh wow, what a nice little machine with modern components. - Wifi 7 - ddr 5 ram - M.2 in pcie 5! (2x faster than the pcie 4) - CPU is nice - GPU isn’t that much powerful but perfect for doing the job when going somewhere else. - Nice to have a m.2 on pcie 4 left to connect a egpu twitch oculink.
You may want to try out the ASRock DeskMeet X300/X600 if you want compact performance at a better price. It comes with a 168x236x222mm case + an AM4/AM5 ITX board + power-supply at $180->$240, supports CPUs at up to 65W and 2 slot GPUs with up to 8 PIN Power and 20cm length. For example, a R7 5700X + 32GB DDR4-3200 Cl16 G.Skill, 1TB Kingston NV2 NVME and RTX 3060 12GB Asus Dual V2 OC cost about $555 USD. Add an X300, and you got yourself a way more powerful PC at only around $750 not much bigger than this G7. You also could do the same with an R7 8700G, 64GB DDR5 total while assigning 8GB+ for the integrated GPU, but use no dedicated GPU ( for now ) with still decent 1080p gaming GPU performance at about $50 less. The power supply isn't the best though ... .
Well guys, you are a bit late. Minisforum already announced their next similar gig. And this product is on the market for months now. There are at least 20 videos about it.
I've always loved the idea of these beefy mini PCs but truthfully my laptop with a 3060 is all I need for gaming. I'm looking at updating to a newer one as a living room computer for emulating classic games with my fiancee though, and Minisforum is always a good option for normal mini PCs with integrated graphics.
My biggest issue with minisforum is getting support is like pulling teeth. We emailed back and forth 5-7 times for a faulty power brick or cable (the brick would just not work until you unpluged the short wall cable to the actual brick) Then when i sent video they went radio silent.
I will never stop watching Jake’s reviews of mini PCs because theyre just too perfectly targeted at me. Jake’s humor, The product segment (I just think theyre neat) And the production on SC is just the perfect combo
Great video, wished they would go into the noise of that thing becaus i am planning to replace my tower pc with something smaller but powerfull but it should be quiter then the tower pc
If miniforum would build a middle piece for 6 sata 2,5 SSD's then it would be an awesome mediaserver when youput a M.2 to SATA adapter inside and some SATA power.
Why the logo in the background on the wall not the same as the 2d logo for the yt channel?? The background on the walls bottom square doesn't have a line going to the middle, it's a flat face. Not a biggie, just a 4am brain notice thing. Night
I think they are just some standard light panels they bought because they look like the logo. I'm sure if they went as far as getting a custom made light then they would have got it right
I want a mini-PC that doubles as a sound bar. That way i can take it anywhere, plug it into any hotel tv and do my thing, whether that's work or gaming. I don't need the onboard tiny screen, trash keyboard, garbage speakers/camera/mic, or worthless trackpad that come with laptops. I do want a good screen which i can get from basically every modern TV. A good keyboard which there are plenty of excellent bluetooth ones so I could type from a good viewing distance. A real mouse or trackball which also exist. I could also use a bluetooth speaker but, I feel like that would be an easy component to just slap onto the miniature tower. If it were designed to lay flat, with speaker arrays on either side and a small wired mic you can drag to wherever you plan to sit so it can adjust settings for an immersive experience, they could make something great.
I think this would be great for someone travelling around a lot working staying in hotels.. means you don't have to work on huge gaming laptop and you will get better performance for the price too.
@@aleks138 Hotels have TVs in them.. and you can get small wireless keyboards and mice.. for someone who travels a lot this will be fine.. I’d rather be able to have a small laptop for working.
Intel's 802.11be chips (BE200 and similar) don't like being plugged into an AMD board for whatever reason. Tried it with my Zephyrus G14 and AMD Framework 13, neither liked it. The naming convention that Intel used to have for the pre-802.11be chips (i.e. AX200 vs. AX201, where the "1" means it only works with an Intel CPU+chipset) no longer applies. So if you swapped out the Mediatek WiFi with Intel, you'd be stuck with 802.11ax. The only non-Mediatek 802.11be option I've found that my AMD boxes were happy with was a Qualcomm NCM865, but I don't currently recommend it due to lack of decent Linux drivers for it (yet). Works great on Windows though.
One use I know would work well at least for me is to have it hooked up to my TV in the living room. Or in my suv that has screens already that can this be used for. I can see a use for it personally. We take several long trips I'm sure I can get a VM to work with some local games kids can play
Intel Wifi 7 m.2 model BE200 is incompatible with AMD platforms. You cannot swap wifi m.2 for an Intel on an AMD platform unless you want a downgrade from wifi 7. If you must switch from MediaTek, I would suggest switching to a Qualcomm QNCM865, though those are hard to find. But do your own research to make sure such a model is right for you.
I'm wondering if one installed a linux distro on it, would it run lower wattage when idle? On top of that, I could see someone run a compact homelab from this thing or a van-life person who needs performance with constraints.
Yeah, I can understand having just the two panels if that's all they can build into the price/what was initially required for a particular customer. But having some way of managing it would be easy enough
I really like small form factors. The idea of building an itx PC with a flagship GPU makes me giddy. It's very hard in ITX, compared to mini ATX. I have my first build still, and it's in a massic case that's so fucking massive and I regret it. Now I want my next build to be in something like a fractal design terra. I wonder if they'll be able to make mini pcs that are better than the highest end laptops. I think that it'd be very cool.
I feel like every mini pc and "Gaming" laptop should now come with a external gpu connector. it would make this a much better sell i think if i could just change out the gpu.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Steamboxes finally getting popular 10 years later.
Yeah. Because finally the dedicated mobile GPUs are powerful enough to play proper games with (with proper resolutions and graphics settings). Also, the cooling in small form factor has improved quite a bit in 10 years. They still don't make enough of these for them to become truly popular.
We have the Phantom Canyon NUC with RTX2060 mobile in our living room as a gaming console for the kids (well, I do sometimes play on it too) and it's perfect for us. It's small enough that the wife doesn't mind it, it's powerful enough to play most games the kids want to play at 4K so they don't look like shit on the big TV and it's a PC so the games are much cheaper than on the consoles and you get a lot more choice. Granted, it cost me a few hundred more than a PS5 would've cost and way more than a Switch for example, but still...that few hundred is like 4-5 PS5 games. I don't understand why they aren't more popular. I guess most people just don't mind having huge PCs in their living rooms or just have a dedicated PC room. And are rich.
There are downsides, though. Mostly all the stupid frigging launchers. I have Playnite set up, but sometimes EGS or the Xbox app needs to be signed in or something. But the worst offender is Ubisoft Connect. I hate that piece of s**t. It almost always requires admin rights to launch. Thankfully the kids don't really play many Ubisoft games yet.
@@Tommi462 You're misremembering the power of the steam machines. They were essentially packing a 750Ti, which back then would be equivalent for games back then to a 7600M for new games today. So no, that's not the reason.
That said, in general, there are more mid-range and high-end gaming options at lower TDPs these days. Back in the day, netbooks were the hot shit for mobile so oftentimes SFF and smaller laptops didn't have options packing more performance like they could have.
Okay so I'm probably well into the minority here, but I have a gaming laptop that is never really used as a laptop. It's always plugged in when in use and hooked up to a TV, because when I've had to travel I use it to game at the hotel, or more typically use it for party games with friends. It only has a 1650 max q in it and that's just fine, for what I want it for. If I had this instead I'd just be eliminating the long term potential issue of battery degradation, as well as having more cooler surface area, and removing the extra bits that I don't use anyway like the monitor, trackpad, and keyboard.
I feel like this product was build explicitly for the way I use my gaming laptop, less as a laptop and more as a portable desktop. Like it's not my full wish list for a compact system because I want them to be more modular, with the return of an MXM like standard and a socketed CPU, but I know that's not happening. Honestly I think the best form of the mini PC I've seen in the Alienware Alpha R2, since everything was upgradable except the GPU.
That's exactly the reason why i love handheld pc concept + eGpu. Light, power efficient setup when you travel, and powerful GPU in home
They're also half the price of a similarly speced laptop with the same TDP. Even better is the AtomMan G7 Ti which has a full power RTX4070L (laptop part so not comparable with desktop parts)
thats why I bought this little PC, my laptop always was use before my eyes like a desktop machine and was loud like all gaming laptops, this is different, much better in my opinion. Finally quiet gaming , I mean you will still hear but not that loud like any gaming laptop.
The problem is that the price still doesn't make much sense. I rarely use my gaming laptop as a laptop. But for $1,200 I get very similar graphics performance and also a laptop if I ever need/want it. The one major advantage this mini PC has over similarly priced laptops is the CPU; some people will care about having 16 cores rather than the more common 8, but 99% of people never will.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 the price doesn't make sense for someone using their laptop as a laptop, sure. As someone who uses a laptop as a portable desktop, even if it were the same price as a similarly spec-ed laptop it relieves some longevity concerns that are inherent to laptops as well as providing additional I/O.
It's what I would get if I didn't already have the older laptop. I don't really see a need to upgrade though since even a 1650 and a 9400h are plenty for gatherings.
9:10 Imagine you are the person who designed this, watching this thinking “no, no Jake, that doesn’t come off, no, STOP”. It reminds me of that square hole video.
I hope they are and release one with USB4, Oculink and software for Windows 11 to muck with the RGB crap because at $1000 thats pathetic it doesn't have that. I also think the wifi should be an intel AX series.
You're misunderstanding "Early Bird Pricing". What they mean is this is the price you pay now if you cannot wait until they eventually lower the price.
Got a v3, can confirm. Still pissed about that.
@Nixola97 Damn that sucks to be burned like that.
At least the v3 is still a one of a kind, versatile machine.
@@tim3172 I'm not entirely upset; I'm just mildly pissed at myself for not waiting a bit
That is the opposite of how 'early bird pricing' has ever been used
@@FinneasJedidiah Indeed, but that seems to be how Minisforum operates.
Honestly? This looks like a decent option for someone doing "mobile living" in a van, RV, trailer, camper, etc.
If they want a small, compact, power & space efficient package, that seems fairly well set up to survive vibration better than a normal PC.
Good call
Laptop is still probably better so you don’t need a separate monitor/keyboard/mouse in that scenario
@@CoconutMigrating not necessarily. If you already have a screen in the van, you could hook that thing up, wall mount it and have a super sleek package. I think it really is a nice option!
@@CoconutMigrating No way. Using a tiny-ass laptop screen is a no go, even for mobile. Give me at least a 27" monitor.
Hook the laptop to the screen@@UndyingShadow83
It’s worth noting that Intel WiFi 7 cards only work with Intel CPUs for the time being as they are all CNVio cards right now. You cannot have an AMD system with it so the options are between Intel WiFi 6E or Mediatek WiFi 7
Iirc Qualcomm also have m.2 PCIE Wifi 7 card recently
Intel over here blowing their legs off while trying to win 5 marathons. AMD machines work best with Intel Wifi and phy eth.
1:36 I love this x GBit USB thing, so much clearer than the 3.x Gen something BS. Thanks Jake!
most egpu enclosures are still expensive so buying a gpu with an egpu enclosure isnt going to save you much money at all compared to this thing.
@UnknownSimmer-mi6 plus a gpu?
They have a mini PC with oculink and a $100 oculink dock
They're not popular anymore. Sadly.
@@jonny2085 where is the dedicated gpu jonny?
@jonny2085 100 bucks plug gpu so 400-450 bucks with a 7600xt, and a base mini pc with this SoC is anything but cheap in the first place, lol
So og comme t is right, you're not saving money, maybe only advantage is swapping GPUs, but I'm yet to meet someone that buys a mini pc to upgrade it. At that point just do an itx build
I picked up a Beelink mini PC after you guys started covering Minisforum pcs a few years back. It's served well.
We have a few Minisforum mini computers and a few Beelink mini computers at my work. I had my boss get them because we could tuck them behind the monitors. (Well TVs. We use them to display videos at a small Art Gallery/Event venue.) And the Beelink machines always work better. The Minisforums crash and have memory issues way more frequently.
I've been looking at the ROG Ally as a mini PC replacement due to their price competitiveness. In the UK, the Z1 Extreme has been on sale for £320 ($360-ish). Even if I never used the handheld part, that's cheaper than most mini-PCs.
And mini PCs don't go on big sales cuz the demand is so low and it's a niche market.
Edit: that £320 one was refurbished (Grade B), but the cosmetic defects don't matter when comparing to a mini PC.
I love my ROG Ally. I can emulate anything and most of my steam library is backdated games.
I use my Ally as my desktop PC. It does everything I need.
I'm on my way to having my Z1E as my main computer, already have a great monitor, still waiting for amazon to ship my xg mobile 4090 and in the near future I'm upgrading to some 2tb ssd (probably WD SN770M)
0:57 "it's because it has a dedicated graphics card inside of it."
I mean, it basically looks like a graphics card with a PC attached, so, I'm not shocked 😅
4:57 intel wifi 7 cards don't work on amd systems :( MediaTek and qualcomm are the only amd compatible wifi 7 cards currently available. To be more specific, intel wifi 7 cards use some signal processing on the cpu, signal processing that amd cpus don't have.
Incorrect, the Intel BE200 is PCIe WiFi 7 module that works fine on AMD.
Intel's CNVIO/CNVIO2 modules are the ones that do not work on AMD systems.
@@kenryoshi that is true only for intel wifi 6 and older.
With intel wifi 7, even the normal m.2 cards do not work on amd. As I said before, the wifi 7 cards use processing within the cpu that doesn't exist on amd cards.
Take a look at the framework forums to see people discussing it and finding the qualcomm and MediaTek cards are the only supported cards.
A simple google search brings up loads of forums and news sites saying the exact same thing.
@@kenryoshi (apologies if I've said this twice, seems my reply didn't go through). That's actually no longer true for intel wifi 7 cards. Yes intel wifi 6 cards had m.2 and CNVIO versions, the latter not supporting amd.
As of wifi 7 cards, the m.2 versions use dedicated cpu hardware processing to function. The framework forums has a giant discussion on this topic. Plus a simple google search shows loads of forums and articles saying amd is not supported on any intel wifi 7 cards. Specifically, the intel BE200 does not work at all on amd systems
@@kenryoshi Did they resolve it? Because the web is full of BE200 not working on AMD...
@@tim3172 wow its like drm for wifi hehe only on intel hahah
I love mini PCs for no reason other than they're packing sometimes incredible power into tiny boxes. Or simply having tiny boxes for relatively reasonable prices for those of us that just need a simple computer for simple things.
They fixed the power jack connector. My Minisforum power cord keeps getting yanked out with the slightest nudge. This one looks like it is better engineered not to pull out accidentally.
It would appear intel’s WiFi 7 is built to work only on Intel CPUs currently. With their proprietary signal processing.
There is also a similarity priced Intel/Nvidia version of this with a 4070 but who wants the intel ticking 13th gen?
I dont want my WiFi offset to a cpu...
Already tested with 4070 and this g7 pt and choose AMD, less performance but more video output quiet, much quiet than intel ver.
Yup it's very annoying. Mediatek is the only option sadly.
The problems with the Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs are only affecting the desktop 'K' SKUs. It is safe to buy Intel mobile chips (and most of their desktop chips) without concern for degradation. But it's still entirely reasonable to determine the AMD CPU is better for your use.
@@psychoacer I swapped the mediatek in my G7 PT for an Intel AX210 (WiFi 6E) .... sure its not WiFi 7 but still better than mediatek ;)
A vinyl cutter like a Cricut would make easy work of that two panel LED block on the side, makes things at least a million ways more customizable.
I was thinking about lasering a thin layer of paint off some acrylic but yes, very nice to have the slot there
or a 3d print
The smallest SFF PC with discrete GPU is going to be at least x3-4 the volume and quite similarly priced. Flex PSUs are expensive and loud, SFF cases being low volume production are also quite expensive.
4:56 This is because Intel's WiFi 7 cards are unsupported on AMD platforms. It's unconfirmed whether this was an intentional block by Intel, or just an incompatibility in AMD's firmware, but only Wi-Fi 6E and older Intel cards work on AMD for now.
Don't hold your breath hoping Minisforum will release any way to configure the LED panels. 9 months on and still waiting for them to make it happen on my UM780XTX - to the point I actually switched it off within a week.
Living without LED lights must be hard
We now have PC's of the size of a PS2.
What a time to be alive.
It's what I always wanted. I just wish they had user swappable GPUs. Bring back the MXM format dammit.
There has been way smaller PCs than that for a long time.
@@RomainDelmaire nope
Mac mini @@gamist8166
@@gamist8166 yes
Last December I felt it's time for an upgrade, but when I realised the VGA prices I rather got rid off the 'big box' and bought a Mf HN2673 with Arc A370 (which quietly discontinued by Mf for some reason) and 2 consoles (XSX and PS5), but so far I'm happy with it. More or less it's equal to an RX5600XT, but I rarely play newer games on PC anymore and this minidude's power consumption is a quarter than my previous pc had.
Oh wow, what a nice little machine with modern components.
- Wifi 7
- ddr 5 ram
- M.2 in pcie 5! (2x faster than the pcie 4)
- CPU is nice
- GPU isn’t that much powerful but perfect for doing the job when going somewhere else.
- Nice to have a m.2 on pcie 4 left to connect a egpu with oculink later if needed!
I bet its well stressful doing these videos with 0 prep, you can tell you walked into a room, got told the topic of the video and just had to read from a prompt. We all wing stuff but its stressful sometimes lol.
Jake's segues are getting Linus level
He did the Linus thing 11:27
Depends a lot on your use case. If you really want a small PC to stick next to you console, this looks like a great option.
Imagine making a giant screen out of thousands of these PCs solely using their RGB squares to make pixels lol
Looking for something to replace aging gaming laptop that is used as a desktop computer. But the other mini pc with egpu seems more upgradeable.
RTFM. Is it Mic? Or is it a Reset? It is on the first page of the manual :).
I would get this just for the 16 core CPU. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
Believe or not, my friends still hold LAN party to this day. Pubg, CS, Dota, Lol you name it all better in group. Having this beast small pc would be my dream
Looking at these as an alternative to the equivalent laptops - which are about £4k! So for devs who occasionally travel, need the cores & memory for multiple large VMs, or memory intensive workloads .. they're ideal. They can be chucked in a bag alongside a cheap base laptop (saving maybe £2k combined vs same spec laptop) for mail/office work, and just need keyboard/monitor/mouse at destination office.
I mean, if you don't have a gaming console, or rigged out gaming PC. Would something like this be a reasonable alternative?
Hook it up to your living room TV and treat is as a "SteamBox5" for any PC games?
btw, I don't necessarily mean this exact model. Something of a similar ilk and performs well, decent I/O etc.
That would be a reasonable use case if you really need the small form factor, but honestly, for that use case I would consider a regular tower PC tucked somewhere away and using a raspberry pi connected to your network to play through steamplay (basically you can use a beafy PC to do the heavy work and send the video to another less beafy PC so you can play anywhere within your home)
You can build a Mini-ITX PC w/ an APU for a lot less money. This will be more performant as it’s not limited to laptop power draws. Mini-PCs are laptops w/ out a screen and horrible cooling solutions. If you build a Mini-ITX system you have an upgrade and repair path.
build a mini pc or do something "cool" and have an open frame on the wall behind the TV
Gaming laptops and mini-PCs are strong enough to max out resolution and refresh rate while still having the mobility of an actual laptop. My Asus Tuf A16 with a 7700S hits all my games at 4k native reach 120fps depending on the game (not counting FPS locked games). If a mini-PC can hit that, then they've done their job like a regular desktop PC. The gaps are closing
Honestly, looks like a pretty sweet setup for someone looking for an easy and fairly portable solution. Just connect a monitor, keyboard, and mouse and you're off to the races.
Been building PCs for ~20 years, and these smaller form factor PCs are really interesting. Want to use one as an emulation PC in my living room.
The specifics given about the mini-computer’s performance and hardware really helped me get a good grasp on what it's capable of. Still, the price point seems a bit steep for a mini PC.
I want this as a gaming console to have on the TV table. Makes total sense to me.
As far as I know, there is still no Intel WiFi 7 that works with AMD processors. You have to go with Mediatek or Qualcomm WiFi 7.
That was genuinely the best segue that LTT has done in a while and the first one that cought me off guard ^^
I just found out I've been living under a rock 😭
It's definitely a bit chonky for a mini-PC but when I think of mini-PCs the first thing that comes to mind are how stowable they are. Something like this could easily be tucked in a small space or with a little ingenuity, mounted behind a monitor.
I feel like one of these would be an awesome living room pc. Compact enough to fit nicely on your TV stand, powerful enoigh to play games at a decent resolution on a modern large high resolution TV.
I'd like to see more mini pc's like this out there.
This seems a bit pricey, even in barebones mode,
but it's moving in the right direction.
Missed the brix and zotac days. The Intel nuc with itx GPU support was ideal. But then a Velka 3 would do too.
What about the Neptune series? HX99/100G are nice for "relax gaming" having a dedicated GPU (6650M if im not wrong)
Less than 600 dolars 9 6900HX+6600M. Barebone (579€ here in Europe)
I would love to see that mini pc modded with an Oculink in the m.2 and see how it perform.
That’s screaming gaming console replacement to me. It’s gonna look perfectly in a living room next to a big TV.
I'm really interested in this lower power small gaming pc market. I'm a little annoyed at turning my office into a sauna and I really don't play the latest AAA games a lot of the time. What I'm really interested in is Beelink's GTI12/14 mini pc with their new external dock. It has a full PCiEx8 slot on the mini PC and the dock has a built in 600w PSU for a GPU. ShortCircuit should definitely try and get one of those and take a look!
You do know that that set up will always churn out the same heat right?
Wattage is wattage no matter how small PC is. Not to mention, there are plenty of non laptop cpus that can run at much lower wattage and still provide better performance than soldered solutions.
I travel countries alot and its nice to have something small yet powerful id just bring a travel monitor and the rest of the set-up so its nice because a laptop wont give u the same performance for the price but a PC isnt that easily suitcase fitting
It's crazy how much performance you can get in an extremely small form factor. The 790 pro is an absolute productivity machine for under 700 bucks! If you need something for photo/video editing and don't want an apple, get the 790 pro. That thing just rips!
i want one just to use as a proxmox home lab server, I think it would be great to have the power needed without the power bill too high
It's happened. The son has now fully reached dad's level of segue-speak.... XD
Kind of sad that it doesn't have a USB 4 connection for EGPU's. I guess you could try using one of those M.2 slots.
I don't understand why these mini manufacturers don't all put in oculink ports - seems like the loss of 4 pcie lanes isn't a big deal with the number of lanes that should be used by the internal peripherals.
Yo! Linus Crew! I believe you missed the point of this device (and the fact that it's all AMD.) With the massive expansion of handheld SteamDeck clones, there's growing market for SteamOS driven PC's... especially Console-like form-factors. The fact that this device is all AMD means that it can totally rock Steam OS via Chimera OS.
You can run "Steam OS" on anything, it's just that historically AMD is much easier to work with on Linux. This could be all Intel and all that stands between you and Linux working well on this are probably Arc GPU drivers for Linux (which some OG probably wrote themself already).
Couldn't you say that about literally any AMD powered (apu or dedicated gpu) system?
An all-in-one box to throw on the TV to access your steam library sounds pretty good although it's definitely going to be niche product cuz a lot of people that want that would be able to build their own.
Oh wow, what a nice little machine with modern components.
- Wifi 7
- ddr 5 ram
- M.2 in pcie 5! (2x faster than the pcie 4)
- CPU is nice
- GPU isn’t that much powerful but perfect for doing the job when going somewhere else.
- Nice to have a m.2 on pcie 4 left to connect a egpu twitch oculink.
You may want to try out the ASRock DeskMeet X300/X600 if you want compact performance at a better price.
It comes with a 168x236x222mm case + an AM4/AM5 ITX board + power-supply at $180->$240, supports CPUs at up to 65W and 2 slot GPUs with up to 8 PIN Power and 20cm length.
For example, a R7 5700X + 32GB DDR4-3200 Cl16 G.Skill, 1TB Kingston NV2 NVME and RTX 3060 12GB Asus Dual V2 OC cost about $555 USD. Add an X300, and you got yourself a way more powerful PC at only around $750 not much bigger than this G7. You also could do the same with an R7 8700G, 64GB DDR5 total while assigning 8GB+ for the integrated GPU, but use no dedicated GPU ( for now ) with still decent 1080p gaming GPU performance at about $50 less.
The power supply isn't the best though ... .
Where was this thing 1.5 months ago😭.
Well guys, you are a bit late. Minisforum already announced their next similar gig. And this product is on the market for months now. There are at least 20 videos about it.
Anything over a day old: nope, no one should make videos, old news.
Nobody cares
@@Ravenousjoe ok bzoomer
@@navarroigava??
I've always loved the idea of these beefy mini PCs but truthfully my laptop with a 3060 is all I need for gaming. I'm looking at updating to a newer one as a living room computer for emulating classic games with my fiancee though, and Minisforum is always a good option for normal mini PCs with integrated graphics.
Some day we’ll start seeing these things with integrated power supplies, Mac Mini-style
love to see a review of this thing running Bazzite!
basically a gaming laptop in desktop form
10:18 does that left thermal compound still have the sticker/cover on it?
Whats that white slanted mouse Jake was using?
ETAPrime went over the pros and cons of this computer sometime ago.
My biggest issue with minisforum is getting support is like pulling teeth. We emailed back and forth 5-7 times for a faulty power brick or cable (the brick would just not work until you unpluged the short wall cable to the actual brick) Then when i sent video they went radio silent.
Did they not take the plastic off of the adhesive pad inside the system?
This looks like it can be nicely placed on a shelf or in a lowboard under your TV. But then I don't get why all the USB ports are on the back.
I will never stop watching Jake’s reviews of mini PCs because theyre just too perfectly targeted at me.
Jake’s humor,
The product segment (I just think theyre neat)
And the production on SC is just the perfect combo
Interesting to see a mini DESKTOP using LAPTOP hardware.
Great video, wished they would go into the noise of that thing becaus i am planning to replace my tower pc with something smaller but powerfull but it should be quiter then the tower pc
Aww awesome! (Also wtf so many bots) And that power supply is CHONKY
0:07 The Montsunami
Any chance you can rotate the bottom left cube in the LED array behind you to match your logo? It's been driving me crazy ever since I noticed it.
When you're so early you can see the bots's comments 😭😭😭
I love your videos. How do you come up with ideas for them? (pretend my profile picture is a huge bossom and my profile has links to a crypto scam)
@@orlagh277 xD good one
I know it’s no big deal, but the word you’re looking for is:
bots’
That’s how you pluralize that :)
If miniforum would build a middle piece for 6 sata 2,5 SSD's then it would be an awesome mediaserver when youput a M.2 to SATA adapter inside and some SATA power.
MS-01 or MS-01a
I mean, there is still the neptune series which imo is the closer comparison
Intel Wifi Cards have stability issues on a Ryzen system, Mediatek SOC are more stable
Why the logo in the background on the wall not the same as the 2d logo for the yt channel??
The background on the walls bottom square doesn't have a line going to the middle, it's a flat face.
Not a biggie, just a 4am brain notice thing. Night
I think they are just some standard light panels they bought because they look like the logo. I'm sure if they went as far as getting a custom made light then they would have got it right
You should really check out the 2024 General Mini PC Guide spreadsheet
No mention of the amount GPU VRAM? That should be in every review of a PC with a GPU.
Could have like, reviewed more games that'd be neat. Also cant hear how "Loud" it is.
I would love to see a side by side between that and my 11th gen nuc extreme. It blows the cpu out of the water.
Great for someone that has limited space. I am good with my atx case "TANK PC". I like the power that my PC has.
I want a mini-PC that doubles as a sound bar. That way i can take it anywhere, plug it into any hotel tv and do my thing, whether that's work or gaming.
I don't need the onboard tiny screen, trash keyboard, garbage speakers/camera/mic, or worthless trackpad that come with laptops.
I do want a good screen which i can get from basically every modern TV.
A good keyboard which there are plenty of excellent bluetooth ones so I could type from a good viewing distance.
A real mouse or trackball which also exist.
I could also use a bluetooth speaker but, I feel like that would be an easy component to just slap onto the miniature tower.
If it were designed to lay flat, with speaker arrays on either side and a small wired mic you can drag to wherever you plan to sit so it can adjust settings for an immersive experience, they could make something great.
Then just build a mini itx desktop and buy some bose soundcolor speakers that can combine together for stereo mode
In other words it wouldnt make sense to give up on upgradability and repairability to just have a built in soundbar
A soundbar that can be integrated on a MiniPC probably would be worse than speakers on a TV. If you want that, get some wireless headphomes instead.
I think this would be great for someone travelling around a lot working staying in hotels.. means you don't have to work on huge gaming laptop and you will get better performance for the price too.
instead of a "huge" gaming laptop. you have a mini pc ..... and huge screen to lug around along with all the peripherals
@@aleks138 Hotels have TVs in them.. and you can get small wireless keyboards and mice.. for someone who travels a lot this will be fine.. I’d rather be able to have a small laptop for working.
Intel's 802.11be chips (BE200 and similar) don't like being plugged into an AMD board for whatever reason. Tried it with my Zephyrus G14 and AMD Framework 13, neither liked it. The naming convention that Intel used to have for the pre-802.11be chips (i.e. AX200 vs. AX201, where the "1" means it only works with an Intel CPU+chipset) no longer applies. So if you swapped out the Mediatek WiFi with Intel, you'd be stuck with 802.11ax. The only non-Mediatek 802.11be option I've found that my AMD boxes were happy with was a Qualcomm NCM865, but I don't currently recommend it due to lack of decent Linux drivers for it (yet). Works great on Windows though.
Missed the chance to call it demure
Have you lost weight, Jake? Dayumn, you're looking good brother!
One use I know would work well at least for me is to have it hooked up to my TV in the living room. Or in my suv that has screens already that can this be used for. I can see a use for it personally. We take several long trips I'm sure I can get a VM to work with some local games kids can play
Intel Wifi 7 m.2 model BE200 is incompatible with AMD platforms. You cannot swap wifi m.2 for an Intel on an AMD platform unless you want a downgrade from wifi 7.
If you must switch from MediaTek, I would suggest switching to a Qualcomm QNCM865, though those are hard to find. But do your own research to make sure such a model is right for you.
I'm wondering if one installed a linux distro on it, would it run lower wattage when idle?
On top of that, I could see someone run a compact homelab from this thing or a van-life person who needs performance with constraints.
For a moment I thought you were holding Bible
Looks like the perfect HTPC, that thing rips
Having it be an customizeable LED matrix instead of two (not easily) controlabe rgb panels would have made this so freaking cool
Yeah, I can understand having just the two panels if that's all they can build into the price/what was initially required for a particular customer. But having some way of managing it would be easy enough
I really like small form factors. The idea of building an itx PC with a flagship GPU makes me giddy. It's very hard in ITX, compared to mini ATX. I have my first build still, and it's in a massic case that's so fucking massive and I regret it. Now I want my next build to be in something like a fractal design terra. I wonder if they'll be able to make mini pcs that are better than the highest end laptops. I think that it'd be very cool.
I feel like every mini pc and "Gaming" laptop should now come with a external gpu connector. it would make this a much better sell i think if i could just change out the gpu.
Oh cool it's Madam Web themed.
I like small form factor gaming PCs and wish all of them the best in life.
Is MediaTek actually that big of a problem to change it out now days?
Jake's Borat impression made me think of Gru instead...lmao