THIS is WHY old songs just sound 'BETTER'!
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Tonight we're taking a look at Tears For Fears performing 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' live, and comparing it to the original release!
Original Video - • Tears for Fears - Ever...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
0:48 Performance
1:55 Analysis Start
6:15 Performance Resumption
9:36 Instruments Don't Get 'Corrected'
12:09 The Original Record
17:11 Natural Pitch = Unique Personality
19:20 Obsession with 'Perfection'
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When every “mistake” is removed, the magic is gone.
Imagine taking a van Gogh and "fixing" it with Photoshop filters. Yet we're okay with doing this to music.
Might as well let robots sing.
It's like black & white photography without any grey.
mistake = humanity. That was part of the magic of Jimmy Page's production. He understood that the feel of a performance was more important than perfection.
It's not so much mistake, but removing the "choir" effect where slight differences result in a thicker sound. On synthesisers it is common to slightly detune the oscillators to get a nice fat sound. So why can't vocals have a slight detune?
The Wings of Pegasus channel should be a mandatory watching requirement for the entire music industry today.
Amen to that!
Why? They don't seem to be struggling to make money? One thing with music - Once somethings been done, it's been done. So musicians (well, the good ones) should be looking for something new and different. Lots of listeners don't like new and different. They want old and pretty much the same.
I wholeheartedly agree!!
INDEED!!!
Not really. He's quite clueless really. It's a lot of tripe.
Everybody Wants to Tune the World.
Too sad and true. Though, there are a few exceptions out there.
This parody cover needs to happen
@@cateblighDo the whole Cher autotune, Waring blender treatment.
@@jimshorts6751 haha yes, and it would be a big hit! Because the melody and lyrics are so good, even destroyed it would probably chart haha
well said... erm sung?
I'm a fan of Tears For Fears and so I know this song very well. One thing about it is that when Curt and Roland sing together you can hear them individually because they have such different voices, and that adds depth to the sound. Listening to the pitch corrected version, I can't hear that any more. They sound the same. And it ruins the song.
Yes, I noticed that as well. I was like, where is Roland? Barely noticeable. The whole point of having two people sing in unison is that their voices are slightly different, which gives it a thicker quality. I shudder at the thought of an auto-tuned choir.
@@progmeup And then think of that interview of Brian May by Beato. Brian talks a lot about harmony and chorus effect and "thickness"
Exactly, pitch tuned makes it impossible to naturally match notes.
Good point. It kills their vocal sound. Also, I don't think Orzabal needs it and if Curt is a little off once in a blue moon I don't mind, it adds to the vibe.
I have fond memories of singing along
with The Beatles albums, developing a
keen ear to pick up overdubs and harmonies.
This skill led to opportunities to perform
with bands, where the ability to sing
harmonically without overpowering
the lead singer was essential. Though
not auto-tuned perfect, the harmonies
between Paul, John, and George were
still enjoyable to listen to decades later.
progmeup said it; thicken up the sound when 2 or more folks sing together, even on the same pitch! totally agree.
I love the natural voice of the singer, you can hear the cries in their voices, and hear their feelings and emotions. With pitch correction, you dont hear any of that. Thank you Fil for another awesome analysis! Rock!
I've heard great singers described as 'opening the wound'.
They were & are "supernatural".
Elvis 1977. "Unchained Melody" done like never before. He was overweight, addicted to opiates, heart rhythm issues, no sleep, and just 2 months from death. How that man pulled that rabbit out I'll never know, but it was glorious !
@@jimshorts6751 a lifetime of training 😀
Steve Perry with Journey, 81 Houston concert "Mother, Father."
Wow. Just wow.
Curt's voice is like butter. He sings like everything's a lullaby. I'm sorry to hear the corrections applied.
Curt's voice is like butter... now they have made it margarine.
I'm so depressed. What a travesty. Curt deserves better.
WTF I hate butter
I can't believe it's not butter.
@@dathorndike4908I think he probably wants it that way.
When you listen to the isolated vocal it just sounds like a machine. So sad.
I'm a little torn on which is worse: The fact that tuning removes all trace of humanity, or that the tuning algorithms are still (and probably never will be) entirely perfect at generating realistic voice timbre on-pitch, and so we're stuck with digital manipulations that slice up sound and subtly shift the speed, sometimes in the time domain AND the frequency domain, leaving processing artifacts that don't sound very nice at all.
I'm quite all right with a little bit of imperfection in a live performance. I prefer it that way!
It's not really an imperfection thing. It's humans making music for humans to hear and feel.
That’s the human aspect of it.
Great video man, guys like you and Ric Beato might just save the music industry.
Thanks!
Just thought of this comparison... Natural voice is like a signature while corrected voice is like a typewriter. Sharing my random thought of the night. Keep up the great work!
replace "this comparison" with "an analogy" ... I agree.
Agree. Perfect analogy
MASSIVE difference between the 2 performances, tonally and emotionally. Our ears can hear and the pitch correction shows it so clearly. The original doesn't sound one bit like a robot - you can hear breathiness that is entirely missing from the Xirius version.
What an amazing skill you have: "I had to re-calibrate the software to 430 Hz", but then at 14:50 "he's clearly sharp of the C4 and flat of the A#3" { casually adjusts his brain to 430 Hz and demonstrates a slightly sharp C4 followed by a slightly flat A#3 }. Most of all I love how you carry your own talent so lightly.
Yeah, that one blew my mind. I mean, not that he can mentally adjust for it, but rather that his voice's muscle memory doesn't just override what his brain is demanding from it.
It's 'relative pitch' he was using intuitively.
We’ll put re carrying “talent so lightly.”
Fil: I've learned a great deal from all the discussions of pitch correction/autotune and totally agree that it's an unpleasant, if not outright deceptive practice. I find that I"m not watching your channel as often, though, since that has been the exclusive focus for some time now. I know you get a lot of requests for you to analyze specific releases in this regard. So possibly I'm in the minority, but I'd love to hear you add back some of the analysis/critiques of performances you used to do. Personally, I'd be happy to have you stick to older performances from the pre-autotune days.
I'm always SO impressed by your knowledge, your "ear", your ability to explain, and your enthusiasm for your topics, so I will continue to watch regardless. Thanks, Fil!
Totally agree. When Fil explained a while back the skill of Sinatra’s technique of swooping into and out of notes, it deepened my appreciation of his music. More of that!
I agree also
Couldn’t agree more
I also agree with you. I don't enjoy listening to songs that have used pitch correction and/or autotune. So why would I enjoy having to listen to them being dissected?
It seems like more of these 'reactors' are putting out more and more junk that has nothing to reacting to a singer or song. I've unsubscribed from quite a few of them.
Great video!
I saw Queen live many times back in the day and one of the most memorable and thrilling aspect of Freddie's vocals was when he played around with the melody, never always pitch perfect but just fabulous. I wouldn't want to hear Freddie any other way.
Me either!!
Freddie was often way way off, but that very stretch made you sense his emotions almost running away with the pitch. And that was the whole point of how he sang.
@@aaronwaldersladeKeep in mind in ear monitors wasn’t a thing back then.
It's like Pringles compared to real potato chips.
It's like teleprompter-addicted Joe Biden compared to a President who can talk extemporaneously.
Excellent analogy.
"Shots fired! I repeat, shots fired!" :P
I call that compressed saw dust
It's like Délice de Bourgogne compared to Vie de France.
Spot on Fil (as usual). I 'bonded' emotionally with this song years ago. The original vocal is so crisp, clear and original. It cuts through your day, making an impact, lifting your spirits and creating the moment. The human voice is magical. Overcorrect it, and the humanity and bond are lost.
I'm starting to realize that the pitch correction is not just producers striving for perfection or to make editing easier, but also a part of the disparagement of vocalists in the recording industry. Top-notch instrumentalists are more reliable and efficient.
"People want to hear the person's voice, warts & all."
Yes & amen. Best synopsis full stop.
Songs From the Big Chair, I love that album. I still have it and play it at least once a week. It was such a unique sounding duo back in the late 80s.
Absolute classic!...
I bought that album in the 80s too, during my divorce! It helped me escape for a bit.
@@constancemerwin8171 Probably a good job you didn't buy The Hurting at the time. Some great songs, but might have tipped you over the edge (Start of the Breakdown, Memories Fade).
@@constancemerwin8171 Good job you didn't buy The Hurting😉. Great album, but might have tipped you over the edge (Start of the Breakdown, Memories Fade)...
I loved this song and it sounds so flat in that "live" recording! Thanks for playing the original---it cleaned my palate.
One of my favorite bands and songs. They don’t need help!!
Especially Roland 😉
I love TFF too
They don’t! So why?
I agree, I will take the original voices over those that have been tampered with all day long! It's them and we like them the way they are naturally!
@@pisceananomaly That's not what we are talking about. We're talking about pitch correction specifically.
Your explanation of this could not have been any better. This gives me a greater appreciation for singers without pitch correction. I really like Curt's natural voice as well as this song and Tears for Fears. Thank you Fil for sharing this video and helping us to appreciate the artists natural voices.
This is one of your best posts yet! I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think humans need to have that emotional connection with the "unaided" voices/songs. It speaks to our souls ❤️🎸🙂
Accuracy at the expense of soul.
My words while I watched this exactly! Heart & soul removed.... Dead music.
If I went to see live, I want live
Sigh..
Excellent description of this abomination called pitch correction.
Yes!!
And the irony is it costs money to do the pitch correction. (Even if automatically done, someone had to write the software and someone had to pay for it.)
I saw The Who in 1979 and again, with my son, in 2013. Roger’s vocals were VERY different, but they were ROGER’s VOCALS! Fascinating analysis as always. Disturbing-but fascinating! 👍🏼❤️🫡
I grew up with Tears for Fears and still love their sound today but I could tell that there was something off with the video fairly early on, even with my older ears. I love that I grew up in a time when you really felt the personality and emotions of the singers in their music. It's a connection that doesn't fade with time.
This shows a concept that I have been going by for a long time. The written music is not how you play or sing the music (unless your are in a classical orchestra), it's how you learn how to play or sing the music. There is artistic interpretation for any musical piece or performance. This is even true with classical music where the musicians really do generally try to play the music exactly as written.
My elderly mom was a jazz singer in Chicago (& Al Jarreau actually opened for her once way back, then reunited at a dry cleaners in LA decades later 👀😄🤷♂️). Say that to say this …
I had her watch Fil on Ronstadt first and she flipped out over him! 😅 She’s prolly his oldest fan, and it just shows how a personality as humble, earnest, & welcoming as our man here is ageless.
And I love that because it’s nigh impossible today. Good ON ya, Fil! Thanks for makin my ol’ Ma smile so often. 🤟
Thanks again, Fil. Another great video! I feel lucky to have grown up with the ‘60s, ‘70’s and ‘80’s music.
So do I 😃🎶
If people are noticing pitch correction more, I think it's thanks to you , Fil. Nobody else is calling out these "corrected" performances.
Rick Beato does.
OK, I thought Rick only reviewed guitarists@@trinitytoo
Best moment ...driving on rt 9 from San Jose to Santa Cruz with my buds..and this song ruled the world !
Takes me back to a convertible, driving through the mountains down south. My last carefree year before graduation.
There’s definitely something magical about this song. The whole production of it is perfection. These guys were one of the greatest bands since the Beatles, with regard to songwriting, production and overall sound. It screams 1980s for me, takes me right back, everything is fresh and new. Every album of theirs is highly listenable today, more of an overall feel of the music here that’s important, all the new electronic instrumentation. The bass and drums in this song were electronic, they definitely carved a niche for themselves that few after them did as well.
That’s illegal BTW. You are not allowed to wear any devices that impede your hearing whilst driving a car in CA. Be warned.
Sounds like a lovely memory
I love to watch Phil's knowledge and passion for the subject.
This is definitely their most iconic song, but “The Seeds of Love” is the Crown Jewel of their catalog and I would so much rather see them perform those songs live.
Also, when you said they’re “hitting lines quite regularly” I lost it 😂. Wasn’t thinking pitch correction.
I disagree. There's three songs towards the end of that album that seem to tell a story, and Advice for the Young at Heart from early in the album... the rest of that album I do not like at all. Woman in Chains and the title track are downright obnoxious and cheesy.
I was in my prime of youth when this song hit. This autotuned version sounds like a photocopy of a photocopy . I've worked in the business and many younger mixers mix with their eyes -- obsessing over pitch graphs and waveform displays. Digital recording and mixing tools have added superfluous and distracting visual dashboards to a process that should be done by ear.
We are at the point where they aren't even doing it for artistic purposes, it's just a knee jerk response from mixers who think that's their job.
You should do an episode on the rhythmic parallel of this issue: click tracks and tempo quantizing. A metronome-perfect tempo removes all the subtleties from the groove of a song in the same way pitch correction kills the vocals.
It really is bizarre. At least that Deadmou5 dude understands humorously that "drawing" music is total bull. The "biz" isn't getting it.
As the intro winds down into the last few seconds before Curt starts singing, my heart starts racing in anticipation of hearing my favorite song of all time. Even after all these years.
Thanks for the video.
I saw TFF here in the US in 2022. They were amazing. 100% I would pay to see them again.
I love the sharp last guitar note. It’s intentional.
Fil, great analysis pointing out the difference between pitch correction and his natural voice ! You have taught my ears to pick up pitch correction ! You are a fantastic teacher ! Just great ! ❤❤
When you look at them singing, it looks like they were trying hard to get it right. I have a feeling the unadulterated vocal probably sounds pretty darn good. Sadly, some techno-nerd in post processing thought it would be best though to run it through the correction software to make them sound like robots.
They had to have agreed to it. Breaks my heart. Tom petty would wag his head and slowly walk away.
@@JeffMTXasumo que sabes que en los 80s era normal que en los programas de TV "los obligaran" a usar playback sin importar lo magníficas que fueran las voces, el de nuestros tiempos es que igual loes condicionan , o avuerdan con sus c estas correcciones a oesar fe que sus voces cantan!!
I am a 68yo lady who experienced in full the “Garden of Eden” of what music, artists and creation was back in the days. Some years ago I stumbled on this channel and was gobsmacked by Fil’s explanations. This is precious stuff. I still check his posts and well, this one really shocked me, in a very good way shall I say! I knew that nowadays music is “bleached” by autotuning, but I didn’t really know what that meant. And now I am gutted. I wonder what Rembrandt would say if still alive and painting, if some sort of software would go over his brushe strokes and correct them! Art stands out throughout exactly the individuality of the artist… why do this to music?! Thank you Fil for explaning so well what we “buy” when listening to nowadays… 😢
"Old"!?
Now I really feel old...😂😂😂
😂 Pre 1997 to be more precise!
@@wingsofpegasus 1997 being 4 yrs after I left Uni....urghh
I KNOW! I just made basically the same comment, LOL!
VERY "pre". LOL! You are too kind, Fil!@@wingsofpegasus
😂
I definitely like no pitch correction more
Not me. I like pitch correction
@@nina1963dec to each their own
@@bttrflygal It was a joke, of course I hate it!
@@nina1963dec didn't know :)
Missing the line is human, thats where we get the feeling - mood for the song from. The original recording was great why spoil it. It takes me back to mime on TOTPs. great video 👍
Another great analysis, thanks! I guess "live" doesn't mean what it used to, unfortunately.
Thanks Fil I can’t imagine anyone liking the pasteurized artificial sound of songs that are pitch corrected. imperfection is part of humanity … you mentioned PERSONALITY … That’s it in a nutshell 😂✌🏼
When I left the US Army after nearly 6 years of service,, this song was on heavy radio rotation. It became my anthem as I moved from the Army to college. I hear the song and am instantly back to to days of transition and hope.
One of my favs from 1985.
I just love the Original! Fil, you are the master! So much respect!!! 💜
Hi Fil,
This is a great song. Very classic 80s. Right up there with Sweet Dreams by the Eurhymics. Interesting comparison from the “live” version to the original record. Awesome analysis and so nice to revisit these cool songs from the 80s. You Are Awesome! Debbie ☮️
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. I consider pitch-corrected voices analogous to mirrored face halves: It is unnaturally perfect, and thus unsettling, consciously or unconsciously. A certain amount of asymmetry is what makes a face or a voice human: living flesh and blood, not a machine.
I'm really enjoying your analysis videos ❤
I want to hear the genuine, un-"corrected" voices of the artists! Thank you Fil for analyzing this.
Is this done while they are singing live, or edited in later?
Thank you Fil. I also am learning a lot about why I like the singers and performances that I do and why some don't sound quite normal.
There used to be much discussion about musicians sounding totally different live than on the recording… And the sign of a great musician was them sounding just like the album, live.
Bee Gees were great at that.😊
This was so interesting. Fil, love your smile of delight at the real live original production. Love to hear the personality in the song . Love your comparisons. Keep on keeping on!
Thanks for doing this great old song I still sing along to it on the oldies channel
Amazing comparison Fil. Couldn't agree with you more about the pitch correction. I can't listen to that digitised, over-compressed Dalek-style vocal timbre on most modern recordings. It hurts my ears, as well as my sensibilities. To me it sounds like the vocal is being delivered through some kind of digital squawk box rather than emitting from human vocal chords. The studio version is head & shoulders superior to the over post-produced "live" performance. Hadn't even realised that pitch correction was a thing in live shows these days.
Well analyzed! Very informative, and now its one of those "I can't unhear" things. I *think* that's a good thing :-)
Absolutely love this song! Thanks for covering it Fil.
It never gets old. LOVE them.
Thank YOU, Fil 🖤🤘🏽
I've always felt that Brian Ferry had such a distinctive and soulful voice. You couldn't mistake Brian's vocals for anyone else's. Likewise, for Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull). Thanks, FIL.
Love this song! The isolated vocal does sound mechanical in the Sirius XM performance. I'd wonder if it was because they are older and their voices may have changed over time, but they are doing this everywhere, so probably not the reason.
Heard them live on tour last summer. Absolutely every bit as good as they ever were...maybe even better?
I always learn something from you, and I truly appreciate it. So enjoyable, too!
Great song and analysis and appreciate both vocals on screen for comparison. 🙂🎸🎵
Old song! Time flies. 😆 My young ears experienced love at first listen when I first heard them sing & Shout. Sowing the Seeds of Love is my favorite, I think.🌻
I used to love singing along to 'Shout' in my working days,but my favorite song by far is"Woman in Chains".
A Fantastic view Fil! Appreciate you & the work you do immensely. Lol always a blast Bro! "except when we had Cofu @ the same time!"😊 Cheers to continued success friend, Luv&Peace,💛✌🏼🤘🏼💫
Thank you so much Fil! I appreciate you explaining these things so well with passion.
The natural human voice is the most beautiful instrument
What a great observation, and I think it's spot on! Just bought this Tears for Fears record on vinyl last week, because I still love it so much.
That’s the best song of the 80s IMO and the video is great. They didn’t need to alter it. Thanks, Fil. I thoroughly enjoyed this analysis.
Great song but there’s so many better songs from the 80s. In my opinion of course.
Where the streets have no name
Thank you, Fil for this analysis. I saw them live back in the day. I love this song. It never gets old .You have taught me to listen. Again, I don't see why pitch correction even exists.
Love this song ❤️. The lyrics are timeless. Enjoyed this one Fil. 🙂💯
This was awesome I really enjoyed it. Super
fascinating!
Tears for Fears is one of my all time favorites of any era. The main reason for that, besides their wonderful, intelligent lyrics, is the passion and emotion they put into their songs. I'm very disappointed to see that very essence that I love so much now being removed from their songs.
Count me among those that can now tell that something is "wrong" with some live vocals because of your analysis videos. I don't know whether to thank you for educating me, or yell at you for educating me! 🙂 One thing is for sure - I'm soooo glad that I discovered music in the 60s, when it was pure.
I think this is why I enjoy our local blues festival so much. It’s honest live music, just good musicians and singers with no alterations. The way it used to be for all music. I miss that. Great analysis Phil !
The "not perfect voice" was just perfect!!!
My daughter took my granddaughter to see them when she was 16 and she was so impressed at how good they were live. At 17 she took her to see Adele. Of course she couldn’t believe how good she was live. She is now 18 and their next concert is Madonna (not my cup of tea) but i wonder what that experience will be like. The three of us also saw Fleetwood Mac together and what a relief to me she liked that one also
I read that Adele refused to let them autotune her music. Although I think it's done unknowing without the artist consent sometimes.
Waste of money.
Emotions do sound way better then pitch correction songs. Thank you for sharing. 😎
Great song and great analysis! Love Tears for Fears, so good!
Another great reaction, Fil. Thank you
Just as I can hear compression of dynamics, thanks to your video I can now hear the synthesizer-like sound of pitch correction.
I'm not sure whether to be thankful for that or not. ;-)
(Seriously, THANK YOU.)
I've seen them live several times recently and they sounded amazing. Not sure why someone felt the need to pitch correct like this.
Your example of a pitch corrected voice at 4:56 was spot on.
great analysis and explanation. learned a lot.
They sound so good I could cry. This song has always been a favorite of mine.
There is a very good cover by Brothertiger!💙💙💙💙💙🦩
@@DonnaGisellaTranchel
I agree.
reminds me of some may things that were going on in my life when it came out.
@@dcallan812 Through Spotify I have lists of music from all my life... Listening is like travelling in time... Fascinating..! The Brain Works in Mysterious Ways! 💙💙💙💙💙🦩🦩🦩
If you like instrumental stuff . Kent nishimura does a fabulous finger pick guitar version of ths song
Ah, if you love this, then I cannot urge you enough to give a listen to Roland Orzibal's 90's album Raoul And The Kings of Spain. It's truly the best music to come out of that decade, which I realize isn't saying much, but it truly is a fantastic effort.
Thanks Fil such a great group just as good live as we can see.
Thx Fil for this breakdown. Everyone looked & sounded different back then & that was the point!
I started revisiting my generation's music 3 years ago and, looking at some vids of 70s concerts, noticed that something was not quite right with music and voices I was very used to hearing. Now I know it's not my ears - you've burst my music ballon. But, being a cynical old coot, I don't mind - I'm becoming an autotune hunter and I like it.
I would like to add a request that you react to Ren and Chinchilla singing Chalk Outline live!
Yes! One of my favourite performances ever!
You really know your stuff. I thoroughly enjoy listening to you.
Yes, yes....thank you so much for this analysis and explanation! What we are hearing...and feeling...the complexity and effects that are nearly infinite. You help so much in articulating the effects and emotions that we experience when listening to music. Along of course with the technologies that are shaping the end results of a musical expression.
* read title *
"old songs"
* realizes I am GenX and am... officially old.
LOL! I look forward to watching this one when I'm done with work stuff!
OMG Fil I went to see Tears For Fears in 1989 here in le Colisée de Québec they were a brand new band back then and I saw the announce in the journal and wondered if it was worth to go and see them heck it was one of the great show I saw in my life I am so happy you took TFF for analysing it and as usual I still learnt something new as I never thought it was auto tuned in 1989 and the auto tune was created in 1998 I love your way to analyse I just search a new manner to exprss my feeling but I begin to be out of vocabulary lol Thank you so much again for the great work you do with much love I say much love to you and \m/ Even Roland Orzabald thought me 1 french word laque pour cheveux in English Breal Cream lol
quality work as usual my sage friend...
Have loved TfF since the beginning, have loved this record since it first came out, and beyond your interesting analyses of these performances--I got such a delightful kick watching your big smile as you listened back to the original recording. 😄
Yeah, that performance sounds like a watered down version vocally. That's a bummer. It really is a great song. I feel so much nostalgia hearing the original. I still have Tears for Fears Greatest Hits on cassette tape 😊.
Perfection is boring and especially in music we need that inperfection or emotion in the singer’s voice to make us feel. Meaningful song lyrics sung with soul touch you so much more deeply. Imagine pitch correcting Janis Joplin😢
I didn't particularly like Tears for Fears back in the day, whether in studio or live.
But I did recognize them for how damned good they were.
Thanks for helping me recall Tears for Fears, and for helping me appreciate them all over again
Isnt is so nice to identify and recognize amazing talent, while not having to like the sound. Whilst I was a Tears for Fears fane, there were plenty of other bands that were clearly exceptional, I just didn't groove with them.
The great thing about TFF is that they didn't stand still. A song like War of Attrition with its grungy guitars or the flamenco Sketches of Pain couldn't be further from this.
It's so educational to hear/see these new versions compared to the originals of decades ago. Great job on these analysis Fil!
Heavens, I haven't heard this song in years.. thankyou Fil....I always enjoy your tech explanations