Dune: A Hard-Boiled Lord of the Rings

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 25 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 479

  • @accreditedbythenicemaninth6495
    @accreditedbythenicemaninth6495 3 роки тому +642

    To sum up what I got out of this video, LOTR and Dune are describing two aspects of the same world we live in. Dune is written by an enlightenment thinker who is focused on the material machinations of our fallen world and working under the assumption that there will be nothing to save it from itself. LOTR is written from the Christian view that the fallen world we live in is temporary and that we are eternal spiritual beings undergoing a short mortal experience and that story focuses on overcoming the world through the triumph of spiritual virtues.

    • @zachlong5427
      @zachlong5427 3 роки тому +35

      Yup. That there's it. Can't sum it up better.

    • @KP-zd3hc
      @KP-zd3hc 3 роки тому +29

      Makes sense when Dune is set in a high-tech, science-based setting

    • @pilgrimatwar
      @pilgrimatwar 2 роки тому +25

      Very well said. I have come to similar conclusions.
      Some my observations thus far include:
      Basically Dune is a future where Jesus never comes and Humans have to be the authority or seek freedom and peace in some other way.
      Tolkien paints a world with Prophecy, a divine plan of redemption, the ultimate erradication of sin and evil, and events analogous to the the second coming of Christ. He portays a sort of predestination for at least certain events, a one true God (Eru-Illuvitar) and source of all, some of whose thoughts made animate (the Ainor, Valaar, Maia) and introduce the divine guidance and intervention elements. The 5 wizards being divine beings incarnated in the form of old men were intended to function in a role similar to Jesus in our world, and are perhaps the best example of this divine guidance element that is not present or prominent in Herbert's work. The eagles are such a Deus ex Machina or Divine Intervention that they are memed continually to this day and Tolkien himself recognized how sparingly such a literary device ought to be used.

    • @inkbythebarrelandpaperbyth6905
      @inkbythebarrelandpaperbyth6905 2 роки тому +4

      Legend

    • @MrJibbajabbawocky
      @MrJibbajabbawocky Рік тому +1

      ​@@pilgrimatwarso... Dune is better than LotR. We agree! (J/k)

  • @jimluebke3869
    @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +664

    “We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.”
    - CS Lewis

    • @thehavoccompany-a3
      @thehavoccompany-a3 3 роки тому +17

      This is obnoxiously relevant to the "progressive" (regressive) ideologies of today.
      Like, you know it's bad when a white "liberal" woman is the one wearing a guerrilla mask while throwing eggs at a black man (Larry Elder) just because he has differing political views.

    • @robonick3607
      @robonick3607 3 роки тому +23

      @@thehavoccompany-a3 I don’t interpret that quote as matching either the modern right or left. I think if you do, you’re actually part of the problem.

    • @TheMooseManKing
      @TheMooseManKing 3 роки тому +34

      @@robonick3607 fair enough, but C.S. Lewis himself would absolutely be considered a right winger today

    • @robonick3607
      @robonick3607 3 роки тому +13

      @@TheMooseManKing doesn’t mean everything he says stands for his political ideology.

    • @billykebabs81
      @billykebabs81 3 роки тому +52

      What C.S. Lewis is saying is that when culture has gone so far off track in the wrong direction, progress actually means going backwards to the point where it all started going wrong, and getting back on the right track to recommence actual progress.

  • @jacobleuchovius1123
    @jacobleuchovius1123 3 роки тому +273

    I love how God-Emperor of Dune basically goes even further backward from feudalism into pharaonic autocracy. The first chapter of that book is basically some academic lecture from the far, far future about archaeological findings of the Leto II era, which is itself set 3,500 years after the first book...

    • @neatwheat
      @neatwheat 3 роки тому +15

      A lot of trippy thoughts. Pretty spaced out author. In a good sense, of course.

    • @ismata3274
      @ismata3274 3 роки тому +12

      Which is why them books are soo lovely.

    • @tomkatt8274
      @tomkatt8274 3 роки тому +11

      @@ismata3274 Dune is a modern day space age fairy tale

    • @JosephAmodeo-u2n
      @JosephAmodeo-u2n Рік тому +2

      fanaticism & interest in archetypes allows imperfect people to basically undo what little democratic & libertarian leaps forward we’ve been able to set up based on pure logic of what would make this materialist & meaningless hellscape less unbearable… at least in the book

  • @rhett6946
    @rhett6946 3 роки тому +522

    Herbert is doing epic ‘fantasy’(has all the tropes) in a sci-fi setting, with political realism.
    Martin is subverting the epic fantasy setting with literary realism.
    Tolkien is doing high mythic fantasy with an emphasis on escapism. I guess you could call it metaphysical realism?

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +89

      brilliantly and succinctly said

    • @jimluebke3869
      @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +47

      Martin isn't writing fantasy, he's writing horror. And I don't mean the white walkers.
      When I realized this, I quit reading his books.

    • @Martin-rh6bn
      @Martin-rh6bn 3 роки тому +6

      @@jimluebke3869 could you explain what you mean by that please?

    • @jimluebke3869
      @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +46

      @@Martin-rh6bn Martin writes books where everything someone could believe in, turns against them. It's like a movie where your grandmother turns into a snake and attacks you.
      Martin is a nihilist. He's not going into the woods (metaphorically speaking) to find a way through, or to come back with a boon -- he's going there to lay down and die.
      That's why he can't finish the stories. He has nothing real to say, except to complain.

    • @sigmus1475
      @sigmus1475 3 роки тому +34

      @@jimluebke3869 That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

  • @tvede1027FML
    @tvede1027FML 2 роки тому +64

    So im an Afghan war vet and I am very angry about how that war was conducted, and I took my dad to see Dune when it came out and I greatly enjoyed it. Your point linking the two hit something, can't really describe. I like it

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  2 роки тому +31

      thank you. I am honored that you were not offended by my comment. I have a lot of respect for the American military. The defeat in Afghanistan was a defeat of the political class.

  • @Black_pearl_adrift
    @Black_pearl_adrift 3 роки тому +169

    "THE SPICE IS OIL" it is so embarrassing that I missed this. I kept thinking, hmmm, what type of substance is super valuable but is also kind of bad for people (spice being highly addictive) and runs transportation systems... the spice is fucking oil. Thanks, mate.

    • @EdwardENigma
      @EdwardENigma 3 роки тому +40

      And the spice is extracted from a barren desert land.

    • @jackp492
      @jackp492 2 роки тому

      Could be it’s opium, the travel not necessarily being physical, such as how you travel to other worlds when you read a book, you don’t move in physical space and you are outside the worlds time in your world and the books world
      I’ve never taken it, but it’s seems to me it’s more likely opium,

    • @thelordofcringe
      @thelordofcringe Рік тому +1

      @Edward E. Nigma hey, I know Texas is pretty hot but it's not barren!

  • @Antreus
    @Antreus 2 роки тому +54

    Great points. I always think Dune is better read as devolution from a higher principle of divine origin that can never be returned without repentance because the spirit of Man is accursed, not in perfect relationship with that which created it, operating outside of it's authority, while masking supremacy as glory, yet the higher principle of God or natural law always judges the degenerated form. Egoism is heavily at work and the nature of an eternal soul is definitely missing to make people less prideful and more humble to their departure from divine grace and providence or return to innocence.
    Dune demonstrates very well the reality and antipathy towards the reality of God as being a loving one, because it presumes our innocence, and assumes we never fell from divine grace and just emerged into a world of chaos. We are born innocent but with us the corrupting, irreconcilable spirit of Man which creates inequities, because of the ego and will to dominate others, thinking the ends justifies the means in an accursed world devoid of a loving Creator who has forsaken us. Iinstead of anticipating a point of reconciliation or hope, it just plays the sad harp of human nature in a political diorama. There is nothing new under the sun, unless something is created from nothing, of which humans are incapable of doing without tampering or bending pre-existing laws
    It's sad Herbert wrote all of this work and couldn't fathom or remark on the axiomatic agonist which acts upon his moral dilemma -- that we were in fact created out of love and with freewill to obey that which created us or to turn away from love, and to be deceived in pride and arrogance, in the God-king "I am God" mode which I think is pure folly and the blood-soaked pages of history demonstrate that
    There is no law above love in my view and that of the Bible. Perfect love casts out all fear. Love is patient, kind, does not boast, seek its own want, endures all things, believes all things.
    Dune doesn't believe this. Love has no metaphysical dimension outside of the physiology and libido in his novel. It is a cold, loveless, and lawless world with relativistic deconstruction of morality into tribalism and no divine comedy

  • @anixprophet1966
    @anixprophet1966 3 роки тому +20

    It’s also important to divide realism from internal consistency. Realism is when you take an aspect of reality and depict it accurately. Internal consistency is when the rules of your setting are applied consistently.

  • @loonie5468
    @loonie5468 3 роки тому +71

    It really is hilarious to me that, because of the 1-year delay, the Dune movie will come off as some sort of perfectly politically-timed 'subversion' of the savior trope far more effectively than anything GRRM came up with. But I agree - it was never Herbert's main focus (all of his interviews reveal he's nowhere near as focused on subversion and comparing himself to literary predecessors as GRRM is). Really, I'd just say all of this is a testament to how timeless its story was and still is, because as you said it is based on pessimistic enlightenment. Elon Musk and AI might seem as inevitable, but by no means does this mean that our version of a Butlerian Jihad can't happen and we'll just revert to some sort of space feudalism.

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +20

      I'd be down for a Butlerian Jihad. the Spice must flow, my bro

    • @Randomness65535
      @Randomness65535 Рік тому +3

      This comment was written a year ago before we had this crazy explosion of AI generated content. I can already foresee how AI could be capable of rendering the internet incomprehensible or otherwise unbearable to humans in one way or another, forcing many to completely eject from the internet and the digital as a whole.

  • @Chad_of_numenor
    @Chad_of_numenor 3 роки тому +16

    It’s great to watch the channel grow with each video. Just starting dune and cant wait to get into it

  • @justinamerican8200
    @justinamerican8200 3 роки тому +74

    I don't think that Lord of the Rings is escapist in any measure of the word. So many times in real life people use the complexity of a given situation to disguise their cowardice, selfishness, or some other ulterior motive. Lord of the Rings is more an exercise of stripping away the excuses and laying down down a hypothetical proposition: when it's clear what is right and what is wrong, would you have to courage to stand and fight for what's right? Would you be willing to sacrifice for what is right? Would you be willing to fight even if victory were an impossibility because it's better to die fighting for what's right than live just for the sake of living?
    Lord of the Rings and some other works of fiction and fantasy are not simply taking away all the hard decisions of reality, but are peeling away the first layer of complexity to get at the deeper more primal and timeless challenge: Are you a man or a mouse?

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +37

      well said. By escapism I meant like in Plato's cave. Escaping the temporary world into one of eternal ideas which actually takes courage to leave behind our attachment to the world. I should have been clearer.

    • @justinamerican8200
      @justinamerican8200 3 роки тому +18

      @@PilgrimsPass You were more clear as the video went on. My comment was a case of premature articulation, posted at the 3:22 mark.

    • @eisenbergfilms9965
      @eisenbergfilms9965 3 роки тому +4

      More like: Are you a man or a monster?
      Well said btw.

    • @gerbilassassin3850
      @gerbilassassin3850 3 роки тому +11

      @@justinamerican8200 "premature articulation" lol

  • @calummacritchie7840
    @calummacritchie7840 3 роки тому +153

    13:20 What that woman is saying about hedonistic society approaching its fall is eerily accurate right now.
    Perhaps more story writers ought to symbolically expose this.

    • @WisdomThumbs
      @WisdomThumbs 3 роки тому +14

      The bronze age collapse has fascinated me for twenty years. Our world now resembles that world to a degree that I’m worried readers will look at my work as *just* modern commentary. But if someone wants to think that, oh well.

    • @danielschaeffer1294
      @danielschaeffer1294 3 роки тому +9

      That’s Camille Paglia. Google her. An interesting thinker.

    • @deriznohappehquite
      @deriznohappehquite 2 роки тому +3

      Every generation has thought that they would be the ones special enough to see the end of the world.

    • @fallencrow6718
      @fallencrow6718 2 роки тому +2

      @@deriznohappehquite I mean a lot have seen the end of their world.

    • @cybermidas3973
      @cybermidas3973 2 роки тому +4

      @@fallencrow6718 But NOT EVERY generation did, and way more often than not they were wrong on which reasons caused it, since the very early times when people thought the gods were punishing them for reasons they could not even explain clearly. Same now, people love to make comparisons with the historical past without even understanding what really happened and using it to justify their political derangements.

  • @barbarabaker1457
    @barbarabaker1457 3 роки тому +21

    "Baron of Mars." Made it that far and still laughing. Thanks.

  • @Extellus
    @Extellus 3 роки тому +10

    Dude your analysis videos are absolute bangers

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +3

      That's such an honor coming from you! I love your animations and you were one of my inspirations for the animations we're doing! damn I never imagined that you were watching my videos. Thank you.

    • @Extellus
      @Extellus 3 роки тому +2

      @@PilgrimsPass I actually just came across your stuff and binged it, keep it up dude :D

  • @Domzies
    @Domzies 3 роки тому +33

    I like your videos because it seems like you have many more concepts of life better organised and figured out than I do. Also that Aragorn video on true masculinity was amazing.

  • @stoptalking85
    @stoptalking85 3 роки тому +15

    Would love to see your video on the decline of civilizations that you mentioned at 18:00. Keep up the good work. Love the content, even when you're sleepy.

  • @muguripon
    @muguripon 3 роки тому +7

    Top notch quality my man. Great exposition

  • @FPRP1
    @FPRP1 3 роки тому +5

    Jesus Christ your so refreshing a youtuber, mate. I'm glad i found you.

  • @laruriel7419
    @laruriel7419 3 роки тому +52

    Dude, I soooooo appreciate your videos and even risked Dune spoilers (I’m 150 pages away from finishing it) to watch this video. If you’re interested in the cycles of history, The Fourth Turning is an excellent (if dense) book for theories on cycles and the Crisis cycle that we’re in now. Love that you compared Dune with LOTR. I’m almost scared to request a video of your thoughts on The Green Knight, an Arthurian tale put to movie recently- because I absolutely adore this movie and can’t bear to hear criticism yet- but it might be a great addition to your other videos exploring masculinity, and, what can I say, I appreciate your opinion! Anyway, you’re brilliant and keep making videos!! 😘😘😘

    • @InMaTeofDeath
      @InMaTeofDeath 3 роки тому +4

      I'd recommend not sleeping on the next 3 books in the series as they're also brilliant. Biggest shock for me was the 4th edging it way up to being nearly as good as the first book for me.

    • @elroliz9442
      @elroliz9442 3 роки тому +1

      The itjer books are a dumpter fire imo, but to each their own i guess

  • @Nobody32990
    @Nobody32990 2 роки тому +46

    Considering what hellish clown world march of "progress" created I am 50/50 on space feudalism.

    • @luker2693
      @luker2693 8 місяців тому

      Communism is like feudalism, but less honest.

  • @MrLucasVelten
    @MrLucasVelten 3 роки тому +10

    What a great channel and great find that I stumbled upon here.
    Lovely content, really appreciate you work man, and you putting your voice up here for us to hear it, great editing too.

  • @classicalneoplatonictheist5766
    @classicalneoplatonictheist5766 3 роки тому +7

    Great video! I actually found this from a recommendation I got from watching another video called ‘Why did Tolkien dislike dune’ which discusses why Tolkien didn’t like Dune when he read it back in the 60’s.

  • @ali1190
    @ali1190 3 роки тому +15

    I don't know what your background is or why you make these commentaries, but I like your analysis a lot. thanks

  • @openthearmoury
    @openthearmoury 3 роки тому +7

    Recently found your content. Keep it up felliw Pilgrim! I really appreciate your channel. It is nice just to know someone is out there that thinks deeper about these things like I like to do. :)

  • @jnapier32
    @jnapier32 3 роки тому +41

    Herbert's world is a world without Grace, without miracles. There is no escaping the eternal wheel for humanity a part from Love intervening and providing a way out of the enclosed circle.

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +14

      Good thing we don't live in that world.

    • @ubiwrongcomeatme3452
      @ubiwrongcomeatme3452 3 роки тому +2

      @@PilgrimsPass However, that is not the case. We may not live in the world inhabited by the characters of that fiction, but we do live in a world affected by the very values those characters hold dear. Power adherent to the ruled, however minuscule or grandiose in our society, is still felt, and we all share the burden of this cycle of helplessness to exterior factors. I think that's how Frank Herbert was able to create such a profound work of fiction, by studying what already is before us.

  • @shakilashams195
    @shakilashams195 Рік тому +3

    You make awesome videos please never stop making these❤

  • @gordonfreeman-g5w
    @gordonfreeman-g5w 3 роки тому +5

    Love your channel man. It's a gem.

  • @Zylo37-d2z
    @Zylo37-d2z 11 місяців тому +2

    I love both stories; LOTR is my go-to high fantasy novel every December, whereas Dune is my go-to science fiction novel. I know this was discussed in depth, but I wanted to rediscuss the difference between Paul Atreides and Aragorn II due to being the antithesis of each other.
    Aragorn II is the promised willing messiah who successfully redeemed the land from war and into an era of peace. In contrast, Paul Atriedes is a forced messiah who reluctantly plunges the galaxy into war. Paul's genetic lineage was bioengineered to produce a messiah, whereas Aragorn II's was perfectly preserved from pureblood Dunedain rangers (Northern Numenorean tribe) in Eriador. The missionia protectiva of the Bene Gesserit was a religious weapon to be used by any Bene Gesserit Witch (Concubine if you prefer) as needed, which the Lady Jessica (Paul's mother) used to great effect in Dune. Aragorn II's prophecies were attested by Elvish and Numenorean lore with divine assistance from the powers influencing Middle-Earth (Eru Iluvatar, the Valar, and the Maiar). Paul's appointment as the kwisatz haderach was forced upon him and he had no choice but to uphold it lest he and his mother perish. Aragorn II was in full control of the populace but did not let himself be swayed by false counsel, nor was he the figurehead of a jihad. Lastly, it is later revealed that Paul Atriedes was not the true kwisatz haderach in the books after Dune; essentially, Paul Atreides was a FALSE messiah that the Fremen were desperately hoping for. Aragorn II fulfilled all prophecies by his character, efforts in Middle-Earth before and during the events of LOTR, and assistance from mentors and comrades.
    Sorry, that was a lot, but as mentioned earlier, I love both stories, their respective lore, the characters, and so on.

  • @ministories9246
    @ministories9246 3 роки тому +46

    Couple of minor nit picks on a fun video.
    The Duke did not marry the Lady Jessica, he took her as a concubine yet loved her more than that title would indicate. The duke wanted to keep himself open to the possibility of political marriage to elevate himself and his house in the future. Not entirely sure if that's what you meant in that section but hey, it's a big series with a lot to remember and miss.
    Also, I'm not entirely sure I agree with your take on Paul's birth and his rule. This is mainly because while you accounted for the Bene Gesserit's breeding program and it's purpose, you ignored Lady Jessica's decision to bear the Duke a son. This is a mistake and throws the Missionaria Protectiva's original plan and efforts into turmoil.
    They try to utilize the plan anyways, because the sisters seeded primitive worlds with the idea of messianic figures, so hey, "use it to our advantage, come on Paul do your job"--Lady Jessica probably...lol
    By doing this they end up causing more problems and as you pointed out cause a different genocide to take place. In a sense the efforts to make a "divined" ruler fail, and as a result Paul fails. I find it rather poignant and biblical that in the end, it is the son that redeems the fathers mistakes (even though Leto II brings salvation through tyranny which is a whole different topic....¯\_(ツ)_/¯).
    Love the channel and these deep dives man. I know GoT isn't really your thing, but I think that it would be cool if you could dig into some of the lesser known biblical allusions that martin has done with it. There's quite a bit there that is clouded by modern takes.

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +17

      Yeah I realized my mistake on saying "Marriage" after I had finished. but indeed Lady Jessica was just a concubine. And you're right about Paul and Leto II as well, indeed, Jessica betraying the Bene Gesserit and producing Paul is a hint of love or something intangible having an effect on human history, as it is made explicit in the Appendixes of Dune. But I think Herbert mostly makes a naturalist work of fiction with perhaps some very faint hints at a metaphysical reality but I could be wrong. I still have to completely understand what prescience is supposed to be. Thank you very much for the feedback. And I do like some things from GoT, and I'll probably cut Martin a break and make a video about what I love about his work.

    • @ubiwrongcomeatme3452
      @ubiwrongcomeatme3452 3 роки тому +1

      @@PilgrimsPass Here's a hint: Prescience is being able to perceive where all paths lead, from your own perspective.

  • @jamesmunn576
    @jamesmunn576 3 роки тому +3

    This is fantastic work man!

  • @bennagel2180
    @bennagel2180 3 роки тому +7

    Well done, I hope the film makers understand Dune at the level you show in this video.

  • @isaackellogg3493
    @isaackellogg3493 9 місяців тому +3

    1:50 “The Spice is Ohio!”

  • @mmccrownus2406
    @mmccrownus2406 2 роки тому +6

    DUNE- how giant forces push human behavior. Mostly failure
    RETURN OF THE KING
    How human beings can join in the fight against gigantic evil forces

  • @StrongmanLovesAnimals
    @StrongmanLovesAnimals 2 роки тому +2

    This is so good! thank you for your hard work

  • @knightheaven8992
    @knightheaven8992 3 роки тому +7

    Very good takes on Dune.

  • @Level_Eleven
    @Level_Eleven 3 роки тому +5

    Me before watching this video: “This channel is lit why so few subs?”
    After watching: “Oh, UA-cam must hate this guy lol”

  • @MangakaDay
    @MangakaDay 3 роки тому +3

    Awesome video - food for thought - thanks a lot!

  • @deanerhockings-reptilianhu8701
    @deanerhockings-reptilianhu8701 3 роки тому +5

    Brilliant! This video is worth a rewatch or 5!

  • @lepmuhangpa
    @lepmuhangpa 3 роки тому +5

    Excellent video, very funny. You definitely should make more videos discussing things like this. Subbed.

  • @samuraimills1849
    @samuraimills1849 3 роки тому +3

    Great detail and interesting concept.

  • @Eniggma39
    @Eniggma39 9 місяців тому +3

    *THE SPICE IS OIL*
    😂

  • @acenull0
    @acenull0 4 дні тому

    We love the rambles dude 😂 thank you for being

  • @oldrichpriklenk5089
    @oldrichpriklenk5089 8 місяців тому

    this dude just made a video for himself mumbling to himself how confusing he sometimes is and i absolutely love it! It’s just revealing the thought processes with no hidden intentions

  • @samuraimills1849
    @samuraimills1849 3 роки тому +4

    I loved the video and content. Especially the Game of thrones and lotr video. Great video.

  • @TheHangedMan
    @TheHangedMan 2 роки тому +3

    I like that you were tired and kinda out of it for this video, it was actually funny... refreshing to see an imperfect video narration. You could say it's... UA-cam realism? 😆

  • @Shahi_lancer
    @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому +11

    Pilgrim every 3 minutes: by the way did I mention that the west is in decline?

    • @alexanderfox-robinson4910
      @alexanderfox-robinson4910 3 роки тому +8

      It's important

    • @hulking_presence
      @hulking_presence 3 роки тому

      Look at his pfp. His civilization never elevated itself enough to be able to fall.

    • @Shahi_lancer
      @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому

      @@hulking_presence Already fallen bro, same thing happened to us, consumed by decadence our people lost their spirit. Ever heard of the Islamic golden age?

    • @Shahi_lancer
      @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому

      I'm not black btw.

  • @Instigatin
    @Instigatin 3 роки тому +29

    It's an interesting take but I've always thought of it as more of an OG version of Game of Thrones than LOtR.
    Just power plays by noble houses set in a fantastical, dark age type setting, with heroes riding sandworms instead of dragons and with the good guys being just as bad or worse than any of the typical bad guys.

    • @Raydensheraj
      @Raydensheraj 3 роки тому +6

      You missed the philosophy, religion, the evolutionary psychology and there is other themes...Artificial Intelligence, Cloning, Consciousness etc.

    • @McDunks
      @McDunks Рік тому +2

      What are you talking about? Across all the books there are underpinnings of how ecology molds the culture, religion and morality of said society e.g. the Fremen.
      There are lessons on how power factions operate in a mercantile society with a few very valuable natural resources and how religion and philosophy is used to justify economic plunder and bondage, and what the long-term consequences of oppression are i.e. how the Dutch & English operated in Africa in the 17th and 18th century.
      How the Butlerian Jihad placed certain limitations on science and innovations, and how this lead to the different schools focusing on expanding consciousness and the human mind. This ultimately led to the societal structure of Dune, since egalitarianism was impossible to justify.
      There are countless more examples of this and these underlying themes of politics, prescience, ecology, religion, anthropology become more apparent in the later books. Some of them almost exclusively examine them i.e. God Emperor of Dune.
      It requires multiple readings to pick up these but they are always there bubbling there, under the surface. Very reductive to call it Game of Thrones in with sandworms.

    • @boarfaceswinejaw4516
      @boarfaceswinejaw4516 Рік тому

      then you clearly never read Dune.

  • @rodrigovaccari7547
    @rodrigovaccari7547 3 роки тому

    First time I watch your channel, I like the delivery.

  • @Black_pearl_adrift
    @Black_pearl_adrift 3 роки тому

    brb about to go binge-watch all of your videos

  • @neongenesis7236
    @neongenesis7236 9 місяців тому

    18:39 yes I am also call Mask as Techno-Baron(not Lord cause we could beat him). He literally has codes of deactivation of his products and could off internet like he had done on Taiwan US military base.

  • @peachesandcream8753
    @peachesandcream8753 3 роки тому +29

    As a woman I must say that the feminine (the West) can never overcome the masculine (Middle East). We've seen this time and time again althroughout history and it's delusional to think otherwise. Masculinity is bound by sheer determination and purpose, this is what drives men to do great and wonderful things and also what drives them to do terrible things too such as exploitation and destruction (think any war in existence). Femininity is bound by passivity and stability, this is what drives women to be homemakers and social leaders and it also drives them towards in-fighting and constant need for more and more control over others under the guise of "stability" leading towards societal collapse. The toxic masculine is dominated by the positive feminine which is then dominated by the positive masculine; it's always cyclical. What Dune is telling is a story of the positive masculine dominating the toxic feminine. What we need in the West is the positive Western masculine to come back and dominate the toxic feminine before the Middle East comes and does it for us, leaving us in a worse position.

    • @derpynerdy6294
      @derpynerdy6294 3 роки тому

      ooouuuuh interesting we need each other to balance both

    • @deriznohappehquite
      @deriznohappehquite 2 роки тому

      The Middle East is not in a position to dominate any civilization.

    • @peachesandcream8753
      @peachesandcream8753 2 роки тому

      @@deriznohappehquite yes it is. It's not going to dominate in the traditional sense, with a traditional army, but by out-breeding their hosts country's birth population, putting themselves into positions of power through education and then instigating Islam as the dominant faith; all facilitated by their host countries who are too arrogant to understand that not everyone thinks the way they do, and too blind to see that they let the Trojan Horse in willingly because they are hung up on this abstract concept of morality and need to be the saviour.

    • @capitanjulietti3436
      @capitanjulietti3436 2 роки тому

      Eh?

    • @cybermidas3973
      @cybermidas3973 2 роки тому

      Nonsensse. Its amazing how you were able to butcher history, sociology and anthropology in one single comment. Maybe if you read actual books on those subjects you would not be spouting such a baseless, Petersonian word sallad.
      The Middle East won't come to us nor conquer us anytime soon, ''lady''. The Afghan and Iraqi wars may have been flops in a sense, but in another, they were sucesses: the jihadis learnt their lesson and they're staying on their sandbox, mostly, and its extremely unlikely we will see any other 9/11 any soon. The refugees and violent migrants are, despite the problems, mostly under control and slowly seeing their own birthrates plummeting too. We won't be following their ways any time soon.
      Neither will the ''macho'' Eastern Europe conquer us. Its biggest power, Russia, its not even able to be the first power in Ukraine. Most people despise everything russian macho culture represents, and the russian failings show where Herbert failed to acknowledge actual history: that most of the time, its the macho nomads who lose and the ''femme'' sedentary societies the ones who triumph.
      The macho wannabes in the West are the ones wrecking havoc, but also being rejected and turned into pariahs, not the ones bringing order. From a Trump who almost wrecked his nation's budget to the incel and red pill mass killers. We see through their BS and know that real progress does not lie with the old ways, but with new ways.

  • @ControAuthor
    @ControAuthor Рік тому +2

    One small note, Leto did not marry the Lady Jessica in Dune; she was his concubine. They avoided marriage despite their love because Leto could forge alliances with other Houses as long as he had something to offer them: Jessica.

  • @JamesSmith-hw6tl
    @JamesSmith-hw6tl 3 роки тому +3

    Absolutely brilliant. Curious on your take of how the upcoming film evokes these concepts.

  • @andresf9072
    @andresf9072 3 роки тому +3

    not gonna lie, I read the title of your video and went immediately into rage mode... then I watched. Well said, I hadn't thought about it like that.

  • @DeoCreative
    @DeoCreative 3 роки тому +1

    Having never read (and in the case of LotR, seen) either works (I know how could I do such a thing!!) it seems what you're getting at with Aragorn and Paul is that Aragorn has an "x-factor" that can't be quantified, certainly not on paper. It is not "of this world." While Paul was quantified, bred on paper before to produce what he is now. In a word, Aragorn and by extension Tolkien factor in the immaterial while, Paul and by extension Herbert are working strictly within a materialist perspective? Great video.

  • @lordlatch
    @lordlatch Рік тому +1

    I like your witty humour.

  • @0ld_Scratch
    @0ld_Scratch 3 роки тому +1

    I found a new obsession, I watched this video three times this week. Will you do more on this subject?

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +3

      Yes I have a Dune video planned after my next one on Avatar. I plan to have it out around the 22 of this month

    • @0ld_Scratch
      @0ld_Scratch 3 роки тому

      @@PilgrimsPass nice, can't wait!

  • @loganw1232
    @loganw1232 2 роки тому +1

    Wonder if Dune is how DC or Marvel would turn out with their superpowered humans that act like gods and/or titans lots of the time.

  • @mdchiesi
    @mdchiesi 3 роки тому +3

    Good job pointing out that Paul's prescience isn't magic, and he isn't a real messiah for the Fremen. His prescience is a combination of a) being prepared by his dad and Thufir to have the capacity to be a mentat so as to be a formidable Duke, b) being trained by Jessica to be a male Bene Gesserit in terms of observation of minutiae, self control of mind and body, and c) the genetic disposition to perceive possible futures through DNA impacted by spice consumption. A and B Enable him to see endless minutiae and literally calculate limitless possibilities based on these things. C allows him to have the "trinocular" vision to see the present and past and future. He can see the role created for him by the BG, his Dad and Mom, and Thufir, and takes advantage of the fanaticism of the Fremen solely for survival. It's also a great criticism of the "boy king" trope in Arthur and so many other areas (just look at how many gifted youngsters are the heroes of anime). People who have power want their kids to keep that power and give them hyperfocused resources. It can seem good and natural but in the end the consequences are beyond imagination. I mean look at how many people in our government are the children of the aristocrats and how much they screw things up. No matter which side you ascribe to, this assessment is very meaningful.

  • @mindthebrick9516
    @mindthebrick9516 3 роки тому +1

    This video was great. Never got around to reading dune or really looking into it but now I'm going to have to.

  • @tnightwolf
    @tnightwolf Рік тому

    I just really love both Sagas! So fkn glad to still be alive nowadays!

  • @mathiasbartl9393
    @mathiasbartl9393 3 роки тому +4

    Yeah the mongols weren't successfull because life in mongolia was hard, but because their specific lifestyle allowed them to mobilize a larger proportion of their population into high quality troops. There have been instances of stepp nomades coalesing from a tribal socienty into empires and raiding and conquering settled people over thousands of years, the mongols manged this transition particularily well institutionally hence they conquered the largest such Empire.

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +1

      indeed, their lifestyle was influenced by their harsh environment though, Imo.

  • @danielschaeffer1294
    @danielschaeffer1294 3 роки тому

    Thanks for including Camille Paglia.

  • @alistairbolden6340
    @alistairbolden6340 3 роки тому +4

    This is very well put together.

  • @safespacebear
    @safespacebear 3 роки тому +16

    Great video! Even tho as an American I always feel a bit read to filth after one of your videos.... but we earned it lol. I joke, but yeah I'm really really digging your channel. Keep up the great work

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +12

      I want to make a video complimenting you guys in the future. I still think America has had amazing contributions. this is me engaging in constructive criticism because we're all on the same boat as residents of this hemisphere.

    • @jimluebke3869
      @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +10

      @@PilgrimsPass There are a lot of Americans who agree with you on a lot of things you say about Americans.
      One thing I'd correct you on though -- what happened in Afghanistan was 100% a failure of leadership. The Taliban beat an army of lions led by sheep. If we had had a single real leader in the White House or highest levels of the military, this debacle would not have happened, and Americans know it.
      The San Francisco political machine is very powerful. Historically it has involved the brothel-keepers of that city, who have blackmailed the rich and powerful of the city. Recently, the rich of San Francisco have gotten very, very rich indeed. They are now very powerful, although not very talented, caring more about making San Francisco culture respectable in the United States and around the world, than about doing their jobs right.
      - Nancy Pelosi (San Francisco's Representative in Congress) is Speaker of the House, in spite of leading her party to electoral defeats that would have seen any Prime Minister in the world resign in disgrace.
      - Eric Swalwell (currently Congressman from the east side of San Francisco Bay, and still on the House Intelligence Committee, G*d help us all) has a known liaison with a Chinese spy
      - Gavin Newsom (former mayor of San Francisco) is California's governor, but he is widely recognized as incompetent and corrupt, and is likely to be thrown out of office in a couple of weeks.
      - Kamala Harris (former Attorney General of California) is the Vice President, a position she was installed into because of what's between her legs. Her start in political life was also a result of what's between her legs -- to get into politics, she played the courtesan with Wilile Brown (Former Mayor of San Francisco, and at the time the Speaker of the California Assembly).
      In the next few years, I expect to see one or more of the new independent journalists on the internet expose this political machine in all its gory details. =)

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +7

      @@jimluebke3869 America is going through a crisis of leadership because there is a crisis in the leadership system. America's fall is not guaranteed. its more than likely America will reinvent itself and persist in another golden age like Rome did. from Republic to the imperial age. this is a possibility. But I think the USA might not become an autocracy but an aristocratic republic.

    • @jimluebke3869
      @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +4

      @@PilgrimsPass The trouble with our system? The data that came out of the 2020 election (weird vote spikes in swing districts, excluding election observers from the counting rooms) makes a lot of us very suspicious that there was foul play there. The lack of any official hearing just makes us all the more suspicious, and that suspicion is not going away.
      I think that simply squeezing the worst of the corruption out of the system is more likely (and more desirable) than "reinventing" it. The Afghan debacle will do what Afghan debacles do -- discredit the people responsible, and keep them from having power and influence. That could be enough for Americans to rise up and say "ENOUGH, our current 'elites' are no good, we need new people."
      Expect a new crop of Americans in positions of power who are interested in playing for most Americans, and more importantly, playing to WIN. =)

    • @jertdw3646
      @jertdw3646 3 роки тому +1

      @@jimluebke3869 you aren't going to mention the conservative billionaires who also ruined this country? Or you only cal put the rich people who don't say the things you like? Weird.

  • @S1leNtRIP
    @S1leNtRIP 3 роки тому

    Dude, this is great stuff!

  • @HierophanticRose
    @HierophanticRose 3 роки тому

    Another undercurrent that is not much talked about is the wonderfully subtly weaved in is the analysis propagation of Radical Elements in the Middle East following the Suez Canal debacles and other such events of 19th and 20th centuries, both in how existing messianic archetypes in local myth were provoked internally and externally, but also how the myths of these messianic figures were not questioned for centuries, allowing for these agitations in the first place.
    And that is done simultaneously with the cerebral analysis and internal monologue of one such figure who both represents the agitator and the messianic figure.
    And in this wonderful amalgam of both in the prose, neither side feels opressingly present or preachy.
    At least in the first few books this element in present to some extent

  • @jimluebke3869
    @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +36

    Californians are insane. At least the ones that move there.
    I'm an ex-Californian, who was born there. We tend to have a bit better handle on the fact that San Francisco is barking mad.
    It's a little surprising that the rest of the world has had so much trouble spotting that, though.

  • @travisgray8376
    @travisgray8376 3 роки тому +6

    Love that U put out footage of the great Frank Herbert. He was a genius who is sometimes misunderstood and underappreciated. he was a great guy. Love Ur video peace.

  • @SawyerCoco
    @SawyerCoco Рік тому

    Watched a great video and you also made me laugh quite a bit good work !!

  • @matthewbreytenbach4483
    @matthewbreytenbach4483 Рік тому

    12:20
    Yeah no, Paul got the shaft.

  • @myqrizzo
    @myqrizzo 3 роки тому

    Thanks for the analysis

  • @isaackellogg3493
    @isaackellogg3493 9 місяців тому

    12:18 ‘He’s supposed to be a cautionary tale about not “Following the Science.’

  • @davidassis3530
    @davidassis3530 3 роки тому +17

    In the current state of the world and most importantly, of my soul, idealization is more needed than ever.
    Parabéns meu caro, não só por ser br (o canal é bom mesmo). Tendo em vista que você curte o gênero já leu Malazan Book of the Fallen?

    • @lucass.decordoba8195
      @lucass.decordoba8195 3 роки тому +3

      Is he brazilian?? Damm that's so hard to find one that makes this type of content in english... brazilian too here 👋

  • @nicokrasnow1851
    @nicokrasnow1851 3 роки тому +5

    Great video. This is out of the line, but as a Dune fan, what do you think of Alia and Ghanima having access to the male genetic line?

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +6

      I think that Alia being possessed by harkonnen maybe proves that the women have difficulty with male genetic line in Dune? I could be wrong

    • @nicokrasnow1851
      @nicokrasnow1851 3 роки тому +2

      @@PilgrimsPass yes, but the Reverend Mothers in general are incapable of seeing the male line, but both Alia and Ghanima were capable. So I was never sure if that was something possible due to both being preborn/Abominations, due to being almost Kwizsatch Haderach in terms of genetics or a combo.

    • @bobjoneswof
      @bobjoneswof 3 роки тому

      @@PilgrimsPass This was how I saw it.

    • @elroliz9442
      @elroliz9442 3 роки тому

      A lot of things don't make sense in the sequels. Frank was more worried about the ideas abd phylosopy imstead of tellimg a good story, thats my opinion anyway.
      Also, poor Alia, he did her dirty :(.

    • @nicokrasnow1851
      @nicokrasnow1851 3 роки тому

      @@elroliz9442 Alia situation was foreshadowed in the first novel.

  • @qujmilton
    @qujmilton 3 роки тому +1

    Excellent video

  • @nextos
    @nextos 3 роки тому +1

    Ok you won me back. Subscribed

  • @Shahi_lancer
    @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому +11

    Damn this guy, brilliant.
    Also I send you Salam from my Brothers in Afghanistan.

    • @adamnesico
      @adamnesico 3 роки тому +3

      Are you in Afganistan?
      Talibans haven’t forbidden internet?

    • @Shahi_lancer
      @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому +4

      @@adamnesico internet isn't forbidden by any interpretation of the shariah, so the taliban do not have any authority to ban the internet it seems.
      I am not in Afghanistan currently, but there is internet in Afghanistan, I can assure you of that since I connect with many living in Afghanistan using the internet

    • @jacobswiney9977
      @jacobswiney9977 3 роки тому +3

      @@Shahi_lancer how much of what the media is telling us about Afghanistan is a lie?

    • @Shahi_lancer
      @Shahi_lancer 3 роки тому +6

      @@jacobswiney9977 bulk of it is propaganda, few is true, they mix a little bit of truth with tonnes of blatant lies

    • @jacobswiney9977
      @jacobswiney9977 3 роки тому +6

      @@Shahi_lanceryeah that sounds about right,

  • @bungiecoocoo
    @bungiecoocoo 3 роки тому +1

    “I am so tired” (Ozzy Osbourne noises)

  • @EvansdiAl
    @EvansdiAl 3 роки тому +1

    as we say in baseball, you literally based the ball out of the stadium

    • @EvansdiAl
      @EvansdiAl 3 роки тому +1

      liked and subscribed!

  • @adrianaslund8605
    @adrianaslund8605 3 роки тому +4

    I like how that Dune has"Magic"that is made to almost sound feasible.
    Like Prana Bindu is perfect control over your bodies metabolic and neurological system like you were at the head of your body like you would operating a machine you had expertise of.

  • @Ericstone00
    @Ericstone00 3 роки тому

    So in other words I need to learn how to rap a towel around my head.

  • @iskandarthegreat0487
    @iskandarthegreat0487 11 місяців тому

    You always have some interesting things to say

  • @flynn659
    @flynn659 3 роки тому +3

    Do a video on Paul's view on the Holocaust

  • @therearenoshortcuts9868
    @therearenoshortcuts9868 3 роки тому +6

    you got me when you reminded me that this movie is coming out right after the Afghan withdraw...
    the first movie in the early 1980s came out in the middle of the Soviet (Harkonnenn) occupation? where the Fremen (Mujahidin) fought with Atreides (US) training... lol

  • @Black-Re4per
    @Black-Re4per 3 роки тому

    2:51 yo is he smoking spice? 😂

  • @Stratocumulus25
    @Stratocumulus25 3 роки тому

    Ahhh..that picture of Elon coupled with your title for him...Pure Gold !!

  • @jimluebke3869
    @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +4

    This is fantastic, getting a perspective from South America on media from the rest of the world.
    Are your takes on things common for people in your area, or are you fairly unique in your outlook?

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому +7

      thank you. As for my perspective. it varies, but I'm not completely unique. there's a growing movement of people who think like me and we have schools, universities, hospitals etc. I'm a latino Catholic so its not like I'm entirely unique in my outlook, but how common we are depends on the region.

    • @jimluebke3869
      @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +2

      @@PilgrimsPass It's good to know that there are good solid people in all parts of the world. =) Nice that you have universities on your side -- America has maybe one university on the side of sanity with a credible humanities program.
      Are there other English-language UA-camrs from your part of the world you could recommend, to someone who wants to listen to how English-language (and Japanese, and Indian, etc etc) entertainment is received there?
      Oh, and while I've got your attention, I'd like to pitch the Vorkosigan Saga to you again, for a phenomenal space opera and "love across the battle lines" story. "Cordelia's Honor" is a great place to start, and just go chronologically from there. It gets a little Woke by the end, but it's still a huge amount of fun in the early stories.
      If you could get the right telenovella people talking to the right Anime people, I suspect that you could produce something truly amazing, out beyond the reach of the insanity that is currently afflicting American media companies.

  • @echoesinthevoid4663
    @echoesinthevoid4663 2 роки тому +1

    Sir, do you still intend to make the video related to the evolutionary advantage of authoritarian systems?

  • @Not_So_Slim_Shady
    @Not_So_Slim_Shady Рік тому

    The day that shapes the flesh and the flesh that shapes the day

  • @geromesoriano
    @geromesoriano 3 роки тому

    excellent ramblings!

  • @Dogmelter42
    @Dogmelter42 3 роки тому +2

    Interesting. I'd like to see your interpretation of the Neravarine vs the Dragonborn stories from a literary standpoint.

  • @jacobkenyon676
    @jacobkenyon676 3 роки тому +3

    Is it strange that I wanted the video to continue like a podcast. Brilliant work I wounded if your just speaking your mind or do some planning to the videos

  • @Nalopotato
    @Nalopotato 3 роки тому

    Man, I suggest picking up that recording quality 😅 both in inflection, and in microphone quality. I had to cut this one short. This is the 4th video of yours I've watched tho. Keep it up

    • @PilgrimsPass
      @PilgrimsPass  3 роки тому

      a new mic is actually on the way. as for inflection, yeah I know, I'll work on it. Thanks

  • @TrueFork
    @TrueFork 3 роки тому +1

    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

  • @jimluebke3869
    @jimluebke3869 3 роки тому +2

    Did Geoffrey always get everything he wanted, though?

  • @lordlatch
    @lordlatch Рік тому +1

    8:18 lol

  • @elodin857
    @elodin857 3 роки тому +8

    based

  • @JohanHerrenberg
    @JohanHerrenberg 3 роки тому +1

    Excellent meditation.

  • @sakura3837
    @sakura3837 Місяць тому

    10:16 you're good bro👍🏻