I’ve flown that antenna - it’s baller. Preach! Love directionals. Not patches, but true directional antennas. Thanks a bunch for this big dawg! Antenna theory is one of the most important aspect of FPV that’s ALWAYS overlooked.
Anxiously awaiting that sweet all in one antenna cover to become available :) even if it did degrade 'behind me' performance I typically don't fly far behind me at all, so no big deal. I love the idea of having it all together like that.
You're ONLY as good as your best CLICKBAIT, that's what I always say 😃 Making generalized blanket statements is one of my favorite things to do as well!
Sorry that it seems like my video was taken as a direct shot at you. It wasn't meant that way. My point is that directional antennas have reduced coverage to the side and back, and that should be taken into account when you decide whether to use them. Your argument is that you get enough range and penetration from your directional antennas for the places you fly. So we are really in agreement there. I have personally experienced sitting in a courtyard of an office park and flying all around myself, and being annoyed that my ImmersionRC LZR patch array gave such bad coverage behind me that I noticed the reduction in range compared to the previous time I flew there with omnis. It just depends on the situation. If we look at the specs for the X-Air Mk2, they list the "flight beam" as 120 degrees. That's the width of the beam where the X-Air has higher gain than a 2 dBi omni. Even if we assume that the fleshy head is 100% blocking the signal to the rear, that's still at least 60 degrees of arc where the omni is providing higher gain than the X-Air. Maybe somebody cares about that 60 degrees and maybe they don't. I also don't 100% agree with the conclusion of the "fleshy head" argument--that adding omnis doesn't provide any advantage because the head blocks their coverage. Let's assume that the person's head is absorbing some amount of signal to the rear. The omni has 2 dBi of gain all around; compare that to the -5 to -15 dB of gain that the X-Air has in the rear 180 degrees of its coverage. Because the head blocks signal to both the omni and the X-Air equally, the omni still provides better coverage to the rear.
Thanks for the reply and for the watch. I have flown both ways, (with and without omnis) and saw so much improvement in the spots I fly, I switched to all crosshairs a long time ago, and never went back. I hope you give the x-airs a fair shot and actually try to fly with them, at the very least, in front of you. I think you will see the WalkSnail system differently if you do. Those antennas were the turning point that made me actually want to fly the WalkSnail system. When we ran singularities paired with xairs in the RotorRiot episode, it was not as good as when I flew 4 crosshairs. Even in the episode, I was facing forward (the wrong direction) and flying through the building to my left along the street. 90 degrees. Bubby wasn’t able to go as far with his mixed setup ua-cam.com/video/kVxeiE3-azA/v-deo.html @29:00 The main problem I had with your video, is the thumbnail, and the way your video was laid out, it made people think that you couldn’t fly beside or behind yourself if you used crosshair antennas. And, I wanted to show people, in this video, that it can be done, impressively. Going through 3 buildings, trees, a truck and my head, is a LOT of usable range and penetration. One more important detail to note, is when I fly 4 crosshairs, they aren’t all facing straight forward. I generally have them approximately 30 degrees off angle from each other, widening the coverage width.
Just installed this myself! It looks amazeballs but having some trouble with the range. Does it matter what orientation the trueX antennas are mounted? Iwe got them all with the writing horisontal. Went behind 1 small building 40 meters away and it dropped to 5mbit instantly. Btw, I was facing the drone while flying
I like your solution of making a box for the antennaes. The main reason i stick with stubbys is that they are easy to transport without having to take them off.
Good idea and when i was flying analog at the end the best combo for me was the 2 shield patch antena no more removing .... Could you please share to comunity the STL of the googles antenna plate it would be nice 😉.... HappyFlying .... ( i'm gona 3D scaning the original plate to redesigning it for 2 X-air , one on each side and at the end sharing it on Thingiverse ) ...
I think it's time to switch from the iflight crystal patch antennas with the stubbies and run this set up in the video. I've noticed 0 improvement with range and penetration with the iflight. Good quick video. Appreciate it.
Hi, Thanks for your sharing. I'm new to fpv. So is the faceplate coming soon to be sell on thingverse for 3d printing, and I should buy 4 x air antenna (x air vs x2 air which one better price/performance?) Then open my walksnail goggles and connect to the faceplate? Do you have the detail video guide for this? Thank you
In this video, you using 4 pcs of Truerc X Air? or using X2 Air ? I going to shopping, but still wondering between x air or x2 air, dont know which one best value
Yes. Unfortunately, I don’t think you can change the default antennas on the vrx. I worry they will be low quality built in patches, similar to their stock antennas that came with their goggles. :(
@@robaxelsson530 they might actually have ufl connections on the inside. It would be cool to see a nice 3d printed shell that could house 4 truerc x-airs
Great video, can you do a video like this but with 4 omni antennas and then but it side by side? I might try 4 patches now lol i didn't expect it to be that good
Hopefully, I can find the time. I always planned to do this, but, it is extremely time consuming. A lot of people have been asking for it, so I will try to make it happen. :)
I’m fairly new to the hobby and rc in general but would the pick up patter of an antenna be similar to the polar pattern of a microphone? Could we design antenna to better pick up in front of and behind the antenna?
@@LetsFlyRC yeah shotgun and super cardioid polar patterns both have areas behind the mic where sound waves can be picked up but not an expert on microphones either
How do you feel bout the x-air2 mkii running 2 crosshairs off one antenna output? I still have the mk1’s but bought a 50ohm splitter and was going to rig em up like the mk2’s. Just never got around to it.
I don’t think you will gain any usable range for proximity. The x2air changes the width of the beam horizontally and vertically. So, you lose db one axis to gain more in the other axis.
I think you make a good point about pilots flying out in front most of the time and the signal usually being good enough for some flying behind but I do think the signal is better in front no matter what you run and have had a visual observer spin me around for some flights and think that improved the signal. See my PM on discord for what I think would be a good project for a RotorRiot video. Not necessarily something that would be practical for every day use.
You proved your point, Shawn! I am wondering what Antenna setup I should use, I have a rapidfire with a Lumenier axii 2 (very long antenna) and a Triple feed patch. What would you recommend?
It has been a long time since I flew analog. It depends what your goals are. For FPV racing, for example, patches/crosshairs actually hurt your signal as another pilot flies in front of you, their video signal might overpower yours because of a bunch of pilots in close proximity of each other. For FPV drone racing, I would recommend all onmis. But I would think the same concept would apply. If I went back to analog, today, after what I have learned, for fpv freestyle, I would probably run dual x-air true rc crosshair antennas, positioned about 30 degrees left and right of each other.
Unfortunately, it is hanging on the wall, and I haven’t looked at it, since. I keep meaning to go back and tune it, but, too many projects, too little time. :(
Yep. I've gone to all patch 99% of the time. Way further out front, and enough behind. I also find value in facing away from WiFi so it has less interference.
I may revisit this later. I spent 12 hours filming and editing this video, and needed to get it out quickly to respond to Bardwell’s video. The main purpose of the video was to show that the crosshairs are perfectly sufficient beside and behind you for what I do.
I have always been honest. I am still flying WalkSnail, because it beats DJI in every scenario I have flown it, in penetration and range, with my antenna setup on both systems. You need to upgrade the drone antenna, too. The walksnail antennas are trash.
@@LetsFlyRC i did not mean to imply you havent been in the past. Bad choice of phrasing! Thank you for your reply, think i might switch for the new season.. Keep up the good work mate, always good to see your Videos!
I have to reply to this comment as times have changed. With the new o3 air unit, backwards compatibility, and new software, this statement may not be true, anymore. Need to do further testing
"....these stubby antennas do not poke up high above our FAT WATER-FILLED HEADS!" HEY! HEY!!!!! [whisper] How did you know my head is fat? [/whisper] lol Great vid! 🙏
I dont know if this relates to the discussion that you and bardwell have, but i think the cheapest Googles on the Market are best entry into fpv. The betafpv goggles v2 have just one 14dbi patch antenna and no diversity but great range in Front and back penetration just the sides Are a bit Weak. Because of the mirror Design and no external antenna are really compact. beause of just one antenna without diverity Module dirt cheap. love it more than the fiddly analog module on the goggles v2.
I haven’t tried those goggles, but, I typically stay away from goggles where you can’t change the antenna. I understand why people choose them, though, because they are much more affordable. :)
@@LetsFlyRC you are absolutely right no one in the right mind is going to use These with a 5 inch. But for someone who is not sure if this Hobby is something for her/him it is a great purchase i think. A happymodel mobular 7 400mv elrs + literadio 3 + betafpv vr02. Is a great bnf bundle in my opinion. epecially if you take into Account that once you are hooked by the fpv addiction your probably going to end up with a Digital System anyway. This way you have only spend 50 bucks for your first goggles and are able to invest in the fatshark Dominator HD or dji goggles 2 and dont have to adapt Digital to a expensive analog goggle.
Why didn’t you do the same test with a set of omni’s? Your test was useless in proving your point on how directional is better for proximity flying, pretty sure you would of gotten the same results. 😂
I was in a hurry, and had limited time. I may go back and revisit this. But, I wanted to respond to Bardwell’s video quickly, before the information was forgotten about, and this video took me over 12 hours to film and edit, as-is. My point was to show that crosshair rear and sideways range was useful, and even impressive, because I feel like Bardwell’s video tells you it isn’t usable, based on his thumbnail, which boldly says “this is wrong”…
i drive fast cars. they start by inserting a key and turning it. the gas engine fires up. it's a v6. the car is blue. people like to drive cars. i'm not a car expert but it goes fast. i've tried a lot. just wanted to share with you. blue cars are the fastest.
I’ve flown that antenna - it’s baller. Preach! Love directionals. Not patches, but true directional antennas. Thanks a bunch for this big dawg! Antenna theory is one of the most important aspect of FPV that’s ALWAYS overlooked.
ThanQs Phantom for the reinforcing reply. :)
@@LetsFlyRC 👊👊🦄🦄
Awesome video! Need to try this! Where can we download the face plate model?
Anxiously awaiting that sweet all in one antenna cover to become available :) even if it did degrade 'behind me' performance I typically don't fly far behind me at all, so no big deal. I love the idea of having it all together like that.
I like the idea of direct soldering, looking forward for info on this. Thanks for your time and dedication. More please
Dude real life experience beats data all day. Thanks for showing us your experience and for that I'm greatful 🙏🏻
ThanQs Clare
Back when I flew analog with two patches I was always amazed at how far behind myself I could fly.
Yes. And crosshairs are even better. ThanQs for the confirming comment. :)
I ran double pepper box on 1.3 fpv and could land one mile out
You're ONLY as good as your best CLICKBAIT, that's what I always say 😃 Making generalized blanket statements is one of my favorite things to do as well!
Yo, where’s the mounting plate?
Can confirm, done this on my EV200Ds, even running two on my EV300Os, one up high on an extension.
Sorry that it seems like my video was taken as a direct shot at you. It wasn't meant that way. My point is that directional antennas have reduced coverage to the side and back, and that should be taken into account when you decide whether to use them. Your argument is that you get enough range and penetration from your directional antennas for the places you fly. So we are really in agreement there. I have personally experienced sitting in a courtyard of an office park and flying all around myself, and being annoyed that my ImmersionRC LZR patch array gave such bad coverage behind me that I noticed the reduction in range compared to the previous time I flew there with omnis. It just depends on the situation.
If we look at the specs for the X-Air Mk2, they list the "flight beam" as 120 degrees. That's the width of the beam where the X-Air has higher gain than a 2 dBi omni. Even if we assume that the fleshy head is 100% blocking the signal to the rear, that's still at least 60 degrees of arc where the omni is providing higher gain than the X-Air. Maybe somebody cares about that 60 degrees and maybe they don't.
I also don't 100% agree with the conclusion of the "fleshy head" argument--that adding omnis doesn't provide any advantage because the head blocks their coverage. Let's assume that the person's head is absorbing some amount of signal to the rear. The omni has 2 dBi of gain all around; compare that to the -5 to -15 dB of gain that the X-Air has in the rear 180 degrees of its coverage. Because the head blocks signal to both the omni and the X-Air equally, the omni still provides better coverage to the rear.
Thanks for the reply and for the watch.
I have flown both ways, (with and without omnis) and saw so much improvement in the spots I fly, I switched to all crosshairs a long time ago, and never went back.
I hope you give the x-airs a fair shot and actually try to fly with them, at the very least, in front of you. I think you will see the WalkSnail system differently if you do.
Those antennas were the turning point that made me actually want to fly the WalkSnail system.
When we ran singularities paired with xairs in the RotorRiot episode, it was not as good as when I flew 4 crosshairs. Even in the episode, I was facing forward (the wrong direction) and flying through the building to my left along the street. 90 degrees.
Bubby wasn’t able to go as far with his mixed setup
ua-cam.com/video/kVxeiE3-azA/v-deo.html
@29:00
The main problem I had with your video, is the thumbnail, and the way your video was laid out, it made people think that you couldn’t fly beside or behind yourself if you used crosshair antennas. And, I wanted to show people, in this video, that it can be done, impressively. Going through 3 buildings, trees, a truck and my head, is a LOT of usable range and penetration.
One more important detail to note, is when I fly 4 crosshairs, they aren’t all facing straight forward. I generally have them approximately 30 degrees off angle from each other, widening the coverage width.
Hi, may we ask for some review/howto for this 3d print? Looks interesting 👍
What a tough video to make. Great job.
When can we get this faceplate?
No when these are going to be available yet?
I put the files on my thingiverse. Thingiverse.com/letsflyrc
Keep up the good work Shawn! Love your vids
ThanQs Bill
Really looking forward to be able to purchase this face plate. Or maybe print it ? I doubt it anyway.
Just installed this myself! It looks amazeballs but having some trouble with the range. Does it matter what orientation the trueX antennas are mounted? Iwe got them all with the writing horisontal. Went behind 1 small building 40 meters away and it dropped to 5mbit instantly. Btw, I was facing the drone while flying
I like your solution of making a box for the antennaes. The main reason i stick with stubbys is that they are easy to transport without having to take them off.
ThanQs. I agree the bulky crosshairs are a pain to transport, and bad for your connectors to keep removing them.
Thanks for the Ted talk!
ThanQs. This video is partially in response to another video by another UA-camr that recently released a video about these antennas.
What do you think is the best crosshair antenna for mid to longrange 5.8g and what antenna would pair well with it on my (analog) quad?
Good idea and when i was flying analog at the end the best combo for me was the 2 shield patch antena no more removing .... Could you please share to comunity the STL of the googles antenna plate it would be nice 😉.... HappyFlying .... ( i'm gona 3D scaning the original plate to redesigning it for 2 X-air , one on each side and at the end sharing it on Thingiverse ) ...
I promise so here is the link ... ua-cam.com/video/aNliQwnnLEQ/v-deo.html ....HappyFlying...🤩🤩🤩
Thank you for sharing this.
ThanQs Kyro. Hopefully it helps someone. :)
Great video dude! I need that antenna box! Haha any idea on when you will be selling it😊
I’m working on it. It is hard to say. Too many projects, not enough time. :)
@@LetsFlyRC nice dude! Yeah I know the feeling haha
thank you for this. I love flying proximity through thick trees. Maybe its time to try some crosshairs on my goggles.
Yesssss
I wonder if we could do the same as WiFi 7 it’s got free penetration at those 7mhz frequencies
If you weren't using Walksnail goggles but DJI v2s instead, how would you orient four Crosshairs on them to get the best performance?
I think it's time to switch from the iflight crystal patch antennas with the stubbies and run this set up in the video. I've noticed 0 improvement with range and penetration with the iflight. Good quick video. Appreciate it.
ThanQs Phonic.
Yes, my buddy, Furadi did a comparison test a long time ago.
I think this is the video:
ua-cam.com/video/2Y2DwNtzkd4/v-deo.html
@@LetsFlyRC Thanks for the link.
Hi, Thanks for your sharing. I'm new to fpv. So is the faceplate coming soon to be sell on thingverse for 3d printing, and I should buy 4 x air antenna (x air vs x2 air which one better price/performance?) Then open my walksnail goggles and connect to the faceplate? Do you have the detail video guide for this? Thank you
The faceplate is available on thingiverse.com/letsflyrc. I haven’t done a detail video yet. If I have time, I will
Thanks for reply.
In this video, you using 4 pcs of Truerc X Air? or using X2 Air ? I going to shopping, but still wondering between x air or x2 air, dont know which one best value
Would LOVE to see this applied to my Walksnail VRX I should be getting in the next few weeks
Yes. Unfortunately, I don’t think you can change the default antennas on the vrx. I worry they will be low quality built in patches, similar to their stock antennas that came with their goggles. :(
@@LetsFlyRC if the internals have a solder pad…. I will accept that challenge!
@@robaxelsson530 they might actually have ufl connections on the inside.
It would be cool to see a nice 3d printed shell that could house 4 truerc x-airs
Stupid question, but wouldn't 4X of the X²Air MkII give you even better penetration?
I thought the same about omni's. What good can they do behind you if your melon is in the way LOL Dig the faceplate design!
ThanQs Gardo
100% this. I get the best results with with my x-air / x-air2.
Yessss. ThanQs Robert for the reinforcing reply.
Great video, can you do a video like this but with 4 omni antennas and then but it side by side? I might try 4 patches now lol i didn't expect it to be that good
Hopefully, I can find the time. I always planned to do this, but, it is extremely time consuming. A lot of people have been asking for it, so I will try to make it happen. :)
I’m fairly new to the hobby and rc in general but would the pick up patter of an antenna be similar to the polar pattern of a microphone? Could we design antenna to better pick up in front of and behind the antenna?
I’m not 100% sure, bit, possibly.
The science might not be 100% transferable.
I assume you are talking about a shotgun microphone.
@@LetsFlyRC yeah shotgun and super cardioid polar patterns both have areas behind the mic where sound waves can be picked up but not an expert on microphones either
I get that range on DJI V1 with stock antennas.......
How do you feel bout the x-air2 mkii running 2 crosshairs off one antenna output? I still have the mk1’s but bought a 50ohm splitter and was going to rig em up like the mk2’s. Just never got around to it.
I don’t think you will gain any usable range for proximity.
The x2air changes the width of the beam horizontally and vertically.
So, you lose db one axis to gain more in the other axis.
I think you make a good point about pilots flying out in front most of the time and the signal usually being good enough for some flying behind but I do think the signal is better in front no matter what you run and have had a visual observer spin me around for some flights and think that improved the signal. See my PM on discord for what I think would be a good project for a RotorRiot video. Not necessarily something that would be practical for every day use.
ThanQs Tom
Do you think the benefit came mostly from the cross hair or from the direct link to the antenna that you applied ?
I had similar results without the mod. That is what made me go through with the mod
I hope they release that mask soon, also for the goggle X
You proved your point, Shawn! I am wondering what Antenna setup I should use, I have a rapidfire with a Lumenier axii 2 (very long antenna) and a Triple feed patch. What would you recommend?
It has been a long time since I flew analog.
It depends what your goals are.
For FPV racing, for example, patches/crosshairs actually hurt your signal as another pilot flies in front of you, their video signal might overpower yours because of a bunch of pilots in close proximity of each other.
For FPV drone racing, I would recommend all onmis.
But I would think the same concept would apply.
If I went back to analog, today, after what I have learned, for fpv freestyle, I would probably run dual x-air true rc crosshair antennas, positioned about 30 degrees left and right of each other.
@@LetsFlyRC Ok, thank you very much! :)
Do cross hairs work on analog ?
Yes. The transmission frequency range is the same, so the benefits should be directly transferable.
Did you ever get your skyhunter mini vtol flying well?
Unfortunately, it is hanging on the wall, and I haven’t looked at it, since. I keep meaning to go back and tune it, but, too many projects, too little time. :(
Yep. I've gone to all patch 99% of the time. Way further out front, and enough behind. I also find value in facing away from WiFi so it has less interference.
My "patch" are x-air mk ii. They are great.
@@breakflight Awesome antennas
Hmmm, he sounds like he knows what he talks about, 👍
ThanQs Oddeman
It would have made more sense comparing with the Omni’s.
In theory they’d do poorly behind you as well. But how much, I’d be curious.
I may revisit this later. I spent 12 hours filming and editing this video, and needed to get it out quickly to respond to Bardwell’s video.
The main purpose of the video was to show that the crosshairs are perfectly sufficient beside and behind you for what I do.
What's your honest Feedback on Walksnail vs DJI?
I have always been honest. I am still flying WalkSnail, because it beats DJI in every scenario I have flown it, in penetration and range, with my antenna setup on both systems. You need to upgrade the drone antenna, too. The walksnail antennas are trash.
@@LetsFlyRC i did not mean to imply you havent been in the past. Bad choice of phrasing! Thank you for your reply, think i might switch for the new season.. Keep up the good work mate, always good to see your Videos!
ThanQs Daniel
@@LetsFlyRC what antennas are you using on the. VTX Side?
I have to reply to this comment as times have changed. With the new o3 air unit, backwards compatibility, and new software, this statement may not be true, anymore. Need to do further testing
I have cross hairs on my rifle :-). But i fly Getto equip. though.
Jefffffffff
"....these stubby antennas do not poke up high above our FAT WATER-FILLED HEADS!"
HEY! HEY!!!!!
[whisper] How did you know my head is fat? [/whisper]
lol
Great vid! 🙏
Lol. ThanQs
Shut up and take my money!
I dont know if this relates to the discussion that you and bardwell have, but i think the cheapest Googles on the Market are best entry into fpv. The betafpv goggles v2 have just one 14dbi patch antenna and no diversity but great range in Front and back penetration just the sides Are a bit Weak. Because of the mirror Design and no external antenna are really compact. beause of just one antenna without diverity Module dirt cheap. love it more than the fiddly analog module on the goggles v2.
I haven’t tried those goggles, but, I typically stay away from goggles where you can’t change the antenna. I understand why people choose them, though, because they are much more affordable. :)
@@LetsFlyRC you are absolutely right no one in the right mind is going to use These with a 5 inch. But for someone who is not sure if this Hobby is something for her/him it is a great purchase i think. A happymodel mobular 7 400mv elrs + literadio 3 + betafpv vr02. Is a great bnf bundle in my opinion. epecially if you take into Account that once you are hooked by the fpv addiction your probably going to end up with a Digital System anyway. This way you have only spend 50 bucks for your first goggles and are able to invest in the fatshark Dominator HD or dji goggles 2 and dont have to adapt Digital to a expensive analog goggle.
@@FlyingBeeFPV ^^^^** yup
Why didn’t you do the same test with a set of omni’s? Your test was useless in proving your point on how directional is better for proximity flying, pretty sure you would of gotten the same results. 😂
I was in a hurry, and had limited time. I may go back and revisit this. But, I wanted to respond to Bardwell’s video quickly, before the information was forgotten about, and this video took me over 12 hours to film and edit, as-is.
My point was to show that crosshair rear and sideways range was useful, and even impressive, because I feel like Bardwell’s video tells you it isn’t usable, based on his thumbnail, which boldly says “this is wrong”…
i drive fast cars. they start by inserting a key and turning it. the gas engine fires up. it's a v6. the car is blue. people like to drive cars. i'm not a car expert but it goes fast. i've tried a lot. just wanted to share with you. blue cars are the fastest.
Best comment. You win the day. 🥇. 😂
Red cars aren’t as fast, because people have to drive them slow so they don’t get a ticket. 😂
@@LetsFlyRC LOL this is facts