Sony BVM A-Series and the BKM-68x - Pt2
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- UPDATE: The card has been reverse-engineered!!! No more need to hunt down this expensive, buggy one! More info here: • BKM-68x Homebrew Card
This is a follow-up video to a previous video, showing the VCR Mode / AFC issue with the BKM-68x RGB input card: • Sony BVM A-Series and ...
At this point, there's not much more NTSC testing I can do. I still need to test PAL consoles and I forgot to try component video. Unless someone finds a way to either enable AFC, it looks like the only good solution for now is gscartsw v3.4 to Extron 580xi. Here's the main page with all the info: retrorgb.com/bk...
If you liked this video, please consider supporting in any way: www.retrorgb.c...
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UPDATE: The card has been reverse-engineered!!! No more need to hunt down this expensive, buggy one! More info here: ua-cam.com/video/6fBE2i7pqJ8/v-deo.html
I just got a BVM-A14F5M without the BKM-68x and I would love to have an option to use RBG, without paying $$$ for the BKM-68x. Thanks for great content!
This is probably never going to be relevant to me, but thanks for providing this for those who it will matter for!
LOL, yeah, I realize there's probably only about 20 people in the world who this is relevant to, but it's an intriguing problem that I really wanted to tackle.
Keep up the great work! for the sake of so much RGB happiness!!!!
Nice spaceballs reference
I'm happy someone got that :)
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/79/81/83/7981836104285feabb41d3a9b6066b88.jpg
This issue still plagues people. My D14 sees this issue on multiple consoles and (worst of all) a pi2scart. I haven't found out if the drivers are even written to support h sync pulses during vertical blank.
It seems that the only reasonable solution is still to get an extron box that cleans up h sync. I can confirm that the RGB 192 (with ADSP) does not clean up the sync signal, but it can convert from HV to combined. The VSC500 is an attractive option, but I can't find many confirmations that it does fix this issue.
I have a A24E1WU with the BKM-68X and I am having no issue with it. Granted I have no plans to play Master System, but all my other consoles are amazing on it.
You're terribly lucky! I've got the A20F1M, and I'm just rocking the 61D S-Video currently, perfectly fine, but I'd love to get a hold of the 68x one day. How did you cmoe across yours? :)
hi bob, i have the bkm 68-x and i was wondering how to connect rgb and component at the same time so i dont have to plug and unpluge the cables every time that i need to play on component or rgb.
Hey Bob. With your eagle eyes, can you see the difference between BVM and PVM using RGB?
PVM are the most reliable video device I've ever seen. They can practically sync on a shoe string! BVM seem to be very finicky.
@Leon - Assuming both are in decent condition, yes, I can immediately tell the difference. BVM's ARE very finicky though; PVM's were built as workhorses, will accept a wide variety of signals and still look AMAZING. BVM's were "precision instruments" that require a lot more upkeep, but were designed to get every tiny bit of detail on the screen. Seeing my PVM (in excellent condition) and BVM (in good-to-excellent) condition side-by-side was pretty impressive though. The PVM didn't look "bad" at all, but the BVM was the clear winner.
@Daithi - The tube in the D20F1U and the 20L5 are the exact same. It's the precision tweaking of the circuitry inside the BVM that allows for such a quality increase. Pretty impressive, right?
alternative use for the BVM-A series of monitors:
the tubes are interchangeable with the D series. Got an old D tube showing it's age? You can replace it with an A-series!
That's EXACTLY why I'm holding on to my A-series. It has 2700 hours on the tube and the tube itself looks MINT. I figured I'll eventually stumble across a D-series with a worn-out tube. Then I'll swap em...but I'd still keep the A-Series!! Even with a worn tube, an A-Series running S-Video and Composite might still be worth holding on to!
c'mon Bob, you run a site called RetroRGB for a reason! You don't need s-video or composite! I don't really see any harm in "scrapping" a bvm-a to take that tube for a bvm-d.
Just don't tell the museums you did that.
Well, no need for anything to go to waste. I can think of a bunch of creative uses for some S-Video-only BVM's...
Do you have any way to do SD-SDI? I'm wondering if the relatively new 240p passthrough on the OSSC might work?
@adam zey - I tried that last time and couldn't get it working...but the issue might just be the SDi adapter I used. I'll have to find another one and try again. At the very least, Genesis in 480i (Sonic 2, 2-player) should work, but I couldn't get that working either.
Does anyone know of an RGB to SDi adapter that isn't made by Extron (the brand I tried last time) that I could try?
HI I have just bought a Sony BVM A20F1M and all I want to use is Component (YPBPR) on it for wii and gamecube 480p games What analog card will work on the Sony BVM A20F1M for Component? Component to SDI won't work in 480p so I need a BKM 20D or 21D but I don't know if these cards will work on a Sony BVM A20F1M let me know what you know I hope that a BKM-68x isn't the only way to do Component 480p on a Sony BVM A20F1M
A BKM-68x is literally the only way. You MIGHT be able to find a converter that lets you use 480i component via SDi, but I've heard compatibility is spotty.
Oscar: Have you tried upscaling component 480p to 720p via an HDMI upscaler and then using HDMI to HD-SDI converter like the ones from Blackmagic? If your upscaler can full screen a 720p output signal (to get rid of 16:9 mode) then that should be the next best thing if you can't get hold of a BKM-68X. I assume you already have the very common BKM-62HS input card installed with SDI/HD-SDI ports.
Do you think an Extron SCS 300 or USP 405/507 might help with some of these sync issues at all?
Still no solution for 68x owners?
Very cool content and website! I run www.RetroPCGamers.com myself so it was great to see you put this together for Retro RGB!
Hi Bob not sure if you have sorted the problem yet, but when you browse the menu's on the BVM-A it mentions horizontal slicing so you may be able to alter that to help the image
The issue is that there aren't any hsync pulses during vblank?
Seems like that would be easy to fix with a little logic board inside the Genesis. You just need to recreate csync using the Genesis oscillator/clock, probably could be done with a small CPLD or some discrete logic ICs. While I wouldn't install a board just for this, maybe it could be integrated into a future RGB amp/bypass board.
I think the perfect device for 68x owners would be a SCART to BNC box that includes a hsync "cleaner". Seems like a lot of work for such a small qty of people. The best solution overall would be a SCART to SDi converter that supports 240p!
I have an SDI input on my PVM 20m4u, would that work for testing such a device?
Yeah, perfect!
The SDI/480i "problem" do we even know if the protocol is capable of decoding the input into 240p ?
I've not found a document anywhere that suggests that they bothered "going that low" in the spec
Unless perhaps someone found a modified "modeline" that was compatible (a bit like the superwide 120hz 240p modes)
Bit I have a feeling most decoders would just refuse the signal if it was even slightly out of spec.....
@h1ghju1ce - I think you might be correct - SDi is a much more strict signal type then RGBs and anything slightly out of spec might not register. CRT's are "tricked" into supporting 240p, thinking it's 480i (BVM's will show '480i' on the OSD when a 240p signal is sent). Maybe it's possible to "trick" SDi in the same way?
I have a BVM-A20F1U without the BKM-68x, I'v been using the s-video connection through the BKM-61D card instead, and the result is beautiful!
Still, I've been curious about the SD-SDI input on this card. Inexpensive analog RGB/Component to SDI converters are pretty easy to find (AJA D10AD, for example). However, since SDI doesn't accept 240p, would there be a upscaler or line doubler that could convert this signal to something (480p?) SD-SDI could digest?
So, it'd go like this: Console 240p output (scart or component) -> mystery upscaler -> analog to sdi converter -> BKM-61D.
Could you go Console 240p > OSSC > HDMI to SDI converter > BKM-61D?
@@mynam3isnathan Yes, that'd probably work, but only through HD-SDI of the BKM-62HS card and it'd result in a 16:9 screen ratio (I guess, similar to connecting your console through a retrotink2x on a hdtv).
I'd like to find a way to make it work through SD-SDI but I can't figure out how to convert the 240p signal to 480i (since it appears to be the only signal it'd take). I don't even know if it'd be worth it, you'd get RGB, but then you'd have an interlaced signal and potential lag because of the conversion...
@@jonathanlavigne2018 Can the OSSC just passthrough and digitize the 240p signal so you stay within the SD-SDI spec?
Just notice this post on the Shumps forum:
shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1258689#p1258689
and I replied with a referenced to this video, seems he solved his "top kink" with an XRGB2 unit , because it has an "AFC" mode/setting on it (the XRGB3 has as well)
looking at the XRGB2 wiki - it suggests the PC Engine and the NeoGeo have the higher level of AFC applied
(5-7)
junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=XRGB-2_plus#Recommended_settings
Although interestingly , it seems to suggest that the master system doesnt need any AFC adjustments
and then fudoh even mentions a similar thing on his XRGB Mini review:
retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html
My model 2 saturn unit showed a little bend on top of the picture.
MVS was basically impossible to use with the XRGB-3's B1 mode and everyone who has used a XRGB-3 knows of the infamous AFC setting which could be used to cure bending on the top of the picture.
So basically, do you have a XRGB2 or 3 around to re-test this issue? :)
No, but a friend might have one I can borrow. This might be a dumb question, but can the XRGB2 be used as a passthough (utilizing it's AFC), or must it upscale?
www.slideshare.net/devashishraval/television-receiver
Slide 24 - 26 explains it in a way I can understand(ish!)
I suspect it may well be possible to build a small board with this chip (or one like it)
to create your own AFC levels
www.nteinc.com/specs/1700to1799/pdf/nte1739.pdf
"Horizontal AFC is
performed by comparing the horizontal ramp input signal on Pin2, derived from the flyback pulse, to
the horizontal sync signal on Pin3, producing correction voltage. The correction voltage then is applied
to the master oscillator to phase lock the system"
NeoGeo AES and GroovyMame have the same issue
Can you see any noticeable difference between A and D series?
How do you connect s video?
You need a different input card and an S-Video to BNC adapter.
RetroRGB I have an adapter just not sure which card? You mean the x68?
No, it's the Sony BKM-61D. You can usually get them from Pat for about $150, or you might get lucky and find them on eBay.
RetroRGB Wait I have that card! Which Input does the bnc/svideo go into? None say s-video. Only y composite. I've tried both using the yellow rca video and s-video in the y input and they both look the same... It looks blurry.
S-Video is Y/C: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video
You just need this cable: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408193-REG
...and make sure to put 750 ohm BNC connectors on the output, just like with composite and RGB.