My experience of the Ridhwan school is that the organization does its best to support open-ended inquiry. Like any organization, there will be rigidity. For example, if you have a lot of material to teach, you have to organize the material into a certain sequence, and that will not suit every student at every moment. But they seem to do a good job of teaching to the "center", that is, what most students in a group seem to need. That gap between the curriculum and the needs of a student at a particular time is addressed, and students are welcome to explore those gaps with their teachers individually. This can be fruitful since sometimes this opens us up to deeper exploration of what we really need. But in a large group setting, there are times when the needs of an individual might be temporarily put on hold so that the needs of the larger group can be addressed, or so that the material being taught can be completed. People may well feel that more openness is required for spiritual teaching, but I see the Ridhwan School as one end of a spectrum of valid approaches to the general problem of trying to teach spiritual development. Their approach to supporting teachers through fees is also valid, in my book. Firstly because the organization is not entirely rigid in this regard. I've seen many students with financial difficulties attend teachings through scholarship funds. I've also seen students whose financial difficulties became an important point of inquiry in their development, which aided them in resolving said difficulties. Yes, there are cheaper options out there, but given the years of training that Ridhwan teachers have undertaken, and the massive time commitment they generally make to their students, it only seems natural that Ridhwan teachers will charge. Some people prefer that spiritual teachings are free. They should keep in mind that Ridhwan school is a essentially a "householder" tradition, and teachers are often putting their kids through school, paying off a home, saving for retirement, just like the rest of us. I've seen Advaita teachers practically starve themselves and their families because of their principle of not charging, and I don't see that as morally superior. Shirking your responsibility to provide for your dependents is a pretty big moral issue! (And by the way, just because your Advaita teacher doesn't charge, that doesn't mean you shouldn't donate!) Well, those are my thoughts on the matter. Full disclosure: I am a former Ridhwan student who has had no association with the school in about a decade. I participated in group work for about two years, and continued work privately with a teacher from time to time for another three years. No contact since, but when the mood strikes I still pick up Hameed's books, and value them for their insights.
I love what Karen says at around 08:00 - 10:00. She talks about how she and Hameed would listen to each others' criticisms and trust that there was truth in what the other said. It is so important to honor the view of the other person, sincerely consider it and trust that there's some truth and value in what they're saying about us. This reveals our own blind spots about our self, loosens the grip of identity, attachments and expectations, and brings more peace to our self and our relationships.
One thing that this video demonstrates clearly . . . is how the process of Karen and Hameed's personal self-realization was significantly different than the rigid, inflexible, and institutionalized process that is taught in the Ridhwan School.
I was wondering while listening to this, that it's all very nice to talk about two hearts beating as one, or self realisation and/or incredible connections but with these four people there is no mention of the people they hurt in their lives. What about Renate's first husband? Was he just dismissed as a nothing just because there was this 'amazing' connection? Did his feelings matter? Why was he not talked about? What about Almaas and Karen, both married to other people, there was no mention of how they coped with their sexuality and attraction toward each other, if and when that occurred. It becomes an incredibly difficult situation when two people work together so closely that the relationship does not remain platonic in many cases. There was no mention of any pain that either of them put their partners/wife/husband through? Did they have strong sexual feelings toward each other? How did they cope with them? Did they act on them? Do their respective partners know and have they been treated with respect? A little more honesty about your relationships wouldn't go amiss rather than basking in the 'all is connected because we're all waves on the ocean' holy ideas. Yes, we're all connected but reality is such that there are other people in your lives that you do not speak of and how they coped with your betrayals.
Yes I was thinking the same. They felt it was a positive experience for them but does that overshadow the pain caused to the innocent left behind. I have never been in that position but think that it would be extremely difficult for me to come to terms. with. Perhaps they found a way unbeknownst to someone like myself. I am not judging but am genuinely interested in how they resolved this in their own hearts. I do understand that growth probably comes with pain but I would not want to cause it personally but maybe that is just a weakness on my behalf.
Great video! I am going to see if Karen has any books. I was already familiar and like Almaas' work. I watche dthe video more to see him, but I felt I related more to what Karen said. I like how she talked a lot about going within
I love this. Thank you! I have been inquirying my whole adult life how the truth of aloneness or oneness can 'fit' with deep, true connection -- and I am still asking, exploring. One important early inspiration was 'I and Thou' by Martin Buber, where he describes the dual unity of an I-Thou relationship, so different in experience from an I-It relationship, where the 'other' becomes a separate object. How can we be One, and yet two, deeply relating? Thank you for the inspiration! Kåre L, Norway
Apparently in the early days after five years of teacher training you were sent out on your own, to do your own thing. A few years later everybody was called back and things became 'organised'. It is important for me to hear your story because i thought i was crazy and that it was just me seeing all that stuff.
Yes! These guys make loads of money and run a tight ship. Maturity is central to the Diamond Approach. Some of the most immature people i have met belong to the school. The school does deliver in terms of the mystical experience. You will have all kinds of experiences.
Better explain for YT viewers who don't know: Ridhwan is incorporated as a religion & teachers are "ordained" as ministers. They are given franchises to teach, charge students for private consultations (going rate: $120 an hour), & kickback a percent to Hameed. It's a big money making operation. There are severe conflicts of interest (teachers make money from students regardless of benefit) & usual narcisisstic group dynamics: self-importance, identifying with group status, condescension, etc
The rigid and inflexible business starts at the top of the organisation. :) The school has a hierarchy, so in 'essence' it is bound to have power games. You will never come into your own thing if you remain trapped in a mystery school. Spiritual groups are for vampires. :)
My experience of the Ridhwan school is that the organization does its best to support open-ended inquiry. Like any organization, there will be rigidity. For example, if you have a lot of material to teach, you have to organize the material into a certain sequence, and that will not suit every student at every moment. But they seem to do a good job of teaching to the "center", that is, what most students in a group seem to need. That gap between the curriculum and the needs of a student at a particular time is addressed, and students are welcome to explore those gaps with their teachers individually. This can be fruitful since sometimes this opens us up to deeper exploration of what we really need. But in a large group setting, there are times when the needs of an individual might be temporarily put on hold so that the needs of the larger group can be addressed, or so that the material being taught can be completed. People may well feel that more openness is required for spiritual teaching, but I see the Ridhwan School as one end of a spectrum of valid approaches to the general problem of trying to teach spiritual development.
Their approach to supporting teachers through fees is also valid, in my book. Firstly because the organization is not entirely rigid in this regard. I've seen many students with financial difficulties attend teachings through scholarship funds. I've also seen students whose financial difficulties became an important point of inquiry in their development, which aided them in resolving said difficulties. Yes, there are cheaper options out there, but given the years of training that Ridhwan teachers have undertaken, and the massive time commitment they generally make to their students, it only seems natural that Ridhwan teachers will charge. Some people prefer that spiritual teachings are free. They should keep in mind that Ridhwan school is a essentially a "householder" tradition, and teachers are often putting their kids through school, paying off a home, saving for retirement, just like the rest of us. I've seen Advaita teachers practically starve themselves and their families because of their principle of not charging, and I don't see that as morally superior. Shirking your responsibility to provide for your dependents is a pretty big moral issue! (And by the way, just because your Advaita teacher doesn't charge, that doesn't mean you shouldn't donate!)
Well, those are my thoughts on the matter. Full disclosure: I am a former Ridhwan student who has had no association with the school in about a decade. I participated in group work for about two years, and continued work privately with a teacher from time to time for another three years. No contact since, but when the mood strikes I still pick up Hameed's books, and value them for their insights.
I love what Karen says at around 08:00 - 10:00. She talks about how she and Hameed would listen to each others' criticisms and trust that there was truth in what the other said. It is so important to honor the view of the other person, sincerely consider it and trust that there's some truth and value in what they're saying about us. This reveals our own blind spots about our self, loosens the grip of identity, attachments and expectations, and brings more peace to our self and our relationships.
So much beauty and delight ! Guau ! Thank you so much for sharing these pearls & diamonds to our Planet. We really need it !!!! :-)
One thing that this video demonstrates clearly . . . is how the process of Karen and Hameed's personal self-realization was significantly different than the rigid, inflexible, and institutionalized process that is taught in the Ridhwan School.
I was wondering while listening to this, that it's all very nice to talk about two hearts beating as one, or self realisation and/or incredible connections but with these four people there is no mention of the people they hurt in their lives. What about Renate's first husband? Was he just dismissed as a nothing just because there was this 'amazing' connection? Did his feelings matter? Why was he not talked about? What about Almaas and Karen, both married to other people, there was no mention of how they coped with their sexuality and attraction toward each other, if and when that occurred. It becomes an incredibly difficult situation when two people work together so closely that the relationship does not remain platonic in many cases. There was no mention of any pain that either of them put their partners/wife/husband through? Did they have strong sexual feelings toward each other? How did they cope with them? Did they act on them? Do their respective partners know and have they been treated with respect? A little more honesty about your relationships wouldn't go amiss rather than basking in the 'all is connected because we're all waves on the ocean' holy ideas. Yes, we're all connected but reality is such that there are other people in your lives that you do not speak of and how they coped with your betrayals.
Yes I was thinking the same. They felt it was a positive experience for them but does that overshadow the pain caused to the innocent left behind. I have never been in that position but think that it would be extremely difficult for me to come to terms. with. Perhaps they found a way unbeknownst to someone like myself. I am not judging but am genuinely interested in how they resolved this in their own hearts. I do understand that growth probably comes with pain but I would not want to cause it personally but maybe that is just a weakness on my behalf.
agreed
The transcript of this interview is available to view here.
www.conscious.tv/text/85.htm
Great video! I am going to see if Karen has any books. I was already familiar and like Almaas' work. I watche dthe video more to see him, but I felt I related more to what Karen said. I like how she talked a lot about going within
I love this. Thank you! I have been inquirying my whole adult life how the truth of aloneness or oneness can 'fit' with deep, true connection -- and I am still asking, exploring. One important early inspiration was 'I and Thou' by Martin Buber, where he describes the dual unity of an I-Thou relationship, so different in experience from an I-It relationship, where the 'other' becomes a separate object. How can we be One, and yet two, deeply relating? Thank you for the inspiration! Kåre L, Norway
thank you so much from the heart
Apparently in the early days after five years of teacher training you were sent out on your own, to do your own thing. A few years later everybody was called back and things became 'organised'.
It is important for me to hear your story because i thought i was crazy and that it was just me seeing all that stuff.
Fantastic couples...evolving together as twin one flame!
Yes! These guys make loads of money and run a tight ship.
Maturity is central to the Diamond Approach. Some of the most immature people i have met belong to the school. The school does deliver in terms of the mystical experience. You will have all kinds of experiences.
Karen Johnson and Hameed Ali (Almaas) are going to publish a new book. Release september 2013
I especially loved the section at about 40 minutes in where Karen speaks about the paradox of Unity and Particularity ...
Better explain for YT viewers who don't know:
Ridhwan is incorporated as a religion & teachers are "ordained" as ministers. They are given franchises to teach, charge students for private consultations (going rate: $120 an hour), & kickback a percent to Hameed. It's a big money making operation.
There are severe conflicts of interest (teachers make money from students regardless of benefit) & usual narcisisstic group dynamics: self-importance, identifying with group status, condescension, etc
The rigid and inflexible business starts at the top of the organisation. :)
The school has a hierarchy, so in 'essence' it is bound to have power games.
You will never come into your own thing if you remain trapped in a mystery school. Spiritual groups are for vampires. :)
Why arent the 2 teachers married?
Julie Meibaum They talk about the nature of their relationship in this interview. Start at 26:00. ua-cam.com/video/h1zQ0q5Gik0/v-deo.html