Balancing the Massive tires on an LMTV
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- I'm going to start off with a quick note, there is a very limited likelihood that anyone will be able to "perfectly" balance a set of LMTV tires on LMTV steel wheels. I know you want the perfect cure all, and so do I. So if you have done something that works (not "my buddy said" but actually did it yourself and it works) please get in touch with me. Anyway, in this video I will try my best to show you what I did to get at least a modestly comfortable ride out of the old truck.
Information about Wheels and Tires can be found in TM 9-2320-365-20-3 Chapter 12
There are a couple of things you can do to improve your chances of having a balanced set of tires.
1. Make sure your rims are round and straight
I know this isn't something most people think of but most military steel rims of this size are not 100% round or straight, it is just life.
2. Balance the rim before putting the tire on
One thing I did not do but latter thought of trying, is to balance the rim with the CTIS system on the rim and bead lock wrapped around it (and aligned), before putting the tire on. At this stage the rim and CTIS are fairly light and can still be handled by one person. So even using a bubble wheel balancer should give you a better shot at getting a truly balanced tire. Or at lest give you a solid place to start from.
3. Balance beads
Yes, they work. do they solve all types of imbalance? NO you will still have an imbalance if the tire is out of round or the rim is not straight. But they do work. I'm starting to think this physics thing may actually have some merit... /end sarcasm
4. Tire weights
Tire weights seem to help. However ideally you would balance as much as possible with weight then finish off with balance beads. I jumped the gun on the balance beads as I was hoping they would be the miracle cure and I wouldn't need any weight what so ever. Once the beads are in. balancing with weight becomes a lot of road testing and trial and error.
5. Have patience
Farting around with these tires takes a lot of time. In the process of adding and balancing these tires I had them off the truck and apart 3 times and yes it sucked all three times. You always forget you have a spare, so it's really 5 times the fun.
Conclusion:
In my exact situation, my rims are probably not 100% straight. I do know they are round as I actually checked that. however my tires are not 100% perfect. Which is not a big deal at 55 but further you get outside of that +10% engineering margin, it becomes an issue.
This truck was designed to hit the highway at 55 MPH and top out at 60 MPH. It takes a lot of care and feeding (read that as cache) to get it to be comfortable with going 65. It can tick up over 75 but there is no way in Gods green earth I will be driving it at that speed. The Goodyear tires I'm running are rated to 68 MPH at 100PSI and loaded to 10,200 pounds per tire. The steel rims are rated to 85 PSI. When I supported some of the guys working on Goodyear R&D projects they would design to at least a +10% engineering margin to cover their ass in case of a materials flaw. So the Max theoretical speed one could run a new set of these tires is 74.8 MPH and I would expect them to blow up at some point right around there, if you where at full load, bla bla bla. Don't be stupid, 65 stay alive. :)
I'm running at 80 PSI and less than 6,000 pounds per tire so I have no issue with driving 65.
gov.goodyear.c...
Amazon affiliate links and just regular links to parts and tools.
10 packs of Counteract Tire Balancing Beads
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Tire CTIS wheel valve
mvpartstore.co...
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@Crustyonwheels
Another great video. Thank you again for posting these... PacificNorthWestLMTV
You can always put more beads in. Dont need to be that exact. Also when you have a vibration at a narrow speed it’s usually an alignment as the centrifugal force of wheels is taking over.
So, my buddy said that he watched this video and really liked your antics as well as the format.
I think he's right, but could use your cool intro. Very entertaining and informative!
I have a M1083A1 I looked at a lot of tire balance videos. I ended up having them put on a spin balancer. It is now smooth as silk. You could hardly stay in the seat prior to balancing. At any rate keep up the great videos.
May I ask where you found a company willing to spin balance your tires? I hadn’t had much luck going down that route. Most truck shops in my area didn’t want to put that much weight on their machines.
Broke OverLand certainly, Quality Tire in Salt Lake City, UT. My digital media guy did a vlog on it if you want to see it? Dead Air Silencers UA-cam. Vlog #1.
I’ll check it out
@@mikepappas6415I cannot find this
ua-cam.com/video/1GKJoS-jW3s/v-deo.htmlsi=jnNrbo-WzPj1XWfd
Thanks for going through that. I was waiting for this episode.
I have the same shimmy from 58-63. Now that the tires are worn down a bit it is not as noticeable.
Before you dump money into aluminum wheels talk to Seth. He has them and noticed no difference.
You can't make up for tire imperfections with weights on this big of a tire.
If you do end up still wanting the aluminum wheels Acela has quite a few and they do not use them on their trucks. Reach out to them and they will tell you why on the phone.
I don't want to see another s280 video lol.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the info on the aluminum rims. I’m probably done with the balancing attempts. Time to just run it. :)
@@BrokeOverLand That was my conclusion as well after doing extensive research. 58-63 is the wobble zone. We normally drive 57. Not a big deal, safer, less wear and tear on the truck. Remember that driving at a sustained speed with those vibrations will shake stuff loose that you don't want to be loose.
After close to 20k of mileage personally driven on our truck I would have to say that there really is no good reason to drive them that fast, they weren't designed for it. The main benefits to the high speed gears is keeping the motor rpms down so that the motor does not self destruct. The cab is a bit quieter and the driveshafts spin a bit slower.
Thanks for spending a tedious amount of time documenting and proven/disproving myths and rumors as well...
Great videos keep them coming. The reason for throwing the whole bag of beads in is so the glass beads don't get everywhere while moving the tire around before airing up
im a mech on the mh53e and this is basically how we balance. throw a little weight and let them fcf, they come back and make a weight adjustment, we add or take away weights. new sub though. i dont own a lmtv, just want one and want to see what yall do to get them going. best informative videos so far
you should make a plate that would bolt in the center of the wheel with a divot in the middle and a pointed cone just tall enough to hold the assembly off the floor for static balancing.
I totally should have done that before doing the balance beads.
Owning a LMTV and MTV I guess I have just been lucky with the tire balance issue. I don't have the high speed gears and my alignments seem to be good. Thanks for the info and video.
Once I got the bead locks aligned correctly, the balance beads in and some weight on the back. I have zero shake or vibration from the wheels.
@BrokeOverLand I drove my 1083 from Illinois to Nevada drove very well. It wasn't from GP so it had some maintenance a d TLC before the trip.
I've run beads first on my 1800 Vtwin cruiser because didn't want any unsightly weights on the nice chrome rims and the 280mm rear tire and 180mm front.
Then on 37's and then 38's on a Ram 2500 on 18in stock rims.
Maybe they just need more ounces.
I used a Ryobi vacuum to suck out beads and reuse to another set of tires.
That's awesome you have a lathe!
Good video, I like both the methodical approach and at the right time acceptance that "This is as good as it gets"
Also like the sack trolley for moving wheels, my take was a pallet truck, more cumbersome but height adjustable. The sack truck would be much more portable though 😊
You torquing the wheel. Hilarious
I had a similar problem with a set of 38's on a 78 blazer . found a local 4x4 shop here in East Tx that shaved my tires or if you will trued them up ! Worked great !! Although I hated to see the pile of rubber on the floor when he was done ...
After one year with balance beads and more weight on the truck. I’m sold on the balance beads.
We love your videos, we have the aluminum rims on Brutus, ours truck shakes also, as the tires have worn they are getting a little smoother. I saw the title of this video and was so excited that you may have found the secret to smooth, maybe we should try the beads also if it helps even a little, keep up the great work.
The evidence is really starting to point to the instability at those particular speeds being the tire itself. Wheels, beads, weights, and configuration of the whole assembly seem to increase or decrease the overall amount of vibration. However It seems to come down to imperfections in the tire.
The pirouette looking for lugnuts was so familiar. So was the toss at the trash can w/the smashed inflator fitting. Too familiar.
Also always wondered how sand or beads worked, thanks.
You might try experimenting with air pressures. Try going to higher pressures and check each tire with a gauge connected to the central air system.
I did go up to 80 psi. But Adding the weight of the habitat combined with the balance beads did the trick. The truck rides smooth now.
Put 28 ounces of beads in the tires. Run Centramatic balancers as well. The excess weight will find a neutral place. Done.
I looked into centeramatic. I wasn’t able to find one that would work with the CTIS and there isn’t enough space between the drum and rim to use the inner ring version. But the balance beads have been doing the trick.
@@BrokeOverLand ah, yeah I guess they would have to be a custom deal. Nice thing about the beads is the excess will find a neutral place to hang out. I have been using BBs to balance my large 4x4 tires for 20 years. Granted, they aren't as large as those, but it scales up easily. I don't think that little bit of wobble you have is that big a deal, to be honest. But you nailed it when you say that this isn't a fast vehicle, and there is only so much you're going to be able to do. Are these tires bias or radial construction?
They are radials. Side note: Once I added the weight of the box all vibration has gone away. The tires run smooth now.
been doing this for a long time beads do not work (all the time ) each time you restart rotation of the wheel it or they rebalance the wheel (this is a good idea if everything perfectly smooth)if you look on the inside of your tire you'll notice there are imperfections that would hold the beads does not mean that it is in balance .these vehicles were not designed to go over 45 miles an hour as a normal 55 miles an hour as a max so drive shaft balancing or any balancing of the drivetrain was not important. drive shaft balancing or any balancing of the drivetrain was not important you have to remember these tires are only meant to be ran at a maximum of 55 miles an hour that means like you're street tire was 120 miles an hour your go running at 120 miles an hour you have to remember if you want to run these things at higher mph you have to do the work other wise you're looking at catastrophic failure
I use antifreeze in the 14r20 on my m925 5 ton.
Also check for wheel bearing play
Wonder why Midwest military equipment said you absolutely cannot run balance beads with runflat inserts ? I took a truck 10 miles with runflats in the rims and at about 50 it’s shook so bad the front axle felt like it was going to fall off . They said it’s the runflat inserts, so removed the inserts and installed balance beads, now it’s good up until about 57-58 and basically does the same thing at that speed .
I’ll have to email and ask them. However I am running bead locks and not run flats. I’ve been running the balance beads for the last 15K miles. Any shake is quickly compensated by the beads and I run around 62 mph all day.
I have the chance to install some high speed gears in mine. I really like and trust the gentleman that's working on my truck right now. With potential tire issues relating to speed, do you think it was worth it to install the gears in the truck? Like is the extra 5-10 MPH worth the shaking at speed or that risk? What are your thoughts?
John Nesse 100% I would do the gears again. If your tires are shanking you’re fillings out. It is probably a clocking issue with the bead lock hardware. Also the balancing beads do make a difference. Before all of this balancing work, my truck would hop so bad at 60 it would threaten to change lanes on its own. But the gears have plenty of advantages other than just the speed aspect.
Is there a reason you can't balance them the way people used to back in the day with a bubble balance?
Yes bubble balancing should work. Finding one large enough is the main issue. I thought about building one. But never got quite got past the effort vs reward to do it.
I admit I haven’t read all the questions so this may already be answered but what tire pressure are you running in this video? Are you running 80 PSI? Just curious if the wobble gets better or worse going up in pressure or if it is insignificant. Great video as always.
80 psi. The magic mix is balance beads with weight on the back of the truck.
Great video. So there are issues with these @ 65? With my 395's I can hit 63 by the beginning of the yellow on the tach, but I usually keep her at 60. I've never had any issues with vibration, etc. but now I'm going to pay closer attention...lol...
Yeah they shake from 57 to about 63 but the shake comes and goes.
Did you put your two truest wheel assemblies on the front?
At this point I’m not sure which ones are the “truest” but I’m running them around for a while. Airing them down to sand driving a bit and running them back up to highway and running them a bit. I’ll put the GoPro back under and see which ones are the best and move them to the front.
I am so curious about those balance beads... how long are they guaranteed to last? I suspect anything rattling around would turn to dust before too long, but am very curious still the same. I have noted a tread alignment shimmy on my camera that I put under the rig. I think the production of the tires lacked the precision of these slightly higher speeds. Very good trials and effort that you put forward on this, and I thank you!
I have been using them for about 10 years now. Very little dust after all that time. 3 different sets of tires. Just dont use them on something that can accelerate fast.
I bought one of those valve stems. 😂
Are you using the 150psi pressure transducer to increase the air pressure at the tire ?
That is correct.
Mmmm Science...:)
I wonder if it won't improve when the truck is actually loaded down. I think running just a cab and chassis is causing it to be more pronounced.
100% agree, I’ve been kicking that thought around as well.
Another great video!
Want to offload your extra weights? I would be interested in them!
Also, what are your thoughts on antifreeze vs beads? I was tempted to do the antifreeze method as being easier with the wheel left in tact.
When I talked to Sean who did the antifreeze, he was saying that he was seeing a significant mist coming out of the vents when he aired down and felt that the antifreeze was evaporating out of the tire. He will know more once he changes a tire as to how much actually came out. The balance beads did help, but I think just running the truck is doing more to "wear the tires in to round" if you do go the antifreeze route try using an RV (non corrosive) antifreeze. I do have a couple of weights left if you want to try them out. send me an email at crustyonwheels@gmail.com
Broke OverLand
Just sent you an email.... my email starts with a Ram......@ram....com
Thanks!
I think I’ve seen you driving down Pearl street a few times. I was wondering if you have an Instagram page where I can ask you some more in-depth questions about lmtv’s like what to look for/out for when purchasing a surplus truck?
I have all of my contact information over on brokeoverland.com feel free to send me an email.
isnt the one side reverse thread on the lug nuts??
Yes drivers side is reverse thread lugs.
Run flat bolts.. should it be 180 out from CTIS or valve stem
CTIS valve body
@@BrokeOverLand Thank you for the quick reply, also saw reference to it in your video..
Have you ever thought of opening your own LMTV shop.
Manuel Serrano this is really a passion project for me. But I’m not sure I would want to take it on as a full time job. I like my day job, but this is my escape.
I like the details that you go into. It helps me understand the smaller components of this idea. But it reminds me of a of a more burning question I have. Got any kind of suggestions on how to get my truck registered in the state of Washington. They are giving me a hard time about a safety certification for the army truck.
Normally I would be suspicious of someone who measures in grams but it seems like you're a machinist lol
Look at airsoft 5mm BB's. Cheap and will let you know if you can balance them with beads.