Honestly this make sense it's not like their machines, besides the dragon likes goku and th z fighters he can be as selfish or dickish as he wants it's fascinating
But he is familiar enough with Pilaf and company to grant them multiple wishes before taking of in resurection of F. (To be fair, Pilaf summened him at least 2 times, and was present even more.) Or it was because those extra wishes were so small and childish he was like, sure, as long as this other guy doesn't get the extra wishes.
I don't believe that adding the logic of white/dark magic affect the "rule of power", if for example you wish for Goku to have a different t-shirt, or have his teeths clean, to have him give you a hug the earth dragon balls are able to accomplish those wishes. But you cannot do things that oppose or make detriment to Goku because of the power difference. The point is "not being able to damage nor prejudice" the person that is stronger. That's why you can revive people despite being stronger, because is a beneficial wish or a "white magic wish" (Kamisama wasn't stronger than Saiyajin saga Goku, nor Dende was to a lot of the people they revived after he "improved" the dragon balls). That's why it's phrased as a "good wish", to make them younger in their "benefit" despite being a wish with ulterior ill intentions
This is honestly a really good interpretation. That he made them younger not to make them weaker, but - to return youth to them. So he achieves the goal, that Shrenron wouldn't be able to grant if phrased otherwise. That's a good answer for sure. Now the only question is if this checks out with the Androids, not being able to be made human again, although, I guess we don't know if they WANT to become human. In which case, if they don't want it - then I think everything checks out
It's also worth noting that the wish seemingly didn't affect the actual power levels of the characters (although this may be proved/disproved in a future episode). Everybody still has access to their power, in theory, but they just have difficulty using it because they aren't accustomed to their small bodies.
Technically, the "password" is "Rise, Shenron, and grant me my wish!" but that's like having the password to your stuff be 0000. ("Amazing, that's the password to my suitcase!") And before you say you can say whatever and the balls will react, I think that might be true, but in the Majin Buu Arc, Yamcha asks Bulma if she remembers what has to be said for the balls to work, and she goes "Of course I do!" so in conclusion, it might be another classic Toriyama flip-flop.
To be fair. Imagine gathering all of the balls and not knowing 1. That his name is Shenron. 2. That you have to say anything specific at all. and 3. That you might not even know the language. The password actually works fairly well. It's only obvious to us, the viewer.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames I could be wrong as it been FOREVER since I seen the original Dragon Ball but I had a vivid memory of the Red Ribbon army winning, had all of the balls and Goku was in jail with his friends. Goku turning into a great ape allowed him to escape but if my memory serves the balls kept flashing but for whatever reason the red ribbon army delayed the wish ritual. I can't recall if someone was being sneaky and took a ball or the reasoning was that the Red Ribbon army didn't know how to kickstart the ritual. If it was the latter than the password while simple had always existed.
About Shenron telling total strangers to sod off or giving them half-baked wishes or adding non-official conditions to overcomplicate their requests so they don't get immediately what they want. It makes total sense when you remember that the last time Shenron gave a suspicious stranger his wish, said stranger immediately deleted him (King Piccolo). No wonder he also gave the Frieza goons a semi-dead Frieza instead of a fully resurrected one, probably thought they would be unable to properly revive him, not knowing they have sci-fi super healing machines, and his attempt at spawn killing Frieza should be considered a valiant effort and justified prediction considering his suspicions were true and Frieza destroyed Earth and the Dragon Balls months later until Whis reversed it all. Shenron definitely has good pattern recognition, non-humans will usually use the Dragon Balls for some horrible reason, the only exceptions so far being Namekians, the ones who can make them, and Saiyans, and only reformed Saiyans and I guess most earthly beings because very rarely will people not good will manage to find them all, let alone manage to use them. Not even the Demons themselves are trusted with using them because Neva created the Tamagami to stop non-Namekians from abusing their realm's Dragon Balls. The only reason Porunga, the Cereal planet Dragon and Super Shenron do not have such pattern recognition is because they have not suffered negative consequences from granting wishes. Shenron has seen so much BS happen from Dragon Ball usage before and throght the series that he barely trusts anyone that isn't associated or affiliated with the Dragon Team/Z-Warriors/the usual customers/Bulma (because she asks for insignificant things) because he sort of knows they likely are the unofficial Guardians of the Earth's Dragon Balls as in no other way would Dende/The Kami would have allowed them to continue existing (The Dragon Balls) if he didn't approve of the wishes of the people using them over and over. And to boot, they never ask for wishes with ill intentions either so the Dragon Balls are being abused just in constant usage but not in content of the wishes which I guess is ok for now. Knowing Super's current remaking of old concepts, the Shadow Dragons (Super version) are coming and there's a long list of stupid wishes from which to justify their appearance. Bulma already has made enough wishes to make like, 7 different Six-Star Shadow Dragons with all of her cosmetic wishes through Super's off-screen happenings.
My one gripe is that Shenron being a creation of Kami would know exactly who Demon King Piccolo was, as he is literally the personification of the evil cast out of Kami.
About the cosmetic wishes and the six-star balls, I'm pretty sure Kami says in Dragon Ball that the Dragon Balls are intended to be used for small wishes (like Bulma's cosmetic wishes) rather than big ones
@EndoScorpion Shenron is like a Genie. Once summoned, the rules require him to grant a wish. However, much like a genie, he can rebel by making it confusing, overly complicated, or not giving people exactly what they want by twisting there words if they weren't specific. Pretty sure he can't just not grant a wish, even if it's someone like King Piccolo or Frieza who summons him.
Hilarious. My favorite retcon for this kind of thing: everyone in the story is just wrong most of the time, and they don't really know what's going on.
I think it's supposed to be implied that black magic can be resisted but white magic can't. so thus removing the bombs from the androids doesn't affect their power of lifespan, but making them human would shorten their lifespan, so turning them human is black magic and removing the bombs is white. making the daima cast younger extends their lifespan and has no bearing on their power, therefore white magic. As for namek goku not returning to earth, he's just chill like that so porunga gave him the option
Regarding the resurrection time limit, no rules were broken, Kami (and therefore the Earth Crew) lacked a fundamental understanding of the reason Shenron can't resurrect people after 1 year. FnF explicitly shows us how Frieza has been using his vast strength of will to resist the purification process that results in reincarnation. A normal person is reincarnated after a year in the afterlife, at which point they can no longer be resurrected because they are no longer a soul in the afterlife (presumably the Super Dragonballs could replicate the past life as a new person or find the reincarnated soul and revert them to their past life, but that's all speculation) Goku was a special case of deceased person under no threat of reincarnation. He COULD have been resurrected after a year, but nobody knew that.
Yes, not everyone gets reincarnated, some souls keep their bodies if Enma wants them to. Exceptionally evil souls stay in Hell a lot longer than just a year. Some fallen warriors go to the Kais. Apparently Enma made a deal with them so the warriors can serve as enforcers in case something goes wrong in the Afterlife Enma can't deal with himself.
Kami said that the wish to revive *multiple* people would only work on those who died less than a year ago. He did *not* say that the same was true for individual revivals. So as far as we know, Shenron reviving Frieza despite him being dead for more than a year wasn't against the rules. And also, that was Kami, not Dende. Dende has not said anything about a time limit for revivals so far, afaik. Edit: Guys, this comment was to point out a flaw in the video's logic. I'm not at all trying to say that Dende's Dragon Balls work the same as Kami's, in fact I was trying to imply the opposite: that Dende's have different rules from Kami's. Edit2: Corrected the comment to what I *actually* meant.
@@BurstFlare I guess, but I kinda got the impression it was a law of the universe or something, and like I said dende just turned kami balls back on so idk if there's that many differences
@@yurazahi think it also has to do with how long it takes to a dead person to reincarnate, since freeza was still suffering in hell he was never reincarnated and could be brought back to life anytime.
@@yurazah They may seem the same balls but work by different rules. Dende activated them for his friends while Kami did it for some grander porpouse. That is the reason the Balls are more convenient with more wishes, and less restrictions while still having security measures like 1 wish only for first timers.
@@genericogeronimo2163 thats a good point, I mention something like this in my last video, its true, showing freeza still sitting in hell was a good way to show he wont move on
@@yurazah Dende still had to supply the magical power himself, so I don't think him using the physical orbs that already existed really means anything other than skipping the process of crafting them. Edit: Whoops, didn't see there were other replies before I typed this.
It could be a reflection of the Dragon's creator where it can shift the rules a bit based on personality and getting to know them. In the beginning, Shenron seem to be a bit neutral on wishes and just went by whatever rules were established. As time went on and he was summoned more and more, he started getting more of a personality and revealing more of what he can and can't do and sometimes shifting the rules a bit within reason (or if he was just chill with you). He's even given Piccolo more than what he asked for when unlocking his potential similar to Porunga reviving Krillan with his body intact, though this could be due to Shenron and Picolo's history, but it still ties to the Dragons just being friendly in general. As for those they don't like, the Dragons have been shown to be sassy or just trying to do things quickly to get away from them. They either get snarky with the wishes like bringing Frieza back in pieces, not telling them they have more than one wish, tell them they can't do something that they probably did before, or uphold the rules more strictly than before like with passwords or specific languages. The Black/White magic thing is in interesting reveal so who knows if that'll tie into GT related things in the future like the Black Star Dragonballs. At least they still give warnings when someone's wish comes with complications like if someone would be revived in space if the planet they were on was destroyed.
It was fun seeing Shenron's reaction to Beerus in Super, or when he realized he'd be waiting a while while Goku and the gang kept arguing who's going to be making the wish.
One thing to remember about the "Only do a wish once" is that it has to be the exact same wish so anyone but Oolong can just wish for panties and get them and there are ways Oolong could wish for more panties as he could wish for a different color panties, or someone's specific panties. The wish for youth would work for anyone but king Piccolo. Ect. the wish at the end of the Cell games didn't work on Goku because it was "everyone on Earth killed by Cell" Goku died on King Kia's planet which is why he wasn't brought back as well much to his anoyment.
Beside even if it could work in goku that time he could choose that he wasnt going to be revived, he is stronger that Dende so he could negate wished targeting him.
I guess the idea is supposed to be that the wish to turn them isn’t kids isn’t technically an “attack.” It’s a wish for youth after all, and so slips through.
Daima's logic for the wish makes sense. It was never said directly that the dragon cannot affect targets stronger than his creator, and we know for a fact this isn't the case as Goku's consent wasn't asked for in the Saiyan Saga, the dragon simply revived him. Same for getting the bombs out of the androids. He didn't alter completely what kind of being they were, consequently stripping them of their might. He just made a modification exclusively for their benefit that required no consent. The idea that Gohma made the Z Fighters weak by doing a "harmless" wish that does not include offensive magic is logical with the new retcon and is very clever. He didn't ask the saiyans to be offed or to have their powers directly stripped from them. White magic being introduce to distinguish good from bad wishes makes sense and it's a good inclusion.
I hate that they're not actually children. They're just super deformed, mini versions of themselves. All the potential of them actually being kids and equalized in power and having to grow again together is gone.
did you not watch dragon ball? i suppose piccolo is more of a teen but they're not equalized in power and never will. that's what dragon ball fighters is for.
Daima probably will be a relatively short anime, and that idea would just feel rushed if they squeezed it in. Also, Vegeta was a monster with 10k battle power as a child and Goku only had like 100. It wouldn't make much sense.
@@JimBimBum But that's precisely the potential I was hoping could have been done in Daima. It would have been a very fun way to do that. If any show could have broken the status quo, it was Daima, but instead they're just the same. They haven't changed at all.
Also they wouldn't have "equalized power" Vegeta was stronger than everyone else when he was a kid by a lot, so that idea just straight up doesn't work, Vegeta would have just take over the planet.
This subject is probably one of the most contentious and misunderstood parts of the Dragon Ball series. Here is the scene: 3:07 Fans have interpreted this as meaning that Shenron cannot revive anyone who’s been dead for more than a year. But that not really the case. What Kami is actually saying is that when reviving large groups of people - such as Nappa and Vegeta’s countless victims - Shenron is limited to those who have died in the past year. Case in point, Kaio tells Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu, that since Shenlong used to revive Freeza’s victims this time, they will have to wait an extra year for their turn. There’s no mention of a “one-year time limit”, because their group is small enough that it isn’t an issue. Not that it matters in the latter two’s case. Shenlong can’t grant the same wish twice and Chaozu’s already used his get-out-of-death-free card, and Tenshinhan would rather stay dead than leave Chaozu behind. So, it wasn’t a plot hole or a retcon when Freeza was resurrected in DBZ Movie 15 and Dragon Ball Super.
@capofantasma97 because Freeza is ridiculously tough, hanging out in pieces in space, being basically fine after Broly beat on him for an hour. There's a reason Trunks blasted him after chopping. He probably would have died shortly but they got him into the tank pretty fast.
I think the reason why in super the hero's started mentioning there's a "Password" is so that the bad guys who dont know any better just dont make the wish right away. It's a bluff.
Yeah it's 100% a bluff. The only dragon where this isn't a bluff on is porunga but that's only because you have to speak namekian. Other than that though the inconsistencies can't be explained other than author forgot. But I don't really find that an issue just like the video creator doesn't. Minor plot holes that don't ruin the feelings the story is meant to convey are fine after all. It's moreso when things are blatant enough to catch in real time or just lead you to convey a different emotion upon reflection that they become a problem.
@goldenascension8635 oh whoops, that's my bad, I just now noticed that you were replying to him. When I see a UA-cam notification I always think it's directed towards me
I'd argue the bombs are an external mechanism BUT from what Super explained, the anfroids are also genetically enhanced to the cellular level as well, so it's not just the mechanical parts it's the fact their cells are super strong too.
The Granola one is probably only possible for very powerful people. Gas and Granola are both incredibly strong, and Gas’ higher base strength causes his wish to supersede Granola’s (or that’s because the wish was made with Granola in mind, who knows). It’s like a more extreme potential unlock: all of the power you will ever have (over the course of 150 years) is condensed into 3 years, then your potential is unlocked, and then you are given a variety of special magical and spirit control based techniques (something similar to Hakai, some planet energy attacks, Instant Transmission, etc). The wish is basically just optimizing the shit out of someone’s natural abilities, giving then additional abilities, and then basically killing them in order to get a short burst of power. That all seems reasonable to me
Gas's wish resulted into some sort of magically mandated ability that forced the effects of the wish to continuously apply to him whenever someone overtook him in power (or he became weaker from fighting), which is very, very strange, as Granolah obviously didn't get anything like that, so I can only really assume it worked that way as a side effect of the wish attempting to overcome Granolah's.
No, Gas wish is to be ALWAYS THE STRONGEST, while Granolah only wished to be the strongest AT THAT MOMENT. Wording made the two wishes different as Gas will always be forced to get stronger by aging him up whenever he gets surpassed, which is why Gas didn't die from being donuted by Freeza, but from the wish attempting to make him stronger than Black Freeza by making Gas even older which killed Gas as he doesn't have enough spare Lifespan to give up to reach Black Freeza's Level.
I think when it comes to the time limit, I think Moori and Dende, being newer, are much less willing to bend the rules while Kami has chilled out after a few hundred years on earth and is willing to make an exception once in a while.
Granola's wish didn't made him the strongest, his wish unlocked his theoretical potential in exchange for his lifetime (I know is a bad explanation but only like that would make sense that Gas keeps beating Granola by a lot)
Granola wished to become the strongest in the universe at the cost of sacrificing most of his lifespan. Gas then made the same wish later with most likely the same consequences, which caused him to exceed Granola's power. It's not that complicated.
Toronbo isn't a cursed dragon. Sacrificing nearly the entirety of your lifespan to catch up to Goku and Vegeta makes sense, as A) their power was obtained through a life time of dedicated training, and B) Saiyans have a BS handicap in the form of Zenkai boosts. Their power increases dramatically in accordance with how much stress they place their bodies under. So in order to exceed that power, somebody wishing to become stronger than them must also have to pay a hefty price.
It similar to the hyperbolic time chamber. You are still aging even if time is moving more slowly. What happens if start training for 10 years but die in the chamber. That's the risk reward.
@@ultimasurge how is abridged peak comedy? They took something that already existed and then injected memes that already existed into the writing and dialogue. Defiantly creative, but saying that it's above the talent of people who just make their humor from the nebula is quite manipulative.
@@sidcomegys4154 Because it is endlessly entertaining , and everything in humanity is sourced from something that exists. but this wasn't done in bad faith. Parody and mimicry is a compliment to the original work. The type of manipulation that i supposedly am engaging in isn't in the type of connotation you seem to be accusing me off. But what do you mean manipulative. i was only being congratulatory and sharing agreement with the person replying to me? if you dont like abridged you can just say so.
To answer the question you asked. Getting a disease is considered a natural death if you die from it. I think it's stated somewhere that Goku couldn't come back to life with the dragon balls because of the heart virus killing him. As for Shenron not granting the same wish twice I think that was on an individual level. If I asked for a chocolate cake then asked Shenron to make you a chocolate cake they would technically be different wishes. I also believe Shenron just has a weird thing where he can't affect people stronger than his creator unless they're willing. This is why Shenron couldn't revive Goku after Cell. Porunga says the same after Namek when they try to bring Goku back to Earth but Goku wasn't willing to leave yadrat so Porunga couldn't grant their wish. The androids not beinf turned back to human could have a better explanation of they are already human, just enhanced humans, where their bombs are not a natural part of the body and thus can be removed with them being willing.
My guess is Porunga couldn't initially bring back more than one person because the thought of mass death tragedies didn't occur to the peaceful Namekians. After Frieza, they were smart enough to give the next iteration the ability to bring back multiple people.
To be fair for the Frieza wish, Kami's explanation is pretty vague. In the arc, the question of the Dragon Balls' range comes up a couple of times, with people wondering if they'd be able to affect people in a far off planet, and although it's concluded and later shown that yes, that is within their capabilities, you can see how Kami is taken aback at the proposition of making a universe wide wish, and while he explains the one year stipulation in response, it's clearly not because it's something he'd normally consider. Furthermore, the example wish (and the actual one with Frieza's forces), by default, revolve around reviving multiple people, and as we see with the original Namekian Dragon Balls being incapable of doing that, as well as Dende's version requiring two wishes to make it possible, we can see that that's a hard bargain to start with. And so, while the actual mechanics of it aren't plainly communicated, and I'm not actually sure what we were meant to gleam from Kami's comment, it does seem like "revive everyone ever killed by (x) everywhere" is supposed to be a pretty out there wish that's pushing the boundaries of what the Dragon Balls could do, and so maybe for that reason it requires some sort of limitation for it to stay physically possible. You know, maybe. It could be that reviving someone who's been dead for more than a year is itself an instance of a particularly difficult wish, and thus can't viably be stacked with the additional condition of applying to a group, or, perhaps the range issue would also need to come into play before being ruled out. You would think that'd similarly make it cost two wishes to be granted by Dende's balls though? Which definitely wasn't the case for Frieza, so, guess it still might not work for RoF/Super after all. As for the natural causes thing, we immediately see upon the rule's introduction that Guru could still be brought back for a time, since his condition was made worse due to his environment. That shows the rule is pretty lax, and makes one wonder when it's actually relevant or why Toriyama wrote it into the series at all, but I figure the rationale is that if your natural state is resulting in your death, then it wouldn't make sense for the Dragon Balls to do anything by reverting your death, since you'd just like, be back to square one and instantly die again. Clearly wishing someone back doesn't revert aging, and... Huh, I'm not sure what would happen to the microorganisms in your body after a trip through the afterlife, do they count as part of you if they co-exist in balance with your body? I mean, I don't think they uh, have souls in Dragon Ball, and it'd be real strange if everyone had a completely clean slate upon revival, right? That sounds like it'd be... unhealthy? I was just gonna say that I assumed Goku would keep the heart virus if he was revived in the future timeline, but unexpectedly I stumbled my way into opening Pandora's Box of inanity. I'm not even done, actually, because ironically, if revival DID rid Goku of his disease, it would ultimately be beneficial if in the three years before the androids he somehow died then was brought back to life, you know, in a sort of really fucked up way. Oddly enough, Granolah's wish is the most clear cut thing I'm gonna mention here, and it's one of Super's better uses of the Dragon Balls in my opinion. I think the completely absurd leap in power right from the beginning coupled with a refusal to make Goku and Vegeta far beyond the level of any new fighters that would ever show up (since that would suck ass for a battle shounen) is a problem in its own right, and characters like Jiren casually (out)matching everyone without anything observaly special about them or even a drop of God Ki in their arsenals (Toppo uses it and he's not even his universe's strongest guy!) serve to make everything before them look meaningless in a way that, impressively, the original DB never could... BUT. Having said that... _Since_ other fighters do regularly put up a fight against the main cast without much of a justification, that is now the manner in which the series consistently operates, and, under that light, Granolah needing to spend pretty much his entire life training, under magically ordained optimal conditions, while possessing an outstandingly long lifespan, JUST to reach Goku and Vegeta's level... is actually pretty charitable. After all, since the wish condenses all that time he would normally spend training into an instant, it would presumably be far more efficient than any ordinary form of training, as it implies those 150 years of getting stronger involved literally no other activity ever besides presumably resting (if, even that? It is magic), meanwhile any other person would have to, you know, do other stuff, even outside their downtime and rest periods. Jiren (he's the key example, really) on the other hand didn't have none of that, he simply trained normally (in the anime it's even implied he did it alone...?) and just sort of got that strong anyway. With no transformations. No God Ki. Just 'cause. tl;dr: idk man they write whatever they feel like in the moment
Maybe instead of a lot of rules they could go with just 2 conditions: "If the dragon is powerful enough to do it and if the dragon considers that it's a reasonable wish"
I like to think that because the Namekians had their set of DB’s for a longer time and treated them like holy objects, they didn’t experiment with them at all. Meanwhile Kami had to make a set of his own and figure out how they work by himself so he must have done a ton of experimentation with them. Also explains why Dende wouldn’t know how to do the things that Kami could.
7:55 - The one-year limitation was specifically only for wishes where a large quantity of people are being revived. Kami says if there are too many people being wished back, SHenron's powers only extend to a year. Basically to explain why the Frieza wish wouldn't bring back the Saiyans lol
Password for earth shenron exists. To make him come out you need to say the specific phrase, which on Japanese sounds like "ideo shenron, kanae tamae" and is usually translated as "come, shenron and fulfill my wishes"
I remember reading a quote from Toriyama saying the Dragon Balls are comparable to a computer for us. A computer can do things which far exceeds a human, like doing calculations in an instant or rending 3D environments, etc. But a computer is still limited in what it can do based on who made it. Same concept for Dragon balls. Which I think is a cool way to look at it.
I genuinely thought the dragon balls' power was limitless (besides some absurd requests being outside shenron's power). I had no idea about the double wishing rule. that's crazy
obligatory "but what about GT??" they explain that the dragon balls can be "configured" to do different things, but will have external side-effects a more powerful set of "ultimate" dragon balls or "black star dragon balls" can make any wish that overwrite the will of someone more powerful, but will cause a calamity on the planet that does line up with how Torombo works by taking away your remaining life and as for Shenron being able to remove the bombs but not turn them back into humans? I THINK is because Dende could heal but not outright revive someone, or like a surgery can take out a tumor compared to reverting a cancer
Well that turning 18 human was technically before she was retconned into being a cyborg. So at the time it did make sense that he couldnt turn a robot into something with a soul
@@iananderson4754 but seriously, that';s not it, they could "revive" 17 even though he was still inside cell when he exploded, but they were still androids, and yes, that happened in the original series it's likely that they were teenagers around the saiyan saga, but stopped aging because they were turned into androids, or because the stasis pods they were stuck inside for years, or a combination of both so is very likely shenron was not capable of reverting the effect of being android for who knows how long, but removing a bomb is much easier than reverting a body and all that, bulma and dr brief done to 16, but I don't think they could have done it to 17 and 18, and even if they could, krillin would not be thinking that right at that moment when the magic god dragon was unable to turn then back into humans, so he probably try to think the next best thing on the spot, just so they don't waste an extra 3rd wish after only having 1 wish prior
@Kate_Hanami I know about the artificial human being the original name. It's just that doesn't really say cyborg in any meaningful way. Don't take me as some casual who never actually watched the show.
they had to bring in the over a year death retcon cuz they were literally just about to ressurect the entire saiyan race otherwise cant have a superman reference without that.
Shenron can effect people stronger than his creator, but they get to choose whether or not to be effected, perhaps subconsciously. The androids didn't want to be humans again, they liked being superhuman. But they were plenty fine to no longer have explosives implanted in them, so that wish was granted
I believe the reason for the year time limit in canon is that the afterlife takes after Buddhism in that reincarnation occurs and most souls become purified and placed in new bodies within a year so after that point you would be effectively killing somebody to bring someone else back. Frieza gets to be an exception as he refused to get purified despite his literal hellish torture so he was still around. And also a virus does in fact count as natural causes as it was stated that in the ruined future, they couldn’t wish back Goku after his death from the heart virus since it was natural causes.
The year limit on revival is definitely more a multi res thing than individual revival, Goku was dead for a whole year after all and he was brought back to life.
Someone actually theorized that with the year limit the rule may be in place because of stuff like reincarnation in universe. Imagine wishing back your significant other.. and some random person's baby suddenly dying because their soul is back with the previois body.
5:40 No matter how one is grouped, being revived again counts as the same wish. Otherwise they would just say revive those killed by the Saiyans to bring back everyone since they never made that exact wording to revive them, undermining their use of Porunga for that instead. For another example, Yamcha goes first against the Saiyans because Kuririn cannot be wished back. If Kuririn did die, and they wished back everyone killed by the Saiyans, Kuririn would still not be revived (since if he was, Yamcha's point is moot, which the story does not seem to support) Just a quirk of what constitutes the "same" wish, albeit, I agree it is clunky, but yes that means Goku cannot be revived alongside other Cell victims. Also, it is not that people cannot be brought back after a year, it is mass group revival limits to only those killed in the last year, so Freeza is fine. They actually planned on reviving Goku after a year when they wanted to kill the Saiyans, and no one saw a problem with that beyond the fact that the wish could not be granted (other similar instances of potentially holding off revivals also exist, just hammers in the point it is only for mass revivals). 6:40 Probably more so Toriyama changed his mind since having access to the creator undermines the stakes even more, but an in-universe rationale is that it was reset early due to God resetting the statue, and it would be reckless to constantly recharge said statue. 9:10 It is not literally a trade of life-force for power. It is trading the amount of time it would have taken to get to that point, sort of. Goku got to that level with training, so yes, people could match it with their own training, and the wish just did so immediately, give or take. That is also how Granolla has more than just power, but various new techniques as well. 9:28 Gas did not make the same wish. Granolla asked to be the strongest at that moment. Gas's was to always be the strongest, continuously. This means the trade is constantly in effect if someone more powerful appeared, eventually aging him near-death. Might be considered distinct enough. 10:06 The incantation is the password (calling Shenlong's name). If all seven are gathered and Shenlong is not requested for, nothing happens. It is admittedly a very simple password. Everyone on Earth already knows it since it is part of the legend. Not canon, but I believe it is also called a password in the second Broli movie, or close enough. 10:15 Whilst I agree the magic classification does not justify it, one could say that Neba empowered Shenlong when he forced it off cool-down, so it essentially has the power of two Gods instead of one, and that might be what bypasses the power limitation. Neba even says he could not pull off that same feat again in the next episode, suggesting some of his power went into it.
On the "dead for more then a year" thing, that's said about to wish to revive everyone friezia and his men had killed which was *alot* that is in reference to that wish, so in general it could revive someone who had been dead for that long, it was just the number of revives that was the issue.
Just to be a bit more clear on the Granolah Wish. Granolah gave up 150 years of his life and in exchange, Toronbo would give him all of the power and techniques he could have possibly trained to get in 150. Anything he possibly could have trained to attain in 150 years, he was given in exchange for that time.
I'm pretty sure Toronbo stated that Granolah will never become the strongest in the universe under normal circumstances, even if he trained for his entire life. What he did was condense a massive portion of Granolah's lifespan into pure power to make the wish come true.
Ok I think I can make a theory. Thing is db cast hold and suppress their power whenever they're not in combat situation hence dropping their power lvl below the margin needed to resist wishes or reality wrapping. As we saw even throughout the series charecter always holds in their ki which drops their stats. Even in cell saga they mentioned it .
That's an interesting idea, wishes being like Sorbet's laser gun. However, Saiyans in stasis sleep in space should definitely have their guard down(is it the armor????)
@@Supahdenning during sorbet laser gun . Goku was exhausted of ki so yeah his stats are down . As for stasis sleep. That depends if they interfered with their ki . Like did they lowered themselves down or did they just let it normal . For example how during kid Goku time he doesn't have much control over his ki and bullets barrages are bouncing off of him while as an adult he supressed himself thus the bullet was able to graze him in super . Mostly theories . Feels free to disagree.
there is sort of an unmentioned vibe of Shenron being a benevolent genie, so it's possible repeat wishes are "rules lawyered" because he's a Lawful Good kind of character he seems to legitimately want the good guys to succeed but still has to grant wishes to anyone who manages it. That also makes sense why he'd leave Frieza in a bundle of horrible chunks.
I personally thought of it that Shenron only granted one wish (initially) but could multi-target though with the restriction that each wish could only be granted once. So, if you wished to “bring back everyone that just died on earth”, it would be like numerous wishes being granted, each to revive a person. The restriction would prevent the resurrection of anyone that Shenron had resurrected before. So, perhaps everyone who just died would be revived except Krillin because he had been revived before by Shenron. Then Porunga would grant 3 wishes but with no multi-target but with no repeated wish restriction. So, you could bring the same person back to life repeatedly, but you could only bring back one person at a time with him and thus would be limited by the number of wishes at any one time. I have never read nor known the manga, but I’ve seen the anime before (though it’s been a while). So, these were my interpretations based on what they said in the anime and what I subsequently saw. I kind of like the two dragon’s power sets being different than each other’s in that way. It makes each more useful in some situations. Shenron can affect more people at once, Porunga’s wishes are themselves less restrictive. I like it anyway. It was nice to hear more background on how the wishes work.
By Resurrection F, Dende has been Earth's guardian for years, so he probably did modify the rules. Also in the movie they only got 2 wishes, so maybe reviving someone who has been dead for a while is similar to reviving a large amount of people.
You know what could be a good next video? All the times the could had fix everything just using logic and the dragon balls, like when "Future Kaio" could had talked to the namekians and ask for vegeta and the other to be revived.
I want to see some filler where they wish for Shenron to be just some dude for a day so he can have a fun time or something. He's doing all the heavy lifting in the series and gets no love.
Yes. The way I see it - they wanted to act like the wish could be interpreted as beneficial like youth restoration which the dragon has done before. So Gomah exploits this loophole to weaken the Z fighters and their friends.
Kami, the og, might just have a special technique to wake his dragon. Or at least that's my excuse, dragon clan probably has some skills they train and specialize in. "BEHOLD, THE ANCIENT TECHNIQUE PASSED DOWN THE DRAGON CLAN FOR THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS: THE *SACRED* CLAY MOLDING TECHNIQUE!"
Its been my head canon that there is an additional unspoken rule where the creator of a set of dragon balls/wish orbs can't wish upon their own set. I think there have been times where Dende has woken Shenron up but others made the wishes.
Sheron's explanation on who gets to have 3 wishes is a similar concept of principle that is used by lenders, such as banks or insurance companies, when lending sums of money to consumers based on credit score. So I think it works as a good explanation.
10:00 Everyone after Frieza keeps researching the "password" makes sense because the only parties doing the research are aware of or encountered the Namek dragon balls first. Earth's Dragon Balls are not commonly known
Earth Shenron's password is the same as having the code lock on your luggage being "12345" and not expecting people to decode the lock and steal everything you had in it.
I always thought that the "Cool down" timer was for the dragonballs to passively recharge themselves, that the creator could repower them, but at some unseen cost. Regarding the "one-year dead rule", I think that it might have to do with the "soul passing on" or a rule by King Yemma. Those allowed to "keep their bodies", maybe are exempt to the rule, this might explain why Goku being dead for almost a year at the start of DBZ wasn't at risk of remaining dead. This could also explain why "Freiza's soul didn't crossover and he remained in Hell."
I think that not only does the rule of natural causes apply to Shenron and viruses, but I think it was specifically introduced to explain why Trunks' future was a thing and why they couldn't revive Goku when he died of the heart virus before Piccolo and thus Kami died, rendering the dragon balls inert.
I think the thing with the Androids is that they were already humans. Gero didn't "create" 17 and 18, they're just ordinary humans that he kidnapped and enhanced. So Shenron couldn't turn them into something that they already are, but he can remove their bombs.
0:38 I can't help but think that the way they've decided to portray Shenron in daima is by giving him his own personality and things he want and don't want to do, like it genuinely seemed to me like he was specifically trying to not do something bad to those who he have met and helped many times previously.
Frieza being revived I can explain by saying maybe it takes a year to cleanse and reincarnate a soul but since frieza refused to be cleansed and reincarnated he got to circumvent the 1 year rule
In the case of Toronbo granting the same wish twice, I feel like it is the case of who is the chosen target. As Granolah wished to become the strongest in the universe with his wish, he is specifically wishing "I (Granolah) to become the strongest", in Elec's wish he wanted Gas to become the strongest in the universe making the wish state "Gas becomes the strongest in the universe. In this case they are making different wishes because who is being targeted by specifications of the wish are different. This is why multiple people could say I wish for eternal youth because the wish isn't specifically " I want eternal youth", it's more likely taken as " King Piccolo wishes for Eternal Youth".
1. I think the no reviving a person more than once rule is a retcon replacing the 'I can't Grant the same wish twice rule'. 2. As for the inconsistency in the rule of not reviving someone after a year. The way I interpreted the rule was specifically affecting reviving groups of people that has been dead over a year that follow the same conditions as you asked to revive. For example in the freeza saga they specifically asked to revive people who been deleted by Frieza and his men. If the rule was not implemented it would revive a huge roster of people. Including all the people Frieza and his army has destroyed throughout the existence of the freezer Force. Even reviving people who died on destroyed planets such as the Saiyans basically leaving them to float and parish. With this in mind and the evidence of Frieza being revived even though he's been gone for over a year I honestly think the rule only applies for Mass revival.
I always just tell myself that the rules changed more than the plot tells us when then Dende took over as guardian. And they keep it vague so that they can kinda play it by ear, kinda like how shenron powers up Piccolo in the latest movie.
I suspect that the dragonball cooldown is more of a safety feature. It can be bypassed, but probably with possible consequences. Perhaps using them too frequently puts strain on them. The idea that overuse built up negative energy in GT was a cool concept, and something like that could easily be made canon in future Dragonball products
6:10 My headcanon is that this is the case - the Androids subconsciously wanted the bombs removed, so the wish was granted. However, this would imply that he can read someone’s deepest thoughts. That said, it might be possible since his wishes seem to align with what someone truly desires, without twisting them in the malicious way that evil djinns often do in other fantasy stories (unless they dont like person making the wish I guess).
i honestly just think Shenron can just do that because the bombs arent realy even parts of their body or are vital to their life in any way so it thecnicaly dosent count as affecting them and thus those realy count as needing the consent, dont think they should even notice the bombs being gone realy, what im saying might just be bs tho
The way I saw it was thus: You can overwrite someone's will but you have to WANT to overwrite it. What the Dragon is doing can't be something that directly causes harm. It's like how Goku could decline being resurrected and his friends respected his decision instead of just forcing it on him. But they also can't wish for someone to be hurt, injured, nor killed. Wishing for someone to be a child might not fall under direct harm for Shenron.
It's also possible that the androids use a different kind of energy that doesn't afford them the same kind of protection as ki does, since they can't be detected by scouter or power level sensing (at least 19 and 20, I don't remember for sure if 17 and 18 are also undetectable but I believe they are).
@@togeluga_the_cat Exactly. Shenron explained this in the story. He can't turn 17 and 18 human since it would completely change their physical state, but he can remove the bombs since it is not essential to their function.
Doesn’t it literally just say he can do it since it doesn’t affect there power in any way removing the bomb doesn’t make make them stronger or weaker or anything else
I always interpreted the no same wish rule as being "you cant get the same effect twice" so if a person dies and is wished back then dies with a group that one person won't be revived because that would result in essentially the same wish twice
it is possible that, the cooldown timer isnt a feature, but a purpose limitation, if i remember correcly all the times the balls came back, they havent realized a wish before, but just lost their power, it is possible that the cooldown timer is sorta the dragon ball reuniting their power again after being used, but the creator can shock them back if he uses his ki insted, thought that would likely be a burden, thought in the end, the dragons balls are just a plot device.
5:35 that's how I understand it though, that it was more about bringing back the same person twice, not about restricting wishing for panties two+ times
Some thoughts from me: 3:52 For me it reads like this particular wish has a "wait, I have to to ask him first" restriction on the "move a person" wish. Not a issue that came up before, because everyone else was _okay_ being brought to earth. But Goku expected a Dragon Call and probably thought this through in the half year before. 6:31 Apparently Kami was more experienced at handling the balls and thus was the only one that could reset them early? Or that was a feature Dende had to cut, because of the wish count increase? He was clearly working with a limited budget here, given the "multi rez counts as two" limitation. 7:57 Who says Dende can't fine tune them after the Cell Saga? Or after Buu? He probably takes them "offline for a day for sheduled maintenance", while no plot is happening. Or is just able to work that in during the regular cooldown. 8:08 Super Shenron undid Zeno's _Universe Erasure_ That is some _very_ busted power. But it is likely he had both Zeno's consent when doing it, so not sure if he really is stronger then Zeno. 8:45 You misread. That was "increase your power up to your latent potential" plus "compress a 150 years worth of your full power into 3 years". Apparently that combination was just about enough. 9:23 "Make Gas the strongest in the universe" and "Make Granolah the strongest in the Universe" are clearly different wishes. Right there in the subject part of the sentence! If they count as the same wish, then so would "Bring back Bora" and "Bring back Goku". Something that clearly is not true. 10:00 The password is very clearly, "Rise Eternal Dragon", "Rise Shenron", "Dragon Arise" or a variant of those. Not the best password. You can probably brute force it or say it by accident. But it is _technically_ a password. And bringing the balls together was never enough to get a wish.
I think the "beyond my power" in the Android case is less "I am too weak" and more "I don't have enough gas left." After all, the wish to revive everyone leaves him with a single wish, in truth its probably less than that. And maybe the period time of the dragons turning to stone is simply a necessity for them to rest.
I always interpreted the 1 year rule to be how long it takes for a soul to reincarnate. The Manga afterlife has no hell and just has reincarnation. Thus, to revive a reincarnated person you have to kill their new self and so Shenron refuses killing a baby. But, Freeza refused to reincarnate and was thus still available to be brought back. That's personally why I felt they specifically mention he refused to reincarnate, to establish why he's an exception.
Couple notes: Future Trunks says that Goku can't be revived because death by virus is a natural death, and Dende says Porunga can bring back people any number of times, suggesting there is no limit on granting the same wish multiple times.
You said it. "The plot demands it". There's no such thing as hard rules in Toriyama's world and people who go around looking for them are the ones that don't understand
Actualy Daima explanation fit in some way in canon, it seems Dragon have bigger power if he grant wish that benefit someone, He didn't need agreement to remove bomb from androids, because he was doing something what benefit them, The only situation when this is contradicted was when Goku refused to be sent home, but I think that was only because Goku know Shenlong and he instantly refused when he sensed him, we see couple times that your relation with dragon change a lot. So I think Dragon can grant any wish that benefit someone stronger than his creator, but can't grant any wish that would harm someone stronger than his creator. Example: Dragon can bring to live someone stronger (I guess if this someone would know the Dragon he could still refuse, let's say if Goku would want to stay on King Kai planet for aome reason, because of this relation it couldn't be done), Dragon can grant someone stronger power, imortality etc. etc., Dragon can't make someone stronger, older/weaker etc.
I think the thing is that there were so many versions of the dragon balls, earth's dragonballs being different from Namek's, then different iterations of earth's dragon balls being different from previous ones, and don't get me started on other types of dragonballs in Super and GT and so on. That makes things so confusing that yeah the creators will be so inconsistent that the rules will be what they need them to be at the moment. Especially Shenron giving different rules Daima depending on who's making the wish is a yet new thing that will now open a whole new world of wiggle room, that (besides limitations of what the dragon CAN do) it's ultimately the dragon's *decision* how many wishes he wants to grant, what kinds, and so on - a good chunk of the limitations is artificially, consciously imposed (which makes sense as a failsafe against abuse, which the characters totally do anyway, like the whole gag with Bulma using Shenron as her personal beautician rationalising that she does it to prevent bad guys from being able to use them, etc.)
that was toei's mistake, bumlas hair was supposed to be purple like trunks, but the decided to make trunks blue aswell to be consistent, even if i think its a weird choice
The black/white magic thing is just a theory of Daima who just assumes that's how the dragon works, it doesn't necessarily mean it works like that and given they were in a hurry they just tried that wish instead of wasting time figuring out what can work or not The wish itself being able to be granted is still a plothole, but I'll give DB Daima a passa since so far it's been pretty good
I think the wording of the one year revival restriction means it only applies to group revivals. But that a person who was dead more than a year can still be revived if the whole wish is used to bring just that one person back.
3:07 people misunderstand the rule about people being dead for over a year. Thats only for large vague groups of people. So in the buu saga, they could wish Zarbon, or the ginyu force. But if they wish to "bring back everyone vegeta has killed," it would be only those at the tournament and pui pui. Not everyone he killed throughout his entire life. That's what that restriction means. So bringing back frieza was not a contradiction.
Based on daima episode 2 dragon can just decide to not give you 3 wishes 😂,
"I don't know who you are so you only get one"
yeah, saw that while I was drawing the thumbnail...
i saw it as shenron spatting on him. "i don't know you. tuah! you get one, take it or leave it."
Honestly this make sense it's not like their machines, besides the dragon likes goku and th z fighters he can be as selfish or dickish as he wants it's fascinating
But he is familiar enough with Pilaf and company to grant them multiple wishes before taking of in resurection of F. (To be fair, Pilaf summened him at least 2 times, and was present even more.) Or it was because those extra wishes were so small and childish he was like, sure, as long as this other guy doesn't get the extra wishes.
well, the dragonballs did get forcefully activated earlier than they should have been. it makes sense that Shenron won't have the same wishing power.
I don't believe that adding the logic of white/dark magic affect the "rule of power", if for example you wish for Goku to have a different t-shirt, or have his teeths clean, to have him give you a hug the earth dragon balls are able to accomplish those wishes. But you cannot do things that oppose or make detriment to Goku because of the power difference. The point is "not being able to damage nor prejudice" the person that is stronger. That's why you can revive people despite being stronger, because is a beneficial wish or a "white magic wish" (Kamisama wasn't stronger than Saiyajin saga Goku, nor Dende was to a lot of the people they revived after he "improved" the dragon balls). That's why it's phrased as a "good wish", to make them younger in their "benefit" despite being a wish with ulterior ill intentions
This is honestly a really good interpretation. That he made them younger not to make them weaker, but - to return youth to them. So he achieves the goal, that Shrenron wouldn't be able to grant if phrased otherwise. That's a good answer for sure. Now the only question is if this checks out with the Androids, not being able to be made human again, although, I guess we don't know if they WANT to become human. In which case, if they don't want it - then I think everything checks out
It's also worth noting that the wish seemingly didn't affect the actual power levels of the characters (although this may be proved/disproved in a future episode). Everybody still has access to their power, in theory, but they just have difficulty using it because they aren't accustomed to their small bodies.
Technically, the "password" is "Rise, Shenron, and grant me my wish!" but that's like having the password to your stuff be 0000. ("Amazing, that's the password to my suitcase!") And before you say you can say whatever and the balls will react, I think that might be true, but in the Majin Buu Arc, Yamcha asks Bulma if she remembers what has to be said for the balls to work, and she goes "Of course I do!" so in conclusion, it might be another classic Toriyama flip-flop.
To be fair. Imagine gathering all of the balls and not knowing 1. That his name is Shenron. 2. That you have to say anything specific at all. and 3. That you might not even know the language.
The password actually works fairly well. It's only obvious to us, the viewer.
@@Unethical.FandubsGamestrue
the old shenron can answer to human language but prounga and revived shenron only answer to namekian
It's literally stated you need to say that in the first chapter
@@Unethical.FandubsGames I could be wrong as it been FOREVER since I seen the original Dragon Ball but I had a vivid memory of the Red Ribbon army winning, had all of the balls and Goku was in jail with his friends. Goku turning into a great ape allowed him to escape but if my memory serves the balls kept flashing but for whatever reason the red ribbon army delayed the wish ritual. I can't recall if someone was being sneaky and took a ball or the reasoning was that the Red Ribbon army didn't know how to kickstart the ritual. If it was the latter than the password while simple had always existed.
About Shenron telling total strangers to sod off or giving them half-baked wishes or adding non-official conditions to overcomplicate their requests so they don't get immediately what they want.
It makes total sense when you remember that the last time Shenron gave a suspicious stranger his wish, said stranger immediately deleted him (King Piccolo). No wonder he also gave the Frieza goons a semi-dead Frieza instead of a fully resurrected one, probably thought they would be unable to properly revive him, not knowing they have sci-fi super healing machines, and his attempt at spawn killing Frieza should be considered a valiant effort and justified prediction considering his suspicions were true and Frieza destroyed Earth and the Dragon Balls months later until Whis reversed it all.
Shenron definitely has good pattern recognition, non-humans will usually use the Dragon Balls for some horrible reason, the only exceptions so far being Namekians, the ones who can make them, and Saiyans, and only reformed Saiyans and I guess most earthly beings because very rarely will people not good will manage to find them all, let alone manage to use them. Not even the Demons themselves are trusted with using them because Neva created the Tamagami to stop non-Namekians from abusing their realm's Dragon Balls.
The only reason Porunga, the Cereal planet Dragon and Super Shenron do not have such pattern recognition is because they have not suffered negative consequences from granting wishes.
Shenron has seen so much BS happen from Dragon Ball usage before and throght the series that he barely trusts anyone that isn't associated or affiliated with the Dragon Team/Z-Warriors/the usual customers/Bulma (because she asks for insignificant things) because he sort of knows they likely are the unofficial Guardians of the Earth's Dragon Balls as in no other way would Dende/The Kami would have allowed them to continue existing (The Dragon Balls) if he didn't approve of the wishes of the people using them over and over. And to boot, they never ask for wishes with ill intentions either so the Dragon Balls are being abused just in constant usage but not in content of the wishes which I guess is ok for now.
Knowing Super's current remaking of old concepts, the Shadow Dragons (Super version) are coming and there's a long list of stupid wishes from which to justify their appearance. Bulma already has made enough wishes to make like, 7 different Six-Star Shadow Dragons with all of her cosmetic wishes through Super's off-screen happenings.
My one gripe is that Shenron being a creation of Kami would know exactly who Demon King Piccolo was, as he is literally the personification of the evil cast out of Kami.
@@EndoScorpion should he know? Shenron isnt a spawn of Kami, just something he made.
About the cosmetic wishes and the six-star balls, I'm pretty sure Kami says in Dragon Ball that the Dragon Balls are intended to be used for small wishes (like Bulma's cosmetic wishes) rather than big ones
@@DjPrimeVideos Yeah, he's more like a construct if you think about it really hard.
@EndoScorpion Shenron is like a Genie. Once summoned, the rules require him to grant a wish. However, much like a genie, he can rebel by making it confusing, overly complicated, or not giving people exactly what they want by twisting there words if they weren't specific. Pretty sure he can't just not grant a wish, even if it's someone like King Piccolo or Frieza who summons him.
Hilarious. My favorite retcon for this kind of thing: everyone in the story is just wrong most of the time, and they don't really know what's going on.
7:39 this is my head cannon for any inconsistency, Shenrons sometimes just a hater
And now they've made it explicitly canon. When he knows you're a bitch he'll literally just go "nope, one wish only".
You have a literal pirate ship cannon on your head?
@@baggelissonic No, he has a navy ship.
I think it's supposed to be implied that black magic can be resisted but white magic can't. so thus removing the bombs from the androids doesn't affect their power of lifespan, but making them human would shorten their lifespan, so turning them human is black magic and removing the bombs is white. making the daima cast younger extends their lifespan and has no bearing on their power, therefore white magic. As for namek goku not returning to earth, he's just chill like that so porunga gave him the option
Regarding the resurrection time limit, no rules were broken, Kami (and therefore the Earth Crew) lacked a fundamental understanding of the reason Shenron can't resurrect people after 1 year.
FnF explicitly shows us how Frieza has been using his vast strength of will to resist the purification process that results in reincarnation.
A normal person is reincarnated after a year in the afterlife, at which point they can no longer be resurrected because they are no longer a soul in the afterlife (presumably the Super Dragonballs could replicate the past life as a new person or find the reincarnated soul and revert them to their past life, but that's all speculation)
Goku was a special case of deceased person under no threat of reincarnation. He COULD have been resurrected after a year, but nobody knew that.
Yes, not everyone gets reincarnated, some souls keep their bodies if Enma wants them to.
Exceptionally evil souls stay in Hell a lot longer than just a year. Some fallen warriors go to the Kais. Apparently Enma made a deal with them so the warriors can serve as enforcers in case something goes wrong in the Afterlife Enma can't deal with himself.
Kami said that the wish to revive *multiple* people would only work on those who died less than a year ago. He did *not* say that the same was true for individual revivals. So as far as we know, Shenron reviving Frieza despite him being dead for more than a year wasn't against the rules. And also, that was Kami, not Dende. Dende has not said anything about a time limit for revivals so far, afaik.
Edit: Guys, this comment was to point out a flaw in the video's logic. I'm not at all trying to say that Dende's Dragon Balls work the same as Kami's, in fact I was trying to imply the opposite: that Dende's have different rules from Kami's.
Edit2: Corrected the comment to what I *actually* meant.
@@BurstFlare I guess, but I kinda got the impression it was a law of the universe or something, and like I said dende just turned kami balls back on so idk if there's that many differences
@@yurazahi think it also has to do with how long it takes to a dead person to reincarnate, since freeza was still suffering in hell he was never reincarnated and could be brought back to life anytime.
@@yurazah They may seem the same balls but work by different rules. Dende activated them for his friends while Kami did it for some grander porpouse. That is the reason the Balls are more convenient with more wishes, and less restrictions while still having security measures like 1 wish only for first timers.
@@genericogeronimo2163 thats a good point, I mention something like this in my last video, its true, showing freeza still sitting in hell was a good way to show he wont move on
@@yurazah Dende still had to supply the magical power himself, so I don't think him using the physical orbs that already existed really means anything other than skipping the process of crafting them.
Edit: Whoops, didn't see there were other replies before I typed this.
these two words can easily explain any inconsistency in the series: "toriyama forgot"
Oh naw not "araki forgot" Moment
Bruh
there's almost no inconsistency though. it's just (intentional?) ignorance and plot convenience for the sake of narrative tension.
NGL - Wishing away the saiyan's space pods is diabolically creative.
It could be a reflection of the Dragon's creator where it can shift the rules a bit based on personality and getting to know them. In the beginning, Shenron seem to be a bit neutral on wishes and just went by whatever rules were established. As time went on and he was summoned more and more, he started getting more of a personality and revealing more of what he can and can't do and sometimes shifting the rules a bit within reason (or if he was just chill with you). He's even given Piccolo more than what he asked for when unlocking his potential similar to Porunga reviving Krillan with his body intact, though this could be due to Shenron and Picolo's history, but it still ties to the Dragons just being friendly in general.
As for those they don't like, the Dragons have been shown to be sassy or just trying to do things quickly to get away from them. They either get snarky with the wishes like bringing Frieza back in pieces, not telling them they have more than one wish, tell them they can't do something that they probably did before, or uphold the rules more strictly than before like with passwords or specific languages. The Black/White magic thing is in interesting reveal so who knows if that'll tie into GT related things in the future like the Black Star Dragonballs.
At least they still give warnings when someone's wish comes with complications like if someone would be revived in space if the planet they were on was destroyed.
It was fun seeing Shenron's reaction to Beerus in Super, or when he realized he'd be waiting a while while Goku and the gang kept arguing who's going to be making the wish.
One thing to remember about the "Only do a wish once" is that it has to be the exact same wish so anyone but Oolong can just wish for panties and get them and there are ways Oolong could wish for more panties as he could wish for a different color panties, or someone's specific panties. The wish for youth would work for anyone but king Piccolo. Ect.
the wish at the end of the Cell games didn't work on Goku because it was "everyone on Earth killed by Cell" Goku died on King Kia's planet which is why he wasn't brought back as well much to his anoyment.
Beside even if it could work in goku that time he could choose that he wasnt going to be revived, he is stronger that Dende so he could negate wished targeting him.
I guess the idea is supposed to be that the wish to turn them isn’t kids isn’t technically an “attack.”
It’s a wish for youth after all, and so slips through.
I thought he was just floating in space in pieces sense his cybernetics kept him alive.
It is incredibly funny to make a video called “no one understands the dragonballs” and to repeatedly misunderstand the dragon balls throughout.
Daima's logic for the wish makes sense. It was never said directly that the dragon cannot affect targets stronger than his creator, and we know for a fact this isn't the case as Goku's consent wasn't asked for in the Saiyan Saga, the dragon simply revived him. Same for getting the bombs out of the androids. He didn't alter completely what kind of being they were, consequently stripping them of their might. He just made a modification exclusively for their benefit that required no consent.
The idea that Gohma made the Z Fighters weak by doing a "harmless" wish that does not include offensive magic is logical with the new retcon and is very clever. He didn't ask the saiyans to be offed or to have their powers directly stripped from them. White magic being introduce to distinguish good from bad wishes makes sense and it's a good inclusion.
The dragons are not tricksters, so they fulfill wishes as intended instead of going by exact wording.
@@schwarzerritter5724 except on frieza
I hate that they're not actually children. They're just super deformed, mini versions of themselves. All the potential of them actually being kids and equalized in power and having to grow again together is gone.
did you not watch dragon ball? i suppose piccolo is more of a teen but they're not equalized in power and never will. that's what dragon ball fighters is for.
Daima probably will be a relatively short anime, and that idea would just feel rushed if they squeezed it in.
Also, Vegeta was a monster with 10k battle power as a child and Goku only had like 100. It wouldn't make much sense.
@@JimBimBum But that's precisely the potential I was hoping could have been done in Daima. It would have been a very fun way to do that. If any show could have broken the status quo, it was Daima, but instead they're just the same. They haven't changed at all.
Good that sounds awful. Reseting character progression for 20 episodes would have been a drag.
Also they wouldn't have "equalized power" Vegeta was stronger than everyone else when he was a kid by a lot, so that idea just straight up doesn't work, Vegeta would have just take over the planet.
This subject is probably one of the most contentious and misunderstood parts of the Dragon Ball series. Here is the scene:
3:07
Fans have interpreted this as meaning that Shenron cannot revive anyone who’s been dead for more than a year. But that not really the case. What Kami is actually saying is that when reviving large groups of people - such as Nappa and Vegeta’s countless victims - Shenron is limited to those who have died in the past year.
Case in point, Kaio tells Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu, that since Shenlong used to revive Freeza’s victims this time, they will have to wait an extra year for their turn. There’s no mention of a “one-year time limit”, because their group is small enough that it isn’t an issue. Not that it matters in the latter two’s case. Shenlong can’t grant the same wish twice and Chaozu’s already used his get-out-of-death-free card, and Tenshinhan would rather stay dead than leave Chaozu behind.
So, it wasn’t a plot hole or a retcon when Freeza was resurrected in DBZ Movie 15 and Dragon Ball Super.
But why was he revived chopped into tiny cubes and still be able to survive and be recomposed?
huh, I'll hold the L on this one
@capofantasma97 because Freeza is ridiculously tough, hanging out in pieces in space, being basically fine after Broly beat on him for an hour. There's a reason Trunks blasted him after chopping. He probably would have died shortly but they got him into the tank pretty fast.
@@specialnewb9821 that's one way to rationalize plot holes 🤣
@@capofantasma97 He's just built different
I think the reason why in super the hero's started mentioning there's a "Password" is so that the bad guys who dont know any better just dont make the wish right away. It's a bluff.
Yeah it's 100% a bluff. The only dragon where this isn't a bluff on is porunga but that's only because you have to speak namekian. Other than that though the inconsistencies can't be explained other than author forgot. But I don't really find that an issue just like the video creator doesn't. Minor plot holes that don't ruin the feelings the story is meant to convey are fine after all. It's moreso when things are blatant enough to catch in real time or just lead you to convey a different emotion upon reflection that they become a problem.
@DemiSupremi don't forget the super dragon balls where you have to speak in a "divine tongue"
@goldenascension8635 thats super dragon balls. Im talk about earth.
@@HeWhoPwnsNoobs Ah. My apologies, I was responding to the other guy, I agree with your points.
@goldenascension8635 oh whoops, that's my bad, I just now noticed that you were replying to him. When I see a UA-cam notification I always think it's directed towards me
I'd argue the bombs are an external mechanism BUT from what Super explained, the anfroids are also genetically enhanced to the cellular level as well, so it's not just the mechanical parts it's the fact their cells are super strong too.
There's a reason why GT had to use Ultimate Dragon Balls to make Goku into a child.
The Granola one is probably only possible for very powerful people. Gas and Granola are both incredibly strong, and Gas’ higher base strength causes his wish to supersede Granola’s (or that’s because the wish was made with Granola in mind, who knows). It’s like a more extreme potential unlock: all of the power you will ever have (over the course of 150 years) is condensed into 3 years, then your potential is unlocked, and then you are given a variety of special magical and spirit control based techniques (something similar to Hakai, some planet energy attacks, Instant Transmission, etc). The wish is basically just optimizing the shit out of someone’s natural abilities, giving then additional abilities, and then basically killing them in order to get a short burst of power. That all seems reasonable to me
Gas's wish resulted into some sort of magically mandated ability that forced the effects of the wish to continuously apply to him whenever someone overtook him in power (or he became weaker from fighting), which is very, very strange, as Granolah obviously didn't get anything like that, so I can only really assume it worked that way as a side effect of the wish attempting to overcome Granolah's.
@@Estra_Estra Or Elec specifically added that to his wish
No, Gas wish is to be ALWAYS THE STRONGEST, while Granolah only wished to be the strongest AT THAT MOMENT.
Wording made the two wishes different as Gas will always be forced to get stronger by aging him up whenever he gets surpassed, which is why Gas didn't die from being donuted by Freeza, but from the wish attempting to make him stronger than Black Freeza by making Gas even older which killed Gas as he doesn't have enough spare Lifespan to give up to reach Black Freeza's Level.
@@Estra_EstraDifferent wording
@@fg009letyrds8 your statements are nothing but headcanons kiddo. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think when it comes to the time limit, I think Moori and Dende, being newer, are much less willing to bend the rules while Kami has chilled out after a few hundred years on earth and is willing to make an exception once in a while.
Alternatively, being relatively novices compared to Kami, they just don't know how to do that.
@@PosthumanHeresy That would also be inline with most of the young gods not really having a clue how to fulfil their roles.
I love the spirit bomb animation at 7:00 so much haha 😂❤
Granola's wish didn't made him the strongest, his wish unlocked his theoretical potential in exchange for his lifetime (I know is a bad explanation but only like that would make sense that Gas keeps beating Granola by a lot)
Granola wished to become the strongest in the universe at the cost of sacrificing most of his lifespan. Gas then made the same wish later with most likely the same consequences, which caused him to exceed Granola's power. It's not that complicated.
Watching this after Diana Episode 2 had Shenron claim first-timers only get 1 wish while the 3 wish rule only applies to the Z Fighters.
And pilaf lol
@@AloneSmGGhes done ot twice
Nepotism
@@yanim8s350 I know so he would get 3 wishes by shenrons logic
Toronbo isn't a cursed dragon. Sacrificing nearly the entirety of your lifespan to catch up to Goku and Vegeta makes sense, as A) their power was obtained through a life time of dedicated training, and B) Saiyans have a BS handicap in the form of Zenkai boosts. Their power increases dramatically in accordance with how much stress they place their bodies under. So in order to exceed that power, somebody wishing to become stronger than them must also have to pay a hefty price.
It similar to the hyperbolic time chamber. You are still aging even if time is moving more slowly.
What happens if start training for 10 years but die in the chamber. That's the risk reward.
@@ultimasurge The hypersonic lion tamer?
@@diablo.the.cheater Lmao abriged is peak comedy =3
@@ultimasurge how is abridged peak comedy? They took something that already existed and then injected memes that already existed into the writing and dialogue. Defiantly creative, but saying that it's above the talent of people who just make their humor from the nebula is quite manipulative.
@@sidcomegys4154 Because it is endlessly entertaining , and everything in humanity is sourced from something that exists.
but this wasn't done in bad faith. Parody and mimicry is a compliment to the original work. The type of manipulation that i supposedly am engaging in isn't in the type of connotation you seem to be accusing me off. But what do you mean manipulative. i was only being congratulatory and sharing agreement with the person replying to me?
if you dont like abridged you can just say so.
The Dragon Balls are really a case study of why you should NEVER introduce a wish granting ability in your setting.
To answer the question you asked. Getting a disease is considered a natural death if you die from it. I think it's stated somewhere that Goku couldn't come back to life with the dragon balls because of the heart virus killing him. As for Shenron not granting the same wish twice I think that was on an individual level. If I asked for a chocolate cake then asked Shenron to make you a chocolate cake they would technically be different wishes.
I also believe Shenron just has a weird thing where he can't affect people stronger than his creator unless they're willing. This is why Shenron couldn't revive Goku after Cell. Porunga says the same after Namek when they try to bring Goku back to Earth but Goku wasn't willing to leave yadrat so Porunga couldn't grant their wish.
The androids not beinf turned back to human could have a better explanation of they are already human, just enhanced humans, where their bombs are not a natural part of the body and thus can be removed with them being willing.
My guess is Porunga couldn't initially bring back more than one person because the thought of mass death tragedies didn't occur to the peaceful Namekians. After Frieza, they were smart enough to give the next iteration the ability to bring back multiple people.
I like ur video and background music
To be fair for the Frieza wish, Kami's explanation is pretty vague. In the arc, the question of the Dragon Balls' range comes up a couple of times, with people wondering if they'd be able to affect people in a far off planet, and although it's concluded and later shown that yes, that is within their capabilities, you can see how Kami is taken aback at the proposition of making a universe wide wish, and while he explains the one year stipulation in response, it's clearly not because it's something he'd normally consider. Furthermore, the example wish (and the actual one with Frieza's forces), by default, revolve around reviving multiple people, and as we see with the original Namekian Dragon Balls being incapable of doing that, as well as Dende's version requiring two wishes to make it possible, we can see that that's a hard bargain to start with.
And so, while the actual mechanics of it aren't plainly communicated, and I'm not actually sure what we were meant to gleam from Kami's comment, it does seem like "revive everyone ever killed by (x) everywhere" is supposed to be a pretty out there wish that's pushing the boundaries of what the Dragon Balls could do, and so maybe for that reason it requires some sort of limitation for it to stay physically possible. You know, maybe.
It could be that reviving someone who's been dead for more than a year is itself an instance of a particularly difficult wish, and thus can't viably be stacked with the additional condition of applying to a group, or, perhaps the range issue would also need to come into play before being ruled out. You would think that'd similarly make it cost two wishes to be granted by Dende's balls though? Which definitely wasn't the case for Frieza, so, guess it still might not work for RoF/Super after all.
As for the natural causes thing, we immediately see upon the rule's introduction that Guru could still be brought back for a time, since his condition was made worse due to his environment. That shows the rule is pretty lax, and makes one wonder when it's actually relevant or why Toriyama wrote it into the series at all, but I figure the rationale is that if your natural state is resulting in your death, then it wouldn't make sense for the Dragon Balls to do anything by reverting your death, since you'd just like, be back to square one and instantly die again. Clearly wishing someone back doesn't revert aging, and... Huh, I'm not sure what would happen to the microorganisms in your body after a trip through the afterlife, do they count as part of you if they co-exist in balance with your body? I mean, I don't think they uh, have souls in Dragon Ball, and it'd be real strange if everyone had a completely clean slate upon revival, right? That sounds like it'd be... unhealthy? I was just gonna say that I assumed Goku would keep the heart virus if he was revived in the future timeline, but unexpectedly I stumbled my way into opening Pandora's Box of inanity. I'm not even done, actually, because ironically, if revival DID rid Goku of his disease, it would ultimately be beneficial if in the three years before the androids he somehow died then was brought back to life, you know, in a sort of really fucked up way.
Oddly enough, Granolah's wish is the most clear cut thing I'm gonna mention here, and it's one of Super's better uses of the Dragon Balls in my opinion. I think the completely absurd leap in power right from the beginning coupled with a refusal to make Goku and Vegeta far beyond the level of any new fighters that would ever show up (since that would suck ass for a battle shounen) is a problem in its own right, and characters like Jiren casually (out)matching everyone without anything observaly special about them or even a drop of God Ki in their arsenals (Toppo uses it and he's not even his universe's strongest guy!) serve to make everything before them look meaningless in a way that, impressively, the original DB never could...
BUT. Having said that... _Since_ other fighters do regularly put up a fight against the main cast without much of a justification, that is now the manner in which the series consistently operates, and, under that light, Granolah needing to spend pretty much his entire life training, under magically ordained optimal conditions, while possessing an outstandingly long lifespan, JUST to reach Goku and Vegeta's level... is actually pretty charitable. After all, since the wish condenses all that time he would normally spend training into an instant, it would presumably be far more efficient than any ordinary form of training, as it implies those 150 years of getting stronger involved literally no other activity ever besides presumably resting (if, even that? It is magic), meanwhile any other person would have to, you know, do other stuff, even outside their downtime and rest periods. Jiren (he's the key example, really) on the other hand didn't have none of that, he simply trained normally (in the anime it's even implied he did it alone...?) and just sort of got that strong anyway. With no transformations. No God Ki. Just 'cause.
tl;dr: idk man they write whatever they feel like in the moment
One rule that was introduced in the King Piccolo saga and discarded later, was the "body has to be (mostly) intact for ressurection" rule.
Maybe instead of a lot of rules they could go with just 2 conditions: "If the dragon is powerful enough to do it and if the dragon considers that it's a reasonable wish"
0:32 IS THAT DOTODOYA!? 🤣
yes
no rhy
That’s clearly SeeReax
@@MoreThanAGam3r true
I like to think that because the Namekians had their set of DB’s for a longer time and treated them like holy objects, they didn’t experiment with them at all. Meanwhile Kami had to make a set of his own and figure out how they work by himself so he must have done a ton of experimentation with them. Also explains why Dende wouldn’t know how to do the things that Kami could.
7:55 - The one-year limitation was specifically only for wishes where a large quantity of people are being revived. Kami says if there are too many people being wished back, SHenron's powers only extend to a year. Basically to explain why the Frieza wish wouldn't bring back the Saiyans lol
I remember several times where Shenron was clearly confused/irritated, so I’m not surprised that he would have agency.
Password for earth shenron exists. To make him come out you need to say the specific phrase, which on Japanese sounds like "ideo shenron, kanae tamae" and is usually translated as "come, shenron and fulfill my wishes"
pretty sure the password is EYY yo shenron bust outtah dem balls
@@Luluthebluemoon 😂😂😂
I remember reading a quote from Toriyama saying the Dragon Balls are comparable to a computer for us. A computer can do things which far exceeds a human, like doing calculations in an instant or rending 3D environments, etc. But a computer is still limited in what it can do based on who made it. Same concept for Dragon balls. Which I think is a cool way to look at it.
I genuinely thought the dragon balls' power was limitless (besides some absurd requests being outside shenron's power). I had no idea about the double wishing rule. that's crazy
obligatory "but what about GT??"
they explain that the dragon balls can be "configured" to do different things, but will have external side-effects
a more powerful set of "ultimate" dragon balls or "black star dragon balls" can make any wish that overwrite the will of someone more powerful, but will cause a calamity on the planet
that does line up with how Torombo works by taking away your remaining life
and as for Shenron being able to remove the bombs but not turn them back into humans? I THINK is because Dende could heal but not outright revive someone, or like a surgery can take out a tumor compared to reverting a cancer
idk if that fixes all of the contradictions, but I do like the attempt!
Well that turning 18 human was technically before she was retconned into being a cyborg. So at the time it did make sense that he couldnt turn a robot into something with a soul
@@iananderson4754 now they are calling dubbing errors "retcon" too?
@@iananderson4754 but seriously, that';s not it, they could "revive" 17 even though he was still inside cell when he exploded, but they were still androids, and yes, that happened in the original series
it's likely that they were teenagers around the saiyan saga, but stopped aging because they were turned into androids, or because the stasis pods they were stuck inside for years, or a combination of both
so is very likely shenron was not capable of reverting the effect of being android for who knows how long, but removing a bomb is much easier than reverting a body and all that, bulma and dr brief done to 16, but I don't think they could have done it to 17 and 18, and even if they could, krillin would not be thinking that right at that moment when the magic god dragon was unable to turn then back into humans, so he probably try to think the next best thing on the spot, just so they don't waste an extra 3rd wish after only having 1 wish prior
@Kate_Hanami I know about the artificial human being the original name. It's just that doesn't really say cyborg in any meaningful way. Don't take me as some casual who never actually watched the show.
they had to bring in the over a year death retcon cuz they were literally just about to ressurect the entire saiyan race otherwise cant have a superman reference without that.
before they retconned gokus backstory for no reason I doubt it was a superman reference
Shenron can effect people stronger than his creator, but they get to choose whether or not to be effected, perhaps subconsciously. The androids didn't want to be humans again, they liked being superhuman. But they were plenty fine to no longer have explosives implanted in them, so that wish was granted
I believe the reason for the year time limit in canon is that the afterlife takes after Buddhism in that reincarnation occurs and most souls become purified and placed in new bodies within a year so after that point you would be effectively killing somebody to bring someone else back. Frieza gets to be an exception as he refused to get purified despite his literal hellish torture so he was still around. And also a virus does in fact count as natural causes as it was stated that in the ruined future, they couldn’t wish back Goku after his death from the heart virus since it was natural causes.
The year limit on revival is definitely more a multi res thing than individual revival, Goku was dead for a whole year after all and he was brought back to life.
Someone actually theorized that with the year limit the rule may be in place because of stuff like reincarnation in universe. Imagine wishing back your significant other.. and some random person's baby suddenly dying because their soul is back with the previois body.
"I wish for what I would wish for if I knew the best wish to make!"
5:40 No matter how one is grouped, being revived again counts as the same wish. Otherwise they would just say revive those killed by the Saiyans to bring back everyone since they never made that exact wording to revive them, undermining their use of Porunga for that instead. For another example, Yamcha goes first against the Saiyans because Kuririn cannot be wished back. If Kuririn did die, and they wished back everyone killed by the Saiyans, Kuririn would still not be revived (since if he was, Yamcha's point is moot, which the story does not seem to support) Just a quirk of what constitutes the "same" wish, albeit, I agree it is clunky, but yes that means Goku cannot be revived alongside other Cell victims. Also, it is not that people cannot be brought back after a year, it is mass group revival limits to only those killed in the last year, so Freeza is fine. They actually planned on reviving Goku after a year when they wanted to kill the Saiyans, and no one saw a problem with that beyond the fact that the wish could not be granted (other similar instances of potentially holding off revivals also exist, just hammers in the point it is only for mass revivals).
6:40 Probably more so Toriyama changed his mind since having access to the creator undermines the stakes even more, but an in-universe rationale is that it was reset early due to God resetting the statue, and it would be reckless to constantly recharge said statue.
9:10 It is not literally a trade of life-force for power. It is trading the amount of time it would have taken to get to that point, sort of. Goku got to that level with training, so yes, people could match it with their own training, and the wish just did so immediately, give or take. That is also how Granolla has more than just power, but various new techniques as well.
9:28 Gas did not make the same wish. Granolla asked to be the strongest at that moment. Gas's was to always be the strongest, continuously. This means the trade is constantly in effect if someone more powerful appeared, eventually aging him near-death. Might be considered distinct enough.
10:06 The incantation is the password (calling Shenlong's name). If all seven are gathered and Shenlong is not requested for, nothing happens. It is admittedly a very simple password. Everyone on Earth already knows it since it is part of the legend. Not canon, but I believe it is also called a password in the second Broli movie, or close enough.
10:15 Whilst I agree the magic classification does not justify it, one could say that Neba empowered Shenlong when he forced it off cool-down, so it essentially has the power of two Gods instead of one, and that might be what bypasses the power limitation. Neba even says he could not pull off that same feat again in the next episode, suggesting some of his power went into it.
On the "dead for more then a year" thing, that's said about to wish to revive everyone friezia and his men had killed which was *alot* that is in reference to that wish, so in general it could revive someone who had been dead for that long, it was just the number of revives that was the issue.
Just to be a bit more clear on the Granolah Wish.
Granolah gave up 150 years of his life and in exchange, Toronbo would give him all of the power and techniques he could have possibly trained to get in 150. Anything he possibly could have trained to attain in 150 years, he was given in exchange for that time.
I'm pretty sure Toronbo stated that Granolah will never become the strongest in the universe under normal circumstances, even if he trained for his entire life. What he did was condense a massive portion of Granolah's lifespan into pure power to make the wish come true.
It’s likely Shenron lost the ability to grant multiple wishes once Dende was made an infant.
We need a fan story where Dragonball remained consistent with its rules and lore!
i think one version of dende sum it up best
dende : It's a magical wish-granting dragon, Nail
Ok I think I can make a theory.
Thing is db cast hold and suppress their power whenever they're not in combat situation hence dropping their power lvl below the margin needed to resist wishes or reality wrapping.
As we saw even throughout the series charecter always holds in their ki which drops their stats.
Even in cell saga they mentioned it .
Bro that sounds like cheating with extra steps
@@God-T yup .
That's an interesting idea, wishes being like Sorbet's laser gun. However, Saiyans in stasis sleep in space should definitely have their guard down(is it the armor????)
@@Supahdenning during sorbet laser gun .
Goku was exhausted of ki so yeah his stats are down .
As for stasis sleep.
That depends if they interfered with their ki .
Like did they lowered themselves down or did they just let it normal .
For example how during kid Goku time he doesn't have much control over his ki and bullets barrages are bouncing off of him while as an adult he supressed himself thus the bullet was able to graze him in super .
Mostly theories . Feels free to disagree.
@@abhijeetgolder7535 SSJ Goku in the Cell Saga was hurt by a rock while laying in the grass. Was he resting or actively suppressed?
there is sort of an unmentioned vibe of Shenron being a benevolent genie, so it's possible repeat wishes are "rules lawyered" because he's a Lawful Good kind of character he seems to legitimately want the good guys to succeed but still has to grant wishes to anyone who manages it. That also makes sense why he'd leave Frieza in a bundle of horrible chunks.
I personally thought of it that Shenron only granted one wish (initially) but could multi-target though with the restriction that each wish could only be granted once. So, if you wished to “bring back everyone that just died on earth”, it would be like numerous wishes being granted, each to revive a person. The restriction would prevent the resurrection of anyone that Shenron had resurrected before. So, perhaps everyone who just died would be revived except Krillin because he had been revived before by Shenron.
Then Porunga would grant 3 wishes but with no multi-target but with no repeated wish restriction. So, you could bring the same person back to life repeatedly, but you could only bring back one person at a time with him and thus would be limited by the number of wishes at any one time.
I have never read nor known the manga, but I’ve seen the anime before (though it’s been a while). So, these were my interpretations based on what they said in the anime and what I subsequently saw.
I kind of like the two dragon’s power sets being different than each other’s in that way. It makes each more useful in some situations. Shenron can affect more people at once, Porunga’s wishes are themselves less restrictive.
I like it anyway.
It was nice to hear more background on how the wishes work.
By Resurrection F, Dende has been Earth's guardian for years, so he probably did modify the rules. Also in the movie they only got 2 wishes, so maybe reviving someone who has been dead for a while is similar to reviving a large amount of people.
You know what could be a good next video? All the times the could had fix everything just using logic and the dragon balls, like when "Future Kaio" could had talked to the namekians and ask for vegeta and the other to be revived.
I want to see some filler where they wish for Shenron to be just some dude for a day so he can have a fun time or something. He's doing all the heavy lifting in the series and gets no love.
Yes. The way I see it - they wanted to act like the wish could be interpreted as beneficial like youth restoration which the dragon has done before. So Gomah exploits this loophole to weaken the Z fighters and their friends.
Kami, the og, might just have a special technique to wake his dragon.
Or at least that's my excuse, dragon clan probably has some skills they train and specialize in.
"BEHOLD, THE ANCIENT TECHNIQUE PASSED DOWN THE DRAGON CLAN FOR THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS:
THE *SACRED* CLAY MOLDING TECHNIQUE!"
I just like to imagine most of these rules are made up by Shenron whenever he just doesn't want to do something
Its been my head canon that there is an additional unspoken rule where the creator of a set of dragon balls/wish orbs can't wish upon their own set. I think there have been times where Dende has woken Shenron up but others made the wishes.
Sheron's explanation on who gets to have 3 wishes is a similar concept of principle that is used by lenders, such as banks or insurance companies, when lending sums of money to consumers based on credit score.
So I think it works as a good explanation.
10:00 Everyone after Frieza keeps researching the "password" makes sense because the only parties doing the research are aware of or encountered the Namek dragon balls first.
Earth's Dragon Balls are not commonly known
Earth Shenron's password is the same as having the code lock on your luggage being "12345" and not expecting people to decode the lock and steal everything you had in it.
I always thought that the "Cool down" timer was for the dragonballs to passively recharge themselves, that the creator could repower them, but at some unseen cost.
Regarding the "one-year dead rule", I think that it might have to do with the "soul passing on" or a rule by King Yemma. Those allowed to "keep their bodies", maybe are exempt to the rule, this might explain why Goku being dead for almost a year at the start of DBZ wasn't at risk of remaining dead. This could also explain why "Freiza's soul didn't crossover and he remained in Hell."
I think that not only does the rule of natural causes apply to Shenron and viruses, but I think it was specifically introduced to explain why Trunks' future was a thing and why they couldn't revive Goku when he died of the heart virus before Piccolo and thus Kami died, rendering the dragon balls inert.
I think the thing with the Androids is that they were already humans. Gero didn't "create" 17 and 18, they're just ordinary humans that he kidnapped and enhanced. So Shenron couldn't turn them into something that they already are, but he can remove their bombs.
Dragonball UA-camrs trying not to say you don't understand this Level IMPOSSIBLE
0:38 I can't help but think that the way they've decided to portray Shenron in daima is by giving him his own personality and things he want and don't want to do, like it genuinely seemed to me like he was specifically trying to not do something bad to those who he have met and helped many times previously.
Frieza being revived I can explain by saying maybe it takes a year to cleanse and reincarnate a soul but since frieza refused to be cleansed and reincarnated he got to circumvent the 1 year rule
In the case of Toronbo granting the same wish twice, I feel like it is the case of who is the chosen target. As Granolah wished to become the strongest in the universe with his wish, he is specifically wishing "I (Granolah) to become the strongest", in Elec's wish he wanted Gas to become the strongest in the universe making the wish state "Gas becomes the strongest in the universe.
In this case they are making different wishes because who is being targeted by specifications of the wish are different. This is why multiple people could say I wish for eternal youth because the wish isn't specifically " I want eternal youth", it's more likely taken as " King Piccolo wishes for Eternal Youth".
Dont forget...Bulma has been using the DB...A LOT! for stuff like, tighten up her butt, remove wrinkles...multiple times.
7:38 Well Freeza did slaughter the Namekians.
1. I think the no reviving a person more than once rule is a retcon replacing the 'I can't Grant the same wish twice rule'.
2. As for the inconsistency in the rule of not reviving someone after a year. The way I interpreted the rule was specifically affecting reviving groups of people that has been dead over a year that follow the same conditions as you asked to revive. For example in the freeza saga they specifically asked to revive people who been deleted by Frieza and his men. If the rule was not implemented it would revive a huge roster of people. Including all the people Frieza and his army has destroyed throughout the existence of the freezer Force. Even reviving people who died on destroyed planets such as the Saiyans basically leaving them to float and parish. With this in mind and the evidence of Frieza being revived even though he's been gone for over a year I honestly think the rule only applies for Mass revival.
I always just tell myself that the rules changed more than the plot tells us when then Dende took over as guardian. And they keep it vague so that they can kinda play it by ear, kinda like how shenron powers up Piccolo in the latest movie.
I suspect that the dragonball cooldown is more of a safety feature. It can be bypassed, but probably with possible consequences. Perhaps using them too frequently puts strain on them. The idea that overuse built up negative energy in GT was a cool concept, and something like that could easily be made canon in future Dragonball products
I always assumed you can't make the same wish twice per wish session.
6:10 My headcanon is that this is the case - the Androids subconsciously wanted the bombs removed, so the wish was granted. However, this would imply that he can read someone’s deepest thoughts. That said, it might be possible since his wishes seem to align with what someone truly desires, without twisting them in the malicious way that evil djinns often do in other fantasy stories (unless they dont like person making the wish I guess).
i honestly just think Shenron can just do that because the bombs arent realy even parts of their body or are vital to their life in any way so it thecnicaly dosent count as affecting them and thus those realy count as needing the consent, dont think they should even notice the bombs being gone realy, what im saying might just be bs tho
The way I saw it was thus: You can overwrite someone's will but you have to WANT to overwrite it. What the Dragon is doing can't be something that directly causes harm. It's like how Goku could decline being resurrected and his friends respected his decision instead of just forcing it on him. But they also can't wish for someone to be hurt, injured, nor killed.
Wishing for someone to be a child might not fall under direct harm for Shenron.
It's also possible that the androids use a different kind of energy that doesn't afford them the same kind of protection as ki does, since they can't be detected by scouter or power level sensing (at least 19 and 20, I don't remember for sure if 17 and 18 are also undetectable but I believe they are).
@@togeluga_the_cat Exactly. Shenron explained this in the story. He can't turn 17 and 18 human since it would completely change their physical state, but he can remove the bombs since it is not essential to their function.
Doesn’t it literally just say he can do it since it doesn’t affect there power in any way removing the bomb doesn’t make make them stronger or weaker or anything else
I always interpreted the no same wish rule as being "you cant get the same effect twice" so if a person dies and is wished back then dies with a group that one person won't be revived because that would result in essentially the same wish twice
There’s a reason why the lore keeps getting forgotten: they aren’t hiring fans to keep it alive and consistent
it is possible that, the cooldown timer isnt a feature, but a purpose limitation, if i remember correcly all the times the balls came back, they havent realized a wish before, but just lost their power, it is possible that the cooldown timer is sorta the dragon ball reuniting their power again after being used, but the creator can shock them back if he uses his ki insted, thought that would likely be a burden, thought in the end, the dragons balls are just a plot device.
5:35 that's how I understand it though, that it was more about bringing back the same person twice, not about restricting wishing for panties two+ times
Some thoughts from me:
3:52 For me it reads like this particular wish has a "wait, I have to to ask him first" restriction on the "move a person" wish.
Not a issue that came up before, because everyone else was _okay_ being brought to earth.
But Goku expected a Dragon Call and probably thought this through in the half year before.
6:31 Apparently Kami was more experienced at handling the balls and thus was the only one that could reset them early?
Or that was a feature Dende had to cut, because of the wish count increase? He was clearly working with a limited budget here, given the "multi rez counts as two" limitation.
7:57 Who says Dende can't fine tune them after the Cell Saga? Or after Buu?
He probably takes them "offline for a day for sheduled maintenance", while no plot is happening. Or is just able to work that in during the regular cooldown.
8:08 Super Shenron undid Zeno's _Universe Erasure_
That is some _very_ busted power. But it is likely he had both Zeno's consent when doing it, so not sure if he really is stronger then Zeno.
8:45 You misread. That was "increase your power up to your latent potential" plus "compress a 150 years worth of your full power into 3 years". Apparently that combination was just about enough.
9:23 "Make Gas the strongest in the universe" and "Make Granolah the strongest in the Universe" are clearly different wishes. Right there in the subject part of the sentence!
If they count as the same wish, then so would "Bring back Bora" and "Bring back Goku". Something that clearly is not true.
10:00 The password is very clearly, "Rise Eternal Dragon", "Rise Shenron", "Dragon Arise" or a variant of those.
Not the best password. You can probably brute force it or say it by accident. But it is _technically_ a password. And bringing the balls together was never enough to get a wish.
I think the "beyond my power" in the Android case is less "I am too weak" and more "I don't have enough gas left." After all, the wish to revive everyone leaves him with a single wish, in truth its probably less than that.
And maybe the period time of the dragons turning to stone is simply a necessity for them to rest.
The can’t revive someone who has bin died for over a year was removed with the addition of him having three wishes
I always interpreted the 1 year rule to be how long it takes for a soul to reincarnate. The Manga afterlife has no hell and just has reincarnation. Thus, to revive a reincarnated person you have to kill their new self and so Shenron refuses killing a baby. But, Freeza refused to reincarnate and was thus still available to be brought back. That's personally why I felt they specifically mention he refused to reincarnate, to establish why he's an exception.
Couple notes: Future Trunks says that Goku can't be revived because death by virus is a natural death, and Dende says Porunga can bring back people any number of times, suggesting there is no limit on granting the same wish multiple times.
You said it. "The plot demands it". There's no such thing as hard rules in Toriyama's world and people who go around looking for them are the ones that don't understand
Actualy Daima explanation fit in some way in canon, it seems Dragon have bigger power if he grant wish that benefit someone, He didn't need agreement to remove bomb from androids, because he was doing something what benefit them, The only situation when this is contradicted was when Goku refused to be sent home, but I think that was only because Goku know Shenlong and he instantly refused when he sensed him, we see couple times that your relation with dragon change a lot. So I think Dragon can grant any wish that benefit someone stronger than his creator, but can't grant any wish that would harm someone stronger than his creator. Example: Dragon can bring to live someone stronger (I guess if this someone would know the Dragon he could still refuse, let's say if Goku would want to stay on King Kai planet for aome reason, because of this relation it couldn't be done), Dragon can grant someone stronger power, imortality etc. etc., Dragon can't make someone stronger, older/weaker etc.
I think the thing is that there were so many versions of the dragon balls, earth's dragonballs being different from Namek's, then different iterations of earth's dragon balls being different from previous ones, and don't get me started on other types of dragonballs in Super and GT and so on. That makes things so confusing that yeah the creators will be so inconsistent that the rules will be what they need them to be at the moment. Especially Shenron giving different rules Daima depending on who's making the wish is a yet new thing that will now open a whole new world of wiggle room, that (besides limitations of what the dragon CAN do) it's ultimately the dragon's *decision* how many wishes he wants to grant, what kinds, and so on - a good chunk of the limitations is artificially, consciously imposed (which makes sense as a failsafe against abuse, which the characters totally do anyway, like the whole gag with Bulma using Shenron as her personal beautician rationalising that she does it to prevent bad guys from being able to use them, etc.)
When it comes to Toriyama just not giving a shit about consistency, I'm just gonna point out Trunk's hair.
that was toei's mistake, bumlas hair was supposed to be purple like trunks, but the decided to make trunks blue aswell to be consistent, even if i think its a weird choice
the thing with rules is absurdly simple: retconning
toriyama just changed the rule in Z because thats just how he is
72k views but 3.5k subs is criminal. Hope that changes soon!
The black/white magic thing is just a theory of Daima who just assumes that's how the dragon works, it doesn't necessarily mean it works like that and given they were in a hurry they just tried that wish instead of wasting time figuring out what can work or not
The wish itself being able to be granted is still a plothole, but I'll give DB Daima a passa since so far it's been pretty good
I think the wording of the one year revival restriction means it only applies to group revivals. But that a person who was dead more than a year can still be revived if the whole wish is used to bring just that one person back.
3:07 people misunderstand the rule about people being dead for over a year. Thats only for large vague groups of people. So in the buu saga, they could wish Zarbon, or the ginyu force. But if they wish to "bring back everyone vegeta has killed," it would be only those at the tournament and pui pui. Not everyone he killed throughout his entire life. That's what that restriction means. So bringing back frieza was not a contradiction.