Honestly, I'd take my digital piano over 90% of most acoustic pianos. As most acoustic pianos sound horrible in comparison. Granted most acoustic pianos have a better feel.
@@toddfarkman2177 I own the Yamaha P-515 ($1600) and it sounds better than any acoustic I could afford and many I couldn't. The C6 feels better but it costs as much as a new car.
@@cisium1184 Yep. When it comes to ePianos, the real issue is key response, not sound. My epiano sounds amazing but i literally have to plan to play keys toward the ends because the fulcrum makes the keys stiff at the tops. If you play classical, it's an issue.
I have played for years, and I could tell right away which was digital and which was acoustic. Thanks for that demonstration. Nothing beats the real thing unless you are tight on budget and space.
You are comparing a 500$ one. Go up the price to a 2000-3000$ class kawaii, roland or casio then you will actually barely hear the difference. Well kawaii probably has the best sampling. While roland is more modulated. Go a little further into the hybrids then you probably won't hear a difference at all.
@@sagnikmaulik Agreed, the P45 isn't exactly the best sampled piano. But if you use high quality microphones in your comparison, more skilled players will still notice the difference. Because sampled is still sampled. It's difficult engineering duplicating the response of playing an expensive acoustic.
I think "tight on budget" is understating it a bit. I don't know anyone with enough spare cash lying around to put car/house money down on an instrument. Pretty much everyone I know can afford or already owns a pretty convincing sounding keyboard. I love that the technology has brought that within the reach of far more people now.
I thought the same as well. I'm pretty sure the reason is that the second passage has far more notes being sustained at the same time, giving a much richer harmonic blend that the acoustic piano naturally creates with fewer notes.
I acquired a Yamaha P-125 electronic piano a few weeks ago. I live in a smallish Manhattan apartment and would have difficulty accommodating a full-size acoustic piano. I was a conservatory graduate in piano many years ago, and am dreaming of re-acquiring the skills I had back then. I am having no problem working on the Yamaha from a pianist's standpoint. I do not feel deprived as a musician. I am slowly re-establishing the brain-finger connections and the electronic piano is producing a sound quality sufficient to hold my determination to continue.
Really nice little concept and comparison. My wife bought me a Yamaha P45 this Fall to begin learning on and have to say I do love it. We had the room and could have afforded a conventional piano, and we almost nearly did a baby grand, but in the end I really gravitated to the space and the reduced level of commitment required by this little digital wonder, and the fact that it didn’t make such an overt statement in the house. In other words I wasn’t going to feel too guilty if I didn’t like practicing on any given day. I also love the fact that I can play wearing headphones, which by the way is a very satisfying experience, so as not to disturb her as I do my scales, and the fact that I can switch to another type of instrument (ie. electric piano, strings, or organ) to change up the feel and sound which has the added benefit of keeping my interest up while practicing. I do feel part of the perceived problem with the digital piano (P45 in this case) might just be the on board speakers which though quite adequate in a small room, sound a bit thin especially compared to the voluminous Yamaha Grand you compared it to. Headphones certainly ameliorate this issue, but I have considered adding a pair of decent powered monitors (speakers) just to have a more immersive experience when I play. Will probably do this once I’m a bit better, say in another year or so. If I do get a lot better, and am able to play real music like I hope to down the line the baby grand might still find home in our house. But until then I don’t see myself suffering from Grand Piano envy. Thanks so much for your comparison.
I have a Yamaha DGX-660. Similar to yours. About $800 cost. The major reason I want to upgrade to another digital maybe on $3000 dollars area is…….the key action. It’s night and day from a real acoustic piano. It’s far too light and as learner just 5 years in I need to change that.
Someone once described the best digital piano as the best sound coming through a speaker. But a real piano, especially a grand, really resonates. Huge difference in my opinion. And it is difficult to appreciate when heard through computer speakers.
If he line out it would sound 4 times better than via the speakers and then into UA-cam. It is an unfair way to test. The acoustic, even a bad acoustic, will out perform small speakers regardless of the quality of the sample on a digital.
Yeah the experiment was compromised before it even began, the microphone quality is bad. Run the digital piano through a VST to match the ambient sound qualities of the room the grand piano is being played in, and mix in the sound of the keys being pressed. You'll still be able to tell but at least then the quality differences can be measured.
It was always my dream to get an acoustic piano, but because we couldn't afford one, I've always practiced on a keyboard. My piano teacher has a Kawai grand piano, which I absolutely love. I have to say, there is a huge difference between them. You can feel and hear the richness of the grand piano, while the keyboard to me is much more plain in these senses.
The thing I notice between real and digital pianos is that there is lots more upper harmonics with real pianos. Although manufacturers have done a great deal with digital pianos they can't quite copy that sound. Real pianos have "attitude". If you play jazz and use closed voicings they don't sound the same on a digital piano and I've played a lot including vst instruments. I have a theory that its because the mid section of a real piano actually has three strings per note which have to be ever so slightly tuned "out" from one another to avoid "beating". this mean that when you play two notes next to one another a semi-tone apart there is actually 6 notes fighting one another. Its not an unpleasant sound but certainly has that jazzy tension built in. I have never heard this recreated on any digital piano.
I have played piano for about 50 years and teach (classical music only). The difference between the two is obvious. I could immediately tell the 1st 3 were the digital. It is a copy of a tone. So perfect each tone yes but lacks the subtle differences in harmonics, resonance, partials and sonority that an acoustic piano brings. They sing! The digital is nice but its lifeless in comparison. Also the tactile connection between the player and the instrument is lost. Its like taking a picture or video of someone compared to seeing that person in person. It is not necessary to keep a piano precisely in tune. Some beautiful sounds can be had in a piano at times if some notes are a little out of tune - but not to the point of any notes sounding dissonant of course. If you can keep your instrument at a fairly constant temperature and humidity (a tall order for where you live) the tune will hold better. My pianos (I own 5) here in southern Florida under pretty steady temperature and humidity (always under AC) hold tune a long time. By the way - you play beautifully Ed... Dan B., Boynton Beach, FL
But at the same time, some of the most beautiful and best-selling songs of all time were done on digital pianos, and millions of piano teachers own them
Yeah, the C6 sounds fuller, richer, more intimate, etc. But is the difference worth $49,500? My son is a music ed and piano performance double major and it kills me that he can't own a quality baby grand. The prices are criminal.
Your son is a student, dude. He's not the target buyer for a C6. A few years down the line, when he's got a seat in a band/orchestra and is bringing in the big bucks, he'll buy one for you to keep at your place when he visits and another at his place.
Im an astronomer and a musician. I found you through astronomy, but I love your piano vids just as much. Thank you for the great content and your virtual company.
There is a great documentary showing how Steinway pianos are made from start to finish...after you see that video, there is no question why they cost that much...absolutely amazing process
When you say the real one has a bigger fuller sound. A P-45 recorded plugged direct into the desk with the right settings and then a touch of stereo reverb it sounds a lot better than its built in speakers. I have the P45 in my home studio and it sounds great for my limited piano skills.
Possibly in this case, yes - however, if you pair a $500 midi controller with a very good piano VST like the 1955 Walker that clocks in at almost 200GB of samples, the difference would be hard to tell.
Samples are still samples. You have to realize hitting a piano key in different ways can produce different sounds. It's not just one sound. Slamming on a key, holding a key, staccato, using a pedal, etc. etc. Despite it being the same note, the keyboard has to mimic all of the sounds a real piano makes. And sampling is just a part of it.
@@toddfarkman2177 you can fit a lot of those examples into 200GB of samples if you have an entirely sampled digital piano. But I think most of the digital piano manufacturers nowadays use some kind of sound generating engine that generates the sound based on a ton of factors like the velocity they key is pressed with and how it is released. I think the real issue is that in a full-size grand piano the entire body of the piano is vibrating and generating sound. And though you can take a lot of measurements and create a very good model of how the sound is made, when it comes to reproducing it there's a limit to how close you can get with a few relatively small speakers as compared to the big frame of a grand piano creating a complex sound.
As a non-musician, the direct comparison showed a very marked difference to my ears. There's really no contest. The initial three examples, I tried to tell if there was a difference (in tone) between them, but they were all the same. Even the background sounds (the clicks of the keys?) were the same. The direct comparison again showed a marked difference in those background sounds. Very interesting comparison.
There's a certain sonority that a real piano has that is hard to replicate. Thanks for the comparison. For those folks who lack space or the means to get a true piano, they can be confident that the P45 will give them something they can enjoy and learn on.
Thank you for this. I have joined a church that only uses digital pianos. Being a classically trained pianist I can’t seem to convince them there’s a difference. They’ve been after me to play some in church and my response is always the same… “When the church buys a grand piano, I’ll play!” I’ve just sent this video to one of the ministers who asked me yet again this week to consider playing.
A year and a half after you posted this, I've finally watched it. I'm more interested in your astronomy videos, but I do play keyboards, and I've seen the C6 in the background of your videos, so I wanted to look at some of your music videos. This was the first of those. A couple of things. 1. Sample size is important. On a $500 keyboard, even today with cheap memory pricing, you're still not going to get a lot of samples or multi-samples. The manufacturer is just not going to put that kind of time and effort into a $500 piece of gear. I have a Korg PA800, marketed in 2009, and I get a better piano sound than this newer P45. But, then again, when I bought my PA800, way back in 2009, it was seven times the price of the P45. Of course, it's more than a piano, it's an arranger keyboard. 2. Yamaha is notorious for adding effects to its samples. Technically, it is supposed to make it 'sound better', particularly if you're using the speakers in a room environment, but it is not the same as a acoustic instrument in a live setting, and it makes a difference. 3. When I was selling this stuff, way back in the 1980's, the Yamaha Clavinovas were probably the best thing on the market for home digital audio, and we had a blind player come by. He thought he was listening to an acoustic piano (this was back with digital sampling first came out and all the bugs had been ironed out). He sat down to play it, and he could tell it was not a real acoustic. Yamaha worked very hard on their 'Action Express' keybed and action, and it felt really nice. But, he noticed that it wasn't an acoustic action, and that the sound, albeit good, was not that of an acoustic piano. This was a $3,000+ piano back in the late 80s, not a $500 keyboard. 4. Unless you actually play an instrument, it's difficult to tell what is real and what is digital, and today's synths are much better than what they used to be. To get an idea, may I link to you Roberto Zeolla, who plays Yamaha's new, top of the line, $6,000 arranger keyboard, the Yamaha Genos. ua-cam.com/video/eeByvuYfAYE/v-deo.html Non Dimenticar. Listen to THIS piano and compare it to the current P45 piano. See what a difference there is. Then, this video is from 2015, almost six years ago. THIS is the keyboard I want to replace my PA800 with, the Korg PA4X Pro 76 key. ua-cam.com/video/vocWSlaDcaE/v-deo.html This is an introduction to the keyboard, before it even came out. Korg has since released OS upgrades to it, which also include better samples. But, this is also a $4,600 keyboard.
Wonderful demonstration. Thank you! I had a 6ft Steinway for several years while I studied piano in my late teens. I haven't played now for almost 50 years but I recently became very interested in acquiring a digital piano and did not realize the quality of sound and capabilities. I am about to purchase one but it's been tough selecting between the Kawai and Yamaha models. They are both so fine! This time I will not be setting up standards for my playing that I cannot meet, and do not need to meet. I will be playing purely for my own enjoyment and for the pleasure of revisiting the music I grew up loving.
@@lauramayfair7887 I'm seven months into my return to piano practice. My Kawai ES110 has beautiful sound but it did develop a buzzing sound in the middle of the keyboard that I finally figured out was caused by sound vibration within the case. I had to use two large clamps to gently squeeze the case and this helps. I was not happy to have to do this. Kawai support was not of much help.
Sonically, the P-45 was not far off from an acoustic. It sounded very good! What gave it away for me was the unevenness of the playing. I could tell that the action was not very advanced because it was affecting technique and rhythm. As I'm typing this, I hear the C6. Acoustics have impurities in the sound that give it more of that humanity. Nice playing!
Ed, I totally enjoyed your video and your explanation offered as to the "why" there is the difference between the digital and the acoustic being the touch sensitivity and plastic.
I own a Yamaha P95. Today I was recording an idea for a song and because I don't have a good audio interface, I often leave the monitoring off and go with the P95's own sound and this time was no different. Once the part is recorded, a virtual piano -- much better than the P95 -- in my computer reproduces it. I was having a little problem, because even though I was depressing the pedal at each new chord, the previous chord was bleeding into the next. Then it struck me that the P95 doesn't feature sympathetic resonance, but the virtual piano does.
One thing to take into consideration here is that if you record the digital piano with a microphone instead of directly recording the line-output, the sound will always appear crappy in the recording. If you do directly record it, it will be much harder to spot for the novice which is the real piano. Particularly if your real piano is tuned well and recorded with quality microphones and correct set-up.
Interesting stuff. I only play the ukulele, but I could instantly tell the difference between the two in the second of your two test clips. So this tends to support your statement that people who play stringed instruments can tell the difference, even a ukulele!
I'm so glad other people got to hear this; not glad I did though. I'm tortured to go through time without the grand piano I used to have and forever since have tried to find something that could replicate it in a digital simulator. Well, that doesn't exist as you point out, simply because they aren't the same; how could they be? Yet, they have succeeded in the closest thing possible I guess, and since I am resigned to my Roland PF-30X, I have to love it because there isn't a choice right now. I think the acceptance of the differences makes them more tolerable, although you simply can't beat the portability and size of a digital unit. For me, I can't be without a piano of some kind; I just can't. Sure, the type does matter and it matters a lot, but to be without one completely just isn't optional, at least for me. In starting out( again), the best way is to appreciate what you have, and move up as you can as though you were walking up a hill, not climbing a mountain. Thank you for your video. Your piano is beautiful.
Though I only play a guitar, I could easily distinguish between the two, and the C6 (to me) sounds grades above the P45. Great playing and choice of pieces by the way!
I have played for over 50 years. I gig with a band on some weekends, doing 70s classics, but I have played classical music as well. I still LOVE playing a concert grand when I can get my hands on one! I grew up with the technology and was stoked when I could afford a Roland MKB-1000 midi controller with real wooden keys and a Roland MKS-20 piano module. Wow! At the time, that was pretty much the most realistic digital piano sound we had ever heard. I was SO happy! But of course, now, that sound is SO easily recognized as imitation. I won't go on about all the keyboards I've owned in pursuit of the best piano sound, but of course, for a gigging keyboardist, it HAS to be digital! We can expect there to be a real piano at a venue, and if the is one, what kind of shaped will it be in?! I now use a Korg Kronos and it feels and sounds really good. Having lived through the evolution of this pursuit of the the ultimate piano sound, I'm totally sold on the rig I have now. There are better ones, but the difference in quality is not that huge. Besides, my listeners would NOT be able to tell the difference if I got a $5,000 keyboard as opposed to a $4,000 keyboard. And like you said, they never go out of tune! Oh yeah, and really good quality speakers are super important. I use QSC K-12s.
Interesting... on the first run-through I felt that the first and last pieces were the digital, and I wasn’t sure about the Chopin. However, when you did a direct comparison, the Yamaha C6 stood out. However, having said that, there are some much higher quality algorithms out there that probably could come very close... but, then I have a 6’1” Falcone parlor grand (the Boston Falcone, NOT the later Chinese one that really was a generic Chinese “stencil” piano.)
It was quieter I believe. Plus it sounded different in the high mids. Maybe that's what tricked you. But I was listening to the pedal because it was noisy and clearly stood out to me.
Great video! It would be interesting to see future keyboards with some type of built in technology that could actually make the notes just ever so slightly out of tune or less "mediciney" so that is sounds more natural. I liked and subscribed!
I guessed that all of the first three clips were the digital because of an abrupt end to a low note at the end; however when you played the piece on both, the note ended abruptly even on the real piano, so it would have been easy to fool me. I totally get that the $500 digital isn't as good overall as the $56,000 grand piano, but that's not the kind of acoustic that is available to 90+% of the population. When I was in college there were lots of practice pianos available, but most of them were pretty mangy. I bought a $1,500 Casio home digital piano a decade ago, and I still think it was a good choice. It still looks and sounds good even though there are better ones out there today. Fortunately, through MIDI, my Casio can play a lot of other sampled pianos.
There is a noticeable difference. But the more important question is whether the difference makes it sound better? I'd say no; or more to the point, it doesn't matter to me. They sound equivalent to me.
Thanks Ed. Just bought a Yamaha MX88. Love it to death, but like you said, it can never sound like the real thing. P.S. love your reviews on telescopes also.
Good video. Discrimination does not equate to adequacy or value; just perception. On a side note, your name rang a bell so after I watched this video I checked out your other videos... TELESCOPES! Just fun to hear and see you after reading your scope comments and reviews many years ago. A very pleasant surprise.
Chalk and cheese, day and night! How can any salesperson claim they are indistinguishable? The harmonics alone are impossible in sampled digital technology. Great video and playing, thank you.
The C6 Grand is so much warmer than the digital piano. Absolutely stunning. Totally agree with your friend's assessment that the electronic one is a bit sterile. Music, like telescopes and watches, is more about emotion than common sense and hence people shell out massive amounts of cash for a TOA130 or AP175...... or any Rolex Guilty as charged !
I would love to see a comparison of the Yamaha CLP-765 compared to a C6 if you ever get a chance or know of another video. Great video and comparison. And you're right, we musicians can quickly tell this difference, but the 765 may be harder to tell??
Great video Ed. I've had the Yamaha P80 for about 20 years, and apart from replacing one sticky key, it's served me perfectly. My Korg Triton died a long time ago. And I'm excited to say that I've finally received my NP101is, albeit I'm still waiting for the HD4. I've had the encoders pre-installed, but TV no longer supply SkyTour. Any suggestions as an alternative? Many thanks...
I have the p-125 also great. But nothing like a good acostic piano. But as it is for me a comperisen between a great digital piano to a old terrible acostic, the digital wins every single time. Good luck!
Bought a korg c1 around when this video was made for the kids to learn on. I almost picked up a free piano but am so glad I didn't on account of space and tuning issues. I don't think the kids are missing out on much since the c1 seems to me like a real keyboard and the kids seem to transition well to various real pianos for recitals etc.
Your theory is right, I have a musical background and easily could tell the difference. I'm a percussionist though. Honestly I've always liked to argue the Piano is a half-brother to the percussion section.
Hey Ed I enjoyed the comparison. I have a P125 and an upright Yamaha U3. I've even owned the later P515 which I enjoyed. In terms of recording the digitals of course so easy. For playing it's hard to even compare, once you've experienced all those vibrations and interactions between the notes not to mention the feel of real keys there's no comparison. I will say though a used digital was a great way 10 years ago to find I wanted to pursue playing even at the very modest level I do. Thanks Ed that's a lovely piano you have.
@@menachemelkayam153 Complicated, actually a lot of it was due to being in an apartment and then house. I did have a 515, then 125 and then went back to a 515. If you can afford and only have the space for a digital the 515 is super and far better.
@@OlliesSpace oh wow, interesting! Ok ✅ Btw, I’m seeing allot of random comments all over about the action of the 515 being too much/heavy. Is that something I should worry about or the action is fine?
@@menachemelkayam153 I would agree especially when compared to my real piano Yamaha U3 it feels a bit heavy. It's hard though as it's quite subjective, if you can try get to a shop and try out the keys.
Hi, Ed, I watched a piano piece played by "Ed Ting", but I could not tell if the pianist also doing astrophotography. Now, I know that you have many talents. Can you cook too?
Absolutely! Of course, one can hear the difference! The real acoustic piano sounds a little out of tune and has excessive resonance, in other words, it sounds imperfect, no matter how expensive it is. :)))
I want to know if the speakers and samples/sounds of the digital are at all comparable in a direct comparison. So have you played your digital piano and you grand side by side to check the volume and resonance of the $5K instrument and the $500 instrument through the various ranges? I've noticed a difference in the resonance in different ranges between various digital pianos. But do they even project like a grand or any type of acoustic piano for that manor? COOL STUFF 🎹
Yeah, Ed, the differences were quite apparent to me - I've played piano since I was 3 and I'm 65. But, FYI, there are many VST grand pianos that sound much more authentic than digital pianos by the sound designers incorporating the mechanical sounds made when depressing and lifting your foot off of the sustain pedal, the sounds made when striking and lifting your fingers off of the keys, the sustaining tones/colors made by different combinations of keeping some keys depressed by striking others, and the differences in the timbre when moving up and down the length of the keyboard, etc. They're quite amazing and when playing a keyboard with a decent hammer action keybed, even the player can be fooled into believing they're playing an actual grand piano.
I do not have an idea how you recorded these pianos but the sound of Yamaha C7 and Yamaha digital piano (P-225), I play, is completely different when I record them. Dramatically different. By the way, I have had 8 digital pianos so far (including Roland FP-90x and Yamaha P-515 - I also use piano VSTs) and I was never happy with any of them. Yamaha C7 is a real thing! It is all dependent how you record the piano!
Very interesting. I have struggled with the idea of replacing my piano with a digital, as playing an in-tune instrument is important to me. Yet the "medicinal" tonal quality of a digital sample never sounds right. Perhaps one needs to own both!
Excellent video and a fascinating discussion! For me, it seems as if the current digital acoustic piano sampling sound and digital acoustic piano modeling sound that comes out of a speaker always makes my ears bleed. Gimmicks. My ears will not pretend that a digital acoustic piano sound is the authentic sound of an acoustic piano. And, if I was fortunate enough to own a twenty year old Yamaha C6 acoustic grand piano with the current retail price at $56K, I would not give it up even if someone offered 100 P-45's (at retail $500 each=$50K) in an even trade for my C6. On the other hand, I am all in for the sampled and modeled iconic electric pianos of the past. Awesome! I love them all! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. And, I am also all in for the sampled and modeled iconic analog synthesizers of the past. Awesome! I love all of them, too! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. But, nothing digital that comes out of a speaker has to date matched the genuine sound of a properly regulated, well tempered, consistently tuned acoustic piano. :) 8
When identifying between Digital and Real Piano I would pay attention to notes and listen to how they fade out. Electronic one will have a digitally reducing signal that mimic fading out, but closer to the end at some point the electronic signal becomes too low to 'drive' the sound generating unit (Speaker in this case), so you would notice a sudden fall / click like sound leading to total silence. In real piano the 'reverberation' stays longer and fades out lot more naturally. In other words I believe this too is what is perceived as more 'Rich' sounding experience 'cause new tunes mix with previous fading ones. Pure audiophiles might throw in the argument about the recording unit and then digital reproduction [UA-cam sampling down + people listening on otherwise average audio setup] contributing to the factor that sort of fooled average listeners not being able to identify the difference. In person listening (blind one) should make it easier to identify the difference. Disclaimer: I do not play any string instrument [hope to change that someday], so comments may not be accurate from a professional musicians point of view. I do however have a degree in electronics and communication engineering and have a fairly decent idea of how 'sound' / 'tune' would be produced electronically [unfortunately also why they seem perfectly in tune all the time] that we hear from the Digital Piano.
Good video, although comparing the C6 to a CLP digital would be a more interesting comparison. I often play my digital Yamaha with good quality headphones because the sound is so much better, and you can no long hear the cheaper action
Not a musician, but its the resonance of the real thing that is missing from the digital. They recreate the sound of the string probably perfectly, but, what about the frame holding the strings? The wood structure, etc? The tuning bit is potentially solved by adding back a small amount of wander digitally. I believe they do something similar on some of their new digital/analog hybrid synths. Given the $/space tradeoff, the digital is still really good though. In the first example I figured 1 and 3 were the keyboard, but 2 I was on the fence.
Interesting comparison. But i think that it would be fair to output the sound of the digital piano to a reasonably priced and good sounding keyboard amplifier or piano monitor. There would still remain a huge price difference but not so much sound quality gap between them imho.
Simply outstanding "review" and explanation. I have a Kawai (1974) for which I paid not a small amount. Tuning it on a regular basis is not cheap. I may not play for weeks, yet I can hear when it is out of tune. Digital piano allows for significant cost savings, at the loss of a richer sound. If you're not a professional piano player or teacher, digital is not a bad choice. And, yes, the price of even good used pianos is much more than an acoustic.
For the price the Yamaha P45 is fantastic for a cheap digital piano. But if you was doing this with a Yamaha CLP785 I think less people would be able to tell the difference.
Sound quality on a digital piano depends very much on it's built in speakers. Crappy speakers will sound like crap. If the sound is fed through a set of good quality speakers, it will sound amazing. I would always choose a digital piano over an acoustic for many reasons: 1. Midi capability, 2. Versatility in instrument sounds, 3. Price (lots of bang for the buck), 4. Reliability (no tuning required), 5. Takes up less space, 6. I can use headphones while practicing so I don't piss off my neighbours.
The sound of the P45 can be further improved by saturating it with low even harmonics. Using a Class A tube amplifier and low headroom. But then $ 500 is too small a budget. It could fit in $ 1,000. Obviously, it has no chance with an acoustic piano, but the differences will be inaudible. They will, however, be felt when playing P45 vs C6.
I think you picked the wrong digital piano for the comparison. If you ever get a chance to sample Casio's PX C1000 or the C3000, take the time and do it. But, be sure to hook the digital piano to a sound system that includes a decent subwoofer and a pair or more of good-sounding full-range speakers. Then do your comparison concentrating on sound and keyboard touch. I think you will be completely surprised.
I could tell immediately that all three clips at the beginning were from the digital. It is "clinical," IMO nothing to do with tuning but more with the the lack of harmonic interaction between the different notes. Each note is individually sampled, and individually played back. The P-45 doesn't have a resonance engine to simulate the interaction of vibrations when multiple strings are struck.
I could hear the difference being a new piano player. I have yet to play on an acoustic but the largest advantage for me and the rest of my family is that you can plug headphones into a digital piano! And it’s easy to move around.
I also picked the difference, for exactly the reason you said. I could hear the harmonic imperfection in the Grand. That doesn't mean it not as good as the digital. When will people start to appreciate the beauty of imperfection. Real music, is not perfect. I'm starting to hear Artists record vocals without Auto-tune, and it sounds real.
The sound that we hear here from the other side of the internet is digital and comes from the tiny speaker from the cellphone, so if it's possible to hear the difference from here, it means that the difference is huge.
I watch UA-cam with cellphone. I can tell the difference. I have digital baby grand AG-50. Have read harsh reviews so I went music store to compare to other brands. AG-50 was better than most similar priced ones. But those sounds are not as good as UA-cam reviewed. I am not picky but nothing satisfies me. I had no chance to play digital piano more then $5000. Haven’t seen one in person. Only on UA-cam.
Yes, you are absolutely right. Those who are in the music know. The average person non music instrument player can’t hear the difference. As far as price, we’ll, the real acoustic piano is a nice piece of furniture that weighs 100 of pounds and thousands of dollars. The bottom line is what makes one happy and enjoying the music. For 50,000.00 I can have many plastic keyboards and up grades for decades to come. Todays world we have cell phones and video calls to anyone around the world. Compared to se ding a letter that takes many days and weeks of what now takes place in moments. For anyone it’s what you enjoy, what you want that makes it for you. I love them both for what they are.
This is a nice comparison. Been playing piano relatively casually for decades, not an expert. But I could tell in the first couple seconds that it was a digital. I feel like every digital piano I've ever played has a tinny kind of sound. Like the speakers are always lower quality than they should be, and you get distortion or unwanted vibrations. Still looking for that great one!
Pretty cool comparison. Did you use the same equipment to record these excerpts? The digital piano recording sounds like mono and the grand piano sounds stereo. I could easily tell the digital piano from the clicking sound the switch inside the pedal when you were playing…is that cheating?
The imperfect tuning of the grand piano does make some sense. When singers are harmonizing, the blend is thinner if the singers are perfectly on each note. It sounds richer if they are very slightly off the note.
Hey Ed, is that a Dammp chaser light I see on that C6? Nice to see a fellow piano playing astronomy nut. I have a C7 with Renner Blue Point hammers at work and a Nexstar 8SE for my telescope.
The grand piano is miked. Therefore, I hear a big difference in the amount of reverb. It almost sounds like the sustain pedal is being used. You can easily add some reverb to a digital keyboard. That might be some of the difference you are hearing.
I have a Casio 1100 whose piano voice was sampled with one of the best acoustic pianos in Germany. I love the sound. The sad thing is, we get spoiled with the sampled sound such that when we play the real thing, we are not impressed. I went to a music store and was allowed to play a $200K Fazioli. Now if my only reference were other acoustics that I've played like uprights, Spinets, etc. I would be amazed at how great it sounded. But because my e-piano has such an amazing sound, I was unphased. That said, I totally agree the feel is a lot worse on a digital piano. The further up the keys is stiff and can stifle play if you're doing classical music. Mid-piece you may not hit a note hard enough and it ruins play. I am very accustomed to digital pianos so I could easily tell the difference between both. The digital piano has an aftertaste that sounds like a computer-generated voice. The acoustic piano doesn't have that suspended sound which again I can only explain as computer-generated. The acoustic sound falls off naturally. The P45 is an older, cheaper digital piano. So the difference is more obvious. My px1100 is newer with better grand piano voicings. Still, you just can't get away from it having a computer-generated sound.
I bought my wife a baby grand 25 years ago. I decided to buy the P45 and learn how to play piano. I can play in my room and not bother her at night. I'm not a gifted musician by an stretch of the imagination but I could tell the difference between the two instruments.
He is absolutely right when it comes to the tune of the piano My piano almost never sound Precisely the same day to day and it’s quite annoying Because sometimes you think your playing the wrong keys but if your piano is tune correctly time after time your strings will loosen and it will start to sound flat That why piano tuners tune more sharp to compensate that give
I appreciate this sort of observations. Additionally I hope somebody could point out the special sounds in a real piano that have yet to appear on digital piano, like trills and bits and effects found in Tristesse by Chopin. Renner action also has that plucking kind of sound when keys are struck hard. Famous sounds in Rhapsody in Blue and other works too can not be reproduce on digital piano.
I think getting the digital piano works out great for you or your children to learn. If you stick with it and study serious then upgrade to the more expensive piano.
I have grand piano and digital piano. The difference is very clear. Acoustic sounds imperfect and the harmony is more colorful and has much more dynamic range especially ppp , digital piano sounds clearer and always sounds perfect but simple narrow dynamic range
I could hear a difference in these two sounds.. but to me it was a difference in *ambience*. The real piano included more room reverb, and the sound was evidently coming from a wider space.. a space that was grand piano-sized, say? What I am saying is, the position of the microphones in both cases could be critical, even decisive.
The click from the sustain pedal switch gave it away! 😂 I thought all three were on the digital version although the depth of that bass tone at the end as well as the “resonance, sway and body” of the sound was very analogue sounding. Kind regards Anders Sweden
Yeah I don't know what to do about that. People have commented on the clicking. No matter how high I raise the volume, or how far away I mic the P45 you can still hear it. BTW some of the clicking is the keys. They make noises too. The P45 does not have a line out so I'm stuck with it.
@@edting haha I actually started off listening for the particular key action sounds to help me figure out which one you made the recording on…😉 but again..I’m not the “average piano person“, so I think I’m disqualified to participate. 🤣 Kudos for the good video idea and the making of it. It’s surely an eye (ear) opener for many potential buyers out there! Sorry for not praising you for that in my initial post! Not very considerate of me.
@@edting by the way.. a tip: my kurzweil pedal didn’t make that click sound. (If I recall correctly.) it’s also very grand piano -like in feel and performance. I had three electrical pedals back then and one was terrible and was replaced.
I really have no musical experience to speak of. But one give away was the peddle sound. I could definitely hear that thing clicking away. I believe there are pedals that are quieter? I don't know if that was a give away to your little test sample or not, but it might be worth repeating your experiment without the sound of the clicky pedal.
Having a digital piano is better than having no piano. I swear.
LOL
Honestly, I'd take my digital piano over 90% of most acoustic pianos. As most acoustic pianos sound horrible in comparison. Granted most acoustic pianos have a better feel.
@@toddfarkman2177 I own the Yamaha P-515 ($1600) and it sounds better than any acoustic I could afford and many I couldn't. The C6 feels better but it costs as much as a new car.
@@cisium1184 Yep. When it comes to ePianos, the real issue is key response, not sound. My epiano sounds amazing but i literally have to plan to play keys toward the ends because the fulcrum makes the keys stiff at the tops. If you play classical, it's an issue.
@@toddfarkman2177no way. Only if the acoustic needs repairs...
But... You can plug headphones into a digital piano
I have played for years, and I could tell right away which was digital and which was acoustic. Thanks for that demonstration. Nothing beats the real thing unless you are tight on budget and space.
You are comparing a 500$ one. Go up the price to a 2000-3000$ class kawaii, roland or casio then you will actually barely hear the difference. Well kawaii probably has the best sampling. While roland is more modulated. Go a little further into the hybrids then you probably won't hear a difference at all.
@@sagnikmaulik Agreed, the P45 isn't exactly the best sampled piano. But if you use high quality microphones in your comparison, more skilled players will still notice the difference. Because sampled is still sampled. It's difficult engineering duplicating the response of playing an expensive acoustic.
I think "tight on budget" is understating it a bit. I don't know anyone with enough spare cash lying around to put car/house money down on an instrument. Pretty much everyone I know can afford or already owns a pretty convincing sounding keyboard. I love that the technology has brought that within the reach of far more people now.
I have no musical background and thought the 2nd tune (2/3) was the real one, but was surprised to hear all 3 were from the digital.
TheRainMakerUSA , that’s exactly what I thought too?
Thats wack I thought the very same! Bizarre.
That was exactly my case.
Should have started with “Spoiler Alert”
I thought the same as well. I'm pretty sure the reason is that the second passage has far more notes being sustained at the same time, giving a much richer harmonic blend that the acoustic piano naturally creates with fewer notes.
I acquired a Yamaha P-125 electronic piano a few weeks ago. I live in a smallish Manhattan apartment and would have difficulty accommodating a full-size acoustic piano. I was a conservatory graduate in piano many years ago, and am dreaming of re-acquiring the skills I had back then. I am having no problem working on the Yamaha from a pianist's standpoint. I do not feel deprived as a musician. I am slowly re-establishing the brain-finger connections and the electronic piano is producing a sound quality sufficient to hold my determination to continue.
That’s a weird so say you like the piano
Lol
Really nice little concept and comparison. My wife bought me a Yamaha P45 this Fall to begin learning on and have to say I do love it. We had the room and could have afforded a conventional piano, and we almost nearly did a baby grand, but in the end I really gravitated to the space and the reduced level of commitment required by this little digital wonder, and the fact that it didn’t make such an overt statement in the house. In other words I wasn’t going to feel too guilty if I didn’t like practicing on any given day. I also love the fact that I can play wearing headphones, which by the way is a very satisfying experience, so as not to disturb her as I do my scales, and the fact that I can switch to another type of instrument (ie. electric piano, strings, or organ) to change up the feel and sound which has the added benefit of keeping my interest up while practicing. I do feel part of the perceived problem with the digital piano (P45 in this case) might just be the on board speakers which though quite adequate in a small room, sound a bit thin especially compared to the voluminous Yamaha Grand you compared it to. Headphones certainly ameliorate this issue, but I have considered adding a pair of decent powered monitors (speakers) just to have a more immersive experience when I play. Will probably do this once I’m a bit better, say in another year or so. If I do get a lot better, and am able to play real music like I hope to down the line the baby grand might still find home in our house. But until then I don’t see myself suffering from Grand Piano envy. Thanks so much for your comparison.
An honest review, I have the p45 as well, I'm thinking of also adding some powered speakers to enhance the sound
I have a Yamaha DGX-660. Similar to yours. About $800 cost. The major reason I want to upgrade to another digital maybe on $3000 dollars area is…….the key action. It’s night and day from a real acoustic piano. It’s far too light and as learner just 5 years in I need to change that.
Hey, it's been a year, have you upgraded the speakers yet?
@@SticknubI Have a p125 and 2 5” monitors. Also a Yamaha H series subwoofer which makes a huge listening difference
Someone once described the best digital piano as the best sound coming through a speaker. But a real piano, especially a grand, really resonates. Huge difference in my opinion. And it is difficult to appreciate when heard through computer speakers.
It's true as a digital piano user. I once tried my friend's grand piano. And oh man does it sound good
Put it through a mixer and a good speaker system, and the sound is a bit harder to differentiate!
Exactly what I was wondering! Is there any comparison between the digital with speakers and the real deal?
@@josephharrison6175 I'm getting a digital grand piano. I will do a side by side comparison. If you are ever in the Chicago area, you can come see it.
The main difference to me is the digital piano will always be heard through a speaker. You can't capture that difference in a video.
If he line out it would sound 4 times better than via the speakers and then into UA-cam. It is an unfair way to test. The acoustic, even a bad acoustic, will out perform small speakers regardless of the quality of the sample on a digital.
@@africanhistory Unless it's out of tune or there's some ringing
Echo and out of tune.
Yeah the experiment was compromised before it even began, the microphone quality is bad. Run the digital piano through a VST to match the ambient sound qualities of the room the grand piano is being played in, and mix in the sound of the keys being pressed. You'll still be able to tell but at least then the quality differences can be measured.
It was always my dream to get an acoustic piano, but because we couldn't afford one, I've always practiced on a keyboard. My piano teacher has a Kawai grand piano, which I absolutely love. I have to say, there is a huge difference between them. You can feel and hear the richness of the grand piano, while the keyboard to me is much more plain in these senses.
The thing I notice between real and digital pianos is that there is lots more upper harmonics with real pianos. Although manufacturers have done a great deal with digital pianos they can't quite copy that sound. Real pianos have "attitude". If you play jazz and use closed voicings they don't sound the same on a digital piano and I've played a lot including vst instruments. I have a theory that its because the mid section of a real piano actually has three strings per note which have to be ever so slightly tuned "out" from one another to avoid "beating". this mean that when you play two notes next to one another a semi-tone apart there is actually 6 notes fighting one another. Its not an unpleasant sound but certainly has that jazzy tension built in. I have never heard this recreated on any digital piano.
I have played piano for about 50 years and teach (classical music only). The difference between the two is obvious. I could immediately tell the 1st 3 were the digital. It is a copy of a tone. So perfect each tone yes but lacks the subtle differences in harmonics, resonance, partials and sonority that an acoustic piano brings. They sing! The digital is nice but its lifeless in comparison. Also the tactile connection between the player and the instrument is lost. Its like taking a picture or video of someone compared to seeing that person in person. It is not necessary to keep a piano precisely in tune. Some beautiful sounds can be had in a piano at times if some notes are a little out of tune - but not to the point of any notes sounding dissonant of course. If you can keep your instrument at a fairly constant temperature and humidity (a tall order for where you live) the tune will hold better. My pianos (I own 5) here in southern Florida under pretty steady temperature and humidity (always under AC) hold tune a long time. By the way - you play beautifully Ed... Dan B., Boynton Beach, FL
Nice comment it really helped and most of my lifetime as a 13 year old I only loved to lisen to classical music I think its just who I am
And I own a diginal piano myself and I just love it
I always wanted to play classical music I can play 2, but I hope I can play all of them because I am not realy a mastered pianoist.
Keep in mind the P-45 is near the bottom of the digital lineup.
But at the same time, some of the most beautiful and best-selling songs of all time were done on digital pianos, and millions of piano teachers own them
Yeah, the C6 sounds fuller, richer, more intimate, etc. But is the difference worth $49,500? My son is a music ed and piano performance double major and it kills me that he can't own a quality baby grand. The prices are criminal.
It makes a difference for the performer ... even if they sound all the same... you can't replicate a grand action.
Your son is a student, dude. He's not the target buyer for a C6. A few years down the line, when he's got a seat in a band/orchestra and is bringing in the big bucks, he'll buy one for you to keep at your place when he visits and another at his place.
Im an astronomer and a musician. I found you through astronomy, but I love your piano vids just as much. Thank you for the great content and your virtual company.
There is a great documentary showing how Steinway pianos are made from start to finish...after you see that video, there is no question why they cost that much...absolutely amazing process
When you say the real one has a bigger fuller sound. A P-45 recorded plugged direct into the desk with the right settings and then a touch of stereo reverb it sounds a lot better than its built in speakers. I have the P45 in my home studio and it sounds great for my limited piano skills.
Possibly in this case, yes - however, if you pair a $500 midi controller with a very good piano VST like the 1955 Walker that clocks in at almost 200GB of samples, the difference would be hard to tell.
Samples are still samples. You have to realize hitting a piano key in different ways can produce different sounds. It's not just one sound. Slamming on a key, holding a key, staccato, using a pedal, etc. etc. Despite it being the same note, the keyboard has to mimic all of the sounds a real piano makes. And sampling is just a part of it.
@@toddfarkman2177 you can fit a lot of those examples into 200GB of samples if you have an entirely sampled digital piano. But I think most of the digital piano manufacturers nowadays use some kind of sound generating engine that generates the sound based on a ton of factors like the velocity they key is pressed with and how it is released.
I think the real issue is that in a full-size grand piano the entire body of the piano is vibrating and generating sound. And though you can take a lot of measurements and create a very good model of how the sound is made, when it comes to reproducing it there's a limit to how close you can get with a few relatively small speakers as compared to the big frame of a grand piano creating a complex sound.
As a non-musician, the direct comparison showed a very marked difference to my ears. There's really no contest.
The initial three examples, I tried to tell if there was a difference (in tone) between them, but they were all the same. Even the background sounds (the clicks of the keys?) were the same. The direct comparison again showed a marked difference in those background sounds.
Very interesting comparison.
There's a certain sonority that a real piano has that is hard to replicate. Thanks for the comparison. For those folks who lack space or the means to get a true piano, they can be confident that the P45 will give them something they can enjoy and learn on.
Thank you for this. I have joined a church that only uses digital pianos. Being a classically trained pianist I can’t seem to convince them there’s a difference. They’ve been after me to play some in church and my response is always the same… “When the church buys a grand piano, I’ll play!” I’ve just sent this video to one of the ministers who asked me yet again this week to consider playing.
A year and a half after you posted this, I've finally watched it. I'm more interested in your astronomy videos, but I do play keyboards, and I've seen the C6 in the background of your videos, so I wanted to look at some of your music videos. This was the first of those.
A couple of things.
1. Sample size is important. On a $500 keyboard, even today with cheap memory pricing, you're still not going to get a lot of samples or multi-samples. The manufacturer is just not going to put that kind of time and effort into a $500 piece of gear. I have a Korg PA800, marketed in 2009, and I get a better piano sound than this newer P45. But, then again, when I bought my PA800, way back in 2009, it was seven times the price of the P45. Of course, it's more than a piano, it's an arranger keyboard.
2. Yamaha is notorious for adding effects to its samples. Technically, it is supposed to make it 'sound better', particularly if you're using the speakers in a room environment, but it is not the same as a acoustic instrument in a live setting, and it makes a difference.
3. When I was selling this stuff, way back in the 1980's, the Yamaha Clavinovas were probably the best thing on the market for home digital audio, and we had a blind player come by. He thought he was listening to an acoustic piano (this was back with digital sampling first came out and all the bugs had been ironed out). He sat down to play it, and he could tell it was not a real acoustic. Yamaha worked very hard on their 'Action Express' keybed and action, and it felt really nice. But, he noticed that it wasn't an acoustic action, and that the sound, albeit good, was not that of an acoustic piano. This was a $3,000+ piano back in the late 80s, not a $500 keyboard.
4. Unless you actually play an instrument, it's difficult to tell what is real and what is digital, and today's synths are much better than what they used to be. To get an idea, may I link to you Roberto Zeolla, who plays Yamaha's new, top of the line, $6,000 arranger keyboard, the Yamaha Genos. ua-cam.com/video/eeByvuYfAYE/v-deo.html Non Dimenticar. Listen to THIS piano and compare it to the current P45 piano. See what a difference there is.
Then, this video is from 2015, almost six years ago. THIS is the keyboard I want to replace my PA800 with, the Korg PA4X Pro 76 key. ua-cam.com/video/vocWSlaDcaE/v-deo.html This is an introduction to the keyboard, before it even came out. Korg has since released OS upgrades to it, which also include better samples. But, this is also a $4,600 keyboard.
Wonderful demonstration. Thank you! I had a 6ft Steinway for several years while I studied piano in my late teens. I haven't played now for almost 50 years but I recently became very interested in acquiring a digital piano and did not realize the quality of sound and capabilities. I am about to purchase one but it's been tough selecting between the Kawai and Yamaha models. They are both so fine! This time I will not be setting up standards for my playing that I cannot meet, and do not need to meet. I will be playing purely for my own enjoyment and for the pleasure of revisiting the music I grew up loving.
How is your piano learning going? What piano did you get? I just restarted, too.
@@lauramayfair7887 I'm seven months into my return to piano practice. My Kawai ES110 has beautiful sound but it did develop a buzzing sound in the middle of the keyboard that I finally figured out was caused by sound vibration within the case. I had to use two large clamps to gently squeeze the case and this helps. I was not happy to have to do this. Kawai support was not of much help.
Sonically, the P-45 was not far off from an acoustic. It sounded very good! What gave it away for me was the unevenness of the playing. I could tell that the action was not very advanced because it was affecting technique and rhythm.
As I'm typing this, I hear the C6. Acoustics have impurities in the sound that give it more of that humanity. Nice playing!
Ed, I totally enjoyed your video and your explanation offered as to the "why" there is the difference between the digital and the acoustic being the touch sensitivity and plastic.
Great review and comparison. Love the poll you took as well. Thank you.
Try compare with a range of digital piano instead of just the lower end product.
I own a Yamaha P95. Today I was recording an idea for a song and because I don't have a good audio interface, I often leave the monitoring off and go with the P95's own sound and this time was no different. Once the part is recorded, a virtual piano -- much better than the P95 -- in my computer reproduces it. I was having a little problem, because even though I was depressing the pedal at each new chord, the previous chord was bleeding into the next. Then it struck me that the P95 doesn't feature sympathetic resonance, but the virtual piano does.
One thing to take into consideration here is that if you record the digital piano with a microphone instead of directly recording the line-output, the sound will always appear crappy in the recording. If you do directly record it, it will be much harder to spot for the novice which is the real piano. Particularly if your real piano is tuned well and recorded with quality microphones and correct set-up.
The 50grand piano sounds heavenly and in a state of grace
Interesting stuff. I only play the ukulele, but I could instantly tell the difference between the two in the second of your two test clips. So this tends to support your statement that people who play stringed instruments can tell the difference, even a ukulele!
I'm so glad other people got to hear this; not glad I did though. I'm tortured to go through time without the grand piano I used to have and forever since have tried to find something that could replicate it in a digital simulator. Well, that doesn't exist as you point out, simply because they aren't the same; how could they be? Yet, they have succeeded in the closest thing possible I guess, and since I am resigned to my Roland PF-30X, I have to love it because there isn't a choice right now. I think the acceptance of the differences makes them more tolerable, although you simply can't beat the portability and size of a digital unit. For me, I can't be without a piano of some kind; I just can't. Sure, the type does matter and it matters a lot, but to be without one completely just isn't optional, at least for me. In starting out( again), the best way is to appreciate what you have, and move up as you can as though you were walking up a hill, not climbing a mountain. Thank you for your video. Your piano is beautiful.
Though I only play a guitar, I could easily distinguish between the two, and the C6 (to me) sounds grades above the P45. Great playing and choice of pieces by the way!
I have played for over 50 years. I gig with a band on some weekends, doing 70s classics, but I have played classical music as well. I still LOVE playing a concert grand when I can get my hands on one! I grew up with the technology and was stoked when I could afford a Roland MKB-1000 midi controller with real wooden keys and a Roland MKS-20 piano module. Wow! At the time, that was pretty much the most realistic digital piano sound we had ever heard. I was SO happy! But of course, now, that sound is SO easily recognized as imitation. I won't go on about all the keyboards I've owned in pursuit of the best piano sound, but of course, for a gigging keyboardist, it HAS to be digital! We can expect there to be a real piano at a venue, and if the is one, what kind of shaped will it be in?! I now use a Korg Kronos and it feels and sounds really good. Having lived through the evolution of this pursuit of the the ultimate piano sound, I'm totally sold on the rig I have now. There are better ones, but the difference in quality is not that huge. Besides, my listeners would NOT be able to tell the difference if I got a $5,000 keyboard as opposed to a $4,000 keyboard. And like you said, they never go out of tune! Oh yeah, and really good quality speakers are super important. I use QSC K-12s.
Ed Ting, thank you! You answered relevant concerns. Appreciate you!
I don't play piano but enjoy listening to music. We had the Yamaha p45 digital piano for my daughter and had now upgraded to the Yamaha U3.
It would be more interesting comparing a higher end digital vs a grand piano.
Interesting... on the first run-through I felt that the first and last pieces were the digital, and I wasn’t sure about the Chopin. However, when you did a direct comparison, the Yamaha C6 stood out. However, having said that, there are some much higher quality algorithms out there that probably could come very close... but, then I have a 6’1” Falcone parlor grand (the Boston Falcone, NOT the later Chinese one that really was a generic Chinese “stencil” piano.)
It was quieter I believe. Plus it sounded different in the high mids. Maybe that's what tricked you. But I was listening to the pedal because it was noisy and clearly stood out to me.
I had the same guess lol but the difference with the grand piano in the comparison was enormous, no contest
Now, it’s three years after my original comment… and I still feel exactly the same.
@@TucsonBillD--This is the 1st time I've seen this video, and I felt the same way you did. The 2nd piece had more of a "percussive" sound.
Great video! It would be interesting to see future keyboards with some type of built in technology that could actually make the notes just ever so slightly out of tune or less "mediciney" so that is sounds more natural.
I liked and subscribed!
Awesome video, brilliant explanations and very to the point
I guessed that all of the first three clips were the digital because of an abrupt end to a low note at the end; however when you played the piece on both, the note ended abruptly even on the real piano, so it would have been easy to fool me. I totally get that the $500 digital isn't as good overall as the $56,000 grand piano, but that's not the kind of acoustic that is available to 90+% of the population. When I was in college there were lots of practice pianos available, but most of them were pretty mangy. I bought a $1,500 Casio home digital piano a decade ago, and I still think it was a good choice. It still looks and sounds good even though there are better ones out there today. Fortunately, through MIDI, my Casio can play a lot of other sampled pianos.
There is a noticeable difference. But the more important question is whether the difference makes it sound better? I'd say no; or more to the point, it doesn't matter to me. They sound equivalent to me.
Fantastic evaluation there.
Thanks Ed. Just bought a Yamaha MX88. Love it to death, but like you said, it can never sound like the real thing. P.S. love your reviews on telescopes also.
Great video. Thanks for the demonstration.
Good video. Discrimination does not equate to adequacy or value; just perception. On a side note, your name rang a bell so after I watched this video I checked out your other videos... TELESCOPES! Just fun to hear and see you after reading your scope comments and reviews many years ago. A very pleasant surprise.
Chalk and cheese, day and night!
How can any salesperson claim they are indistinguishable? The harmonics alone are impossible in sampled digital technology.
Great video and playing, thank you.
The C6 Grand is so much warmer than the digital piano. Absolutely stunning.
Totally agree with your friend's assessment that the electronic one is a bit sterile.
Music, like telescopes and watches, is more about emotion than common sense and hence people shell out massive amounts of cash for a TOA130 or AP175...... or any Rolex
Guilty as charged !
If you heard a proper recording of a p45 it really does not sound as bad as his. Still it cannot compare. But some digitals do.
@@africanhistory See my comment on the Yamaha P-125 above
Yamaha DGX-670 ftw. Perfect balance between sounding amazing and being affordable and small enough to easily fit into a nook in your house.
I would love to see a comparison of the Yamaha CLP-765 compared to a C6 if you ever get a chance or know of another video. Great video and comparison. And you're right, we musicians can quickly tell this difference, but the 765 may be harder to tell??
Quite an interesting video. Thank you for your time!
Brother, you are such a nice presenter, I'm subscribing.
Great video Ed. I've had the Yamaha P80 for about 20 years, and apart from replacing one sticky key, it's served me perfectly. My Korg Triton died a long time ago. And I'm excited to say that I've finally received my NP101is, albeit I'm still waiting for the HD4. I've had the encoders pre-installed, but TV no longer supply SkyTour. Any suggestions as an alternative? Many thanks...
I have the p-125 also great. But nothing like a good acostic piano. But as it is for me a comperisen between a great digital piano to a old terrible acostic, the digital wins every single time. Good luck!
Bought a korg c1 around when this video was made for the kids to learn on. I almost picked up a free piano but am so glad I didn't on account of space and tuning issues. I don't think the kids are missing out on much since the c1 seems to me like a real keyboard and the kids seem to transition well to various real pianos for recitals etc.
Your theory is right, I have a musical background and easily could tell the difference. I'm a percussionist though. Honestly I've always liked to argue the Piano is a half-brother to the percussion section.
Hey Ed I enjoyed the comparison. I have a P125 and an upright Yamaha U3. I've even owned the later P515 which I enjoyed. In terms of recording the digitals of course so easy. For playing it's hard to even compare, once you've experienced all those vibrations and interactions between the notes not to mention the feel of real keys there's no comparison. I will say though a used digital was a great way 10 years ago to find I wanted to pursue playing even at the very modest level I do. Thanks Ed that's a lovely piano you have.
Seems like from what you’re writing that you sold the 515 and kept the 125.
Is that true?
If yes, why?
@@menachemelkayam153 Complicated, actually a lot of it was due to being in an apartment and then house. I did have a 515, then 125 and then went back to a 515. If you can afford and only have the space for a digital the 515 is super and far better.
@@OlliesSpace oh wow, interesting!
Ok ✅
Btw, I’m seeing allot of random comments all over about the action of the 515 being too much/heavy.
Is that something I should worry about or the action is fine?
@@menachemelkayam153 I would agree especially when compared to my real piano Yamaha U3 it feels a bit heavy. It's hard though as it's quite subjective, if you can try get to a shop and try out the keys.
@@OlliesSpace gotchu!
Ok, hopefully I’ll be able to try it out in a music store.
Thanks for your input!
Absolutely agree about being slightly out of tune. It adds depth and resonance to a real stringed instrument.
Hi, Ed, I watched a piano piece played by "Ed Ting", but I could not tell if the pianist also doing astrophotography. Now, I know that you have many talents. Can you cook too?
Absolutely! Of course, one can hear the difference! The real acoustic piano sounds a little out of tune and has excessive resonance, in other words, it sounds imperfect, no matter how expensive it is. :)))
Very good explanation & inputs!! Thank you!!
I want to know if the speakers and samples/sounds of the digital are at all comparable in a direct comparison. So have you played your digital piano and you grand side by side to check the volume and resonance of the $5K instrument and the $500 instrument through the various ranges? I've noticed a difference in the resonance in different ranges between various digital pianos. But do they even project like a grand or any type of acoustic piano for that manor?
COOL STUFF 🎹
I meant $50k lol
Yeah, Ed, the differences were quite apparent to me - I've played piano since I was 3 and I'm 65. But, FYI, there are many VST grand pianos that sound much more authentic than digital pianos by the sound designers incorporating the mechanical sounds made when depressing and lifting your foot off of the sustain pedal, the sounds made when striking and lifting your fingers off of the keys, the sustaining tones/colors made by different combinations of keeping some keys depressed by striking others, and the differences in the timbre when moving up and down the length of the keyboard, etc. They're quite amazing and when playing a keyboard with a decent hammer action keybed, even the player can be fooled into believing they're playing an actual grand piano.
Which do you prefer for beginners: ydp 105 or ydp 145
I do not have an idea how you recorded these pianos but the sound of Yamaha C7 and Yamaha digital piano (P-225), I play, is completely different when I record them. Dramatically different. By the way, I have had 8 digital pianos so far (including Roland FP-90x and Yamaha P-515 - I also use piano VSTs) and I was never happy with any of them. Yamaha C7 is a real thing!
It is all dependent how you record the piano!
* C6
Very interesting. I have struggled with the idea of replacing my piano with a digital, as playing an in-tune instrument is important to me. Yet the "medicinal" tonal quality of a digital sample never sounds right. Perhaps one needs to own both!
Excellent video and a fascinating discussion! For me, it seems as if the current digital acoustic piano sampling sound and digital acoustic piano modeling sound that comes out of a speaker always makes my ears bleed. Gimmicks. My ears will not pretend that a digital acoustic piano sound is the authentic sound of an acoustic piano. And, if I was fortunate enough to own a twenty year old Yamaha C6 acoustic grand piano with the current retail price at $56K, I would not give it up even if someone offered 100 P-45's (at retail $500 each=$50K) in an even trade for my C6. On the other hand, I am all in for the sampled and modeled iconic electric pianos of the past. Awesome! I love them all! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. And, I am also all in for the sampled and modeled iconic analog synthesizers of the past. Awesome! I love all of them, too! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. But, nothing digital that comes out of a speaker has to date matched the genuine sound of a properly regulated, well tempered, consistently tuned acoustic piano. :)
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When identifying between Digital and Real Piano I would pay attention to notes and listen to how they fade out. Electronic one will have a digitally reducing signal that mimic fading out, but closer to the end at some point the electronic signal becomes too low to 'drive' the sound generating unit (Speaker in this case), so you would notice a sudden fall / click like sound leading to total silence. In real piano the 'reverberation' stays longer and fades out lot more naturally. In other words I believe this too is what is perceived as more 'Rich' sounding experience 'cause new tunes mix with previous fading ones.
Pure audiophiles might throw in the argument about the recording unit and then digital reproduction [UA-cam sampling down + people listening on otherwise average audio setup] contributing to the factor that sort of fooled average listeners not being able to identify the difference. In person listening (blind one) should make it easier to identify the difference.
Disclaimer: I do not play any string instrument [hope to change that someday], so comments may not be accurate from a professional musicians point of view. I do however have a degree in electronics and communication engineering and have a fairly decent idea of how 'sound' / 'tune' would be produced electronically [unfortunately also why they seem perfectly in tune all the time] that we hear from the Digital Piano.
Good video, although comparing the C6 to a CLP digital would be a more interesting comparison. I often play my digital Yamaha with good quality headphones because the sound is so much better, and you can no long hear the cheaper action
Not a musician, but its the resonance of the real thing that is missing from the digital. They recreate the sound of the string probably perfectly, but, what about the frame holding the strings? The wood structure, etc?
The tuning bit is potentially solved by adding back a small amount of wander digitally. I believe they do something similar on some of their new digital/analog hybrid synths.
Given the $/space tradeoff, the digital is still really good though. In the first example I figured 1 and 3 were the keyboard, but 2 I was on the fence.
Interesting comparison. But i think that it would be fair to output the sound of the digital piano to a reasonably priced and good sounding keyboard amplifier or piano monitor.
There would still remain a huge price difference but not so much sound quality gap between them imho.
Simply outstanding "review" and explanation.
I have a Kawai (1974) for which I paid not a small amount. Tuning it on a regular basis is not cheap.
I may not play for weeks, yet I can hear when it is out of tune.
Digital piano allows for significant cost savings, at the loss of a richer sound.
If you're not a professional piano player or teacher, digital is not a bad choice.
And, yes, the price of even good used pianos is much more than an acoustic.
I have a Kawai digital piano and the feel and sound when wearing headphones is pretty close to the grand piano in my music school
I have a Casio GP 300. A hybrid with electronic sound production but a 'proper' piano keybed made by C Bechstein. I love it.
For the price the Yamaha P45 is fantastic for a cheap digital piano. But if you was doing this with a Yamaha CLP785 I think less people would be able to tell the difference.
Sound quality on a digital piano depends very much on it's built in speakers. Crappy speakers will sound like crap. If the sound is fed through a set of good quality speakers, it will sound amazing.
I would always choose a digital piano over an acoustic for many reasons: 1. Midi capability, 2. Versatility in instrument sounds, 3. Price (lots of bang for the buck), 4. Reliability (no tuning required), 5. Takes up less space, 6. I can use headphones while practicing so I don't piss off my neighbours.
The sound of the P45 can be further improved by saturating it with low even harmonics. Using a Class A tube amplifier and low headroom.
But then $ 500 is too small a budget. It could fit in $ 1,000.
Obviously, it has no chance with an acoustic piano, but the differences will be inaudible. They will, however, be felt when playing P45 vs C6.
I think you picked the wrong digital piano for the comparison. If you ever get a chance to sample Casio's PX C1000 or the C3000, take the time and do it. But, be sure to hook the digital piano to a sound system that includes a decent subwoofer and a pair or more of good-sounding full-range speakers. Then do your comparison concentrating on sound and keyboard touch. I think you will be completely surprised.
Do you think ? Is better start with digital , and when we learned buy a acoustic ?
I could tell immediately that all three clips at the beginning were from the digital. It is "clinical," IMO nothing to do with tuning but more with the the lack of harmonic interaction between the different notes. Each note is individually sampled, and individually played back. The P-45 doesn't have a resonance engine to simulate the interaction of vibrations when multiple strings are struck.
I could hear the difference being a new piano player. I have yet to play on an acoustic but the largest advantage for me and the rest of my family is that you can plug headphones into a digital piano! And it’s easy to move around.
I also picked the difference, for exactly the reason you said. I could hear the harmonic imperfection in the Grand. That doesn't mean it not as good as the digital. When will people start to appreciate the beauty of imperfection. Real music, is not perfect. I'm starting to hear Artists record vocals without Auto-tune, and it sounds real.
The sound that we hear here from the other side of the internet is digital and comes from the tiny speaker from the cellphone, so if it's possible to hear the difference from here, it means that the difference is huge.
I watch UA-cam with cellphone. I can tell the difference. I have digital baby grand AG-50. Have read harsh reviews so I went music store to compare to other brands. AG-50 was better than most similar priced ones. But those sounds are not as good as UA-cam reviewed. I am not picky but nothing satisfies me. I had no chance to play digital piano more then $5000. Haven’t seen one in person. Only on UA-cam.
Yes, you are absolutely right. Those who are in the music know. The average person non music instrument player can’t hear the difference. As far as price, we’ll, the real acoustic piano is a nice piece of furniture that weighs 100 of pounds and thousands of dollars. The bottom line is what makes one happy and enjoying the music. For 50,000.00 I can have many plastic keyboards and up grades for decades to come. Todays world we have cell phones and video calls to anyone around the world. Compared to se ding a letter that takes many days and weeks of what now takes place in moments. For anyone it’s what you enjoy, what you want that makes it for you. I love them both for what they are.
Thank you for sharing this, really cool.
This is a nice comparison. Been playing piano relatively casually for decades, not an expert. But I could tell in the first couple seconds that it was a digital.
I feel like every digital piano I've ever played has a tinny kind of sound. Like the speakers are always lower quality than they should be, and you get distortion or unwanted vibrations. Still looking for that great one!
Pretty cool comparison.
Did you use the same equipment to record these excerpts? The digital piano recording sounds like mono and the grand piano sounds stereo.
I could easily tell the digital piano from the clicking sound the switch inside the pedal when you were playing…is that cheating?
The imperfect tuning of the grand piano does make some sense. When singers are harmonizing, the blend is thinner if the singers are perfectly on each note. It sounds richer if they are very slightly off the note.
The clarity and soothing sound of a grand piano can't be beaten by any digital piano.....
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Night and day difference. The dynamics of the C6 are insane!!
Hey Ed, is that a Dammp chaser light I see on that C6? Nice to see a fellow piano playing astronomy nut. I have a C7 with Renner Blue Point hammers at work and a Nexstar 8SE for my telescope.
Yes, I recently upgraded it to the newer model Dampp Chaser. The old one was 20 years old.
My piano tuner says they did a double blind study and people almost always preferred a slightly out of tune piano over a perfectly tuned one.
I own both. Yamaha G5 Piano at home & Yamaha Arius Digital Piano at work. But nothing beats the real thing...
The grand piano is miked. Therefore, I hear a big difference in the amount of reverb. It almost sounds like the sustain pedal is being used. You can easily add some reverb to a digital keyboard. That might be some of the difference you are hearing.
I have a Casio 1100 whose piano voice was sampled with one of the best acoustic pianos in Germany. I love the sound. The sad thing is, we get spoiled with the sampled sound such that when we play the real thing, we are not impressed. I went to a music store and was allowed to play a $200K Fazioli. Now if my only reference were other acoustics that I've played like uprights, Spinets, etc. I would be amazed at how great it sounded. But because my e-piano has such an amazing sound, I was unphased.
That said, I totally agree the feel is a lot worse on a digital piano. The further up the keys is stiff and can stifle play if you're doing classical music. Mid-piece you may not hit a note hard enough and it ruins play.
I am very accustomed to digital pianos so I could easily tell the difference between both. The digital piano has an aftertaste that sounds like a computer-generated voice. The acoustic piano doesn't have that suspended sound which again I can only explain as computer-generated. The acoustic sound falls off naturally.
The P45 is an older, cheaper digital piano. So the difference is more obvious. My px1100 is newer with better grand piano voicings. Still, you just can't get away from it having a computer-generated sound.
I bought my wife a baby grand 25 years ago. I decided to buy the P45 and learn how to play piano. I can play in my room and not bother her at night. I'm not a gifted musician by an stretch of the imagination but I could tell the difference between the two instruments.
He is absolutely right when it comes to the tune of the piano
My piano almost never sound Precisely the same day to day and it’s quite annoying
Because sometimes you think your playing the wrong keys but if your piano is tune correctly time after time your strings will loosen and it will start to sound flat
That why piano tuners tune more sharp to compensate that give
I appreciate this sort of observations. Additionally I hope somebody could point out the special sounds in a real piano that have yet to appear on digital piano, like trills and bits and effects found in Tristesse by Chopin. Renner action also has that plucking kind of sound when keys are struck hard. Famous sounds in Rhapsody in Blue and other works too can not be reproduce on digital piano.
I think getting the digital piano works out great for you or your children to learn. If you stick with it and study serious then upgrade to the more expensive piano.
I was wondering if the highest notes sound the same on both pianos.
I have grand piano and digital piano. The difference is very clear. Acoustic sounds imperfect and the harmony is more colorful and has much more dynamic range especially ppp , digital piano sounds clearer and always sounds perfect but simple narrow dynamic range
I could hear a difference in these two sounds.. but to me it was a difference in *ambience*. The real piano included more room reverb, and the sound was evidently coming from a wider space.. a space that was grand piano-sized, say?
What I am saying is, the position of the microphones in both cases could be critical, even decisive.
Is that Apollo 11 lying in bits on your shelf????
The click from the sustain pedal switch gave it away! 😂 I thought all three were on the digital version although the depth of that bass tone at the end as well as the “resonance, sway and body” of the sound was very analogue sounding.
Kind regards
Anders
Sweden
Yeah I don't know what to do about that. People have commented on the clicking. No matter how high I raise the volume, or how far away I mic the P45 you can still hear it. BTW some of the clicking is the keys. They make noises too. The P45 does not have a line out so I'm stuck with it.
@@edting haha I actually started off listening for the particular key action sounds to help me figure out which one you made the recording on…😉 but again..I’m not the “average piano person“, so I think I’m disqualified to participate. 🤣
Kudos for the good video idea and the making of it. It’s surely an eye (ear) opener for many potential buyers out there! Sorry for not praising you for that in my initial post! Not very considerate of me.
@@edting by the way.. a tip: my kurzweil pedal didn’t make that click sound. (If I recall correctly.) it’s also very grand piano -like in feel and performance. I had three electrical pedals back then and one was terrible and was replaced.
I really have no musical experience to speak of. But one give away was the peddle sound. I could definitely hear that thing clicking away. I believe there are pedals that are quieter? I don't know if that was a give away to your little test sample or not, but it might be worth repeating your experiment without the sound of the clicky pedal.