$499 Digital Piano vs $50,000 Grand Piano - Can You Tell the Difference?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The Yamaha P45 digital ($499) vs the Yamaha C6 grand piano ($ Don't ask...)
Yamaha P45 Digital Piano - www.amazon.com...
Yamaha C6 grand piano (the new version is the C6X) - usa.yamaha.com...
Having a digital piano is better than having no piano. I swear.
LOL
Honestly, I'd take my digital piano over 90% of most acoustic pianos. As most acoustic pianos sound horrible in comparison. Granted most acoustic pianos have a better feel.
@@toddfarkman2177 I own the Yamaha P-515 ($1600) and it sounds better than any acoustic I could afford and many I couldn't. The C6 feels better but it costs as much as a new car.
@@cisium1184 Yep. When it comes to ePianos, the real issue is key response, not sound. My epiano sounds amazing but i literally have to plan to play keys toward the ends because the fulcrum makes the keys stiff at the tops. If you play classical, it's an issue.
@@toddfarkman2177no way. Only if the acoustic needs repairs...
But... You can plug headphones into a digital piano
Someone once described the best digital piano as the best sound coming through a speaker. But a real piano, especially a grand, really resonates. Huge difference in my opinion. And it is difficult to appreciate when heard through computer speakers.
It's true as a digital piano user. I once tried my friend's grand piano. And oh man does it sound good
Put it through a mixer and a good speaker system, and the sound is a bit harder to differentiate!
Exactly what I was wondering! Is there any comparison between the digital with speakers and the real deal?
@@josephharrison6175 I'm getting a digital grand piano. I will do a side by side comparison. If you are ever in the Chicago area, you can come see it.
When you say the real one has a bigger fuller sound. A P-45 recorded plugged direct into the desk with the right settings and then a touch of stereo reverb it sounds a lot better than its built in speakers. I have the P45 in my home studio and it sounds great for my limited piano skills.
I have played piano for about 50 years and teach (classical music only). The difference between the two is obvious. I could immediately tell the 1st 3 were the digital. It is a copy of a tone. So perfect each tone yes but lacks the subtle differences in harmonics, resonance, partials and sonority that an acoustic piano brings. They sing! The digital is nice but its lifeless in comparison. Also the tactile connection between the player and the instrument is lost. Its like taking a picture or video of someone compared to seeing that person in person. It is not necessary to keep a piano precisely in tune. Some beautiful sounds can be had in a piano at times if some notes are a little out of tune - but not to the point of any notes sounding dissonant of course. If you can keep your instrument at a fairly constant temperature and humidity (a tall order for where you live) the tune will hold better. My pianos (I own 5) here in southern Florida under pretty steady temperature and humidity (always under AC) hold tune a long time. By the way - you play beautifully Ed... Dan B., Boynton Beach, FL
Nice comment it really helped and most of my lifetime as a 13 year old I only loved to lisen to classical music I think its just who I am
And I own a diginal piano myself and I just love it
I always wanted to play classical music I can play 2, but I hope I can play all of them because I am not realy a mastered pianoist.
Keep in mind the P-45 is near the bottom of the digital lineup.
But at the same time, some of the most beautiful and best-selling songs of all time were done on digital pianos, and millions of piano teachers own them
Wonderful demonstration. Thank you! I had a 6ft Steinway for several years while I studied piano in my late teens. I haven't played now for almost 50 years but I recently became very interested in acquiring a digital piano and did not realize the quality of sound and capabilities. I am about to purchase one but it's been tough selecting between the Kawai and Yamaha models. They are both so fine! This time I will not be setting up standards for my playing that I cannot meet, and do not need to meet. I will be playing purely for my own enjoyment and for the pleasure of revisiting the music I grew up loving.
How is your piano learning going? What piano did you get? I just restarted, too.
@@lauramayfair7887 I'm seven months into my return to piano practice. My Kawai ES110 has beautiful sound but it did develop a buzzing sound in the middle of the keyboard that I finally figured out was caused by sound vibration within the case. I had to use two large clamps to gently squeeze the case and this helps. I was not happy to have to do this. Kawai support was not of much help.
There's a certain sonority that a real piano has that is hard to replicate. Thanks for the comparison. For those folks who lack space or the means to get a true piano, they can be confident that the P45 will give them something they can enjoy and learn on.
This is a nice comparison. Been playing piano relatively casually for decades, not an expert. But I could tell in the first couple seconds that it was a digital.
I feel like every digital piano I've ever played has a tinny kind of sound. Like the speakers are always lower quality than they should be, and you get distortion or unwanted vibrations. Still looking for that great one!
I'm so glad other people got to hear this; not glad I did though. I'm tortured to go through time without the grand piano I used to have and forever since have tried to find something that could replicate it in a digital simulator. Well, that doesn't exist as you point out, simply because they aren't the same; how could they be? Yet, they have succeeded in the closest thing possible I guess, and since I am resigned to my Roland PF-30X, I have to love it because there isn't a choice right now. I think the acceptance of the differences makes them more tolerable, although you simply can't beat the portability and size of a digital unit. For me, I can't be without a piano of some kind; I just can't. Sure, the type does matter and it matters a lot, but to be without one completely just isn't optional, at least for me. In starting out( again), the best way is to appreciate what you have, and move up as you can as though you were walking up a hill, not climbing a mountain. Thank you for your video. Your piano is beautiful.
I guessed that all of the first three clips were the digital because of an abrupt end to a low note at the end; however when you played the piece on both, the note ended abruptly even on the real piano, so it would have been easy to fool me. I totally get that the $500 digital isn't as good overall as the $56,000 grand piano, but that's not the kind of acoustic that is available to 90+% of the population. When I was in college there were lots of practice pianos available, but most of them were pretty mangy. I bought a $1,500 Casio home digital piano a decade ago, and I still think it was a good choice. It still looks and sounds good even though there are better ones out there today. Fortunately, through MIDI, my Casio can play a lot of other sampled pianos.
You can tune a piano in morning, when the room is heated later on, the piano will go out of tune necause the syrings expand with heat. When we tuned organs in church, the church had to be heated to normal service temperature
Now you know why pianos can be tuned and change of temp. can fetune it.
Sorry, it is detune
For the price the Yamaha P45 is fantastic for a cheap digital piano. But if you was doing this with a Yamaha CLP785 I think less people would be able to tell the difference.
what distinguises a digital" piano"from a simple keyboard is that it doesn't use any spring in its keyboard mechanism , but rather graded hammers.
Great video! It would be interesting to see future keyboards with some type of built in technology that could actually make the notes just ever so slightly out of tune or less "mediciney" so that is sounds more natural.
I liked and subscribed!
Hey Ed I enjoyed the comparison. I have a P125 and an upright Yamaha U3. I've even owned the later P515 which I enjoyed. In terms of recording the digitals of course so easy. For playing it's hard to even compare, once you've experienced all those vibrations and interactions between the notes not to mention the feel of real keys there's no comparison. I will say though a used digital was a great way 10 years ago to find I wanted to pursue playing even at the very modest level I do. Thanks Ed that's a lovely piano you have.
Seems like from what you’re writing that you sold the 515 and kept the 125.
Is that true?
If yes, why?
@@menachemelkayam153 Complicated, actually a lot of it was due to being in an apartment and then house. I did have a 515, then 125 and then went back to a 515. If you can afford and only have the space for a digital the 515 is super and far better.
@@OlliesSpace oh wow, interesting!
Ok ✅
Btw, I’m seeing allot of random comments all over about the action of the 515 being too much/heavy.
Is that something I should worry about or the action is fine?
@@menachemelkayam153 I would agree especially when compared to my real piano Yamaha U3 it feels a bit heavy. It's hard though as it's quite subjective, if you can try get to a shop and try out the keys.
@@OlliesSpace gotchu!
Ok, hopefully I’ll be able to try it out in a music store.
Thanks for your input!
I could hear the difference being a new piano player. I have yet to play on an acoustic but the largest advantage for me and the rest of my family is that you can plug headphones into a digital piano! And it’s easy to move around.
The sound that we hear here from the other side of the internet is digital and comes from the tiny speaker from the cellphone, so if it's possible to hear the difference from here, it means that the difference is huge.
I watch UA-cam with cellphone. I can tell the difference. I have digital baby grand AG-50. Have read harsh reviews so I went music store to compare to other brands. AG-50 was better than most similar priced ones. But those sounds are not as good as UA-cam reviewed. I am not picky but nothing satisfies me. I had no chance to play digital piano more then $5000. Haven’t seen one in person. Only on UA-cam.
I have grand piano and digital piano. The difference is very clear. Acoustic sounds imperfect and the harmony is more colorful and has much more dynamic range especially ppp , digital piano sounds clearer and always sounds perfect but simple narrow dynamic range
The grand piano is miked. Therefore, I hear a big difference in the amount of reverb. It almost sounds like the sustain pedal is being used. You can easily add some reverb to a digital keyboard. That might be some of the difference you are hearing.
The click from the sustain pedal switch gave it away! 😂 I thought all three were on the digital version although the depth of that bass tone at the end as well as the “resonance, sway and body” of the sound was very analogue sounding.
Kind regards
Anders
Sweden
Yeah I don't know what to do about that. People have commented on the clicking. No matter how high I raise the volume, or how far away I mic the P45 you can still hear it. BTW some of the clicking is the keys. They make noises too. The P45 does not have a line out so I'm stuck with it.
@@edting haha I actually started off listening for the particular key action sounds to help me figure out which one you made the recording on…😉 but again..I’m not the “average piano person“, so I think I’m disqualified to participate. 🤣
Kudos for the good video idea and the making of it. It’s surely an eye (ear) opener for many potential buyers out there! Sorry for not praising you for that in my initial post! Not very considerate of me.
@@edting by the way.. a tip: my kurzweil pedal didn’t make that click sound. (If I recall correctly.) it’s also very grand piano -like in feel and performance. I had three electrical pedals back then and one was terrible and was replaced.
The P45 is a budget model. I don't play a real grand day in day out and for my layman's ears the treble was quite authentic but the bass gave it again - sounds like it came out of a cheap set of speakers that's just too small.
Great video Ed. I've had the Yamaha P80 for about 20 years, and apart from replacing one sticky key, it's served me perfectly. My Korg Triton died a long time ago. And I'm excited to say that I've finally received my NP101is, albeit I'm still waiting for the HD4. I've had the encoders pre-installed, but TV no longer supply SkyTour. Any suggestions as an alternative? Many thanks...
I have the p-125 also great. But nothing like a good acostic piano. But as it is for me a comperisen between a great digital piano to a old terrible acostic, the digital wins every single time. Good luck!
I felt the vibration that the sound-wave creates in the wood, even more at the bass notes. how can we tell that a "glin glin glin" is the same with this vibration? I will buy a d.p. because of budget and space also not to need tuning (there is no one nearby my city) but I have to say it is waaaay different.
I just bought a Yamaha P45. I'm a beginner on a budget. I bought another cheaper Yamaha digital and the piano sound sounded weird. I play cello so I'm used to hearing real pianos. My budget didn't allow for that so I bought, what to me, sounded the most like a real piano. Yamaha uses recordings of their grand piano for the piano sound in their P45s and better digitals.
Real piano, even upright makes a lot more noise than not expensive digital. I played few years on digital and every time i sat at acoustic i was playing too many notes with pedal.
The difference is very easy hear even through the cheap tiny speakers in my samsung tablet. With good headphones, perhaps even someone not musically inclined could tell them apart. It's like a Meade ETX 90 Mak vs a Questar!
Good video, although comparing the C6 to a CLP digital would be a more interesting comparison. I often play my digital Yamaha with good quality headphones because the sound is so much better, and you can no long hear the cheaper action
Simply outstanding "review" and explanation.
I have a Kawai (1974) for which I paid not a small amount. Tuning it on a regular basis is not cheap.
I may not play for weeks, yet I can hear when it is out of tune.
Digital piano allows for significant cost savings, at the loss of a richer sound.
If you're not a professional piano player or teacher, digital is not a bad choice.
And, yes, the price of even good used pianos is much more than an acoustic.
They is different just on pick tone and it’s calm
Nothing beats a quality acoustic. Nothing. The best sounding acoustic pianos are up to taste, but it still sounds better than a digital.
Thank you for sharing this, really cool.
The important thing for me is how I feel when playing the instrument -- and with a digital it is never the feeling of a Steinway D -- but, with some of the newer ones, it comes close.
It does come close, George. See my comment above.
Nice analysis job
It is interesting to ask if we can use a digital piano to tune a acoustic piano.
Anybody try this way.
I was wondering if the highest notes sound the same on both pianos.
Very good comparison this gentleman brilliant and course a good musician knowing the difference. Would it help if you’re looking for a digital piano to save money and when something that sounds nice
The clicking gave it away. Real pianos don't click like that when pressing the sustain in pedal.
Great analysis. I could tell the digital piano lacked the sympathetic resonance, and yes there is a noted sterility to digital instruments. There are benefits too, of course.
i mean digital one sounds great but comparing them (on the phone) you can still hear the difference in sound
Maybe the digital would sound a lot better if you recorded it directly into your recorder rather than with a microphone?
Yes.
In some ways this is not a fair comparison. THere are other digital pianos that woul come much close to the Grand.. They have less "edge" and sound more natural - not - the price point is higher, but they are still aroun $2,000 as opposed to $50,000!
Impossible to compare as everyone is listening to it on their phone or computer. Stand on the room and the difference is like night and day.
I'm a big fan of digitals for all the other benefits and bang for buck it's a hard sell to justify a 20k+ acoustic but it would be wrong to say the sound is indistinguishable.
Sound emitting from vibrating strings resonating of one another and off the sound board is just can not replicated via vibrating membranes from speakers.
It comes with internal speakers, but it may become no contest when you plug these into a good PA, or use headphones.
My daughter resisted electronic pianos her whole life until this weekend. She has a Cristofori acoustic upright ($2500, a battle to keep it in tune), "too bright", voicing issues, etc. A Yamaha P-125 has her blown away, at only $700. She says that the action on the electric, is better than the (cheap) acoustic.
Don't underestimate the value of not having to even use microphones to record. Using a line-out, being "perfectly in tune" (which isn't as simple as it seems, because a correctly tuned piano is a microtonal compromise; not the perfectly 12-equidistant notes that an electric might be, to get some choice chords to be better in-tune).
We are seeing this phenomenon with guitar amplifiers now. It's so expensive to buy plane tickets for amp heads and cabinets and pedal boards, that a new generation of super-processors (basically made of military-grade radar-signal-processors) create tube amp simulations that are so compelling that even Metallica tours with these tiny digital processors plugged straight into PA systems now. It's the same technology that is driving keyboard synthesizers as well. (In fact, a Kemper amp and AccessVirus keyboard synth were made by the same guy, with the same technology. Sharc and TI DSP processors - signal specialized computers.)
You can make a neural network listen to a guitar amp and "steal" the tone as a patch. I'm pretty sure you can do the same for a piano at this point. At around $1000 to $5000, it's very very advanced right now. If you want something simple, you can get some of this great power for about $500.
i guessed correctly but if the main difference is a fuller sound, what will happen if the Yamaha is connected to an amplifier and big speakers? there's an idea for an experiment!
I could tell right away that it was a digital piano. I am a symphony cellist by trade and am an amateur piano player at best. The only digital piano that comes close to the real thing in my opinion is the Yamaha Avant Grand series N3x. However, the N3x sells for over $18,000.
Hey thanks for that. $18K is a lot for a digital instrument, but have you checked out the new CFX? It's $175,000!
what about the kontakt library sampled pianos on a midi keyboard
Wait the $50K grand piano sounds better than a $500 electric one??!! :o
OK what I know is that digital pianios sound good but they fail in one component. If you play jazz on real acoustic you be playing clised at some point. That means you are playing two notes a semitone apart and right next to one snother. This creates a great sound in jazs as there is at first a tension. The same clised chord on a dital piano will not creat the same effect. The reason I think is in the temperment of the instrument and the tuning. A real piano has three strings in the middle section. These strings have to be tuned ever so slightly out of tune to avoid "beating where resonces buid up to produce throbbing. In acoustic pianos jazz chords are more recignisable. Oh dear I've too much. Anyone elae get this?
Got it right! The opening to Chopin was a dead giveaway, the sound from digital pianos are too clinical when compared with a grand piano.
Definitely a difference, Lot more clearer.
Not a music expert but you can hear keys clicking on the electronic.
A stock Gasser vs A Top Fuel Dragster ............... which will impress you most?
Odd comparison ? Yes, I think so.
Too bad the P45 comes with that loud clicking sustain pedal. So it was easy to recognize all 3 music pieces were the digital. With a better and more silent pedal I think I would have been tricked.
1st ad 3rd were bad very cheap and thin very artificial sounding the 2nd actually wasnt too bad.
It's actually digital piano not keyboard since it has full 88keys
The main difference to me is the digital piano will always be heard through a speaker. You can't capture that difference in a video.
If he line out it would sound 4 times better than via the speakers and then into UA-cam. It is an unfair way to test. The acoustic, even a bad acoustic, will out perform small speakers regardless of the quality of the sample on a digital.
@@africanhistory Unless it's out of tune or there's some ringing
Echo and out of tune.
Yeah the experiment was compromised before it even began, the microphone quality is bad. Run the digital piano through a VST to match the ambient sound qualities of the room the grand piano is being played in, and mix in the sound of the keys being pressed. You'll still be able to tell but at least then the quality differences can be measured.
I have played for years, and I could tell right away which was digital and which was acoustic. Thanks for that demonstration. Nothing beats the real thing unless you are tight on budget and space.
You are comparing a 500$ one. Go up the price to a 2000-3000$ class kawaii, roland or casio then you will actually barely hear the difference. Well kawaii probably has the best sampling. While roland is more modulated. Go a little further into the hybrids then you probably won't hear a difference at all.
@@sagnikmaulik Agreed, the P45 isn't exactly the best sampled piano. But if you use high quality microphones in your comparison, more skilled players will still notice the difference. Because sampled is still sampled. It's difficult engineering duplicating the response of playing an expensive acoustic.
I think "tight on budget" is understating it a bit. I don't know anyone with enough spare cash lying around to put car/house money down on an instrument. Pretty much everyone I know can afford or already owns a pretty convincing sounding keyboard. I love that the technology has brought that within the reach of far more people now.
I acquired a Yamaha P-125 electronic piano a few weeks ago. I live in a smallish Manhattan apartment and would have difficulty accommodating a full-size acoustic piano. I was a conservatory graduate in piano many years ago, and am dreaming of re-acquiring the skills I had back then. I am having no problem working on the Yamaha from a pianist's standpoint. I do not feel deprived as a musician. I am slowly re-establishing the brain-finger connections and the electronic piano is producing a sound quality sufficient to hold my determination to continue.
Yeah, the C6 sounds fuller, richer, more intimate, etc. But is the difference worth $49,500? My son is a music ed and piano performance double major and it kills me that he can't own a quality baby grand. The prices are criminal.
It makes a difference for the performer ... even if they sound all the same... you can't replicate a grand action.
Your son is a student, dude. He's not the target buyer for a C6. A few years down the line, when he's got a seat in a band/orchestra and is bringing in the big bucks, he'll buy one for you to keep at your place when he visits and another at his place.
Really nice little concept and comparison. My wife bought me a Yamaha P45 this Fall to begin learning on and have to say I do love it. We had the room and could have afforded a conventional piano, and we almost nearly did a baby grand, but in the end I really gravitated to the space and the reduced level of commitment required by this little digital wonder, and the fact that it didn’t make such an overt statement in the house. In other words I wasn’t going to feel too guilty if I didn’t like practicing on any given day. I also love the fact that I can play wearing headphones, which by the way is a very satisfying experience, so as not to disturb her as I do my scales, and the fact that I can switch to another type of instrument (ie. electric piano, strings, or organ) to change up the feel and sound which has the added benefit of keeping my interest up while practicing. I do feel part of the perceived problem with the digital piano (P45 in this case) might just be the on board speakers which though quite adequate in a small room, sound a bit thin especially compared to the voluminous Yamaha Grand you compared it to. Headphones certainly ameliorate this issue, but I have considered adding a pair of decent powered monitors (speakers) just to have a more immersive experience when I play. Will probably do this once I’m a bit better, say in another year or so. If I do get a lot better, and am able to play real music like I hope to down the line the baby grand might still find home in our house. But until then I don’t see myself suffering from Grand Piano envy. Thanks so much for your comparison.
An honest review, I have the p45 as well, I'm thinking of also adding some powered speakers to enhance the sound
I have a Yamaha DGX-660. Similar to yours. About $800 cost. The major reason I want to upgrade to another digital maybe on $3000 dollars area is…….the key action. It’s night and day from a real acoustic piano. It’s far too light and as learner just 5 years in I need to change that.
Hey, it's been a year, have you upgraded the speakers yet?
@@SticknubI Have a p125 and 2 5” monitors. Also a Yamaha H series subwoofer which makes a huge listening difference
I have no musical background and thought the 2nd tune (2/3) was the real one, but was surprised to hear all 3 were from the digital.
TheRainMakerUSA , that’s exactly what I thought too?
Thats wack I thought the very same! Bizarre.
That was exactly my case.
Should have started with “Spoiler Alert”
I thought the same as well. I'm pretty sure the reason is that the second passage has far more notes being sustained at the same time, giving a much richer harmonic blend that the acoustic piano naturally creates with fewer notes.
The thing I notice between real and digital pianos is that there is lots more upper harmonics with real pianos. Although manufacturers have done a great deal with digital pianos they can't quite copy that sound. Real pianos have "attitude". If you play jazz and use closed voicings they don't sound the same on a digital piano and I've played a lot including vst instruments. I have a theory that its because the mid section of a real piano actually has three strings per note which have to be ever so slightly tuned "out" from one another to avoid "beating". this mean that when you play two notes next to one another a semi-tone apart there is actually 6 notes fighting one another. Its not an unpleasant sound but certainly has that jazzy tension built in. I have never heard this recreated on any digital piano.
P45 has a poorly sound engine. I can recognize it and also the clicks on the pedal.
so many liars here.
most of them have never played real piano, but they claim they can easily tell the difference?!
LOL
Possibly in this case, yes - however, if you pair a $500 midi controller with a very good piano VST like the 1955 Walker that clocks in at almost 200GB of samples, the difference would be hard to tell.
Samples are still samples. You have to realize hitting a piano key in different ways can produce different sounds. It's not just one sound. Slamming on a key, holding a key, staccato, using a pedal, etc. etc. Despite it being the same note, the keyboard has to mimic all of the sounds a real piano makes. And sampling is just a part of it.
@@toddfarkman2177 you can fit a lot of those examples into 200GB of samples if you have an entirely sampled digital piano. But I think most of the digital piano manufacturers nowadays use some kind of sound generating engine that generates the sound based on a ton of factors like the velocity they key is pressed with and how it is released.
I think the real issue is that in a full-size grand piano the entire body of the piano is vibrating and generating sound. And though you can take a lot of measurements and create a very good model of how the sound is made, when it comes to reproducing it there's a limit to how close you can get with a few relatively small speakers as compared to the big frame of a grand piano creating a complex sound.
It was always my dream to get an acoustic piano, but because we couldn't afford one, I've always practiced on a keyboard. My piano teacher has a Kawai grand piano, which I absolutely love. I have to say, there is a huge difference between them. You can feel and hear the richness of the grand piano, while the keyboard to me is much more plain in these senses.
One thing to take into consideration here is that if you record the digital piano with a microphone instead of directly recording the line-output, the sound will always appear crappy in the recording. If you do directly record it, it will be much harder to spot for the novice which is the real piano. Particularly if your real piano is tuned well and recorded with quality microphones and correct set-up.
There is a great documentary showing how Steinway pianos are made from start to finish...after you see that video, there is no question why they cost that much...absolutely amazing process
I could tell immediately that all three clips at the beginning were from the digital. It is "clinical," IMO nothing to do with tuning but more with the the lack of harmonic interaction between the different notes. Each note is individually sampled, and individually played back. The P-45 doesn't have a resonance engine to simulate the interaction of vibrations when multiple strings are struck.
I can hear the loud, plasticky keys of the digital piano very clearly.
Yes, and the paddle clicking. Real piano paddles don’t click.
Good point, I have heard some that sound like a kids play piano, however I have heard mine through a recording process that used Steinway sound fonts and a person that could really play. I still find it unnerving that a music technologist and a player could do that with my heap of junk. I would post it but copyright gets in the way.
Try compare with a range of digital piano instead of just the lower end product.
It would be more interesting comparing a higher end digital vs a grand piano.
Sounds 50.000 times better..
My peasant ears can't tell the difference... but I love all of it.
A year and a half after you posted this, I've finally watched it. I'm more interested in your astronomy videos, but I do play keyboards, and I've seen the C6 in the background of your videos, so I wanted to look at some of your music videos. This was the first of those.
A couple of things.
1. Sample size is important. On a $500 keyboard, even today with cheap memory pricing, you're still not going to get a lot of samples or multi-samples. The manufacturer is just not going to put that kind of time and effort into a $500 piece of gear. I have a Korg PA800, marketed in 2009, and I get a better piano sound than this newer P45. But, then again, when I bought my PA800, way back in 2009, it was seven times the price of the P45. Of course, it's more than a piano, it's an arranger keyboard.
2. Yamaha is notorious for adding effects to its samples. Technically, it is supposed to make it 'sound better', particularly if you're using the speakers in a room environment, but it is not the same as a acoustic instrument in a live setting, and it makes a difference.
3. When I was selling this stuff, way back in the 1980's, the Yamaha Clavinovas were probably the best thing on the market for home digital audio, and we had a blind player come by. He thought he was listening to an acoustic piano (this was back with digital sampling first came out and all the bugs had been ironed out). He sat down to play it, and he could tell it was not a real acoustic. Yamaha worked very hard on their 'Action Express' keybed and action, and it felt really nice. But, he noticed that it wasn't an acoustic action, and that the sound, albeit good, was not that of an acoustic piano. This was a $3,000+ piano back in the late 80s, not a $500 keyboard.
4. Unless you actually play an instrument, it's difficult to tell what is real and what is digital, and today's synths are much better than what they used to be. To get an idea, may I link to you Roberto Zeolla, who plays Yamaha's new, top of the line, $6,000 arranger keyboard, the Yamaha Genos. ua-cam.com/video/eeByvuYfAYE/v-deo.html Non Dimenticar. Listen to THIS piano and compare it to the current P45 piano. See what a difference there is.
Then, this video is from 2015, almost six years ago. THIS is the keyboard I want to replace my PA800 with, the Korg PA4X Pro 76 key. ua-cam.com/video/vocWSlaDcaE/v-deo.html This is an introduction to the keyboard, before it even came out. Korg has since released OS upgrades to it, which also include better samples. But, this is also a $4,600 keyboard.
I want to know if the speakers and samples/sounds of the digital are at all comparable in a direct comparison. So have you played your digital piano and you grand side by side to check the volume and resonance of the $5K instrument and the $500 instrument through the various ranges? I've noticed a difference in the resonance in different ranges between various digital pianos. But do they even project like a grand or any type of acoustic piano for that manor?
COOL STUFF 🎹
I meant $50k lol
I think getting the digital piano works out great for you or your children to learn. If you stick with it and study serious then upgrade to the more expensive piano.
I think you picked the wrong digital piano for the comparison. If you ever get a chance to sample Casio's PX C1000 or the C3000, take the time and do it. But, be sure to hook the digital piano to a sound system that includes a decent subwoofer and a pair or more of good-sounding full-range speakers. Then do your comparison concentrating on sound and keyboard touch. I think you will be completely surprised.
I do not have an idea how you recorded these pianos but the sound of Yamaha C7 and Yamaha digital piano (P-225), I play, is completely different when I record them. Dramatically different. By the way, I have had 8 digital pianos so far (including Roland FP-90x and Yamaha P-515 - I also use piano VSTs) and I was never happy with any of them. Yamaha C7 is a real thing!
It is all dependent how you record the piano!
Sonically, the P-45 was not far off from an acoustic. It sounded very good! What gave it away for me was the unevenness of the playing. I could tell that the action was not very advanced because it was affecting technique and rhythm.
As I'm typing this, I hear the C6. Acoustics have impurities in the sound that give it more of that humanity. Nice playing!
Hi, Ed, I watched a piano piece played by "Ed Ting", but I could not tell if the pianist also doing astrophotography. Now, I know that you have many talents. Can you cook too?
Absolutely! Of course, one can hear the difference! The real acoustic piano sounds a little out of tune and has excessive resonance, in other words, it sounds imperfect, no matter how expensive it is. :)))
Interesting... on the first run-through I felt that the first and last pieces were the digital, and I wasn’t sure about the Chopin. However, when you did a direct comparison, the Yamaha C6 stood out. However, having said that, there are some much higher quality algorithms out there that probably could come very close... but, then I have a 6’1” Falcone parlor grand (the Boston Falcone, NOT the later Chinese one that really was a generic Chinese “stencil” piano.)
It was quieter I believe. Plus it sounded different in the high mids. Maybe that's what tricked you. But I was listening to the pedal because it was noisy and clearly stood out to me.
I had the same guess lol but the difference with the grand piano in the comparison was enormous, no contest
Now, it’s three years after my original comment… and I still feel exactly the same.
@@TucsonBillD--This is the 1st time I've seen this video, and I felt the same way you did. The 2nd piece had more of a "percussive" sound.
Not a musician, but its the resonance of the real thing that is missing from the digital. They recreate the sound of the string probably perfectly, but, what about the frame holding the strings? The wood structure, etc?
The tuning bit is potentially solved by adding back a small amount of wander digitally. I believe they do something similar on some of their new digital/analog hybrid synths.
Given the $/space tradeoff, the digital is still really good though. In the first example I figured 1 and 3 were the keyboard, but 2 I was on the fence.
As a non-musician, the direct comparison showed a very marked difference to my ears. There's really no contest.
The initial three examples, I tried to tell if there was a difference (in tone) between them, but they were all the same. Even the background sounds (the clicks of the keys?) were the same. The direct comparison again showed a marked difference in those background sounds.
Very interesting comparison.
Chalk and cheese, day and night!
How can any salesperson claim they are indistinguishable? The harmonics alone are impossible in sampled digital technology.
Great video and playing, thank you.
The sound of the P45 can be further improved by saturating it with low even harmonics. Using a Class A tube amplifier and low headroom.
But then $ 500 is too small a budget. It could fit in $ 1,000.
Obviously, it has no chance with an acoustic piano, but the differences will be inaudible. They will, however, be felt when playing P45 vs C6.
There is a noticeable difference. But the more important question is whether the difference makes it sound better? I'd say no; or more to the point, it doesn't matter to me. They sound equivalent to me.
I own a Yamaha P95. Today I was recording an idea for a song and because I don't have a good audio interface, I often leave the monitoring off and go with the P95's own sound and this time was no different. Once the part is recorded, a virtual piano -- much better than the P95 -- in my computer reproduces it. I was having a little problem, because even though I was depressing the pedal at each new chord, the previous chord was bleeding into the next. Then it struck me that the P95 doesn't feature sympathetic resonance, but the virtual piano does.
Interesting comparison. But i think that it would be fair to output the sound of the digital piano to a reasonably priced and good sounding keyboard amplifier or piano monitor.
There would still remain a huge price difference but not so much sound quality gap between them imho.
The recording quality is very poor. So the digitlal thing can hide it's inadequacies.
It's not about the listeners decition, the player has to decide how much the instrument reveals possibilites to express himself.
The song played does not really challenge the cheap digital dummy.
A real piano gives us specifications about timing, directness and dynamic truth that definately still are not reachable with digital solutions built until 2024.
Anybody does not believe that? Why do serious world class pianists, especially also Jazz artists play on real pianos like a Steinway D (if available)?
Playing a serious enjoyable concert on such a digital Yamaha thing would just be ridiculous, or let's say it would just not happen, because the artist would take flight.
But still as someone said, it's better than having no piano at home. Sad, that companies after so many years still sell so much cheap stuff, being sure, that most players trust and buy it innocently.
the entire comparison is bs. For one his mic is clipping so bad and he did not record the pianos equally. Clearly an acoustic would win, but his set up makes the p45 worst than it really is. Kind of like those before and after make up ads. where the before is frowning taken with an cheap phone and the after is smiling with studio photography.
To me both of them sound like my shit smartphone speaker.
😅😂🤣😹
My first Blind listen(I thought you were playing 2 pieces with #1 piano, and playing the Other piano in a Random order to show the difference), I chose the Grand on the 2nd piece, because it had more of a "percussive" sound. The Next Demo: Easy. It's why Acoustic musicians(unamplified jazz/classical) "normally" don't have great home stereos, because they ALREADY know what the Real Thing sounds like. Even on a Laptop/UA-cam, when you have a High Quality audio system at home, you can tell if music is being played on a High or Low quality system.
Yamaha is constantly making improvements to their C grands so your C6 is not going to be the same as the current C6X offered for sale. Unfortunately, the price of wood and labor has increased dramatically these last few years which gets reflected in the price.
No matter how well digital pianos are made, you can always hear how artificial the piano sounds from the speakers. It doesn’t have the full and warm tone you get from a regular acoustic piano.
This was very easy for me because I have a Casio digital piano a Steinway piano and I have The absolute best virtual piano software there is ,the Vienna symphonic Steinway midel D.. I'm not sure how you recorded the digital piano but if you recorded it from the speakers that right there is a dead giveaway. If you recorded it into a DAW you could definitely modify the sound with EQ and other things to make it sound closer to the grand piano. Speaking of virtual piano software you cannot tell the difference between the Vienna symphonic stuff and some of the other really high-end virtual piano software from a real piano.
I have a Kawai digital piano and the feel and sound when wearing headphones is pretty close to the grand piano in my music school
$50,000?! They both sound horrible! But the grand is slightly less horrible than the digital... The grand is particularly disappointing, with quite a dead sound. With $50,000 in the bank (I wish!), I would buy a secondhand Steinway.
Excellent video and a fascinating discussion! For me, it seems as if the current digital acoustic piano sampling sound and digital acoustic piano modeling sound that comes out of a speaker always makes my ears bleed. Gimmicks. My ears will not pretend that a digital acoustic piano sound is the authentic sound of an acoustic piano. And, if I was fortunate enough to own a twenty year old Yamaha C6 acoustic grand piano with the current retail price at $56K, I would not give it up even if someone offered 100 P-45's (at retail $500 each=$50K) in an even trade for my C6. On the other hand, I am all in for the sampled and modeled iconic electric pianos of the past. Awesome! I love them all! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. And, I am also all in for the sampled and modeled iconic analog synthesizers of the past. Awesome! I love all of them, too! Their sound quality and reliability: improved. But, nothing digital that comes out of a speaker has to date matched the genuine sound of a properly regulated, well tempered, consistently tuned acoustic piano. :)
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It's physics! A 4" full-range speaker just can't sound like a grand piano. Grand pianos are a half-ton of wood and steel...you can hear it's internal workings, the subtle tap of the keys, the sound of the box, and its volume. Music is more than frequency and amplitude - why does each piano have it's own sound? The interaction of hundreds of parts and sheer mass produces the pianos sound...the digital has perhaps a gram or two of cone material actually reproducing sound...emphasis on the RE-producing - while I admit the digital piano is a technological marvel, even the best are parlor tricks. There is a physical connection and feedback loop when playing the C6 that can't realistically be replicated by the P45. I'm speaking mostly about playing each piano in real time, while recording is an altogether different kettle of worms. The salesman's claim of the digital being indistinguishable from a grand is probably the statement of a man drowning in false equivalence, with Spam essentially the same as Prosciutto and Bingo Spumante no different from Dom Perignon. I may be an old snob, but damnit - vive la différence!