I remember attending this event with a special book by the Tudor Tailor Wonders several years ago. The item was a sleeve done on the puffs done with internal bents that had just been discovered in a Stately Home attic! The picture of this courtroom brought many warm memories of the gentle care taken of an American who was feeling deathly ill after a poor airline crossing from Oregon, US. I’m particularly happy to find this on-line because even though I am sitting behind the ladies on the lower left, I remember almost nothing through the illness.
I am in my seventies, I remember in my early childhood days in the north of England seeing the rag and bone man coming round the streets collecting old clothes and rags in his horse and cart. The ragman would give a ‘donkey stone’ in exchange for the rags. A donkey stone was made of a very hard abrasive substance that when moistened turned into a kind of cream coloured paste, it was used to clean stone doorsteps and window ledges etc. It was a common sight to see women on their hands and knees scouring their doorsteps, it was a matter of pride by the working class to keep their houses looking spotless in those days. One of the many old adages of my grandmothers was “always keep your step clean as there’s more passes by than comes in”.
This is such a strange time to live in when living memories can recall things from a time before industry changed almost everything about our lives ❤️ Thank you for sharing!
That is FASCINATING. Thank you for sharing this examination. I can only imagine how excited the examiner must have been when presented with this singular piece.
So interesting and instructive ! When we think of this era, we often stop at the events and don't reflect on daily life. THIS is the part of history that fascinates me !
I am rather amused by the member of the "Jury" knitting away during the lecture. When I am attending non-clothing related conferences or lectures, usually it is only me crafting away in the corner!
That was such a delightful thing to witness. Even back in school, I wish we had been allowed to do that kind of thing. I was regularly scolded for just doodling or making little paper balls from scraps. Back then (1990's) it wasn't exactly common knowledge, that some people can focus are lot better when their hands are busy.
I was going to comment on that too! I love to have a knitting project with me anywhere I'll need to be sitting for a while - doctors' offices and so on. Props to the "knitting juror"!
The thing that stands out the most for me was how compactly the piece could be stored. When you see a painting with people from that time period in huge puffy sleeves and gowns, you can’t help but wonder how much room it would take to store the clothing. But this sleeve really demonstrates how the garment’s construction made it quite practical to store. And immediately functional with providing volume when opened out. Absolutely fascinating, and fun to see an expert experience see in for the first time.
What a delightful event. Must be so nice to be able, to attend something like this in person. I have never even been to an exhibition showing historical garments.
Extremely interesting and educational. Thankyou. I've seen these sleeves in paintings, but had no idea they were concertina and boned. How amazing. How different to modern 21st century sleeves. Xx
I love this woman's hair along with her presentation. I'm a guy who enjoys short hair on women. I so appreciate those who work on preserving amazing artefacts like this.
I found this fascinating....the history behind clothing of that century. Now I understand why so few examples are available in clothing (unless they were forgotten in a chest!) The recycling of the clothing made sense since this was before fabric was machine woven. So it was an absolute must for the fabrics to be used again and again until they were thoroughly beyond recycling. So would you say that we need to be most thankful for those forgotten chests? 😅 I feel as if that if it wasn't for the absentminded people that tucked clothing away for another day, we would not have the treasures of attire that are currently on display in various museums!
As an engineer, my first thought for the reinforcements is wire. Steel rather than iron. Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for the discussion of why things don't survive.
Wire was sometimes used for sleeve supports. We know this becuase it was forbidden to maidservants in early seventeenth century legislation! The whalebone in these sleeves is probably the earliest example of it in use in an English garment, which is very exciting!
According to the "Wool Wire" email newsletter from Clara Parkes, farmers and gardeners are now rediscovering how useful waste wool can be as a mulch. (Although in the newsletter, the "waste wool" referred to seemed to be mostly coarse, poor quality wool unsuitable for use in garments or handknitting yarns, not the end use of endlessly repurposed woolen cloth.)
It's so funny, how the thing looks like the discarded 'shell' of a giant butterfly larvae or other insect. Especially with the way she's carefully handling it with gloved hands. Felt like watching a biology lecture at times 😅
Since this seems the only surviving example of a farthingale sleeve support, what is going to become of it now? Does it belong to a museum? It's an amazing find.
It is in a private collection where it is being well looked after. The owner has been very generous with allowing us access to make a pattern and analyse the materials. Find the results in our book 'The Typical Tudor'.
I blame the moths! I've just discovered I've lost two suits to the bastards. Olive and Partingtons (Viscount Doverdale) in Glossop, Derbyshire made paper from rags into the C20th.
This was an interesting lecture! Now that you think it’s a sleeve support, what’s next? How to tell how old it is? A 15th century or a late Victorian sleeve support? And why were you there? Did the court want to know what it was and how old it appears?
The sleeve is a late 16th century farthingale sleeve. This is a garment we have quite a lot of documentary evidence for but, until now, no surviving examples were known. The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress to a jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Oooh! A sleeve support seems quite appropriate. How was it fastened to the rest of the clothing? Was it attached to a pair of bodies? Tied? Hooked? Buttoned? Was the narrow end at the shoulder or at the wrist…was it worn reversible end to end? Evidence of sweat stains?
@@elisabethm9655 As far as we can tell it was slipped inside an outer sleeve and stayed in place without the need for ties or pins. We have a pattern, reconstruction and photos of it in wear in our latest book shop.tudortailor.com/products/the-typical-tudor-reconstructing-everyday-16th-century-dress
We have a fairly good idea of who the owner may have been. There is an article by Ninya in 'Costume' the journal of the Costume Society www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/cost.2024.0284
The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress in front of a judge and jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Though there is no practical reason for the fashion our reconstructions have shown that they are extremely lightweight and comfortable to wear. They may well provide an element of insulation and protection for the cold, but that was not their purpose.
@@TheTudorTailor It might be interesting to compare the fashion for farthingales and the incidence of frost fairs and mini ice ages - do they coincide? With the farthingale protecting the space within, it's the quality of the material over it that would be providing the insulation. If we get a cold winter, it would be a wonderful excuse for you to dress up in this type period costume and see how comfortable it is and take temperature measurements. Just a thought . . . for fun !
She's brilliant, but why is she so nonchalant? If this were my field and I had the chance to (surprise) open a box with an item -- "the only known surviving example" -- I think I'd be absolutely astounded. Had she already known that this farthingale sleeve had been discovered? Or was this the first that she learned of its existence?
No one in the courtroom except Ninya and me (The Tudor Tailor) and the owner of the textile collection to which this sleeve belongs knew what was in this box. The museum curator was very brave to agree to do this before a live audience with absolutely no knowledge of what she would be seeing. She did a fantastic job and you could have heard a pin drop in the courtroom. She is a well-respected dress researcher with huge experience of handling original items. The sleeve is made of fustian, which is a robust textile, which we knew could take handling in this way. We asked her to demonstrate her process when she is confronted with an item she hasn't seen before. She takes her time and doesn't make assumptions or jump to conclusions. Holding back her excitement before she has run through her checklist is part of that process too. A week later the BBC showed the farthingale sleeve in an epidote of the 'Antiques Roadshow' at Wollaston Hall in Nottingham. They had held back the episode so that we could reveal it at our 'Missing Persons' conference to launch 'The Typical Tudor'.
She had no idea what to expect and was remarkably game for being put on the spot in front of an audience and a video camera. Her approach was supremely methodical and professional and she was very careful not to jump to conclusions. She really was astounded and confessed as much later on in the conferecne when she'd had a chance to consider what she'd just seen and let it sink in!
The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress in front of a judge and jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Current practice is not to wear gloves unless metallic threads are present. Clean, un-gloved hands are more sensitive and are less likely to do damage.
I remember attending this event with a special book by the Tudor Tailor Wonders several years ago. The item was a sleeve done on the puffs done with internal bents that had just been discovered in a Stately Home attic! The picture of this courtroom brought many warm memories of the gentle care taken of an American who was feeling deathly ill after a poor airline crossing from Oregon, US. I’m particularly happy to find this on-line because even though I am sitting behind the ladies on the lower left, I remember almost nothing through the illness.
I am in my seventies, I remember in my early childhood days in the north of England seeing the rag and bone man coming round the streets collecting old clothes and rags in his horse and cart. The ragman would give a ‘donkey stone’ in exchange for the rags. A donkey stone was made of a very hard abrasive substance that when moistened turned into a kind of cream coloured paste, it was used to clean stone doorsteps and window ledges etc. It was a common sight to see women on their hands and knees scouring their doorsteps, it was a matter of pride by the working class to keep their houses looking spotless in those days. One of the many old adages of my grandmothers was “always keep your step clean as there’s more passes by than comes in”.
What a lovely story, Rosemary.
That's awesome. I love hearing extra context from viewers. That door stone scrubbing instantly made me think of Snow White.
This is such a strange time to live in when living memories can recall things from a time before industry changed almost everything about our lives ❤️ Thank you for sharing!
I've read of what you write, but hearing someone remember first hand is a history treasure. You've brought words to life. Thank you.🌹
That is FASCINATING. Thank you for sharing this examination.
I can only imagine how excited the examiner must have been when presented with this singular piece.
So interesting and instructive ! When we think of this era, we often stop at the events and don't reflect on daily life. THIS is the part of history that fascinates me !
I am rather amused by the member of the "Jury" knitting away during the lecture. When I am attending non-clothing related conferences or lectures, usually it is only me crafting away in the corner!
That was such a delightful thing to witness. Even back in school, I wish we had been allowed to do that kind of thing. I was regularly scolded for just doodling or making little paper balls from scraps.
Back then (1990's) it wasn't exactly common knowledge, that some people can focus are lot better when their hands are busy.
I was going to comment on that too! I love to have a knitting project with me anywhere I'll need to be sitting for a while - doctors' offices and so on. Props to the "knitting juror"!
I take my knitting everywhere.
I saw her too ! I am her too !
I found this absolutely fascinating,thank you 😊
How neat ❤My mother loved construction ❤️This was lovely to watch
The thing that stands out the most for me was how compactly the piece could be stored. When you see a painting with people from that time period in huge puffy sleeves and gowns, you can’t help but wonder how much room it would take to store the clothing. But this sleeve really demonstrates how the garment’s construction made it quite practical to store. And immediately functional with providing volume when opened out. Absolutely fascinating, and fun to see an expert experience see in for the first time.
Fascinating talk! I learned a lot. That sleeve is so well preserved. I wonder where it was stored for the last 4 centuries.
Man. I would've lost my grip, seeing that. Madam Curator just so dug in! Amazing. ❤
What a delightful event. Must be so nice to be able, to attend something like this in person. I have never even been to an exhibition showing historical garments.
Extremely interesting and educational. Thankyou. I've seen these sleeves in paintings, but had no idea they were concertina and boned. How amazing. How different to modern 21st century sleeves. Xx
Very very interesting, thank you Tudor Tailor for sharing this with us. 😊
I love this woman's hair along with her presentation. I'm a guy who enjoys short hair on women. I so appreciate those who work on preserving amazing artefacts like this.
I found this fascinating....the history behind clothing of that century. Now I understand why so few examples are available in clothing (unless they were forgotten in a chest!) The recycling of the clothing made sense since this was before fabric was machine woven. So it was an absolute must for the fabrics to be used again and again until they were thoroughly beyond recycling.
So would you say that we need to be most thankful for those forgotten chests? 😅 I feel as if that if it wasn't for the absentminded people that tucked clothing away for another day, we would not have the treasures of attire that are currently on display in various museums!
My first thought was that it was a shaping garment for those big Elizabethan sleeves.
Me too
Very interesting with lots of information I didn’t know especially about recycling the fabrics
Fascinating. I work in the legal field and enjoyed her examination of the garment, and the Judge was very entertaining - judicial gloves 😂
As an engineer, my first thought for the reinforcements is wire. Steel rather than iron.
Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for the discussion of why things don't survive.
Wire was sometimes used for sleeve supports. We know this becuase it was forbidden to maidservants in early seventeenth century legislation! The whalebone in these sleeves is probably the earliest example of it in use in an English garment, which is very exciting!
Very interesting! It's amazing well preserved. Thank you for sharing this video, I enjoyed it very much. New subscriber from Texas.
That was fabulous!!! Thank you so much for sharing it.
Wonderful, thanks for posting this! I’m very interested in garments and textiles.
Excellent presentation. Thank you for sharing!
Could the rings be willow splints?
Also, is anyone else reminded of the Michelin Man?
We now know that the hoops are 'whalebone' or baleen. Withies were sometimes used in farthingale petticoats and may have also been used in sleeves.
I wanted to say it looked like a Sorting Hat! It's definitely a sleeve base of some sort.
According to the "Wool Wire" email newsletter from Clara Parkes, farmers and gardeners are now rediscovering how useful waste wool can be as a mulch. (Although in the newsletter, the "waste wool" referred to seemed to be mostly coarse, poor quality wool unsuitable for use in garments or handknitting yarns, not the end use of endlessly repurposed woolen cloth.)
Old wool garments were also used for calking in ships. The Viking ships used this.
Im wondering if 300 years from now my underwear will end up in a courtroom being examined and explained to a jury.
It's so funny, how the thing looks like the discarded 'shell' of a giant butterfly larvae or other insect. Especially with the way she's carefully handling it with gloved hands. Felt like watching a biology lecture at times 😅
Since this seems the only surviving example of a farthingale sleeve support, what is going to become of it now? Does it belong to a museum? It's an amazing find.
It is in a private collection where it is being well looked after. The owner has been very generous with allowing us access to make a pattern and analyse the materials. Find the results in our book 'The Typical Tudor'.
A little painstaking to watch 😅😅 but still interesting 😅😅 ❤
That is fascinating!
Fascinating.
I'd love to attend a class in a room like this
I blame the moths! I've just discovered I've lost two suits to the bastards. Olive and Partingtons (Viscount Doverdale) in Glossop, Derbyshire made paper from rags into the C20th.
This was an interesting lecture! Now that you think it’s a sleeve support, what’s next? How to tell how old it is? A 15th century or a late Victorian sleeve support?
And why were you there? Did the court want to know what it was and how old it appears?
The sleeve is a late 16th century farthingale sleeve. This is a garment we have quite a lot of documentary evidence for but, until now, no surviving examples were known. The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress to a jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Oooh! A sleeve support seems quite appropriate. How was it fastened to the rest of the clothing? Was it attached to a pair of bodies? Tied? Hooked? Buttoned? Was the narrow end at the shoulder or at the wrist…was it worn reversible end to end? Evidence of sweat stains?
I thought perhaps you were being pranked, and it was a sleeve from Robby the Robot! 😂
@@elisabethm9655 As far as we can tell it was slipped inside an outer sleeve and stayed in place without the need for ties or pins. We have a pattern, reconstruction and photos of it in wear in our latest book shop.tudortailor.com/products/the-typical-tudor-reconstructing-everyday-16th-century-dress
I´ve seen those sleeves in paintings, probably dutch, can´t remember exactly...
Looks like a sleeve. In those days dress parts were interchangeable.
I think about the person who wore it. Who were they. What was their life like. 🙂
We have a fairly good idea of who the owner may have been. There is an article by Ninya in 'Costume' the journal of the Costume Society www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/cost.2024.0284
Facinating
Why the judge?
The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress in front of a judge and jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Would such a large volume of air trapped around an arm help to insulate it against the cold? Was there a practical reason for this fashion?
Though there is no practical reason for the fashion our reconstructions have shown that they are extremely lightweight and comfortable to wear. They may well provide an element of insulation and protection for the cold, but that was not their purpose.
@@TheTudorTailor It might be interesting to compare the fashion for farthingales and the incidence of frost fairs and mini ice ages - do they coincide? With the farthingale protecting the space within, it's the quality of the material over it that would be providing the insulation. If we get a cold winter, it would be a wonderful excuse for you to dress up in this type period costume and see how comfortable it is and take temperature measurements. Just a thought . . . for fun !
Could it be a prototype or sample that was made as a display of someone’s supreme sewing skill or something???
She's brilliant, but why is she so nonchalant? If this were my field and I had the chance to (surprise) open a box with an item -- "the only known surviving example" -- I think I'd be absolutely astounded. Had she already known that this farthingale sleeve had been discovered? Or was this the first that she learned of its existence?
No one in the courtroom except Ninya and me (The Tudor Tailor) and the owner of the textile collection to which this sleeve belongs knew what was in this box. The museum curator was very brave to agree to do this before a live audience with absolutely no knowledge of what she would be seeing. She did a fantastic job and you could have heard a pin drop in the courtroom. She is a well-respected dress researcher with huge experience of handling original items. The sleeve is made of fustian, which is a robust textile, which we knew could take handling in this way. We asked her to demonstrate her process when she is confronted with an item she hasn't seen before. She takes her time and doesn't make assumptions or jump to conclusions. Holding back her excitement before she has run through her checklist is part of that process too. A week later the BBC showed the farthingale sleeve in an epidote of the 'Antiques Roadshow' at Wollaston Hall in Nottingham. They had held back the episode so that we could reveal it at our 'Missing Persons' conference to launch 'The Typical Tudor'.
She had no idea what to expect and was remarkably game for being put on the spot in front of an audience and a video camera. Her approach was supremely methodical and professional and she was very careful not to jump to conclusions. She really was astounded and confessed as much later on in the conferecne when she'd had a chance to consider what she'd just seen and let it sink in!
@@TheTudorTailorI saw that episode of Antiques Roadshow so I immediately recognised it. Good job she donned the gloves.
Judge and jury? Has a crime been committed?😅
The courtroom drama was part of our launch event for The Typical Tudor book which was held in the National Justice Museum in Nottingham. We were presenting the evidence for ordinary dress in front of a judge and jury to see if they thought we had enough to say we knew what the Typical Tudor looked like.
Or it is a Farthingale sleeve
Wouldn’t she be wearing gloves regardless?!?!?
Current practice is not to wear gloves unless metallic threads are present. Clean, un-gloved hands are more sensitive and are less likely to do damage.