When I was little, Doctor Who was the scary show, the dangerous show, the naughty show that you wouldn't want to admit to watching to your teachers. Imagine if it went back to being like that; the kids would flock to it. They'd love it! Sadly, at the moment it's the silly and safe and stupid show. And what kid wants to watch that?
Lots of excellent points made and very incisive discussion from a panel that really knows their stuff. The danger though (and I speak as a 67 year old with a UA-cam channel devoted to Classic TV and Movies) is that we start to sound like a bunch of old farts lamenting the demise of "the good old days" There is absolutely no doubt that the current series of Doctor Who has not only failed to capture the public's imagination it has actively alienated existing fans by pursuing an agenda and openly attempted to groom children into acceptance of its doctrine. More than that it has completely abandoned everything that made it unique in favour of style over substance. I use the word style loosely. The Disney budget has enabled opportunities to enhance the show that have totally been pissed away with CGI Dinosaurs and Snot Monsters. Not to mention talking babies, farting spaceships and a CGI dog in the finale. To quote Victor Meldrew " I don't believe it" DAMN! I AM an Old Fart lamenting the good old days. Or as my younger friends love to say "BOOMER"
Great show. Many thanks, Brendan, Philip, Simon, Rachael and Mike. I agree with Philip; in New Who the Doctor has become too much of a hero character, who knows that he's the moral crusader in his own adventures. But maybe that's a consequence of his lifestyle, of his having had so many adventures in which he taken a moral stance and fought against injustice. He's realised that that is what he does. And I appreciate Simon's viewpoint on the Timeless Children and how it meant to cast a fresh perspective on the character for a young audience. Following on from both of these viewpoints, I think a solution would be to have the Doctor forget who he is, for him just to be a man travelling through time and space in a machine that he can't remember how to work properly, and whose moral stance is rebuilt by the new dilemmas he faces week after week. (I may have made a comment similar to this once before.) He could keep hearing about this person called the Doctor, and he gets called the Doctor, being mistaken for him, and he could come to use the name as his alias, in lieu of his own name that he can no longer remember. And all the while, those watching would know who he really is. Children who don't know him at all could become invested in him rediscovering himself, while parents would know, and nudge their children when this Doctor meets the Daleks for the first time. The audience would know that the Doctor was walking into danger before he did. The new child audience would have an inkling of the past Doctors from what their parents have told them, and the family would watch to see how this new Doctor deals with things, and to see if he is still able extricate himself from the danger. The Doctor could be duped into believing that the Daleks are good and help them, picking the wrong side, setting up future problems, and a realisation of the consequences of his mistakes in the season finale. There are ways to give a fresh slant on the central concept of the man travelling through time and space in a box. Nothing about the character's past needs to be undermined or changed. It needs to be looked at in new ways that make both the concept and the character interesting again. Have him making mistakes, less assured as the hero, but working out as he goes what is right and wrong, helping where he can, a hero of sorts, but fallible and unpredictable. And then the show can return to being the broad appeal success that it ought to be. But, yes, first it does need to take a rest, for a few years at least, for the memory of recent series to fade from the public consciousness.
I loved our return to the big Sunday live debate and what a great contribution Philip was. I was honoured that he came on and he gave his moneysworth. Passion and conviction and wise words!
Further to Philip's comment that the BBC now owns the copyright to the Daleks... That will have been a lot of money spent in expectation of a return on their investment. Bearing that in mind, is Season Three more likely, even without Disney's involvement? Or, if production does cease, doesn't it make a resumption of production after a break of some years even more likely? Otherwise, that'd be a lot of money flushed down the toilet.
they willl get all the money on merch though, i dont think the show is that important when it comes to the expense of buying the rights to the most iconic dr who villain
While I appreciate emotive online argument I don't think it's fair to say that anyone involved in making Dr Who has ever hated it, whether in its classic, relaunch or latest form. I think it is fair to say that the ways they're going about managing the show nowadays are very regrettable. I'd go further and say, as someone who can claim the stripes since I can dimly remember the final gasps of Troughton, grew up with Pertwee and Baker while experiencing the earlier stuff through Target books and retained a deep fondness for the show thereafter, that it's always been interesting but never really all that important. I'd go yet further - just because something has become an institution doesn't mean it must continue, nor do I need to care what people do with it after my time. I don't have oddly glued and badly painted Spitfires hanging from my ceiling anymore and my parents didn't have sticks and hoops fondly displayed on their shelves...
Hate is a short verb to suit the space of a thumbnail and I know you all appreciate I usually allow full debate within a theme. This time was slightly different as I was pushing a case a bit more. Hate helps get the point across at pace but I agree it cannot be proven somewhat though the collective treatment of classic who in interviews, plot, dialogue and editing does tend to show a disrespect for classic who
Do others notice that RTD is increasingly resembling the Abzorbaloff from Love and Monsters? Certainly, is his appearance. All those faces attached to his body remind me of all those he has destroyed with his personal agenda of driven egotistical need to feed. In this case RTD seems to like nothing more than attacking and devouring anyone who does not share his most extreme thoughts of utter lunacy. Davros named the Doctor the Destroyer of Worlds. I think that rather tame upon reflection. Surely RTD has done a better job and doing primarily through his non-acceptance of diverse opinion, his disregard for science and his constant need to have his ego fed. His and Colinson's frequent statements beginning with 'In My eyes I would like to belief...' to then proceed with whatever tosh is infuriating. Tosh that rewrites key and important platforms of the show’s premise with throw away lines a 5-year-old might come up with. However childish their pompous and disrespectful diatribe is to others it remains a very effective and divisive way to upset and offend those they choose deserving of ridicule. It is their superiority complex that has done more harm to DW than anything Michael Grade or Mary Whitehouse ever did. I Davros name RTD and Colinson the Destroyers of DW, with some assistance from Mr. Tennant himself.
Far worse than confining themselves to simply hating classic Doctor Who, I think that Davies and his associates pity it. I think that they genuinely believe that the classic format, one which has unequivocally proven itself to be that most robust of templates, is inadequate, needing to be rebuked by repeated comparisons with the current white male-hating, LGBTQ-promoting pastiche of itself. The fact that the show has been all-too-readily handed to someone who can treat it so is proof enough of how imperilled is its current televised version, and the increasingly forlorn hope that Davies will either see reason himself, or be convinced by his peers, has never had any basis other than in wishful thinking. Those glory days when impressive ratings and AIs provided an exclusive metric by which a showrunner/production team were judged and retained are gone, to be replaced by an era where virtue signalling and promotion of minority ideologies is deemed to be of far greater societal worth. Such an ethos in no way lends itself to Davies being ousted. He will stop when he has either 'spread the word' to his satisfaction, or when, in keeping with the spoiled, petulant creature he has become, tires of not being listened to and demands the keys to another toy room. Many thanks, Brendan, Philip, Simon, and Rachael, for taking the time to objectively assess not only the woeful current situation, but also some meaningful solutions. All the best for now. Paul
Wonderful video. I'll say rest it for a while. We all like to point fingers at the production team for the problems with Dr. Who but BBC are complicit in spreading the current political message as well. So, nothing will change until they stop pushing their agender. But get rid of RTD and crew. Get a new team of science fiction writers, not fans, that understand the concept of the show. Yeah, and have a Dr. Who bible, so to speak for them to follow.
The bbc are certainly complicit and never seem to have known what to do with Dr Who. They seem to love getting it off their hands and looking the other way
When I was little, Doctor Who was the scary show, the dangerous show, the naughty show that you wouldn't want to admit to watching to your teachers. Imagine if it went back to being like that; the kids would flock to it. They'd love it! Sadly, at the moment it's the silly and safe and stupid show. And what kid wants to watch that?
I just think RTD is missing a trick
@ I really must book that eye test. I thought you said that RTD was a missing link.
Really? In the 1960s my playground was full of Yeti and seaweed monsters. We were OUT and proud.
Lots of excellent points made and very incisive discussion from a panel that really knows their stuff. The danger though (and I speak as a 67 year old with a UA-cam channel devoted to Classic TV and Movies) is that we start to sound like a bunch of old farts lamenting the demise of "the good old days"
There is absolutely no doubt that the current series of Doctor Who has not only failed to capture the public's imagination it has actively alienated existing fans by pursuing an agenda and openly attempted to groom children into acceptance of its doctrine. More than that it has completely abandoned everything that made it unique in favour of style over substance. I use the word style loosely. The Disney budget has enabled opportunities to enhance the show that have totally been pissed away with CGI Dinosaurs and Snot Monsters. Not to mention talking babies, farting spaceships and a CGI dog in the finale. To quote Victor Meldrew " I don't believe it" DAMN! I AM an Old Fart lamenting the good old days.
Or as my younger friends love to say "BOOMER"
Yes a fun informed panel - the audience of Dr Who - all unhappy. RTD has just completely steered dr who on the wrong direction
Well said Doug! 👍
Cheers Michael 🙏
Great show. Many thanks, Brendan, Philip, Simon, Rachael and Mike.
I agree with Philip; in New Who the Doctor has become too much of a hero character, who knows that he's the moral crusader in his own adventures. But maybe that's a consequence of his lifestyle, of his having had so many adventures in which he taken a moral stance and fought against injustice. He's realised that that is what he does. And I appreciate Simon's viewpoint on the Timeless Children and how it meant to cast a fresh perspective on the character for a young audience.
Following on from both of these viewpoints, I think a solution would be to have the Doctor forget who he is, for him just to be a man travelling through time and space in a machine that he can't remember how to work properly, and whose moral stance is rebuilt by the new dilemmas he faces week after week. (I may have made a comment similar to this once before.)
He could keep hearing about this person called the Doctor, and he gets called the Doctor, being mistaken for him, and he could come to use the name as his alias, in lieu of his own name that he can no longer remember. And all the while, those watching would know who he really is.
Children who don't know him at all could become invested in him rediscovering himself, while parents would know, and nudge their children when this Doctor meets the Daleks for the first time. The audience would know that the Doctor was walking into danger before he did.
The new child audience would have an inkling of the past Doctors from what their parents have told them, and the family would watch to see how this new Doctor deals with things, and to see if he is still able extricate himself from the danger. The Doctor could be duped into believing that the Daleks are good and help them, picking the wrong side, setting up future problems, and a realisation of the consequences of his mistakes in the season finale.
There are ways to give a fresh slant on the central concept of the man travelling through time and space in a box. Nothing about the character's past needs to be undermined or changed. It needs to be looked at in new ways that make both the concept and the character interesting again. Have him making mistakes, less assured as the hero, but working out as he goes what is right and wrong, helping where he can, a hero of sorts, but fallible and unpredictable. And then the show can return to being the broad appeal success that it ought to be.
But, yes, first it does need to take a rest, for a few years at least, for the memory of recent series to fade from the public consciousness.
I loved our return to the big Sunday live debate and what a great contribution Philip was. I was honoured that he came on and he gave his moneysworth. Passion and conviction and wise words!
@TheSenseSphere With Philip's insight, not only could old episodes be saved, but also the future of the show itself.
@crimpleendoubloonhe was fab
Further to Philip's comment that the BBC now owns the copyright to the Daleks...
That will have been a lot of money spent in expectation of a return on their investment.
Bearing that in mind, is Season Three more likely, even without Disney's involvement?
Or, if production does cease, doesn't it make a resumption of production after a break of some years even more likely?
Otherwise, that'd be a lot of money flushed down the toilet.
they willl get all the money on merch though, i dont think the show is that important when it comes to the expense of buying the rights to the most iconic dr who villain
While I appreciate emotive online argument I don't think it's fair to say that anyone involved in making Dr Who has ever hated it, whether in its classic, relaunch or latest form. I think it is fair to say that the ways they're going about managing the show nowadays are very regrettable. I'd go further and say, as someone who can claim the stripes since I can dimly remember the final gasps of Troughton, grew up with Pertwee and Baker while experiencing the earlier stuff through Target books and retained a deep fondness for the show thereafter, that it's always been interesting but never really all that important. I'd go yet further - just because something has become an institution doesn't mean it must continue, nor do I need to care what people do with it after my time.
I don't have oddly glued and badly painted Spitfires hanging from my ceiling anymore and my parents didn't have sticks and hoops fondly displayed on their shelves...
Hate is a short verb to suit the space of a thumbnail and I know you all appreciate I usually allow full debate within a theme. This time was slightly different as I was pushing a case a bit more. Hate helps get the point across at pace but I agree it cannot be proven somewhat though the collective treatment of classic who in interviews, plot, dialogue and editing does tend to show a disrespect for classic who
Do others notice that RTD is increasingly resembling the Abzorbaloff from Love and Monsters? Certainly, is his appearance. All those faces attached to his body remind me of all those he has destroyed with his personal agenda of driven egotistical need to feed. In this case RTD seems to like nothing more than attacking and devouring anyone who does not share his most extreme thoughts of utter lunacy.
Davros named the Doctor the Destroyer of Worlds. I think that rather tame upon reflection. Surely RTD has done a better job and doing primarily through his non-acceptance of diverse opinion, his disregard for science and his constant need to have his ego fed. His and Colinson's frequent statements beginning with 'In My eyes I would like to belief...' to then proceed with whatever tosh is infuriating. Tosh that rewrites key and important platforms of the show’s premise with throw away lines a 5-year-old might come up with. However childish their pompous and disrespectful diatribe is to others it remains a very effective and divisive way to upset and offend those they choose deserving of ridicule. It is their superiority complex that has done more harm to DW than anything Michael Grade or Mary Whitehouse ever did.
I Davros name RTD and Colinson the Destroyers of DW, with some assistance from Mr. Tennant himself.
Interesting analogy to abzorbaloff
Far worse than confining themselves to simply hating classic Doctor Who, I think that Davies and his associates pity it. I think that they genuinely believe that the classic format, one which has unequivocally proven itself to be that most robust of templates, is inadequate, needing to be rebuked by repeated comparisons with the current white male-hating, LGBTQ-promoting pastiche of itself.
The fact that the show has been all-too-readily handed to someone who can treat it so is proof enough of how imperilled is its current televised version, and the increasingly forlorn hope that Davies will either see reason himself, or be convinced by his peers, has never had any basis other than in wishful thinking.
Those glory days when impressive ratings and AIs provided an exclusive metric by which a showrunner/production team were judged and retained are gone, to be replaced by an era where virtue signalling and promotion of minority ideologies is deemed to be of far greater societal worth.
Such an ethos in no way lends itself to Davies being ousted. He will stop when he has either 'spread the word' to his satisfaction, or when, in keeping with the spoiled, petulant creature he has become, tires of not being listened to and demands the keys to another toy room.
Many thanks, Brendan, Philip, Simon, and Rachael, for taking the time to objectively assess not only the woeful current situation, but also some meaningful solutions. All the best for now.
Paul
Well said Paul! 👍
@@michaelwebster8666 Thank you, Michael, and I hope you're well.
Wonderful video. I'll say rest it for a while. We all like to point fingers at the production team for the problems with Dr. Who but BBC are complicit in spreading the current political message as well. So, nothing will change until they stop pushing their agender. But get rid of RTD and crew. Get a new team of science fiction writers, not fans, that understand the concept of the show. Yeah, and have a Dr. Who bible, so to speak for them to follow.
The bbc are certainly complicit and never seem to have known what to do with Dr Who. They seem to love getting it off their hands and looking the other way
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
Exactly