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@@personzorz I remember when Simon thanked Danny for editing on Brain Blaze once and Sam was super offended all episode. Like: "Sam, add the canned laugh." and the text on the screen said: Ask DANNY to do it.
I just saw Hong Kong in the thumbnail and immediately thought "that's surely written by George, gonna be a good one". Seriously George, you're on another level with your research.
George is absolutely amazing in his scripts; the research that he does, the level that he goes to - from talking to the police and as closely to people who were there as possible, to diving deeply into newspapers and other media in the native language(s), that's pretty awesome, and very much appreciated by we the audience. Thank you so much for your time and dedication to your script to Casual Criminalist, George . And thank you, Factboi Simon, for providing us with this intriguing channel for all this year. Thank you Jen, for all of your editing magic (and all of the hilarity you manage to sneak in at clever moments!) Thanks you all for making 2022 better. Here's to a good 2023!
george is accessing more primary sources than the average journalist does, for say an equivalent crime story. im really impressed with his dilligence, and the detail he gets into.i imagine an immaculate, tidy, extremely organised person.for example i saw first hand that a typical news story to be printed the next day and appear online, could get away with one primary source and 2-3 secondary sources. I struggled as a junior reporter intern to access primary sources, i felt i didn't have the authority, since i didn't have the press accreditation. so George;s ability to get them to 1( give him their time 2) grant him alot of sensitive information is a testament to his charisma/rapport huilding and negotiating skills. george speaks mandarin and cantonese if i'm not mistaken. that could be a big part of it. because i've seen how chinese people are REALLY surprised, really impressed when a white Westerner speaks either of these even to an upper intermediate or higher level. i have russian as a second language which i learnt over ten years. which is the worst second language to possess now, as i hate it for obvious reasons.
True, although I must add that I find it rather disturbing that he trusts the murder rates as reported by the Chinese government for Hong Kong... I wouldn't trust anything that government says about such matters...
I like the new practice of putting non-english names and places up on the screen so we can see what the original words were if Simon mangles the pronounciation. It makes looking up these names and places easier if you want additional context. Please keep doing this!
Reading something out loud consistently for long stretches of time is a skill. You need to be reading about 5-15 words ahead to even have a clue how the sentence is structured and be this good with a cold read. Simon is keeping the words in temporary memory (aka work memory) before saying them aloud. You are not processing the information at all the sentences contain, so, forgetting what was read is expected.
If I were a triad, being a taxi driver is an excellent choice of cover career: you have excuse to be out and about; you can easily have alone time for criminal things; you can explain a cash income; you can more easily explain having many people in your vehicle; and (of course) having a mobile office which is hard to stake out or surveill. Makes perfect sense. *Another excellent script from George! I still suggest the topic of the Geylang Bahru children (buckle up)
Not to mention survey/scout, interview & learning other culture from ranges of people (mainlander, chinese tourist, foreigner & rich) And extortion if done properly
@@somechinesedude5466 not just extortion but kidnapping as well. You get in a cab then realize too late that the child locks are set for the back doors or the inner handles have been removed. It happens, a lot actually.
Simon being a taxi driver means that you can go almost anywhere carrying anything and anyone without drowning any attention By the way taxi drivers are often also police informants
Everyone seemed to miss the detail of the missing finger on said taxi driver. This is something important, as cutting your own finger off and presenting it to your boss is the very way to get out of the Triad gang. Small but important detail.
I know this won't be seen, but I just wanted to say I greatly appreciate George emphasizing the victims and their names as often as he could while only refering to the killers by name when he absolutely had to
if you want to emphasize the victims then do so. Talk about them, have the discussion, mention them... what you're doing is called virtue signalling. Nothing more than "thoughts and prayers.' Mentioning how mentioning how the victims makes your d#ck hard just creates the financial incentive for youtubers to go on and on about victims which cheapens it. It's done for profit now instead of actually coming from the heart. so congratulations.
You had me curious as to how much central park is worth, so I looked it up. It says at $1,000/sq ft and with it being 848 acres, it's worth over 39 trillion dollars. That's absolutely insane
True in bare facts, but the more u build, the more devalued the buildings would be, as a lot of the pricing in that area comes from access to or view of the park. So less park, lower price. Still an astronomical amount.
George. What a wordsmith you are! Also Legend status for attention to the victims rather than the scrapings off shoes. I hugely respect your "thanks to..." section, so although we know you did the research and pestering, those who answered and helped are acknowledged too. You're obviously a gentleman and I tip my hat to you
I was impressed by the rhyming in this detective quote. 28:10 "There was a partial fingerprint in blood and mud with a hair (that was) all dark in the same mark, and it was very difficult (for us) to examine it without damaging it "
As a long-time viewer of The Casual Criminalist, this is my first time commenting. But George's script for this episode was so brilliant, I felt compelled to write. All of the writers are amazing, but George went above and beyond with this one, imho. Not only do I appreciate the depth, clarity, and breadth of the storytelling here, I especially appreciate the sensitivity with which he writes about the victims. And Simon's delivery on this one set the perfect tone, as well. Kudos to everyone who worked on this episode. This was one of the best, yet!
And I believe they were also used as couriers back then in Hong Kong, and it’s a great cover when transporting drugs & other illegal items…. “I didn’t know what was in the box/package, I’m just a taxi driver!”
@@LakinMae5Triads have used it for wrongdoing, too. There was a news story, and accompanying video, of a man cutting his finger off to settle a debt with his Triad boss a few years ago. It probably happens more often, they just don’t film and release it, because that’s dumb.
When you say "Forest of swords" after mentioning Prison Showers that conjures up a VERY different mental image from the threat of intergang killings. LMAO
George, I appreciate you taking the time to letting us get to know the victims. THEY should be the ones immortalized, not their killers. And yet, nobody can name but MAYBE one or two of the victims of infamous serial killers. Thank you for taking the time to introduce them to us. They seemed like such lovely people.
Reasons this is the best true crime show: respect to the victims, no unnecessary gorey details, incredible writing, and Simon's comments and asides. It almost feels like a conversation with a friend.
Thank you Simon and team! I’ve switched to usually enjoying the Podcast, but I’m going to take in the UA-cam today. I’m so grateful for your content, and especially your tangents, Simon. My flight was canceled this Christmas (terrible weather in US) and I’ve spent the whole holiday alone. I’ve relistened to a lot of older Podcasts during this time, and it’s nice to have a familiar voice around.
Sorry about the flight, but beats the alternative of a plane crash. 🙊 Try to enjoy the solitude best that you can and know an internet stranger has you in their thoughts. (Not a threat or admission of future ill intentions) fellow OGBB
@@daftirishmarej1827 I would have actually flown back home today, after a week long stay. Ironically, their software continued to notify until it took off.
@@andiward7068 thank you and I was completely fine with canceling considering the conditions. I’m extremely grateful that airplane staff have been empowered to make decisions instead of feeling forced to take off and putting people in danger.
I believe terrace houses in the US are called "row houses." And they're more common on the East Coast (probably owing to colonial British city planning and architecture). On the West Coast, there is the similar "townhouse" design. But condominiums and apartment buildings are more common due to the ease of planning in wide-open areas in the western US.
Simon, someone did own central park (obviously after colonialism over Native Americans) ... Free Blacks and immigrants owned part of what would be Central Park and it needs its own video. "Seneca Village existed until 1857, when, through eminent domain, the villagers and other settlers in the area were forced to leave and their houses were torn down for the construction of Central Park. The entirety of the village was dispersed."
Is there more to the story for the video to cover or just because people were forced to leave? Because if it's the second one sadly it's something that happened and still happens to this day all over the world. Every hydroelectric dam built in my country during the communist era drowned sometimes dozens of villages, you can still see a few roofs, usually of the local church or town hall, coming up from the water during very hot summers when the water is at its lowest. All of these places carry their own dramatic stories with them, in many cases of people given less than a day's notice that they would be moved out, made to pick out whatever belongings they could, shoved on a bus and evacuated from the area. Sadly it still happens today as well. There was a pretty big scandal last year when they wanted to make a highway extension around the capital but no expropriation settlements had been reached so hundreds of families in the area woke up to bulldozers and police at their doors dead set to evacuate them by force and tear their houses down. The whole thing only stoped when media swarmed the place and people chained themselves to gates or home walls. The less lucky people had left home early for work and multiple homes were destroyed before the media showed up. Imminent domain is a plague on modern society and gets abused by all governments, be they openly totalitarian or democratic...
Two notes; Unfiltered/uncensored Simon = best Simon. A true crime show/podcast is for adults so Simon, cursing tangents and asides are the best. Two; Happy New Years to the whole team across all channels, thank for a banner year of content. Simon wins my "Best All Rounder Content Creator" and that has tons to do with the team of writers and editors, so again thanks for great year!
I worked for the HK tourist Association and I just love it. Well, this was before 1997. When I was there I was never lonely. It was busy but you could get away even though sometimes you had to queue for ages to a ferry. It sounds crazy but to me it felt like a big town but we had lot of things in common, socialising, wellbeing, art walking and eating. I felt I was surrounded by people like me. i even married a HK Chinese man I could have stayed, but I thought it was more sensible to live in the UK and just go there on holiday It is anot a great place if you dislike your neighbour and you will find it hard to avoid him lol There are wild monkeys in Hong Kong and 47 pink dolphins in the Harbour which are vary rare, people don't talk about wild life there. When I was there I tended to ignore the concrete, I am very much a water harbour person and I loved the views. I do miss it
Literally seconds after my last comment - a few years ago, a gang tried to steal some copper wire near my parent's house. Attached to an electrical sub-station. Result - one (extremely dead) crispy criminal, a severely burned mate of his, a three day power outage and several highly traumatised old people, including my parents (my dad, who was a bit befuzzelled, never quite worked out where the bright blue light came from. My mum did - and tried to render aid. "Not much you could do with THAT")
This must be a pretty common crime (and consequence) cos i've heard many versions of this happening over the years. i once read a comment from someone who said they left for a vacation and forgot to call the power company to cut their line. they came back and noticed their power wasnt on. they attributed this to the company cutting their line for non payment, but soon they heard from neighbors that while they were away, someone saw they were away, assumed the line wasnt live and proceeded to try and steal the copper. they got burnt to a crisp and died pretty much immediately.
Simon, you spoke about Central Park and how enormously expensive it would be if owned by someone. At one time, a portion of that area was home to the largest community of free African-American land owners called Seneca Village. It would make for an interesting video on one of your many channels
I went looking to see if someone had already said this. It's true and it's absolutely sad. I've heard it called 'Black Wall Street' before. Just goes to show how far racists will go to prevent black people from excelling.
Thank you Simon and your incredible team for handling cases like these so respectfully. I find it difficult to watch true crime cases involving sexual assault, and I'm sure I'm not the only woman the topic hits a little too close to home for. I won't even watch true crime content if the topic is centered around sexual assault or serial rapists. The fascination with gore, and the attention (and just straight up glorification) perpetrators receive just makes my skin crawl. These are the worst moments of a human beings life, and the victims deserve the utmost respect, even in death. I appreciate that you and your team make a point of acknowledging that, rather than just fetishizing murder and rape like way too many other channels do. You guys are awesome
George went above and beyond as per usual in this episode. Being able to read both Cantonese and Mandarin, carrying out his own research, not turning the episode into gore porn. Thank You. As for the investigation, I feel that it's a shame that the HKPF were able to pull out all the stocks, including getting the military to search for evidence on a hill, while murders committed in Mong Kok and Kowloon City got far, far less attention. When the territory was handed over to Mainland China, I was hoping that the ring leader would stupidly appeal his conviction and in return get a bullet to the brain. Authoritarianism does have it's few benefits.
I was happily suprised that the Chinese version of a DA reached out to the families before deciding what to do with the surviving murders. That was unexpectedly humane of him.
I am so consistently impressed and appreciative of the careful and through research done by the writers of these episodes. Absolutely one of the best true crime programs available.
Simon, the question about why drive a taxi and be in a gang could be several sensible things like having a "reason" money is coming into your account, to taxi's being a pretty inconspicuous place shady meetings and dealings could take place, to taxi drivers meeting tons of people giving them opportunity to make more connections, to possibly just loving the job, some people thrive on that sort of thing.
Lived there for 23 years and lived in Tin Hau a congested downtown and yet 20 mins of waking uphill , passing skyscrapers and 7/11s boom ….a hiking trail ! Brings tears watching the gorgeous skyline . Having said that I never heard of this case.
I 100% recommend Hong Kong to everyone who likes to travel. It's an amazing city. Make sure to hit up lan kwai fong and puke outside the 7/11 for me, just like old times. Hoping the Gecko Lounge is still around
I remember Lan Kwai Fong, though I assume many of the clubs have changed. And eating corned beef sandwiches at The Captain's Bar. And getting lost a shopping mall....
Hong Kong's a veritable wellspring of potential content for all of Simon's channels, and I really look forward to George's scripts, as he goes the extra mile to dig up the actual details. Bravo to all involved, and I await next year's content with aplomb. ^^
You should make a video on the Snow Town Murders aka the "bodies in barrels murders", its largely considered to be the worst serial killer case in Australian history. Police inquiries into Elizabeth Haydon's disappearance led to Snowtown , and on 20 May 1999, the remains of eight victims were found by the South Australian Police in six plastic barrels in a disused bank vault.
The original research, reading the source material and interviews with the people involved really set this show apart. Well done as always! Thank you for the extra insight in to the different responses - it’s important to tell that story
Part the reason for there often being much more information on the murderers than the victims is that, at least for cases usually covered by true crime shows, each murderer often has *multiple* victims. It's a lot easier to focus on one person than half a dozen. Another part is that the police, understandably, tend to take apart and research the murderer's life looking for the necessary evidence for a conviction. This information then ends up in relatively easy to find police reports for writers to sort through. The victims, on the other hand, are sometimes kept out of public awareness for the safety of their families.
Central Park is City land but a private charity called the Central Park Conservatory operates the park. The Central Park zoo is run by the Bronx Zoo. It is the 5th largest park not the biggest. It used to be the water reservoir for the City
They went to my school and her sister went on to be a teacher at my school. One of the vice principals said he couldn't believe the murderer he didn't look like one.
Simon, you have to have a job that's a cover & legitimate if you're a part of a gang like the triad or mafia, otherwise they'd be found out really quickly. Taxi driver is probably a great cover because you don't have to be in a set location so you can go wherever you've been ordered to without it looking suspicious, even in the middle of the night. You can meet with loads of people without it being suspicious & pass on information without anyone else knowing.
In 1998, victim's family wrote a mitigating letter to Chief executive of HK stating they have forgave the murderers, two of the juvenile offender were released at 2004 and 2009 respectively.
Personally, I'm here to learn. The "gore porn" thing is overdone..🙄 This sort of channel allows me to identify and gain insight to possible threats👍 Also, identify faults within myself in order to just be a better person, and help others to improve their lives😁🤗 The writers that put in so much work, and I couldn't be more grateful for their work, and dedication!!🤗🤗🤗Thank you guys!🤜🤛
Before Central Park was Central park it was Seneca Village. Two thirds of the inhabitants were African Americans and one third Irish Americans. A law was enacted that allowed the state to purchase the land (many say under value) and relocate the people. There was no "I don´t want to sell" possibility.
Having been an expat in Hong Kong from 1999 to 2005 I can attest to the fact that these brutal murders would have been a real shock to the community, both expat and locals at the time. Hong Kong is well known as a safe place. I never felt unsafe there as a female running alone in those very hills behind Braemar Hill. I lived in the building next to the building the teens Kenneth and Nicola lived in. You could probably count on one hand the amount of expats killed in Hong Kong in the past 100 years.
Superb!! This is like a movie for me. I check the time lapsed and the time remaining just like a movie to see if we have potential twists or turns still to come. The entire crew at all the Simon channels are just superb!!!
Couldn’t finish the episode yesterday. I don’t want to say it was great because obviously it’s about a double murder but you know what I mean. The fund in their memory is very nice, I imagine a lot of the donations come from the people it’s helped.
This episode is a perfect example of why Casual Criminalist is the only true crime I listen to, and why George is one of my favourite writers for the channel. He treats the victims with so much care and puts them front and centre.
About Expats. In three of the countries I have lived in, expats meant people who were temporarily living in a country other than their own for a limited amount of time. To compensate them for this inconvenience, they received an allowance for rent (in one country the rent was phenomenal but the expats paid only a minimal mount, the rest being paid for by the company), their children could go to private schools such as The International School or The European School or The British School or the French school system, as the fees were paid for by the company. So the difference between migrants or immigrants is basically financial and status. The expat situation in Hong Kong was no different from anywhere else as far as status and accommodation and wealth went. As far as police is concerned, perhaps expats would get special attention in other countries too, simply because of their limited time in the country? or because they would have the embassy/consulate demanding results whereas a person of the country would have nobody to pressure the police for them?
I have to say that I enjoy all of Fact Boys' channels, and it is interesting to note that here at least, there is a significant absence of negative comments, surely way below the otherwise abundance in your average video. This must be due to both the quality of the Whistlemans' format as well as the quality of the audience these channels attract. I suggest we are all in the presence of a somewhat rarefied corner o the internet.
A note on the copper wires...apparently it's a huge industry. I lived in rural France whilst there was a crime wave....of people stealing the wires out of the street lights 😂 Four different villages, and I don't think they were ever caught. Must be worth it!
Thank you for an other amazing story!!! I love the way the writers are portrain the stories and your comments are just .... perfect for this type of stories... We learn about the vics and how the criminals are being punished(the death penalty comment is my favourite by the way.... May I suggest the story of Heather Quan and Ryan Waller? Thank you anyway! Happy new years to all of you and well wishes!! :D
Hey Simon, quick note you may find interesting. Being a taxi driver is, allegedly, a great job if you are a drug dealer/runner as you have a cash business that has a very valid excuse to be driving to anyone's house at any time of day or night 👍
I'd love to hear any stories from Prague. I stayed there for a few weeks and never wanted to leave. I imagine Simon would have Xtra great comments knowing the area.
I'm someone who usually cannot stand the popularity of true crime shows. Especially because instead of spending time on the victims and honoring their memory, they usually spend more time all but glorifying the murderers. However, I've absolutely come to love this show. I watch every one of Simon's other channels and honestly never even gave this one a second thought because of my actual hatred of true crime, but I'm so glad I eventually relented to YT and finally gave one of the very many recommended videos a shot. Thank you Simon and all of you talented writers for doing such a bang up job making sure that only what is necessary for the story is told in terms of the actual crime details and that the memory and life of the victims is not only remembered, but celebrated.
I'm not sure that the entire discrepancy between the two cited cases can be lain at the feet of the "colonial attitude"". Some acknowledgment of the size of the surviving family member's bank accounts has to enter into the mix. It's almost 40 years since the featured crime was committed, and the grant funding does not seem to be shrinking at all. Like you said in the presentation, it's the money.
I’m half way through and you said something that spoke to me. I watch this podcast for the investigation, how the cops catch the criminals. I can do without the gory details.
You should do the disaperence of Shannon Matthews and the man who kidnapped her. It is a really odd case. I remember it on the TV in England when I grew up.
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Ha....my beards better than your beard,and i'v got a wie of hair left.HAHA
Hey Simon, did you give the writers in the basement extra porridge?
Please consider mentioning what sweeteners if any at all, including any "natural" ones, are in consumable sponsor products during their spots.
£97 for one month????!!!!!
Townhouse, in the US FactBoy. House’s in a row is called a Townhouse 🏠 in the US 💜Happy New Years
All the writers on this show, deserve several rounds of applause 👏 🙌 Callum, Angus, Kevin, George etc and of course the editor Jen 💯
The editor Danny
Absolutely!! Bravissimo!! Can't wait to see what creative genius they deliver in 2023! (P.S. - you forgot Matthew!)
@@personzorz I remember when Simon thanked Danny for editing on Brain Blaze once and Sam was super offended all episode. Like: "Sam, add the canned laugh." and the text on the screen said: Ask DANNY to do it.
Jens a slag I can’t lie
@@thepastmaster5643 it’s that humour I love when watching these.
I just saw Hong Kong in the thumbnail and immediately thought "that's surely written by George, gonna be a good one". Seriously George, you're on another level with your research.
George is absolutely amazing in his scripts; the research that he does, the level that he goes to - from talking to the police and as closely to people who were there as possible, to diving deeply into newspapers and other media in the native language(s), that's pretty awesome, and very much appreciated by we the audience.
Thank you so much for your time and dedication to your script to Casual Criminalist, George .
And thank you, Factboi Simon, for providing us with this intriguing channel for all this year. Thank you Jen, for all of your editing magic (and all of the hilarity you manage to sneak in at clever moments!)
Thanks you all for making 2022 better. Here's to a good 2023!
+1 …. Huge fan and super impressed.
George’s scripts are always top notch. Whenever I see something in Hong Kong, I get extra excited because you *know* it’s gonna be good!
I totally agree. George's scripts always are beautifully written and researched.
george is accessing more primary sources than the average journalist does, for say an equivalent crime story. im really impressed with his dilligence, and the detail he gets into.i imagine an immaculate, tidy, extremely organised person.for example i saw first hand that a typical news story to be printed the next day and appear online, could get away with one primary source and 2-3 secondary sources. I struggled as a junior reporter intern to access primary sources, i felt i didn't have the authority, since i didn't have the press accreditation. so George;s ability to get them to 1( give him their time 2) grant him alot of sensitive information is a testament to his charisma/rapport huilding and negotiating skills. george speaks mandarin and cantonese if i'm not mistaken. that could be a big part of it. because i've seen how chinese people are REALLY surprised, really impressed when a white Westerner speaks either of these even to an upper intermediate or higher level. i have russian as a second language which i learnt over ten years. which is the worst second language to possess now, as i hate it for obvious reasons.
True, although I must add that I find it rather disturbing that he trusts the murder rates as reported by the Chinese government for Hong Kong... I wouldn't trust anything that government says about such matters...
I like the new practice of putting non-english names and places up on the screen so we can see what the original words were if Simon mangles the pronounciation. It makes looking up these names and places easier if you want additional context. Please keep doing this!
You mean when Simon mangles the pronunciation
Simon's ability to read something and forget it completely two sentences later is impressive
My ability to hear it and forget it just as fast is just the same lol
Reading something out loud consistently for long stretches of time is a skill. You need to be reading about 5-15 words ahead to even have a clue how the sentence is structured and be this good with a cold read. Simon is keeping the words in temporary memory (aka work memory) before saying them aloud. You are not processing the information at all the sentences contain, so, forgetting what was read is expected.
If I were a triad, being a taxi driver is an excellent choice of cover career: you have excuse to be out and about; you can easily have alone time for criminal things; you can explain a cash income; you can more easily explain having many people in your vehicle; and (of course) having a mobile office which is hard to stake out or surveill. Makes perfect sense.
*Another excellent script from George! I still suggest the topic of the Geylang Bahru children (buckle up)
Not to mention survey/scout, interview & learning other culture from ranges of people (mainlander, chinese tourist, foreigner & rich)
And extortion if done properly
@@somechinesedude5466 not just extortion but kidnapping as well.
You get in a cab then realize too late that the child locks are set for the back doors or the inner handles have been removed. It happens, a lot actually.
You can also overhear some interesting conversations that could lead you to money!
It’s like you spoke from experience😅
Plus many taxis provide courier services, so loading suitcases and locked attaché cases into the boot (trunk) would draw no notice.
5:55 - Chapter 1 - The murders
9:45 - Chapter 2 - The discovery
15:00 - Mid roll ads
17:00 - Chapter 3 - Investigation
36:35 - Chapter 4 - The arrest & the confession
37:10 - 36 Triad oath's
51:50 - Chapter 5 - The murders
58:30 - Chapter 6 - Continued investigation
1:01:40 - Chapter 7 - The trial
1:10:55 - Chapter 8 - Public response
1:20:25 - Conclusion
1:22:20 - Dismembered appendices
Thank you 😵💫
It's ok no one cares
Thank you
38:02 Un bleeped F-Bomb
Simon being a taxi driver means that you can go almost anywhere carrying anything and anyone without drowning any attention
By the way taxi drivers are often also police informants
also cash business for the most part at least in the states so easier to turn your dirty money clean, to a degree at least.
Thats what I was thinking. Eyes & ears, routines.... Its a blender job that perfect, unfortunately 😮
I read this as “Simon being a taxi driver “ and I was appalled at having to listen to his tangents and taking twice as long to get anywhere.
Everyone seemed to miss the detail of the missing finger on said taxi driver. This is something important, as cutting your own finger off and presenting it to your boss is the very way to get out of the Triad gang. Small but important detail.
As someone who's family is from HK... being a taxi driver in HK used to be a super lucrative job due to how small the city is
I know this won't be seen, but I just wanted to say I greatly appreciate George emphasizing the victims and their names as often as he could while only refering to the killers by name when he absolutely had to
if you want to emphasize the victims then do so. Talk about them, have the discussion, mention them... what you're doing is called virtue signalling. Nothing more than "thoughts and prayers.' Mentioning how mentioning how the victims makes your d#ck hard just creates the financial incentive for youtubers to go on and on about victims which cheapens it. It's done for profit now instead of actually coming from the heart. so congratulations.
You had me curious as to how much central park is worth, so I looked it up. It says at $1,000/sq ft and with it being 848 acres, it's worth over 39 trillion dollars. That's absolutely insane
True in bare facts, but the more u build, the more devalued the buildings would be, as a lot of the pricing in that area comes from access to or view of the park. So less park, lower price. Still an astronomical amount.
don't forget air space. in NYC, buying air space is a thing
Sorry????
I genuinely love it when Jen misses censoring Simon's swearing. It makes it feel so much more real.
George. What a wordsmith you are! Also Legend status for attention to the victims rather than the scrapings off shoes.
I hugely respect your "thanks to..." section, so although we know you did the research and pestering, those who answered and helped are acknowledged too.
You're obviously a gentleman and I tip my hat to you
Really gotta appreciate the degree of research your authors put in to each script they write, impressive stuff
I was impressed by the rhyming in this detective quote.
28:10
"There was a partial fingerprint in blood and mud with a hair (that was) all dark in the same mark, and it was very difficult (for us) to examine it without damaging it "
Happy New Year to the Factiest of Factboys and your brilliant team of writers and editors! All the best to you all and your families!
I first read that as "the Fascist of Factboys". I need to get my eyes checked...
@@stephenbecker5936 same, my dyslexic brain was like “ah okay”, then my logical side was all “huh?”
@@stephenbecker5936 same 🤣
@@stephenbecker5936 same. Had to doubletake that. I’m glad it wasn’t what I thought it was.😊
I def read fascist
As a long-time viewer of The Casual Criminalist, this is my first time commenting. But George's script for this episode was so brilliant, I felt compelled to write. All of the writers are amazing, but George went above and beyond with this one, imho. Not only do I appreciate the depth, clarity, and breadth of the storytelling here, I especially appreciate the sensitivity with which he writes about the victims. And Simon's delivery on this one set the perfect tone, as well. Kudos to everyone who worked on this episode. This was one of the best, yet!
Simon, if your a gang member, and you have informants, driving them in a taxi is probably the best low key way to gather said info.
And I believe they were also used as couriers back then in Hong Kong, and it’s a great cover when transporting drugs & other illegal items…. “I didn’t know what was in the box/package, I’m just a taxi driver!”
also, wasn't a cut finger (maybe a pinky?) a sign of leaving the gang?
@@sailor664 no, in the Yukuza a finger is cut as a form of punishment.
@@LakinMae5Triads have used it for wrongdoing, too. There was a news story, and accompanying video, of a man cutting his finger off to settle a debt with his Triad boss a few years ago.
It probably happens more often, they just don’t film and release it, because that’s dumb.
Exactly. And taxis are good for ferrying cargo as they're somewhat inconspicuous, being as ubiquitous and common as they are.
When you say "Forest of swords" after mentioning Prison Showers that conjures up a VERY different mental image from the threat of intergang killings. LMAO
Attempt 6 of asking Simon for a lighthearted blundering criminals episode.
I second said request!
George, I appreciate you taking the time to letting us get to know the victims. THEY should be the ones immortalized, not their killers. And yet, nobody can name but MAYBE one or two of the victims of infamous serial killers. Thank you for taking the time to introduce them to us. They seemed like such lovely people.
I appreciate the way you focus on the mystery of the case rather than the gore. Thanks for sticking your guns! :)
Another thing to love about CC.
😂"I paid for these words, so let's use them!"
Reasons this is the best true crime show: respect to the victims, no unnecessary gorey details, incredible writing, and Simon's comments and asides. It almost feels like a conversation with a friend.
Thank you Simon and team! I’ve switched to usually enjoying the Podcast, but I’m going to take in the UA-cam today. I’m so grateful for your content, and especially your tangents, Simon. My flight was canceled this Christmas (terrible weather in US) and I’ve spent the whole holiday alone. I’ve relistened to a lot of older Podcasts during this time, and it’s nice to have a familiar voice around.
I hope you get to where you were going or they get to you soon. I feel your pain. Take care x
Sorry about the flight, but beats the alternative of a plane crash. 🙊 Try to enjoy the solitude best that you can and know an internet stranger has you in their thoughts. (Not a threat or admission of future ill intentions) fellow OGBB
@@daftirishmarej1827 I would have actually flown back home today, after a week long stay. Ironically, their software continued to notify until it took off.
@@andiward7068 thank you and I was completely fine with canceling considering the conditions. I’m extremely grateful that airplane staff have been empowered to make decisions instead of feeling forced to take off and putting people in danger.
Fantastic script, George! I always appreciate all of your hard work!
I believe terrace houses in the US are called "row houses." And they're more common on the East Coast (probably owing to colonial British city planning and architecture). On the West Coast, there is the similar "townhouse" design. But condominiums and apartment buildings are more common due to the ease of planning in wide-open areas in the western US.
Final CC of the year! Thank you so much for this Simon and George!
Simon, someone did own central park (obviously after colonialism over Native Americans) ... Free Blacks and immigrants owned part of what would be Central Park and it needs its own video. "Seneca Village existed until 1857, when, through eminent domain, the villagers and other settlers in the area were forced to leave and their houses were torn down for the construction of Central Park. The entirety of the village was dispersed."
So basically they tore down some tents and makeshift shacks that the local homeless had set up and claimed through "eminent domain"? Gotcha.
Is there more to the story for the video to cover or just because people were forced to leave? Because if it's the second one sadly it's something that happened and still happens to this day all over the world. Every hydroelectric dam built in my country during the communist era drowned sometimes dozens of villages, you can still see a few roofs, usually of the local church or town hall, coming up from the water during very hot summers when the water is at its lowest. All of these places carry their own dramatic stories with them, in many cases of people given less than a day's notice that they would be moved out, made to pick out whatever belongings they could, shoved on a bus and evacuated from the area.
Sadly it still happens today as well. There was a pretty big scandal last year when they wanted to make a highway extension around the capital but no expropriation settlements had been reached so hundreds of families in the area woke up to bulldozers and police at their doors dead set to evacuate them by force and tear their houses down. The whole thing only stoped when media swarmed the place and people chained themselves to gates or home walls. The less lucky people had left home early for work and multiple homes were destroyed before the media showed up.
Imminent domain is a plague on modern society and gets abused by all governments, be they openly totalitarian or democratic...
Two notes; Unfiltered/uncensored Simon = best Simon. A true crime show/podcast is for adults so Simon, cursing tangents and asides are the best.
Two; Happy New Years to the whole team across all channels, thank for a banner year of content. Simon wins my "Best All Rounder Content Creator" and that has tons to do with the team of writers and editors, so again thanks for great year!
Thank you George, love your content on CC.
May I wish everyone a ‘peaceful and less stressful 2023 on our planet 🌍
Hope everyone at The Casual Criminalist had a good holiday season 💕🎄
I worked for the HK tourist Association and I just love it. Well, this was before 1997. When I was there I was never lonely. It was busy but you could get away even though sometimes you had to queue for ages to a ferry. It sounds crazy but to me it felt like a big town but we had lot of things in common, socialising, wellbeing, art walking and eating. I felt I was surrounded by people like me. i even married a HK Chinese man I could have stayed, but I thought it was more sensible to live in the UK and just go there on holiday It is anot a great place if you dislike your neighbour and you will find it hard to avoid him lol There are wild monkeys in Hong Kong and 47 pink dolphins in the Harbour which are vary rare, people don't talk about wild life there. When I was there I tended to ignore the concrete, I am very much a water harbour person and I loved the views. I do miss it
George's episodes are always a treat. Give that man a raise!
Literally seconds after my last comment - a few years ago, a gang tried to steal some copper wire near my parent's house. Attached to an electrical sub-station.
Result - one (extremely dead) crispy criminal, a severely burned mate of his, a three day power outage and several highly traumatised old people, including my parents (my dad, who was a bit befuzzelled, never quite worked out where the bright blue light came from. My mum did - and tried to render aid. "Not much you could do with THAT")
This must be a pretty common crime (and consequence) cos i've heard many versions of this happening over the years. i once read a comment from someone who said they left for a vacation and forgot to call the power company to cut their line. they came back and noticed their power wasnt on. they attributed this to the company cutting their line for non payment, but soon they heard from neighbors that while they were away, someone saw they were away, assumed the line wasnt live and proceeded to try and steal the copper.
they got burnt to a crisp and died pretty much immediately.
People have been doing this around my city just this year!
George did an amazing job of being culturally respectful. Absolutely love the work here.
And Simon; you are an excellent presenter.
Simon, you spoke about Central Park and how enormously expensive it would be if owned by someone. At one time, a portion of that area was home to the largest community of free African-American land owners called Seneca Village. It would make for an interesting video on one of your many channels
I went looking to see if someone had already said this. It's true and it's absolutely sad. I've heard it called 'Black Wall Street' before. Just goes to show how far racists will go to prevent black people from excelling.
I was thinking the same thing when he mentioned Central Park! I'd also love to see an episode about it
all the writers are great but George is just on another level. Dude is seriously impressive
Thank you Simon and your incredible team for handling cases like these so respectfully.
I find it difficult to watch true crime cases involving sexual assault, and I'm sure I'm not the only woman the topic hits a little too close to home for. I won't even watch true crime content if the topic is centered around sexual assault or serial rapists. The fascination with gore, and the attention (and just straight up glorification) perpetrators receive just makes my skin crawl. These are the worst moments of a human beings life, and the victims deserve the utmost respect, even in death. I appreciate that you and your team make a point of acknowledging that, rather than just fetishizing murder and rape like way too many other channels do. You guys are awesome
Shout out to George. Your dedication to primary sources is impressive.
George went above and beyond as per usual in this episode. Being able to read both Cantonese and Mandarin, carrying out his own research, not turning the episode into gore porn. Thank You.
As for the investigation, I feel that it's a shame that the HKPF were able to pull out all the stocks, including getting the military to search for evidence on a hill, while murders committed in Mong Kok and Kowloon City got far, far less attention. When the territory was handed over to Mainland China, I was hoping that the ring leader would stupidly appeal his conviction and in return get a bullet to the brain. Authoritarianism does have it's few benefits.
I was happily suprised that the Chinese version of a DA reached out to the families before deciding what to do with the surviving murders. That was unexpectedly humane of him.
I am so consistently impressed and appreciative of the careful and through research done by the writers of these episodes. Absolutely one of the best true crime programs available.
Happy new year and thank you and your team for pumping out such amazing and consistent content!
Simon, the question about why drive a taxi and be in a gang could be several sensible things like having a "reason" money is coming into your account, to taxi's being a pretty inconspicuous place shady meetings and dealings could take place, to taxi drivers meeting tons of people giving them opportunity to make more connections, to possibly just loving the job, some people thrive on that sort of thing.
Merry Christmas to the Casual family. Much appreciated from 🇨🇦
Lived there for 23 years and lived in Tin Hau a congested downtown and yet 20 mins of waking uphill , passing skyscrapers and 7/11s boom ….a hiking trail ! Brings tears watching the gorgeous skyline . Having said that I never heard of this case.
I 100% recommend Hong Kong to everyone who likes to travel. It's an amazing city. Make sure to hit up lan kwai fong and puke outside the 7/11 for me, just like old times. Hoping the Gecko Lounge is still around
I remember Lan Kwai Fong, though I assume many of the clubs have changed. And eating corned beef sandwiches at The Captain's Bar. And getting lost a shopping mall....
Hong Kong's a veritable wellspring of potential content for all of Simon's channels, and I really look forward to George's scripts, as he goes the extra mile to dig up the actual details. Bravo to all involved, and I await next year's content with aplomb. ^^
I don't think "aplomb" means whatever you think it means.
I’ve got a little over an hour before my family comes for new years, im glad to have something to consume before the madness!
You should make a video on the Snow Town Murders aka the "bodies in barrels murders", its largely considered to be the worst serial killer case in Australian history. Police inquiries into Elizabeth Haydon's disappearance led to Snowtown , and on 20 May 1999, the remains of eight victims were found by the South Australian Police in six plastic barrels in a disused bank vault.
The original research, reading the source material and interviews with the people involved really set this show apart. Well done as always!
Thank you for the extra insight in to the different responses - it’s important to tell that story
Part the reason for there often being much more information on the murderers than the victims is that, at least for cases usually covered by true crime shows, each murderer often has *multiple* victims. It's a lot easier to focus on one person than half a dozen.
Another part is that the police, understandably, tend to take apart and research the murderer's life looking for the necessary evidence for a conviction. This information then ends up in relatively easy to find police reports for writers to sort through. The victims, on the other hand, are sometimes kept out of public awareness for the safety of their families.
Prison showers as a "forest of swords" dang Simon, that's hilarious af 🤣
Central Park is City land but a private charity called the Central Park Conservatory operates the park.
The Central Park zoo is run by the Bronx Zoo.
It is the 5th largest park not the biggest.
It used to be the water reservoir for the City
Happy New year to you and your writers and authors on your show, and their families too.
I wish you good fortune for you in 2023.
They went to my school and her sister went on to be a teacher at my school. One of the vice principals said he couldn't believe the murderer he didn't look like one.
40:32 my criminology professor would constantly say how the answer to everything is money and he isn’t wrong
Simon, you have to have a job that's a cover & legitimate if you're a part of a gang like the triad or mafia, otherwise they'd be found out really quickly. Taxi driver is probably a great cover because you don't have to be in a set location so you can go wherever you've been ordered to without it looking suspicious, even in the middle of the night. You can meet with loads of people without it being suspicious & pass on information without anyone else knowing.
Always learn so much about Hong Kong history from George's scripts. Thanks, George & Simon! Jen does an excellent job, as always.
Copper theft is a serious problem! Any abandoned house will have the wiring ripped out of it. Its a major issue in the US at least.
George is a holy shit legend. Another superb episode.
In 1998, victim's family wrote a mitigating letter to Chief executive of HK stating they have forgave the murderers, two of the juvenile offender were released at 2004 and 2009 respectively.
The cases where someone is murdered over a tiny sum of $ are exceptionally frustrating.
Personally, I'm here to learn. The "gore porn" thing is overdone..🙄 This sort of channel allows me to identify and gain insight to possible threats👍 Also, identify faults within myself in order to just be a better person, and help others to improve their lives😁🤗 The writers that put in so much work, and I couldn't be more grateful for their work, and dedication!!🤗🤗🤗Thank you guys!🤜🤛
Before Central Park was Central park it was Seneca Village. Two thirds of the inhabitants were African Americans and one third Irish Americans. A law was enacted that allowed the state to purchase the land (many say under value) and relocate the people. There was no "I don´t want to sell" possibility.
Thanks for this year also Simon & The Gang, never stop the amazing work you do for us!
Please do the Joann Matouk case, would love to hear your take on that story.
I can't with "forest of short swords." Lmao, Simon. Another excellent video, Casual Criminalist team. 👌
Simon: Showers mate, forest. of. swords.
Me: You do not want to know where my mind went with that Simon... :3
I don’t know why Simon was so skeptical of the Triad lieutenant’s story, it felt perfectly possible.
He was annoyingly snarky throughout the video (for me, anyway) Also, a tiny point, "oaths" does not need an apostrophe before the "s".
Having been an expat in Hong Kong from 1999 to 2005 I can attest to the fact that these brutal murders would have been a real shock to the community, both expat and locals at the time. Hong Kong is well known as a safe place. I never felt unsafe there as a female running alone in those very hills behind Braemar Hill. I lived in the building next to the building the teens Kenneth and Nicola lived in. You could probably count on one hand the amount of expats killed in Hong Kong in the past 100 years.
Another awesome episode from the CC team! In the US, terrace houses are called row homes. Since all the houses are lined up in a row.
2:12 OH "Terraced" houses! I could have sworn Simon said "Terrorist houses" like hold on a sec.... did he just say?
Those are the ones in East London.
"...and not because for those 45 minutes I didn't have to study."
Me while I was writing my thesis ⤴️
“We’re not here for sleeping in people’s bodies” was the funniest thing I’ve heard all day.
Superb!! This is like a movie for me. I check the time lapsed and the time remaining just like a movie to see if we have potential twists or turns still to come. The entire crew at all the Simon channels are just superb!!!
Happy new year simon and co.
not to be annoying but when is the BB video on the worst business decisions of the year dropping?
Driving a taxi could be a cover for him driving around and dealing drugs or collecting debts, etc....
At 53 I feel more childish than I ever did as a child.
Simon: Pay off your American mortgage with $50k
Me: -dies on the floor laughing hysterically-
All of your writers are fantastic but my personal favourite is George. :)
Couldn’t finish the episode yesterday. I don’t want to say it was great because obviously it’s about a double murder but you know what I mean. The fund in their memory is very nice, I imagine a lot of the donations come from the people it’s helped.
This episode is a perfect example of why Casual Criminalist is the only true crime I listen to, and why George is one of my favourite writers for the channel. He treats the victims with so much care and puts them front and centre.
Lmfao Simon coming up with the whole plot device of the show “Psych” as a brief side tangent
About Expats. In three of the countries I have lived in, expats meant people who were temporarily living in a country other than their own for a limited amount of time. To compensate them for this inconvenience, they received an allowance for rent (in one country the rent was phenomenal but the expats paid only a minimal mount, the rest being paid for by the company), their children could go to private schools such as The International School or The European School or The British School or the French school system, as the fees were paid for by the company. So the difference between migrants or immigrants is basically financial and status. The expat situation in Hong Kong was no different from anywhere else as far as status and accommodation and wealth went. As far as police is concerned, perhaps expats would get special attention in other countries too, simply because of their limited time in the country? or because they would have the embassy/consulate demanding results whereas a person of the country would have nobody to pressure the police for them?
Happy New Year Simon and crew 🎉🎊❤️
I have to say that I enjoy all of Fact Boys' channels, and it is interesting to note that here at least, there is a significant absence of negative comments, surely way below the otherwise abundance in your average video. This must be due to both the quality of the Whistlemans' format as well as the quality of the audience these channels attract. I suggest we are all in the presence of a somewhat rarefied corner o the internet.
A note on the copper wires...apparently it's a huge industry. I lived in rural France whilst there was a crime wave....of people stealing the wires out of the street lights 😂 Four different villages, and I don't think they were ever caught. Must be worth it!
its a high risk, high reward crime. ive heard many stories of people getting burnt to death while trying to steal copper wires.
Yey! 🎉 a long episode!
Thank you for an other amazing story!!! I love the way the writers are portrain the stories and your comments are just .... perfect for this type of stories... We learn about the vics and how the criminals are being punished(the death penalty comment is my favourite by the way....
May I suggest the story of Heather Quan and Ryan Waller?
Thank you anyway!
Happy new years to all of you and well wishes!! :D
Hey Simon, quick note you may find interesting. Being a taxi driver is, allegedly, a great job if you are a drug dealer/runner as you have a cash business that has a very valid excuse to be driving to anyone's house at any time of day or night 👍
My night time listening sorted by Simon, again 😊
"I'm 12!" - Got me 🙈😂
I'd love to hear any stories from Prague. I stayed there for a few weeks and never wanted to leave.
I imagine Simon would have Xtra great comments knowing the area.
I'm someone who usually cannot stand the popularity of true crime shows. Especially because instead of spending time on the victims and honoring their memory, they usually spend more time all but glorifying the murderers. However, I've absolutely come to love this show. I watch every one of Simon's other channels and honestly never even gave this one a second thought because of my actual hatred of true crime, but I'm so glad I eventually relented to YT and finally gave one of the very many recommended videos a shot. Thank you Simon and all of you talented writers for doing such a bang up job making sure that only what is necessary for the story is told in terms of the actual crime details and that the memory and life of the victims is not only remembered, but celebrated.
George needs a raise
Love the content
I'm not sure that the entire discrepancy between the two cited cases can be lain at the feet of the "colonial attitude"". Some acknowledgment of the size of the surviving family member's bank accounts has to enter into the mix. It's almost 40 years since the featured crime was committed, and the grant funding does not seem to be shrinking at all. Like you said in the presentation, it's the money.
I’m half way through and you said something that spoke to me. I watch this podcast for the investigation, how the cops catch the criminals. I can do without the gory details.
May I suggest a video on Chapultepec Park in Mexico City, it's much bigger than Central Park and even has a castle, for another channel, obviously.
You should do the disaperence of Shannon Matthews and the man who kidnapped her. It is a really odd case. I remember it on the TV in England when I grew up.
Really good version of it available on demand on itv player it has actors in but a really good version of telling the story