Bill Hwang arrested on fraud charges!

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  • Опубліковано 16 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 883

  • @PBoyle
    @PBoyle  2 роки тому +51

    Sign up to The Daily Upside using this link: bit.ly/3krIX9E

    • @FistOFrost
      @FistOFrost 2 роки тому +2

      Did that about a month ago and I really love my daily upside emails.

    • @jagzilla1398
      @jagzilla1398 2 роки тому

      No one seem to pronounce it correctly..Let's break it down..Arch Egos..

    • @IceQueenaliasIQ
      @IceQueenaliasIQ 2 роки тому

      Bill Hwang's actions might make sense if we assume that he had collaborators. If he was part of a group of people who all traded stocks of the same companies, he might have "sacrificed" himself for the other group members by funnelling money from the banks he took loand from into their pockets, before the inevitable implosion of his scheme.
      I have no indication that this might actually be the case - it was just a thought I had.

    • @Foolish188
      @Foolish188 2 роки тому

      Been reading The Daily Upside for months, highly recommended.

    • @hypothalapotamus5293
      @hypothalapotamus5293 2 роки тому +1

      So, what are the pros and cons of getting a $20 pasta machine vs a $70 pasta machine?

  • @benjjjaamiinn
    @benjjjaamiinn 2 роки тому +1185

    Deceiving counterparties to get even more leverage? Classic Bill.

    • @normann8179
      @normann8179 2 роки тому +130

      I immediately thought of you when I saw the title. GUH

    • @yourdadisbad1679
      @yourdadisbad1679 2 роки тому +111

      The holy spirit told him it was ok

    • @winstonchurchill197
      @winstonchurchill197 2 роки тому +23

      @@normann8179 same!!!!
      Losing professionally as always

    • @DataLog
      @DataLog 2 роки тому +46

      Ballin' like Bill

    • @gigitrix
      @gigitrix 2 роки тому +5

      @@DataLog we'll see if he's Bailin' now

  • @arafat464
    @arafat464 2 роки тому +281

    I used to work in PB at Credit Suisse. It is not surprising how incompetent the desk and risk management was in this case. The entire business was run off of a single Microsoft Access file on a shared drive and xl macros that failed half the time. Asset prices from the internal system were often wrong and so we always had to doubt them. Management was unwilling to invest money to improve the technology. It was a poorly run business.

    • @jayali8392
      @jayali8392 2 роки тому +71

      The more experience I get, the more demystified these giant corporations seem to become. They eventually prove themselves to be benefactors of connections and exceedingly large amounts of capital than operational efficiency.

    • @CJ_102
      @CJ_102 2 роки тому +18

      Likely an extremely widespread phenomena. Firms like this have been ripping as much cash out as possible for decades. All the cash goes out to execs who walk once the tide turns.

    • @fourthwall2533
      @fourthwall2533 2 роки тому +9

      Wow that’s almost unbelievable. I’m an information management student and data integrity and security is constantly drilled into us. The firms I’ve interacted usually use SAP enterprise software.

    • @theIdlecrane
      @theIdlecrane 2 роки тому

      Wow

    • @johnc2438
      @johnc2438 2 роки тому +49

      I know where you are coming from. Stupidly, I actually went and got "specialist"-level certifications using Microsoft applications before going to work for a monster international banking house. I wanted to be able set up templates, write macros, use VBA and really "add value" in my new job. I discovered -- and had to repeatedly learn -- that co-workers and management had no desire to learn how to use MS Office and Access (and other database applications they had available) correctly. They could use about five percent of their apps and thought themselves experts. Since I was merely an employee (not a highly paid consultant), they cared not to listen and just continued stumbling through their work, whether using a worksheet, preparing a presentation, or writing something in Word. Macros? Templates? VBA? Why bother with those? They decided that Microsoft didn't know what it was doing when they got stuck or that some things were better done by hand (over and over and over again). Discovered that this is a universal truth in my earlier military work overseas. For example, I was assured, one time, that the Italians were compiling data using Excel worksheets. One afternoon, I wandered over to the Italian building and saw bottles of White Out being used to correct and retype into worksheet "cells" sums that were done on hand-held calculators (errors originally being made by the French); only then, would copies be distributed to the Germans, Dutch, and everyone else. They did look like computer-printed worksheets. I tried to explain to the U.S. side what was being done. "Shhhh... we don't want to offend anyone." Sighhh.... Also discovered much the same thing while working for two very large, very well-known Japanese companies, too. Kaizen? Really? The world is mired in mediocrity and poor management.

  • @spurgendahl
    @spurgendahl 2 роки тому +112

    Referring to a certain Swiss bank as "Debit Suisse" - that's wonderful!

    • @davidjma7226
      @davidjma7226 2 роки тому +14

      It wouldn't be a scandal without Debit Suisse!

    • @alexkaplan6581
      @alexkaplan6581 2 роки тому +1

      IDK, USOI has been great for me.

  • @unknown-user
    @unknown-user 2 роки тому +345

    I think he just wanted to buy low, manipulate, sell and get out. The problem is that he got stuck in the buy and manipulate phase. He forgot the sell part.

    • @dilligafwoftam985
      @dilligafwoftam985 2 роки тому +38

      He should have listened to our mate, Elon.😂

    • @friednoodlee6599
      @friednoodlee6599 2 роки тому +28

      Welpp, classic degenerate lol

    • @sandro3211
      @sandro3211 2 роки тому +29

      Yeah but how to sell such a gigantic position without losing the manipulated price and therefore the profits?😂

    • @unknown-user
      @unknown-user 2 роки тому +17

      @@sandro3211 Small blocks extended over a long period of time, and as long as market has strength he can actually get away with it and exit his position unscathed. Problem is that the offering sell pressure pooped on his party. This guy was greedy, he wanted the price to keep going even higher than $100 a share. He didn’t manage his risk appropriately.

    • @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki
      @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki 2 роки тому +9

      He had had a good enough track record to get into the big banks big money. He wasn't a snot nosed graduate of Yale who thought his genius needed affirmation. He was more near usual retirement and had decades of experience. What went sideways?? His brain?

  • @scottgronowicz8852
    @scottgronowicz8852 2 роки тому +38

    “They ran out of pasta machines… so huge losses it was.” Such high quality delivery

  • @hugokatz
    @hugokatz 2 роки тому +35

    My lockdown hobby got me in trouble too. I thought, what a great time to install a skylight. The upstairs neighbors were furious.

  • @daking32321
    @daking32321 2 роки тому +166

    I love the humour in your videos, it makes finance much more interesting!

    • @johnl.7754
      @johnl.7754 2 роки тому +3

      Then he should make video on todays market :-)

  • @BillyLapTop
    @BillyLapTop 2 роки тому +153

    Good luck in finding a jury that will be literate enough to comprehend all the issues from both the prosecution and defense side.

    • @lombardo141
      @lombardo141 2 роки тому +17

      Thats the point. You hope they don't understand so its a toss up they make a decision that goes your way.

    • @BillyLapTop
      @BillyLapTop 2 роки тому +14

      @@lombardo141 Yes. The more complexity confounds the thinking process, the more the seeds of reasonable doubt are sown.

    • @markusgorelli5278
      @markusgorelli5278 2 роки тому +8

      When it is said "a jury of your peers" shouldn't it mean exactly that? In this instance - financial people.

    • @BillyLapTop
      @BillyLapTop 2 роки тому +2

      @@markusgorelli5278 That is a great statement about a jury consisting of peers.
      I'm not aware of any defining judicial decisions at the state or Supreme Court level that has defined peers for the sake of selecting juries. Probably because plaintiffs and defendant's attorneys want to have the flexibility to cull the jury pools, like predators do for weak prey, looking for jurors that they feel they can bamboozle and confuse and lead to their desired ends and not select equals or peers to the station of the defendant, that may actually be intelligent, especially in this case.
      I suppose selection is a matter of the system maintaining a two way street when it comes to manipulation of juries by either opposing legal parties, especially when the evidence may require a jury of Nobel Prize winners and it is really hard to prove anything to those kinds of people.

    • @hewhohasnoidentity4377
      @hewhohasnoidentity4377 2 роки тому +14

      A complicated issue makes the jury role less important and the role of the attorneys on both sides more important. Expert witnesses are found, qualified by the court and allowed to testify and then be cross examined. Then the other side brings in an expert witness that comes to an opposite conclusion based on the same facts and the process repeats. The result is that everyone involved is not sure about anything they used to know about life and lengthy appeals are guaranteed. Finally ending the case with the two sides settling out of court to end the madness.
      The courts are useless in these cases. They just keep the peace until both sides are ready to settle.

  • @FistOFrost
    @FistOFrost 2 роки тому +192

    I love this channel. Patrick just seems like a really good guy. I could listen to him explain finance news for hours lol.

    • @jamesgrover2005
      @jamesgrover2005 2 роки тому +7

      I'm pretty sure "it's just business" has to do a lot of lifting in the running of hedge funds.

    • @mrsmucha
      @mrsmucha 2 роки тому +3

      Me too.

    • @88denden
      @88denden 2 роки тому +4

      Unfortunate ordeal with that pasta loss.

    • @effctoocool9763
      @effctoocool9763 2 роки тому

      420 hours a day, 69 days a week!

    • @Christian-uc2qi
      @Christian-uc2qi 2 роки тому

      Really good? He hangs with Soros and Annie Duke. He is a smart capitalist.

  • @ChengTeoh
    @ChengTeoh 2 роки тому +160

    Soon enough we'll get the headline "SEC arrests NFT Emoji for fraud." 😔

    • @drunkdriver
      @drunkdriver 2 роки тому +10

      Careful with that sadface emoji, you could be violating some federal law

    • @carlos_cub
      @carlos_cub 2 роки тому +2

      @@drunkdriver use the boomer defense lol

    • @sts3884
      @sts3884 2 роки тому +1

      😂😂😂😂😂😂👌

  • @justsayinit6789
    @justsayinit6789 2 роки тому +3

    Patrick, when are you going to grab the mic and hit the stage? Your comedic prowess is undeniable!

  • @racketti
    @racketti 2 роки тому +44

    18 minutes of gold, great stuff Mr. Boyle.

    • @carlos_cub
      @carlos_cub 2 роки тому

      Pure 24 karat!! favorite part is Credit Suisse couldn't find a pasta maker during the pandemic so huge losses it was. The guy should do stand up.

  • @harryhoudini3537
    @harryhoudini3537 2 роки тому +31

    Pat, your deadpan humor goes so well with financial seriousness! P.S. the pocket square was truly classy.

    • @AleksPTA
      @AleksPTA 2 роки тому

      I love the pocket square as well
      Would love to see his folding technique :-)

    • @sinisa5567
      @sinisa5567 2 роки тому

      Me and P are going way back

  • @udp1073
    @udp1073 2 роки тому +24

    Sir, besides the incredible wealth of info in your video, the straight, professional face you keep when you let out jokes is worth an Oscar. Kudos to you AND thanks for the amazing job

  • @willbarnstead3194
    @willbarnstead3194 2 роки тому +97

    I can’t believe the lack of due diligence for lending such large sums of money.

    • @larzkruber822
      @larzkruber822 2 роки тому +21

      Just the name was enough,
      Bill will make you billions.
      Trust me bro🤣

    • @JasonCloseOK
      @JasonCloseOK 2 роки тому +11

      Remember, the banks are getting a lot of money in fees. At just 1%, $1B in loans is $10M a year in interest.

    • @tervilsnaider3103
      @tervilsnaider3103 2 роки тому +8

      The sad part is i wouldn't even get approved for a loan yet this man can get so much shit from the bank

    • @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki
      @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki 2 роки тому

      @@tervilsnaider3103 He had a track record in the "correct" city, New York. Then blew it acting like he was a "Howe Street Whore" in Vancouver, BC or some Mexican stock exchange full of criminals and thug life. Was he ALWAYS one of those, just had the "correct" pathway. ??

    • @jmitterii2
      @jmitterii2 2 роки тому

      And how many more are doing similar stupidity?
      I mean even for us retail traders... lots of brokers like MooMoo or Webull or Robin Hood etc. are giving away free shares for joining and referring friends.
      Now... Moo Moo for instance owned by FUTU Inc. I signed up for the freebies and hello goodbye took my money and ran... they only have margin accounts.
      You cannot even request/demand a cash only account. They only have margin accounts available for sign up.
      Something I rather not have since you need $25K or higher in margin assets to pattern day trade. I like to be in and out whenever I want. And not worry that I only have 3 day trades in a rolling 5 business day period or I get in "trouble".
      And having a margin account for lots of these newbies is absurd.
      At least my buying power long was double my margin. So my wimpy $2K I stuck on there for some extra freebie bonus shares I could buy up to $4K in stocks. And they allowed shorting power of $3K with my $2K in cash margin.
      These banks and brokers have lost their freaking minds.
      Doesn't help that our Fed Reserve has too by enabling them essentially free money to lend out to anyone or thing.
      When the margin calls come... it's going to be fast and furious I think. Already looking like a topping pattern since September, and into this year the rallies have been completely bear market weak rallies. No capitulation really yet... but I think when it does happen... it's going to make the cliche of a blood bath seem quaint.

  • @gigitrix
    @gigitrix 2 роки тому +19

    I really hope this all comes down to emoji semantics, it would fit my "everything is just getting stupid" macrosociological model

  • @ayyaz2195
    @ayyaz2195 2 роки тому +17

    Been waiting for your take on the hwang arrest, and was not disappointed. Great work as always, Patrick!

  • @lunchNsinners
    @lunchNsinners 2 роки тому +21

    Patrick this is awesome content, im just your average 22 year old and I find this fascinating the way u present the info, keep it going !

  • @johnf4390
    @johnf4390 2 роки тому +67

    "Once again, I'm not sure that you have to show that you bought a stock based on good and thorough research"
    Phew, was getting a bit nervous there.

    • @carlos_cub
      @carlos_cub 2 роки тому +2

      Right!?

    • @brucetownsend691
      @brucetownsend691 Рік тому

      A little bit of criminal law basics: to establish a crime, the prosecution must prove both a guilty act and a guilty mind. It would be a defence to the manipulation charge to establish that the trading was based on a genuinely held view of the true value of the stock. Whether that view was based on good research or not is not critical - though a complete lack of research or plausible argument as to value would make proving an alternative explanation for the trade more difficult.
      The pleading that the trading was not based on a view as to the true value of the stock is the prosecution asserting a guilty mind - that driving up the price was the subjective purpose of the trade and not a mere byproduct - necessary to turn act the crime. It’s not an assertion that one has to have good research behind one’s view of the true value of a stock before trading it, just that in Hwang’s case a potential out, ie that he just liked the stock and wanted more of it, does not exist.

    • @rykehuss3435
      @rykehuss3435 9 місяців тому

      @@brucetownsend691 guilty mind is not needed. ignorance of the law is no excuse

    • @brucetownsend691
      @brucetownsend691 9 місяців тому

      @@rykehuss3435 You do not understand criminal law or the meaning of “ignorance of the law is no excuse.” The latter simply means that Hwang cannot plead that he did not know that stock manipulation was illegal.

    • @rykehuss3435
      @rykehuss3435 9 місяців тому

      @@brucetownsend691 I understand it, you clearly dont. "Stock manipulation was illegal", how about if he considered it stock manipulation to begin with?

  • @JohnSmith-ox3gy
    @JohnSmith-ox3gy 2 роки тому +7

    Poor Billy.
    He just couldn't keep doubling down forever.

  • @PBoyle
    @PBoyle  2 роки тому +14

    Thanks to our growing list of Patreon Sponsors and Channel Members for supporting the channel. www.patreon.com/PatrickBoyleOnFinance : Marc De Mesel, Annie Chen, Nate Stapleton,Timothy Baird, WIlam, Hernan Merino, Random Encounter, Nieuwsbrief Ikwil, Bee Positive Consulting, hyunjung Kim, John Cadena, Ian Tracey, Callum McLean, Oscar, Simon Pena, Ed, Pavle Obradovic, Erik Van Ekelenburg, David O'Connor, Pjotr Bekkering, Alex, Robert W Proudfoot, pooh shmoo, Robert Muller, Andre Michel, Ivan Iliev, Gopaljee Atulya, Milan Tomic, Mark Hooker, Artem Vasenin, P H, Sebastian, Michal Lacko, Peter Bočan, Michael Pierce, V Jordan, Gil, HalfwitHam, Mark Brophy, Patrick T, David Urdenata, Juan Valdez, Bruce Roberts, Chad Norman, Bruce Roberts, Shamikh Rana, Friday Guy, Marc De Mesel, Augusto Ramos, Soy Boomer Doomer, Bob Slartabartfast, Robert Feiler, Camil Dbouk, Erik Montesinos, Matthew Loos, Az Indragiri, Aman Bali, Lautaro Parada, Pratap, Deborah Joseph, Robin Sung, Kurt Johnston, Dominik Auerbach, Gurmeet Kaushal, John Hall, Dara Mo, Josef Goergen, Wilbert Cheng, Daniel Talero, Jaroslav Tupý, Trevor Lucey JB Weld, Alex, Sunny, Carlos Figuera, Peter Pomelov, Null065, Rick Thor, MeBerzerk, Henry Nguyen, Sola F, The Collier, Carlos Mejia, J Wadia, Bitcoin OG, easy boekhouding, Albert, Eugene Jung, Oisin Quinn, Daniel Cervini, Jonathon Yong, Iris Ji, Emil Nicolaie Perhinschi, Charles, Eli Auto, Excks, Michael Li, Par Hedman, Praveen Mishra, Gerard Scott, joel köykkä, Areeb Ahmed, David Wang, Yazan Qaraqish, Rodolfo Cornetti, Daniel Winroth, johnny, Nick Jerrat, Chris Houston, Alastair Currie, Robert Griffin, Andrei, zizi Golo, Fab Vida, Constantin Petrenco, pawel irisik, NotAScam, James Halliday, 22 Dust, Carsten Baukrowitz, Heinrich, Arron T, Ben Brown, Stephen Mortimer (to The Moon), Ryan B. Hicks, Liam, Logan Vrankovic, William Heaton, Paul McCourt, Daniel, Aaryan Koura, Steven, Christopher Boersma, Ulf Lundblad, Dorothy Watson, Greg Blake, Simon Bone, Livermores Quant, The Collier Report, Scott Gardner, The Man Koala, Brian McCullough, Daniel S. Smith, Finance Student, Milton Danielsson, Julie, Mohammad Rehman, James Wallace, Daniel Poellmann, Edosa Odigie, Dixon Yuen, Marek Novák, Stamatis Drepaniotis Michael Smith, Ahmed Hamadto, Chris Davey, Mike Farmwald, Michael A. Mayo, Lachezar Georgiev, Kamet Batra, Bradley Johnson, Sagar Gudi, Michael Chessar, Kate ATL, Tong Cheung, Lady Dje, James Barnes, Chris Hall, Kurt Johnston, ICBM Catcher Juan Valdes, KernelSC, Josh Garcia, Linn Engström, Veltsh, Konrad P-kala, Pastacat, Adam Vorting, Matthew McQuade, Christopher Lesner, freebird, Kenneth WedMore Lund, erfective, Jason Young, Jonathan Kopnick, Peter Hendrickson, steel, Bastien, Tom Willett, Chris Whitehead, Anil Jason, JOJO, AS7, Greg Thatcher, Ezekiel Templin, Robert M Daily, MrLuigi1138 Grecia Bate, Leszek Frankowski, Nam Nguyen, Goutham, Karim THIBAULT, C, David R. Ingemi, Robert Wave, Dmitri Alexeev, Aaron Rose, Ethan Hernandez, Brett Turley, Claude Chevroulet, Adrian, Stephan Marosvary, Yigit Yargili Louis Julien, Jan Lukas Kiermeyer, Gearoid O Connor, Fredrick Saupe, Subliminal Transformation, Jason Horton, Alex McMahon, Adi, Ben, Kurt Mueller, Joaquin Madruga, Janusz Wieczorek, Federico Viscomi, Corgi, Mahdi, Burgerinn, Quinn Cone, Sam Doyle, QiKaiQian, Stephen, Joshua Rosenthal, Timotej Zat’ko, Frank Yashar, Michael Smith, Emilian Marius Tudor, Julian Aßmann, Cormac, Max Kaye, Ian Shearer, Theodosius the Elder, Michael Kopřiva, Tinni, Goran Milivojevic, chris, Joe Del Vicario, Alexandre Mah, ultima9, Norman A. Letterman, maRiano polidoRi, Andrew Steinborn, Stephan Prinz, Gary Yrag, Mattia Midali, Matthew Berry, Ann Williams, Jay T, Gabor, Florian Haas, Shivendra Saklani, Zachary Tu, Jeffrey, Lane Alan Deyoe, Chett Flynn Jonathan Horn, Mo Herbert, Lane Andrews, Justin Thuet, Olaf Thiele, Ivan Ilaev, Todd Gross, Andrea Russo, Douglas Caldwell, Devere, Wade Hobbs, Volodymyr Palii, James Hoctor, Gavotti SGP, Ryne Davis, Jean-Philippe Lemoussu, Keanu Thierolf, Grizzly Grey Bear, Muhammad, Michael Chow, Stefan Alexander, James Blandford, Miroslav Ognyanov, Scott Guthery, Vanya Davidenko, Oswaldo Caraballo Fermin, Arto Karhu, James Bache, Jason Harner, Dale Patch, Stefan Penner, Mick Jasny, Robin Talbot, Mischa Trunz, Arvid, Andre, Eric, Jonathan Metter, Niandis, Junhong Low, John Way, Maria Baker, Luke Solomon, Sharath Vulupala, Keith Elkin, Chris Nicholls, Pavlos Skevofylax, Cory Weinreb, Luis Carmona, Vinci Chan, Olivier, Thomas Chan, Yasha, James Yoh, Eduardo Martinez, Christian, Adi Blue, W Fla, Swain Gant, georgejr, Stefan, hyeora and Yoshinao Kumagai

  • @mikestanmore2614
    @mikestanmore2614 2 роки тому +29

    Debit Suisse seems to have taken a fairly expensive advertising route. I know getting their name in headlines is great advertising, but perhaps it would have been cheaper to pay for the adverts and not squander billions to get the headlines.

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому +1

      Word is Debit Suisse potentially merging with another bank very soon!

  • @sts3884
    @sts3884 2 роки тому +3

    You crack me up with continual the Credit Suisse jokes. 😂😂😂😂

  • @olevam1
    @olevam1 2 роки тому +8

    That’s why I didn’t lose all my money in the pandemic! I learnt to make really good pasta! Glad you cleared that up Patrick

  • @coleb9410
    @coleb9410 2 роки тому +13

    "It's not about the money; it's about sending a (goofy text) message" - Bill Hwang

  • @chrisnln1619
    @chrisnln1619 2 роки тому +41

    "They were buying dogs that they could then clean up after." - Mate, you missed a massive opportunity to put Elon and a Dogecoin screengrab right there...

    • @Strawdozz
      @Strawdozz 2 роки тому +3

      Wrong because Elon did not have to clean up after dogecoin. Others did..

  • @medea27
    @medea27 2 роки тому +17

    I'm trying to picture the courtroom as the SEC & Hwang's legal teams debate the finer points of emotes... I'm guessing they'd need to call their teenage kids as expert witnesses. 'Emote precedent' indeed! 🤔🙃😈

  • @thomas316
    @thomas316 2 роки тому +48

    Credit Suisse might have cornered the market on losing money to markets but HSBC definitely own compliance losses.
    In Australasia it's usually WestPac.

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому +1

      Deutche Bank for FX currency manipulation as well as Bank of America’s Commodities rogue trades.
      Then there’s JPM and Barclays London Whale Trade scams.
      The Societe General and Lazard Feres illegal Russian currency dealings. Both French Banks own banking retail outlets under names such as Serb Bank or Ros Bank etc.
      The most laughable are LTCB Merton Scholes’ Derivatives Banking scandals as well as Mitsubishi Banks 1980’s Copper Commodities trading losses.

    • @somethinglikethat2176
      @somethinglikethat2176 2 роки тому +14

      I'm just surprised there was something illegal that didn't involve Deutsche Bank.

    • @dhvanitdesai1044
      @dhvanitdesai1044 2 роки тому +2

      @@somethinglikethat2176 they must be gutted at this opportunity to lose money

  • @thefoolishhiker3103
    @thefoolishhiker3103 2 роки тому +6

    I really enjoy that you deliver interesting financial stories interspersed with your dry wit.

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому +2

      His satire on Elon Musk is hillarious as well, we watched here at the office during lunch break . Elon invented everything from Coca Cola to the Rocket engine using the Nonprofit Green energy tax rebates for inventing fuel cell technology out of Solar Panels he discovered how to make out of recycled plastic cans while growing up in South Africa.

  • @dosgos
    @dosgos 2 роки тому +14

    Was there an exit strategy with such massive concentrated positions? Just insane.

    • @JohnSmith-ox3gy
      @JohnSmith-ox3gy 2 роки тому

      What's an exit strategy?

    • @davianoinglesias5030
      @davianoinglesias5030 2 роки тому

      Stop-Loss and Conform was a perfect strategy. He should have stoped the loss and taken a short position considering that CBS had announced a stock split and him being an experienced trader knew that stock slits always result in Bearish trends

    • @dosgos
      @dosgos 2 роки тому +4

      @@davianoinglesias5030 From a practical perspective, with such huge leveraged equity and derivatives positions, how much downside protection could he have set up? He had no liquidity, he had massive, concentrated notional positions in a few firms, he fraudulently reported his positions to the counter-parties, many of his positions likely were bespoke derivatives, etc.
      If nothing else, trying not to trip up on the lies to the banks and regulators would have been a monumental task.

    • @PIL-t3x
      @PIL-t3x 6 місяців тому

      jail

  • @VenturiLife
    @VenturiLife 2 роки тому +5

    Probably just one out of hundreds running a similar scam on Wall St.

  • @owenfink
    @owenfink 2 роки тому +12

    "I am not a lawyer, and I know nothing about emoji precedents" haha

  • @Borpess812
    @Borpess812 2 роки тому +3

    Danke!

  • @KaiSosceles
    @KaiSosceles 2 роки тому +6

    Love the analysis. Love the dry comedy. One of the best on Finance YT. 👏

  • @tashtant
    @tashtant 2 роки тому +4

    Amazing breakdown. Can’t wait for the newsletters

  • @Max_89
    @Max_89 2 роки тому +9

    The jokes are gold 🤣. Keep it up Mr.Boyle 👍

  • @nicholasboyarko1680
    @nicholasboyarko1680 2 роки тому +60

    The plan likely was to create a higher perceived value for the stocks he purchased. However he became absorbed in the fulfillment of his plan and "let it ride".
    As with so many things, his own greed and hubris was inevitably his downfall.

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому +2

      Gordon Gecko from the Oliver Stone movie, “Wall Street”.
      “Greed for lack of a better word, is good.”

    • @davianoinglesias5030
      @davianoinglesias5030 2 роки тому +3

      There is a very thin line if any,between greed and ambition. Infact the difference between a good trader and a rogue trader is just profits, If Hwang was successful we'd all be calling him a trading Guru or WallStreet Genius😅😅

  • @waffles2513
    @waffles2513 2 роки тому +2

    The sarcastic banter is nearly proportional to the perspective informational value , first rate content pat

  • @parafitality2730
    @parafitality2730 2 роки тому +8

    "Buy the fkn dip"
    - Bill Hwang

  • @genericusername5909
    @genericusername5909 Рік тому +2

    “Which is bad”
    I just love deadpan delivery

  • @richardm123
    @richardm123 2 роки тому +34

    Could the exit strategy have been to, after getting access to more leverage from the increased collateral of his CBS position, to start buying a more diversified basket of stocks and to slowly unwind his house of cards? As the SEC said, this would have taken at least a 100 days, but would've given him a nice leveraged position in the end.

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому

      Arch egos was up 35x times it’s original billion dollars! He could of retired comfortably but I guess he wanted to be the next Paulson or Soros. Both of them had ties to Goldman Sachs whereas Bill H. used his background knowledge of return swaps and family offices.
      He could have been the Asian version of Soros, but ended up like a Bernie Madoff.

    • @friednoodlee6599
      @friednoodlee6599 2 роки тому +7

      That could be a nice strategy in theory
      The concept is that it only works if market participants somehow realized the value of that pumped up stock and made the price stagnant even if Bill sold his position, otherwise, it would be margin call. That means he made four bet:
      The stock's really good that people will appreciate it eventually
      He got enough time to do that
      Market risk literally low throughout the time
      There's minimal corporate event throughout the time
      Well its really a bad bet eventually

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому

      Bills bets in the past were disastrous. His last disaster, “Diesel Gate” was a disaster because he thought VW was going to crater.
      The same could be applied to Tesla. However, the EV market will soon be flooded with more EV makers and its hard to see which makers are going to survive.

    • @tsunderella5826
      @tsunderella5826 2 роки тому +2

      Exit Strategy could be to Purchase a Bunch of short term puts than unload the entirety of the stock position
      Than he can profit off the rapidly falling share price which he manipulated.

    • @friednoodlee6599
      @friednoodlee6599 2 роки тому

      @@tsunderella5826 for him to have more than half of the outstanding share in public, is there even enough put for him to do reckless action like that? Not to mention when its short term, he risked himself many times to be caught by SEC when unloading his position. It just didnt seem viable to me

  • @stonesgoods8100
    @stonesgoods8100 2 роки тому +6

    I laughed out loud at "High Score." Lots of Love for this video

    • @samsonsoturian6013
      @samsonsoturian6013 2 роки тому

      Unfortunately it is literally all the gains are for a lot of these goons

  • @theObscure3rd
    @theObscure3rd 2 роки тому +9

    what if Bill Hwang just thought to himself "fkc it, why not" and then went for it

  • @ag6248
    @ag6248 2 роки тому +1

    Another amazing video. Thanks Patrick.

  • @Ifraneljadida
    @Ifraneljadida 2 роки тому +11

    Reminds me of the Chinese property market. Prices will keep going up and we can keep building more on credit.... right?

  • @WatermanViolinStudio
    @WatermanViolinStudio Рік тому +2

    So did it turn out that using derivatives allows you to circumvent the 5% ownership disclosure rules? You said we'll have to wait and see. Thank you! Love the channel!

  • @jimmyteerex2177
    @jimmyteerex2177 2 роки тому +33

    Moral of the story: If your investment strategy can't survive Murphys law, it won't survive.

  • @LightemupWMH
    @LightemupWMH Рік тому +1

    Your dry wit and humor is the best.

  • @Goodnewsglobal
    @Goodnewsglobal 2 роки тому +2

    Super video Patrick. Might be a good idea to do some more historic trading stories like this from the past. You do them very well. Dan

  • @MRT-co1sd
    @MRT-co1sd 2 роки тому +19

    Bill’s ultimate purpose has been and will always be to service God. That’s why he did what he did. God bless him.

    • @ccc3
      @ccc3 2 роки тому +5

      "Thou shalt do leveraged yolos." - Exodus 20:2

  • @slovokia
    @slovokia 2 роки тому +11

    If I had to pick who is more incompetent Credit Swiss or Bill Hwang, I’d have to pick Credit Swiss. Why are banking regulators letting these large systemically important banks engage in this kind of business in the first place?

  • @NorthStar420
    @NorthStar420 2 роки тому +1

    This channel deserves more subs! 👍🏽

  • @TheMrFishnDucks
    @TheMrFishnDucks 2 роки тому +5

    Oh damn they got Billy, looking forward to what drama will come out in court. They can make a good movie from it.

  • @brodyalden
    @brodyalden 2 роки тому +3

    2:19 gonna clip this audio for my ringtone.

  • @castlehedge
    @castlehedge 2 роки тому +5

    Schedule 13D does not apply to swaps. In Bills Total Return Swaps: he’s the Long Leg which makes money (appreciation) as the stock goes up “in an equal and same amount as the Short Leg except with a negative sign in front of it (depreciation)” which is owed/facing the Bulge Bracket that sold it to him in the first place. From here, the Prime can either hedge internally as you said by buying the stock if it doesn’t have it in its inventory already or enter in another TRS with another BB bank. At this point, the bank is hedged and doesn’t make or lose money on the position minus the mark-ups/mark-downs ie commission. The biggest problem as you pointed out was that each Prime did not know what the other “faced” insofar as how much he had elsewhere which he consequently lied about. The losses that the banks had to eat was on the “hedged” leg of Bill’s trade ie the long stock inventory to hedge the short leg of Bill’s TRS or the TRS the bank “bought” with another CP to hedge the short leg risk facing Bill. The losses equal the amount that Archegos owed each Prime when “Called” as the positions moved against him. Another problem here is the Haircuts which were too small charged by the banks relative to his concentration but it wasnt really that small for each Prime like 10% initial/maintenance at the least…thats not that bad. Its almost close to OCC’s TIMs/4210/PM which is 15%. And anybody can get that. But you CANT shock a portfolio when you don’t know the Tradeaways/Give-ups! Anyways, well done on the video. Mad respect for being an ex-Soros PM, very few people can say that…theres only like two people I can think of and their first names start with Stanley and Victor lol! Cheers!!

    • @dvoicer6785
      @dvoicer6785 2 роки тому +3

      I ain't reading all that shit so, congratulations, or I'm sorry that happened to you.

    • @johntaylor2683
      @johntaylor2683 2 роки тому +3

      well if banks asked if he had loans form other banks, and he said no, then he lied, but if he said yes, or more liklely would have evaded, then, he may be in the clear, dont think that you can argue the case based on the interpetation of what an emoji means for the prosicution.

    • @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki
      @Dwightstjohn-fo8ki 2 роки тому +1

      Wasn't that one of the things that happened in "the Big Short"? Our hero didn't KNOW that he was on the opposite side of his OWN position, and to the tune of 15 billion instead of 3 billion in exposure/????

  • @vabriga1
    @vabriga1 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent, as always.

  • @Meowmeow.age.6
    @Meowmeow.age.6 2 роки тому +2

    Holy Cow the SEC is actually doing things now.

  • @stevenbergstrom4360
    @stevenbergstrom4360 2 роки тому +2

    It has become axiomatic that any scandal worth its Salt must involve Credit Suisse. London is sooooooo last year

  • @OwenRULESSS
    @OwenRULESSS 2 роки тому +9

    I appreciate your caveat at the end… something here doesn’t make sense. He’s a experienced trader and the theory laid out by the SEC makes him seem like a mad man

    • @jasperhorace7147
      @jasperhorace7147 2 роки тому +1

      Agreed, it makes no sense. Maybe he just got carried away with the game and forgot there would be a final whistle!

    • @paulhamill456
      @paulhamill456 2 роки тому

      Experienced trader and mad man are not mutually exclusive in fairness

    • @dredgewalker
      @dredgewalker 2 роки тому

      Simple, he got greedy. No matter how smart you are once you get greedy it makes you blind to the dangers around you since you're so focused on getting that banana. We can be smart yet do stupid things too when we get blinded by hate, lust or whatever, and it happens to the best of us.

  • @gabriels335
    @gabriels335 2 роки тому +1

    The way you described losses as recreation is perfectly apt for gambling.

  • @chrisholland2918
    @chrisholland2918 2 роки тому +17

    Biggest shock about this story was Deutsche's lack of involvement.

    • @Jimbean212
      @Jimbean212 2 роки тому

      you had me in a laughing fit! 😆 made my night.

  • @Jeremysamways1
    @Jeremysamways1 2 роки тому +1

    This was your best one yet.

  • @TheWunderbaar
    @TheWunderbaar 2 роки тому +4

    Who would have ever imagined Bill would do such a thing....

  • @traumateaminternational4732
    @traumateaminternational4732 2 роки тому +5

    This video was on point. I haven't laughed this hard in a while. 😢
    I think that was the right emoji.
    We'll see how it holds up in court.

  • @NICO-Z-TRADER
    @NICO-Z-TRADER 2 роки тому +18

    Another great video ! By the way Patrick, I am glad you were able to solve focus & exposure issues so this video is top notch ! Re: Bill, a safe guess would be that he started making (virtual) money so at a certain time he lost touch with his strategy and risk management. That 30X in one year led to an overflow of dopamine and let's call it a god like sentiment.
    As retail trader, in a middle of a trade that goes against me, it happens to me to ask myself: what would happen if I had billions to make the price go my way :D Seems Bill just did that. By the way, I remember a took lots of long trades on VIAC on the way up beginning of March 21 and some shorts on the way down. I made good money from that saga. I remember also that there were some instances of quotation halts that were quite scary and annoying...

  • @jacobnotte3699
    @jacobnotte3699 2 роки тому +3

    What if he did that and then told his friends to all go short?

  • @edoardoRss
    @edoardoRss 2 роки тому +15

    Hey Patrick great content like always, I do not know if is more faulty the gambling addict or the casinos that lend him money.
    Calling the big Wall Street banks the victims is quite funny

    • @gibbogle
      @gibbogle 2 роки тому +1

      This is the only reason they are going after Hwang.

  • @bonganic5125
    @bonganic5125 2 роки тому +3

    Great video. Very informative and you made me laugh as well.

  • @noneofyourbizness
    @noneofyourbizness 2 роки тому +1

    clear and concise, as ever. cheers

    • @8aemi
      @8aemi 2 роки тому +1

      Always deliver - love how he prioritizes quality over video quantity

  • @HepCatJack
    @HepCatJack 2 роки тому +3

    Is this what made the Paramount / Viacom merger possible ? The depressed shares of VIAC following this manipulation ?

  • @jaydee4397
    @jaydee4397 2 роки тому +1

    These edits are straight up the bee's knees, Patrick!

  • @TheBauwssss
    @TheBauwssss 2 роки тому +5

    I'm loving the memes, Patrick! 😁😁 At least for me, your recent use of memes has made all the difference when it comes to my ability to retain my focus while I'm watching your more theory heavy videos without having my brain sometimes unconsciously 'tune out' halfway through or automatically pulling my phone out of my pocket after which I always lose track of your narrative because I am now wondering why I was holding my phone in my hand all of the sudden. (I hope you know that this isn't in the slightest way meant as an insult or denigration!) But especially when it comes to dragging the viewer (or me, at least) through the more, erm... generally thought of as 'dry', slightly 'monotonous' and/or 'theoretically dense' parts of your videos, I think you've truly found a highly effective winning strategy here!
    And I really do hope you keep meming all the way, every day, right up until the moment (hopefully very far in the future) where we all will have to start spamming 'F' in the comments because you'll have gone away! 😭 And although you're sometimes using a meme incorrectly, it brings me great joy to see that 80% of the time your meming is done in a responsible and correct manner _every time_ and you're well on your way to becoming a true meme lord! 😂🙏 A great weekend, I hope you have 👍🤓 Many greetings from 🇳🇱 NL!!

  • @jo1948
    @jo1948 2 роки тому +2

    4:17 great burn

  • @cremisi1000
    @cremisi1000 2 роки тому +4

    Credit Suisse!!! ...... nah it can't be ... we are all shocked 😂

  • @rzubo
    @rzubo 2 роки тому

    most of this stuff is way over my head, but Patrick's comedic delivery is priceless

  • @Kawiboy
    @Kawiboy 2 роки тому +1

    Terrific as always 👍😉

  • @landkomtur6416
    @landkomtur6416 2 роки тому +2

    Wtf? I haven't even heard about this yet.

  • @uxvocabclub
    @uxvocabclub 2 роки тому

    I subscribed to the newsletter! Thank you!

  • @nathanlindley
    @nathanlindley 2 роки тому +6

    Trying to figure out how you could ever unwind that position and keep any profit...

    • @angloedu5499
      @angloedu5499 2 роки тому

      It would of taken him 100 days or about 3months. He would if lost a lot still but not everything like now!
      Only other play he might of done might of been to place short bets under a different entity, which also might of been possible as well but this would also be discovered.

    • @georgesteffey8375
      @georgesteffey8375 2 роки тому +2

      Aren't we all

    • @nathanlindley
      @nathanlindley 2 роки тому

      @@angloedu5499 but even still, he has to find a buyer at a strike price somewhere near the price he had drive the stock to...

  • @jamesgrover2005
    @jamesgrover2005 2 роки тому +2

    Yes but who's laughing now that pasta prices have gone through the roof?

  • @JL-cu8rh
    @JL-cu8rh 2 роки тому +2

    Patrick's dry humor should be commoditized and listed in a Comedy Channel.
    Thanks for the laughs and good insight into Archegos. LOL (Lots of Love)!

  • @daydreamer-ix2bo
    @daydreamer-ix2bo 2 роки тому

    Is this dead pan? What ever format it is, I love it. Nice work Patrick!

  • @babyjrcc
    @babyjrcc 2 роки тому

    The sums involved are baffling. Some people are never happy.

  • @hike2fish
    @hike2fish Рік тому

    I was chuckling all thru this presentation. I thought the emoji legal precedents were genius. keep it up.

  • @macejenkins9405
    @macejenkins9405 2 роки тому +2

    This is the Greatest sarcasm and dry humor ever

  • @thomstrom9826
    @thomstrom9826 2 роки тому +1

    I enjoyed it thoroughly.

  • @MannyScoot
    @MannyScoot 2 роки тому +2

    They will all come down, the current stock market is a trap.

  • @stebuklas.g
    @stebuklas.g 2 роки тому +2

    I really enjoy Mr Boyle’s extra dry financial humour.

  • @gordonsmith4884
    @gordonsmith4884 2 роки тому +1

    Shortage of pasta making devices...LMAO!

  • @gmeztubenation
    @gmeztubenation 2 роки тому +6

    This dude’s the king of dry humour. Lmao

  • @alokrawat3071
    @alokrawat3071 2 роки тому

    your sense of humor is on next level lol ..,, thanks for this great content

  • @JJJJspam
    @JJJJspam 2 роки тому +2

    not only did he lose 40 million in a week and had to go back to burger King, he gets arrested as well.

  • @bernadmanny
    @bernadmanny 2 роки тому +14

    You can always trust Credit Suisse to be involved in some shoddily concocted scheme, it's always Credit Suisse.
    Debit Suisse, you kill it every time Patrick, lots of love.

  • @wagvice1
    @wagvice1 2 роки тому +1

    Hilarious!! love it! Thanks

  • @zach8564
    @zach8564 2 роки тому +2

    fantastic video

  • @NAZLSI
    @NAZLSI 2 роки тому +3

    I'm confused as well what his exit strategy was.. thinking he planned to pump the price so much that his average sale of all the stocks would still be above the average buy price and overall some net profit... Any thoughts?

  • @ivan200804
    @ivan200804 2 роки тому +3

    Wow. That's some next level fuckery Hwang pulled.

  • @mixom7199
    @mixom7199 2 роки тому +3

    When I applied for a car loan the bank within hours was able to pull out all my existing and previous loan with any form of financial institution and my repayment habit, and also my phone bill repayment history.
    There's no way banks weren't able to come up with a centralized database of shares held on behalf. It's an easy to implement system but nobody wants to do it because they knew it's too darn profitable.

  • @barny1174
    @barny1174 2 роки тому +1

    Woah Benjamin and Patrick Boyle. 2 of the best!