Best B-17 presentation EVER ! My dad was a radio operator aboard the B-17. Flew 35 missions and somehow survived! Weldon Foland Laingsburg, Michigan 1921-2000
I now live in the greater Sacramento area, but until I moved to California in 2001, I lived in the Seattle area. I grew up going to the museum of flight, usually once a month. It's probably my favorite place in Seattle.
My grandfather was a navigator flying out of England. He used to laugh about that .50 caliber. He said he fired it once, without any effect. Over Europe, he flew 14 missions and was given the air medal, a purple heart, and presidential citation with oak leaf clusters. I've always wondered about his plane. Im hoping I'll one day find the actual names. Thanks for the tour.
At 3:14 TO 3:16 shows a fully-tricked out model of the B-17 with extra armament and armor that Boeing built with the help of the USAAF as a bomber formation escort known as the YB-40. It featured a mid-upper turret and the real innovation against frontal attacks by fighters: the chin turret. But it was determined that once the bomber formation lightened their loads after bombing, the YB-40s could not keep up due to their very heavy payloads. But late in the B-17F production run and all B-17G models produced adopted that chin turret as a valuable added defense.
Excellent, Thanks. Your enthusiasm is 'infectious,' much better than COVID. 'Your' Seattle B-17 F is very well equipped with authentic details and bits. I was lucky in 2008 I got to tour B17 G "909" when it flew to visit Manchester, NH. It also happened to fly toward me over the road i lived on, then turned across my cornfield. "909" unfortunately is the Collngs' Foundation B17 that tragically crashed about 2 years ago on the Windsor Locks, CT Airport
As usual, I am late to the party. As an amateur aviation historian for the past four decades or so, I must commend you, Matt, on both your enthusiasm and your knowledge. Those two elements combined are priceless.
The Seattle MOF's B-17F "Boing Bee" is the only Boeing-built B-17 still capable of flying at this time. All of the other currently flyable B-17s are late-production block B-17Gs that were either license-built late in the war in southern California by the Vega division of Lockheed in Burbank or built by Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach. The "movie" 'Memphis Belle' is made up to appear to be a B-17F, but was actually a late production Douglas built B-17G. The 'original' Boeing-built 'Belle' was restored and is now at the National Museum of the United States Air Force near Dayton, OH. Note that "Boeing Bee" and the movie 'Memphis Belle' both appeared in the 1990 movie.
My Dad was on a B-17 as a radio operator and cross trained as a Gunner. He also went to flight school. I still have his B-17 wings and his pilot wings. My wife and I got to fly on the Yankee lady out of Lexington Kentucky. When we came into land I was on the Bomberdears seat. Awesome flight.
I have a friend who was a ball gunner on one of the first “G” models sent to Europe in bare metal. On their first mission to Holland, the Germans selected the bare metal aircraft as their was and they were shot down and he was a PoW for almost 2 years. Post war he became a premier orchid breeder in the SF Bay Area.
Wow, the museum & the collection is a must see if yr. into aviation. We spent half a day there & I got to see for the first time all the cool aircraft that I had only seen in pictures or videos.
So much great information in this video! I built a model of the B-17G at 13 years old and have loved any information I could find ever since. Thank You! Thank You!! THANK YOU!!! ❤
I state that the B-17 is my favorite bomber ever. I had never had the chance to see a B-17closer, One time, I was fortunate to see one flying over the skies of Phoenix, Arizona. "How cool is that?"
Matthew! I had no idea you were at the Museum of Flight! I fell in love with all things aviation at that wonderful place and here you are curating these beautiful birds in my hometown. Keep having fun!
What an interesting video especially the rear gunner area, on the back roads into Diss UK is a small rest area and park the café there has on its walls photos of B17s and their crews, One aircraft was called bachelor boys i cant remember if it was an F or G model, but it was painted. Such brave men i wonder what ever happened to them if they made it back home. Cheshire UK
Thank you Matt, great to see you back on UA-cam, and really loved the tour. Just getting ready to build the Academy B-17F, and all of those beautiful interior shots are going to be a great reference for the scratch building of the interior.
My favorite bomber of the war. I got to wander around in one a few years ago and I was amazed by how damned small it was inside versus outside. In every movie I'd ever seen, there was oodles of room inside but when I walked through the fuselage, I saw that those poor waist gunners were practically right on top of each other!
I didn't realize MOF had a flyable B17, esp one in that great of shape. That is spectacular in its restoration. I took a ride in CAF's Texas Raiders this summer, but it was a little sparse inside compared to this one. Still a bucket list flight but this "F" is gorgeous. I live in Seattle so gotta come see it. Great video, excellent tour!
Boeing Bee is listed as a flyable B-17, but, when Boeing did the restoration for The Museum Of Flight, they made the museum promise not to fly her, at all.
The more I learn the more I'm amazed at the aerial navigation, I think it would be a really cool video to do! You could spend a little time explaining how each way works and what kind of planes would use it. It's kind of amazing that more aircraft didn't get lost especially when in smaller formations. Anyway awesome video thank you for showing all of us around! I wish I could crawl around in there!!
I'd have to say - it's one thing to see it in a B-17. The ones that amaze me are the naval fliers doing this in the pacific - lots of water, one relatively tiny speck of ship to try to get back to.
Thanks for the excellent tour! A few years ago, inside tours used to be offered in the summer. I've had a tour twice. You didn't show us the ball gunner position. It seems even more terrifying than the tail gunner. The gunner was essentially a pretzel inside the ball for the entire mission. The docent who led the tour said that the gunner usually had to be carried off as his legs were "asleep".
WTF who is this guy? This is fabulous. I love the enthusiasm and presentation. Top quality production, fun to watch, and 2nd to none presentation. Count me subscribed !
He used to be in denver colorado in a youtube/PBS show called “wings over the rockies” as the main host. I guess he moved to settle . Glad he is doing well and back on youtube.
@@rickvia8435 If it was what looked like a half-circle popping out under the letters "DF" about 30 seconds in, that is a gun turret. If that object isn't what you're referring to, let us know and we'll look again.
@@museumofflight Yep, that's correct. It's the "Lower Turret" or "Ball Turret" and one like it was operated by my Dad in the Med. Theatre out of Italy (15th AAF). Obvious omission from your presentation. Good video otherwise.
Re: Flying the Lancaster bomber. One pilot, yes. But, they didn't fly in close formations like the Americans did as they flew the night shift against the Germans.
was this the b-17f that was flying with globe air as a firebomber in the 1980s? back in the day when it went up for sale i totally wanted to buy it lol. one problem, i just didnt have a million dollars. wow! been a fan of, and known about the b-17 for 50+ years now, i didnt know about the camera position below the radio operator flight deck. i thought they were mounted just in front of the ball turret. so cool i got to learn something new about my favorite aircraft! some fs, such as the memphis belle (which i just got to see last weekend) were modded to have 2 .50s in the nose. often lead ships would carry a second navigator to assist the 1st in his duties. this was awesome! thanks!
B-17F got a wild, 0.75MPG lol. That's actually pretty good compared to majority of Fighter and Fighter Bombers of the time and even today. The average today is, 0.4--0.8MPG. So 0.75MPG for the technology and engine knowledge at the time of the, B-17, was actually pretty damn good. Just for fun....the F14B/D if left in full afterburner, run completely out of fuel in 8.5 minutes. Lol. Thats 16k pounds of fuel gone in just less than 9 minutes lol. That is, 4 gallons per second!! Gas prices ugh lol.
Even today such "delayed" Bombs are found at Groundworks in germany. worked not as intended sometimes huh... amazing video and i dont even can imagine how it would be in this piece of sheetmetal if they got intercepted by 20 or even 30mm cannons... poor guys. War is shit...
Did you know the only hydraulic systems on the b17 were the cowl flaps and the brakes. The regular flaps, landing gear, etc. were powered by electric motors.
3:14 YB-40 shown. which was a formation defense gunship that the usaaf experimented with. it wasnt really successful because due to all the extra added weight of guns and ammo it couldnt keep up with the rest of the formation once theyd dropped their bombs. it did lead to the creation of the chin turret and bulged cheek positions on later g model b-17s though.
Is the top turret functional like the one on "Sentimental Journey", or is it just a fixed dummy bubble without the lower stanchion with seat, spent round bags, and ammo trays?
Actually, the B-17 still had two Waist Gunners in the crew, at the end of the war, also, mid way through production of the G model, the waist gun positions became fully enclosed, and staggered, plus, both gunners recieved the K-14 Lead Computing Gunsight, along with the Tail Gunner position being redesigned, to allow the gunner more visibility, and a greater range of movement for the guns. The air force never reduced the B-17's crew size, at all, so where did you find out about the B-17s going down to one, or no Waist Gunners, Matthew? I've never seen anything to support your statement about B-17 Waist Gunners being reduced to one, or being eliminated.
You can fly in one of 2 bombers at the Yankee air museum Willow run airport Michigan the Yankee lady a B-17. They also have a nice B-25 the Yankee warrior.
@@kenneth9874 That is wrong, because the R-1820's that power the B-17G are rated at 1200 Horsepower, each, so, in order to lift a max bomb load of more than 10,000lbs, the aircraft would've needed a larger bomb bay, and more powerful engines.
@@kenneth9874 That is incorrect, because, according to a chart in the third edition of B-17 In Action, the G model has a max bomb load of up to 8,000lbs, not 12,700lbs.
Hi John! We did film the ball turret, but due to a limited amount of equipment for filming, the audio was not up to par for this video. We will have a better setup once the Museum is back in action. :)
I find it kind of morbidly funny to talk about "accuracy" with these aircraft. Nowadays? Sure, bomb one side of a house, laser guided GPS guided blah blah blah, we can do that. Then? Accurate - "Watch that plane a few hundred yards over there, drop bombs a second apart, they'll land over X many square miles."
It flew too slow, too low, was too expensive, had too many crew, was overly complex and carried less bomb load than a Mosquito with the same range. Other than that it was an excellent bomber.
Best B-17 presentation EVER !
My dad was a radio operator aboard the B-17.
Flew 35 missions and somehow survived!
Weldon Foland
Laingsburg, Michigan
1921-2000
I now live in the greater Sacramento area, but until I moved to California in 2001, I lived in the Seattle area. I grew up going to the museum of flight, usually once a month. It's probably my favorite place in Seattle.
My grandfather was a navigator flying out of England. He used to laugh about that .50 caliber. He said he fired it once, without any effect.
Over Europe, he flew 14 missions and was given the air medal, a purple heart, and presidential citation with oak leaf clusters.
I've always wondered about his plane. Im hoping I'll one day find the actual names. Thanks for the tour.
At 3:14 TO 3:16 shows a fully-tricked out model of the B-17 with extra armament and armor that Boeing built with the help of the USAAF as a bomber formation escort known as the YB-40. It featured a mid-upper turret and the real innovation against frontal attacks by fighters: the chin turret. But it was determined that once the bomber formation lightened their loads after bombing, the YB-40s could not keep up due to their very heavy payloads. But late in the B-17F production run and all B-17G models produced adopted that chin turret as a valuable added defense.
Excellent, Thanks. Your enthusiasm is 'infectious,' much better than COVID. 'Your' Seattle B-17 F is very well equipped with authentic details and bits. I was lucky in 2008 I got to tour B17 G "909" when it flew to visit Manchester, NH. It also happened to fly toward me over the road i lived on, then turned across my cornfield. "909" unfortunately is the Collngs' Foundation B17 that tragically crashed about 2 years ago on the Windsor Locks, CT Airport
As usual, I am late to the party. As an amateur aviation historian for the past four decades or so, I must commend you, Matt, on both your enthusiasm and your knowledge. Those two elements combined are priceless.
The Seattle MOF's B-17F "Boing Bee" is the only Boeing-built B-17 still capable of flying at this time. All of the other currently flyable B-17s are late-production block B-17Gs that were either license-built late in the war in southern California by the Vega division of Lockheed in Burbank or built by Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach. The "movie" 'Memphis Belle' is made up to appear to be a B-17F, but was actually a late production Douglas built B-17G. The 'original' Boeing-built 'Belle' was restored and is now at the National Museum of the United States Air Force near Dayton, OH. Note that "Boeing Bee" and the movie 'Memphis Belle' both appeared in the 1990 movie.
Actually, Boeing Bee is not a flyer whatsoever, because of the agreement Boeing, and the Museum of Flight made for her restoration.
My Dad was on a B-17 as a radio operator and cross trained as a Gunner. He also went to flight school. I still have his B-17 wings and his pilot wings. My wife and I got to fly on the Yankee lady out of Lexington Kentucky. When we came into land I was on the Bomberdears seat. Awesome flight.
Thanks for the tour, Matt. The F model has always been my favorite. Beautiful restoration.
I have a friend who was a ball gunner on one of the first “G” models sent to Europe in bare metal. On their first mission to Holland, the Germans selected the bare metal aircraft as their was and they were shot down and he was a PoW for almost 2 years. Post war he became a premier orchid breeder in the SF Bay Area.
Excellent presentation! Good job!
I love his passion for aviation!
Wow, the museum & the collection is a must see if yr. into aviation. We spent half a day there & I got to see for the first time all the cool aircraft that I had only seen in pictures or videos.
So much great information in this video! I built a model of the B-17G at 13 years old and have loved any information I could find ever since. Thank You! Thank You!! THANK YOU!!! ❤
I state that the B-17 is my favorite bomber ever. I had never had the chance to see a B-17closer, One time, I was fortunate to see one flying over the skies of Phoenix, Arizona. "How cool is that?"
Compared to the B-17, the B-29 will be a breath of fresh air. Literally, thanks to the pressurization!
Matthew! I had no idea you were at the Museum of Flight! I fell in love with all things aviation at that wonderful place and here you are curating these beautiful birds in my hometown. Keep having fun!
Good to have Matt at The Museum of Flight, his videos are very interesting and a must watch.
What an interesting video especially the rear gunner area, on the back roads into Diss UK is a small rest area and park the café there has on its walls photos of B17s and their crews, One aircraft was called bachelor boys i cant remember if it was an F or G model, but it was painted. Such brave men i wonder what ever happened to them if they made it back home. Cheshire UK
Thank you Matt, great to see you back on UA-cam, and really loved the tour. Just getting ready to build the Academy B-17F, and all of those beautiful interior shots are going to be a great reference for the scratch building of the interior.
My favorite bomber of the war. I got to wander around in one a few years ago and I was amazed by how damned small it was inside versus outside. In every movie I'd ever seen, there was oodles of room inside but when I walked through the fuselage, I saw that those poor waist gunners were practically right on top of each other!
That's true, but, then they were changed to a staggered position later on.
I'm so glad to see matt again I was worried they stopped making videos but he always picks the greatest music for his content
I didn't realize MOF had a flyable B17, esp one in that great of shape. That is spectacular in its restoration. I took a ride in CAF's Texas Raiders this summer, but it was a little sparse inside compared to this one. Still a bucket list flight but this "F" is gorgeous. I live in Seattle so gotta come see it. Great video, excellent tour!
Boeing Bee is listed as a flyable B-17, but, when Boeing did the restoration for The Museum Of Flight, they made the museum promise not to fly her, at all.
The more I learn the more I'm amazed at the aerial navigation, I think it would be a really cool video to do! You could spend a little time explaining how each way works and what kind of planes would use it. It's kind of amazing that more aircraft didn't get lost especially when in smaller formations. Anyway awesome video thank you for showing all of us around! I wish I could crawl around in there!!
I'd have to say - it's one thing to see it in a B-17. The ones that amaze me are the naval fliers doing this in the pacific - lots of water, one relatively tiny speck of ship to try to get back to.
Great tour thanks
It’s great seeing Matt on UA-cam again since wings over the Rockies
Love your museum - you've got great planes!!!!
Wow great tour
Fascinating!
Thanks for the excellent tour!
A few years ago, inside tours used to be offered in the summer. I've had a tour twice. You didn't show us the ball gunner position. It seems even more terrifying than the tail gunner. The gunner was essentially a pretzel inside the ball for the entire mission. The docent who led the tour said that the gunner usually had to be carried off as his legs were "asleep".
WTF who is this guy? This is fabulous. I love the enthusiasm and presentation. Top quality production, fun to watch, and 2nd to none presentation. Count me subscribed !
He used to be in denver colorado in a youtube/PBS show called “wings over the rockies” as the main host. I guess he moved to settle . Glad he is doing well and back on youtube.
@@jordan23fann Very cool, thank you for providing some of the back story!
Very enjoyable!
EXCELLENT. WILL CONTRIBUTE.
Good presentation. I just wonder what that round thing I saw below the plane was?.?.
Rick, do you have a timecode that we can reference? Where in the video is the mysterious object?
@@museumofflight It's pretty much throughout the vid. It's a round thing hanging from the bottom about midship
@@rickvia8435 If it was what looked like a half-circle popping out under the letters "DF" about 30 seconds in, that is a gun turret. If that object isn't what you're referring to, let us know and we'll look again.
@@museumofflight Yep, that's correct. It's the "Lower Turret" or "Ball Turret" and one like it was operated by my Dad in the Med. Theatre out of Italy (15th AAF). Obvious omission from your presentation. Good video otherwise.
Mathew I found you!! I really missed your "behind the wings" segment!! Glad to see you back in action!
My old electrical shop teacher flu A B17 during the war he was cool.❤
Just found you and now im binge watching your videos, i really enjoy it lol
I have been waiting for a video like this on the b-17
Great video.
Why doesn't he just admit that he is Owen Wilson and this is his real passion! But seriously a great video on such an epic war bird thank you
VERY NICE VIDEO...
More like this please.
Re: Flying the Lancaster bomber. One pilot, yes. But, they didn't fly in close formations like the Americans did as they flew the night shift against the Germans.
Those waist gunners had a saying about bumping into one another in the waist position. They called it "Cheek to Cheek dancing"
was this the b-17f that was flying with globe air as a firebomber in the 1980s? back in the day when it went up for sale i totally wanted to buy it lol. one problem, i just didnt have a million dollars.
wow! been a fan of, and known about the b-17 for 50+ years now, i didnt know about the camera position below the radio operator flight deck. i thought they were mounted just in front of the ball turret. so cool i got to learn something new about my favorite aircraft!
some fs, such as the memphis belle (which i just got to see last weekend) were modded to have 2 .50s in the nose.
often lead ships would carry a second navigator to assist the 1st in his duties.
this was awesome! thanks!
I wonder what the 2 different nose arts were for the movie he spoke of?
Lots of cool facts.
Yankee Air Museum in Willow Run Michigan you can fly in a B-17G
B-17F got a wild, 0.75MPG lol. That's actually pretty good compared to majority of Fighter and Fighter Bombers of the time and even today. The average today is, 0.4--0.8MPG. So 0.75MPG for the technology and engine knowledge at the time of the, B-17, was actually pretty damn good. Just for fun....the F14B/D if left in full afterburner, run completely out of fuel in 8.5 minutes. Lol. Thats 16k pounds of fuel gone in just less than 9 minutes lol. That is, 4 gallons per second!! Gas prices ugh lol.
Even today such "delayed" Bombs are found at Groundworks in germany. worked not as intended sometimes huh... amazing video and i dont even can imagine how it would be in this piece of sheetmetal if they got intercepted by 20 or even 30mm cannons... poor guys.
War is shit...
You gave few a quite details those are hard to find anyboy to tell ya!!! Quite great one mate!!!
Did you know the only hydraulic systems on the b17 were the cowl flaps and the brakes. The regular flaps, landing gear, etc. were powered by electric motors.
I may have missed it , but did you cover the ball turret ? Or did this model not have one , just curious, thanks
Interesting presentation. What happened to the ball turret position? Norden (vice spelling Nordon) bombsight. Keep up the good work!
Can you please make a video about b-52
Thanks for the suggestion!
3:14 YB-40 shown. which was a formation defense gunship that the usaaf experimented with. it wasnt really successful because due to all the extra added weight of guns and ammo it couldnt keep up with the rest of the formation once theyd dropped their bombs. it did lead to the creation of the chin turret and bulged cheek positions on later g model b-17s though.
Knew a retired USAF Colonel who as a LT he and his crew went to Seattle and picked up new B-17
Brilliant stuff!!! 1 question, inside the G model, were they left bare metal or painted interior green?
Green
That's zinc chromate paint. It's an anti-corrosion coating, and was in all planes.
@@armorer94 it's a heavy paint
No mention of the ball turret gunner?
Is the top turret functional like the one on "Sentimental Journey", or is it just a fixed dummy bubble without the lower stanchion with seat, spent round bags, and ammo trays?
There’s a b52 stratofortress in Australia in Darwin, ;)
What do the letters outside on the fuse mean?
If I want to make a donation, where do I have to send it?
i need to see him fly it
Whats about the bella gunner?
I realy want to go inside a b 17
cool
Actually, the B-17 still had two Waist Gunners in the crew, at the end of the war, also, mid way through production of the G model, the waist gun positions became fully enclosed, and staggered, plus, both gunners recieved the K-14 Lead Computing Gunsight, along with the Tail Gunner position being redesigned, to allow the gunner more visibility, and a greater range of movement for the guns. The air force never reduced the B-17's crew size, at all, so where did you find out about the B-17s going down to one, or no Waist Gunners, Matthew? I've never seen anything to support your statement about B-17 Waist Gunners being reduced to one, or being eliminated.
How did they go to toilet?
Dropped the ball turret somewhere....
You're a good guy jejejeje!!😉😎🐏👍
You can fly in one of 2 bombers at the Yankee air museum Willow run airport Michigan the Yankee lady a B-17. They also have a nice B-25 the Yankee warrior.
Most of the remaining WW2 bombers and fighters never went overseas. After the war was over the aircraft overseas were scrapped where they were
"negative 50 below"? One or the other, not both.
The max bomb load of the B-17 was around 8,000lbs, not 9700 lbs.
G model maximum internal payload of 12,775lb's
@@kenneth9874 That is wrong, because the R-1820's that power the B-17G are rated at 1200 Horsepower, each, so, in order to lift a max bomb load of more than 10,000lbs, the aircraft would've needed a larger bomb bay, and more powerful engines.
@@johnosbourn4312 official specification
@@kenneth9874 That is incorrect, because, according to a chart in the third edition of B-17 In Action, the G model has a max bomb load of up to 8,000lbs, not 12,700lbs.
@@johnosbourn4312 check something reliable
You skipped the tail gunner.
You mean the ball turret
How do you Go to the Bathroom on the B-17 and how could you Forget the ball turret.
Glad to know they FIRE that gun 35 thousands feet, who they are shooting ? From up there.
Enemy fighters
You forgot about the ball gunner
My brother-in-law
Was one
By the way, the name Nordon is incorrect, the correct name is Norden, and, yes, it was a very sophisitcated piece of equipment, Eighty Years ago.
You forgot the ball turret how could you.
Hi John! We did film the ball turret, but due to a limited amount of equipment for filming, the audio was not up to par for this video. We will have a better setup once the Museum is back in action. :)
@@museumofflight just a silly question....what are the dimentions of the waist gunners windows please? Always wanted to know.
Is Matt there for good now or what?
He's the chief curator, so yes!
I wonder if someone had a cup of joe even when German pesky 109s where shooting at the b17s
"Norden" bombsite, not "Nordon".
I find it kind of morbidly funny to talk about "accuracy" with these aircraft. Nowadays? Sure, bomb one side of a house, laser guided GPS guided blah blah blah, we can do that. Then? Accurate - "Watch that plane a few hundred yards over there, drop bombs a second apart, they'll land over X many square miles."
Compared to the british they were accurate, they were lucky to hit a factory, the brits were lucky to hit a city
It’s a shame all the B17s are being grounded for the spar AD
Hi mat Why are you using a picture of an early B-29 as the lead to a B-17 vid?
Norden
one the f models the all american had a 50.cal in the nose
Narrator seems surprised they were trying to kill Germans...
Not interested in a training plane! I want to see a B17g that flew over Europe or Asia and saw combat.
c
It flew too slow, too low, was too expensive, had too many crew, was overly complex and carried less bomb load than a Mosquito with the same range. Other than that it was an excellent bomber.
How's your kool-aid, the maximum internal payload of a B17g was 12,775lb's
The lancaster was too low, not the turbocharged b17, plus the b17 was vastly more survivable which was why the british had to fly at night
Who approved this? How many drugs is this guy on? Why would you think teaching children this stuff is a good idea???...WW2 ended...Jesus Christ
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