I’m a home inspector in the Seattle area. I’m seeing more and more hybrid heat pump water heaters. The only negative I see is if they are installed in an interior room and not a garage. They are noisy and they discharge cold air into a room you may not wanted cooled down in the cold months.
I own a water heater company in Phoenix. I have the Rheem Proterra 50 in my own home. These are AMAZING for the southwest. Garages can easily get 130 degrees in the summer so the heat pump is about as efficient as they can be. I think my hybrid costs me about 60 dollar a year to use lol
What about in the winter or at night when it's cold in the desert and there isn't much heat in the surrounding area. Does it switch to the elements only?
@charlesking4843 half the year it's still hot at night. I think we had two+ months were it didn't get below 100 degrees. And yes, you can still put into energy saver mode during the cold months.
Just found out about these a couple of months ago when I was getting solar installed. The solar rep told me about them and even in iowa can work really well. So I did some research for myself just to make sure the guy was being honest. After all that it seemed like a good investment and got one last week to replace my gas water heater and I plan on installing it by months end.
I’m a plumber in California. I’ve installed dozens of heat pump water heaters. They are the best option in my opinion. Hardly ever get calls back. I love the Bradford white and ao smith options with the water connections up top. Rheem is kind of a pain with their side exclusive connections. If a customer has solar and a big family they can save up to 100$ a month on energy bills. We’ve installed some for customers with Rebates making the install 2k. Without rebates it’s about a $7k job.
that is quite a ridiculous price tag considering it is basically a fridge with hot side radiator stuck into a water tank... 2k price might be reasonable, but 7k is just plain robbery
@@dsfs17987 a regular tank is already 90% efficient combine with a micro flow shower, extra thermo blanket. set your gas to low or electricity to shut off for on peak hours.
So I own a plumbing company in Austin tx and your video here on these heat pump water heaters is very useful. I actually found out just a few hours ago from a client that these are out there. I guess the plumber in me says I need to know everything I can about it so I can better serve my community and leave our clients with enough info to make an informed decision if nothing else. I love to save my clients money and give them as much info on plumbing tech as possible in order to get ideas out there in the area. It serves our plumbing family well to do so. Thankyou for what you are doing and I will chime in time to time when I have something to offer or have questions. Thanks. Ryan king Owner of r.i.s.
I had one in my last home in Washington and it worked great. My new home in Dallas has an electric water heater and I'm planning on just swapping it out. It's a 2 year payback from the energy savings so it's really a no brainer.
@@Shiddyvet I moved from Seattle to DFW Texas. Best decision of my life. Quality of life is great - conservative politicians have common sense about what matters most for daily life and have sound economic policies. Getting a hybrid water heater myself too since the garage is gets unpleasantly hot/humid during summer, worth the extra cost and electricity savings.
I have solar, so switched from gas to hybrid so that my solar generation can be used towards hot water generation too. My main complaint is I was not expecting the damn thing to make my house hum. The vibrations/resonance the compressor generates can transfer into your house's frame depending how the water heater is mounted/seated and strapped. I did the best I could be using rubber and flex hoses where possible so the vibrations to the copper piping is limited. I also used EVA Antivibration pads under the heater itself, where the heater would touches my walls, and underneath the water heater strapping. These mitigation efforts help, but some vibration/hum still makes it into the main house. I am used to it, and it no longer bugs me.
The had three installers either give me exorbitant bids for a hybrid or turn me down flat. I finally got a decent price from a plumber through my local Lowes. My experience falls right in with what you expressed in this video.
I just installed the AO Smith 50 gallon in my house. Did everything myself except the 220. I did a gas one years ago and decided to try this one myself after my plumber no showed 5 times after assuring me he wouldn't. Follow the instructions and it's pretty easily done. I have pex and used shark bites made specifically for water heater hook up. Works great so far. In Wisconsin so basement setup. No more dehumidifier saves even more money too!
@Tony Berger What about winter time? This thing is will cool your basement so no savings during winter. You need to heat your basement in order for the heat pump to heat your water. When it gets older it gets louder. Wait until it breaks down and all your savings will go down the drain. I hope it will work long time for you though.
@@vihayster one of our furnaces is close by and so far we've had some pretty cold weather 0F or better and it's still performing well. We'll know more when we finally move into the house and use it full time. If it ends up being experience to operate we will install solar to help off set the cost of electricity.
Roger, you're right - I did the install myself and it was easy. I even took advantage of the water being off to ditch some old shut-off valves and replace them with ball valves. I live in Maine in an old, uninsulated, double-wall brick farmhouse and it's worked great. Highly recommend converting to a heat pump water heater.
I've installed them in garages in Atlanta, GA. They worked well until it got cold. They produce dehumidified air which at 50 degrees can make a garage feel like a meat locker and frost the windshield on the cars. I know you can duct it into the hvac system, but I'm not an hvac tech, I'm a plumber. I'm not versed in sizing the ducts to make it work. I just wish that once the units detects a certain temperature, it would automatically switch from heat pump to elements seamlessly.
@@fixerbreaker8832 I’ve never had or installed one, but am interested in getting one installed. From what I’ve read, the water heater will also dehumidify your basement. To what degree, and will it replace your dehumidifier? Not sure, maybe? Maybe not? but it will help out the dehumidifier for sure so you can run it less, maybe even not at all depending on how humid it is
Be cautious about installing these in cold climate areas. The hybrid mode throws a lot of cold air. Great in the summer but not so much in the winter. Make sure you can isolate the room they are in or vent them outside. If not you will be running heat to counteract the cold air they throw off. We take ours out of hybrid mode in the dead of winter just for this reason. I didn’t realize this but we do not regret installing it.
Our house, like many in the Northeast, are built on a slab, so the hot water heater and furnace are on the same floor as living space. Even with a door to upstairs, the room on the slab gets cold in the summer, so we would definitely need to add electric resistant heaters to the room to make up for the heat loss by a heat pump hot water heater. Unless the unit is placed in unheated space that remains above freezing, I don't understand why one would purchase a heat pump hot water heater.
@@howard1431 We installed ours for three reasons. It was the least expensive and least intrusive. It had one of the lowest operating costs. In hybrid mode it only draws 500 watts so we can run it on our generator. If we have to run it on electric mode only 4-6 months a year I’m still glad we bought it. For the other 4-6 months it cools and dehumidifies our downstairs level. I don’t see the need to add extra heating.
Get the warranty. HD rep. strongly recommended I get the replacement plan, and I did. Replaced my Rheem unit in first five years. Still on second unit three years running and just had condensate list issue/alarm despite no clog. These hybrid units are getting better. I have 80 gallon unit--wonderful for 4-5 person house and cooling the garage. Get the big box additional warranty--chances are you will use it. Keeps my garage very cool and when temps get too cold you can temp. switch to all electric mode as needed. I do this only when it gets into the 20s which is rare in SC.
I purchased a Rheem 80 gallon hybrid in 2021. Its great- has different modes (heat pump only, high demand, electric only, Energy Saver and I think Vacation or something). I have been monitoring my energy since 2014. I can tell you without a doubt that the WATER HEATING portion of your electric bill will reduce about 65-75 percent. Some people misinterpret "save 60%) but not off of your entire bill- just the water heating portion. Now if your a single person or maybe a couple with no kids- It will take longer for you to recover your initial cost so it may not be worth it for you. In my case I have 3 little ones along with me and girlfriend and her 2 teen age daughters (you know they take LONG showers) and I have definitely saved on the water heating side
Sanden makes a more high end one that isn't necessarily gonna save you any money... but it is a split system, so the evaporator is outside, which could make a huge difference for marginal heating climates, where you don't want to be pulling heat and moisture from the conditioned envelope in heating season. Also seems like it might be good to combine heat pump water heaters with solar thermal water heaters (in series). One other nice thing you can do is set the tank temperature well above scalding, and then use a thermal mix valve inside or closer to the fixtures to make it safe; that way you have warmer water faster at fixtures, with no new recirc or branch volume reduction work.
Got 300 lts stainless steel 304 isolated with 5cm high density foam. 1) 4 SQM flat solar panels copper pipes with aluminum collector 2) air heat pump as back up with SP 46 degrees CELSIUS (114 farenheit) My heat pumps is off almost the whole year except when I have visits, extra laundry or weather is terrible. BEST DESICION EVER!
Really? Before you do that, you had better check on the payback period of the additional cost. It’s going to take a long time to make the hybrid a better decision.
The thing I’m worried about is. DO NOT BUY ONE THAT HOLDS THE SAME AMOUNT YOUR CURRENT UNIT HOLDS!! If you have a 30 gallon then get a 50 gallon. Unless you live by yourself. These things don’t heat up the water fast enough for constant usage.
@@Archdukecollins ya. I know. Which is why I’m annoyed at this video. They mention none of these things. Even worse. They give an example of taking out a 50 gal and putting in a 50 gal
I have one for 11 years now in my garage. Keep in mind that they make noise and create cool air.If they are installed in a living space they will take heat out of that same living space. This is a great water heater with a 400 percent energy advantage but they will not work in every household. If you duct the cool air outside you will create a negative pressure in the home. Again not for every home situation but a great product if you have the right environment for installation.
Clearance Space: Access to air allows heat pump water heaters to operate at peak performance. Most models need about 750 to 1000 cubic feet of air, which is about the size of a 10 ft x 10 ft room. If your water heater is tucked away in a tight closet, a simple louvered door or jumper duct will do the trick.
I have had one of these for just about 10 years now a GE Geo Spring, I can't compare the cost savings as I had a propane hot water heater before and I was remodeling and updating all systems and compared this to similarly sized propane heaters and the energy star rating was lower on the hybrid and a coworker had the same one so I got it and a 10 year warranty. It hasn't missed a beat and I even lost track on how old it was and have not done much to it other than clean the filter here and there. I live in the New England and it's installed in my basement and not had any ill effects of it being install in a colder climate, but my basement only gets to about 50 degrees in the winter. Once it starts giving me problems I have see no problem replacing it with another other than the price has gone up a lot since I picked mine up.
I purchased a similar GE GeoSpring Heat Pump water heater back in 2016 and it started throwing fault codes 6 months after the extended 5 yr service warranty ended. Bradford now covers these as GE no longer sells this type of heat pump water heater. I just replaced the fan and Bradford sent the part for free (10 years parts) but, again labor is NOT included. Literally 1 month later it throws a FF code and stops working again. Now it looks more serious and unfortunately nobody works on them. My HVAC guy sniffed it looking for a leak, but couldn't find it and he said the evaporator coil looked very rusty (this is located in a clean conditioned space) and said unfortunately they don't work on water heaters. I called over a dozen hot water heaters service companies and plumbers in around Atlanta and no luck and Bradford doesn't have a support/ service list. So looks like this is now going to be a standard electric heater until that stops working. Highly recommend not buying one of these heat pump water heaters and just buy a Rheem Marathon.
Got a 32yr old gas tank water heater, that has basically run with zero maint, no changing anodes, no flushing... still running....I seriously doubt anything made today will perform like that older model....just hoping I can get an exact duplicate of what I have with no electronics and just a mechanical that basically is set it and forget it.
Selling is important. I sold myself on this with research. Rheem Hybrid 50 in FL garage, ideal! Low energy use, cool air discharge and humidity control. There use to be a AC heat pump with water heating, but haven't seen in a while. Gonna try heat pump clothes dryer next. My income isn't such to get govt credit, so would be nice if it went to vendor
If the gen 4 rheem heat pump water heater were still available I'd likely get one now, but of the locally available heat pumps it seems that the gen 5 rheems are almost universally noisy, and others have numerous complaints about condenser failure within a few years. I don't have a garage, just a dirt crawlspace that can be dug out a little for a taller tank if needed then I would replace the vapor barrier. My current electric water heater is 25 years old and I love that I can go to any hardware store and get replacement heating elements and thermostats for $20-40. It's silent and never runs out of hot water. With a powered anode rod it can last almost indefinitely. I want to install a heat pump water heater to decrease energy use but if there is a fair chance that I will hear it throughout the house or it will need to be replaced, even under warranty, in the next 5 to 10 years I don't see how that saves anything.
Hi Roger. I am lucky enough to work at Ferguson, and yet, I did not understand the benefits of a hybrid water heater till I watched your video... As you said, it's all about learning. We are building our first home this year and are now seriously looking at going hybrid. We were originally thinking of both a larger and smaller water heater (larger for kitchen, laundry, outside kitchen, and guest rooms and smaller for master suite). Do you think that's necessary with a larger hybrid unit? Thank you again for the great info. Louie
Personally, I think it matters where you live and if the heat pump hot water heater can be located in unheated space where it doesn't freeze. We have high efficiency tanless hot water heater that costs very little to run and can provide endless hot water (if needed)
Believe it or not we had one installed in our new house in 1987. It drew air from the outside and had a supplemental space heater. It lasted 20 years. The brand was Dairy Equipment Corporation.
Hey Roger! Love seeing the Ferguson partnership! (20 year vet of that great organization). I'm in the planning process to replace the original 50 gallon LP power vent water heater that came with my home. I was convinced I wanted to go tankless, but these hybrid heat pump heaters have me intrigued. Where do you think I'd see more significant energy savings? 1) going to tankless where I'm heating on-demand 2) Hybrid heat pump?
Depends on your current set up, water needs, and space available. The heat pumps do take up a bigger space and make more noise than a tankless...if that's a non-factor for you then maybe a heat pump is the way to go. Personally in my home and my set up, a tankless would make more sense...hope this helps
My experience has been less than stellar. I’ve had two hybrid water heaters fail within 3 years, and now the second replacement is failing. The first one started throwing an ECC error on the display. After working State tech support and doing some troubleshooting, they authorized a replacement. The replacement was a newer model, so I had hopes it would be better. Nope! The new one started leaking after about 6 months. State authorized another replacement. Now the latest one is failing. It’s not keeping up with demand. After 3 minutes in the shower, the water starts cooling off. I noticed that the heat pump unit is constantly running. If I put it into electric mode, it works fine. I want to find a way to change the default to electric so it won’t kick back over to hybrid. I found instructions to do this for the older 3-button model, but not for the newer model like I have. I live in NC, so not a cold environment, and the water heater is installed in the garage. If I can’t find a way to set it into permanent electric mode, I’m going to have it replaced with a brand I’ve actually heard of, like Rheem or GE. And not a hybrid/heat pump water heater. Any savings I may have realized by using a heat pump water heater have been wiped out in labor costs. I’m done with them.
What about cold weather climates? Here in Washington they are all but required to get your energy credits in new construction. What about when installed in a interior room, say a closest, if the cold air isn't vented, during the cold weather months you are putting cold air right into the space you are trying to heat. How do you reconcile those issues? I've seen apartments that do this exact thing, placing these in spaces where only a traditional heater should go. I can see the value for southern states but here up north, I don't think the builders think some of these issues through.
I follow some plumbers on youtube, tiktok and Instagram and can sometimes pick up some good stuff through them but I mainly do research on my own to find out more and ask questions to my manager when I get stuck. Surprisingly, I've been plumbing for 8 years and still haven't done one!
@@RogerWakefield Well with the possibility of new legislation on the horizon, they may become the new norm and we might not have much choice but to adapt and evolve. I hope to follow in your footsteps to help teach and lead the next generation of plumbers in this world 💪
I have two water heaters in my garage. A 50 gallon electric water heater feeds into a 40 gallon electric water heater, which has a recirculating pump on it. I am considering a hybrid water heater. I do not think a hybrid water heater would be efficient in a recirculating mode. I placed a remote control switch on the recirculating pump so it is not recirculating water 24/7. When we need hot water, I use the remote controls placed in specific locations throughout the house to turn on the recirculating pump, which stays on for two hours then automatically shuts off. The concrete foundation was acting like a heat sink and causing the 40 gallon hot water tank heating elements to turn on too often. By adding that remote, I reduced the electric used on that hot water heater by 80 percent. I am wondering if the 50 gallon water heater feeding into the forty gallon unit would be a good candidate for a hybrid water heater. I don’t care if it cools my four-car garage, but I do not have a drain in that area.
if the 50 is feeding into the 40 then in theory the 40 should hardly every turn on . even with recirc pump. I have an 80 gallon Hybrid feeding into 50 gallon traditional electric and an on demand recirc pump as well and my 2nd water heater almost NEVER comes on. Only in super high demand situations like when we have family over for the weekend (usually like 15 extra people) then when everyone is showering - the 2nd tank occasionally has to turn on. other than that- it doesnt run at all 99 percent of the time. My recirc line and all supply lines are in my attic. If yours are in your foundation-that may be the cause of it running so much
sorry i just saw that your recirc is going into the 40 gallon. you should run it to the 50 gallon as it has more volume of water and when a "little bit" goes in- it wont turn on as often but YES the hybrid would ALWAYS use less than the regular electric- recirc or not it will use around 350 watts instead of 4500 watts. It will run longer but it will use less electricity
@@homersalazar8479 , that is true if the 50 gallon water heater is heating the water to 130 degrees. I set my 50 at 100 degrees. Only the forty gallon is set at 130 degrees. In the summer, the 50 gallon hardly runs, because the temperature in my garage is above 90 degrees.
Ducted to draw hot air from the attic in Hawaii and blow cool air into bedrooms; works amazing! I’d estimate it cost no more than $50/month for family of 3 with highest electric rates in country.
Not sure if it's right for me. I live in a small condo. My hot water heater, now 20 years old and still running fine, is in a closet with my gas furnace, washer and dryer. So this would cool my place in the winter causing the furnace to run more, and be loud?
@@RogerWakefield Most had never done it before so it was just a lack of experience. The one that was willing to try was worried about not enough air circulation in my attic (1000 sq ft attic). I went tankless and will give a try next time. I assume everyone will have their practice in by then and feel confident about the install.
Yes and that was an important topic for this video...experience...more plumbers need to be aware and knowledgeable of them so they won't have to turn a customer away from a product that they want.
Have a 12 year old 80 gallon electric water heater that there is a HVAC cold air return above the existing water heater. Would if not offer some benefit if a duct was added to the hold air return if I moved to a Hybrid Water Heaters? Opening the duct during the summer to draw in the cool air the Hybrid Water Heater is creating into the HVAC? Maryland
The only negative if it's installed in a livable basement, it will cool it down during the winter. It is an extra cost to vent outside might be a great option. Still huge savings and great way during the summer to cool down a space and remove extra humidity plus save 💰💰💰🤑..
So I have not installed one but when my normal one goes out id like to. I have a question though, My washing machine is right next to my water heater. Can I install a fitting to take the condensate line out with the washer drain or is that not a good idea? Or just shove the line next to the drain of the washer in the drain pipe?
I am in Florida. I just purchased a 65 gallon Rheem Hybrid. Already 3 installers declined to install it (I realized they don't know anything about Hybrid water heaters). They are almost laughed on me to pay 3 times more than a regular electric water heater. One plumber(sales) gave me a $1700 estimate and I got a Rheem estimate to, $2200!!!! I purchased with a chunk of discount and counting some tax credit/rebate, but hard to find a decent plumber with an affordable installation cost. I am almost ready to take it back and buy something else.
it is no different to set up than plain electric heater, the only added "connection" is the condensation drain tube, nothing else is any different than any other sort of water heater, and certainly easier to do than natural gas, since you don't have to deal with gas supply piping, those plumber prices are quite absurd
@@dsfs17987 I know how it works, I watched many many videos. That doesn't help me to find a decent plumber. I got 2 more estimates. $1300 and $1400 :( . I didn't want to do by myself, because needed to move the water lines behind the wall. I am OK with SharkBites, but not behind walls. Soldering wasn't an option for me. Finally, I gave up on the uneducated plumbers and I installed it myself. It looks good, works well. I paid less than $300 for the parts and tools and the wall repair.
Can one of these heat pump water heaters be used as a dedicated radiant heat system? Im thinking for a small house about 1000-1200 sq ft? I think this technology is amazing but I’m not sure it would work for a radiant application. Any info on this would be awesome. Thanks !
I love mine. yes, the side connections were annoying, but with the power company rebate, it cost me $50.00 delivered to my garage floor. the condensate waters my roses. only issues with them is if they;re in too small a room, they refrigerate the room, and they do produce condensate, so if you don't have a drain or an exterior wall, you have to find a way to get it out.
I just installed one and begged the customer to aware. It will use electricity to run pump and compressor also the heating elements. It is great if you are in a climate that is right for the unit. Time will tell She wanted it because others have them... the cost is astronomical, not for the common person
General rules ot thumb for heat pumps i use, a heat pump is twice as efficient (dollar wise) as a natural gas heat system, 3 times as efficient as a propane system, and 4 times as efficient as a electric system. If you would pay $100 for electric You would pay $75 for propane $50 for gas And $25 for heat pump
Good only in the south or warm weather areas. Up north they will freeze you out because they expel all that cold air. It’s like having an air conditioner running and you don’t want that in the cold winter months.
Usually. But not if the water heater is on propane which can be more expensive than straight electric. So a heat pump water heater is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost to operate than straight electric or propane.
Heat Pump is more efficient scientifically. It takes less "energy" to move the heat in the air to the water in the tank than it does to burn a fuel and convert it to heat. The question I think you are asking is: "is it cheaper to run a (hybrid) heat pump vs Gas?". This depends on your local electric and gas rates. If you have solar, you can basically get free hot water if your system is sized correctly.
Roger, I live in Fort Worth and I’m very interested in upgrading my water heater once the rebate scheme is in place. Can you recommend a plumber/company to get an instal quote?
Most units I can find are hybrid models. can the resistive heating element mode be shut off? It just simply takes too much juice at once to run the heating elements plus all of my other appliances. My small off grid cabin is run off of a 6000 watt split phase inverter and a decent sized battery bank, and 8000 watts of solar. I don't want to have to get another inverter in parallel just to supply that kind of juice. I personally don't use much water myself also being limited by how much water I have. going to install a cistern tank for rainwater /snowmelt catchment soon. well drillers are being a holes and ghosting me, plus they could never fit their rig in the middle of the woods. I only want to use the heat pump part in the warmer months, as I don't want the cold air discharge in the winter plus my shack gets chilly when the fire goes out and I'm at work. I was thinking of making a recirculation loop between my wood stove and water heater to heat water in the winter.
i was looking into this when i was worried my water heater needed to be changed, i currently have gas but with all this green energy stuff going on, i dont know when they're going to legislate fossil fuels away, and as a sparky im more than happy to fiddle with electric over gas. ideally all my heating will be heat pumps soon
Waiting for the 120v options to hit that market that rheem and ao smith have made. I don’t have 220 in my water closet and the panel is on the other side of a finished basement. What’s your take on the 120v options coming out soon?
I have a tankless water heater (that came with the builder) that is connected electronically and run on gas. Is it worth the upgrade for me? And BTW, because of the tankless - there is no space utilization in the garage as well. BTW, does these tank water heaters come with automatic circulation or atleast are they compatible? Because my tankless one doesn't have the circulation option and it sucks to waste lot of water everyday on cold days.
Expansion tank is necessary with any water heater unless there is no check valve at the water service entrance. It does not have to be on top of the water heater, just somewhere on your side of the incoming check valves. Water expands when it gets hot.
I did a dye replacement of 19+ year old high efficiency gas water heater with a rheem heat pump electric. I installed ducting with diverters to send the cool air outside in the Minnesota winter, and into the a/c plenum in the summer to help add to the house cooling. I ended up getting a lot of sweating on the outside of the ducts and water heater tank during humid weather, to the point where the leak detector activated and shut off the water. This is not the normal condense the system is designed to collect and route to the condensate pump. What do you think I can do to avoid future "leak alerts" due to tank sweating?
I live in south florida, electricity is relatively cheap and it's Super Hot and humid here. I learned just now about them, so , It appears it will be beneficial and it will also dehumidfy my garage? Seems like it is too good to be true. I get the upfront cost but if it saves tons of money and lets my garage less humid , I am going to lean this way.
Honestly it's worth it to replace even a functional electric water heater. My unit here used 478kw so far this year, about $55. It only cost around $1600, plus you get a 30% tax credit.
I called around and basic electric 50 gal tank is $1500 and included install. A plumber told me the ones with heat pumps are going for $4k … I am in Ft Lauderdale
can it be placed in a closet with louvered doors? could the cold air discharge be directed thru a (new) wall vent to the intake of an AC air handler on the other side of the wall? (Florida installation, AC is the primary load on the central air heat pump)
I asked a plumber about replacing my gas water heater when it blew up with a heat pump water heater and he told me that the gas water heater was more efficient than the heat pump I don't know if he understood my reasoning behind wanting to get the heat pump in my humid basement even after I explained it to him I'm guessing that he had not come across a heat pump water heater yet up here in Canada in the end time constraints ended up me getting a brand new high efficiency natural gas high efficiency put in But I was told about a heat pump option that can sit beside the hot water heater and Plumb into the system and I'm seriously considering going with that option now to help offset the use of natural gas inside the hot water heater
Anyone seen the new 120V versions installed? Should be an easier replacement for gas water heaters in TX where anything else needs a new 220V line and potentially panel in >15year old production built houses
I think the issue with the 120v system is that they don’t have the backup heating element so when the temperature drops it will take much longer to heat
So we'll have a heat pump in the water heater that radiates cold air into the room, plus we'll have a fridge that radiates hot air into the room. When will we be able to make these work together?
These might be more suitable in hotter climates, however if you have them in like Newyork for example. It would be doing your heating system a disservice during the wintertime. Your boiler, furnace, etc. would have to work extra hard to balance out that extra cool air. Is there a temperature control that lets you switch from heat pump to electric? or will it always run heat pump until the hot water is not keeping up with demand? I feel like further questioning is needed before I jump into a customer's house and ask 1-2k more over a regular electric water heater.
@@kenbrown2808 right I figured that. But having to do it manually? Would be brutal. I wonder if it’s like a dual heat system where when it gets to let’s say theoretically 36 temp it will use both heat pump and electric, and if it drops below that a few more degrees to let’s say 28… does it go full electric?
@@kenbrown2808 but granted more times than not. If that is in ur garage… you don’t want below freezing temps in there 😂 so those set points would have to be astronomically higher. More like 65 and then 60 depending on how warm u want that garage, basement, etc.
@@Prototype_TB I wouldn't know. we almost never see temperatures below 36 any more. only time I haven't had a hot shower was when I accidentally put it in vacation mode.
100-120 Volt will be marginally less efficient than 200-240. You'd save about 10% on your electric usage going 200-240. Most 50-65 gallon HPWH cost about $150/year ($148 shown here, Rheem is $149 for the 50-gallon model, etc.) but that's rated at 220V. So, you'd anticipate about $1-2 more/month on 110. You'd still save about $25/month over a 50 gallon unit. (With savings increasing as you get larger comparable tanks, i.e. saving about $40-45 with an 80 gallon unit.) [Prices given in regards to 12 cents/kWh which is the standard, if you have expensive electricity, multiply approximate costs/savings by your usage rate difference.]
If the anode isn't changed out after the notification is sent, will the water heater shut down? Also, I'm guessing the existing electrical whip will be too short in many cases and will have to be changed. No biggie.
Good luck finding service, or service options , as in im the only guy in town0-don’t like my hourly rate? Go fish ! Yes ten year warranty BUT ITS ONLY PARTS after the first year !
I live up in Canada and my water heater is in my bedroom closet. Does it make sense to install one if it’s going to cool my room down in the winter and I would in turn spend more in heating?
There is a space requirement for intake/outtake. I can't remember exactly but you can call the customer support to the manufacturer of whatever brand you get and they can tell you
Live in mi no one has them in garage and even though people over use ax here it’s not really needed for most of the year. Is there options for having separate condensers so I’m not cooling a conditioned space in heating?
Why is the UEF higher for all the "hybrid 30A resistive electric+heatpump" versions than the "120V plug-in heat pump only" versions? E.g. UEF 4.07 vs. 3.5 for the 80 gallon size. I currently have a gas water heater in my garage that I want to replace with one of these, and could easily run a new 30A circuit for the hybrid version. So if that's actually more efficient anyway, I'm thinking that may be the way to go, since also much faster recovery, and also don't have to worry about the extra tech for the mixing valve breaking. Any thoughts? thx
If you don’t duct them to the attic it will make whatever room it’s in very cold and sometimes can make negative pressure inside. It’s best in garages but we’ve installed them in laundry rooms and it’s ok. Just need to have the condensate run outside.
@@rj.parker agreed. They’re loud. Laundry room maybe if you strap it to a non connecting wall and don’t mind it freezing in there but ideally this is in a garage.
1) You have to have 208/240V installed if switching out from gas, 2) You need a condensate drip line to a drain or outdoors, 3) The heat pump can create resonance in your house while running (your house may hum a little - antivibration pads under water heater, where water heater touch the wall, and on mounting straps help), 4) don't forget to clean the intake filter every 6 months, 5) cost more that Gas or Electric (but should pay itself off, just do a ROI calculation using your local gas/electric rates and make sure you can make your money back before the warranty runs out), and 5) If the heat pump needs maintenance, a normal plumber may not know what to do... so now you have a product that may need to be maintained by HVAC technician or a Plumber depending on the problem.
The fact that it takes in Hot and blows out cold air is actually a deal breaker for me, too bad. 60 gallon electric water heater is installed in my finished basement in my utility room, last thing I need is for the basement to be colder. Thanks anyways.
I see everyone talking about installing these things in basements and garages what about someone who has a water heater that is hidden and completely sealed inside of a closet?
@@RogerWakefield yeah that seems to be the general consensus I actually just spent the morning going around to all of my local hardware stores namely Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware and a pattern I noticed that doesn't make sense why did none of the manufacturers think the vent these things like a normal water heater out through the top? Almost every single one that I looked at except one that pulled the air through the top and out the side and I found one that operates like a mini split the condenser and coil is installed outside like a normal mini-split AC system. I mean I get why they shouldn't be installed in the closet because they used the ambient air but I have no problem up to the fresh air intake for a gas water heater and venting the cooled exhaust outside the closet where I want to put mine is set up to where the fresh air intake pulls its air from inside through a wall register. House was converted from gas to electric when I went solar couple years ago. I don't have a problem ducting one but it would be much easier if they didn't pull their ambient air through the top plus like you living in the south in Arkansas heat pump water heater is perfect because temps around here rarely go below 40° in the coldest part of winter.
Heat pump water heaters cool your garage in summer time but what happens in winter time?....it also cools your garage so I don't see any advantage. It also it makes a lot of noise. In my opinion its not worth extra $$ even if in long term there are some savings. They are complicated and they break just like heat pumps. Much more sense is to dump heat from an A/C (after some modifications) into you water tank in summer time and use traditional heater during winter.
What I worry about is the electricity hook up being on the side....most times electricians barely leave enough to connect back into the top of the heater let alone dropping down another 1 1/2 to 2 feet down....
You just add a junction box if needed. In many cases it can be surface mounted for ease of installation. Then add wies using blue wire nuts or three two way Polaris connectors. But there should be a junction box in the wall already.
Does your jurisdiction require disconnect switch box next to the heater location? Change the whip (cleanest looking). Install a 2 gang splice box (to meet NEC 'fill' rules) and a whip (safe, but shows it was 'modified' from the original run) . To be honest, if you don't feel comfortable with doing this, you probably should avoid hooking power to any Electric models (most new construction I have worked, the electrician DOES follow up the plumber for things like this.
I’m a home inspector in the Seattle area. I’m seeing more and more hybrid heat pump water heaters.
The only negative I see is if they are installed in an interior room and not a garage. They are noisy and they discharge cold air into a room you may not wanted cooled down in the cold months.
I’ve been looking at new homes in the Seattle areas with these. There they are installed in the garage thankfully.
I can think of a lot more downsides than just what you mentioned
@@StefanSteinerWA Many of us do not have a garage but would like to take advantage of the technology.
I own a water heater company in Phoenix. I have the Rheem Proterra 50 in my own home. These are AMAZING for the southwest. Garages can easily get 130 degrees in the summer so the heat pump is about as efficient as they can be. I think my hybrid costs me about 60 dollar a year to use lol
What about in the winter or at night when it's cold in the desert and there isn't much heat in the surrounding area. Does it switch to the elements only?
@charlesking4843 half the year it's still hot at night. I think we had two+ months were it didn't get below 100 degrees.
And yes, you can still put into energy saver mode during the cold months.
@@dylancampbell8064 but you have to manually put it in elements heating mode? It doesn't do automatically?
@@charlesking678 no. It's still more efficient to use heat pump mode.
Keeping it in the garage will not impact the climate control of the home. Plenty of heat in the air even at 40 degrees.@@charlesking678
Just found out about these a couple of months ago when I was getting solar installed. The solar rep told me about them and even in iowa can work really well. So I did some research for myself just to make sure the guy was being honest. After all that it seemed like a good investment and got one last week to replace my gas water heater and I plan on installing it by months end.
Hi, which model did you go with? I am in Illinois and also considering the switch from a gas water heater. Thanks.
Do you have 230v line nearby or have to retrofit?
I have one and I love it. It's also in the same basement room as the second refrigerator, which gives it a constant heat source.
I’m a plumber in California. I’ve installed dozens of heat pump water heaters. They are the best option in my opinion. Hardly ever get calls back. I love the Bradford white and ao smith options with the water connections up top. Rheem is kind of a pain with their side exclusive connections. If a customer has solar and a big family they can save up to 100$ a month on energy bills. We’ve installed some for customers with Rebates making the install 2k. Without rebates it’s about a $7k job.
that is quite a ridiculous price tag considering it is basically a fridge with hot side radiator stuck into a water tank... 2k price might be reasonable, but 7k is just plain robbery
@@dsfs17987 how much do you think the unit costs?
@@dsfs17987 a regular tank is already 90% efficient combine with a micro flow shower, extra thermo blanket. set your gas to low or electricity to shut off for on peak hours.
@duke8489 $2200 to $3000.
For 7k I'll just take cold showers Duke.
So I own a plumbing company in Austin tx and your video here on these heat pump water heaters is very useful. I actually found out just a few hours ago from a client that these are out there. I guess the plumber in me says I need to know everything I can about it so I can better serve my community and leave our clients with enough info to make an informed decision if nothing else. I love to save my clients money and give them as much info on plumbing tech as possible in order to get ideas out there in the area. It serves our plumbing family well to do so. Thankyou for what you are doing and I will chime in time to time when I have something to offer or have questions.
Thanks. Ryan king
Owner of r.i.s.
I had one in my last home in Washington and it worked great. My new home in Dallas has an electric water heater and I'm planning on just swapping it out. It's a 2 year payback from the energy savings so it's really a no brainer.
I can’t wait to leave Wa…this place is trash
@@Shiddyvet I moved from Seattle to DFW Texas. Best decision of my life. Quality of life is great - conservative politicians have common sense about what matters most for daily life and have sound economic policies. Getting a hybrid water heater myself too since the garage is gets unpleasantly hot/humid during summer, worth the extra cost and electricity savings.
I have solar, so switched from gas to hybrid so that my solar generation can be used towards hot water generation too. My main complaint is I was not expecting the damn thing to make my house hum. The vibrations/resonance the compressor generates can transfer into your house's frame depending how the water heater is mounted/seated and strapped. I did the best I could be using rubber and flex hoses where possible so the vibrations to the copper piping is limited. I also used EVA Antivibration pads under the heater itself, where the heater would touches my walls, and underneath the water heater strapping. These mitigation efforts help, but some vibration/hum still makes it into the main house. I am used to it, and it no longer bugs me.
pex and longs of rubber pads on the pipe sports would help the vibration alot.
The had three installers either give me exorbitant bids for a hybrid or turn me down flat. I finally got a decent price from a plumber through my local Lowes. My experience falls right in with what you expressed in this video.
I just installed the AO Smith 50 gallon in my house. Did everything myself except the 220. I did a gas one years ago and decided to try this one myself after my plumber no showed 5 times after assuring me he wouldn't. Follow the instructions and it's pretty easily done. I have pex and used shark bites made specifically for water heater hook up. Works great so far. In Wisconsin so basement setup. No more dehumidifier saves even more money too!
@Tony Berger What about winter time? This thing is will cool your basement so no savings during winter. You need to heat your basement in order for the heat pump to heat your water. When it gets older it gets louder. Wait until it breaks down and all your savings will go down the drain. I hope it will work long time for you though.
@@vihayster one of our furnaces is close by and so far we've had some pretty cold weather 0F or better and it's still performing well. We'll know more when we finally move into the house and use it full time. If it ends up being experience to operate we will install solar to help off set the cost of electricity.
@@xtracycletonyhow’s it been so far?
@@nelven-et5lw we love it! Plenty of hot water and the basement smells great and is so dry
I'm also looking at an A.O. Smith 50 gal (in Pennsylvania). How did it perform in the winter? Is it noisy?
Only discovered these a couple weeks ago in the comments section in some random, unrelated discussion. Up until then, never knew they existed.
Roger, you're right - I did the install myself and it was easy. I even took advantage of the water being off to ditch some old shut-off valves and replace them with ball valves. I live in Maine in an old, uninsulated, double-wall brick farmhouse and it's worked great. Highly recommend converting to a heat pump water heater.
I love that!!!!
I've installed them in garages in Atlanta, GA. They worked well until it got cold. They produce dehumidified air which at 50 degrees can make a garage feel like a meat locker and frost the windshield on the cars. I know you can duct it into the hvac system, but I'm not an hvac tech, I'm a plumber. I'm not versed in sizing the ducts to make it work. I just wish that once the units detects a certain temperature, it would automatically switch from heat pump to elements seamlessly.
Is it good if I have a basement with humidity? Presently I'm using the humidifier. if I use a heat pump hot water unit. What will happen?
@@fixerbreaker8832 it will act as a dehumidifier.
@@fixerbreaker8832 I’ve never had or installed one, but am interested in getting one installed. From what I’ve read, the water heater will also dehumidify your basement. To what degree, and will it replace your dehumidifier? Not sure, maybe? Maybe not? but it will help out the dehumidifier for sure so you can run it less, maybe even not at all depending on how humid it is
I live in south florida so any extra Ac I get is a welcomed addition to my garage.
@@krisswolf2011 yes depending on how large your basement is it can replace the dehumidifier.
Be cautious about installing these in cold climate areas. The hybrid mode throws a lot of cold air. Great in the summer but not so much in the winter. Make sure you can isolate the room they are in or vent them outside. If not you will be running heat to counteract the cold air they throw off. We take ours out of hybrid mode in the dead of winter just for this reason. I didn’t realize this but we do not regret installing it.
Our house, like many in the Northeast, are built on a slab, so the hot water heater and furnace are on the same floor as living space. Even with a door to upstairs, the room on the slab gets cold in the summer, so we would definitely need to add electric resistant heaters to the room to make up for the heat loss by a heat pump hot water heater. Unless the unit is placed in unheated space that remains above freezing, I don't understand why one would purchase a heat pump hot water heater.
@@howard1431 We installed ours for three reasons. It was the least expensive and least intrusive. It had one of the lowest operating costs. In hybrid mode it only draws 500 watts so we can run it on our generator.
If we have to run it on electric mode only 4-6 months a year I’m still glad we bought it. For the other 4-6 months it cools and dehumidifies our downstairs level. I don’t see the need to add extra heating.
Just vent it to the outside in the winter duhh simple
Get the warranty. HD rep. strongly recommended I get the replacement plan, and I did. Replaced my Rheem unit in first five years. Still on second unit three years running and just had condensate list issue/alarm despite no clog. These hybrid units are getting better. I have 80 gallon unit--wonderful for 4-5 person house and cooling the garage. Get the big box additional warranty--chances are you will use it. Keeps my garage very cool and when temps get too cold you can temp. switch to all electric mode as needed. I do this only when it gets into the 20s which is rare in SC.
I have 65 gallon Rheem unit. Now on my 3rd unit in 4 years. Getting really tired of returning to Home Depot.
I purchased a Rheem 80 gallon hybrid in 2021. Its great- has different modes (heat pump only, high demand, electric only, Energy Saver and I think Vacation or something). I have been monitoring my energy since 2014. I can tell you without a doubt that the WATER HEATING portion of your electric bill will reduce about 65-75 percent. Some people misinterpret "save 60%) but not off of your entire bill- just the water heating portion. Now if your a single person or maybe a couple with no kids- It will take longer for you to recover your initial cost so it may not be worth it for you. In my case I have 3 little ones along with me and girlfriend and her 2 teen age daughters (you know they take LONG showers) and I have definitely saved on the water heating side
Sanden makes a more high end one that isn't necessarily gonna save you any money... but it is a split system, so the evaporator is outside, which could make a huge difference for marginal heating climates, where you don't want to be pulling heat and moisture from the conditioned envelope in heating season. Also seems like it might be good to combine heat pump water heaters with solar thermal water heaters (in series). One other nice thing you can do is set the tank temperature well above scalding, and then use a thermal mix valve inside or closer to the fixtures to make it safe; that way you have warmer water faster at fixtures, with no new recirc or branch volume reduction work.
Got 300 lts stainless steel 304 isolated with 5cm high density foam.
1) 4 SQM flat solar panels copper pipes with aluminum collector
2) air heat pump as back up with SP 46 degrees CELSIUS (114 farenheit)
My heat pumps is off almost the whole year except when I have visits, extra laundry or weather is terrible. BEST DESICION EVER!
I’ve been on the fence about replacing my old one with one. This video really helped me make my decision . Thank you.
Really? Before you do that, you had better check on the payback period of the additional cost. It’s going to take a long time to make the hybrid a better decision.
I’m a plumber and have installed hundreds, do it. You’ll be glad you did.
The thing I’m worried about is. DO NOT BUY ONE THAT HOLDS THE SAME AMOUNT YOUR CURRENT UNIT HOLDS!! If you have a 30 gallon then get a 50 gallon. Unless you live by yourself. These things don’t heat up the water fast enough for constant usage.
@@jamescordes8673 upsize is ideal and always install a mixing valve or a tank booster and you won’t notice a decrease
@@Archdukecollins ya. I know. Which is why I’m annoyed at this video. They mention none of these things. Even worse. They give an example of taking out a 50 gal and putting in a 50 gal
I have one for 11 years now in my garage. Keep in mind that they make noise and create cool air.If they are installed in a living space they will take heat out of that same living space. This is a great water heater with a 400 percent energy advantage but they will not work in every household. If you duct the cool air outside you will create a negative pressure in the home. Again not for every home situation but a great product if you have the right environment for installation.
what brand of heat pump water heater do you have?
Clearance Space: Access to air allows heat pump water heaters to operate at peak performance. Most models need about 750 to 1000 cubic feet of air, which is about the size of a 10 ft x 10 ft room. If your water heater is tucked away in a tight closet, a simple louvered door or jumper duct will do the trick.
I have had one of these for just about 10 years now a GE Geo Spring, I can't compare the cost savings as I had a propane hot water heater before and I was remodeling and updating all systems and compared this to similarly sized propane heaters and the energy star rating was lower on the hybrid and a coworker had the same one so I got it and a 10 year warranty. It hasn't missed a beat and I even lost track on how old it was and have not done much to it other than clean the filter here and there.
I live in the New England and it's installed in my basement and not had any ill effects of it being install in a colder climate, but my basement only gets to about 50 degrees in the winter. Once it starts giving me problems I have see no problem replacing it with another other than the price has gone up a lot since I picked mine up.
I purchased a similar GE GeoSpring Heat Pump water heater back in 2016 and it started throwing fault codes 6 months after the extended 5 yr service warranty ended. Bradford now covers these as GE no longer sells this type of heat pump water heater. I just replaced the fan and Bradford sent the part for free (10 years parts) but, again labor is NOT included. Literally 1 month later it throws a FF code and stops working again. Now it looks more serious and unfortunately nobody works on them. My HVAC guy sniffed it looking for a leak, but couldn't find it and he said the evaporator coil looked very rusty (this is located in a clean conditioned space) and said unfortunately they don't work on water heaters. I called over a dozen hot water heaters service companies and plumbers in around Atlanta and no luck and Bradford doesn't have a support/ service list. So looks like this is now going to be a standard electric heater until that stops working. Highly recommend not buying one of these heat pump water heaters and just buy a Rheem Marathon.
Live in Florida, would love to have one. Cheaper to run and it would help dehumidify my garage.
Got a 32yr old gas tank water heater, that has basically run with zero maint, no changing anodes, no flushing... still running....I seriously doubt anything made today will perform like that older model....just hoping I can get an exact duplicate of what I have with no electronics and just a mechanical that basically is set it and forget it.
Your inuition is correct, and the equivalent new model probably wont last as long as your old one
I will be getting a hybrid water heater in My Ohio home, and I am not going to wait until my gas heater fails to do it. Thanks.
Our AO hybrid is near 10 years in age been perfect.
Selling is important. I sold myself on this with research. Rheem Hybrid 50 in FL garage, ideal! Low energy use, cool air discharge and humidity control. There use to be a AC heat pump with water heating, but haven't seen in a while. Gonna try heat pump clothes dryer next. My income isn't such to get govt credit, so would be nice if it went to vendor
Great content, your educational efforts and details have helped me make an informed decision. Getting quotes for the Hybrid now.
Glad to help!
If the gen 4 rheem heat pump water heater were still available I'd likely get one now, but of the locally available heat pumps it seems that the gen 5 rheems are almost universally noisy, and others have numerous complaints about condenser failure within a few years. I don't have a garage, just a dirt crawlspace that can be dug out a little for a taller tank if needed then I would replace the vapor barrier.
My current electric water heater is 25 years old and I love that I can go to any hardware store and get replacement heating elements and thermostats for $20-40. It's silent and never runs out of hot water. With a powered anode rod it can last almost indefinitely. I want to install a heat pump water heater to decrease energy use but if there is a fair chance that I will hear it throughout the house or it will need to be replaced, even under warranty, in the next 5 to 10 years I don't see how that saves anything.
Hi Roger.
I am lucky enough to work at Ferguson, and yet, I did not understand the benefits of a hybrid water heater till I watched your video... As you said, it's all about learning.
We are building our first home this year and are now seriously looking at going hybrid. We were originally thinking of both a larger and smaller water heater (larger for kitchen, laundry, outside kitchen, and guest rooms and smaller for master suite). Do you think that's necessary with a larger hybrid unit?
Thank you again for the great info.
Louie
Personally, I think it matters where you live and if the heat pump hot water heater can be located in unheated space where it doesn't freeze. We have high efficiency tanless hot water heater that costs very little to run and can provide endless hot water (if needed)
Believe it or not we had one installed in our new house in 1987. It drew air from the outside and had a supplemental space heater. It lasted 20 years. The brand was Dairy
Equipment Corporation.
Yes I installed one I’m in Atlanta, ga I love mine.
what brand and how long have you had it for?
Hey Roger! Love seeing the Ferguson partnership! (20 year vet of that great organization). I'm in the planning process to replace the original 50 gallon LP power vent water heater that came with my home. I was convinced I wanted to go tankless, but these hybrid heat pump heaters have me intrigued. Where do you think I'd see more significant energy savings? 1) going to tankless where I'm heating on-demand 2) Hybrid heat pump?
Depends on your current set up, water needs, and space available. The heat pumps do take up a bigger space and make more noise than a tankless...if that's a non-factor for you then maybe a heat pump is the way to go. Personally in my home and my set up, a tankless would make more sense...hope this helps
My experience has been less than stellar. I’ve had two hybrid water heaters fail within 3 years, and now the second replacement is failing. The first one started throwing an ECC error on the display. After working State tech support and doing some troubleshooting, they authorized a replacement. The replacement was a newer model, so I had hopes it would be better. Nope! The new one started leaking after about 6 months. State authorized another replacement. Now the latest one is failing. It’s not keeping up with demand. After 3 minutes in the shower, the water starts cooling off. I noticed that the heat pump unit is constantly running. If I put it into electric mode, it works fine. I want to find a way to change the default to electric so it won’t kick back over to hybrid. I found instructions to do this for the older 3-button model, but not for the newer model like I have. I live in NC, so not a cold environment, and the water heater is installed in the garage. If I can’t find a way to set it into permanent electric mode, I’m going to have it replaced with a brand I’ve actually heard of, like Rheem or GE. And not a hybrid/heat pump water heater. Any savings I may have realized by using a heat pump water heater have been wiped out in labor costs. I’m done with them.
What about cold weather climates? Here in Washington they are all but required to get your energy credits in new construction. What about when installed in a interior room, say a closest, if the cold air isn't vented, during the cold weather months you are putting cold air right into the space you are trying to heat. How do you reconcile those issues?
I've seen apartments that do this exact thing, placing these in spaces where only a traditional heater should go. I can see the value for southern states but here up north, I don't think the builders think some of these issues through.
This man really gives me Kenny Rodgers vibes 😂 I love it!
Makes perfect sense! Thanks for the description!
You bet!
Haven't installed one yet! Getting more educated on these before going all in
thats a great way of doing it. Who else are you watching to get more educated?
I follow some plumbers on youtube, tiktok and Instagram and can sometimes pick up some good stuff through them but I mainly do research on my own to find out more and ask questions to my manager when I get stuck. Surprisingly, I've been plumbing for 8 years and still haven't done one!
You know I don’t have much experience with them myself, we don’t see many up here in North Texas
@@RogerWakefield Well with the possibility of new legislation on the horizon, they may become the new norm and we might not have much choice but to adapt and evolve. I hope to follow in your footsteps to help teach and lead the next generation of plumbers in this world 💪
@@RogerWakefield Keep up the great videos!
I have two water heaters in my garage. A 50 gallon electric water heater feeds into a 40 gallon electric water heater, which has a recirculating pump on it. I am considering a hybrid water heater. I do not think a hybrid water heater would be efficient in a recirculating mode. I placed a remote control switch on the recirculating pump so it is not recirculating water 24/7. When we need hot water, I use the remote controls placed in specific locations throughout the house to turn on the recirculating pump, which stays on for two hours then automatically shuts off. The concrete foundation was acting like a heat sink and causing the 40 gallon hot water tank heating elements to turn on too often. By adding that remote, I reduced the electric used on that hot water heater by 80 percent.
I am wondering if the 50 gallon water heater feeding into the forty gallon unit would be a good candidate for a hybrid water heater. I don’t care if it cools my four-car garage, but I do not have a drain in that area.
if the 50 is feeding into the 40 then in theory the 40 should hardly every turn on . even with recirc pump. I have an 80 gallon Hybrid feeding into 50 gallon traditional electric and an on demand recirc pump as well and my 2nd water heater almost NEVER comes on. Only in super high demand situations like when we have family over for the weekend (usually like 15 extra people) then when everyone is showering - the 2nd tank occasionally has to turn on. other than that- it doesnt run at all 99 percent of the time. My recirc line and all supply lines are in my attic. If yours are in your foundation-that may be the cause of it running so much
sorry i just saw that your recirc is going into the 40 gallon. you should run it to the 50 gallon as it has more volume of water and when a "little bit" goes in- it wont turn on as often but YES the hybrid would ALWAYS use less than the regular electric- recirc or not it will use around 350 watts instead of 4500 watts. It will run longer but it will use less electricity
@@homersalazar8479 , that is true if the 50 gallon water heater is heating the water to 130 degrees. I set my 50 at 100 degrees. Only the forty gallon is set at 130 degrees. In the summer, the 50 gallon hardly runs, because the temperature in my garage is above 90 degrees.
@@jacklabloom635 gotcha
Ok either way I assure you the hybrid will use less energy any day over a traditional element water heater
Ducted to draw hot air from the attic in Hawaii and blow cool air into bedrooms; works amazing! I’d estimate it cost no more than $50/month for family of 3 with highest electric rates in country.
Sounds great! How long have you had yours?
Not sure if it's right for me. I live in a small condo. My hot water heater, now 20 years old and still running fine, is in a closet with my gas furnace, washer and dryer. So this would cool my place in the winter causing the furnace to run more, and be loud?
i have a gas water heater and was considering a heat pump version, would this still be more efficient or should i stick with gas?
Looked around for plumbers to install one in Houston and had to talk to 4 to find one that would even try installing one.
What was their reasoning for not wanting to install it?
@@RogerWakefield Most had never done it before so it was just a lack of experience. The one that was willing to try was worried about not enough air circulation in my attic (1000 sq ft attic). I went tankless and will give a try next time. I assume everyone will have their practice in by then and feel confident about the install.
Yes and that was an important topic for this video...experience...more plumbers need to be aware and knowledgeable of them so they won't have to turn a customer away from a product that they want.
The Jay and Silent Bob of plumbers
Silent bob: Yes Sir
he's the sales rep, so he's a yes man
Have a 12 year old 80 gallon electric water heater that there is a HVAC cold air return above the existing water heater. Would if not offer some benefit if a duct was added to the hold air return if I moved to a Hybrid Water Heaters? Opening the duct during the summer to draw in the cool air the Hybrid Water Heater is creating into the HVAC? Maryland
I am indifferent. Seems like they would be great in some situations not in others. The issue I have had with them is the size.
The only negative if it's installed in a livable basement, it will cool it down during the winter. It is an extra cost to vent outside might be a great option. Still huge savings and great way during the summer to cool down a space and remove extra humidity plus save 💰💰💰🤑..
Great point! Do you have one installed? What part of the country are you in?
So I have not installed one but when my normal one goes out id like to. I have a question though, My washing machine is right next to my water heater. Can I install a fitting to take the condensate line out with the washer drain or is that not a good idea? Or just shove the line next to the drain of the washer in the drain pipe?
No reason you couldn't.
I am in Florida. I just purchased a 65 gallon Rheem Hybrid. Already 3 installers declined to install it (I realized they don't know anything about Hybrid water heaters). They are almost laughed on me to pay 3 times more than a regular electric water heater. One plumber(sales) gave me a $1700 estimate and I got a Rheem estimate to, $2200!!!!
I purchased with a chunk of discount and counting some tax credit/rebate, but hard to find a decent plumber with an affordable installation cost. I am almost ready to take it back and buy something else.
it is no different to set up than plain electric heater, the only added "connection" is the condensation drain tube, nothing else is any different than any other sort of water heater, and certainly easier to do than natural gas, since you don't have to deal with gas supply piping, those plumber prices are quite absurd
@@dsfs17987 I know how it works, I watched many many videos. That doesn't help me to find a decent plumber. I got 2 more estimates. $1300 and $1400 :( .
I didn't want to do by myself, because needed to move the water lines behind the wall. I am OK with SharkBites, but not behind walls. Soldering wasn't an option for me.
Finally, I gave up on the uneducated plumbers and I installed it myself. It looks good, works well. I paid less than $300 for the parts and tools and the wall repair.
too cheap labor, usual price in Cali is $4K to $5k for labor. rediculous
Can one of these heat pump water heaters be used as a dedicated radiant heat system? Im thinking for a small house about 1000-1200 sq ft? I think this technology is amazing but I’m not sure it would work for a radiant application. Any info on this would be awesome. Thanks !
I love mine. yes, the side connections were annoying, but with the power company rebate, it cost me $50.00 delivered to my garage floor. the condensate waters my roses. only issues with them is if they;re in too small a room, they refrigerate the room, and they do produce condensate, so if you don't have a drain or an exterior wall, you have to find a way to get it out.
Condensate is acidic. It’ll probably eat those flowers alive over time
@@youngrav2311 natural gas condensate is acidic. heat pump condensate is whatever is in the air, so unless your air is acidic, the condensate is not.
What rebate was that? I'm not aware of such a high rebate and I'm currently shopping for water tank replacements!
How will this do in NYC? I am considering for one of my properties to try out...Thank you!
I just installed one and begged the customer to aware. It will use electricity to run pump and compressor also the heating elements. It is great if you are in a climate that is right for the unit. Time will tell
She wanted it because others have them... the cost is astronomical, not for the common person
General rules ot thumb for heat pumps i use, a heat pump is twice as efficient (dollar wise) as a natural gas heat system, 3 times as efficient as a propane system, and 4 times as efficient as a electric system.
If you would pay $100 for electric
You would pay $75 for propane
$50 for gas
And $25 for heat pump
Good only in the south or warm weather areas. Up north they will freeze you out because they expel all that cold air. It’s like having an air conditioner running and you don’t want that in the cold winter months.
Roger I love your videos. I found this video very informative. Thanks Roger for everything you do.
You are very welcome
You are my brother who understands what he is talking about.
Is natural gas water heaters still more efficient and cost effective than the heat pump water heater?
Usually. But not if the water heater is on propane which can be more expensive than straight electric. So a heat pump water heater is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost to operate than straight electric or propane.
Heat Pump is more efficient scientifically. It takes less "energy" to move the heat in the air to the water in the tank than it does to burn a fuel and convert it to heat. The question I think you are asking is: "is it cheaper to run a (hybrid) heat pump vs Gas?". This depends on your local electric and gas rates. If you have solar, you can basically get free hot water if your system is sized correctly.
It's worth it to convert from gas to heatpump. No brainer for properties that already had an electric water heater.
Roger, I live in Fort Worth and I’m very interested in upgrading my water heater once the rebate scheme is in place. Can you recommend a plumber/company to get an instal quote?
In cold climates with uninsulated garages can you still put it there?
One crazy thing I’ve seen as a service plumber was a homeowner, trying to clear the clog in their toilet by plunging the reservoir
Ferguson should stock them at their local stores if they're so great
Most units I can find are hybrid models. can the resistive heating element mode be shut off? It just simply takes too much juice at once to run the heating elements plus all of my other appliances. My small off grid cabin is run off of a 6000 watt split phase inverter and a decent sized battery bank, and 8000 watts of solar. I don't want to have to get another inverter in parallel just to supply that kind of juice. I personally don't use much water myself also being limited by how much water I have. going to install a cistern tank for rainwater /snowmelt catchment soon. well drillers are being a holes and ghosting me, plus they could never fit their rig in the middle of the woods. I only want to use the heat pump part in the warmer months, as I don't want the cold air discharge in the winter plus my shack gets chilly when the fire goes out and I'm at work. I was thinking of making a recirculation loop between my wood stove and water heater to heat water in the winter.
Home owner and facility maintenance for school district and didn't know we could get them I had heard of them but never seen one it's nice to know 🤯
i was looking into this when i was worried my water heater needed to be changed, i currently have gas but with all this green energy stuff going on, i dont know when they're going to legislate fossil fuels away, and as a sparky im more than happy to fiddle with electric over gas. ideally all my heating will be heat pumps soon
Waiting for the 120v options to hit that market that rheem and ao smith have made. I don’t have 220 in my water closet and the panel is on the other side of a finished basement. What’s your take on the 120v options coming out soon?
I have a tankless water heater (that came with the builder) that is connected electronically and run on gas.
Is it worth the upgrade for me? And BTW, because of the tankless - there is no space utilization in the garage as well.
BTW, does these tank water heaters come with automatic circulation or atleast are they compatible? Because my tankless one doesn't have the circulation option and it sucks to waste lot of water everyday on cold days.
Can a "bladder" be installed on this? I have to have a bladder on the top of my traditional water tank because of the pressure reducing valve.
If your referring to an expansion tank, yes you can. It’s the same concept as a standard water heater.
Expansion tank is necessary with any water heater unless there is no check valve at the water service entrance. It does not have to be on top of the water heater, just somewhere on your side of the incoming check valves. Water expands when it gets hot.
@@waylenyuhas1012 Thank you!
@@rj.parker Good to know thank you!
what is the cost of this compared to gas? how long do they last do they warranty the heat pump not to fail for whole life of water heater?
I did a dye replacement of 19+ year old high efficiency gas water heater with a rheem heat pump electric. I installed ducting with diverters to send the cool air outside in the Minnesota winter, and into the a/c plenum in the summer to help add to the house cooling. I ended up getting a lot of sweating on the outside of the ducts and water heater tank during humid weather, to the point where the leak detector activated and shut off the water. This is not the normal condense the system is designed to collect and route to the condensate pump. What do you think I can do to avoid future "leak alerts" due to tank sweating?
Did you figure out a solution?
I live in south florida, electricity is relatively cheap and it's Super Hot and humid here. I learned just now about them, so , It appears it will be beneficial and it will also dehumidfy my garage? Seems like it is too good to be true.
I get the upfront cost but if it saves tons of money and lets my garage less humid , I am going to lean this way.
Honestly it's worth it to replace even a functional electric water heater. My unit here used 478kw so far this year, about $55. It only cost around $1600, plus you get a 30% tax credit.
I called around and basic electric 50 gal tank is $1500 and included install. A plumber told me the ones with heat pumps are going for $4k … I am in Ft Lauderdale
can it be placed in a closet with louvered doors? could the cold air discharge be directed thru a (new) wall vent to the intake of an AC air handler on the other side of the wall? (Florida installation, AC is the primary load on the central air heat pump)
I asked a plumber about replacing my gas water heater when it blew up with a heat pump water heater and he told me that the gas water heater was more efficient than the heat pump I don't know if he understood my reasoning behind wanting to get the heat pump in my humid basement even after I explained it to him I'm guessing that he had not come across a heat pump water heater yet up here in Canada in the end time constraints ended up me getting a brand new high efficiency natural gas high efficiency put in
But I was told about a heat pump option that can sit beside the hot water heater and Plumb into the system and I'm seriously considering going with that option now to help offset the use of natural gas inside the hot water heater
Anyone seen the new 120V versions installed? Should be an easier replacement for gas water heaters in TX where anything else needs a new 220V line and potentially panel in >15year old production built houses
I think the issue with the 120v system is that they don’t have the backup heating element so when the temperature drops it will take much longer to heat
So we'll have a heat pump in the water heater that radiates cold air into the room, plus we'll have a fridge that radiates hot air into the room. When will we be able to make these work together?
Is the tank lined or will it just rust out like all the other cheapy water heaters on the market these days?
These might be more suitable in hotter climates, however if you have them in like Newyork for example. It would be doing your heating system a disservice during the wintertime. Your boiler, furnace, etc. would have to work extra hard to balance out that extra cool air. Is there a temperature control that lets you switch from heat pump to electric? or will it always run heat pump until the hot water is not keeping up with demand? I feel like further questioning is needed before I jump into a customer's house and ask 1-2k more over a regular electric water heater.
I know mine can switch modes from the control panel.
@@kenbrown2808 right I figured that. But having to do it manually? Would be brutal. I wonder if it’s like a dual heat system where when it gets to let’s say theoretically 36 temp it will use both heat pump and electric, and if it drops below that a few more degrees to let’s say 28… does it go full electric?
@@kenbrown2808 but granted more times than not. If that is in ur garage… you don’t want below freezing temps in there 😂 so those set points would have to be astronomically higher. More like 65 and then 60 depending on how warm u want that garage, basement, etc.
@@Prototype_TB I wouldn't know. we almost never see temperatures below 36 any more. only time I haven't had a hot shower was when I accidentally put it in vacation mode.
My rheem has the option to go full electric and i can switch it right on my phone
Hello. Any disadvantages of a 240volt to 110volt hybrid water heater? Coz not every garage have a 240 volts availability
100-120 Volt will be marginally less efficient than 200-240.
You'd save about 10% on your electric usage going 200-240.
Most 50-65 gallon HPWH cost about $150/year ($148 shown here, Rheem is $149 for the 50-gallon model, etc.) but that's rated at 220V.
So, you'd anticipate about $1-2 more/month on 110.
You'd still save about $25/month over a 50 gallon unit. (With savings increasing as you get larger comparable tanks, i.e. saving about $40-45 with an 80 gallon unit.)
[Prices given in regards to 12 cents/kWh which is the standard, if you have expensive electricity, multiply approximate costs/savings by your usage rate difference.]
id love some advice on hybrid vs smart water heaters, im just looking to save money.
If the anode isn't changed out after the notification is sent, will the water heater shut down?
Also, I'm guessing the existing electrical whip will be too short in many cases and will have to be changed. No biggie.
We have a gas water heater in Colorado Springs, Colorado. What about replacing a gas one. You only spoke about electric water heater comparisons.
Good luck finding service, or service options , as in im the only guy in town0-don’t like my hourly rate? Go fish ! Yes ten year warranty BUT ITS ONLY PARTS after the first year !
Roger can I pre-schedule you to come fix my plumbing after tomorrows deep freeze.
Bring someone small... crawl space is tight. lol
I live up in Canada and my water heater is in my bedroom closet. Does it make sense to install one if it’s going to cool my room down in the winter and I would in turn spend more in heating?
There is a space requirement for intake/outtake. I can't remember exactly but you can call the customer support to the manufacturer of whatever brand you get and they can tell you
I’m not sure I would want it cooling my bedroom down in the winter at all. It also may be a little too loud for the bedroom…
Live in mi no one has them in garage and even though people over use ax here it’s not really needed for most of the year. Is there options for having separate condensers so I’m not cooling a conditioned space in heating?
Why is the UEF higher for all the "hybrid 30A resistive electric+heatpump" versions than the "120V plug-in heat pump only" versions? E.g. UEF 4.07 vs. 3.5 for the 80 gallon size. I currently have a gas water heater in my garage that I want to replace with one of these, and could easily run a new 30A circuit for the hybrid version. So if that's actually more efficient anyway, I'm thinking that may be the way to go, since also much faster recovery, and also don't have to worry about the extra tech for the mixing valve breaking. Any thoughts? thx
Can I vent to cool air out the dryer vent pipe?
So is there cons, to installing them in the house?
If you don’t duct them to the attic it will make whatever room it’s in very cold and sometimes can make negative pressure inside. It’s best in garages but we’ve installed them in laundry rooms and it’s ok. Just need to have the condensate run outside.
They make noise so don 't install them inside the house and certainly not in a closet.
@@rj.parker agreed. They’re loud. Laundry room maybe if you strap it to a non connecting wall and don’t mind it freezing in there but ideally this is in a garage.
1) You have to have 208/240V installed if switching out from gas, 2) You need a condensate drip line to a drain or outdoors, 3) The heat pump can create resonance in your house while running (your house may hum a little - antivibration pads under water heater, where water heater touch the wall, and on mounting straps help), 4) don't forget to clean the intake filter every 6 months, 5) cost more that Gas or Electric (but should pay itself off, just do a ROI calculation using your local gas/electric rates and make sure you can make your money back before the warranty runs out), and 5) If the heat pump needs maintenance, a normal plumber may not know what to do... so now you have a product that may need to be maintained by HVAC technician or a Plumber depending on the problem.
The fact that it takes in Hot and blows out cold air is actually a deal breaker for me, too bad. 60 gallon electric water heater is installed in my finished basement in my utility room, last thing I need is for the basement to be colder. Thanks anyways.
We got ours because of a rebate for California. No regrets. Uses very little energy.
I think you could explain a little better that if you use the elements you're not going to have the same saving as just using the heat pump.
I see everyone talking about installing these things in basements and garages what about someone who has a water heater that is hidden and completely sealed inside of a closet?
I wouldn't recommend putting it in a closet
@@RogerWakefield yeah that seems to be the general consensus I actually just spent the morning going around to all of my local hardware stores namely Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware and a pattern I noticed that doesn't make sense why did none of the manufacturers think the vent these things like a normal water heater out through the top? Almost every single one that I looked at except one that pulled the air through the top and out the side and I found one that operates like a mini split the condenser and coil is installed outside like a normal mini-split AC system. I mean I get why they shouldn't be installed in the closet because they used the ambient air but I have no problem up to the fresh air intake for a gas water heater and venting the cooled exhaust outside the closet where I want to put mine is set up to where the fresh air intake pulls its air from inside through a wall register. House was converted from gas to electric when I went solar couple years ago. I don't have a problem ducting one but it would be much easier if they didn't pull their ambient air through the top plus like you living in the south in Arkansas heat pump water heater is perfect because temps around here rarely go below 40° in the coldest part of winter.
Someone needs to make one that exchanges the cold air into a cold plunge tank.
If you are replacing an existing electric unit however it will not replace an efficient gas unit.
What rebates we can get in the state of Texas?
Heat pump water heaters cool your garage in summer time but what happens in winter time?....it also cools your garage so I don't see any advantage. It also it makes a lot of noise. In my opinion its not worth extra $$ even if in long term there are some savings. They are complicated and they break just like heat pumps. Much more sense is to dump heat from an A/C (after some modifications) into you water tank in summer time and use traditional heater during winter.
What do you think about the water heater in the video vs the Bradford White heat pump water heater?
I prefer Bradford white
What I worry about is the electricity hook up being on the side....most times electricians barely leave enough to connect back into the top of the heater let alone dropping down another 1 1/2 to 2 feet down....
Ask your plumber for a Bradford white if that’s your concern. Bradford white has top connections. Rheem does too but Bradford is better in my opinion.
You just add a junction box if needed. In many cases it can be surface mounted for ease of installation. Then add wies using blue wire nuts or
three two way Polaris connectors. But there should be a junction box in the wall already.
Does your jurisdiction require disconnect switch box next to the heater location? Change the whip (cleanest looking). Install a 2 gang splice box (to meet NEC 'fill' rules) and a whip (safe, but shows it was 'modified' from the original run) . To be honest, if you don't feel comfortable with doing this, you probably should avoid hooking power to any Electric models (most new construction I have worked, the electrician DOES follow up the plumber for things like this.
adding a junction box in the ceiling and 5 foot leg down to the unit is easy and practically free when considering the total cost.
If your heater is inside the house these really cool the room they are in in the winter. Not ideal.