In central Florida, cost me $86 to run in the entire 2020. The old unit cost me nearly $400 the previous year. Not only did I save a significant amount to heat water, I also increased the capacity from 50 gallons to 80 gallons. It was a win for me... (self installed too)
@@janfier The Econet app has graphs and usage reports for days, weeks, months and year. Times the amount by the prevailing usage rate. If your rate changes throughout the day, you probably won't get a good read unless you program it to only run during the cheapest usage times.
I initially had the same problem you had with the cold basement. The fixed that problem by venting the exhaust air outside, which hugely fixed the cold basement problem. During the summertime, i disconnect the vent so the cold air vent into the basement to help dehumidify the air. Here in MA, they offer a $600 rebate for my specific unit. My initial cost was $1200 and after the rebate, the unit only cost me $600 which is about the same as a regular electric water heater. I also run my unit on a scheduler also, which greatly increased my savings.
I'm glad that worked out for you ! Thanks for watching, thanks for the idea ! I was planning on venting outside but for my situation I don't believe that's gonna work. Appreciate the comment ! Video on venting in case interested- ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Thanks Mike
I bought this water heater ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
I installed one of these in a friend's house down in Iowa, he loves it!! Keeps the humidity in his unfinished basement down so no need for a dedicated dehumidifier.
Appreciate your video explanation very good and learning to use it correctly. I instruct students and contractors in HVAC. You only need to vent the cold air outside to solve the problem, and you are definitely able to do it . For some of my customers I vent into a foam instalation walk in for wine , vegetables , fruit ,etc. year round. Finally these units can be installed on the first or second floor near shower area ( laundry room in my second floor) for master bath and common bath. Again great job!!!!
My suggestion is duct the cool air outside if you don’t want it inside. Really simple to duct it. You can also put a two way damper in your duct work to use the cool air in summer and open the damper to the outside vent side in the winter when you don’t want the cool air.
Jack, thanks for the comment and the idea. Your suggestion makes sense, for my specific case I decided against doing that. Here's a video on venting this unit ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment ! Mike
if it is cold outside then you just send cold air outside to have cold air sucked into house to replace that air seems these would only make sense in hot climates.
@@ranger178 You should have two vents, sucking air from outside and blowing the colder air back inside plus not tax the heating system by cooling inside air. This would equalize pressure and not cause extra air exchange with the outside. In the summer, vent to inside to acts as extra free air conditioning. But frankly these units sve so much electricity, it is probably not worth the bother, And if installed in the basement, the extra dehumidification year round would help prevent mold and mildew.
An instant rebate from Central Hudson made the price $678 in Nov 2019 at Home Depot for this item. Installation cost $588 (which also included removing the existing water heater and condensate pump) for a total cost of $1266. Lives in the unfinished part of the basement with an oil furnace so cooling is a non-issue. Set to 125 degrees in energy saving mode and have never run out of hot water! Electric savings will pay total price in 2021.
I installed one of these a few years back myself. Unfortunately, it didn't come with an app. There was a wifi module that was several hundred dollars extra, and still no app with that, it basically just allowed a water detection alarm during a leak. Glad to hear they fixed that. Because the high efficiency mode is useless without being able to manually schedule the temperature. Like you, the water was always luke warm. It works great in high demand mode though which ironically was the customer support recommendation, just run it in high demand she said. We are in Texas, and what some people do is put a duct on the output of the unit that splits off to outdoors and indoors, and you baffle off indoors during winter and outdoors during summer.
Hello Mike, I installed my Hybrid back in Nov 2022. My W/H died after a hurricane in SWFL. Your video is what convinced me to purchase the 50gal model and self installed in my garage, so a Big Thanks. We get a lot of sediment in our water so i went a step further and installed a filter before the water enters the tank to cut down on having to flush the tank. It is now May 2024 and I drained and flushed tank for the first time and found no sediment coming out of the bottom out of the tank. I definitely noticed a savings. I havent had any performance issues. I used the app to schedule for our needs and used the OnDemand feature in the morning for 1-2 hours. Only issue Ive come across is occasionally drops off the wifi but reconnects on its own. My next step is to see how the anode rode is holding up. I plan to switch to a powered Anode rod which supposedly will out last the water heater.
Nice video a little long. Heres a few ideas. 1) Create ducting to move less dense air (warmer air closer to the ceiling) down into the intake (top of your HWH). 2) Exhaust cooler air coming out of the side through an insulated pipe venting to the outside. Check angle to make sure air that might be condensing is running toward the exit not toward the HWH. 3) During spring and summer you can basically reverse this giving you free A/C. I live in Texas and I pull from the hot attic and vent into the house. In the winter the air is vented into the garage. I keep water at 130 and it never runs out and have knocked a solid 12-18% off my electric bill a month.
I installed my Rheem in the garage here in Portland, Oregon. In the Summer I leave the garage door open to my house so we get the benefits of the cool air and in the Winter the door is left closed and the garage remains chilly for the cold food I store in there (root vegetables and fruit). I leave the temperature at 120 for best savings since I have the larger capacity model and we never run out of hot water.
Great information, though I’ve seen higher cost savings in other videos, your analysis seems very right. As far as the cooling issue, I saw one case where one installer installed a two way output vent. One way it vent the output to the outdoors during the winter months, then indoors during the heat of the warmer summer months. Seemed like a ideal resolution to me.
Brian, I had the same plan but changed that after some research, I suggest before you go through the trouble of venting your unit you watch this. ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Thanks again for watching, Mike
I purchased the 80 Gal model about two years ago. Its my wife and I, I oversized on purpose since a heat pump is much slower recovery. I am in the south so we love it. If your in a cold climate, I would not recommend. In full heat pump mode, I measured 1.7 Amps of load on 220v. That is crazy low. I have a walk out basement with a small garage integrated where the water heater is located. When I built the house I put 8" vent thru the wall for winter use. If used in the correct climate and installed with options to vent, its free air conditioner to the basement in the summer. Noise level is 2 or 3 times a refrigerator. Would not want it near any sitting area, kitchen etc. It runs for hours and hours. But it is just sipping electric. The noise is not a problem for us.
One thing that I did not see you account for: In summer you're paying to cool your house down. If you can duct the cold exhaust into the living area, every BTU of cooling you dump there, is a BTU you don't have to pay for, so you can view it as paying for the same cooling you would anyways, and getting free hot water as a byproduct, or you can view it as paying for hot water and getting free cooling, in any case you save twice, once because heating water with a heat pump is 4 times cheaper that resistive electricity and 2 because you get cold/dry air. Additionally I personally needed to run a dehumidifier during winter but because this does the same job now I don't have to, so again I'm getting double savings in winter as well.
I live in Texas where I have a gas heater. It's 10 years old seems to be asking for replacement (it's rated at just under $300 per year in fuel). The gas tank vents above into the attic out the roof. Instead, I could vent the hybrid up the attic into the room upstairs a foot away. (Insulate the vent). If it could give a couple degrees of relief to the single upstairs bonus room, that'd be awesome. Seems as if a series of input dampers (input air from the garage or the above attic) and output dampers (into the house, into the garage, out the roof) would be amazing.
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > ua-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/v-deo.html Video on the Eco Net App > ua-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/v-deo.html Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > ua-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/v-deo.html
@@frankcarrizo7799 Good call, i updated the links above. But here's a video on noise > Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html
I installed an AO SMITH 50 gallon when I purchased a foreclosure in 2019. My home is all electric and it was installed in a nice sized utility room in our basement. Our electric bill is only 65.00 in months where HVAC is not needed so I would call this a success. In addition to installing this I found low Flo (1.5 bpm) shower heads. My cost to install was $600.00 after utility rebates that applied which was only 100.00 more than a standard. One additional thing I was able do was to dump the dryer vent in this room during the cooler months. I have kept a watch on the humidity in this room and have found it to be kept at 60% in effect recycling the energy that would have been expelled from the home not to mention the negative pressure and drafts that a dryer creates while running.
You can also install a duct that vents to the outside or someplace that you don't care about with possibly a damper so that you can get 'free' air conditioning in the summer.
Not sure how adversely it or not it would affect your electric bill but you wouldn’t have to keep it a high temperature for as many hours if you put it on high demand mode it will run the electric resistive heater but only when the heat pump won’t keep up.
You might consider installing a mixing valve so that the water temp delivered to your fixtures stays constant despite the change in tank temp. Then you wouldn't tell about the setback. You still benefit from the greater capacity with the higher tank temp but have no scalding risk. Also called a tempering valve.
And remember the efficiency of the heat pump varies with the temp difference between the air and the water. Keeping this temp difference low saves the most so ke Ed ping water Temps just high enough so you have enough hot water will maximize savings
I did exactly that and it works great. You can have a 50 gallon unit simulate an 80 gallon by raising the hybrid temp and have the mixing valve combine it to the lower temp.
Pure electricity wise it appears to be a winner. However, how do you determine that the water heater was the only change? Maybe the weather conditions were different, number/amount of cycles the unit ran, people in the home changed, etc. What is your heat source? How, or did that change? What was the cost of the unit over a conventional tank type? How long before you see ROI? Repair cost, when it happens, will negate ANY savings!!!!
Thanks for this informative video! I'd like to respond to your rhetorical question towards the end-- "Why install a HPWH if you have a gas furnace--just install a gas water heater". The reason is to stop using gas to heat your water as one step in the process to go all electric. That's what I'm doing, starting with water heaters, then I'll replace the gas furnace and AC units with air source heat pumps to do both, then add rooftop solar, induction cooktop, battery backup, EV and charging infrastructure, and be done with both fossil gas and my utility. That's why :)
I think your mistake was choosing too small a unit. I picked the 80 gallon (for a 4 person household). Secondly, perhaps the better option for you is to vent the unit outside in winter months so that the cold air is not being pumped into your room. I exhaust mine into a server rack to keep all my AV equipment cool and that more than takes care of the problem, in fact by time the air leaves the top of the rack it's generally at room temp.
I agree. We installed a 40 gal, because of the price and that's the size we had before, and it works fine in high demand mode for 4, but we probably could have run heat pump mode only with the 80 gal. All cost tradeoffs I guess
Ducting to a place I want to be cooler isn't an option for but could work for others. Here a video on ducting ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Thanks for watching ! Mike
I’m considering buying this for my house..I’m replacing a water heater and I’m thinking that going to 65 or 80 gals should help with issues like running out of hot water..I’m also considering installing this in my garage instead of the closet the old heater is currently in. I don’t care as much about the garage being cool in the winter..I’m in the north also.
I live in the north and thinking about getting a hybrid water heater when it's time to replace the existing one. Even though we have a gas furnace and water heater, it's actually propane, not natural gas, so can be quite expensive to run. The heater will be in an unfinished section of our basement (the rest of which is finished), next to the furnace. So, I can close the door to that room which should reduce the cooling effect on the rest of the basement in the colder months. I think this will also be a benefit in the summer months when it gets quite humid in the basement and the dehumidifier is constantly running.
I have had this water heater for a week and a half now and aside from the added noise in my den the cold has not been much of an issue, we are low water use family so I am unsure if that is helping us, but the den is about 2-3 degrees cooler which in some senses works for us because its used as a workout room (with an outside temp of 50) , and it is about 250 square feet. I will say its humming can be heard ( not bad, but a faint hum) in our living room due to the house only being 1200 square feet total and it being inside a converted garage to a den, so its basically inside the house. We are averaging 3.5 to 4 kilowatts a day on energy saver mode and in Washington that is 30-40 cents.
Its been well in the 30 at night (35-39) and no real difference than when installed. Other then the hum of it running and our den being slightly cooler, I think non noticeable now with our heatpump heater running. During the day it is about 45. I will keep updates coming. Next month going into January is when our 25-35 degree nights start.
Actually, Heat Pump Only mode uses less energy than "Energy Saver" mode. It is some odd testing regulation that forces the name apparently. My family of 5 averages 2 kWh of water heating per day.
So what did your average heating bill do after you installed this? The heat from inside your home is what is actually heating the hot water. Also the 4.0 efficiency for the water heater far exceeds any natural gas heat source when it's at 100 percent efficiency. That changes with temperature. You need to look at the efficiency curve and decide when it's best to switch to the electric mode. It will work in the north too. Just will take longer to cover its own costs. As I watched the video you literally said the same thing. Excellent video and explanation
I would be tempted to be far more aggressive with the setback. You probably only need to heat it once in the morning for showers. There is probably enough hot in the tank for the rest of the day after that. I saved about $25/mth running a standard electric that way.
Equid0X - I appreciate the comment and the idea. This is a good idea, i'll add to my bucket of experimenting. I have some other things i'm trying to. Appreciate you watching ! Thanks Mike
I am in the north and just installed the unit in a second home. I plan to duct both the input and output vents to help cool my house in the summer and draw heat from outside in the summer to make it more efficient. It is in an unused basement so cooling the room in the winter is not a big deal. A byproduct of it is that it dehumidifies the area allowing me to no longer run a dedicated dehumidifier. I just need to find a duct splitter so I can direct input and outputs based upon the season.
Your report on your Rheem Hybrid heat pump was very helpful in getting me closer to which model or heat pump or tankless. I currently have a 220 VAC unit and a Bradford White powered vent unit and both are 25 years old. The electric unit is just starting to weep and soon will throw up.
Thank you so much for your feedback on your hybrid water heater! I'm also looking at one and I live in Minnesota. I agree with you, I may need to turn it off for a couple, three months when it is very cold. One note, there are some federal and local credits for purchasing a hybrid electric water heater. This helps offset the cost, as well. Thank you, Mark
get yourself a high high efficiency mini split put one head in the basement. this unit should be 24Seer or higher with ability to heat down to -22. Depending on the type of electric HVAC you have this heat pump unit would offset enough of the furnace costs with the savings and still have positive savings after conditioning the basement. Depending on the basements size and your ability to install the mini split or at least do everything but the line set and have a AC guy do just that part you could get away with around 2-2.5K for the unit if you need 15-18K btu.Dont go to small with it though the smaller the BTU output of the heatpump they tends to drop off the heat output in cold temps to less than 10K at 0F. I wish i new the size of the basement but i think you need 12-18K btu to do what i am thinking. Dont think it isnt worth it either because heat rises as well as goes to cold so the warmer the basement the warmer the entire house is. Plus if you have cold air return in the basement for the furnace your already sharing that mini splits heat to the entire house and in the summer months you wont even need to run the mini split. I know it sounds counter intuitive but so doesnt robbing your living space for heat to heat hot water lol. The right mini split will still keep you at a positive savings on the bill if you have a standard old style non (invertor/multi speed compressor) furnace. Another option is out there and that is looking into the new whole house furnaces with this tech in them they have ones out now you just pull your air handler and plop theirs in retaining your AUX heat components.
I realize this is an older video but I just spotted it while doing my own research. Just few comments. You said you did other energy upgrades as well so how do you know the percentage savings is due to the water heater? I really wonder if fluctuating your water temperature from 120 to 132 is saving much if anything. How long does it take to increase water temp from 120 to 132 starting at 7am? Pretty slowly I would think, but maybe not? Heat pumps actually work better when using consistent temps. We have a York home heat pump for heating and cooling our house and I have monitored it very carefully, It actually seems to run less (and thus use less electricity) when I set a consistent temperature and leave it there rather than turning it down when we are away during the day. Have you considered venting the cold air to the outside in the winter and keeping it in the house in the summer? I think Rheem makes a kit to do that. Of course you have to have it set up in a location that is conducive to doing that. I do like your setup. Hot water heat pumps (actually all heat pumps) are amazing, but I think the economics of having one in the house is tricky. You have to spend money heating the air in the house (in the winter) only to have the water heater remove it to heat the water. Then you run your furnace to make up the heat lost to the water. Its great in the summer when you may reduce cooling costs which may offset the winter heating increase. My basement is actually very cool in the summer so I worry it will be too chilly to inhabit even in the summer. All the offsetting heating and cooling gets pretty complex, but I think does net a decent savings. Thanks for your video. Great food for thought.
I plan on ducting into the return air of my hvac system and also outside with a damper to switch between the two and that way during the summer get some free cooling when water heaters working and outside in colder temperatures. Problem solved.
THis is a great setup ! When exhausted to the outside you need to be careful you don’t cause negative pressure situation- which pulls cold air into the house or if you have a fireplace it could pull the smoke into the house. .... just something to consider and why I haven’t done it.
We went with the 80gal model. I was looking to replace the old 50gal, we have a big bathtub in the master the old heater could only fill 2/3 of the way before running out. Then the old unit started leaking and forced my hand, it's been great and can keep up with our usage at 123 degrees F. Now the only issue is the basement is colder and I'm considering ducting solutions to vent the cold air outside in the winter and upstairs in the summer.
I installed one of these to replace a perfectly fine gas water heater. The energy guide on this unit says it will cost $104 per year based on 12 cents per KW, which is what I pay. Gas water heater said $263 per year assuming gas at $1.09 per therm. My gas it $1.61 per therm. so my projected cost is more like $385 per year. Seemed like a no-brainer. Actual KW used, measured by the phone app is actually trending to about $400 per year based on two weeks of usage. I live in Sacramento. It almost never freezes here, but it is coldest part of year. Performance does not equal gas unit and extremely doubtful that it will save any money. I definitely would not do it again, if I had the option. Plus, the garage is REALLY cold. In the summer, that will be nice, but not so much in the winter. It is also noisy. You can hear it running in the bedroom next to the garage, where it is located. Bottom line: if you have a gas option, stick with gas.
Hey John. If you are in Sacramento you have SMUD and they have the best prices in the state. It is all about scheduling your water heater to run during the low price part of the day and skipping the peak. I'd bet good scheduling would help because I'd also guess you have a mixing valve and got a rebate when you installed it. It took me a few months to dial in my unit just like it did for Family DIY. The other reason to do this is that is avoids almost 12 tonnes of carbon pollution (when switching from natural gas) over a 13 year life. FYI - it takes 40 years for 1 valley oak to absorb 2.5 tonnes of carbon in Sacramento. Stick with it John.
I'm considering this for a damp, unfinished basement. Do I understand you correctly that it exhausts cool, dehumidified air?? That seems like a win-win for my needs of both hot water and dehumidification...??
I had a natural gas On Demand water heater for 15 years. For the cost of a dehumidifier you get hot water when only using the Heat Pump. The cool air is dry air, which you could duct upstairs or outside. We love it.
Thanks for the info and I appreciate to see the KW savings - very helpful. As for the cold air into the basement the easy answer is to vent it to the outside, just like one does with the dryer etc. I talked to an installer and it seems very easy and inexpensive to do. I was having the same concern since I leave in NY and the venting is the easy solution. I think this year I will be ordering an 80 gallon to replace my current 15 yr old 80-gal electric on (which surprisingly is still working well but I like the savings idea and not to have to replace it as an emergency one of these days lol). Thanks again for helping me with the decision based on savings.
Hi - thanks for watching, agree on the venting but before you do vent outside i would watch this. Just as a heads-up. ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
you could simply attach a flex insulated air-conditioning duct and redirect the cold air from the heat pump outside, or up into the attic, or elsewhere. When you WANT the cool air, simply remove it temporarily.
My heat pump(hybrid) water heater seems like a good investment. I guess I’ll know better at the 10 yr mark. We are a two person household.In the summer it’s about 1/4 the cost to operate of my old water heater. In the winter it’s about 1/3 the cost compared to the old one. Yes it was more expensive $1079 for 45 gallon and $196 in parts to install, but I will most definitely make the money back in a couple years. I’m just floored by the difference in our electric bills. Running it at 110deg most the day (change temp schedule via Wi-Fi). It comes on to 125deg (otherwise we run out of hot water) around 3pm-7:30pm(back down to 110deg normally just as 2nd person takes their shower).We’ve gotten in the habit of trying to run dw and take showers only in this window. It’s in the garage so we run it on heat pump only in the summer as it runs efficiently in a hot humid garage. In the winter we run it on energy saver (elements and heat pump). Highly recommend especially if your state offers a rebate.
I live in Maine and I use an external pellet furnace to heat my house during cold months - it does a great job and it’s (currently) a lot cheaper than using my oil fired furnace. My objective is to completely shut down the oil burning furnace AND and pellet furnace during spring/summer months. Would you anticipate a substantial savings in energy costs doing this? The net cost for the Rheem heater is only $850; I’m doing the installation. Your thoughts?
Had the board go out twice and already replaced the top element. It’s 2.5 years old. The unit has a lot of issues. Rheem is okay at sending parts out, but you’ll be without hot water for a week. You may want to get a board and have it on hand (not hard to replace). The unit will heat with only one element so that wasn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t expect these units to last longer then 10 years.
@@davidmassey3607 This is my concern. Any cost savings could quickly disappear depending on Rheem's warranty support and labor costs, not to mention major inconvenience. I was all set to purchase a Rheem Marathon WH, but reading about so many water leaks within the sealed tank and Rheem's less than stellar warranty support.
Matt on the channel Build just did a similar comparison on hybrid vs your standard water heater. Comparing the cost savings and if it is worth the cost. His channel Build is the "go to channel" for me and I believe his channel does a great job. Although he and his channel has more experience and access to information you don't have and a team to help him you information and presentation was in my opinion far better for what I was looking for. Am considering installing a new water heater and so glad you put this video up. It was just what I was looking for presented in and outstanding format that I could clearly follow. So thanks for taking the time in making this video.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a nice comment ! I look up to Matt Risinger , so the comparison is flattering, it really is. I'm trying to help people and i hope i helped you ! Have a great day because you made my day a little better. Thanks again, Mike
I installed the same 50 gal unit in my garage 3 years ago and it has already paid for itself, and will pay for 2 more before the 10 year warranty expires! One problem I see with your cost savings math is that you took 30% of your entire electric bill to calculate the water heater savings. As you said, your bill depends on several variables and you've also made other cost saving improvements that affected your bill. I think it would most accurate to multiply your total kWh usage from the water heater by the price/kWh. Since my garage will drop into the 40's in the winter, I cut a hole in the wall behind it to vent the intake to pull from my laundry room for even more efficiency. This has been my best investment after my solar system install earlier in 2019.
You violated the fire code by cutting a hole in your garage wall, if your car catches fire you just enabled the speed at which the fire will spread to the interior of your house.
There is a $300 federal tax credit for HPWH and there should be a local utility rebate that will speed up your payback. I got a total of $600 in rebates. I installed mine in June 2019 from nat gas. I have solar so I pay zero for electric and am saving about $25 in gas per month. Any thought to duct the outlet air outside?
Where are you located and how did it do last winter? Is the heater in a conditioned or unconditioned place? I did exactly what you did by switching from Nat gas to this model due to excess solar production. My old heater was power vented and expelled a lot of air out of the house while heating. Even though my 80 gallon Rheem cools the basement about 3 degrees during operation, I'm wondering if it will actually be warmer this winter since cold outdoor air won't be drawn into the basement to replace the air that was being expelled. Food for thought I suppose.
@@FamilyDIYtv In addition to the local rebates from the utility companies, there is a federal tax credit of $300 that everyone should qualify for. As of right now, it expires at the end of the year so your 2020 tax return will be the last chance to use it. You will need to fill out IRS Form 5695 with your tax return.
@@brianmonroe8715 you do man ! i'll definitely check this out at tax time. I did apply d for a federal rebate a few years back when I installed a new furnace and since then I haven't been able to claim anything on federal taxes(i maxed out), hoping this is another form. Thanks for the headsup ! pinning this one
What about the winter months? I assume the heat pump would switch to the induction elements during those times, as the air temp would be very cold, so it wouldn't be any more efficient than a regular electric water heater. Right? Basically I just want to see a full 12 month comparison.
the water heater doesn't automatically switch, but you can via the app. In the winter months i switch mine to high demand mode, basically uses the heat pump AND heating elements to heat water. During the really cold months if I'm having a party i turn the heat pump part off and go straight heating element. this of course costs the most but my basement isn't freezing. not sure i'd do again to be honest ... it's a pain
A couple of things. 1) even if you have gas you can do this to have less impact on the environment. Even counting losses from electric generation this is better for the environment. 2) a mixing valve will help you maintain constant water temperature at the tap in the house. 3) If you have solar then you can schedule operation to coincide with when the solar is producing electricity and then your payback is almost immediate. 4) If you live in a place that charges a different price at different times of the day (and you don't have solar) you can schedule it to only heat water when electricity is cheap and avoid it operating in the high cost period of the day. 5) although it is cooling the room it is also dehumidifying your basement.
Mine consumes about 3.5 kw daily in winter, and we are 5 in home. Currently, I am taking the warm air from attic and dumping cool air back there. Plan is to use a double dumper to use the cool air in summer and dump it in winter.
If you are to accurately determine the "payback", I suggest that you take the difference between (i) the cost of a direct replacement of your existing (gas?/electric?) water heater, and (ii) the higher cost of this new hybrid unit. It is the amortization of the difference that gives you a more accurate calculation of your payback period. Why this calculation? Because you intend to have a water heater no matter what, so the question is just how much more will you spend (incremental cost) on the new, more efficient heat-pump system. Also, consider what gas is used in the system: Rheem/Ruud sent me a written note that they ProTerra Hybrid water heaters use R-134A; I assume their heat-pump only water heaters also use that gas. NOTE 01: R-410A is being phased out because of its high Global Warming Potential (GWP). R-454B appears to be the replacement for R-410A; R32 is also coming online in the USA. Eventually, it appears that we may all have CO2 (carbon dioxide) in our compressors; CO2 (i) has zero (0.0) ODP (Ozone Depleting Potential) and (ii) is gauged as one (1.0) GWP (Global Warming Potential) over all periods of time. NOTE 02: CO2 is the gas against which the GWPs of all other gases are calculated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), based in Switzerland. R-11 is the gas against which the ODPs of all other gases is calculated. NOTE 03: Presently, the only company that uses CO2 in its compressors appears to be Sanden, Japan's largest maker of air-conditioning compressors that is not owned by an automobile manufacturer. Sanden's "SanCO2" water-heater system is distributed in the USA by www.Eco2SystemsLLC.com (Michigan). Sanden only produces heat-pump hot-water systems and no HVAC units...yet. The great beauty of this system is that the heat-pump compressor is separate from the storage tank; the SanCO2 compressor is usually installed outside battery limits (i.e., outside the air envelope of the residence or commercial building). Thanks for your video
Yep that's an option agree ! Def considered but it not as simple as just running a duct to the outside. I'll post video concerning this. Can cause a dangerous situation by just running a duct to the outside.
@@FamilyDIYtv You need a duct to bring outside air in and one to take the 'exhaust' out. Otherwise, you'll be pumping your heated/conditioned air outside.
Considering one, to replace a gas heater. Why? Because I’m trying to move away from running gas at the house. A large electric tankless is not an option for me, and those slurp energy regardless. And in my situation it’s super easy to add a new line from the breaker box.
Hahahah! Yeah the kids love to yell and stomp around the house when we're filming. But wouldn't change it for the world ! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching !
Apples to oranges. How much did your old system cost vs the heat pump. I changed from a gas system which costs 25 a month to use vs 8.25 with the hybrid. 75% savings for me. If I had an electric water heater the savings would have been 85%. I have a solar system with excess production so my savings is actually 100%. Free hot water
Chris - thanks for comment ! When you say old vs new, you mean power consumption or the cost of the actual unit ? This new unit is saving around (averages of course) 75 buck per month. Jealous you have solar ! Thanks for watching, Mike
Mike, I solved your too much cold air problem. 1st off - job well done explaining. Thanks much! We are all learning. Below are many points for anybody wanting to know more so here is the deal: Sizing, rebates, install tips, what to know, some pros and cons: (Mike see comment "B ") A) Recommend an install of a larger tank size for new installs. 50 vs 65gal. Adding 15gals. is more HW in reserve & that heat pump will heat, instead of electric backup, which only kicks in on high demand situations. Yes, you are heating larger volume, but it will save the electric heat units from kicking on. (The 65 is $400 more than the 50gal) B) Watch this video with a Rheem factory rep. ua-cam.com/video/ukv1cMp3vFI/v-deo.html The same unit can be connected to air ducts.(The video is 3-4yrs old, hope Rheem didn't change ducting ability!) IN WINTER You can vent the cool exhaust air directly out of the house. IN SUMMER Disconnect and temporarily take out a section of duct to keep cool dehumidifed air in basement (or garage)! Love it! Ability to cool a space depends on size AND how frequently your unit runs! 2 people showering is not same a 4 people! Morning showers activate the unit and cool a space, but don't expect the same cooling on a hot afternoon when nobody has created significant demand! Its basics people! Stop asking "what can I expect"? How many BTUs? Doesn't matter if unit aint running much! HOWEVER, I think these do cool an average space a few degrees. Helping maintain demumidified air is awesome and in many respects feels better to us humans than a few degrees difference (plus no rusted items in storage, no musty smells= huge!) Cutting a hole in a garage wall for ducting is easy, but not so in a basement. (You would need a portion of basement wall exposed and above grade. Maybe remove/retrofit a small basement window to route duct work OR make a duct sized hole in basement ceiling to 1st floor and 90-degree it outside, hide w/ sheetrock or put inside closet). Think about transitioning round duct to rectangular if needed. No downsizing of ducts. You need to have no resistance for the pump's fan to move enough air. Also duct run has to be a short run to outside. For longer runs add a mid-stream inline powered vent fan (few watts) which can be automatically turned on with heat pump running (a bit technical, it can be done, but don't ask me). So duct the exhaust and leave unit's intake alone. B1) These units use electricty to heat in high demand times, or when the ambient air temp is too low to keep up. Recommend the 30amp tank over the 15amp. When electric is needed the 30-amp tank has a much faster recovery rate (look at the specs, big difference !). Also realize the $$ cost of a new electric circuit and make sure you have room in your main panel. C) 120-122-degrees in not enough! Recommend turning up the temperature setting even higher during your daytime use hours if u are still short on demand. Remember the cheaper to run heat pump is doing the storage cheaply not the electric elements. C1) I'm still learning about HW tanks and deadly Legionnaires Disease bacteria, but it is true water temperatures of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that water heaters be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. FOR all you super Green People who want to set your tank super low, think again. Some conditions and environments, not all, can make your tank a breeding ground. What are the chances? I have no idea, but I'm ptting the info out there for people to learn for themselves. D) U are 100% correct putting these things in an already hot boiler room is the most efficient in winter as the air is pre-heated. Note: Units must have ample air volume per manufacturer (100 cubic feet) This is why if you put tank in a small closet you need to vent the closet significantly or add the ducts connecting outside the closet. E) Your install is good, but buyers need to be aware that old retrofit water connections coming from above the unit need to be moved out of the way above the new unit. The heat pump will likely need repair at some point and needs more than 15" to get the cover off. Do the install correct the 1st time. F) If diode needs replacement in years later see comment E! The diode is a bitch to get at. Most basements don't have ceiling clearance to fit a long diode out the top so it needs to come out 2 ft or so, be clamped (so it won't retract) cut in two or three, and be removed for replacement with a jointed diode (flexible one) G) The rebates in NYC metro area are $1000 From Con Edison and $300 tax credit. Your $1300 unit at Home Depot (don't know why your paid 1600 in u analysis unless u included fittings, condensation water pump, etc) H) For people whose tank has died the replacement cost is 1300 less cost of cheap electric tank (say $500) cause everybody needs hot water. As an upgrade to replace a working tank u have then full cost is relevant. I) BE AWARE - These Rheem units put off about 50-decibels of noise (about same as a newer dishwasher, but much lower than a window a/c unit). Remember decibels get exponentially loader and have a scale (60db is twice the amount of sound as 50db). Also these units give off some vibration. I have read, but have NOT confirmed, that final pipe connections need to be flex, braided hose, or pex connections (and maybe PVC) to not transfer the vibration to your rigid copper lines. I believe in eathquake prone west coast code is flexible lines regardless for all tank types. Somebody let me know if these heat pump units require it? J) Don't forget these units need to be connected to a drain for the condesation water that's collected. This is done with a $40-50 condensing pump that turns on when it senses water and pumps to a drain (upwards if needed). IF you don't need a pump, don't forget to add a cleanout point when connecting the line to the tank (if done in any rigid pipe type, pex included) The line is not under pressure so it can be left open or capped, but the condensation lines over time have a nasty habit of getting clogged with kunk and scum. A cleanout will make the job easy to snake out if you are installing rigid pipe for this. J) Supposedly, YES, you can put a duct/hole in your ceiling and draw hot attic air downward to feed the heat pump in the hot summer months (very efficient), but I do wonder about the maximum duct length allowed that the unit can "pull" in enough air to feed itself? Also remember to avoid doing 90' degree turns in the run as they add resistence (same thing as a long clothes dryer vent, which then takes longer to dry clothes and burns out heat elements). I'm not going to be the guy that tries out this method, but I am curious how many have failed to get the results they wanted? For people who want to put this in an attic don't! (With the exception If this is a replacement for an old unit, then maybe?) But for a new install the problems of getting it into the attic, future service access, the heavy filled weight, the noise vibration, the plumbing and electrical required, and no additional ceiling height for later service fixes (replacing diode or getting heat pump cover off) you are creating problems. The unit also has to be in a conditioned space (always above 40-degrees for the pump to even have a chance to get water hot enough for showers, otherwise it will use electricity to heat up at same cost as a pure electric tank. Also pipes freeze in cold climates in unconditioned attics. Plus you need to clean the air filter screen on these things monthly at a minimum (top unit access too). I have seen to many "Green People" wanting to put it in a hot attic to cool thier house (heat rises) but they don't have a clue what conditioned means! For those people educate yourself! AND don't put pipes and a device with 50 gallons of water subject to catastrophic failure above your entire living space! Can you say MASSIVE water Damage! K) I remain concerned about the complexity of these units (too many points of failure), the heat pump, circuit panels, led screen are all 1 more thing that can break. Reliability is priceless! A happy family and wife not bitching about cold showers is priceless too!. A 10 year warranty is not awesome (compared to lifetime warranties offered on indirect HW tanks for the same price if you can do indirect). These units only appear to have about a 10 yr history for broader adopted residential use. That really isn't that long for us pigeons to know rates of failure that occured less than the warranty period.. In 10 years I doubt the rebates currently offered will be available so replacement cost might be full price when the time comes. Early adopters who like to brag about "how many cents per KW hour" should always look at long term operatiing costs! The chance for just 1 additional repair during lifespace will eat most $$$ savings! Not denying these are good for the environment and reducing carbon, but there are other things to factor in your decision.
I have the 80 gallon version and use 4500 gallons a month (not all Hot water) and it cost me .45 cents a day to operate. I also vented exhaust air from heat pump into a y fitting that i can vent outside in the winter time or into the return air of my AHU system for summer and get free cooling from water tank while heating water. Love mine.
Robert, Thanks for sharing this was my plan but I decided against it, but I'm glad it working for you. I made an updated video on venting if your interested ! Thanks again for watching and thanks for your comment and ideas !!! ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Thanks Mike
To address the problem of heat pump mode cooling your basement too much in the winter, instead of running it in electric/resistive heat mode, maybe it would be worthwhile to instead spend a small amount to duct the cold output air to the outside. Then during the warm months, disconnect or divert that cold output back into the basement (or other parts of the house the could use it). The ducting is a one time modest expense (especially if you don't buy the ridiculously overpriced rheem outlet duct adapter) that provides the valuable options needed to continue to achieve maximum savings by using heat pump mode.
Hello - I appreciate the idea. I did a video on this because this was a very common comment, and makes sense, but it's not a one size fits all solution. I appreciate the comment Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Mike
I bought the same exact unit and got $800 instant rebate from Eversource at Home Depot in Connecticut. Plus, $400 federal tax credit when you file taxes. List price was $1400 in March of 2020 when I bought it. And I am saving on my monthly electric bill. Before I had an 80 gallon electric tank heater that ate up the electricity.
Florida garage install, 50 gallon hybrid water heater...Plenty of hot water and nice dehumidifying and cooling for the garage which in turn kept that heat out of the house. Cold time of the year I put it in hybrid mode to help it keep up in a cold garage. Getting ready to replace it after the compressor crapped out after 10 years. Sadly going to have to pay full price on this one, no rebate this time around from the power company.
Hey I did some research on rebates and I found that my utility company is offering rebates and you can claim this on your federal tax return as well, yay
I'm only here because I was in need of a new water heater. When I saw the $1600 price on one these I had to try and understand why! I've personally crunched the numbers and there is just no way this makes any financial sense whatsoever! Good for you at finding a way to make you think your saving money somehow.
First, I want you to know I really appreciated your video and found it very helpful. I am considering installing a similar heat pump HW heater in my house in Maine where I will need to address the same issues. Your energy savings estimates and payback time calculations are in error, however. The electric data you provide early in this video appear to be your total monthly household electric figures. No doubt there are many factors that contribute to your lower electric use in 2020 as compared with 2019. According to your figures your monthly electric savings for 2020 were 492 kWh, which multiplied by 12 is an annual reduction of 5,901 kWh. A 50 gallon electric hot water heater is estimated to use 3,500 kWh annually. (This is a DOE estimate for a 4-person family.) Thus your estimated savings, which you attribute to your new hot water heater, is nearly double the estimated annual use that your electric HW heater would have had in 2019. This is simply not possible. Later, you show the monthly electric use for your new hybrid hot water heater. The average monthly use you report for Mar - Aug is 120 kWh. At best a heat pump uses about 1/3 the electricity used for pure electric heat. So let us assume that your new HP uses 1440 kWh annually and, for the sake of argument, saves twice this amount or 2880 kWh annually. Based on your numbers the dollar value of this savings is about $18 per month, a lot less than the $75 per month you estimated. The simple payback time then is then $1600/$216 = 7.5 years. But the payback is actually longer for two reasons. First, the 3-to-1 heating COP for this heat pump is optimistic. Second, you must account for the additional heat that you must supply to your basement in the winter. Bottom line, these hybrid heat pump hot water heater saves energy, but not nearly as much as you suggest. Happy to discuss this further. thepragmaticsteward.com
Have you thought about exhausting the cold air outside so your basement is not so cold they actually build a cap that goes on it. We live in Canada and blowing cold air into your basement in the winter time is a really bad idea, so have you thought about exhausting, the hot water heater exhaust outside?
Good video. I plan on replacing my 2 natural gas units with 2 Rheem Hybrid Water heaters. I live in San Diego area. We have some of the highest utility rates in the country so I have a ton of solar and my garage is a furnace in the summer. I don't know what I'm looking forward to more. Saving the $100 on heating hot water or cooling down the garage.
Isnt your furnace really heating hot water now in the winter. Sucking the heat out of your house. Would affect the savings. Also isnt the unit supposed to be 6 inchs away from any wall.
Thanks for your reviews of this water heater. In a previous video you show water sensors around your sump pump but I can't find a video where you show us how that works and where to find these. Can you please share that info? Also, regarding the cool air . . . can you install a vent line on the cold air exit to the outside? I know that's a pain (may have to cut a hole in the stem wall) but might be less expensive all around?
Unless I’m confused the Rheem I looked at had 2 heating elements same as any other water heater. It uses the heat pump unless you demand more then the regular heating elements come on. If you didn’t know it was going to AC your basement that’s on you. You could duct it outside.
Got mine installed professionally. AO smith 67 gallon. My plumber set it to 140f and installed a mixing valve. You should set the temps higher and install a mixing valve if you don't have one. I have 3 people in my home currently. No issues with running out of hot water whatsoever. My basement also gets very hot and humid over the summer. It helped substantially with the humidity and heat in the basement. Also keep in mind the utility company gives a rebate for a heat pump water heater. It's a no brainer getting one of these installed if its in a basement or garage imo.
I just purchased one I am waiting for it to arrive. I have found almost $750 in rebates for this unit. Rheem says there are $1050 in rebates for this unit. The rebates I found went into effect in Oct 2020. It sounds like you purchased it before that time. I am in New Jersey not far from you. I have a large basement which I do not need to heat. The reduced temperature will not effect me. I do need the dehumidifier effect for the spring, summer, and fall. I did find if you need a hot water heater in a hurry, it is not the unit to get it is 3 weeks to order from Home Depot. I am switching from gas. There are just two seniors living in my house. The hot water from the heat pump will do most of our hot water needs.
Gene! That's great news, good luck on your new purchase and thanks for watching ! A shinny new water heater is not the funnest thing to buy but if you have to buy one it fun to know it's super efficient and can be controlled via app ! Thanks for watching - Mike
Good luck ! since it's unfinished you probably won't care that it will chill it down. if i had to do again, I'm not sure i would have at this point. Primarily because of the cooling aspect of it... it's annoying. at this point i don't care about the savings...
Great job here’s a comment for the metrics and AI. I live in So Cal and I have a gas unit in a upstairs closet vented to roof and open into attic so I think this option would be perfect, pay for itself in 18~months. Is it noisey? Like in a hallway next to bedroom doors? Also is it 120? or does in need 3 phase? 240v? Seems like a win-win-win in summer and southern states and a win-lose in winter.?!??
Good for watching this video, and thank you for that. I almost go with this hybrid Heatpump system, but now it changed my mind because of that cold air it will effect my basement temperature. I made decisions now to go with electric only and that is still a RHEEM MODEL: PROE50 T2 RH92 CL this one will use electric heat only and full amp load is about 18 amps. Please check it out guys.
Just vent it outside with a selector to vent inside in summer if you basement is hot. I was going to say install a temperature mixing value (TMV) for safety reasons (compulsory) in a lot of countries to bring you hot water temperature down to the safe use range (50-60C) but you are only running it at 132F (55 Degrees C), which appears too low to even consider a mixing valve and probably means limited backup high demand storage.Don’t have too many stay over guests! NSW in Oz
I've been looking for a new hot water system as my cylinder life is running out (25yr old system currently) and I would like more shower pressure along with it. Idk if the numbers stack up here in New Zealand. I use about 3000-4000kwh a year or 11kwh a day. I'm frugal with my power usage as its so expensive here. It would also cost me over $6000 to get something similar installed. I just don't see the savings. Hmmm
So DIYer here,Not a plumber, located south Florida, installed unit Rheem 50 gallon, in Garage. Temps & humidity in garage ,in summertime are unbelievable , 89 temp , 70 or 80% humidity. in "wintertime" here south fl , on some days it can mildly cool off garage, but not in summertim, maybe 80 gallon unit , anyway installed maybe 5 or 6 years ago when first became available, think it cut $25 to $ 30 monthly off my bill, only 2 people mostly in here. When visitors come( thats a thing in Florida) i need to change to High demand mode, both elements and compressor run, but zero issues supply hot water. Th main control board blew out after first 2 years, we have insane amount of lightening here for 7 or 8 months, so covered under Warranty took 2 weeks to send me board, in meantime i rigged the element , by direct wiring to 240 and energized about 10 minutes , water was hot, pita , but did the job. Later installed whole house surge unit in Panel, Breaker. I noticed in many Videos that people have not installed the required ?? Hot Water Expansion Tank, i think is code required most everyplace, cost like $50.00, Not a licensed plumber, anyway its been great addition, i read the WIFI app not too good.
Frank - that's awesome ! rigging the element is impressive, not sure i'd know how to do that, but sometimes when your forced to figure something out - you do ! I always live by the words of an old professor - "someone somewhere figured it out, why not you!". The expansion tank is required in my house because i have a check valve on my incoming water supply, if a house doesn't have it, then there's no need. I need to install a whole house surge - which one did you use ? was it hard to install ? Thanks Mike
How critical is the app for use? I just don't see Rheem supporting the app on IOS 25, for example, 12-15 years from now? There is nothing software developers hate more than supporting old hardware. So most likely you will lose app functionality in realistically 6-7 years. I guess you could keep an unsupported older device to just use the Rheem app, but you lose the convenience of having all your apps on your one main device. Great and informative video.
If you want to use any of the scheduling function, you need the app. If your just gonna set it on energy saver mode and let it go then the app won't to useful. So the unit will work fine without the app. Thanks for the comment ! Mike
if you don't want the heat pump to cool up your basement you can always vent out the cool air . thats what I did on my 80 gallons hybrid . thanks for your videos very well done.. im going to put my water temperature on schedule now thanks to your video. very nice of you ..
To be clear, in cool winter climates you would only want to vent it to an inside location that might have excessive heat. If you vent it outside then an equal amount of cold outside air will be drawn into the house. And my guess is that for most of the time in the winter the outside air is colder than the air coming from the water heater outlet.
you may want to try ducting the exhaust outside with a valve so u can let it vent outside in the winter and then flip it back inside when the weather is warmer.
Great video. I am from NEPA and just had a rheem plat perf installed 2 days ago. In 2 days after 9 showers it has used 37.86 kWh using energy saver mode. I am still trying to figure out how to best use this hybrid heater to reduce kWh. As of now, I am not impressed with this water heater. Tomorrow, I will use heat pump mode. Kind of disgusted
Thanks for this information. Facing the need to replace a passive solar water heating panel for the third time in 15 years, at the cost of $3K - I had the solar system removed and am now researching what to replace it with. I live in Florida, the water heater is in the garage and with the benefit of cold air being pumped into the hot garage space, this sounds like the perfect solution.
Excellent video, Question: Is there any way to hook up a sort of exhaust hose to direct the cold air outside? Do this for the Winter and remove it in the Summer.
Made videos on all this, links in description but here they are Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > ua-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/v-deo.html Video on the Eco Net App > ua-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/v-deo.html Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > ua-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/v-deo.html
Mike, great video. I just bought a Rheem 80 gallon hybrid for my condo in coastal Alabama. The utility room I am putting it in is large enough, but I am wondering the feasibility of directing the heat pump exhaust cool air directly into the large diameter AC vent approximately 6' away which would put cool air into the entire condo (4500 sq ft) and draw air into the intake from the utility room and two doors which have a 1 1/2" gap on the bottom (warmer air). I figure this would both make my water heater more efficient by drawing warmer air and helping to cool my nearby areas via the ac ductwork. In the mild winter (when water usage is less anyways as summer here are the busy months), I could switch to electric mode (heat pump off) so that it does not shoot cool air into my condo or just vent it into the utility room and keep those door closed so that it doesn't cool the condo. Does this make sense? The AC ductwork has an area exactly the same size as a 8" diameter exhaust hose so the only pressure problem I see could be the hybrid heater trying to exhaust cool air while the ac unit is blowing. I could solve that with pressure venting. I can't find any yeahs or neys on venting directly into the ac ductwork. I am also not worried about condensation as the ac units serve as dehumidifiers kicking out dehumidified air. Thoughts? I would really like your input. Once again, enjoyed your video. If this unit isn't to noisy, I'll install a second one in a closet and just put venting through the closet door since that room is very small. Thanks again.
I just bought a house in Augusta ME . The home is super energy efficient. It was built in 2021. It has 3 bathrooms with showers. Half the basement is finished. The unfinished part is about 800 sqft where the hybrid heat pump hot water heater is. It is insane cold. I’m going to finish out that half of the basement and rip that BS out of there. I’m replacing it with a tankless propane water heater. Sometimes comfort is worth more than a few extra bucks. I’m from Texas and down there it would be nice to have an Air Conditioner in my garage but it no freaking good for a New England basement
I did what they do in Europe and Philippines, I installed a $150 propane on demand heater in each of 3 bathrooms and the kitchen; very cheap to operate, and if one fails, it's just another $150 to replace it
If you locate this hot water in a living area you will have to heat the air the water heater uses during the cold weather months. This will directly reduce your energy savings in the process. If you locate it in an unconditioned area, like an unheated garage, the unit will not work during the cold months (it will switch back to resistance heating). On top of that it is a heat pump and will need the maintenance associated with heat pumps. I doubt that you will save anything over the long haul.
Energy efficiency Maine has a good website that includes calculators The one for Hot Water Heat Pumps let’s you set variables for source water temp, water temp target, gallons per day cost per kWh, ambient temp target . You can Leo see how it comparison with different fuel type systems From other comments I think some are using kWh cost but be sure to use total kWh delivery charge with all fees etc. for your true cost. From a cost savings, and energy efficiency perspective I would strongly recommend if possible you own a Solar Electric System and you then lock in you electric cost for Heating / AC with Heat Pump, Domestic Hot Water, Residential Electric needs etc. Take advantage of Federal, State nd Utility Rebates. Swap out your utility bills to pay off your solar system which should happen in 5 to 7 years. The Solar is Free forever and the Rooftop Solar is very durable capital equipment with no moving parts usually warranted for 25 years. Pay yourself first! Finally the video was great but the App for the heat pump gives you total control for savings potential, efficiency and comfort if you look at the data and think about when you heat the water as well as when you don’t. Reheating water when you are asleep or not usually home etc. is a waste of your money.
I just heard about the hybrids and came across your video in my research! I really liked that you explained where you were 6 months ago, what you learned and all your savings research! thank you for helping me make my decision. Too bad you don't live here in FL so you could install it for me!
In a northern climate venting to the attic could also work for some. A cool dry attic would help the roof last longer. In the winter most of them are already cool.
Thanks for your video. I'm in the South with electric WH in the garage. My current standard 50 gallon unit (11 years old) is leaking and needs replacement. I'm seriously considering purchasing a Hybrid Heat Pump WH. I'm excited about the potential cost savings paying for the unit in 2-3 years. My biggest concern is reliability of the unit. Not only do we have to worry about the standard components of a Water Heater (tanks usually fail every 10 years), we now have to worry about additional components that make up the heat pump unit along with special electronics. I'm reading many negative reviews of Rheem's customer service and warranty process. I'd be worried with having to replace components and whether I can do it myself or have to pay labor fees which could eat into the cost savings vs a traditional WH. I'm on the fence of purchasing a traditional Bradford White, Hybrid or Marathon WH.
MTB Biker- first of all, I love your UN name, I use to race downhill and miss it... :( Your concerns are valid and i had the same, the one thing that eased my mind(at least a little) was that although WH using heat pump is relatively new, heat pump aren't. Heat pumps are a proven tech. Have you decided yet ? -Mike
@@FamilyDIYtv Thanks for the reply. My A/C is a heat pump. I'm pretty much sold on the Rheem Pro Terra 50g from Home Depot for $1500. Now I'm just trying to figure out if I can install it myself. Being side feed will require some additional plumbing (copper vs PEX) plus I'm researching adding vacuum relief valve and thermal expansion tank to the system. No downhill racing for me! I'm a newbie that started out with a budget hardtail. Then started doing some upgrading to it (1x11, brakes, fork). Just recently built up my first full suspension frame Canfield Balance (170/165mm travel). I believe the Canfield Brothers have a history in downhill racing. Enjoying my new hobby (riding and wrenching) but I take it mellow on the trails.
Are you concerned at all with bacteria growth at the lower temperatures? I set mine at a higher temperature and put a mixer on it to take it down to a temp that would not burn but would kill any bacteria. Not the most energy efficient but no odor or bacteria growth.
In central Florida, cost me $86 to run in the entire 2020. The old unit cost me nearly $400 the previous year. Not only did I save a significant amount to heat water, I also increased the capacity from 50 gallons to 80 gallons. It was a win for me... (self installed too)
That's awesome Dennis ! Appreciate you watching.
Mike
How do you calculate how much it cost you to run the unit per year?
@@janfier The Econet app has graphs and usage reports for days, weeks, months and year. Times the amount by the prevailing usage rate. If your rate changes throughout the day, you probably won't get a good read unless you program it to only run during the cheapest usage times.
@@phlydude thanks for the response. The old water heater that cost you $400 a year to operate how you calculate that one.
@@janfier essentially calculated from the energy sticker on it - taking the annual usage on the sticker x the kwh rate
I initially had the same problem you had with the cold basement. The fixed that problem by venting the exhaust air outside, which hugely fixed the cold basement problem. During the summertime, i disconnect the vent so the cold air vent into the basement to help dehumidify the air. Here in MA, they offer a $600 rebate for my specific unit. My initial cost was $1200 and after the rebate, the unit only cost me $600 which is about the same as a regular electric water heater. I also run my unit on a scheduler also, which greatly increased my savings.
I'm glad that worked out for you ! Thanks for watching, thanks for the idea ! I was planning on venting outside but for my situation I don't believe that's gonna work. Appreciate the comment !
Video on venting in case interested-
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Thanks
Mike
I bought this water heater ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
Perfect!
I installed one of these in a friend's house down in Iowa, he loves it!! Keeps the humidity in his unfinished basement down so no need for a dedicated dehumidifier.
Jack ! Thanks for the comment !
Mike
Appreciate your video explanation very good and learning to use it correctly.
I instruct students and contractors in HVAC.
You only need to vent the cold air outside to solve the problem, and you are definitely able to do it .
For some of my customers I vent into a foam instalation walk in for wine , vegetables , fruit ,etc. year round.
Finally these units can be installed on the first or second floor near shower area ( laundry room in my second floor) for master bath and common bath.
Again great job!!!!
My suggestion is duct the cool air outside if you don’t want it inside. Really simple to duct it. You can also put a two way damper in your duct work to use the cool air in summer and open the damper to the outside vent side in the winter when you don’t want the cool air.
Jack, thanks for the comment and the idea. Your suggestion makes sense, for my specific case I decided against doing that. Here's a video on venting this unit
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment !
Mike
My thoughts exactly!
Would that create -ve pressure in the house. Pumping air out of the house that air has to be replaced from somewhere no?
if it is cold outside then you just send cold air outside to have cold air sucked into house to replace that air seems these would only make sense in hot climates.
@@ranger178 You should have two vents, sucking air from outside and blowing the colder air back inside plus not tax the heating system by cooling inside air. This would equalize pressure and not cause extra air exchange with the outside. In the summer, vent to inside to acts as extra free air conditioning. But frankly these units sve so much electricity, it is probably not worth the bother, And if installed in the basement, the extra dehumidification year round would help prevent mold and mildew.
An instant rebate from Central Hudson made the price $678 in Nov 2019 at Home Depot for this item. Installation cost $588 (which also included removing the existing water heater and condensate pump) for a total cost of $1266. Lives in the unfinished part of the basement with an oil furnace so cooling is a non-issue. Set to 125 degrees in energy saving mode and have never run out of hot water! Electric savings will pay total price in 2021.
I installed one of these a few years back myself. Unfortunately, it didn't come with an app. There was a wifi module that was several hundred dollars extra, and still no app with that, it basically just allowed a water detection alarm during a leak. Glad to hear they fixed that. Because the high efficiency mode is useless without being able to manually schedule the temperature. Like you, the water was always luke warm. It works great in high demand mode though which ironically was the customer support recommendation, just run it in high demand she said. We are in Texas, and what some people do is put a duct on the output of the unit that splits off to outdoors and indoors, and you baffle off indoors during winter and outdoors during summer.
Hello Mike, I installed my Hybrid back in Nov 2022. My W/H died after a hurricane in SWFL. Your video is what convinced me to purchase the 50gal model and self installed in my garage, so a Big Thanks. We get a lot of sediment in our water so i went a step further and installed a filter before the water enters the tank to cut down on having to flush the tank. It is now May 2024 and I drained and flushed tank for the first time and found no sediment coming out of the bottom out of the tank.
I definitely noticed a savings. I havent had any performance issues. I used the app to schedule for our needs and used the OnDemand feature in the morning for 1-2 hours. Only issue Ive come across is occasionally drops off the wifi but reconnects on its own. My next step is to see how the anode rode is holding up. I plan to switch to a powered Anode rod which supposedly will out last the water heater.
Nice video a little long. Heres a few ideas. 1) Create ducting to move less dense air (warmer air closer to the ceiling) down into the intake (top of your HWH). 2) Exhaust cooler air coming out of the side through an insulated pipe venting to the outside. Check angle to make sure air that might be condensing is running toward the exit not toward the HWH. 3) During spring and summer you can basically reverse this giving you free A/C. I live in Texas and I pull from the hot attic and vent into the house. In the winter the air is vented into the garage. I keep water at 130 and it never runs out and have knocked a solid 12-18% off my electric bill a month.
I'm wondering the same - if I run a duct from the top of the great room down to the basement for warm input during winter...
I installed my Rheem in the garage here in Portland, Oregon. In the Summer I leave the garage door open to my house so we get the benefits of the cool air and in the Winter the door is left closed and the garage remains chilly for the cold food I store in there (root vegetables and fruit). I leave the temperature at 120 for best savings since I have the larger capacity model and we never run out of hot water.
Great information, though I’ve seen higher cost savings in other videos, your analysis seems very right. As far as the cooling issue, I saw one case where one installer installed a two way output vent. One way it vent the output to the outdoors during the winter months, then indoors during the heat of the warmer summer months. Seemed like a ideal resolution to me.
Brian,
I had the same plan but changed that after some research, I suggest before you go through the trouble of venting your unit you watch this.
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Thanks again for watching,
Mike
Are you a certified plumber
I purchased the 80 Gal model about two years ago. Its my wife and I, I oversized on purpose since a heat pump is much slower recovery. I am in the south so we love it. If your in a cold climate, I would not recommend. In full heat pump mode, I measured 1.7 Amps of load on 220v. That is crazy low. I have a walk out basement with a small garage integrated where the water heater is located. When I built the house I put 8" vent thru the wall for winter use. If used in the correct climate and installed with options to vent, its free air conditioner to the basement in the summer. Noise level is 2 or 3 times a refrigerator. Would not want it near any sitting area, kitchen etc. It runs for hours and hours. But it is just sipping electric. The noise is not a problem for us.
Sound great !!!
One thing that I did not see you account for: In summer you're paying to cool your house down. If you can duct the cold exhaust into the living area, every BTU of cooling you dump there, is a BTU you don't have to pay for, so you can view it as paying for the same cooling you would anyways, and getting free hot water as a byproduct, or you can view it as paying for hot water and getting free cooling, in any case you save twice, once because heating water with a heat pump is 4 times cheaper that resistive electricity and 2 because you get cold/dry air. Additionally I personally needed to run a dehumidifier during winter but because this does the same job now I don't have to, so again I'm getting double savings in winter as well.
agree 100%, just hard to quantify these points, they are good points !
I live in Texas where I have a gas heater. It's 10 years old seems to be asking for replacement (it's rated at just under $300 per year in fuel). The gas tank vents above into the attic out the roof. Instead, I could vent the hybrid up the attic into the room upstairs a foot away. (Insulate the vent). If it could give a couple degrees of relief to the single upstairs bonus room, that'd be awesome. Seems as if a series of input dampers (input air from the garage or the above attic) and output dampers (into the house, into the garage, out the roof) would be amazing.
Seems like a cool setup !!!
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > ua-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/v-deo.html
Video on the Eco Net App > ua-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/v-deo.html
Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html
Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > ua-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/v-deo.html
What about the noise?
@@frankcarrizo7799 Good call, i updated the links above. But here's a video on noise >
Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html
I installed an AO SMITH 50 gallon when I purchased a foreclosure in 2019. My home is all electric and it was installed in a nice sized utility room in our basement. Our electric bill is only 65.00 in months where HVAC is not needed so I would call this a success. In addition to installing this I found low Flo (1.5 bpm) shower heads. My cost to install was $600.00 after utility rebates that applied which was only 100.00 more than a standard. One additional thing I was able do was to dump the dryer vent in this room during the cooler months. I have kept a watch on the humidity in this room and have found it to be kept at 60% in effect recycling the energy that would have been expelled from the home not to mention the negative pressure and drafts that a dryer creates while running.
You can also install a duct that vents to the outside or someplace that you don't care about with possibly a damper so that you can get 'free' air conditioning in the summer.
I would dump it in the attic in the summer time.
ahhh you stole my idea, lol jk but I just said same exact thing.
Not sure how adversely it or not it would affect your electric bill but you wouldn’t have to keep it a high temperature for as many hours if you put it on high demand mode it will run the electric resistive heater but only when the heat pump won’t keep up.
You might consider installing a mixing valve so that the water temp delivered to your fixtures stays constant despite the change in tank temp. Then you wouldn't tell about the setback. You still benefit from the greater capacity with the higher tank temp but have no scalding risk. Also called a tempering valve.
And remember the efficiency of the heat pump varies with the temp difference between the air and the water. Keeping this temp difference low saves the most so ke Ed ping water Temps just high enough so you have enough hot water will maximize savings
I did exactly that and it works great. You can have a 50 gallon unit simulate an 80 gallon by raising the hybrid temp and have the mixing valve combine it to the lower temp.
Pure electricity wise it appears to be a winner. However, how do you determine that the water heater was the only change? Maybe the weather conditions were different, number/amount of cycles the unit ran, people in the home changed, etc.
What is your heat source? How, or did that change?
What was the cost of the unit over a conventional tank type?
How long before you see ROI?
Repair cost, when it happens, will negate ANY savings!!!!
Tom, heat source is electric. Thanks for your comment! Stay warm ! -Mike
Thanks for this informative video! I'd like to respond to your rhetorical question towards the end-- "Why install a HPWH if you have a gas furnace--just install a gas water heater". The reason is to stop using gas to heat your water as one step in the process to go all electric. That's what I'm doing, starting with water heaters, then I'll replace the gas furnace and AC units with air source heat pumps to do both, then add rooftop solar, induction cooktop, battery backup, EV and charging infrastructure, and be done with both fossil gas and my utility. That's why :)
Makes sense !
Thanks
Mike
I think your mistake was choosing too small a unit. I picked the 80 gallon (for a 4 person household). Secondly, perhaps the better option for you is to vent the unit outside in winter months so that the cold air is not being pumped into your room. I exhaust mine into a server rack to keep all my AV equipment cool and that more than takes care of the problem, in fact by time the air leaves the top of the rack it's generally at room temp.
Good thinking! I was planning on using it to cool my server rack.
I agree. We installed a 40 gal, because of the price and that's the size we had before, and it works fine in high demand mode for 4, but we probably could have run heat pump mode only with the 80 gal. All cost tradeoffs I guess
Ducting to a place I want to be cooler isn't an option for but could work for others. Here a video on ducting
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching !
Mike
Or put it outside if practical.
I’m considering buying this for my house..I’m replacing a water heater and I’m thinking that going to 65 or 80 gals should help with issues like running out of hot water..I’m also considering installing this in my garage instead of the closet the old heater is currently in. I don’t care as much about the garage being cool in the winter..I’m in the north also.
I live in the north and thinking about getting a hybrid water heater when it's time to replace the existing one. Even though we have a gas furnace and water heater, it's actually propane, not natural gas, so can be quite expensive to run. The heater will be in an unfinished section of our basement (the rest of which is finished), next to the furnace. So, I can close the door to that room which should reduce the cooling effect on the rest of the basement in the colder months.
I think this will also be a benefit in the summer months when it gets quite humid in the basement and the dehumidifier is constantly running.
sounds like this makes sense for you !
good luck !
Mike
I have had this water heater for a week and a half now and aside from the added noise in my den the cold has not been much of an issue, we are low water use family so I am unsure if that is helping us, but the den is about 2-3 degrees cooler which in some senses works for us because its used as a workout room (with an outside temp of 50) , and it is about 250 square feet. I will say its humming can be heard ( not bad, but a faint hum) in our living room due to the house only being 1200 square feet total and it being inside a converted garage to a den, so its basically inside the house. We are averaging 3.5 to 4 kilowatts a day on energy saver mode and in Washington that is 30-40 cents.
I’d be interested to here if it impacts the temp in the middle of the winter - like Dec-Feb.
I'll give an update when the outside temp hits 40-45 daytime and 35-40 night time, which is normal for us in November and Dec.
Its been well in the 30 at night (35-39) and no real difference than when installed. Other then the hum of it running and our den being slightly cooler, I think non noticeable now with our heatpump heater running. During the day it is about 45. I will keep updates coming. Next month going into January is when our 25-35 degree nights start.
Actually, Heat Pump Only mode uses less energy than "Energy Saver" mode. It is some odd testing regulation that forces the name apparently. My family of 5 averages 2 kWh of water heating per day.
So what did your average heating bill do after you installed this? The heat from inside your home is what is actually heating the hot water.
Also the 4.0 efficiency for the water heater far exceeds any natural gas heat source when it's at 100 percent efficiency. That changes with temperature. You need to look at the efficiency curve and decide when it's best to switch to the electric mode. It will work in the north too. Just will take longer to cover its own costs. As I watched the video you literally said the same thing. Excellent video and explanation
I would be tempted to be far more aggressive with the setback. You probably only need to heat it once in the morning for showers. There is probably enough hot in the tank for the rest of the day after that. I saved about $25/mth running a standard electric that way.
Equid0X - I appreciate the comment and the idea. This is a good idea, i'll add to my bucket of experimenting. I have some other things i'm trying to.
Appreciate you watching !
Thanks
Mike
I am in the north and just installed the unit in a second home. I plan to duct both the input and output vents to help cool my house in the summer and draw heat from outside in the summer to make it more efficient. It is in an unused basement so cooling the room in the winter is not a big deal. A byproduct of it is that it dehumidifies the area allowing me to no longer run a dedicated dehumidifier. I just need to find a duct splitter so I can direct input and outputs based upon the season.
Tom, that’s awesome !
this is why i didn’t duct mine
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Your report on your Rheem Hybrid heat pump was very helpful in getting me closer to which model or heat pump or tankless. I currently have a 220 VAC unit and a Bradford White powered vent unit and both are 25 years old. The electric unit is just starting to weep and soon will throw up.
Great, I’m glad it helped a little. Not a perfect science here, but I’m glad it helped !
Enjoy your new water heater ! Ha
Mike
Thank you so much for your feedback on your hybrid water heater! I'm also looking at one and I live in Minnesota. I agree with you, I may need to turn it off for a couple, three months when it is very cold. One note, there are some federal and local credits for purchasing a hybrid electric water heater. This helps offset the cost, as well. Thank you, Mark
get yourself a high high efficiency mini split put one head in the basement. this unit should be 24Seer or higher with ability to heat down to -22. Depending on the type of electric HVAC you have this heat pump unit would offset enough of the furnace costs with the savings and still have positive savings after conditioning the basement. Depending on the basements size and your ability to install the mini split or at least do everything but the line set and have a AC guy do just that part you could get away with around 2-2.5K for the unit if you need 15-18K btu.Dont go to small with it though the smaller the BTU output of the heatpump they tends to drop off the heat output in cold temps to less than 10K at 0F. I wish i new the size of the basement but i think you need 12-18K btu to do what i am thinking. Dont think it isnt worth it either because heat rises as well as goes to cold so the warmer the basement the warmer the entire house is. Plus if you have cold air return in the basement for the furnace your already sharing that mini splits heat to the entire house and in the summer months you wont even need to run the mini split. I know it sounds counter intuitive but so doesnt robbing your living space for heat to heat hot water lol. The right mini split will still keep you at a positive savings on the bill if you have a standard old style non (invertor/multi speed compressor) furnace. Another option is out there and that is looking into the new whole house furnaces with this tech in them they have ones out now you just pull your air handler and plop theirs in retaining your AUX heat components.
I realize this is an older video but I just spotted it while doing my own research. Just few comments. You said you did other energy upgrades as well so how do you know the percentage savings is due to the water heater? I really wonder if fluctuating your water temperature from 120 to 132 is saving much if anything. How long does it take to increase water temp from 120 to 132 starting at 7am? Pretty slowly I would think, but maybe not? Heat pumps actually work better when using consistent temps. We have a York home heat pump for heating and cooling our house and I have monitored it very carefully, It actually seems to run less (and thus use less electricity) when I set a consistent temperature and leave it there rather than turning it down when we are away during the day. Have you considered venting the cold air to the outside in the winter and keeping it in the house in the summer? I think Rheem makes a kit to do that. Of course you have to have it set up in a location that is conducive to doing that. I do like your setup. Hot water heat pumps (actually all heat pumps) are amazing, but I think the economics of having one in the house is tricky. You have to spend money heating the air in the house (in the winter) only to have the water heater remove it to heat the water. Then you run your furnace to make up the heat lost to the water. Its great in the summer when you may reduce cooling costs which may offset the winter heating increase. My basement is actually very cool in the summer so I worry it will be too chilly to inhabit even in the summer. All the offsetting heating and cooling gets pretty complex, but I think does net a decent savings. Thanks for your video. Great food for thought.
I plan on ducting into the return air of my hvac system and also outside with a damper to switch between the two and that way during the summer get some free cooling when water heaters working and outside in colder temperatures. Problem solved.
THis is a great setup ! When exhausted to the outside you need to be careful you don’t cause negative pressure situation- which pulls cold air into the house or if you have a fireplace it could pull the smoke into the house. .... just something to consider and why I haven’t done it.
Btw - I’m going to do a video on this. Pls subscribe so you don’t miss ! Thanks for your comment !
Mike
BRILLIANT!
I just installed one in my garage to heat the floor and also I'll be venting and mine out the wall. And using the cold air for the intake.
Terrible idea, as an a.c. tech, just my opinion
We went with the 80gal model. I was looking to replace the old 50gal, we have a big bathtub in the master the old heater could only fill 2/3 of the way before running out. Then the old unit started leaking and forced my hand, it's been great and can keep up with our usage at 123 degrees F. Now the only issue is the basement is colder and I'm considering ducting solutions to vent the cold air outside in the winter and upstairs in the summer.
yeah - i had that same issue... i but mine in high demand mode in the winter to keep the cooling impact lower...
I installed one of these to replace a perfectly fine gas water heater. The energy guide on this unit says it will cost $104 per year based on 12 cents per KW, which is what I pay. Gas water heater said $263 per year assuming gas at $1.09 per therm. My gas it $1.61 per therm. so my projected cost is more like $385 per year. Seemed like a no-brainer. Actual KW used, measured by the phone app is actually trending to about $400 per year based on two weeks of usage. I live in Sacramento. It almost never freezes here, but it is coldest part of year. Performance does not equal gas unit and extremely doubtful that it will save any money. I definitely would not do it again, if I had the option. Plus, the garage is REALLY cold. In the summer, that will be nice, but not so much in the winter. It is also noisy. You can hear it running in the bedroom next to the garage, where it is located. Bottom line: if you have a gas option, stick with gas.
John, 100% agree ! If you have gas stick with it...
Hey John. If you are in Sacramento you have SMUD and they have the best prices in the state. It is all about scheduling your water heater to run during the low price part of the day and skipping the peak. I'd bet good scheduling would help because I'd also guess you have a mixing valve and got a rebate when you installed it. It took me a few months to dial in my unit just like it did for Family DIY.
The other reason to do this is that is avoids almost 12 tonnes of carbon pollution (when switching from natural gas) over a 13 year life. FYI - it takes 40 years for 1 valley oak to absorb 2.5 tonnes of carbon in Sacramento. Stick with it John.
I'm considering this for a damp, unfinished basement. Do I understand you correctly that it exhausts cool, dehumidified air?? That seems like a win-win for my needs of both hot water and dehumidification...??
You got it !!!! its a dehumidifier !
In Florida I think they use black pvc on the roof , a holding tank, and an elec. water pump to circulate.
Also if the WH is in the garage the ambient heat exchanger will be much better.
I had a natural gas On Demand water heater for 15 years. For the cost of a dehumidifier you get hot water when only using the Heat Pump. The cool air is dry air, which you could duct upstairs or outside. We love it.
Awesome !
-Mike
Thanks for the info and I appreciate to see the KW savings - very helpful. As for the cold air into the basement the easy answer is to vent it to the outside, just like one does with the dryer etc. I talked to an installer and it seems very easy and inexpensive to do. I was having the same concern since I leave in NY and the venting is the easy solution. I think this year I will be ordering an 80 gallon to replace my current 15 yr old 80-gal electric on (which surprisingly is still working well but I like the savings idea and not to have to replace it as an emergency one of these days lol). Thanks again for helping me with the decision based on savings.
Hi - thanks for watching, agree on the venting but before you do vent outside i would watch this. Just as a heads-up.
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
not sure what you have installed, but consider looking at low-flow shower heads if you are running out of hot water.
you could simply attach a flex insulated air-conditioning duct and redirect the cold air from the heat pump outside, or up into the attic, or elsewhere. When you WANT the cool air, simply remove it temporarily.
would have to run 2 one for return and 1 for supply or else air in room will get very stale
Agree it's an option ! One size doesn't fit all tho ! Thanks for watching, here's an updated video on venting.
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
My heat pump(hybrid) water heater seems like a good investment. I guess I’ll know better at the 10 yr mark. We are a two person household.In the summer it’s about 1/4 the cost to operate of my old water heater. In the winter it’s about 1/3 the cost compared to the old one. Yes it was more expensive $1079 for 45 gallon and $196 in parts to install, but I will most definitely make the money back in a couple years. I’m just floored by the difference in our electric bills. Running it at 110deg most the day (change temp schedule via Wi-Fi). It comes on to 125deg (otherwise we run out of hot water) around 3pm-7:30pm(back down to 110deg normally just as 2nd person takes their shower).We’ve gotten in the habit of trying to run dw and take showers only in this window. It’s in the garage so we run it on heat pump only in the summer as it runs efficiently in a hot humid garage. In the winter we run it on energy saver (elements and heat pump). Highly recommend especially if your state offers a rebate.
Congrats! I agree !
Very helpful, we get a $500 credit and with your reporting we’re going to pull the trigger. Thanks uou
Awesome news !
Happy new year
Mike
I live in Maine and I use an external pellet furnace to heat my house during cold months - it does a great job and it’s (currently) a lot cheaper than using my oil fired furnace. My objective is to completely shut down the oil burning furnace AND and pellet furnace during spring/summer months. Would you anticipate a substantial savings in energy costs doing this? The net cost for the Rheem heater is only $850; I’m doing the installation. Your thoughts?
Had the board go out twice and already replaced the top element. It’s 2.5 years old. The unit has a lot of issues. Rheem is okay at sending parts out, but you’ll be without hot water for a week. You may want to get a board and have it on hand (not hard to replace). The unit will heat with only one element so that wasn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t expect these units to last longer then 10 years.
Tom - I've heard of this happening, but lucky I haven't had that issue. it's been an adventure tho, ill tell you that! Lol
Thanks
Mike
I had the board replaced, the water sensor on the bottom replaced and the screen unit replaced. Still get error codes on mine.
@@davidmassey3607 This is my concern. Any cost savings could quickly disappear depending on Rheem's warranty support and labor costs, not to mention major inconvenience. I was all set to purchase a Rheem Marathon WH, but reading about so many water leaks within the sealed tank and Rheem's less than stellar warranty support.
Matt on the channel Build just did a similar comparison on hybrid vs your standard water heater. Comparing the cost savings and if it is worth the cost. His channel Build is the "go to channel" for me and I believe his channel does a great job. Although he and his channel has more experience and access to information you don't have and a team to help him you information and presentation was in my opinion far better for what I was looking for. Am considering installing a new water heater and so glad you put this video up. It was just what I was looking for presented in and outstanding format that I could clearly follow. So thanks for taking the time in making this video.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a nice comment ! I look up to Matt Risinger , so the comparison is flattering, it really is. I'm trying to help people and i hope i helped you ! Have a great day because you made my day a little better.
Thanks again,
Mike
I'm not sure what you have going on in the basement but maybe add a refrigerator or an Ice maker next to the water heater. They pump out some heat!
this is not a bad idea !
Hey that's a great idea!
I installed the same 50 gal unit in my garage 3 years ago and it has already paid for itself, and will pay for 2 more before the 10 year warranty expires! One problem I see with your cost savings math is that you took 30% of your entire electric bill to calculate the water heater savings. As you said, your bill depends on several variables and you've also made other cost saving improvements that affected your bill. I think it would most accurate to multiply your total kWh usage from the water heater by the price/kWh.
Since my garage will drop into the 40's in the winter, I cut a hole in the wall behind it to vent the intake to pull from my laundry room for even more efficiency. This has been my best investment after my solar system install earlier in 2019.
I’m glad it worked out for you ! I feel bad for the people that comment they got one and it’s been terrible. That’s sad!
You violated the fire code by cutting a hole in your garage wall, if your car catches fire you just enabled the speed at which the fire will spread to the interior of your house.
There is a $300 federal tax credit for HPWH and there should be a local utility rebate that will speed up your payback. I got a total of $600 in rebates. I installed mine in June 2019 from nat gas. I have solar so I pay zero for electric and am saving about $25 in gas per month.
Any thought to duct the outlet air outside?
Where are you located and how did it do last winter? Is the heater in a conditioned or unconditioned place?
I did exactly what you did by switching from Nat gas to this model due to excess solar production.
My old heater was power vented and expelled a lot of air out of the house while heating. Even though my 80 gallon Rheem cools the basement about 3 degrees during operation, I'm wondering if it will actually be warmer this winter since cold outdoor air won't be drawn into the basement to replace the air that was being expelled. Food for thought I suppose.
Do you know what the form # is for the rebate?? Thanx
I got a 350 rebate from my electric company on this, I didn't bring it up because not everyone has this option, but I think I should have. darn...
@@FamilyDIYtv In addition to the local rebates from the utility companies, there is a federal tax credit of $300 that everyone should qualify for. As of right now, it expires at the end of the year so your 2020 tax return will be the last chance to use it. You will need to fill out IRS Form 5695 with your tax return.
@@brianmonroe8715 you do man ! i'll definitely check this out at tax time. I did apply d for a federal rebate a few years back when I installed a new furnace and since then I haven't been able to claim anything on federal taxes(i maxed out), hoping this is another form. Thanks for the headsup ! pinning this one
What about the winter months? I assume the heat pump would switch to the induction elements during those times, as the air temp would be very cold, so it wouldn't be any more efficient than a regular electric water heater. Right?
Basically I just want to see a full 12 month comparison.
the water heater doesn't automatically switch, but you can via the app. In the winter months i switch mine to high demand mode, basically uses the heat pump AND heating elements to heat water. During the really cold months if I'm having a party i turn the heat pump part off and go straight heating element. this of course costs the most but my basement isn't freezing. not sure i'd do again to be honest ... it's a pain
A couple of things. 1) even if you have gas you can do this to have less impact on the environment. Even counting losses from electric generation this is better for the environment. 2) a mixing valve will help you maintain constant water temperature at the tap in the house. 3) If you have solar then you can schedule operation to coincide with when the solar is producing electricity and then your payback is almost immediate. 4) If you live in a place that charges a different price at different times of the day (and you don't have solar) you can schedule it to only heat water when electricity is cheap and avoid it operating in the high cost period of the day. 5) although it is cooling the room it is also dehumidifying your basement.
Mine consumes about 3.5 kw daily in winter, and we are 5 in home. Currently, I am taking the warm air from attic and dumping cool air back there. Plan is to use a double dumper to use the cool air in summer and dump it in winter.
If you are to accurately determine the "payback", I suggest that you take the difference between (i) the cost of a direct replacement of your existing (gas?/electric?) water heater, and (ii) the higher cost of this new hybrid unit. It is the amortization of the difference that gives you a more accurate calculation of your payback period. Why this calculation? Because you intend to have a water heater no matter what, so the question is just how much more will you spend (incremental cost) on the new, more efficient heat-pump system. Also, consider what gas is used in the system: Rheem/Ruud sent me a written note that they ProTerra Hybrid water heaters use R-134A; I assume their heat-pump only water heaters also use that gas.
NOTE 01: R-410A is being phased out because of its high Global Warming Potential (GWP). R-454B appears to be the replacement for R-410A; R32 is also coming online in the USA. Eventually, it appears that we may all have CO2 (carbon dioxide) in our compressors; CO2 (i) has zero (0.0) ODP (Ozone Depleting Potential) and (ii) is gauged as one (1.0) GWP (Global Warming Potential) over all periods of time.
NOTE 02: CO2 is the gas against which the GWPs of all other gases are calculated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), based in Switzerland. R-11 is the gas against which the ODPs of all other gases is calculated.
NOTE 03: Presently, the only company that uses CO2 in its compressors appears to be Sanden, Japan's largest maker of air-conditioning compressors that is not owned by an automobile manufacturer. Sanden's "SanCO2" water-heater system is distributed in the USA by www.Eco2SystemsLLC.com (Michigan). Sanden only produces heat-pump hot-water systems and no HVAC units...yet. The great beauty of this system is that the heat-pump compressor is separate from the storage tank; the SanCO2 compressor is usually installed outside battery limits (i.e., outside the air envelope of the residence or commercial building).
Thanks for your video
i saw another video they ducted the exhaust with a splitter. so in the summer the cold air comes in, winter, blows it out
Yep that's an option agree ! Def considered but it not as simple as just running a duct to the outside. I'll post video concerning this. Can cause a dangerous situation by just running a duct to the outside.
@@FamilyDIYtv You need a duct to bring outside air in and one to take the 'exhaust' out. Otherwise, you'll be pumping your heated/conditioned air outside.
Considering one, to replace a gas heater. Why? Because I’m trying to move away from running gas at the house. A large electric tankless is not an option for me, and those slurp energy regardless.
And in my situation it’s super easy to add a new line from the breaker box.
respect that ! Personally, if i had gas, i would stay with gas. Unless I was on solar, off grid or something like that.
0:50 I was listening with my headphones and thought it was my own kid saying he needed to go poop lol. Joys of being a dad
Hahahah! Yeah the kids love to yell and stomp around the house when we're filming. But wouldn't change it for the world ! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching !
Apples to oranges. How much did your old system cost vs the heat pump. I changed from a gas system which costs 25 a month to use vs 8.25 with the hybrid. 75% savings for me. If I had an electric water heater the savings would have been 85%. I have a solar system with excess production so my savings is actually 100%. Free hot water
Chris - thanks for comment ! When you say old vs new, you mean power consumption or the cost of the actual unit ? This new unit is saving around (averages of course) 75 buck per month.
Jealous you have solar !
Thanks for watching,
Mike
Mike, I solved your too much cold air problem. 1st off - job well done explaining. Thanks much! We are all learning. Below are many points for anybody wanting to know more so here is the deal: Sizing, rebates, install tips, what to know, some pros and cons: (Mike see comment "B ")
A) Recommend an install of a larger tank size for new installs. 50 vs 65gal. Adding 15gals. is more HW in reserve & that heat pump will heat, instead of electric backup, which only kicks in on high demand situations. Yes, you are heating larger volume, but it will save the electric heat units from kicking on. (The 65 is $400 more than the 50gal)
B) Watch this video with a Rheem factory rep. ua-cam.com/video/ukv1cMp3vFI/v-deo.html
The same unit can be connected to air ducts.(The video is 3-4yrs old, hope Rheem didn't change ducting ability!) IN WINTER You can vent the cool exhaust air directly out of the house. IN SUMMER Disconnect and temporarily take out a section of duct to keep cool dehumidifed air in basement (or garage)! Love it!
Ability to cool a space depends on size AND how frequently your unit runs! 2 people showering is not same a 4 people! Morning showers activate the unit and cool a space, but don't expect the same cooling on a hot afternoon when nobody has created significant demand! Its basics people! Stop asking "what can I expect"? How many BTUs? Doesn't matter if unit aint running much! HOWEVER, I think these do cool an average space a few degrees. Helping maintain demumidified air is awesome and in many respects feels better to us humans than a few degrees difference (plus no rusted items in storage, no musty smells= huge!)
Cutting a hole in a garage wall for ducting is easy, but not so in a basement. (You would need a portion of basement wall exposed and above grade. Maybe remove/retrofit a small basement window to route duct work OR make a duct sized hole in basement ceiling to 1st floor and 90-degree it outside, hide w/ sheetrock or put inside closet). Think about transitioning round duct to rectangular if needed. No downsizing of ducts. You need to have no resistance for the pump's fan to move enough air. Also duct run has to be a short run to outside. For longer runs add a mid-stream inline powered vent fan (few watts) which can be automatically turned on with heat pump running (a bit technical, it can be done, but don't ask me). So duct the exhaust and leave unit's intake alone.
B1) These units use electricty to heat in high demand times, or when the ambient air temp is too low to keep up. Recommend the 30amp tank over the 15amp. When electric is needed the 30-amp tank has a much faster recovery rate (look at the specs, big difference !). Also realize the $$ cost of a new electric circuit and make sure you have room in your main panel.
C) 120-122-degrees in not enough! Recommend turning up the temperature setting even higher during your daytime use hours if u are still short on demand. Remember the cheaper to run heat pump is doing the storage cheaply not the electric elements.
C1) I'm still learning about HW tanks and deadly Legionnaires Disease bacteria, but it is true water temperatures of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that water heaters be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. FOR all you super Green People who want to set your tank super low, think again. Some conditions and environments, not all, can make your tank a breeding ground. What are the chances? I have no idea, but I'm ptting the info out there for people to learn for themselves.
D) U are 100% correct putting these things in an already hot boiler room is the most efficient in winter as the air is pre-heated. Note: Units must have ample air volume per manufacturer (100 cubic feet) This is why if you put tank in a small closet you need to vent the closet significantly or add the ducts connecting outside the closet.
E) Your install is good, but buyers need to be aware that old retrofit water connections coming from above the unit need to be moved out of the way above the new unit. The heat pump will likely need repair at some point and needs more than 15" to get the cover off. Do the install correct the 1st time.
F) If diode needs replacement in years later see comment E! The diode is a bitch to get at. Most basements don't have ceiling clearance to fit a long diode out the top so it needs to come out 2 ft or so, be clamped (so it won't retract) cut in two or three, and be removed for replacement with a jointed diode (flexible one)
G) The rebates in NYC metro area are $1000 From Con Edison and $300 tax credit. Your $1300 unit at Home Depot (don't know why your paid 1600 in u analysis unless u included fittings, condensation water pump, etc)
H) For people whose tank has died the replacement cost is 1300 less cost of cheap electric tank (say $500) cause everybody needs hot water. As an upgrade to replace a working tank u have then full cost is relevant.
I) BE AWARE - These Rheem units put off about 50-decibels of noise (about same as a newer dishwasher, but much lower than a window a/c unit). Remember decibels get exponentially loader and have a scale (60db is twice the amount of sound as 50db). Also these units give off some vibration. I have read, but have NOT confirmed, that final pipe connections need to be flex, braided hose, or pex connections (and maybe PVC) to not transfer the vibration to your rigid copper lines. I believe in eathquake prone west coast code is flexible lines regardless for all tank types. Somebody let me know if these heat pump units require it?
J) Don't forget these units need to be connected to a drain for the condesation water that's collected. This is done with a $40-50 condensing pump that turns on when it senses water and pumps to a drain (upwards if needed). IF you don't need a pump, don't forget to add a cleanout point when connecting the line to the tank (if done in any rigid pipe type, pex included) The line is not under pressure so it can be left open or capped, but the condensation lines over time have a nasty habit of getting clogged with kunk and scum. A cleanout will make the job easy to snake out if you are installing rigid pipe for this.
J) Supposedly, YES, you can put a duct/hole in your ceiling and draw hot attic air downward to feed the heat pump in the hot summer months (very efficient), but I do wonder about the maximum duct length allowed that the unit can "pull" in enough air to feed itself? Also remember to avoid doing 90' degree turns in the run as they add resistence (same thing as a long clothes dryer vent, which then takes longer to dry clothes and burns out heat elements). I'm not going to be the guy that tries out this method, but I am curious how many have failed to get the results they wanted?
For people who want to put this in an attic don't! (With the exception If this is a replacement for an old unit, then maybe?) But for a new install the problems of getting it into the attic, future service access, the heavy filled weight, the noise vibration, the plumbing and electrical required, and no additional ceiling height for later service fixes (replacing diode or getting heat pump cover off) you are creating problems. The unit also has to be in a conditioned space (always above 40-degrees for the pump to even have a chance to get water hot enough for showers, otherwise it will use electricity to heat up at same cost as a pure electric tank. Also pipes freeze in cold climates in unconditioned attics. Plus you need to clean the air filter screen on these things monthly at a minimum (top unit access too).
I have seen to many "Green People" wanting to put it in a hot attic to cool thier house (heat rises) but they don't have a clue what conditioned means! For those people educate yourself! AND don't put pipes and a device with 50 gallons of water subject to catastrophic failure above your entire living space! Can you say MASSIVE water Damage!
K) I remain concerned about the complexity of these units (too many points of failure), the heat pump, circuit panels, led screen are all 1 more thing that can break. Reliability is priceless! A happy family and wife not bitching about cold showers is priceless too!. A 10 year warranty is not awesome (compared to lifetime warranties offered on indirect HW tanks for the same price if you can do indirect). These units only appear to have about a 10 yr history for broader adopted residential use. That really isn't that long for us pigeons to know rates of failure that occured less than the warranty period..
In 10 years I doubt the rebates currently offered will be available so replacement cost might be full price when the time comes. Early adopters who like to brag about "how many cents per KW hour" should always look at long term operatiing costs! The chance for just 1 additional repair during lifespace will eat most $$$ savings! Not denying these are good for the environment and reducing carbon, but there are other things to factor in your decision.
Thankyou for your comment a lot of great information here !!! Thanks so much
F) you mean anode?
I have the 80 gallon version and use 4500 gallons a month (not all Hot water) and it cost me .45 cents a day to operate. I also vented exhaust air from heat pump into a y fitting that i can vent outside in the winter time or into the return air of my AHU system for summer and get free cooling from water tank while heating water. Love mine.
Robert, Thanks for sharing this was my plan but I decided against it, but I'm glad it working for you. I made an updated video on venting if your interested ! Thanks again for watching and thanks for your comment and ideas !!!
ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Thanks
Mike
To address the problem of heat pump mode cooling your basement too much in the winter, instead of running it in electric/resistive heat mode, maybe it would be worthwhile to instead spend a small amount to duct the cold output air to the outside. Then during the warm months, disconnect or divert that cold output back into the basement (or other parts of the house the could use it). The ducting is a one time modest expense (especially if you don't buy the ridiculously overpriced rheem outlet duct adapter) that provides the valuable options needed to continue to achieve maximum savings by using heat pump mode.
Hello - I appreciate the idea.
I did a video on this because this was a very common comment, and makes sense, but it's not a one size fits all solution. I appreciate the comment
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Mike
Where does the make up air come from? Outside?
I bought the same exact unit and got $800 instant rebate from Eversource at Home Depot in Connecticut. Plus, $400 federal tax credit when you file taxes. List price was $1400 in March of 2020 when I bought it. And I am saving on my monthly electric bill. Before I had an 80 gallon electric tank heater that ate up the electricity.
Great deal man !
Banger info my guy
Thanks ! Appreciate the comment !
Happy new year
Mike
Florida garage install, 50 gallon hybrid water heater...Plenty of hot water and nice dehumidifying and cooling for the garage which in turn kept that heat out of the house. Cold time of the year I put it in hybrid mode to help it keep up in a cold garage.
Getting ready to replace it after the compressor crapped out after 10 years. Sadly going to have to pay full price on this one, no rebate this time around from the power company.
sorry to hear about it crapping out !
Hey I did some research on rebates and I found that my utility company is offering rebates and you can claim this on your federal tax return as well, yay
I'm only here because I was in need of a new water heater. When I saw the $1600 price on one these I had to try and understand why! I've personally crunched the numbers and there is just no way this makes any financial sense whatsoever! Good for you at finding a way to make you think your saving money somehow.
make sure you check for local rebates, like from your electric supplier. i forgot to mention this in the video.
@@FamilyDIYtv well I went with a tankless gas water heater. It's amazing! Never run out of hot water and it's cheaper than electric.
I wish they would make this unit with a plastic tank... then it would last longer than 9 years
that's my gripe with rheem
rheem steel tanks fail early. not fully glass lined.
First, I want you to know I really appreciated your video and found it very helpful. I am considering installing a similar heat pump HW heater in my house in Maine where I will need to address the same issues.
Your energy savings estimates and payback time calculations are in error, however. The electric data you provide early in this video appear to be your total monthly household electric figures. No doubt there are many factors that contribute to your lower electric use in 2020 as compared with 2019. According to your figures your monthly electric savings for 2020 were 492 kWh, which multiplied by 12 is an annual reduction of 5,901 kWh. A 50 gallon electric hot water heater is estimated to use 3,500 kWh annually. (This is a DOE estimate for a 4-person family.) Thus your estimated savings, which you attribute to your new hot water heater, is nearly double the estimated annual use that your electric HW heater would have had in 2019. This is simply not possible.
Later, you show the monthly electric use for your new hybrid hot water heater. The average monthly use you report for Mar - Aug is 120 kWh. At best a heat pump uses about 1/3 the electricity used for pure electric heat. So let us assume that your new HP uses 1440 kWh annually and, for the sake of argument, saves twice this amount or 2880 kWh annually. Based on your numbers the dollar value of this savings is about $18 per month, a lot less than the $75 per month you estimated. The simple payback time then is then $1600/$216 = 7.5 years.
But the payback is actually longer for two reasons. First, the 3-to-1 heating COP for this heat pump is optimistic. Second, you must account for the additional heat that you must supply to your basement in the winter.
Bottom line, these hybrid heat pump hot water heater saves energy, but not nearly as much as you suggest.
Happy to discuss this further. thepragmaticsteward.com
You could duct it in to your cold air return on your furnace in the winter
This is not a bad idea. I’ll thing about this
I believe Rheem says specifically NOT to do this in the installation manual.
Need to just vent outside.
Have you thought about exhausting the cold air outside so your basement is not so cold they actually build a cap that goes on it. We live in Canada and blowing cold air into your basement in the winter time is a really bad idea, so have you thought about exhausting, the hot water heater exhaust outside?
This is PERFECT for Florida. Having a cool garage. Its like they are meant for each other.
Good video. I plan on replacing my 2 natural gas units with 2 Rheem Hybrid Water heaters. I live in San Diego area. We have some of the highest utility rates in the country so I have a ton of solar and my garage is a furnace in the summer. I don't know what I'm looking forward to more. Saving the $100 on heating hot water or cooling down the garage.
Isnt your furnace really heating hot water now in the winter. Sucking the heat out of your house. Would affect the savings. Also isnt the unit supposed to be 6 inchs away from any wall.
Technically yes ! As for, distance from wall - actually has to be within 1 inch of wall but follow local code :)
Thanks for your reviews of this water heater. In a previous video you show water sensors around your sump pump but I can't find a video where you show us how that works and where to find these. Can you please share that info? Also, regarding the cool air . . . can you install a vent line on the cold air exit to the outside? I know that's a pain (may have to cut a hole in the stem wall) but might be less expensive all around?
They’re are on my Amazon store. If you see them they are super self explanatory, maybe I should make a video explaining them better.
Unless I’m confused the Rheem I looked at had 2 heating elements same as any other water heater. It uses the heat pump unless you demand more then the regular heating elements come on. If you didn’t know it was going to AC your basement that’s on you. You could duct it outside.
huh ?
Got mine installed professionally. AO smith 67 gallon. My plumber set it to 140f and installed a mixing valve. You should set the temps higher and install a mixing valve if you don't have one. I have 3 people in my home currently. No issues with running out of hot water whatsoever. My basement also gets very hot and humid over the summer. It helped substantially with the humidity and heat in the basement. Also keep in mind the utility company gives a rebate for a heat pump water heater. It's a no brainer getting one of these installed if its in a basement or garage imo.
I just purchased one I am waiting for it to arrive. I have found almost $750 in rebates for this unit. Rheem says there are $1050 in rebates for this unit. The rebates I found went into effect in Oct 2020. It sounds like you purchased it before that time. I am in New Jersey not far from you. I have a large basement which I do not need to heat. The reduced temperature will not effect me. I do need the dehumidifier effect for the spring, summer, and fall. I did find if you need a hot water heater in a hurry, it is not the unit to get it is 3 weeks to order from Home Depot. I am switching from gas. There are just two seniors living in my house. The hot water from the heat pump will do most of our hot water needs.
Gene! That's great news, good luck on your new purchase and thanks for watching ! A shinny new water heater is not the funnest thing to buy but if you have to buy one it fun to know it's super efficient and can be controlled via app !
Thanks for watching - Mike
I'm looking into installing this in an unfinished basement. Trying to get away from oil powered boiler. I also live about an hour away from Philly.
Good luck ! since it's unfinished you probably won't care that it will chill it down. if i had to do again, I'm not sure i would have at this point. Primarily because of the cooling aspect of it... it's annoying. at this point i don't care about the savings...
Do you use air conditioning? To compare months across years you need to account for coming degree days. One year might be warmer than the other.
Great job here’s a comment for the metrics and AI.
I live in So Cal and I have a gas unit in a upstairs closet vented to roof and open into attic so I think this option would be perfect, pay for itself in 18~months.
Is it noisey? Like in a hallway next to bedroom doors?
Also is it 120? or does in need 3 phase? 240v?
Seems like a win-win-win in summer and southern states and a win-lose in winter.?!??
thanks ! i have a video on the sound. check the channel… actually i think it’s pinned in the comments as the first comment.
Good for watching this video, and thank you for that. I almost go with this hybrid Heatpump system, but now it changed my mind because of that cold air it will effect my basement temperature.
I made decisions now to go with electric only and that is still a RHEEM MODEL: PROE50 T2 RH92 CL this one will use electric heat only and full amp load is about 18 amps. Please check it out guys.
Yeah it a tough call. I kinda wish I went that route.
Just vent it outside with a selector to vent inside in summer if you basement is hot. I was going to say install a temperature mixing value (TMV) for safety reasons (compulsory) in a lot of countries to bring you hot water temperature down to the safe use range (50-60C) but you are only running it at 132F (55 Degrees C), which appears too low to even consider a mixing valve and probably means limited backup high demand storage.Don’t have too many stay over guests! NSW in Oz
I've been looking for a new hot water system as my cylinder life is running out (25yr old system currently) and I would like more shower pressure along with it. Idk if the numbers stack up here in New Zealand. I use about 3000-4000kwh a year or 11kwh a day. I'm frugal with my power usage as its so expensive here. It would also cost me over $6000 to get something similar installed. I just don't see the savings. Hmmm
So DIYer here,Not a plumber, located south Florida, installed unit Rheem 50 gallon, in Garage. Temps & humidity in garage ,in summertime are unbelievable , 89 temp , 70 or 80% humidity. in "wintertime" here south fl , on some days it can mildly cool off garage, but not in summertim, maybe 80 gallon unit , anyway installed maybe 5 or 6 years ago when first became available, think it cut $25 to $ 30 monthly off my bill, only 2 people mostly in here. When visitors come( thats a thing in Florida) i need to change to High demand mode, both elements and compressor run, but zero issues supply hot water. Th main control board blew out after first 2 years, we have insane amount of lightening here for 7 or 8 months, so covered under Warranty took 2 weeks to send me board, in meantime i rigged the element , by direct wiring to 240 and energized about 10 minutes , water was hot, pita , but did the job. Later installed whole house surge unit in Panel, Breaker. I noticed in many Videos that people have not installed the required ?? Hot Water Expansion Tank, i think is code required most everyplace, cost like $50.00, Not a licensed plumber, anyway its been great addition, i read the WIFI app not too good.
Frank - that's awesome ! rigging the element is impressive, not sure i'd know how to do that, but sometimes when your forced to figure something out - you do ! I always live by the words of an old professor - "someone somewhere figured it out, why not you!". The expansion tank is required in my house because i have a check valve on my incoming water supply, if a house doesn't have it, then there's no need. I need to install a whole house surge - which one did you use ? was it hard to install ?
Thanks
Mike
How critical is the app for use? I just don't see Rheem supporting the app on IOS 25, for example, 12-15 years from now? There is nothing software developers hate more than supporting old hardware. So most likely you will lose app functionality in realistically 6-7 years. I guess you could keep an unsupported older device to just use the Rheem app, but you lose the convenience of having all your apps on your one main device. Great and informative video.
If you want to use any of the scheduling function, you need the app. If your just gonna set it on energy saver mode and let it go then the app won't to useful.
So the unit will work fine without the app.
Thanks for the comment !
Mike
if you don't want the heat pump to cool up your basement you can always vent out the cool air . thats what I did on my 80 gallons hybrid . thanks for your videos very well done.. im going to put my water temperature on schedule now thanks to your video. very nice of you ..
To be clear, in cool winter climates you would only want to vent it to an inside location that might have excessive heat. If you vent it outside then an equal amount of cold outside air will be drawn into the house. And my guess is that for most of the time in the winter the outside air is colder than the air coming from the water heater outlet.
you may want to try ducting the exhaust outside with a valve so u can let it vent outside in the winter and then flip it back inside when the weather is warmer.
Mine is vented into my cold room which is sealed, works great as an AC unit to keep my summer veggies cold for storage
That's a great idea!
Great video. I am from NEPA and just had a rheem plat perf installed 2 days ago. In 2 days after 9 showers it has used 37.86 kWh using energy saver mode. I am still trying to figure out how to best use this hybrid heater to reduce kWh. As of now, I am not impressed with this water heater. Tomorrow, I will use heat pump mode. Kind of disgusted
it def takes some tweaking to get the best combo of savings and performance. i have winter settings and summer setting in my case.
@@FamilyDIYtv thank you.
Thanks for this information. Facing the need to replace a passive solar water heating panel for the third time in 15 years, at the cost of $3K - I had the solar system removed and am now researching what to replace it with. I live in Florida, the water heater is in the garage and with the benefit of cold air being pumped into the hot garage space, this sounds like the perfect solution.
Yes it does ! I hope it works out for ya !
Thanks for watching
Mike
Excellent video, Question: Is there any way to hook up a sort of exhaust hose to direct the cold air outside? Do this for the Winter and remove it in the Summer.
Made videos on all this, links in description but here they are
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > ua-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/v-deo.html
Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > ua-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/v-deo.html
Video on the Eco Net App > ua-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/v-deo.html
Video on how loud is the unit > ua-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/v-deo.html
Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > ua-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/v-deo.html
@@FamilyDIYtv wow, thank you very much!
Mike, great video. I just bought a Rheem 80 gallon hybrid for my condo in coastal Alabama. The utility room I am putting it in is large enough, but I am wondering the feasibility of directing the heat pump exhaust cool air directly into the large diameter AC vent approximately 6' away which would put cool air into the entire condo (4500 sq ft) and draw air into the intake from the utility room and two doors which have a 1 1/2" gap on the bottom (warmer air). I figure this would both make my water heater more efficient by drawing warmer air and helping to cool my nearby areas via the ac ductwork. In the mild winter (when water usage is less anyways as summer here are the busy months), I could switch to electric mode (heat pump off) so that it does not shoot cool air into my condo or just vent it into the utility room and keep those door closed so that it doesn't cool the condo. Does this make sense? The AC ductwork has an area exactly the same size as a 8" diameter exhaust hose so the only pressure problem I see could be the hybrid heater trying to exhaust cool air while the ac unit is blowing. I could solve that with pressure venting. I can't find any yeahs or neys on venting directly into the ac ductwork. I am also not worried about condensation as the ac units serve as dehumidifiers kicking out dehumidified air. Thoughts? I would really like your input. Once again, enjoyed your video. If this unit isn't to noisy, I'll install a second one in a closet and just put venting through the closet door since that room is very small. Thanks again.
Sounds like a great idea IMO. And like you said in summer put in electric mode. Makes sense !
I just bought a house in Augusta ME . The home is super energy efficient. It was built in 2021. It has 3 bathrooms with showers. Half the basement is finished. The unfinished part is about 800 sqft where the hybrid heat pump hot water heater is. It is insane cold. I’m going to finish out that half of the basement and rip that BS out of there. I’m replacing it with a tankless propane water heater. Sometimes comfort is worth more than a few extra bucks. I’m from Texas and down there it would be nice to have an Air Conditioner in my garage but it no freaking good for a New England basement
I did what they do in Europe and Philippines, I installed a $150 propane on demand heater in each of 3 bathrooms and the kitchen; very cheap to operate, and if one fails, it's just another $150 to replace it
NICE ! i like it
If you locate this hot water in a living area you will have to heat the air the water heater uses during the cold weather months. This will directly reduce your energy savings in the process. If you locate it in an unconditioned area, like an unheated garage, the unit will not work during the cold months (it will switch back to resistance heating). On top of that it is a heat pump and will need the maintenance associated with heat pumps. I doubt that you will save anything over the long haul.
Thumbs up for sharing the data. I love that you used kWh data so I can do my own calculation. Very helpful. Thank you.
Yes - was hoping that would help!
Efficency Maine website has
Energy efficiency Maine has a good website that includes calculators The one for Hot Water Heat Pumps let’s you set variables for source water temp, water temp target, gallons per day cost per kWh, ambient temp target . You can Leo see how it comparison with different fuel type systems
From other comments I think some are using kWh cost but be sure to use total kWh delivery charge with all fees etc. for your true cost.
From a cost savings, and energy efficiency perspective I would strongly recommend if possible you own a Solar Electric System and you then lock in you electric cost for Heating / AC with Heat Pump, Domestic Hot Water, Residential Electric needs etc. Take advantage of Federal, State nd Utility Rebates. Swap out your utility bills to pay off your solar system which should happen in 5 to 7 years. The Solar is Free forever and the Rooftop Solar is very durable capital equipment with no moving parts usually warranted for 25 years. Pay yourself first!
Finally the video was great but the App for the heat pump gives you total control for savings potential, efficiency and comfort if you look at the data and think about when you heat the water as well as when you don’t. Reheating water when you are asleep or not usually home etc. is a waste of your money.
I just heard about the hybrids and came across your video in my research! I really liked that you explained where you were 6 months ago, what you learned and all your savings research! thank you for helping me make my decision. Too bad you don't live here in FL so you could install it for me!
Lol ! I wish I lived in Florida - For multiple reasons - ha.
Thanks for the nice comment and good luck,
Mike
In a northern climate venting to the attic could also work for some. A cool dry attic would help the roof last longer. In the winter most of them are already cool.
sounds great !!!
Thanks for your video. I'm in the South with electric WH in the garage. My current standard 50 gallon unit (11 years old) is leaking and needs replacement. I'm seriously considering purchasing a Hybrid Heat Pump WH. I'm excited about the potential cost savings paying for the unit in 2-3 years. My biggest concern is reliability of the unit. Not only do we have to worry about the standard components of a Water Heater (tanks usually fail every 10 years), we now have to worry about additional components that make up the heat pump unit along with special electronics. I'm reading many negative reviews of Rheem's customer service and warranty process. I'd be worried with having to replace components and whether I can do it myself or have to pay labor fees which could eat into the cost savings vs a traditional WH. I'm on the fence of purchasing a traditional Bradford White, Hybrid or Marathon WH.
MTB Biker- first of all, I love your UN name, I use to race downhill and miss it... :(
Your concerns are valid and i had the same, the one thing that eased my mind(at least a little) was that although WH using heat pump is relatively new, heat pump aren't. Heat pumps are a proven tech.
Have you decided yet ?
-Mike
@@FamilyDIYtv Thanks for the reply. My A/C is a heat pump. I'm pretty much sold on the Rheem Pro Terra 50g from Home Depot for $1500. Now I'm just trying to figure out if I can install it myself. Being side feed will require some additional plumbing (copper vs PEX) plus I'm researching adding vacuum relief valve and thermal expansion tank to the system. No downhill racing for me! I'm a newbie that started out with a budget hardtail. Then started doing some upgrading to it (1x11, brakes, fork). Just recently built up my first full suspension frame Canfield Balance (170/165mm travel). I believe the Canfield Brothers have a history in downhill racing. Enjoying my new hobby (riding and wrenching) but I take it mellow on the trails.
Are you concerned at all with bacteria growth at the lower temperatures? I set mine at a higher temperature and put a mixer on it to take it down to a temp that would not burn but would kill any bacteria. Not the most energy efficient but no odor or bacteria growth.
You can vent the exhaust of the heat pump so your basement does get cold.
The fact it cools also would be great here. The water heater is in my garage and it's in the 90's there right now.
Agree ! It can definitely be a benefit in that situation.